Transcript
Speaker: I guess, no, I think I just don't make a good first impression. i think i'm probably afraid I'm probably like a sparkler. I think I'm too much of a burn. I'm i'm i'm excessive. I'm like a... It's a big burn. I'm like cocktail.
Speaker: but I don't know. I don't know. Here's my problems. Here's my depth. I met you and thought you were cool. I was like... But you're also crazy. LAUGHTER
Speaker: This is the After Dinner Mint, a podcast of stories I tell you at dinner. Think of the mint as the stories you tell after you've been kicked out of the restaurant, holding your mint, standing in the street, telling more honest stories with your friends than you did at the table.
Speaker: It's not a sermon. It's not advice. It's not self-help. We're processing what we're learning about faith and life, honestly, in community, to encourage you to do that with your God and your community.
Speaker: everyone, welcome to today's episode of the After The Mint. It's great to be in your earbuds. I'm here today with Bec, Britt and Rachel. Can you guys say hi? Hey, hey, hey.
Speaker: I'll get you guys to introduce you yourselves. Tell us a little bit about you. Start with you, Britt. Oh, hi. Yes, I am Brittany. I'm an accredited mental health social worker working in private practice and doing a little bit of work at the uni at the moment.
Speaker: And I have three little kids. I'm married and that's probably me Awesome. All right, Bec.
Speaker: yes Awkward every single time. Hi, I'm Bec. I'm the founder of Stories I Tell You at Dinner. I trained as a clinical psych but currently not working anywhere, working in the home, playing with the magazine.
Speaker: Life is great. I have a husband and three children. Three boys. Yep. No pets. Same as last time. Cool. All right. Great to hear from you, Anne-Rache. Hello.
Speaker: I am Rachel and I am an emergency nurse. I also have three kids because that was a prerequisite for the podcast. And a husband-o-mercy, Maddie. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I'm busy. i have children and a job and a husband and ah yeah, that's, we're not getting any better at this. right Sorry.
Speaker: The people will like. general vibes. Yeah. It's just that like we're all doing stuff. That's great. well stuff we got stuff So I'm Maddie. I'm also doing stuff. i I've got kids too. I've got two kids and the I've got a dog. So that's three. That is three. Dependents, three dependents. There you go. And then married to Robbie, I have just, I'm just finishing the final unit of my master's degree at Trinity, which is amazing. And working, working at church in the communities and kids kind of programs. Now, today's episode is kind of born out of a few conversations that I had recently with people who have struggled to mingle before and after church. So this is a pretty unique crowd. Well, in the sense that we're at church in a crowd every single week, we're having to connect with people that we don't always know know well or don't always naturally get along with and sometimes it's easy to feel lonely. So before church.
Speaker: This was an episode talking about loneliness, people feeling lonely in a crowd. So you could be a young mum struggling to get a conversation in with kids hanging off you. Or perhaps perhaps you're just someone who struggles in a crowd from a social point of view or a hearing point of view. It's hard to hear in those situations.
Speaker: And even those who maybe have attended church for a long time, but the church has undergone some massive changes and suddenly there's so many new faces, you don't even know who to talk to. So this episode is just to really discuss that issue, feeling a bit lost, a bit lonely and a bit disconnected at church.
Speaker: So my first question I'm going to throw out to Beck this time. You can answer it first. woo Can you think of an example when you have felt lonely or disconnected in a crowd of people?
Speaker: Yes. i was thinking of this recently. So when... When I was pregnant with my first baby, I was studying and I was working um and I was doing both full-time because I'm a special kind of maniac. So I was doing both of those things.
Speaker: And I continued to commute. like And then we like bought a house out in the suburbs, but we continued to commute to the city church that I was going to. But then like we had a baby and he just didn't like being going to night church and he'd scream for like 30 minutes. So we went to a local church.
Speaker: And at that point, it kind of hit me that actually I didn't know anyone. didn't know anyone with children within 40 minutes of where I lived. So all the people I knew who had kids were and were lovely at the women's Bible study.
Speaker: We're all 45 minutes away. And that's impossible when you have a baby. And had a cousin who'd also had a baby, but she'd gone back to work full time. And i literally had this moment where I was like, oh, oh, I'm actually really lonely. I don't know.
