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What I Learned Through Church Conflict: An Interview with Rhianon Rae
88 Plays2 months ago
We are interviewing all of our regular contributors in Season 1 for you to get to know them better. Today’s guest is Rhianon Rae, who shares beautifully about her difficulty with vulnerability throughout her life and what God has taught her about his faithfulness and peace through seasons of doubt and church conflict as a pastor's wife.
Rhianon is married to Sam and spends much of her time loving and looking after their three (soon to be four) children. In God’s kindness, she first heard the gospel from her parents, and has since trained in Christian ministry with UWA Christian Union and Trinity Theological College. In this season, she enjoys leading a Bible study, coffee dates with friends, watching cricket, and dreaming of the day she can play netball again.
In today’s episode, we explore:
- The joys of cricket, netball, and reading the Bible one to one with other women.
- Growing up in a Christian family on a farm in the country and becoming a Christian as a child.
- Struggling with doubts as a teenager and young adult, and the role Christian Union had in her life as they were not afraid of the big questions.
- Walking through a season of church conflict as a pastor’s wife and her fears of the damage to her reputation and relationships, her desire to avoid conflict, and what God taught her about forgiveness, his faithfulness and peace, and the value of having trusted people outside of your own ministry context to walk alongside you.
You can check out the show notes for everything mentioned in the episode.
If you enjoyed this episode, sign up for free encouragement in your inbox on Wednesdays from local Christian women. One week you get essays and poetry, the next week you get a podcast episode.
If you want to send us compliments or constructive suggestions, flick me an email rebecca@storiesidtellyouatdinner.com.au
Music: Come Back by Ketsa. Licensed under a Creative Commons License Non-Commercial, No-Derivatives 4.0 International License.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The After Dinner Mint' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I can do 27 things in one afternoon, but no, this, need, this, I need God's help.
00:00:11
Speaker
This is the After Dinner Mint, a podcast of stories I tell you at dinner. Think of the mint as the stories you tell after you've been kicked out of the restaurant, holding your mint, standing in the street, telling more honest stories with your friends than you did at the table.
00:00:26
Speaker
It's not a sermon. It's not advice. It's not self-help. We're processing what we're learning about faith and life, honestly, in community, to encourage you to do that with your God and your community.
Guest Introduction: Rhiannon Ray and Her Background
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi, I'm Bec and today I'm here with Rhiannon Ray, who's married to Sam and she has three soon-to-be-four children. She trained in Christian ministry with UWA Christian Union and Trinity Theological College. She's also one of our regular writers at Stories.
00:00:57
Speaker
Welcome, Rhiannon. Thanks, Bec. Nice to be here. So glad to have you. So, Rhiannon, tell us, what does a typical week look like for you? What kind of things make up your week?
00:01:09
Speaker
I am ah currently, most of my week is looking after our three kiddos. and So I've got two children at school and one at home with me and another one coming soon.
00:01:23
Speaker
So that takes up a fair bit of my time. Doing school drop-offs takes up more time than I could have ever thought that it would. Yeah. And aside from that, I love ah running a Bible study on a Thursday, which has just finished up now, and going either going to craches or helping with craches.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's a pretty good summary my week. Lovely. And also I feel like being pregnant, is a it's ah it is a whole thing in your week when you're like, how do I get to this appointment in amongst the rest of this?
Family Life and Love for Cricket
00:01:59
Speaker
Yes, yes, that is very true. Yes. Yeah, especially those appointments where you're not supposed to take other children with you. Those ones are the trippy ones to work with. Those are the bane of, yeah, you're like, why? Why? Like, I'm clearly i already like children. Why can't they be here?
00:02:13
Speaker
But anyway. I think something about them not liking the children unplugging the important medical equipment or something like that. That's insensible, doesn't Yeah, yeah. yeah Oh, man. Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker
Okay. Now I have a question because I did see in your bio that you actually really like watching cricket. and i do. I love it. like He loves cricket and plays it and is training our boys to play cricket.
00:02:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But how did you come by this love of cricket? Because I have to know. Very much a family family thing. So grew up in the country and I've got three younger brothers.
00:02:49
Speaker
And so i was a tomboy growing up very much so. I was like the only girl on the Juju cricket team. we played a lot of backyard cricket and we became...
