Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger, a podcast dedicated to delving into unexpected conversations with a diverse range of guests.
Speaker: I'm your host, Eric Bigger, and I'm joining you each week to create an authentic space of dialogue about the subcultures of American life.
Speaker: Through engaging discussions with writers, actors, experts, and influencers, we will explore the strength of diversity and the transformational power of vulnerability.
Speaker: So let's dive in and discover the unexpected together on Bigger Talks.
Speaker: Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks.
Speaker: Back again, another episode, and I'm so honored and grateful for my next guest, Debbie Rosenfeld.
Speaker: She is a guide, a mentor, or more importantly, a phenomenal individual, a friend of mine, a client of mine, and she's here with us today.
Speaker: We're going to talk about everything from our team.
Speaker: authenticity, calming the chaos, being your most authentic selves, and dealing with grief and loss and devastation.
Speaker: So Debbie, how are you?
Speaker: Welcome to the Bigger Talks podcast.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: I really, really appreciate it.
Speaker: And I'm so looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker: I have no doubt it's going to be so rich.
Speaker: So rich and wealthy and healthy and it's a miracle.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Before we get into the details of who you are and how you calm the chaos and people like, we have an art.
Speaker: So people listening and watching this as well.
Speaker: Debbie, my birthday is like three weeks ago, March 9th, and she gave me this heart.
Speaker: It's like, can you kind of like speak on this heart, Debbie?
Speaker: And where did it come from?
Speaker: I really love it.
Speaker: Yeah, I can.
Speaker: So this heart came from the Holy Land.
Speaker: And a name of the company that sells these is called Dennehy Designs.
Speaker: And when I saw these, this is my signature, the heart.
Speaker: My business name is CEO from the heart.
Speaker: And it just spoke to me.
Speaker: It spoke to me when I saw it and then said, I'm going to get these and I'm just going to give it away as my signature to each special person that's in my life.
Speaker: And when I got it, I was just like so touched.
Speaker: But what's so beautiful, each heart is very unique and it's made out of olive wood.
Speaker: And again, it's from the Holy Land.
Speaker: So it's from Jerusalem.
Speaker: But what's so special about it, when we just hold it, it just fits right in the palm of your hand.
Speaker: And it just feels good.
Speaker: And I even put mine under my pillow and I had some really cool dreams.
Speaker: Is there a place where we can order these from or get these from?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's called Dennehy Designs, and you can just Google it.
Speaker: And they also make crosses and hearts out of old piano wood or old organs.
Speaker: So they get these organs in pianos.
Speaker: And what they do is they recycle the wood.
Speaker: So they take it apart and they use it purposely.
Speaker: So it's like recycling, but in a very purposeful way.
Speaker: Get into our beautiful portal that we always get into when we train.
Speaker: I just want to read back to you your intentions for any and everybody that comes into your vibration.
Speaker: So on your website, you say, I help leaders calm the chaos through navigating big life changes and loss so they create deep fulfillment in every area of their lives.
Speaker: What does that mean?
Speaker: So what that means is, and it just came through because of my own personal experience.
Speaker: So when I was working, if you will, in corporate America as a CFO, that was just my position, if you will.
Speaker: I had the unfortunate news of learning that my son died by suicide.
Speaker: That was in December 20th of 2008.
Speaker: And it was a huge shock, a huge shock to the system.
Speaker: And so over the last 15, soon to be 16 years, I have just been navigating through life and trying to figure it out.
Speaker: And how does one navigate?
Speaker: And it's a question I ask almost everyone, especially on my podcast, is how does one navigate through loss or tragedy or whatever with grace?
Speaker: And we each have our own path.
Speaker: So I've created, if you will, the path of grace.
Speaker: But what I also recognize is everybody's path is different.
Speaker: And so there's no one way, there's no right way, and there's no wrong way.
Speaker: It's just all about navigating.
Speaker: How do we get through it?
Speaker: What's a better way?
Speaker: It's not get through it.
Speaker: It's how do we literally navigate and allow the fullness of life to move through us as we're, if you will, learning how to create a whole new normal.
Speaker: That's the best thing you could have said in that moment.
Speaker: There's no right way or no wrong way.
Speaker: I don't even have a game, right?
Speaker: Let's take it back just a bit, you know, so when that, you know, tragedy of news came to you, had that in your awareness, what was your first thought?
Speaker: Is this like, is this true at the time when you and your son, you know,
Speaker: total disbelief and like you're in a dream and you're waiting for someone to shake you and wake you up.
Speaker: But when the officer came down to my other son's business to find us and to notify us,
Speaker: And we were all in the same room and he looked at me and he started asking me questions like, do you have a son by the name of Ken Jones?
Speaker: And I said, yes, I do.
Speaker: And clueless, me clueless.
Speaker: And then he says, does he live at 5433 North Pierce Lane in Prescott Valley, Arizona?
Speaker: I said, yes, he does.
Speaker: And still clueless.
Speaker: And then he looked at me and he said, I'm so sorry, but your son died by suicide.
Speaker: And I looked at him.
Speaker: And I said, how would you know?
Speaker: I looked at him because I immediately went into logic.
Speaker: I said, how would you know?
Speaker: Because Kenny lived in Prescott Valley, Arizona, and we were right here.
Speaker: And I literally said that two or three times to him.
Speaker: He said, well, the Prescott Valley police reached out to us to let us know so we could notify you.
Speaker: We were all in total absolute shock, disbelief.
Speaker: You don't know where up is up and down is down.
Speaker: You're just trying to figure out what is going on.
Speaker: Is this really happening?
Speaker: And what was your relationship like at the time of your episode?
Speaker: Did you guys communicate?
Speaker: Like, how was it?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the last time we spoke on the phone was on December 6th.