Speaker: any one
Speaker: I mean, i can talk to how I dug myself out of that, but that's basically how I ended up in that particular season of loneliness. But I think that was kind of doing a couple of transitions at once. If I look back at it, like my old sister's eight now. Yeah,
Speaker: yeah it's a huge transition period. Yeah. m Yeah. What about you, Rach? Yeah. Well, it's it's an interesting question because I actually, uh, i still really struggle with this now, but I think because I'm a very extroverted person, people assume that I'm never lonely because I'm just always with people. But I think often, particularly in church, in attending things, often i think people, and I know this because people have told me this in what I think they think is a compliment, but it actually sometimes isn't, is that they'll they invite me to things because they know I'll talk to people.
Speaker: because they know like a little bit like we'll invite her because she's the entertainment a little bit. And so then I feel like I have to perform and talk to people and be the lively person. and so then it's not necessarily a genuine connection. Like I'm there and I'm talking.
Speaker: And I feel that a lot. I feel that even now, sometimes at church when you like sort of putting on the show that people like to see and people expect from you as a extroverted person,
Speaker: But often I'm not actually really connecting with people. So like lots of like kind of little shallow interactions rather than any particular deep chat or anything like that. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker: And I think specifically having attended things where I was like, I know i was invited to this because lots of people don't know each other and I'm good at talking to people. And so they're like, she'll come and she'll like smooth smooth things out a little bit and make it less awkward because people, you know, yeah, dance monkey, dance.
Speaker: fruit Yeah, I relate to the Dance Monkey vibes. Not that I think people particularly invite me places to do that, but I feel the compulsion within myself to do that. and to I will recognise all these persons not connected and try work out how to do that.
Speaker: But I actually find we have a format at our church where there's like a break where you can kind of like chat to people within the service. and I have had little kids for so long that always I was just so busy in that time, either because my kids would not allow me to have any adult conversations ah because I would interrupt them so many times that I kind of just stopped trying or I was trying to deliver them to different programs they were going to. um
Speaker: And so as that has begun to lift and I maybe didn't always need to be doing that, I realised, I actually this makes me feel lonely, this period.
Speaker: Because I don't know, I'm like looking for a role to play. Yes. To navigate that social situation. and when there's no, when it's just like open-ended, like I guess before and after church too, where it's like there's no structure to what that should take. It just should be community.
Speaker: and I probably, well I can have small talk with lots of people. I don't find that side hard, but I don't find it particularly satisfying to have loads and loads of small talk.
Speaker: And probably, i don't know, I've spoken to a few friends who've said like they kind of crave a deeper conversation. So that's what they find difficult in those settings. And it's not that I'm craving it to always go deeper, but just that I'm like,
Speaker: a bit over or don't know where to start or who to go to I don't know it's a weird sensation of almost feeling a bit like a deer in headlines like where should I go who should I talk to yeah and then sometimes look for the people that you're really familiar with and go to them but then internally you're like I probably should yes be finding the person that doesn't know anyone and or look for you know I'm not the only person that feels this way I should try and look for other people that might be in the same boat but Yeah, I agree with yeah I think church is a pretty unique setting for this because I certainly don't find those feelings translate, say, to like school pickup.
Speaker: Like I would literally talk to anyone and I wouldn't care, but I might care more in a church setting. I'm not sure why. I don't know if you guys have relate any of that. Yeah, very much. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. yeah It's like there's that you're kind of, you do have almost a mutual obligation at church, right? You are, you do want to feel welcome, but you also need to take a part in being a welcomer and actually fostering that in a community. So then, yeah, there's this, you know, you're, yeah, that navigating that empty space of social time where you go, I don't know who to talk to or everyone around me is already talking.
Speaker: people so how do I break into a conversation without it being awkward or so you tend to just I know for myself I get into this vote phase of like yeah just almost pretend I'm on a job yeah oh yeah what's up and I just like kind of like oh hey oh hey Jill we'll keep going over there like hey somewhere I am purposeful and i'm like I fit in here because I'm walking through here purposefully you
Speaker: So like for me, it was definitely these times of like transition that I found it really hard to connect. And so one of them was just simply that, yeah, I was i was probably going through a similar phase where beck with Bec, with like study and work. and And also I was just going through a lot of kind of anxiety at the time around other stuff that then I just i just had no mental energy to connect with multiple people.
Speaker: And I almost didn't know how to connect in there, even though I'm also quite extroverted, so you wouldn't have guessed. Yeah. So I would find myself busy with jobs, like where I could just get next to want someone.
