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Emily & Jess Shine Talent Group Founders - The Life Of Running An Influencer Agency
264 Plays3 years ago
A great discussion about how Emily and Jess scaled their influencer agency.
We talked about..
- The process of picking talent for brand deals
- Visible Influence
- How to attract top level clients and talent and how that works
- The ups and downs of expanding a talent agency in different countries
- The ebbs and flows of being in business for 8 years
Follow Shine Talent Group on instagram @ShineTalentGroup.
Recommended
Transcript
Episode Introduction with Shine Talent Group Founders
00:00:04
Speaker
Bigger talks, bigger talks, bigger talks.
00:00:06
Speaker
We have another episode and oh baby, this one I'm excited about.
00:00:11
Speaker
Shine Talent Group.
00:00:14
Speaker
We help brands shine.
00:00:16
Speaker
And we got Miss Emily Ward and Jess, Jessica Hunnenshin.
00:00:20
Speaker
Did I say it right?
00:00:24
Speaker
They are the founders and CEO and owners of the Shine Talent Group based out of Toronto, right?
00:00:31
Speaker
Canada.
00:00:32
Speaker
We're in Toronto, but we also have a lovely team in LA.
00:00:36
Speaker
So Jess and I float back and forth quite a bit.
00:00:40
Speaker
And we're opening up an office in the UK right now.
00:00:43
Speaker
So rather international, proudly.
00:00:47
Speaker
Well, listen, thank you ladies for being on Bigger Talks.
00:00:50
Speaker
We're definitely going to have a Bigger Talks discussion because I have so many questions about the influencer space, influencer marketing, how you guys got started.
00:01:00
Speaker
So before we get into the details of how you guys help people scale their brand or you help brands, you know, return on investments or however you want to
Founding Story: From Melbourne to Toronto
00:01:10
Speaker
see it.
00:01:10
Speaker
How did you two get together and how did Shine Talent start?
00:01:15
Speaker
Where did this all come from and what was the intentions behind it?
00:01:19
Speaker
Yeah, so it started, we're almost at our eighth birthday, so going on eight years.
00:01:26
Speaker
But I had just recently moved to Toronto from Melbourne, Australia.
00:01:33
Speaker
And I was kind of in Toronto floating around figuring out what
00:01:36
Speaker
the heck I was going to do and was, to be honest, really struggling to find a job.
00:01:42
Speaker
I anticipated that I was just going to kind of go into public relations, which is what my background is.
00:01:49
Speaker
But I really struggled to find a job and through kind of
00:01:54
Speaker
I'll say a bit of happenstance, connected with Emily through a friend of hers that she'd known for years.
00:02:04
Speaker
And she connected with Em and said, I think you'd be really, you know, I think you'd get along really well.
00:02:09
Speaker
I think you're much more suited to PR than what I'm doing.
00:02:12
Speaker
So she connected me with Em and I went and met Emily, whose background is also in PR.
00:02:19
Speaker
So Em had her freelance business.
00:02:22
Speaker
Sorry, Em, I'm kind of telling part of your story, but
00:02:24
Speaker
Em had her freelance business at the time she'd gone, she was kind of in a big PR agency world, had her kids and then started freelancing.
00:02:35
Speaker
And so we kind of connected right at that time where Em had, and you know, anyone who's worked in freelance will know that like, you never want to say no to any job when you're a freelancer, because you're like, is it the last one ever?
00:02:47
Speaker
Somehow you like think that all the time.
00:02:51
Speaker
So Em kind of had like a little bit too much on her plate and I...
00:02:56
Speaker
came along and I was like, I could take some of this off your plate.
00:03:00
Speaker
So we started working together very kind of casually, I suppose.
00:03:07
Speaker
And that was in, you know, I think it was August of 2014.
00:03:13
Speaker
And when we came to kind of the end of that year, we were both doing some freelance work within an advertising agency and we're like, okay, let's set up like a ton of big meetings for the new year.
00:03:22
Speaker
Like, let's see who we can get a meeting with.
00:03:24
Speaker
There was kind of like a game for us.
00:03:26
Speaker
Like,
00:03:26
Speaker
What big companies could we get a meeting with?
00:03:29
Speaker
And we got some pretty big meetings and then we're like, we can't go in as like freelance pals.
00:03:35
Speaker
Like we should present ourselves like somewhat professionally.
00:03:40
Speaker
So that's how we started
Pivot to Influencer Space: Shine's Evolution
00:03:41
Speaker
Shine.
00:03:41
Speaker
So first we were Shine PR.
00:03:43
Speaker
As I said, we both came from PR backgrounds.
00:03:45
Speaker
That was very natural for us.
00:03:47
Speaker
So we started as Shine PR and it was only a few months into that, that we kind of started really looking at the influencer space.
00:03:56
Speaker
And it came primarily out of us running a number of like smaller events to kind of promote Shine and the launch of Shine.
00:04:04
Speaker
And with that, we invited all at the time, like the OG bloggers
00:04:08
Speaker
um so like we see the value that that they have um and we we want them at our events and at the time they were kind of more the like you know c d e list media for like compared to traditional media so we were like come to our events we see what you're doing we want you guys to be promoting shine and what we're doing
00:04:30
Speaker
So it started very kind of naturally organically from there.
00:04:34
Speaker
And we're like, no one's really tapping into like this influencer category in Canada at all.
00:04:42
Speaker
We see, you know, all of these influencer talent or these content creators saying, we know that what we're doing is very valuable, but we don't know how to ask money.
00:04:52
Speaker
We don't know what money to ask for.
00:04:54
Speaker
And the brands on the flip side and then other PR agencies were saying, we know we need to work.
00:04:59
Speaker
with social talent.
00:05:02
Speaker
but we don't know what to pay them.
00:05:03
Speaker
Do we have to pay them?
00:05:04
Speaker
We don't pay a journalist.
00:05:06
Speaker
How do we work with them to make sure that they deliver our clients' brand messages?
00:05:12
Speaker
And so we kind of thought we can sit really perfectly in the middle here.
00:05:16
Speaker
We understand both sides really, really well.
00:05:19
Speaker
And more than anything, we truly understand and see the value in influencers.
00:05:24
Speaker
So with that, Shine Influencers was born and we became Shine Talent Group
00:05:31
Speaker
like two years ago, a year ago, two years ago, sometime.
00:05:35
Speaker
I feel like we just evolved the name when, you know, we were really looking at like what we do now today and like the service offering and the talent who we represent today versus, you know, eight years ago, like has like evolved and really, you know, looking at them as talent as a whole and kind of giving opportunities beyond like just the social space felt right.
00:06:00
Speaker
So,
00:06:00
Speaker
So yeah, no, it's been quite the journey.
00:06:04
Speaker
You guys got in on the front end of this whole influencer marketing campaign, brand deals.
00:06:10
Speaker
You said a lot in that, Jess, that I think I want the listeners and the people who are going to be watching this to really pay attention to as a whole is that, you know, I always say relationships run the world, right?
00:06:22
Speaker
all because of a relationship or referral, you guys came together and look what you guys created.
00:06:27
Speaker
And I think it's not enough emphasis on that, that this is how Shine Talent Group or Shine PR started, all because of a connection from a relationship that you guys had.
00:06:39
Speaker
And I think people don't understand that, always say relationships are more than money, right?
