Transcript
Speaker: I remember having a friend, went someone i was talking to you once, and they were like, aren't you a therapist? And I was like, yeah, and I'm not at work today. Yeah, that's my day off. yeah I don't care today.
Speaker: This is the After Dinner Mint, a podcast of stories I tell you at dinner. Think of the mint as the stories you tell after you've been kicked out of the restaurant, holding your mint, standing in the street, telling more honest stories with your friends than you did at the table.
Speaker: It's not a sermon. It's not advice. It's not self-help. We're processing what we're learning about faith and life, honestly, in community, to encourage you to do that with your God and your community.
Speaker: Hi guys, it's Rachel. Welcome back to the season two of the After Dinner Mint podcast. I'm here today with Bec and Kaya Thompson. If you guys could introduce yourselves, Kaya, you go first. Hi everyone, my name is Kaya. I'm one of the writers for Stories I'd Tell You at Dinner. I work as a social worker and I also write young adult books in my spare time.
Speaker: Hi, I'm Bec. I'm the founder of Stories I Tell You at Dinner, an online magazine that brings Christian women in WA together through Honour Stories. I'm a wife to Zach. I'm a mum of three little boys and have trained as a clean psych, you know, working child protection, trauma, prisons, hospitals, private practice, all the fun places. And you've met me before, but I'm Rachel. I'm a wife and a mum and a emergency room nurse. So today's topic we got from our end of year survey and it's a doozy.
Speaker: How to retain your faith while being a first responder, i.e. frontline mental health, child protection, so on and so forth. When the workplace culture demands dissonance from Christian values, i.e. black humour, seeing Christians as perpetrators of abuse, etc.
Speaker: I personally and others I know in frontline work struggle to reconcile their core values and faith with what they see in the world. Beck interviewed Kaya on season one of the podcast, which we will link in the show notes, where they touched on some of the theological difficulties in working in social work child protection spaces. So we thought it would be fun to bring her back. Fun is probably a strong word, but, you know fun. To bring her back and cover it in four.
Speaker: In war tips. So in this chat, we'll deep dive into some of the temptations we face working in frontline mental health and the things the cultures demand of us, as well as what has helped us reconcile our faith with what we see in the world.
Speaker: Big one. So question one, to help the audience understand where we are coming from, where are some of the places you've worked and what have been some of the temptations you've faced in frontline mental health?
Speaker: Is there anything that makes you look back and cringe at what you've said or did? umm I'm going to throw it to Kaya first because you're the guest. Okay, so i have worked as a social worker for what, since 2010, so nearly 16 years. yeah um I've worked in community and inpatient mental health, child protection, although I didn't last very long in that role, in disabilities, and now in ah in an acute hospital setting.
Speaker: So I started out, so I did my last prac at uni and doing mental health and I moved straight into community mental health. So i was very young, very green, yeah had some big ideals and plenty of cringe moments.
Speaker: Some of the biggest temptations, I'd have to say working in mental health and health. Biggest one for me is probably detachment, like wanting to...
Speaker: Separate myself from patients. Yeah. Yeah, which really goes against what I do as a social worker. you know Part of the role is...
Speaker: Yeah, putting yourself in people's shoes, trying to have an understanding of their their situation and helping to problem solve things within that and to provide that emotional support as well. So I think when you're in a very high stress environment, it's it's very to like tempting to detach. And whether it's from, you know, you're bordering on burnout, whether it's protecting yourself from burnout, um I know that's something that I have to be mindful of probably on a daily basis is making sure that I'm i'm not doing that. What about you, Beth? Oh, sorry. No, keep going. um Not yet.
Speaker: Any comments on that? contentent yeah ah like Oh, like, no, I don't empathise at all. No, no, I get it. I get it. I'm familiar. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, like in the bio, like, yeah. So probably most of my early career was, like, forensic settings. And I think the temptation there is probably, like, but you know, like, yeah, like you said, kind of either despairing over things that are so broken, you know, some things are really evil, and then, like, kind of sometimes you're like, I can't even tolerate this. Like, you know, this is just detached. Like, oh you know, I'm either like, yep, we're taking it all on or we're, like, detaching.