Speaker: And, you know, maybe that's like not actually a bad thing where you can just do a job with someone and you can at least connect with the one person that day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, or the other the other period's definitely been the the parenting battle for me where I've had, you know, one of my kids just cling to me and really, like, not want to go anywhere without me but not want me talking to anyone without him. So, you know, just literally, like, he'll be pulling in my hand and, like,
Speaker: yelling at me for come with him and they only be happy when we're like 15 meters outside the crowd outside yeah it's somewhere else the of and so i think i found that really challenging because then i was also like i can't talk to anyone and i have no connections like oh you know bible study's been really good for that and i do have good friends like which i can connect with and who come along but definitely found that challenging in that season I was like wo yeah yeah it's hard so yeah and kind of what what do you think are some of the challenges we face in the communities and maybe our culture as well that act as a barrier to making deeper connections in these settings Rach I think just thinking about what you said about Brit about school drop-off is that
Speaker: the easy thing about school drop-off is there's no, you can just like talk about school, talk about kids, whatever. You're like, oh, you know, our kids are in the same class. It's easy. Whereas I think at church, at least for me, particularly as someone who grew up in in a Christian family with, you know, very,
Speaker: Christian very moral upbringing there is a certain level of performativeness in which you know there shouldn't be but there is of in Christian circles of well I kind of need a be have the appearance of doing the right thing or at least looking super spiritual. Like if I don't take communion, will people be watching and going, well, why don't you take communion? Are you like, what's happening? Which is often in my own head, but I think it's definitely a barrier of, and then also you have to be, you know, being vulnerable with people and with your own sin is a hard place to get to in the 15 minutes after church between tea and coffee. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and you do have to be wise about who you share with as well. You can't just be sharing everything with everyone. That's not a wise thing to do. Mm-hmm. Brett? Yeah, I think that's actually the really tricky thing in a church setting that's different from other settings we might go into is that there's this level of a sense of obligation to one another as brothers and sisters in Christ that we would that there would be this assumed depth. Like you said, you know, when you're at school, you could just talk about what's happening at school.
Speaker: But it's weird that we don't kind of translate that to church, that we could talk about what's happening at church or what's happening in our faith or what we're reading, and what other people are reading and encourage one another. But that sometimes feels quite awkward to do as well. And it does feel like there needs to be a level of intimacy in your relationship to that.
Speaker: But I'm wondering if maybe like we just should be kind of putting ourselves out there a bit more. I don't know. I think it's tricky in that short space of time, even though, yeah, you are seeing people ideally at least once a week.
Speaker: Yeah. And, I mean, something that I have been thinking about recently is that often, like, you know, people are, and I have done this in different seasons of my life, like when I'm single, like when I was single, like people commute to church. You might not go to church where you live. You might not run into those people any other time your week unless you're very intentional to go to that church or you go to a Bible study or something like that.
Speaker: And like i read something recently that talked about even just to make like a friend, not like a good friend, you need something that was like 94 interactions. Like you kind of just need reps.
Speaker: And interestingly enough, like I found when we moved to where we are now, not that I would see people from church all the time, but I would see people from church like food shopping,
Speaker: Or like, oh, hey, like you're also at Spudchard. Do you know what I mean? Like I think there's that. And then there's that kind of like age segregation in our churches sometimes if it's a bigger church, the old people with the old people, the babies with the babies.
Speaker: And also like part of me wonders if it's just bit inconvenient. You know, like it's kind of slow getting to know people. Making friends just takes longer than you ever think it's going to take. It just, you know, all of it takes work. It's good work, but it takes work.
Speaker: And I think very, very, very vulnerably, think a big part of it for me is also pride. Because you're like, do I like that or just not? Yeah. Like, do I want to bear my soul? Not, you know, not to everyone, but you're like, do I want to have a deeper conversation with this person? Are they, are they, you know, worthy of my depth? that You know, not that I think that, but you know, I don't actively go, oh no I'm better than them. But I think sometimes you go, no, I'm going to keep that to myself, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. you know That's interesting so because like ah probably feel, you know, I probably do have a sense of pride, but there's also the sense of like, like,
Speaker: You know, when you have a when you have a role, you're like, I'm not allowed to be vulnerable. at thats like I'm not allowed to look, you know, like, or it's actually like, no, that's wrong. and And we're all sinners. We are all people who struggle with sin or loneliness or, you know, in some some way or, you know, these various feelings that we feel just around trying to connect with people or, um yeah, it's like like it's actually, you know,
Speaker: it's It's still a barrier to humility in in that sense and engaging. And it I was thinking about what Beck said earlier, and I think it took me 12 months to form deep connections at the church I'm at. It took me attending for 12 months before I was like, oh, yeah, I've got solid friends here. I've got people I can talk to. And I think it kind of goes back to that. What does actually, when someone's feeling lonely at church, what are they actually craving? Is it in the moment them trying to find someone to talk to?