00:06:44
Speaker
You can't make money, but you can't always have the relationship.
00:06:47
Speaker
But if you always have the relationship, you probably can always make some money.
00:06:51
Speaker
And I just want to say thank you, too, for joining forces and creating an infrastructure for people like myself and others to get brand deals, to have opportunities.
00:07:01
Speaker
On top of that, I also I'm into astrology.
00:07:05
Speaker
So what are you ladies' signs?
00:07:07
Speaker
And who is the big picture person and who is the detail person?
00:07:10
Speaker
How do you guys work together?
00:07:14
Speaker
I'm a Virgo, so I'm a September baby.
00:07:19
Speaker
And Jess, you're a tourist, right?
00:07:21
Speaker
I'm like the most non-Pisces Pisces that's ever been born.
00:07:25
Speaker
I look all the time and people are like,
00:07:28
Speaker
well, what's your like moon sign?
00:07:29
Speaker
I'm like, I'm just, I think I was switched at birth.
00:07:32
Speaker
Like I wasn't born on this date.
00:07:35
Speaker
I'm not a Pisces in my soul.
00:07:37
Speaker
When's your birthday?
00:07:38
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:07:39
Speaker
My birthday is March 14th.
00:07:40
Speaker
Oh, I'm a Pisces.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like a true Pisces.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I just like- Virgos and Pisces get along because it's the opposite.
00:07:49
Speaker
Opposites attract.
00:07:51
Speaker
There's so many people in my life, in my family, of course, Virgos.
00:07:54
Speaker
So I understand Virgos.
00:07:55
Speaker
They're analytical, they're logical, they're practical, they're the fixers, like structure, perfectionist.
00:08:01
Speaker
And we're more like free spirit.
00:08:03
Speaker
We want to help.
00:08:04
Speaker
We want to add.
00:08:05
Speaker
We're intuitive.
00:08:06
Speaker
So it all makes sense.
00:08:09
Speaker
But Shine, how did that name come about?
00:08:12
Speaker
Whose idea was that?
00:08:14
Speaker
Cause I think that's a great name and it's so simple and common, but why shine over
Behind the Name: Why 'Shine'?
00:08:20
Speaker
anything else?
00:08:20
Speaker
How did that come about?
00:08:22
Speaker
We like batted around a couple other names.
00:08:25
Speaker
Like I know like spark was something that we had like talked about, like the idea of like, like igniting, you know, an idea igniting like programs, but it was, it was taken.
00:08:38
Speaker
And then I feel like shine, it was like,
00:08:41
Speaker
floating around us a lot like that word like I feel like there is a lot of a lot of talks about you know shining shine sunshine there is like a lot just I have like very like you know shiny sunshiny personalities and
00:08:57
Speaker
very much a contrast to the agency that we were both like working at at the time.
00:09:02
Speaker
So yeah, no, it just kind of came about and I think, you know, we said it and it just felt like really right, but it wasn't something that we like sat down and like listed out a hundred names and,
00:09:17
Speaker
you know, really try to center on something that way.
00:09:20
Speaker
It was just something that like felt right at the time.
00:09:23
Speaker
And we had looked at like maybe one or two other names beforehand and it was more practical than anything that those names were taken.
00:09:29
Speaker
So I came up with this other name and, and yeah, it clicked and it felt really right.
00:09:35
Speaker
That's beautiful because shine is such a authentic name.
00:09:39
Speaker
Right.
00:09:39
Speaker
You can't.
00:09:41
Speaker
There's no in between with the word shine.
00:09:43
Speaker
It was like, we get it.
00:09:44
Speaker
We're going to shine.
00:09:45
Speaker
And I like to say words have power and words have meaning.
00:09:49
Speaker
Right.
00:09:50
Speaker
So I feel like when you say your company name is shine, I think that's what has to happen.
00:09:56
Speaker
We have to shine.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, I'm telling a group my talent is going to shine.
00:10:01
Speaker
We help brands shine.
00:10:03
Speaker
So on the brand side and the talent side.
00:10:06
Speaker
First, I want to ask a more personal question from both of you guys perspective.
Empowering Work Environment and Female Workforce
00:10:11
Speaker
What is you guys take and intentions on women empowerment in diversity?
00:10:20
Speaker
Cause when I went down, I think your company's list, I think you had a lot of women working in your company.
00:10:25
Speaker
So is this like women focused?
00:10:27
Speaker
Cause there's an agency that help women entrepreneurs get on podcasts, it's called Scouts Agency.
00:10:33
Speaker
And it's just women, right?
00:10:36
Speaker
Which is fine.
00:10:37
Speaker
But I'm just curious from you guys' general perspective, is that one of you guys' intentions is to help women shine and be empowered?
00:10:44
Speaker
Not from a talent space, but more so from like a personal space and place.
00:10:48
Speaker
Well, I think we like, of course, but it wasn't something that we set out in terms of like a pillar of the company to do in terms of an intention of the company from the start back at like Shine PR days.
00:11:03
Speaker
And why I think Jess and I like bonded so easily in terms of work is that we were both like pretty tired of the way that a lot of like the PR agencies and marketing agencies
00:11:17
Speaker
would work and motivate work at that time.
00:11:20
Speaker
It was, you know, PR agencies, they can be pretty like mean.
00:11:25
Speaker
And it just didn't work with either of us.
00:11:27
Speaker
Like, I just don't believe that you get the best work out of people coming at them harshly or kind of like leading heavy from the top.
00:11:35
Speaker
It just didn't feel great to us or even like being on the agency side with working with clients who are, you know,
00:11:43
Speaker
kind of jerks and pressuring results versus being collaborative.
00:11:50
Speaker
So I think in terms of women empowerment, it was more that we were going out to create a company that we were surrounded by people
00:12:00
Speaker
who like we really like loved and adored and like who were trying to operate like in kindness and do good work together.
00:12:07
Speaker
And that was the same thing that helped to, you know, lead what kind of like clients we would work with and what kind of, you know, talent that we would work with.
00:12:17
Speaker
It so happens that a lot of our team members like are female and it's not that we've ever like set out to do that as a majority female company.
00:12:27
Speaker
But I feel like it's just been the people who have been like attracted in like thus far to wanting to kind of join on in the ones who have like worked out well to this point.
00:12:36
Speaker
But we love men too.
00:12:37
Speaker
And we are very happy to have, you know, men part of our organization.
00:12:42
Speaker
No, I get it.
00:12:43
Speaker
I just, cause I don't like to assume things without knowing because sometimes we need more women in power to be empowered by other women, right?
00:12:51
Speaker
If you don't have the blueprint as a woman, or even as a man,
00:12:56
Speaker
how do you know how to be, right?
00:12:58
Speaker
I'm pretty sure y'all been in situations where there was neglect or rejection or resistance via men and women working in PR, right?
00:13:08
Speaker
So I'm also, I like to be clear about everything when it comes to like people because I think women don't get their just due, right?
00:13:18
Speaker
They don't get their just due of who they are and what they can do.
00:13:23
Speaker
And I think having a predominantly women workforce or task force for shine group says a lot about what women can get done.
00:13:30
Speaker
Look, I've gotten a lot of deals.
00:13:33
Speaker
I always say women will get you
00:13:37
Speaker
to the money.
00:13:38
Speaker
Women know how to get you in the door.