Speaker: But I also think, like, it's easy – To look at people and just be like, yeah, well, what you did was dumb. Like, I would never do that. Or like, you know, you need to try harder for this to be better.
Speaker: And I think, you know, that's probably if i the stuff that makes me cringe is looking back earlier and just even if you don't say it, it's that hard attitude of like, why would you even do that? Like, that's just, you know what i mean?
Speaker: Like, why are you even here? Like, why are you even at this service? You know, or like, you're making my life harder by being here sometimes. You know, like if you could just stop doing that, then we wouldn't have to see you again and you wouldn't have to be in prison again and we wouldn't have to be at your door.
Speaker: But like, that's not, and I think Rachel and I probably talked about this the other week, but yeah, I think it's, that can be a temptation as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, I know for me when you see, you meet a lot of people and there's very similar patterns of behaviour, it's very easy to put people in one basket.
Speaker: So, yeah, so like you said, it's, yeah, I think, yeah, I know for myself I really have to, it is something I pray about in the morning when I go to work that I will see each person, you know, as God sees them. Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, and and and just love others, whether that's colleagues, whether that's people I'm working with, whether that's my my own kids who are driving me up the wall. And yeah, what's another temptation?
Speaker: Probably the idea that burnout is a personal failure or a weakness. And, yeah. How do the weak people burn out?
Speaker: You're like, I'm like capacity. So pushing yourself that bit too far. I know I've done it before. i'm I'm getting better at it now for sure. But in the in the early years, um yeah, I was terrible with it.
Speaker: Just pushing pushing yourself that bit further. And really not, yeah, not focusing on or not seeing that, yeah, you're not you're not okay and you're not coping and that maybe you do need to take a break, take a holiday, actually work within your hours or, you know.
Speaker: What? Put in some boundaries. boundaries those are for these for other people yeah I think yeah I think a big thing in particularly in ed nursing obviously you guys deal a bit more I feel like we are all always dealing with acute crisis and often particularly well in nursing in particular it's about symptom management not You know, if someone's come in and they're off their tree and they're not safe, we have to hold them down and sedate them.
Speaker: And so it's just about getting things done. And so it's really easy to stop seeing that person as a person. They're a task. They're very difficult to manage. They're a danger um Which is quite, it's initially very confronting. And then like, I actually had new grads, like I think last year, and they were really like shocked um at the first restraint and sedation. And I was like, oh, I forgot how shocking this is.
Speaker: Forgot how like distressing it is to see someone be like restrained against their will because I'm so used to it. And I think often because people's mental health is so poor that they are often a revolving door. They come back in with the same presentations or the same things. And then the help they receive is...
Speaker: Either they don't engage with the help or the help they receive is not enough. And so then it becomes disheartening, but then it's just like, well, you're just, you're really inconveniencing me because I know you're going stay here. You're going to be here for five days, go to a bed, then get released and then come back.
Speaker: And I have to manage you this whole time. And that the temptation, well, I mean, I say temptation, like I don't often give into it, but it's It's very difficult to see someone as a person rather than just, oh, my gosh, you are so much work for me and you are affecting all these other people and you you cannot even see that.
Speaker: And it's really hard to see someone as less than that, oh, sorry, as more than that in the acute settings. Which sounds, I think, is is quite hard for people who don't have not seen it to thinking, oh, my gosh, that's so awful that you like you don't think of people, you think of people that way.
Speaker: But it's a reality of the setting.
Speaker: I think cringey things I've done early on would be... I think some people are quite manipulative and I definitely have been hoodwinked by over-engaging with with someone, like ah someone with with mental health problems and they've come in and they've manipulated me, not to do anything terrible, but I've like sort of engage with them and then afterwards going, okay, none of that was true. Or that was all, yeah, they were trying to get something out of me that, yeah. And I thought, oh, that and that was kind of an experience thing that you've, you sort of get better at dealing with. I've definitely been there. Yes.