00:03:00
Speaker
are Wacker members when I think my brother and I, I must have been 10 and he must have been about 8. So we have gone to the cricket as a family for, yeah, a really long time.
00:03:14
Speaker
So it's this kind of whole big family thing. We all sit together and, yeah, love it.
Passion for Sports and Theology
00:03:20
Speaker
That's so lovely. And I'm like, I see my husband teaching the boys and it's like this, there' is there's so much language to it. Like it's its own,
00:03:28
Speaker
who thing like everything you know like this is a duck and this is like this particular type of shot and they all have different names yeah it's yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure and I think it's actually a really nice way to have incidental conversations like you can just be chatting about the cricket and then you know sitting side by side and then you can also chat about other things ah maybe particularly with brothers yeah Yeah, so I really like it as well.
00:03:58
Speaker
No, that's – I feel like I'm going to need to really learn alongside the kids. I'm learning about like that and physics, neither of which I don't know much about, but I'm really trying. No, I can't help you with physics, but, you know, cricket, yeah, chat about cricket.
00:04:14
Speaker
Excellent. Physics, chemistry, yes, any of those things. Awesome. So in terms of like I am bad at both of those things, but what are the things that like kind of make you feel most like yourself? Like what are the things that make you feel alive?
00:04:26
Speaker
I really love sports. I grew up playing a lot of sports. I still love sport and netball is my all-time favourite. My knees currently don't like netball very much and my season of life is also not good for netball.
00:04:42
Speaker
So I'm not playing it currently, but I really, I just really enjoy it and I feel invigorated when I get to do it. So any ah any opportunity I have to play, I grab it.
00:04:55
Speaker
And the other thing that I really ah love getting the chance to do is to study and reflect and chat about the Bible, theology, church history.
Leading Bible Studies and Hospitality
00:05:08
Speaker
i really love doing that and getting the chance to teach it as well. So I'm so thankful that my husband Sam has kind of Supported me through plotting through part-time study at Trinity. It's been really, i really actually enjoy it. People ask me, like, how do you do that with kids? And I'm like, well, actually, I really love going to lectures.
00:05:31
Speaker
I don't love handing in assignments so much. Referencing definitely don't love, but actually sitting there soaking it all in. Yeah, really enjoy that. That's so cool. So, you like, the sport thing, i I'm not, yeah, I didn't really play a lot of sport and i I'm trying to be a person who does like exercisey things, but I'm whatever.
00:05:53
Speaker
So this is sad like, I don't, I'd like to understand the sporting thing, but I don't really, but the like theological, like just being like, yes, I get to sit here and listen. Like I, you're talking, I'm like, oh, that sounds so cool. Like I'm so jealous. Yep. Yep. Yep.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, and like running the Women's Bible Study is like, yeah, it was like an ongoing joke that I was just obsessed with maps or like where people were going. I was like, such a nerd. Yeah, yeah. no i um I really love it. And I really love the chance it gives you to, i feel like it's so hard in, you know, young children season to sit down, focus at that time to get into God's Word deeply.
00:06:33
Speaker
And I found leading a Bible study just forced me to do that. Like, I was doing it for other people, so I had to do it for myself, and that was, I really appreciate that. Yeah. There's something in the fact that you're like, people are coming to my house, and they're expecting, you know what mean, you're like, they're coming and I've invited them and I can't get out of this now, so
Christian Upbringing and Spiritual Growth
00:06:51
Speaker
I'm going to have to do it. Like, it's very motivating.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. It's also a strong motivation for cleaning, I find. Yes.
00:07:02
Speaker
Best way to keep your house clean is you keep inviting people over. You're like, I've got to stay on top of this. People should do this. That's right. The covers can only hide so much. ah
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, you're like, it's partly because I love Jesus, but partly also because the pure territory. Yeah, I need my house to be clean. Yeah. yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So how did you become a Christian? I am very thankful that I grew up with a Christian family and, yeah, Christian parents who were just really committed to passing on faith to us and to taking us to church, actually.
00:07:41
Speaker
ah think that was, I think as I look back, on my upbringing, i think we were, we always knew that going to church was like non-negotiable. and And, you know, we did family devotions and things like that.