Speaker: Or is it actually them going, think I just need someone who I can share like more at a more of a spiritual level, like the difficulties in my faith and the difficulties that I'm going through right now. Like, yeah, like, what's the symptom?
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's that. i think, you know, ultimately we want, like what you're saying, ultimately what we want is just someone to be like, yeah, I see you. Like, yep, that's hard. And you often can't do that straight after church. Like, you know, you might do that with someone that you've met in a Bible study and gotten to know, but you probably, like, you can't get to the one person you can connect with without going through the stage of like rocking up to church, not knowing anyone, persevering through really awkward conversations for a long time. I've turned up to three churches. like,
Speaker: I'm going to be here. going to have a conversation with you. This is super awkward. Hello. Do you want to catch up? They're like, no. do you want to say to someone else, you want to catch up? They're like, no. And you have to keep persevering because you're like, you're making friends as an adult is awkward. And it ultimately worked out well.
Speaker: I mean, it worked out well for me, but I had to be, I'm not a subtle person, but it took me such a long time.
Speaker: How many people did you ask to catch up that said no to you? 100. No, I'm kidding. I played really hard to get. Pardon? I said, yeah, you asked me heaps. I played really hard to get.
Speaker: Yeah, but also fell at the time, I just had one baby and you had three under school age and I had no comprehension of that. That is true. like And I think that was it. I was like, I talked to a lot of people who were friendly but didn't have capacity to be friends right then. Yeah. So I think it's that you kind of just like, I have to go first. I have to like, eventually you'll find people that do, you know what I mean? That like are friendly, but also like have a bit of space for like, I also like, yeah. well
Speaker: Friendly with capacity, right? Yeah. Like, and that's the really tricky thing. And I think, um, Yeah, the thing that really helped me kind of feel like I had solid connections in the end was actually just like reading the Bible with a group. There's four of us reading together. And, you know, at the start, none of us disclosed, I guess, wanting deeper relationships, but probably about a year in someone was said something about finding it difficult to necessarily have deeper friendships and finding like, oh, but I always know you guys are somewhere in the room.
Speaker: And so I know I've got a deeper connection somewhere, even if the person I'm talking to now isn't, either I just don't connect with them at all, we're really not on the same page about most things, or it's just like still in those awkward stages of getting to know people. And that awkward dance of like meeting someone and thinking, oh, we could be friends.
Speaker: And then you almost have to do like this weird pursuit thing, but it's not romantic. It's a friendship pursuit, but it's kind of like, are you coming on too strong? Are you not? Like is a weird thing.
Speaker: to do as an adult adult like the isn't I just don't think it's talked about enough that there's a bit of an art form to like building a relationship with someone that you start off small and then like you look often times you look back and go oh wow I didn't know this person a year ago now I know them really well but like it does take either being intentional or like just naturally kind of building up intimacy over time and then hopefully decreasing some of the loneliness and Yeah, I can honestly say it's like reading the Bible with people.
Speaker: Like just reading the Bible with other women has been such a game changer, just being like, you see see them at least once a fortnight. Yeah. Like I think it's but getting reps in.
Speaker: Yeah. Getting to 94. Mm-hmm. I reckon it's funny, you know, I reckon and some of the people I spoke to a while ago who kind of said that this was an issue, I i remember them also saying, yeah, and like our Bible study just hasn't been meeting recently. People haven't been able to come or like, you know, it's not been rocking up or like. And so then they're missing the opportunities during the week to connect and they're coming up on and church and potentially those people that they might have otherwise connect with are away or busy, like, or or like have a role in the service somewhere. So they're also then packing up. And so then these people are kind of going, oh, my safe people I haven't been connecting with.
Speaker: um Yeah, so definitely, you know, it's one of those things as well that one of the barriers I feel sometimes for making deep connections is just generally our busyness. And also the difficulty sometimes to commit to those regular commitments, like like regular weekly catch-ups. or like I know that our group does fortnightly just because we're where a ah Bible study group that has its couples with kids. so we like women meet one week and then the blokes...