Speaker: Yes. But then also, you know, that's also a process of their issues and their disease processes as well. yeah. I've come to expect those things but I think yeah it's very it's very easy to see people as an inconvenience or as a task and not as you know made in God's image and a product of their environment and they're all the things that have happened in their life yeah all the all the stuff you can't see yeah absolutely absolutely
Speaker: Yeah. So what has helped you reconcile your faith with what you see in the world? Are there any specific gospel truths that you can think of that have helped you in the setting that you work?
Speaker: So something, I think the thing that really helped for me was kind of thinking, like really being like, you know, God sees everything, like God knows.
Speaker: So like kind of, Yeah. Like he sees every sin. he sees everything that has happened. Like he is going to deal with everything perfectly. So like, even if this kid like is never going to take the stand for something to happen, even if like, you know, the way our justice system works, you know, and the way that like neuroscience works, like God sees, God knows he's going to deal with it perfectly But also i was like, that means that he also sees my heart. So I'm like, okay, yep, blood I'm saved by grace. Anyone can be saved by grace. It's like, it's me, it's them. It's not like I earned my way in here because I'm like a really wicked clean psych and, you know, i like I got some gold stars.
Speaker: Like, you know, so I think he also sees my heart and he sees that like, oh, well, I failed to love my neighbor. Like I'm not particularly kind. I'm like, I'm judgmental, you know, like all of those kind of things.
Speaker: I think that really helped. And I also, but it just kind of gave a name for like some stuff just can't be fixed by like therapy alone. You're like some stuff is just evil and it's okay to name it as that. Whereas I think modern mental health will just say like you did that because you're unwell. You're like, well, some people did that because they like doing bad things. Yeah, for sure. And they like to hurt people. And i think for me in the end, I was like, actually there is nothing else that kind of,
Speaker: could explain some of the stuff that you would see. in Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um In a similar vein, i remember when I was working in child protection, I think it might have been before that, I did a prac in child protection and I'd read through some pretty horrific cases where these kids had just been through yeah my shocking childhood.
Speaker: And I remember going home, so I was living at home at the time, and like asking my dad, because you know he's very wise and has a lot of knowledge, just like, why? One, why did God promise to never flood the earth again? Like, considering how much evil is in the world. Yeah, I think we do flood.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. And I think I also made the statement that I don't think I want children in this world. And he he couldn't really give me an answer. so He kind of said, you know, I remember thinking the same things. It's something I had to pray through. But then I think it was it was either that night or sometime soon after i just decided or had the the urge to read through Job of all the books.
Speaker: So I read through the whole book of Job from beginning to end, and it's a pretty brutal Like Job's life was pretty brutal. He had everything, went from having everything to having nothing. yeah And then these friends of his who pretty much have kept trying to say all the way through that you must have done something wrong. You've done something wrong to deserve this. What have you done?
Speaker: And then at the end, when Job himself questions why these things have happened and God says, who are you to question me? Like, where were you when I created the world?
Speaker: And so I think that there's some things we're just never going to have answers for. Yeah. like And it was actually quite reassuring for me. I think because I'm someone who likes to... I like to have answers.
Speaker: I like to deep dive into things. I want to find, you know, find out the nitty gritty and, yeah, try and work things out for myself. But there's, it was reassuring to know that I don't need to know these things. I don't don't need to know why they happen.