00:07:56
Speaker
And so it meant that I think you had to make a choice about God. You know, God couldn't just be something in the corner. you You know, you had to go, okay, well, am I going go with this or am I not? Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
So I'm really thankful for that. But I remember after there was like a kids club that ran after school and so they just used to do really simple, straight out gospel presentations.
00:08:23
Speaker
So I reckon I would have been eight or nine, something like that, and like kneeling by my window, you know, praying that Jesus would come into my heart, that sort of thing.
00:08:34
Speaker
And that was actually really real for me. Like as a kid, was like, yes, I'm a Christian. want you to Christian. And then went through that kind of normal, very common, I guess, Christian kid story of wrestling with doubts as a teenager.
00:08:48
Speaker
But, yeah, I think God kept me all through that. And then I hit uni and got plugged into the Christian Union and just found people who were not afraid of these questions, tackled them head on, who loved Jesus and, yeah, really grew a lot there.
00:09:10
Speaker
That's so great. And I just,
Influences and Mentorship
00:09:13
Speaker
like, I love that it's so many people I talk to are like, I put my faith in Jesus as a little child and like haven't wavered from that. You're like, there's just something so beautiful that, you know, children come to Jesus and they can.
00:09:32
Speaker
And the more that you grow, like there's so many things that you could learn, like you could spend your entire life learning, but the essence of it, like a child can become a Christian. I just, I think it's so beautiful. Yeah.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and I'm so grateful for it because it really did shape my thinking from that time um and, you know, praise God for that, you know.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, it makes me very thankful.
00:10:00
Speaker
So who is someone who's encouraged you or inspired you in your Christian walk and why? Yeah, I think probably connects with that previous answer really. So ah firstly, as I said, my parents, just for their example, i think.
00:10:14
Speaker
And then the second a person I would say i was Rosemary Thorburn. She met with me for three years, one-to-one to read the Bible when I was a uni student.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think initially because I'd got elected to CU committee in my second year and they were like, wait a second, second. Who is this person? We need to make sure she's... Okay.
00:10:38
Speaker
She's game to the system, but who is she? so ah That's right, that's right. And then, yeah, and then I just got the privilege of keeping on meeting with her.
00:10:51
Speaker
and then I actually came back a few years after finishing uni to do an MTS apprenticeship, um ministry apprenticeship with the Christian Union. And then Rosemary was my trainer.
00:11:03
Speaker
So, and yeah, she just taught me so much. And I think... Also taught me how to do vulnerable conversations, how to one-to-one stuff that I would have been way to nervous to try, just be like, let's avoid all of those things.
00:11:27
Speaker
She was really good at just doing it well. How do you do it well? Like what what were the main things that you Ask Rosemary. Yeah. I think, yeah.
00:11:39
Speaker
I think the one-to-one context is really great for it. You know, like there there are things that you could never ask someone directly in a Bible study, um you know, in ah in a bigger group of people because it would be too confronting.
00:11:53
Speaker
But as you regularly read the Bible with them and just keep in checking on things how they're going with prayer and godliness that you can have those conversations so it's something I miss actually about that phase of life particularly when I was doing my apprenticeship I got to meet it with people one-to-one all the time um and it is a real privilege to share in someone's life in that way yeah it really is Yeah, so it sounds like the main thing for you in terms of raising vulnerable stuff was more like picking your context and linking it to like what you're reading about and that kind of sense of growing in godliness.
00:12:34
Speaker
Those were the... Yeah, yeah, and I think just being willing to ask, to ask the question and also to yourself go, actually, I'm really struggling with this or this is making me feel sad um and being willing to...
Church Conflict and Reliance on Faith
00:12:52
Speaker
say that rather than hide it, really. Yeah, you're like, I'm not trying to be happy-clappy and I'm kind of modelling that for you. You're like, yeah, I'm like, yep, I'm not having a good day. Things are not going well for me.