00:13:40
Speaker
Guys that get you to the party, women will get you to the door, get you in the door.
00:13:45
Speaker
And I think it's important for as a man and women to understand the power that both carry and have and how we can work together.
00:13:54
Speaker
Now, as far as brands, how do you guys
00:14:01
Speaker
How do you guys get your opportunities?
00:14:03
Speaker
How do brands reach out?
00:14:05
Speaker
I mean, you guys have been in business for eight years.
00:14:07
Speaker
Is it a competitive market?
00:14:09
Speaker
Do you work with other agencies to help scale your influencers talent?
00:14:14
Speaker
Like,
Client Relationships: Ensuring Win-Win Deals
00:14:15
Speaker
how does that work?
00:14:15
Speaker
Like, how do you attract these opportunities and why do brands wanna work with Sean Talent Group?
00:14:21
Speaker
Is it the talent or is it more so how you guys conduct your business?
00:14:25
Speaker
I mean, I hope it's both, right?
00:14:27
Speaker
Like I think, you know, no question, we're incredibly proud of the roster of talent we have.
00:14:32
Speaker
Like they are top tier, number one, incredible 10 out of 10.
00:14:37
Speaker
We love them.
00:14:37
Speaker
And we wouldn't represent them if we didn't, I guess.
00:14:39
Speaker
And I'm sure every agency would say that.
00:14:41
Speaker
So, you know, no question when brands come to us, they're like, oh, you guys have killer, killer talent.
00:14:49
Speaker
But I find, and you know, we have in our team Slack channel, we have a team Slack, we have a wins channel and we talk all the time about like, and they're literally like some of them are teeny tiny wins and it will be as much as like someone saying something in an email.
00:15:06
Speaker
so much of what I see there is like a brand or an agency saying to us, like your team was so amazing to work with.
00:15:13
Speaker
Like, I cannot speak highly enough of that.
00:15:16
Speaker
So I, I want to say it's kind of twofold.
00:15:18
Speaker
Like sometimes they come for the talent, they stay because their experience is really good.
00:15:22
Speaker
Like our team,
00:15:23
Speaker
are amazing.
00:15:26
Speaker
Or then they might come back for the team and they're like, oh my gosh, you have even more incredible talent now.
00:15:32
Speaker
So I think like, I truly don't think they work without the other.
00:15:36
Speaker
Like you can have amazing talent if you hate working with the agency.
00:15:39
Speaker
Like it's a nightmare.
00:15:41
Speaker
Like it sucks, right?
00:15:42
Speaker
It's like you want to work with this amazing person on the other end of it.
00:15:45
Speaker
Like, I got to go through like, I got to kind of go through the mud to like get to them because I've got to work with their agent.
00:15:52
Speaker
And we hear that all the time from people's like experiences in this space.
00:15:57
Speaker
So I think they kind of, you have to have both sides.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I think our team do that really, really well.
00:16:06
Speaker
And you contribute having leverage from coming from the PR space that you guys have advantage, not over most, but semi advantage because you come from that world.
00:16:17
Speaker
So you kind of know what they're looking for.
00:16:19
Speaker
You kind of understand what their point of view is because like for me,
00:16:24
Speaker
being in that social space, like I kind of understand what brands look for.
00:16:28
Speaker
I know what they want and I know what they need.
00:16:30
Speaker
So a lot of my deals come via, I track them, right?
00:16:33
Speaker
But I don't know what I'm putting out, I'm intentional.
00:16:36
Speaker
So you guys been in the PR space, I'm pretty sure subconsciously, you probably know things without knowing that you know it's going to work.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, we know how to weave a story really, really nicely.
00:16:47
Speaker
And as Em touched on before, the intention that we go into every deal with
00:16:54
Speaker
is like we want every party to come out as a winner.
00:16:57
Speaker
So like this is not like, and you know, I'm sure you've dealt with this before that there'll be, you know, something will go wrong in a collaboration.
00:17:04
Speaker
It happens all the time.
00:17:06
Speaker
And where you could fall back on the contract and say, well, as per the contract, A, B, C, D.
00:17:15
Speaker
we don't really find that strategy works for us.
00:17:18
Speaker
And we want to say like, okay, so sure, the contract might say this, but like, you're going to be super unhappy if that's the direction that we really push here.
00:17:26
Speaker
Are you going to come back to us again?
00:17:28
Speaker
Are you going to come back to this talent again?
00:17:30
Speaker
Probably not.
00:17:31
Speaker
And we're certainly in this for the long game.
00:17:33
Speaker
So we're constantly trying to problem solve to a point that everyone comes out feeling like they won and not
00:17:41
Speaker
not trying to like pull the wool over anyone's eyes with that strategy, but genuinely trying to find a way that we're like, okay, what if we shift a little here and a little there, and then this feels good for you and it feels good for you, right?
00:17:52
Speaker
So are we all happy here?
00:17:53
Speaker
And do we want to move forward like that?
00:17:56
Speaker
So trying to like very genuinely find an outcome that everyone feels really good about has been part of our strategy truly from day one.
00:18:07
Speaker
And I think that is why agencies and brands will keep coming back to us because like they know we're not, one, we're not in it for like a quick buck.
00:18:15
Speaker
Like we're just not.
00:18:17
Speaker
We want programs to go very well, both for the talent and for the team and for the brand or agency.
00:18:24
Speaker
And I think that you need to be collaborative to work.
00:18:29
Speaker
to come to those
Collaboration and Communication with Partners
00:18:30
Speaker
resolutions.
00:18:30
Speaker
I think it's pretty different to like compared to what people's experience was of working with talent management, like talent agents, like on the entertainment side.
00:18:41
Speaker
And I think the influencer space, like as a whole, like not just our agency, I think a lot of like the social talent agencies operate more in that collaborative space.
00:18:50
Speaker
Cause like, that's like the nature of the business.
00:18:53
Speaker
But I think people's impressions beforehand of talent managers, talent agents,
00:18:57
Speaker
we're more from like the entertainment world where like the agent's gonna like squeeze, you know, the brand for like as much money, like as possible.
00:19:05
Speaker
I feel like there is like something that we had to kind of, you know, move through together.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I think because of Jess's and my experience, like working at agencies,
00:19:16
Speaker
our team is trained really well to know how to be like a partner with the agencies and help give them the information they need to get, you know, approvals or get, you know, alignment from their brand client.
00:19:29
Speaker
So there can be a, there can be a lot of players in a collaboration, not just talent to brand.
00:19:36
Speaker
Sometimes it is, but like a lot of times there's like lots of different agencies and people who,
00:19:41
Speaker
who have different kinds of motivations or markers they're trying to reach.
00:19:45
Speaker
And Jess and I, like from our past experience, we get that.
00:19:49
Speaker
So I think our team is trained really well on being able to speak everybody's language.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's important.
00:19:56
Speaker
My thing when I'm working with a brand or talent, anybody, if we all win, we all win.
00:20:03
Speaker
It's not a me thing.
00:20:04
Speaker
It's not a I thing.
00:20:04
Speaker
It's a we thing.
00:20:05
Speaker
You have a job, you have a life, you have relatives, family, emotions, feelings.
00:20:11
Speaker
So I want to make sure you feel good.
00:20:12
Speaker
This is in alignment with what you believe.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I always tell people, I'm not a diva.