Speaker: martin Like you said back in in the end, God is in control and everything goes according to his plan. yeah. Yeah, that's always stuck with me, that some things we'll just never understand, even if we knew we probably wouldn't understand them.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the big, like i think was what you said back as well, like the big, the big picture of it all is sometimes helpful because I know people often ask me, oh, you know, what, what's like the most common like things that you get in, in ED and stuff. And obviously it's a lot of substance abuse and like a lot of people have genuine mental health issues, but it's, you know, the chicken or the egg and, um and often people go oh, you know, drugs and alcohol and all these things. And I think what's helpful is people kind of go, oh, you know, what what things do we need to do? Like, do we need more, you know, a mental health ED so people can go there or more detox? And it's like what we need is like if you take it all the way back to like the family unit and society in general is you're like people actually need Jesus because it's like these people –
Speaker: You know, this a person who's addicted to meth potentially was born to a 14-year-old mum who was in a family who had zero coping skills and she also was an addict. So then this person has been raised in an environment that has, you know, they have been taught no coping skills. They've probably had a lot of traumatic things happen. And then they're now self-medicating with drugs and alcohol as well. And then also potentially there's this whole thing where you go back and back and back, what do we need to do to deal with it? You think, well, essentially, the that's what that's what people need. Like, people love to put new services in place. And not that that's something that we can obviously do for everyone, but sometimes it's easier, to it's easier I find, to think of the big picture of like, okay, it's a world issue. It's a whole picture issue. It's not just this person and the things in their life.
Speaker: Because the system doesn't know what to do with someone who had a really good upbringing, but then is like, you know, off their face on meth and carrying around a machete and stabbing people. And they're like, but you don't, you don't have any of those like risk factors. Yeah. How do we, how do we treat you? What do we do with you? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that the other end of that is that I, and not in an unkind way, i was like, those people can give me a lot of like a springboard for gratitude in my own life of, you know, we all think about, you know, we we all think about the things your parents did and decisions they made or whatever. And you go, you know what?
Speaker: I've had a great family and there's a lot of amazing things in my life that You know, the reason the person I am today is because of all these things and I can be grateful for those things.
Speaker: And not that you want to use someone else's life as inspiration because your life is better, but gratitude is the antidote to a lot of the feelings that we have.
Speaker: And so sometimes the perspective of that I find helpful to go, okay, what can i be grateful for instead of ah being judgmental? Yeah. And I mean, something that like similarly I noticed, like, so, you know, it's easy to be like, I would never do the thing that you're doing.
Speaker: Like I would never do that, right? And i would never do that because I'm super great. exactly But i remember doing treatment assessments and it's really interesting because you talk to people as they come into prison and you're like, you just meet them once. And you're like, okay, talk to me about like what was going on in your life, like what was happening. Then, you know, you kind of review the incident. Like, okay, so like this is your offense. Like what's your account of it, blah, blah. And you're working out like what program to put people on.
Speaker: But what's so interesting, right, because the programs that they go into really look at like they're thinking. So your whole model is like you change what you think, you can change what you do. But you're drilling down. And what's so interesting is the thoughts are the same.
Speaker: And although what people get into, you're like, oh, I wouldn't do that thing. But you're like, the way that you're thinking actually is the same way that I think about stuff that I'm not supposed to do. You're like, that's a stupid rule. I don't need to do that. Like, you know, i the the I'm the exception to the rule. They basically fall into like, I'm the exception. I had a special reason. Yeah. Like,
Speaker: I really needed it. No one's going to find out I deserve it. Like all of that stuff, it's the same. The heart is deceiving. So you think, usually you're like, if I continue down that path, you're like, yeah, I can see how those things would grow and grow and grow. m Yeah. And you're like, like you're saying, but for the for the grace of God, there go I. Like I could, in a different situation, I could be you. I don't know.
Speaker: And I think yeah that has also given, i find people, particularly other Christians, are a lot happier to share honestly their sin and their things to me because I was like, I am not much shocks me. And like the sin my own sin and the sin of others, it's like people are capable of a lot of things, but it has made people I find a lot more transparent because with me because they've heard me speak about things and like, oh, okay, like, you know, the things we've all seen in these things, I feel like it's it the desensitisation of it means people are often more comfortable to be honest with me about their own struggles and their own sins.