00:13:05
Speaker
Like, you know, yeah here i am and we're going to do it anyway. Yeah. That's, I like that. Yeah, I like that a lot. And it that kind of fits with I have noticed over the years and maybe because I've had a series of unusual jobs that like child protection or working in hospitals and just walking around to people's rooms and being like, hey, I heard you were sad. Do you want to chat? like um But I have noticed that actually by just naming stuff, people – unless
00:13:36
Speaker
I don't know. I think if you're saying, if you say to things to people like, you know, how are, you know, ah you're feeling really depressed, yeah you know, you're feeling really down or you can't get out of bed. Like, have you thought about hurting yourself? Have you thought about killing yourself? Have you thought about how you would do that?
00:13:48
Speaker
Which sounds really confronting, but actually people are happy to be asked and they're happy. Like, that you know i mean? You're not giving them thoughts like they've kind of already thought about it. Whereas initially in those roles, I would just think it's too much. Like people,
00:14:03
Speaker
you know, won't want to have those conversations, but weirdly they do. yeah. yeah Yeah, for sure. And I think for me, because in when I was in high school, i had I had doubts and things, but I didn't talk to them, didn't talk about them with people because I thought, like, how terrible, how could I be doubting God, all this sort of thing.
00:14:26
Speaker
so to then kind of have someone be like, actually, i'm going to talk to you about this thing that I'm struggling with and I'm older than you and I'm mature than you I'm For me to go, oh, yeah, okay, I can do that.
00:14:42
Speaker
And that's not, that's actually a sign of wisdom and maturity. It's not, you know, something you have to heart so yeah, I think that was a really powerful thing.
00:14:54
Speaker
I really, yeah, I love that. Like that's just, what an excellent, yeah, I think I had my own periods of wrestling without wrestling. not long after becoming a Christian. And I think what a what a lovely thing for you that you got such a beautiful opportunity to see that mapped out well.
00:15:13
Speaker
Like these questions aren't things to be scared of. Like it's a robust faith. There's things we can wrestle with, but also getting to walk with someone so mature. Yeah. yeah Yeah. and Yeah. God's been very good in people his place in my life for sure.
00:15:29
Speaker
That's great. Could you tell us like perhaps about like a hard season you've walked through and how you've experienced God's faithfulness in that season? I think the one, probably the season of my life that i look back on and go, oh, that's probably so far. and The hardest thing that I've had to face was a season of church conflict that my husband and i went through a number of years ago.
00:15:57
Speaker
yeah he was and is a pastor. So he was pastor at this church where this conflict happened. So I was, you know, the pastor's wife.
00:16:08
Speaker
And it was probably kind of this lead-up period, but I reckon there was about 12 to 15 months of sustained kind of stress A lot of you know behind the scenes stuff that later came out, with about that there was like about a three month break where we thought, oh, it's all resolved, fixed and it's going to be fine.
00:16:35
Speaker
And then and it really wasn't. So yeah, it was it was the first time that I had ever felt really angry at someone.
00:16:47
Speaker
and hurt by someone which you know I mean praise god that I'd got to that point in my life without having experienced that um but yeah first time that I had to kind of deal with that and then dealt with also a lot of fear about what are people ah people going to react to this am I going to lose friends are people going to understand what we're talking about yeah and for long periods of time being like I can't I don't see ah good end. Like how how is this going to be okay?
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah, it wasn't it was not a fun time at all but also a time when, you know, learnt to look to God in a way that I hadn't had to before.
00:17:39
Speaker
So, yeah I learnt a lot about, yeah, so God's faithfulness in that time. It seems to me, I mean, and again, like I haven't been a pastor's wife, I don't know, but from the outside looking in, like it must be quite a tricky role because you know so many things that are happening within the church and so many people in the church are your friends that it would be quite tricky when things aren't going well because...
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, like how you grapple with that and also because like it's often, yeah, your husband is also employed there and it's tied to like your finances and how you provide for your family. Like that, I can imagine that it's a season of church conflict would really cause so many stresses in multiple areas of your life.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really true. Yeah, I think one of the hardest things was not being able to talk about conflict with very close friends who were in the church because it wouldn't have been appropriate and, you know, it's confidential and all that sort of thing.
00:18:47
Speaker
But you almost felt like, you know, people ask you how you're going and you're kind of like, how do I answer that question? Yeah. Like, honestly, inappropriately.
00:19:00
Speaker
And that was actually quite difficult to work out a fair bit of the time. So in one way, when things came to a head and the rest of the church became involved, there was, i mean, that was very scary, but there was a relief in at least being able to say to these friends,
00:19:19
Speaker
this is actually what's been going on in my life for the last, you know, eight months that I haven't been able to talk to you about.