00:20:17
Speaker
You can tell me if you don't like something.
00:20:19
Speaker
Because it's a collaborative effort.
00:20:22
Speaker
It's not just what I think, it's what we think for the big picture of the campaign.
00:20:27
Speaker
Because once it's done, it's done.
00:20:28
Speaker
And it's also always tell people, I don't always have to be the person in the deal.
00:20:33
Speaker
Like if you say, for instance, you guys need help getting a client or talent for something and you might not have someone on your roster.
00:20:39
Speaker
Like, oh, you guys can reach out to me.
00:20:42
Speaker
I have a list of people like, here you go.
00:20:45
Speaker
Because what's the point of having relationships if you can't utilize them, right?
00:20:48
Speaker
Totally.
00:20:50
Speaker
The old ideal that you said with agents and managers and plan for keeps and being selfish and trying to squeeze, it's like you don't keep those relationships longstanding because it's an I thing.
00:21:03
Speaker
It's like, no, I want to scale forever.
00:21:05
Speaker
I want to be able to work with sharing talent group forever if I'm exclusive or non-exclusive.
00:21:12
Speaker
How can we help each other?
00:21:13
Speaker
And I think in this influencer space, as it becomes oversaturated, at least for influencers, everyone's trying to one-up everyone, some of us, but everybody can win.
00:21:25
Speaker
Everybody can have a piece of the pie.
00:21:26
Speaker
There's a lot of work out there.
00:21:28
Speaker
So yeah.
00:21:29
Speaker
So, you know, it's a thing that I think about
Authentic Influence vs. Follower Counts
00:21:34
Speaker
a lot.
00:21:34
Speaker
And like I said, I get a lot of different agencies that come across and, you know, I've been part of the bachelor world and people need access to talent that I might know personally, like, here's his email, here's his phone number.
00:21:48
Speaker
I'm not going to be like, oh, you're going to work with me?
00:21:51
Speaker
Because it's a big picture.
00:21:52
Speaker
I look at five years, three years, two years from now, right?
00:21:56
Speaker
Who knows?
00:21:56
Speaker
Say, if someone, your equity company invests $200 million in your company.
00:22:03
Speaker
and you guys really scale.
00:22:05
Speaker
And then you really have opportunity, but people don't think of those things because they're all about self.
00:22:11
Speaker
But I like how you guys said that is, because one of my questions was, is it more about the brand or is it more about the talent?
00:22:18
Speaker
And I think you both answered that question because I had a...
00:22:22
Speaker
I don't know if you heard of Influential.
00:22:25
Speaker
I think they're part of the agency.
00:22:27
Speaker
And I've done a lot of work with them, but I had an opportunity to talk to Fidelity.
00:22:32
Speaker
They wanted to work with influencers on a campaign, and they wanted to know how they should go about it, right?
00:22:41
Speaker
And I always ask people and tell people, listen, at the end of the day, you guys are booking a talent.
00:22:47
Speaker
These are the people, if you have kids, if you have children, you have family members, these are the people that are getting the deals that has the opportunity to push out.
00:22:54
Speaker
So whoever's your child or your significant other, they're influencing you.
00:23:00
Speaker
So I always think about like, am I booking this person because of their followers, their engagement, or am I booking them as a person for who they are?
00:23:10
Speaker
And so from you guys' perspective, what is it really about?
00:23:13
Speaker
Like, you can be transparent, like sometimes it's really about the numbers, right?
00:23:17
Speaker
Because it's the bottom line.
00:23:20
Speaker
And sometimes we really want the right person that fits this brand because we just don't want anybody.
00:23:25
Speaker
Like, how do you guys gauge that and what works best in you guys' mind?
00:23:31
Speaker
I think as you said, like it can be a bit of both and it really depends on like what the goals are for that campaign to begin with.
00:23:39
Speaker
So understanding like what kind of impact do we want to have here?
00:23:42
Speaker
And sometimes it is like, sometimes it's like we need to get this
00:23:46
Speaker
product, service, whatever it is in front of as many eyeballs as humanly possible.
00:23:51
Speaker
It is purely an awareness-driven campaign.
00:23:54
Speaker
And then it might be just like pure vanity metrics.
00:23:57
Speaker
Like what impressions are you getting?
00:23:58
Speaker
How many likes are you getting?
00:23:59
Speaker
How many comments are you getting?
00:24:00
Speaker
Like that's important.
00:24:02
Speaker
But then you can look at like other types of influence.
00:24:05
Speaker
We've talked about this in the past, like the people who influence the influencers, right?
00:24:11
Speaker
Like who are those people?
00:24:12
Speaker
So like if you book a campaign with one of those people, yes, you'll get like their audience, but who else's audience do you kind of get as a natural byproduct of that?
00:24:24
Speaker
And then I'm, you know, I feel like people are talking now about people with invisible influence and like, what does that mean?
00:24:29
Speaker
It's like, who are the people that like will drive the traction that you don't necessarily see in the metrics.
00:24:35
Speaker
So, you know, again, like, you know, you can look at saves, shares, likes, comments, all of this kind of stuff.
00:24:42
Speaker
But what we will never, I mean, not yet, be able to is, you know, if I see something on your page and I'm like, oh, that's cool.
00:24:50
Speaker
Like, I kind of want to try that.
00:24:53
Speaker
I don't know.
00:24:53
Speaker
I want to buy that shirt you're wearing.
00:24:55
Speaker
And instead of being like, okay, follow link, put in code Eric 20, like instead of like going down that rabbit hole, I'm like at the mall the next week and I'm in the store and I'm like, I'm going to buy it.
00:25:07
Speaker
Right.
00:25:07
Speaker
Like there's no way of measuring that.
00:25:10
Speaker
Like I'm not saying to the sales associate, like,
00:25:14
Speaker
you enter Eric 20 here like that doesn't work like that um so I feel like there's something to be said as well for that and I think you know we we represent a lot of talent who are who are like that and they'll get a lot of dms from their audience saying like hey I bought that um cleanser that you recommended I'm loving it so like our talent will like send us those little screenshots so that we can show them
00:25:37
Speaker
to brands and agencies when they want to book them.
00:25:40
Speaker
And so this is the kind of impact that they have outside of what you might see.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that, I don't know if you guys coined that, but invisible metrics, I think that's what you said.
00:25:51
Speaker
I think I did not.
00:25:53
Speaker
I would very comfortably put that out there that I did not coin that.
00:25:56
Speaker
I read it.
00:25:57
Speaker
I mean, I've never heard it.
00:25:58
Speaker
And so I'll give you guys an example.
00:26:00
Speaker
Five years ago, I had a campaign with a big company and they were pushing back.
00:26:04
Speaker
So I said, you know what?
00:26:05
Speaker
You guys can have the money, I'm good.
00:26:07
Speaker
with a nice piece of money.
00:26:09
Speaker
And I was like, okay.
00:26:10
Speaker
And he's like, no, no, no.
00:26:11
Speaker
I said, listen, you guys, because I always try to tell people like, yes, people have followers, but I tell people for me, you're not only paying me for my followers, you're paying me for who I am, right?
00:26:21
Speaker
The work I do behind closed doors to become a better human being, a better person and trying to scale myself.
00:26:28
Speaker
Because like you said, when my photo or picture is in Target or somewhere, you don't see how many followers are next to my face.