Speaker: which is like, you know, great. That's great that people feel that way because, yeah, I don't i don't mind. And whereas I know some people that grew up in a Christian home, you know, and now work in ah at a Christian workplace. And some, like my sister, for example, she's literally got married really young, is a teacher, works at a Christian school. And some some of the things I tell her at work, she's like, I can't. She can't reconcile it anywhere because she's never seen it, which is in a lot of ways a blessing for her But it's definitely afforded me opportunities because ah people feel more comfortable to disclose things or to share.
Speaker: Have you guys found that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember working out pretty early on that that work talk wasn't um appropriate for the dinner table. Yes, yeah, very much so. For that very reason, you you try to offload a bit, just a bit, yeah and that just seemed to traumatise everyone around you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. Although thankfully um for me, I have sisters, like one one is an ED nurse, a pharmacist. So um I've got a niece who's a nurse as well. So we can kind of offload to each other, which is nice. Yeah, that's good. odds Particularly other Christians as well, though, because I think, I mean, that's the the the question as well, isn't it, of like in a Christian context,
Speaker: Because, i like, you know, it's easy to talk to your colleagues, but often that, go you know, divulges into whinging. a So have you guys found, like, do you have any Christian colleagues as social workers, Kaya?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm actually very thankful them in the current role I'm in. I've got a few colleagues who are Christian, so. Wow. I am, yeah, I'm very prone to dark humour. Same. Which goes with the role, right? um Especially after i've acting at a while. I'm such an Anna.
Speaker: What do you mean? the so Sometimes it's good to sit with some of my colleagues and go, is this okay, guys? Have I gone too far? Like, what? I've never asked probably quite often I do go too far, but anyway. Yeah, same as it is.
Speaker: I remember having a friend, went someone i was talking to once, and they were like, aren't you a therapist? And I was like, yeah, and I'm not at work today. my day
Speaker: off. I don't care today. yeah like Exactly. well And sometimes people who are mentally unwell do very funny things too.
Speaker: but Have you guys, this is going slo not off topic, but it's not a question that we've got. Have you guys wrestled with the, like as a Christian and God's design of the mind and, and mental health and thinking of like how it's such a,
Speaker: You know, i i like people who are physically sick. It's easier to deal with. Yeah. And because it's often a a very ongoing, because an ongoing thing, you know, obviously it's often a lifelong struggle.
Speaker: i don't know where i'm going with that, but discuss. Because, yeah, like I say, I only really deal i only deal with acute acute mental health crises. I don't deal with ongoing treatment and actual – and, like, also also i almost never see anyone become well.
Speaker: And that's quite depressing. Yeah. I didn't get to see that until I went to private practice. Yeah. Okay. Was it encouraging? and it was Yeah. Okay. It was great. Encouraging. And I like, Hey man, like how how, like, how long do you think you're going to come? Like, I mean, like when do you reckon you would like need to stop coming? Because I think you're doing really well.
Speaker: Or they come to see you from their GP and you're like, you realize there was a problem. And then like, you went to, you asked for help and you went to see someone, you're going to be fine.
Speaker: You're doing really well. That's all the steps. I know. Yeah. compared to mandated services, you're like, this is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, so that that really did help in some weird ways.
Speaker: Yeah. Sorry, you asked a question and I had was like, I had a point but then I got sidetracked. What was the question? About but thinking about it as a Christian, like the idea of mental health and, yeah. Yes, yes. So I think the thing that really blew my mind and i at it's so simple that it's dumb is like I think modern mental health be like you're really sad and it's kind of like it's you and like you specifically need a therapist for like the rest of your life and all of these things.
Speaker: But it's so interesting when you look at like how the brain works and how people move through like difficult things. Actually, a lot of the things that people really need in Christ and in the church and like in a practical sense to say like you have a diagnosis of like PTSD or like CPTSD and one of the things is like those change beliefs about the world to say something really bad happens to you and then you're like oh I'm fundamentally alone or I will always be alone or nothing everything is meaningless everything is purposeless the other ones like
Speaker: ah You know, you can't trust people. I'm not safe. No one sees. Those are all like really common PTSD ones. But...