Support During Church Conflict
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah, but I must say God was very faithful in providing outside church sources for me to talk to and that was really important.
00:19:37
Speaker
In fact, Amy Stouffer, who's one of our writers, she set me up with someone else, an older lady from another church to meet up with who was also a pastor's wife who'd, you know, been there, done that, and she was so helpful.
00:19:53
Speaker
Just... understanding what the situation was and bringing a word from the Bible for us to just look at and be encouraged by praying for me.
00:20:07
Speaker
you know, and I hadn't, like I didn't really know her before this. It was totally like we were just set up and then yeah i was like, look, here's my terrible last day of the chance.
00:20:18
Speaker
Please help me. Like, here it is, here are the things. That's right. yeah and So all those lessons I learned about being vulnerable, they really fade off. Especially when you're like, I don't like this vulnerability and you're like, okay.
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah, here it is. Here it is. Yeah. Yeah, so I was really thankful for that. And I think it taught me to come to God in a way that I hadn't had to do before to go, look, yeah, I need your help to deal appropriately with anger, to help me to forgive, to help me to, yeah not become bitter, which was all something very new to me, like that sense, you know, that kind of thing where you have to, it's not something you can just deal with
00:21:08
Speaker
You know, one night you've got to keep on... working at it coming back to it. Yeah. So that was a big warming curve. But it's also the time, i think the one time in my life where i i had been in class at Trinity, we looked at Romans 5, which talks about God's love being poured into our hearts through his Holy Spirit.
00:21:34
Speaker
And was reflecting on that yeah, and so yeah and i had this sense of peace that totally was disconnected to my circumstance. Like there was no earthly reason for me to feel like peace in terms of where the conflict was at.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah, it was just this little gift from God, you know, in that in that moment. It's not like it lasted the whole time. But, yeah, I've always kind of cherished that and held on to that and gone, wow, like that is – That is a real thing that God can give that to you in seasons where you think there's nothing to feel peaceful about here.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, that's definitely a precious thing that came out of that time. That is really, both of those things are so precious because is so precious.
00:22:33
Speaker
sorry but it's so hard when like yeah that like that anger becomes resentment and then like it's bitterness and like trying to like dig that out yeah and forgive it's just so hard like i just don't I can't even think how I would do that without God like I actually am like I'm not capable like I actually cannot but I need to because it's so horrible for me yeah yeah yeah
00:23:04
Speaker
yeah And I think in realising that God, you need God to do it, like, you know, yeah like it's really helpful to go like, oh, actually, this is what Christianity is You know, this is the rubber hitting the road, you know, this Rhiannon can't do this.
00:23:20
Speaker
ah you Yeah, you're like, I'm optimistic. I could do a lot of things. You're like, this one? No. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I can do 27 things in one afternoon, but no, this.
00:23:34
Speaker
I need God's help. like I can take three children to five places. Can I forgive? No. Oh, dear. yeah oh dear
00:23:49
Speaker
But I do also love like what you were saying about peace because I think that's just so true. You can intellectually understand that God promises peace, but sometimes just having that provision where you're like, yeah, this doesn't make any sense that I would feel peaceful, that I could have this, that I could feel okay given my circumstances, and yet here it is.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, it was – Yeah, and that Romans 5 passage has stayed, you know, precious to me since then. Yeah. That's beautiful.
00:24:24
Speaker
I have a question. Was the woman that you met with Meredith of Vanderklift by any chance? It was, a no, no. It was was Irene Kilo. I don't
Handling Conflict and Finding Peace
00:24:34
Speaker
know her.
00:24:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So Amy used to be at Calgary and so i in calorie so and it got Irene Irene. Yeah. She was the one who like mentored Amy, I think. maybe. Yeah, yeah. they Yes, that makes sense.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, and, you know, it was really great that Amy was also able to go, you know, i maybe don't have capacity to do this right now, but here's someone that would be really great for you to meet with and because I wouldn't have found Irene by myself.
00:25:05
Speaker
No.