Speaker: meet another week and we do fortnightly and that just has kind of has to work for us at the moment but it means if you miss one week you don't catch up with them for like a month unless you're making an effort to catch up in another way sorry it's it is tricky but you do have to just really be committed to it and the busyness of life does come up and just quite make things feel harder yeah for another unsexy answer is just I don't know if I want a sexy answer to learn this. Sorry. I mean, there's a sexy answer. so
Speaker: But that somehow also doesn't work. I don't know. Anyway, sorry. I'm so sorry. No, the other answer that want to find I want to say unsexy again, but I can't. Go with it with it. Whatever. The other answer is actually sometimes just committing to a really small way of like service or somewhere that you have to be because getting to know people while you're doing something else, you're like, oh, we're all setting out chairs together. It's a really low whatever, like you're here, I'm here. We can chat about the weather. We can chat about like there's a lot of chairs today. i don't know. Yeah.
Speaker: serving coffee or standing on the welcome desk or whatever. ah this chair has three legs. look what but a beta Like, I just, there's something to be said for that. If just, if, if that's a hard season, you're like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm not really looking at myself. i'm kind of, you know, we're both doing this job together. and after while you might be like, no, this person's got a good sense of humor or like, yeah. Most person laughs at my jokes. Let's be friends.
Speaker: and And some people are slow burns. Like some of my best friends, I think back to when I met them, particularly if I met them when I was younger. dad And I'm like, if I met them now as an adult, I'm not sure we would get to this level of friendship, but they're some of my most treasured people.
Speaker: And because I know what they're like a bit more as an adult in the sense that they maybe be just like keep things, you know, people that keep things really surface and so you can't really get Yeah. Like they can be a bit like that. And I'm like, well, I'm glad I got underneath before you could like build up those barriers. But yeah. I like that you just gestured with head. You're like living in. Chip, chip, chip, chip, chip.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Do you know how many people have told me that they didn't like me when they first met me? So many people that are really good friends now, like, oh cool, man, which is good. Like, it's fine. It just means that i was like, I cannot trust my first impression. But now I have very good friends. They're like, hmm, I was, they were not a fan early on.
Speaker: But, hey, we're friends now. Persevere. I won't i lie, when I met my husband he just had a resting serious face. I say it's serious face, you might think of something else. But like you know he was just super like serious at all times. And I was like, this guy has no sense of humour. I've never got a good friend.
Speaker: I really thought you going to say you didn't like me as well, but that's I'm glad it was your husband. No, don't worry. It was just my husband. yeah How long, Rach? It's I married him in the end. It's fine. Yeah, it's a happy ending.
Speaker: Rach, I was going to say, are you saying you're a slow burn? I guess. No, I think I just don't make a good first impression. i think I'm probably free and probably like a sparkler. I think I'm too much of a burn. I'm i'm i'm excessive.
Speaker: I'm like a... It's a good burn....on a 12 cocktail. know. but that my bit i dus I met you and thought you were cool. I was like, you're also crazy. a So it's like, a good I don't know how much help this is to you. Well, she's in the same but she's in the same boat as me. She makes a terrible first impression.
Speaker: yeah The moral of that is now they're my friends. So it's fine. Yes. Look, uh, look ah Bec, what you were saying as well was like, you know, actually committing to something, like having a responsibility.
Speaker: I was actually talking to someone last week who was wanting to and get like get more connected at church. And like of the advice had was giving her was just, yeah, like join a serving team.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, you have something to give, you have a way to like, you know, to contribute to the community and also in a way you get served as well when you join a team, when you get to serve alongside people. Cause often like sometimes just having a a joint job, you're, you're like able to converse with people because you have a joint goal and joint project and you actually find deeper friendships or just suddenly like you've got someone to talk to when you're there in that crowd and that might even be that you're not rostered on that week but you are coming up to the welcoming team and being like oh do you need me to help like pack up some signs or yeah put away some chairs like actually engaging and in a little bit of a practical way can be a way to help or even
Speaker: Yeah, there's plenty of ways like that that you can – and the other one is just actually we get really, really – we're in a busy culture and we also get – we have – we're fed the lie by our culture that freedom is to have no commitments.
Speaker: Like we're busy already and I need no commitments outside of my my work or my, like, you know, my family. like I'm already busy. Any other commitment is just, like, going to constrain me so much.
Speaker: But actually, like, you know, in in serving in the in church, you actually have, you're given these roles that give you a freedom to connect in a way that actually you wouldn't otherwise. um And also it's like a, it's a lovely thing to serve and honour God by serving others.
Speaker: um And so, yeah, it's kind of a good way to connect, but also get involved in a way that's less awkward of like, I'm just standing here and I don't know who to talk to. What do you think about that, Bec?