00:26:35
Speaker
Right.
00:26:35
Speaker
You don't see that the code to get the shirt.
00:26:39
Speaker
You just see the person with the shirt on or whatever it is.
00:26:42
Speaker
And a person wants to buy.
00:26:43
Speaker
And I think I don't know what type of conversations you have with your talent, but I always try to tell people who want to get into the influencer space.
00:26:51
Speaker
Like think about it from who you are as an individual, right?
00:26:55
Speaker
And what are you passionate about?
00:26:56
Speaker
What do you love?
00:26:57
Speaker
What do you give meaning to?
00:26:58
Speaker
Because if we just make it about followers and likes and shares and we're not thinking about the integrity of humans and what we say and how we say it, then why would a brand want to work with you?
00:27:09
Speaker
I know a lot of guys and gals who have hundreds of thousand followers, but what they're given on their social doesn't, you know,
00:27:21
Speaker
It doesn't contribute to what a brand would want for their niche, right?
00:27:25
Speaker
And they don't understand.
00:27:26
Speaker
Well, I got a million followers.
00:27:27
Speaker
I got 600,000.
00:27:28
Speaker
I got 700,000.
00:27:28
Speaker
But sometimes people look at numbers and they don't look at the intangible stuff that you can't buy, that you can't represent.
00:27:36
Speaker
So I think that's- I think that's the difference in like, do you want to build-
00:27:42
Speaker
your followers or do you wanna build your community?
00:27:45
Speaker
And that's like the real like difference there, right?
00:27:47
Speaker
Because like, and we talk about this all the time, like someone with 50,000 followers, but with like this like wildly dedicated community can be like way more valuable and more cost-effective than working with someone with a million followers.
00:28:02
Speaker
But like that person who has like harnessed that community and like keeps like giving and giving and giving back to them instead of trying to just like take, take, take from them is often going to like move the needle a lot more than like those like big follower people.
00:28:17
Speaker
So we, we try and educate brands on, on that.
00:28:21
Speaker
It's funny.
00:28:21
Speaker
It was just making me think though, because I feel like we used to have this conversation like a ton more a few years ago.
00:28:27
Speaker
And we would talk about
00:28:28
Speaker
like the micro data that you can get from the social influencer space and how it's like, it's like so different than any other kind of form of marketing where you can't, we'd give the comparison often to billboards that you couldn't really track how many people were seeing a billboard like on a road and how many people went and made a purchase decision because of that billboard.
00:28:50
Speaker
And we would say, you know, in years past, you know, marketing tactics were more evaluated, like
00:28:55
Speaker
quarter by quarter on sales, you know, based on the activities that they chose.
00:29:00
Speaker
And I do feel like a lot of the agencies that we worked with got like away from thinking like that.
00:29:04
Speaker
But it's funny because recently I feel like it's come back again.
00:29:08
Speaker
And with a lot more programs from the team, like the team was saying recently, how a lot more programs coming in are wanting to be like partially like affiliate, like basic, a lot of like more like commission-based deals coming back because the brands are kind of
00:29:24
Speaker
you know, taking that step backwards and just kind of looking at the sales conversion of that exact campaign.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, or more like long-term deals because I tell my manager and, you know, my team, I say, listen, it's great to have trust to want to work with your AT&T, right?
00:29:40
Speaker
But once the deal is up and the campaign is done, it's done.
Body Confidence and Mental Health Awareness
00:29:44
Speaker
Now that it's on to, it's like being an actor, right?
00:29:46
Speaker
Oh, what's next?
00:29:47
Speaker
When's the next commercial?
00:29:48
Speaker
So I'm into how can we be an ambassador role, right?
00:29:52
Speaker
Let's get a long-term commitment because it's like, what's the guy from Verizon?
00:29:57
Speaker
Can you hear me now?
00:29:59
Speaker
Psychologically, we remember him, right?
00:30:01
Speaker
Because he was always in our face, you know, like flow with progressive insurance.
00:30:07
Speaker
So when you have that IP and that type of talent that's consistent, then you make the customer wants to buy more from the brand.
00:30:16
Speaker
Because if I see a different person every time,
00:30:19
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, it's cool, but it really feels like a commercial and you're getting paid for it.
00:30:25
Speaker
But I want to, I want to change the subject just a bit because I was on a website and did some research.
00:30:30
Speaker
You guys are big on, is it body positivity or body confidence?
00:30:38
Speaker
And what is your take on mental health?
00:30:39
Speaker
Because I'm a big advocate for mental health.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, so we use the term body confidence most commonly because we believe that the term body positivity is really a movement that was started by black, fat, marginalized bodies.
00:30:58
Speaker
And like that is a term and a phrase that like belongs to that community.
00:31:04
Speaker
So we body confidence we find and like there's a lot of new words coming in like body neutrality, body kindness, body confidence.
00:31:14
Speaker
I would say like loosely does it fall under the self-love category?
00:31:19
Speaker
Probably yes.
00:31:20
Speaker
Self-love, self-care.
00:31:23
Speaker
But this is a space that we love.
00:31:26
Speaker
We represent some like amazing content creators in this space.
00:31:31
Speaker
And it's so like, it's funny.
00:31:33
Speaker
I feel like, I don't know.
00:31:34
Speaker
I like walk around in life and on the internet with like rose colored glasses, but like, you know how people say they're like, oh, like, you know, Instagram and TikTok, it's like so damaging to your mental health.
00:31:46
Speaker
And obviously like no question it can be.
00:31:49
Speaker
But it's like, it's so interesting to me because it is so much within your control, like who you follow, right?
00:31:56
Speaker
So like, I find that myself, a lot of our team, obviously we follow our talent.
00:32:01
Speaker
So like we have these like cozy little corners of the internet where it's like so friendly and positive and loving and you like learn so much about like how your value is so far beyond like what number on a scale you see and that kind of thing that it kind of, you know, I find myself, I almost like forget that like there is a like,
00:32:29
Speaker
other things that exist on Instagram.
00:32:31
Speaker
What is the term body confidence?
00:32:33
Speaker
What does that actually mean?
00:32:35
Speaker
I mean, I know from my perspective, but I want to know from you guys' perspective, what does that actually mean, body confidence?
00:32:40
Speaker
I think where we fall with it is people who are exploring that their worth isn't attached to their size.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, because I feel like
00:32:53
Speaker
Your word.
00:32:54
Speaker
Oh my God, put this on a website.
00:32:56
Speaker
Your word is not attached to your size or maybe you're picking out.
00:33:03
Speaker
We represent people who, you know, exist in like a big range of sizes who, you know, fall within that body confidence space and like exploring those conversations are like really, really amazing and like really important.
00:33:20
Speaker
So that's where our
00:33:21
Speaker
That's where we have found language that makes sense to us.
00:33:26
Speaker
And it's important.
00:33:28
Speaker
I was telling them, I had a few clients this morning, and I was telling them, I said, you know, your body loves you.
00:33:34
Speaker
And they chuckled.
00:33:35
Speaker
I'm like, no, your body loves you.
00:33:36
Speaker
Your body loves you unconditionally.
00:33:38
Speaker
Your body will take on anything you give it, good or bad.
00:33:42
Speaker
So the question is, did you love your body?
00:33:45
Speaker
Are you confident in your body?