00:25:08
Speaker
And almost even better that it's someone that you don't know. Like sometimes you're like, look, I don't, yeah, you're like, I i just need to pour all of this out and I would be grateful for any wisdom.
00:25:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, yeah, I had some peers who were really helpful as well, that it was really good to have someone in that more wiser category has been through this, knows what is this is.
00:25:37
Speaker
Can say to you, like, you you will come through the other side of this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Nah, that's that so good. Yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
Now, having been through ah season of that, like, just out of interest, like, you reckon can how you – don't want to say, like, how you passed it per se, it like, because, you know, that's Sam's role.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. And – but I don't know, has that changed the way that, like, you – approach pastoral ministry or in terms of like what supports you have in place or like I don't know like having come through the other side of that and remained in pastoral ministry are there some things that have that you're more intentional about now that you wouldn't have been before
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think, although I'm not doing a good job of it right at this moment, but I think it really did cement to me the value, particularly if you are in ah ministry role or kind of a ministry wife role, of having trusted people outside your own ministry context that you can turn to, particularly for those times when things are tricky or just to be able to get an outside perspective.
00:27:00
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think that's a really valuable, important thing and so I have wanted to maintain that, although I'm not doing a good job of it right now.
00:27:11
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think that that has been a big takeaway. a lot of learnt a lot of things about conflict in general but probably on the scope of relatively short podcast.
00:27:24
Speaker
ah Yeah. <unk> just I mean, like I am interested though. I've been doing Heather Keller, like Proverbs, devotional, because I'm like really need to grow on wisdom.
00:27:36
Speaker
Like what are some ways that you approach conflict differently now than you would have before? think my default position with conflict that I've had forever is to run away from it and avoid it at all costs.
00:27:53
Speaker
So this was definitely a time of you can't do that. You have to engage in this. And so, yeah, I think it's taught me to go actually there are times when you need to engage.
00:28:08
Speaker
So that that's a big thing. um I think we learn a lot about if there's not... a resolution, like if we can't actually come to ah point that biblically you want to come of restoration, forgiveness, reconciliation, if there are some times when you can't reach that point.
00:28:36
Speaker
And that's really hard to accept and think you want to go a long time before you come to that conclusion. But that was something that we had to grapple with and just go, you know, we have to do everything that that we can do work.
00:29:00
Speaker
That's what we can do. So that was, yeah, that was a hard, that's a hard thing. and And then learning not to be but even in that situation, it's not okay to be bitter and it's not okay to harbour resentment.
00:29:17
Speaker
And, you know, all of those things you take to God and you go, look, you are the one who knows all, who judges justly, you knows much more than me, you know, like maybe there are some things that I didn't see about myself that, you know, that God knows, but learning to rest in God's god's ultimate justice, which is, you know, you see that theme all through the Psalms, like it's very a prominent in the Bible and resting in that promise, I think, really helpful.
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah. There's some thoughts. No, that's excellent. I think that's true. Like there are...
Bible's Guidance on Personal Conflict
00:30:01
Speaker
So many resources, it's almost like, it's almost dumb to say, but there are so many resources in the Bible for the dealing with conflict.
00:30:09
Speaker
But like on every level where you're like, okay, I have to deal with stuff. Like I have to own my own things. I'm not allowed to be bitter. But, you know, at some point I can only do what's in my control and I ah can't make other people change or reconcile or do the things if they don't want to.
00:30:25
Speaker
Like it is really nuanced. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah, and praise God that in the new creation, half these things, at you know, God is going to make everything right and yeah that's going to include my heart and if you're talking about conflict with other Christians, like their hearts, we're going to be there to together. so yeah,
00:30:52
Speaker
god's um god God's got this ultimately, yeah. That's a beautiful encouragement. And, you know, maybe if there's a woman who is listening, like, you know, either like a woman who's in ministry and maybe perhaps facing like a period of conflict or someone who's just going through like a long period of conflict, maybe not in ministry, what's a word of encouragement you can offer to them?
00:31:18
Speaker
kind of along the lines of what we've talking about, I think trusting I think both God's love for you in this and that he is but he is working even in this and that you can trust in him for ultimate indication in him. You know, he will bring about so what is and I think especially that's helpful ah in terms of fearing for your reputation, fearing for losing friends, fearing for, you know, people not understanding and to go, well,
00:32:00
Speaker
That's true. People might not understand. It's possible that we lose friends and that's a really sad and hard thing. Certainly that was one of my big fears.