Speaker: but what's interesting is like you're like okay youre theologically like yes you have christ he sees everything he knows everything he's with you you're never alone but then you also you're like you're not meant to recover on your own you have people like in the church in the body you're like the holy spirit will walk alongside you the church will walk alongside you like therapy you might get 10 sessions if you're lucky but there are people that will like walk with you through all of life and be with you. And even like the act of singing, like I think it activates like oh whatever, it activates like the parasympathetic nervous system and it's like that rest, digest that like calming.
Speaker: Yeah. and And you're doing it with all of these people and like people have been doing this for thousands of years, but actually it's a really, one of those things that's really calming and I you know you're tempted to think like yeah the bible says to do it and I'll do it yep like okay fine I'll sing in church like that's weird but I got used to it and but as you go along like there's so much of that beautiful design that I think Christians suffer in a way that like people who don't have faith don't have those resources
Speaker: and and this is my TED talk hope is very powerful And I think that that's that's kind of helpful as well to go, oh, this this person is hopeless. Like this person is unwell and has a lot of other things, but they have zero hope.
Speaker: But, oh, there's a proverb, isn't it? And it's like if you...
Speaker: Something about like a crushed, you know what mean, a crushed spirit, like who can bear? They're like, you know, if you have a broken bone, like fine. But like if you have a crushed spirit, if you don't have any hope, a oh good like who can go on? Thank you. Well, while she's looking for it. Yeah. go go As you're saying, like around church community, like these days, there's not really many other places you find community. No, that's so true. There's nothing like that. And I work, like for me, trying to work practically with people when they need a bit more support, when you find out they're connected to a church, it's like, oh, oh, there's a resource we can use.
Speaker: Like not, yep, some people just really don't don't have anybody. Yeah, they're so alone. For whatever reason that might be. And it I can't imagine, like i think after I had my second son, I've had a pretty hard time mentally. if I didn't have my family, my friends, my husband to support me, like if I didn't have that, and if you add other social stresses on top of that, whether that's, I don't know, you're at risk of being evicted from your house or, you know, you you're you're surviving from paycheck to paycheck or not quite surviving from paycheck to paycheck, then, know,
Speaker: geez, I would be an absolute mess. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. yeah And we always we always, like you sort of touched on earlier, we always see people in that more acute setting in hospital where they're the most vulnerable. they've They're relying on the medical team or the the health team, multidisciplinary team around them to make the best decisions for them. And a lot of the time we take that decision-making out of their hands, like when they're an inpatient. For sure.
Speaker: It's a really vulnerable space to be in. And if you weren't doing great in the first place, put someone in a, you know, on a mental health unit. and Yeah. Yeah, what you actually see I don't think is always very good picture of who that person is. No, absolutely. No. Yeah. Here we go, Proverbs 17, 22, a cheerful heart is good medicine but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
Speaker: Is that that one? Mm-hmm. yeah Yeah, that's very, that's so true. I think, I think that's the thing is i I've, I've very, oh, actually no, once I have seen a patient who is a bit of a frequent flyer and she has schizophrenia. And so she's, was often in, and then I saw her out in the community. Well, and i was like, she looked like a different person.
Speaker: She was, Like just thought her, like her face, like she looked the same as in like her body, but her face and just her demeanour. And i was like, oh, she is well.
Speaker: And I just have, I'd never, I hardly ever get to see that. Which really does actually taint my view because you think, oh, yeah. But it does. Yeah. Like I would see people come in, like honestly in private practice,
Speaker: And you would be, because I was doing like trauma therapy, but then people would come in and all of a sudden, like, I don't know, it was like their face was different and it was kind of like lit up. And they would be talking about like the simplest of things. They'd be like, oh, i got out in the garden. Or I was like, you know, I've just been cooking this meal, but not like just, you know, the toast to sustain me, but like, oh, I made a meal because I i like like doing it. Or I went for a walk.
Speaker: Yeah. And you're like, you would just know, you're like, oh, oh, that's that point. Like you started to recognize it. You're like, you're going to get well. You're getting well. Yeah. ah That's very exciting.