00:33:46
Speaker
Because it starts with self, right?
00:33:48
Speaker
Self-love, self-care.
00:33:49
Speaker
So I always tell people, your body loves you.
00:33:52
Speaker
Your body will do whatever it says.
00:33:54
Speaker
It's like you're the adult and it's the child.
00:33:57
Speaker
The child is going to look up to the elder or the parent.
00:34:00
Speaker
And when we can come from body confidence and come from that perspective, we can have a more, we can live more in our bodies with more peace and grace and compassion and kindness and love no matter what's going on.
00:34:13
Speaker
I love my body and my body loves me.
00:34:15
Speaker
And I think language is important.
00:34:17
Speaker
That's why I was so curious about the term body confidence.
00:34:21
Speaker
So I love it.
00:34:22
Speaker
You got t-shirts?
00:34:23
Speaker
I know.
00:34:24
Speaker
I know.
00:34:25
Speaker
You guys should have like a seminar on event, you know, put on by your talent group and have a panel discussion.
00:34:32
Speaker
I mean, get some brands involved, you know, by the way, we have that.
00:34:38
Speaker
That was a company that we launched a couple of years ago called the BodCon.
00:34:42
Speaker
So we already did it.
00:34:46
Speaker
We've done it.
00:34:47
Speaker
You've done it.
00:34:48
Speaker
Well, there you go.
00:34:50
Speaker
So for anyone who wants to be a part of Shine Talent Group, how does that work?
00:34:55
Speaker
Do you have to sign exclusively?
00:34:58
Speaker
Is it non-exclusive?
00:35:00
Speaker
How does it work if an influencer wants to be a part of your brand?
00:35:04
Speaker
Is it a vetted process?
00:35:05
Speaker
How do you take on clients?
00:35:07
Speaker
What do you look for?
00:35:08
Speaker
What happened?
00:35:08
Speaker
How does that work?
Selecting the Right Talent: Metrics and Fit
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's a process for sure.
00:35:12
Speaker
So to answer your first question, yes, all of our talent are exclusive to us, which basically just means if a brand reaches out to them directly, they flip it over to us and we then like start the conversation from there or continue the conversation.
00:35:27
Speaker
But we kind of have both sides.
00:35:29
Speaker
So we have a lot of talent reaching out to us.
00:35:32
Speaker
saying I really want to be represented by Shine.
00:35:35
Speaker
We go through like a pretty vigorous vetting process there, looking obviously at the numbers, like it's a part of it, not just not number of followers necessarily, but like what is your engagement rate?
00:35:46
Speaker
How many people are saving and sharing your content?
00:35:49
Speaker
How many people are viewing your stories?
00:35:50
Speaker
Who's engaging?
00:35:51
Speaker
That kind of thing.
00:35:53
Speaker
But then like, what's the style of content?
00:35:55
Speaker
Is there like a gap in our roster?
00:35:57
Speaker
We're like, oh, you know what?
00:35:58
Speaker
We don't have any like parenting skills.
00:36:02
Speaker
talent in like this specific region are we missing a category do we need I don't know so do we are we looking for more people who really talk about mental health are we looking for more people who talk about parenting or travel or beauty or whatever it is um so looking for potential like gaps in our roster or trends that we're seeing that we want to have talent for um and then of course looking at just like
00:36:27
Speaker
What is the style of content?
00:36:29
Speaker
Like, are you keeping up to date with trends?
00:36:32
Speaker
Like how, how much are you posting on TikTok?
00:36:35
Speaker
Are you on Be Real?
00:36:37
Speaker
Are you on this?
00:36:38
Speaker
Are you on that?
00:36:38
Speaker
Like how, like how are you navigating this space?
00:36:41
Speaker
Are you an early adopter of things?
00:36:43
Speaker
Or do you kind of sit back and wait?
00:36:46
Speaker
And then it's, you know, having conversations with, with our team and for every person, every talent on our roster that we bring on,
00:36:54
Speaker
we do depending on who they are a one to three month trial period to just see like are we the right fit on both sides like are we the right fit for you and are you the right fit for us like what is your communication style how are you at submitting content on time like how is this going to like where you know we're very cognizant of shine's reputation in the industry so like we want to be working with talent who
00:37:22
Speaker
can get their content in on time.
00:37:24
Speaker
And, and with that, like people who take this like really seriously, like we, we look at our talent as like you, every single one of you are entrepreneurs, you are building a brand, like how seriously do you take that?
00:37:38
Speaker
And it can be like very fun.
00:37:40
Speaker
Like you can have a lot of fun with it, but like, are you looking at this as like, this is my business, this is my livelihood because that's how we look at our talent and
00:37:48
Speaker
So we want them to kind of share that mentality for sure.
00:37:53
Speaker
So that's kind of like that trial period kind of like works out any kinks there if there are any.
00:37:59
Speaker
And from there we figure out like, do we like you?
00:38:01
Speaker
Do you like us?
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:03
Speaker
Should we get married?
00:38:04
Speaker
Did we get married?
00:38:05
Speaker
Did we make this?
00:38:05
Speaker
Should we move in together?
00:38:07
Speaker
Are we great partners or are we just great friends, you know?
00:38:09
Speaker
Exactly.
00:38:10
Speaker
So how many people do you have on the team and talent total wise?
00:38:13
Speaker
Like in the hundreds, you just got 60, 70, like how many do you work with?
00:38:18
Speaker
Team members?
00:38:20
Speaker
I think we are around 60 full-time team members right now.
00:38:27
Speaker
And I say that loosely because it does like, it does shift.
00:38:31
Speaker
We've been growing.
00:38:32
Speaker
quite rapidly and in terms of talent we are at like 220 yeah like yeah I feel like I I say 200 give or take but I uh I feel like it's like our team now we kind of like go up in multiples of like five or ten now the talent I'm like I feel like I'll say 200 until we're at about 250 and then I'll say we're at 250 like it's
00:38:56
Speaker
Somewhere between 200 and 250.
00:38:57
Speaker
What I can say is that we were never, we never set out to be an agency who is going to represent everybody.
00:39:03
Speaker
We never tried to have the goal of saying, oh, you know, we represent 5,000 talent.
00:39:10
Speaker
Our goal was to take on people who really, we truly believed in and also like not to overload our talent management team.
00:39:18
Speaker
Like we've heard of other models with other agencies who maybe works for them for their goals, but
00:39:24
Speaker
talent managers who are repping like 20 to 30 like talent we don't do that yeah we don't do that at shine like talent managers they rep like 10 to 12 they generally have a coordinator with them it's like the ratio is like you know six to one like it's it's pretty it's pretty strong that way so that's something that we've set out to do so in terms of our growth on both the team member and the talent side it's like very like it's very deliberate
00:39:51
Speaker
And for your talent group as a whole, what do you say is the pros
Challenges and Growth Strategies during COVID-19
00:39:56
Speaker
and what's the cons?
00:39:56
Speaker
Like what's working and what's like your greatest challenge right now overall?
00:40:02
Speaker
There's a lot that's working right now.
00:40:03
Speaker
So I'm like, we had, like COVID was an insane time for business.
00:40:10
Speaker
Like it really was.
00:40:12
Speaker
And I'm so proud of like just how it utilized like all of our
00:40:18
Speaker
our skills as founders as well.