00:32:13
Speaker
But actually it's not the vindication from other people that we look to in the end. It's actually God that we and look too So, yeah, that was really important for me to grasp onto.
00:32:31
Speaker
even as I obviously really wanted to and sought to keep those friendships and a lot of the things that I feared didn't happen. But, yeah, knowing that it's God's opinion that counts in the end.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. yeah
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's it. Like there is, yeah, with a period of conflict, there are so many other things associated with it. But actually ultimately meditating on like who is God and what is he like, that really shows up like, okay, these are these fears that I have placed too high because ultimately like you're saying, yeah, he's going to see everything, he knows everything, he's going to deal with it perfectly and he's not going to leave you.
Vulnerability, Mentorship, and Spiritual Growth
00:33:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So would you nominate for this next? Like who do you think's really encouraging and would be good to hear from? and you know, you're going to throw under the bus.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. um Well, look, you know, any of the people I've mentioned by name so far, basically, I was just throwing them in there. But the person I thought of is actually someone from my church, Rachel Thayer.
00:33:46
Speaker
um I am always encouraged when I chat to her. We kind of have these like we got the kids to church on time. Like we had a high five moment when we both got them.
00:33:57
Speaker
You know, all the kids were at church for the first song and we were just like, We made it. We did it.
00:34:08
Speaker
And, um yeah, so she's great. So she's my, she's my nomination. Oh, brilliant. And tell me, what's something that, I mean, apart from getting places on time and high-fiving, what is it that you love about Rachel? What is the, what is the thing that she does well that encourages you?
00:34:25
Speaker
mean, what more do you need?
00:34:29
Speaker
That she's good at netball. I don't know. Like, um Yeah, no I think she, so they have, her and Jordan have four small children and I really admire the way that she is seeking to be godly in parenting then and in Yeah, in just thinking through how do I do this season of life well.
00:34:58
Speaker
I'm always encouraged when I chat to her and the things that she's been reflecting or, yeah, challenged to go, yeah, actually, you know, i could I could respond better to this situation or all that one So she's always encouraging to chat to Oh, brilliant. That's so beautiful.
00:35:19
Speaker
Excellent. Well, I hope to chat to Rachel. Yeah. Yeah. I reckon the theme for me kind of flowing throughout this interview that I have just really enjoyed is Coming to Christ early, coming to faith early, but the thing that God has like kind of changed and sanctified over your life, because you're like, if I'm really honest with God, you're like, I don't, you know, I be good. But you're like, if I say all these things or if own this stuff that seems too big, like it lives in your head and it's terrifying.
00:35:55
Speaker
But actually sounds like as you've gone along and you've had trusted mentors and like always conflict has forced you to in such a way where you've had to really cry out to God and be like, I don't know how to do this and I don't know how to like, you know, I can't be loving or be the things that you want me to And actually in that vulnerability, like that change has come.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah. And I just love that picture of over a lifetime of like some of those
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, the way that God changes us and we're still who we are, but we're, don't know what it is,
Conclusion and Newsletter Subscription
00:36:35
Speaker
but you know what mean? Like you are, he changes us yeah you to who you we're meant to be. Yeah.
00:36:41
Speaker
yeah Yeah. There is actual growth, hopefully.
00:36:48
Speaker
I mean, me, I'm like, look, I'm tired of learning patience. I'm like, can I learn something else? God, like, no.
00:36:56
Speaker
That's right. Have children and then learn some more patience. Yeah, I really thought that I was a really, you know, I definitely have been in that camp of like I thought ah thought I was, had patience really, the pretty down pat.
00:37:14
Speaker
be wrong no noise you
00:37:20
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed just getting to know you a bit better. ah it's been really fun. Thanks, Meg.
00:37:30
Speaker
That's it from us, friends. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, you can sign up to our free weekly newsletter called Stories I'd Tell You at Dinner. So you get essays, poetry, podcast episodes, everything, photo essays straight to your inbox on Wednesdays from March to November from Christian Women in Western Australia.
00:37:52
Speaker
If you'd like that, the link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, guys.