Speaker: Yeah, and I reckon like just to piggyback on that, if you are in a hard season and like often what tends to happen is that you it's easy to turn inward and then be like, oh, no, like,
Speaker: you know, there's a reason no one wants to be friends with me. It's not because of this transition. It's because actually like I'm super weird and I'm just never going have friends or whatever it is that you're spiralling about. And then you're watching all the things that you do and interpreting everything that you do as evidence that you will never have friends because you're a weirdo.
Speaker: But serving is actually a really nice way to actually just get the focus off yourself in a nice way. it's that CS Lewis thing of – You know, it's not humility is not thinking less of yourself, so you're not, like, being self-critical. It's actually just thinking of yourself less.
Speaker: Oh, don't have to go down that spiral. need to talk that person over there because they're new. Yeah, and I've been thinking a lot about, like, Ephesians 4, Colossians 3 recently, even, like, in 1 Corinthians 12, all these passages Paul are talking about the body of Christ and how each of us being members of one body and even, you know, in 1 Corinthians it says, like, Now to each one, the manifestation of the spirit's given a gift for the common good. And it's like, you've got something to contribute to this community. um It's going to be feel awkward because we're messy human beings and you're a messy human being jumping into a crowd of messy human beings, all trying to be messy human beings together in a nice way.
Speaker: ah But, you know, you've actually have been, you have something to give. And the other thing is actually that you can receive from other people too. Like people ah to be like the people at church are to be received as gifts.
Speaker: And so we can be thankful for them. And that can kind of change your perspective a little bit more on like when you're engaging with people. Hey, that person might just be having a really bad day.
Speaker: let Let me just come and chat chat with them. Because just you rocking up sometimes can be an encouragement for someone, like just being there. um And sometimes, honestly, in the seasons of little kids,
Speaker: I might, you'd think I've spent the entire time in the cry room or like my child's in and out and I haven't talked to anyone. And sometimes I just think I'm just practicing growing in faithfulness. Like I'm just getting reps in. Like maybe, you know, I don't know if today's going to be a good day or I'll hear something good or I'll have an encouraging conversation I'll hear part of sermon.
Speaker: I'm just getting reps in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, go on, sorry, Beck. Sorry, Britt. Oh, sorry. i was just going to say definitely in the early years of my kids, I would say, i don't know how many sermons I didn't hear and how much worship I wasn't really a part of But someone had said to me before I had children that it's about like setting a pattern for how your family does life.
Speaker: And so you attend not for what you're getting out of the service and not to chat to anyone either. you attend because it's the pattern of your family and then you continue to grow in that pattern. And then over time you get to participate again, but there is just a time frame in which just setting up your pattern.
Speaker: And I think having that in my mind helped me be like, okay, I'm not getting anything out of this, nor am I talking to anyone. But, like, this is just what we do on a Sunday. And then it became a part of our family routine, which, and I did watch other friends kind of just not do that.
Speaker: And a lot of them, like, they just they either don't go to church or they go really sporadically or they're not connected in and you're like, well, because that pattern isn't there. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: It's got to be more than just I want my church to serve me. And it's not, you know what it's good to receive service. It is to be able to be like, okay, I'm going see some Renee to help. But sometimes, like, it is good to just be like, you know, okay, I might not be getting anything out of this, but, yeah, it's like the grander vision thing.
Speaker: of where you're going or what you're doing or you don't. I'm just establishing pattern of obedience. I don't know what God's going to do that.
Speaker: And you being there every single week is helpful for someone else who's struggling, like struggling, but seeing that you're there every week as well, like going, oh, yeah, they're setting this pattern. Like, so can I. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, I think it's like, we've almost talked a little bit about it, but how do you guys think the gospel can speak into that feeling of loneliness? So for people who are feeling lonely at church, what assurance can they provide for these people?
Speaker: I think the Bible really teaches us that we're part of a wider picture. So and we're part of a church family in our actual church, but we're part of the entire body. And so loneliness is like a really, oh, it's pretty awful feeling to feel.
Speaker: However, like our feelings are just kind of communicating to us. so if we're feeling lonely, it's telling us we just need some more connection. And so then that's kind of what we want to seek with that rather than loneliness. Like I guess the natural inclination would be to want to withdraw, but like we are actually to lean in. And in a church community, we can feel safe to lean in. And like Bec was saying, like ask one person, they're not keen, talk to the next person.
Speaker: They're not quite your style. Like there's always going to be someone that you can find in that church that you can connect with and start slow. Like we have the assurance of who we are in Christ.