00:40:21
Speaker
Cause like, like Jess and I have always been very, very good at looking at like challenging situations and like finding like the space that we could turn it into a positive for ourselves.
00:40:33
Speaker
And one thing that COVID did is we really invested time in our like training process, our online training process, because we couldn't train people in office the same way.
00:40:46
Speaker
And then that opened up the opportunity for us not just to be hiring people who live, you know, blocks away from our two offices, we could then expand our reach to find some other amazing employees in different states and different areas.
00:41:01
Speaker
And so I feel like that's the part that I can say over the past like little while has really been chugging along and working well.
00:41:10
Speaker
And then the ongoing training within our team as they progress throughout the company, like that's what's seeming to be allowing it to grow at the pace it is and so stably as well.
00:41:19
Speaker
And then things that aren't working, I don't know what they are.
00:41:24
Speaker
Well, we're expanding to a new market.
00:41:27
Speaker
There's always like, you know, things to work out with expansion.
00:41:32
Speaker
So I feel like we're working our way like through those right now, but there's nothing that's like,
00:41:37
Speaker
keeping me up at night right now.
00:41:39
Speaker
Like, I feel like it's all good things.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, it could just be something minor, something subtle, like, oh, you know, trying to get our investors on this side to kind of agree.
00:41:47
Speaker
I don't know, you know, because I know me sometimes when people look at influencers and when you're creating content, they just think you just sit there and you take a photo.
00:41:54
Speaker
I might, I did a brand deal just on like a month ago.
00:41:59
Speaker
I probably took 300 photos, right?
00:42:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:02
Speaker
Probably pick eight of those.
00:42:03
Speaker
No, they pick three of those photos.
00:42:05
Speaker
Totally.
00:42:06
Speaker
But people don't see that, right?
00:42:07
Speaker
You got to get a location.
00:42:08
Speaker
You got to get the outfit.
00:42:10
Speaker
You got to make sure you look presentable.
00:42:12
Speaker
The lighting is great.
00:42:13
Speaker
So basically what I want to give off in this discussion in this moment is that I don't want people to think what you guys do is easy because you have talent and you have brands.
00:42:23
Speaker
I think there was an interview called Fuck Up.
00:42:27
Speaker
Toronto or something like.
00:42:28
Speaker
And y'all was talking about billing and accounting and I think people don't know about those things.
00:42:35
Speaker
They just see, oh, you guys have a talent agency.
00:42:37
Speaker
You guys are doing great.
00:42:38
Speaker
And they don't see the mishapenings or the challenges or the rough spots or the things you have to deal with on a day to day basis.
00:42:45
Speaker
I always want to give people privy to like what goes on in a talent group, you know, as a CEO, as a founder, like you have to push back on or you have to fight for
00:42:54
Speaker
receiving payment on time, right?
00:42:56
Speaker
You might have influencers and you're still waiting for payment from the brand.
00:43:00
Speaker
Like they shot the content has been net 30, but they signed for net 60 and it's net 45 and you still haven't got no money yet.
00:43:07
Speaker
Like what's going on?
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's like so commonplace that like we don't even look at it as a challenge anymore.
00:43:14
Speaker
That's like just this industry.
00:43:15
Speaker
We could have our finance team on for like a whole episode on that.
00:43:19
Speaker
It wouldn't be very exciting there.
00:43:21
Speaker
But I think, you know, we've talked about this over the years and like,
00:43:26
Speaker
we do make it look easy and it's really hard.
00:43:29
Speaker
Like there's, you know, not that we're like keeping ourselves up at night as Em said, but there's so much that goes on behind the scenes.
00:43:37
Speaker
And I think for Emily and I, our roles over the last,
00:43:42
Speaker
Honestly, a year to two years, I want to say, have really shifted as we've kind of brought in our internal leadership team and really invested in like their training, their personal and professional development.
00:43:55
Speaker
That's been like a really powerful.
00:43:57
Speaker
big place that we've wanted to invest our time in and our finances in.
00:44:02
Speaker
So with that, it's changed what our roles are, you know, and the company has grown.
00:44:07
Speaker
So, you know, our managing director, Sam, for example, can take on like a lot of the stuff that we were taking on and we can focus on
00:44:15
Speaker
you know, the expansion to the UK, like other different types of acquisitions, other companies that we're launching, we can have kind of the time and space to focus on them.
00:44:26
Speaker
But we've always said like, we've made this look really easy.
00:44:32
Speaker
And I think we can say that because it has come to us with ease, but we've worked really, really hard to make that happen.
00:44:42
Speaker
Got it.
00:44:42
Speaker
And it's, you know, not only with ease, but, you know, just consistent effort and resiliency, right?
International Expansion Plans: New Markets
00:44:48
Speaker
So when you guys started to talk about or think about expanding the brand and the company, how does that start?
00:44:56
Speaker
Is it, did someone come to you guys and say, I think you guys should expand or you guys, this was a thought out conversation, like, I think it's time to jump.
00:45:02
Speaker
I think we had our ceiling.
00:45:04
Speaker
I think we need to go to the next level and dimension.
00:45:08
Speaker
How does that work and where did that start for you guys?
00:45:10
Speaker
I mean, you say UK, you got LA.
00:45:11
Speaker
How many people you got out here?
00:45:13
Speaker
Are they in office or is more like remotely workers that work for Chantelle and Grip?
00:45:18
Speaker
How does that work in different locations?
00:45:21
Speaker
There's team members who live locally in LA, where our office is.
00:45:26
Speaker
But there's also team members throughout the states now.
00:45:29
Speaker
So it's like, yeah.
00:45:30
Speaker
And the US team,
00:45:32
Speaker
employee count wise, like talent manager count wise is bigger than the Canadian team now.
00:45:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:40
Speaker
More money in the States than they do in Canada.
00:45:45
Speaker
What's going on?
00:45:48
Speaker
There's more content creators, there's more brands, there's more dollars.
00:45:54
Speaker
And yeah, our US team and the Canadian, like both teams are amazing and they work very collaboratively together.
00:46:00
Speaker
Like we're seeing a lot more in terms of trends now of brands wanting to execute across multiple markets, which is,
00:46:08
Speaker
you know, certainly part of the reason for opening the UK office.
00:46:11
Speaker
We believe that a lot of brands that will be able to do business within the UK will be looking to expand into North America as well and vice versa.
00:46:20
Speaker
So really opening up a lot of opportunity is the plan for our talent to do more international global campaigns.
00:46:29
Speaker
And for someone who wants to be in a position of owner of a talent agency, influencer agency, what would be advice or inspiration you would give them before starting?
00:46:41
Speaker
Because you've done it.
00:46:42
Speaker
I mean, eight years in the game.
00:46:44
Speaker
I think what you were saying at the beginning of the interview kind of rings true when it comes to relationships and network.
00:46:54
Speaker
Because I think that's something that
00:46:57
Speaker
like at the beginning when we started Shine, we would take meetings with like absolutely anybody who would take a meeting with us.
00:47:05
Speaker
And it's not that we thought that we were going into every single meeting and we were gonna get, you know, a job, a contract at a bad exact meeting, but we believed in like the power of network and by people like hearing about us and like hearing what we were trying to do and like how that would come like back around.
00:47:24
Speaker
And we still do that like today, like not at like the same intensity that we had to at the very beginning.