Speaker: It totally is. i was like, yeah for all of the hard things about private practice, that was a really cool thing to be like, oh, people actually get well. Yeah. I just never got to see it before. Yeah.
Speaker: Is there anything practically that you do differently differently differently these days than what you used to do or what you've done in the past and what helps you navigate working in this area with wisdom? do you have like mentors or books, resources, anything that have helped you along the way?
Speaker: Hmm. To be honest, for me, I think life experience has made a big difference. Yeah, 100%. You know, whether it's friends or family experiencing mental health or someone going through some other illness and then...
Speaker: But seeing the healthcare system from the other side o oh yeah as well as a family member or the patient it gives you a real insight into some of the assumptions, stereotypes and kind of things that where you know i'm myself and I have done in the past.
Speaker: So, yeah, so I think that side of things has been very helpful for me through the years. Yeah. Yeah, I think you did. I agree. i think I just have – because I think I've i've been a nurse almost like I graduated 2011, so almost 15 years. sir six Yeah, years.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think I was 20. twentynie You know, i was – and, i you know, you think about just the person that I was and sometimes, yeah, you just – wisdom is a gift of age. like And it's – it's a you know yeah it's It's nice to have been through a few things and then, yeah, the people around me as well and stuff that we've been through will hopefully continue to provide more empathy instead of like fuel more judgment. I think I've become a lot more empathetic as you just, you think, right, like you see a lot more of the world and you see people struggling and in crisis and it not not much surprises me now in a good way of that.
Speaker: Yeah, the you can hopefully try and see the person underneath things rather than just the things they do. I think the things that do help in terms of dealing with it is, like you say, Kaya, about like dealing with burnout.
Speaker: And like i had my first holiday in three years last year, which was dumb. That was too long to not go without a holiday. um And I had a month off and it was so dumb. Well, we didn't have enough staff and they wouldn't approve my leave. Anyway, whatever.
Speaker: Look, Holodizer for the week. Exactly. As is sleep. ah And I literally, after a month off, i was like, oh, I was way closer to burning out than I thought I was.
Speaker: Like, I thought I was, like, a bit what stressed, but I was fine. And then after that, was like, oh, no. I was like, no. I was way, thick like, and when I came back, I was like, I feel great. Like, I have my duck feathers back. Stuff is just rolling off. And it turns out people are not lying. You're meant to, like, take a break and, like,
Speaker: yeah It's weird. It's amazing how hindsight works. Yeah, it's funny that, except it's now been like seven months since I've had another break and I'm not having a break till July. But I do have leave booked and a year is better than three. So much better. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: And literally the things I wrote down were like, those things i was like pray more like I think now I'm much more inclined to just be like don't know I'm just going to pray about that or if someone like if I had a client who was difficult or I find them really hard I would just be very inclined to be like I need to pray for this client more I need to pray for them before I see them this is a slight side note but on topic do you guys ever pray within your work day because Yes. so Okay. Because i don't. Because I find that, like, I'll often get to the end of my shift and go, oh, I haven't i haven't thought about God at all. I've just done my tasks. Like, I haven't. Because, it's ah you know, it's a busy place and there's always something to do.
Speaker: And so I've often thought, I was like, oh i don't. In the moment, I don't pray for people. But obviously, like, you guys have a bit more talky jobs than I do. In in the moment, talking to someone, do you actually pray in the moment?
Speaker: Yeah, I would pray at the start of my day. And in more more hectic jobs, I would pray for like something, you know, if I knew I was going into a difficult meeting or I was going to do something hard, yeah, I've i've got a tendency to be like like, okay, I'll pray at the start of the day. I'll pray for all the people I'm going to see. But then if it was something particularly that I was like worried about, I've just been like, okay, I'm just going pray about that and i'll just pray real quick, even if it's just like help me. Yeah.
Speaker: Help, help, help. I do. Yeah, I'm definitely the same. i think. Yeah, a lot of what I do is problem solving. Yeah.