Speaker: We don't need everybody to like or love us. We just kind of need to lean in and serve other people and we will find our people in time, I think. Yeah. And also like, I mean, it's that thing if ultimately,
Speaker: You're like, well, if your identity is like truly like, okay, God loves me. He knows all the worst about me. He loves me anyway. Then it's almost a little bit freeing because it's not about like how many friends that you have or how you've come across that particular day or anything like that. You're like, well, you know, that's not my worst, which means it's a bit freeing. It's kind of freeing.
Speaker: And you can trust that like he's designed you for community. Like even your very like mirror neurons, all of that, like your body is designed to be in community with other people, let alone all the parts of the New Testament.
Speaker: It is not good for man to be alone.
Speaker: Yeah. And like if it's something... It's like like struggling with is that we can actually ask God to help us in this this part as well. Like, you know, just being asking God to actually help you make deeper connections at church, help you know what to do in those awkward times, help you to actually like encourage someone who's also feeling like that.
Speaker: And even like, you know, I had a prayer answered when I was in high school and first became a Christian. i just like didn't have any close friends that were Christian, although I was friends with Christians. But I like i like realized I just needed a best friend who would who would help me be a Christian because I didn't know how to be a Christian. And so i like, and that friend is still in my life today.
Speaker: and just, yeah, it's just such a, like we can we can ask God for help in this area. even though, you know, it feels like we're supposed to just naturally get it, like, you know, but it can be awkward and a bit frustrating.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing i also look for, like, think about when we're feeling lonely. It's also we're still in a broken world. We're still, you know, we are united to Christ, but we can't yet see him.
Speaker: And we're actually awaiting the day when we do get to see God face to face. um We do get to be in the new creation and have that perfect connection with God and with our church family. And so that like the best is yet to come.
Speaker: The loneliness doesn't actually last. And so I think having that like future hope that, Yeah, it's awkward now because we live in an age where, you know, the good bit's coming, but it's not here yet.
Speaker: with Like, you know, the the broken world's still hanging around. So we actually, you know, by fixing our eyes on the new creation and the community that we have there, praising God forever, in an amazing place, we there is no loneliness, there's no there's no death, there's no crying, there's no disease. Like it's... it's actually that's what's the best to come.
Speaker: I think that's a great hope that we have. i agree.
Speaker: So how can we in our church communities kind of be mindful of the struggles of the people around us? How can we rock up to church on a Sunday thinking about these people?
Speaker: so I was talking to a friend recently who, you know, has a lot to do at church, ah but she's quite shy. she's, What I said to her, I was like, look, mostly like a person who's new or a person who's like having a bit of a rough time, mostly just is happy that someone is talking to them.
Speaker: They are not going to compare notes with the three other people you talked to after that. Like they're not going to know that you're asking the same questions. Like. to each person like you might have a structure and be like, hey, and like whatever it is, those kind of three, four questions. And then have you met Ted?
Speaker: Like use them to somebody else. have a conversation, did you know you guys have this in common and then you can leave, right? Like if you're mostly just, if you're new or you're having a hard time, you're just happy that someone's talked to you and someone started the awkward thing. Like, you know, if you're going to make it in a community, you kind of, there is a level of like it's inconvenient, it takes time.
Speaker: But, you know, the the person on the other end of that is probably, You know i mean? Like in different seasons, like might be having a harder time than you. Or it's just, you know, you're just really happy that someone's talked to you.
Speaker: Absolutely. It would be a sad day for someone to come and visit church and then just not get spoken to by anyone and leave. feelings just it Yeah, its it does happen, which is actually just yeah super sad. So it doesn't need to be perfect. It can just be like ask three questions, ask three open-ended questions. Sorry, some other like piece of advice is I got from my boss in child protection.
Speaker: So we used to go and do unannounced home visits, which are a special kind of hell. And he was really good with people, right? And you'd have to go talk about like some things that people wouldn didn't want to talk about, but he always got people talking. And I was like, how do you do that?
Speaker: And he said, look, I always start with stuff that they can already answer, stuff that they can tell you and be confident about, stuff that's going well, like get them feeling less nervous before you get to other stuff.
Speaker: So sometimes it's just, you know, trying to find something that they might be interested in talking about, you know, what do you do for fun? Or...