00:47:30
Speaker
But I think that anybody who is wanting to start anything, whether it be in the influencer talent management space or otherwise, like you have to like invest time
00:47:41
Speaker
and going out there and meeting with people and not trying to like premeditate that there's gonna be like a cash job at the end of that, you know, coffee date.
00:47:51
Speaker
Like, it's just about like getting out there and like sharing like what you're doing and, you know, also hearing what is like helpful to other people.
00:48:00
Speaker
We had so many meetings, it helped us like hear patterns and shape what was gonna be effective messaging when we entered in the market as Shine influencers originally.
00:48:09
Speaker
We wouldn't have gotten that unless we had the volume of meetings and chats and just trying to put ourselves out there to gather up the information.
00:48:19
Speaker
So basically it sounds like building rapport and just getting in the mix and building and talking to people, networking and seeing where you can help and add value and not from, if I give this, can I get that?
00:48:32
Speaker
You know, I think, like I said, it looks easy, but people don't understand it takes work.
00:48:38
Speaker
It takes effort.
00:48:39
Speaker
It takes time.
00:48:40
Speaker
It takes energy.
00:48:41
Speaker
And also it takes faith when you're believing in what you're doing and having a great partner like you and Jess have together and trusting one another and scaling the brands and business and talent.
Vision for Shine Talent Group's Future
00:48:52
Speaker
Before we get off here, what do you want people to get from Sean Talent Group and what's next for you to like, of course you've expanded but big picture, how do you see Sean Talent Group?
00:49:05
Speaker
Do you see it like a CAA or William Morrison?
00:49:08
Speaker
Like how, what is your idea for what's next and what do you want people to take from you guys at the agency?
00:49:17
Speaker
In terms of what's next, as we've talked about, there's the UK expansion and there's also a little tech
00:49:26
Speaker
venture that we have coming up.
00:49:28
Speaker
I'm like, is that the right way to say it?
00:49:29
Speaker
I'll say that for now.
00:49:30
Speaker
So that's something that we've been working on in our heads for like three years and in reality for about a year and a half.
00:49:40
Speaker
So we have something that we're building that we're very excited to not just use internally, but to like bring to the industry.
00:49:48
Speaker
So that's something that we're very, very, very excited about and we'll be putting a lot of energy behind.
00:49:56
Speaker
And yeah, I think, you know, we will continue as we always have been to be focused on, you know, the professional growth and personal growth of our team and focusing on the culture at Shine and making sure that with our growth that never dissipates and it stays really, really strong.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yeah, there we are.
00:50:18
Speaker
And my focus is.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think like somebody else asked me recently about like a comparative to CAA.
00:50:25
Speaker
And like, I love that thought that we, that Shine could grow to that level, you know, to be at the point that we are able to operate in so many different areas and we're able to use like the skills that we have in talent management and like translate that into different like categories as well.
00:50:45
Speaker
And I hope, my hope with that is that
00:50:48
Speaker
it's always preserved in terms of like people that coming into the company and knowing that they can do business in a kind collaborative way.
00:50:56
Speaker
And I think that it's something we started out to do in the beginning and it would be such like a point of pride to see us like reach even like beyond the CAI level, but always have that being known within our reputation.
00:51:11
Speaker
It would be amazing.
00:51:13
Speaker
I love that.
00:51:14
Speaker
And, you know, before our closing remarks, I just want to say thank you to for being here today, being transparent, being authentic, sharing your ups, your downs, your wins, your losses, just everything within Shine Talent Group.
00:51:29
Speaker
But I would like to say, you know, moving forward, where can we find you?
00:51:34
Speaker
How can we get in Instagram, social media?
00:51:37
Speaker
What's the handle?
00:51:38
Speaker
Can you let people know?
00:51:40
Speaker
By the way, I had an epiphany.
00:51:42
Speaker
I see you writing a book together.
00:51:44
Speaker
I just so see that.
00:51:46
Speaker
Like literally, you know, information changes situations.
00:51:50
Speaker
And I just feel like you have the IP and the wisdom to help people not only scale their company, but their image and their brand with the background of PR in eight years at Shantown Group.
00:52:01
Speaker
So I don't know if that's a thing that's written down on someone's vision board, but book.
00:52:07
Speaker
I see many panel discussions talking about what it takes and what it's like to be in this position.
00:52:13
Speaker
So.
00:52:15
Speaker
Thank you.
00:52:16
Speaker
Well, if it's not on the vision board, it will be added now.
00:52:20
Speaker
But it goes without saying that people can find us on Instagram and TikTok and all the social places.
00:52:28
Speaker
So at Shine Talent Group and website is shinetalentgroup.com.
00:52:32
Speaker
Easy peasy.
00:52:33
Speaker
Easy peasy believe.
00:52:35
Speaker
This was nice.
00:52:36
Speaker
This was fun.
00:52:37
Speaker
Ladies, thank you.
00:52:39
Speaker
Anything else you ladies want to say?
00:52:40
Speaker
Give us some inspiration.
00:52:41
Speaker
Give us some motivation.
00:52:43
Speaker
Whatever comes to mind.
00:52:44
Speaker
Just give it to us.
00:52:45
Speaker
Whatever comes up.
00:52:48
Speaker
I thought you were going to
Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
00:52:51
Speaker
go.
00:52:51
Speaker
I like I will, you know, we've talked a lot about relationships and at the end here about advice for people going into business.
00:53:01
Speaker
And I think this is something that fits for any kind of business or venture that you want to start is that, you know, never be afraid to like ask people for what you want and to ask people for, you know,
00:53:17
Speaker
advice.
00:53:18
Speaker
Like it's like, I can say like the number of people I give advice to is a ton.
00:53:23
Speaker
And I always say like, text me anytime, like I'll send you back a voice note and I'll give, I'll like give you my opinion on anything.
00:53:31
Speaker
But I think that like you and I, I will always have the time for people who do that because I'm like, it takes a little bit of balls to like reach out to someone who you maybe don't know very well.
00:53:42
Speaker
um and and ask for advice or some some feedback or guidance um but I think you'll find more often than not like people are willing to do that if you're willing to ask um so I that would be my my advice is like always always ask for that guidance or advice that's a good one I was gonna say like don't be afraid to try things like
00:54:05
Speaker
We have talked today about all the things that have gone well and had success with the company, but like Jess and I have tried so many different things along the way that like never got off the ground because we, you know, tried it, you know, played it out, got it to a certain point and like recognized it wasn't going to fly.
00:54:22
Speaker
So we dropped it.
00:54:23
Speaker
But the things that have worked for us is because like we're constantly moving and we're constantly trying to make something new work.
00:54:32
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:54:33
Speaker
You hear that people listen don't be afraid to ask help try take a shot you know they say you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
00:54:43
Speaker
You might hit the right one you know and they say it's not the home runs that win the game it's the small ball sometimes we just got to get on base right so yeah talent group ladies thank you you were amazing and phenomenal at the same time and um
00:54:59
Speaker
We'll see you soon in the ether and the universe, social media and all the things.
00:55:05
Speaker
And we're looking for that book that should be coming soon.
00:55:09
Speaker
Well, thank you for having us.
00:55:10
Speaker
This was so fun.
00:55:11
Speaker
We love chatting.
00:55:12
Speaker
You're welcome.