Speaker: like And in the in the current world, like, I mean, we've got a housing crisis here. It's ridiculous that, you know, I've got, I'm working with older patients who come in the rental they've been living in for 20 years has been sold and they cannot afford to rent another place so they're forced to go into aged care or, you know, circumstances like that where I'm like,
Speaker: i The only option is God, please do a miracle. yeah Yeah. Or at least guide me in the right direction because there's so much, um yeah, there there are just so many problems I can't solve on my own or even just as a, you know, the social work department we couldn't solve.
Speaker: So I usually find, yeah that's when i I'll pray about it. I'm not so good at praying at the start of the day. i do ask for wisdom usually as I'm driving to work. Nice.
Speaker: But, yeah, it mine is more on the spot depending on who I'm working with and what's going on. Nice. The other thing I was going to say just it it reminded me is just, like, I think the other thing that has helped is just limits as a concept.
Speaker: Just, like, I am a limited human being. Like, I get tired. I get cranky. you know, like, I just can't do everything. But trusting that, like, God doesn't have limits Like, and he made them and he knows them and they also have personal responsibility, like, has just lifted, I think, a lot of the burden of feeling so responsible for people.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. of do Have you had any miracles, Cara?
Speaker: I definitely have. and Yeah, for sure. so I think sometimes I have a habit of thinking that, It's my responsibility to solve more yeah than I can, like within my within the role just in general. I want to go in and I want to fix it.
Speaker: and That's just my sort of mindset. Yeah, there's been a few things I've prayed about that have definitely been miracles, though, whether it's someone finding a house, whether it's... you know, this family member coming out of the woodwork to care for the kids so we don't have to get CPFS involved, that kind of thing. That's cool. Like, yeah. That's encouraging too.
Speaker: It's very, yeah, definitely. yeah I usually find when I do pray about the big things, there is an answer. It's not always what I expect or, you know, um but it's, yeah, there's I generally do get an answer of some kind. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think it's also sometimes like letting go of the like pride of like, I want, I want to, I want to solve it. I want to do the thing that like, that I want to have finished my day and feel like I've done something productive and and actually helped someone.
Speaker: in in a practical way, in a way that will actually, and then they'll be like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. you've You've helped me. But it doesn't always go like that. And then it's also that thing of at the end of the day, like, well, that's, you know, they do need a house, but they also need Christ.
Speaker: yeahs Yeah. And that's the thing of like, that's me going like, oh, but I want to do the thing that will make me feel good on the inside as well, that I've, you know, I'm worth the thing because I was helpful. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And it is that thing where, like, Christianity is a really practical faith and, you know, we are called to, like, love, you know, like, if it's all that James, you know, like, if you love people but, like, you don't actually help them practically. Well, and none of our jobs would exist if it wasn't for the church. Yeah. No, hey no. Yeah, they originally came out of that. But I think it it's that, isn't it? You're like, it is a good thing to help people and it is you know, that's it is good to get, it's yeah, it's good to help people but I think it's, yeah, if you're doing it out of a sense of, like, identity, like, if, you know, if you finish a day and you feel like you haven't helped anyone, like, are you then worth anything?
Speaker: Like, I reckon that's a good indicator, like, yeah. Yeah, even if it didn't go to plan, you're like, God still loves me. like He still loves them no matter how it went.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He still loves them. He still loves me. Like, you know, the sun will rise again tomorrow. Yeah. And in the end, circling back to what you said before, Bec, like in the end, God deals with it all.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. moon And he sees the bigger the bigger big picture. Yeah, and the whole and the whole timeline. often like to think about that, of, like, God being outside time because it's just like, oh, yeah, that's, yeah, cool.
Speaker: It's fine. you're you You see it. It's all right. Yeah. Right. Okay, well, hopefully that was helpful to any sort of frontline workers listening from the people that put the question in. It's a big...
Speaker: a big topic and it's an ongoing, and ongoing thing. Our society is not the easiest place to live in. Thanks for listening. Bye.
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