Speaker: what makes up your week? Start from there. Yeah. Everyone knows my question because of the podcast. So I'm like, great. Oh, very true. You don't even have to ask it anymore. They just walk up to you. This is what I do for fun in a not a personal like,
Speaker: facilitation of deeper things but it's a church thing so at our church every four weeks so we have a we have a rotating because our our church is a satellite church from the mothership i think it's called a church plant but i prefer the mother i prefer that oh I like it. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker: I came up with it myself. and Anyway, so they have the three weeks where we have a sermon. And then on the fourth week we have, it's called the Mike service. So it's a missions update, an interview and communion. And,
Speaker: those Those weeks, it's one of those things where you kind of go, oh, this feels like a bit of a filler. But every single time, those weeks are the best week because it's usually someone giving a testimony. And the last two times that we've had it has been like a mature Christian, like a man. Both of them have been not old men, but sort of middle-aged men who've lived a lot of life. And they've given very like honest, transparent testimonies. And it immediately has just,
Speaker: it transforms the room. And then conversations after church are immediately deeper because people are like, You know, like it's just that sometimes i like humans are great, but the, yeah, like seeing the humanity of someone else and their story and their vulnerability in front of the body and then everyone is immediately on a deeper level as soon as church is done because everyone everyone's like, whoa, that was amazing.
Speaker: And that is actually really great. It works so, i don't not that it's like a trick, but it just, it does, it like cuts away so much of that small talky stuff because people are just really moved.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's a good strategy. It reminds you that church is not a production. Like it's yeah not a consumer thing. You're not coming there to just like, you know, receive your goods and go. It's actually like, yeah, having that sense of someone sharing is a deep connection that we're actually our community.
Speaker: We're community of people who are struggling to, you know, to appropriate our faith, faithfully, but are being encouraged every day, you know,
Speaker: ah by walking the spirit, but also by one another. So it's, it's yeah, it's it's, I think that that's really helpful because we've been thinking about, you know, we went through wanting to put testimonies in or just even like, hey, here's a little answer prayer spot for this person and like, you know, like putting those things in. We call it testimony spot.
Speaker: But, yeah, we've been trying to think about that as well. And I agree, it really helps. And they do, like we do, it's it's set questions. So they don't just like give you the floor. I mean, they do. but It's like, you know, what was your life like before you met Jesus? how, when did you, like, how did you become a Christian and what, what has happened since? And like the one we had on Sunday was a man I've known a really long time and he had been a Christian his whole life. And he realized when he was 36 that he wasn't like, and it was just an amazing thing of like, I didn't know that about him. Like, you know, that was 20 years ago, but, and then it just like, so yeah, it just stripped the veneer off everyone
Speaker: Yeah, it was just, it was, yeah, like the spirit moved essentially. You know what i mean? Like it just, and everyone, like you could feel it, everyone around it was like, oh, this is, this is what it's about. This is it. Like we are, you know, he is the vine, we are the branches, we're being branches together.
Speaker: It just, yeah, it was, yeah, cool. I just wanted to say as like a total plug, but that's actually what I wanted for stories was literally that to interview people and just hear, I didn't do everything right.
Speaker: but God has been really kind. And I think sometimes just hearing that, like not here are five ways to stop the boats, here are five ways to do this, to do that, become more productive, but just, you know, other people, like God has been faithful to them, he can be faithful to me and being able to see that um I just think is really encouraging. That's awesome. Yeah, Britt, and then we're going to wrap up.
Speaker: Yeah, I would agree and I think um often vulnerability begets vulnerability. Like when somebody is brave enough to just be a tiny bit vulnerable. i i saw this in my Bible study last year.
Speaker: It was mostly male besides a couple of females and one week one of the females just kind of in the prayer section was really honest about what was was going on for her and like one by one every man around the table became very honest about in response and like it was just like such a beautiful like you're saying Rachel it's like oh yeah we're all in this together like we're all part of this bigger picture are and people were a began to share really openly about where they were at and in a very like appropriate measured way it's not like people were kind of like losing it or anything but it just was like a really beautiful experience to be part of to be like it just took one person being brave enough and
Speaker: to say like actually this is what I want prayer for yeah and it gave everybody permission to just really seek what they were there for and ask for it and everybody was able to kind of be in that with each other it's just yeah it was a great experience Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker: And that's really encouraging to finish on as well as we wrap up today's episode. It's been really great to talk about um the ways in which we can be more aware of the people in our community, the ways in which we can think about how we want to connect better and also be encouraged to um come alongside one another as the body of Christ to connect, to serve, to actually commit to one another, um not in a way that ah kind of seeks our own needs but um the needs of others. And if you are feeling lonely at your church, um yeah, we just want to, we feel for you because we all have had our experiences too. But we do just want to encourage, persevere. The best is yet to come. Thanks for listening.
Speaker: Music
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Speaker: If you'd like that, the link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, guys. Music.