Speaker: And that's when I was down in San Diego for business, for work.
Speaker: So the company that I worked for at the time, they were a design company and they were also a manufacturer of T-shirts.
Speaker: And so the design company was up here in Boffle, Washington, but the manufacturer was in Tecate, Mexico.
Speaker: And then the warehouse was in Takata, California, so I just was crossing the border to go.
Speaker: And so I had crossed back over to on the U.S. side, and I gave him a call just to talk to him.
Speaker: And he was so excited.
Speaker: He said, Mom, next year I'm going to be coming up for Christmas.
Speaker: I got the time off.
Speaker: And I said, Great, Ken.
Speaker: I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker: And I shared with him that I just had been to a parade for Christmas and stuff like that.
Speaker: Yeah, it was a good conversation.
Speaker: He was excited.
Speaker: And that was the last time we spoke over the phone.
Speaker: Well, the year prior, Kenny went silent for about eight months.
Speaker: And that was like from, I want to say, May of 2007 till about February of 2008.
Speaker: When he reached out and called me, and so he had just gotten a job at Lockheed Martin.
Speaker: And so he called me in February and I hadn't heard from him in those seven to eight months.
Speaker: And so when I saw that he called on my phone, I said, oh, my God, Kenny called.
Speaker: I got to give him a call.
Speaker: And I actually had reservations to fly down to Prescott Valley anyway.
Speaker: I said, okay, now I'm going down because I'm not hearing from him.
Speaker: I want to make sure that he's okay.
Speaker: Yet he called me.
Speaker: And then he came up to Seattle and, you know, we had some great time together.
Speaker: He went down to California to see his dad and stepmom and his best friend and his mom.
Speaker: And then the last time I physically saw Kenny was actually in June of 2008.
Speaker: beginning of July when he came up for a family friend's memorial service, because a dear of which we called him Uncle Terry, and Kenny was really touched because he grew up with them.
Speaker: And so we went to the memorial service, and Kenny was the first one to stand up and talk about Terry in a very heartfelt way.
Speaker: And it moved all of us.
Speaker: And, yeah, so that was really the last time I actually physically saw Kenny was in June, July of 2008.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think for you, you have such a beautiful soul and spirit.
Speaker: I believe your son is with you right now.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, I agree, too.
Speaker: Disbelief comes in times when you need him or he wants your attention.
Speaker: But for the listeners in that moment from getting the news from the officer and then being in like disbelief to him actually transitioning, what was the pivot for you?
Speaker: How did you transition in a way to what was the calmness to your chaos?
Speaker: What was the actually tangible, logical things you had to grow through to kind of like
Speaker: not accepted, but kind of like had ease and grace with it where you can kind of get to the other side and have more peace inside or more calm.
Speaker: I think that happens just over time.
Speaker: But the very first thing that I did the day that we were notified is I pulled out my gratitude journal and I wrote out how grateful I was for the 30 years that I had with Kenny.
Speaker: And that was the first thing.
Speaker: And I knew, I knew it was really, really easy to
Speaker: to go down the dark path.
Speaker: I could feel it in my body, and I said, I can't do that.
Speaker: I don't want to do that.
Speaker: It was painful.
Speaker: I mean, really painful.
Speaker: And so it was just taking one step at a time, one day at a time.
Speaker: And also what happened was
Speaker: I'm one of these doers.
Speaker: So when chaos occurs, I step in and I get stuff done.
Speaker: And so I had a mission and the mission was, first off, we had to get down to Arizona.
Speaker: Well, it was snowing here.
Speaker: Like it was like snowing a lot and the city was shutting down.
Speaker: We couldn't even get flights out.
Speaker: And so my husband, Todd, was into trains at the time.
Speaker: So he would say, let's take the train down.
Speaker: And I looked at him and I said, I don't want to take the train down.
Speaker: We took the train.
Speaker: We had to because we couldn't get out.
Speaker: So just having that support around me.
Speaker: And we took the train down, Todd and I and my other son, Brian, we took the train down to Sacramento.
Speaker: My uncle picked us up, took us to the airport.
Speaker: So it's having the people around us, right?
Speaker: Family.
Speaker: I had at work.
Speaker: It just so happened my sister and my best friend's mother was working there as well.
Speaker: I had a lot of family support around me.
Speaker: And what it means is that it's not that they didn't have to do anything.
Speaker: It was just their presence.
Speaker: Because what we're looking for is we're looking for stability.
Speaker: We're looking for something that we can ground in.
Speaker: And when we have people that just free a container, and it's not that they're doing anything on purpose, it's just their presence is a safe container.
Speaker: And so it's just taking that one step at a time.
Speaker: You do what you have to do.
Speaker: And so because Kenny lived down in Prescott Valley, Arizona, after we had two funeral services, memorial services, one was here in Seattle, one was down in Petaluma, California.
Speaker: The hard stuff was after we had to do is go down, pack up all his personal things.
Speaker: It felt so violating.
Speaker: But we were going through his stuff.
Speaker: You know, he put me in charge.
Speaker: He even put it in his notes that he said, Mom will take care of everything.
Speaker: And he told us what he wanted us to do.
Speaker: And we got one note that had a whole bunch of notes for friends and family.
Speaker: Kenny was someone that took care of people.
Speaker: So he told us what to do with the house, his car.
Speaker: He told us to take some things back to Costco.
Speaker: I said, no, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker: Yeah, there is just so much to do and so much to deal with, and you just do it a little bit at a time.
Speaker: But what also occurred is when I went back to work after coming home from Prescott Valley Inn the first time, I made a note to myself.
Speaker: I said, there's got to be more to life than this.
Speaker: And I wrote on a post-it note, and I still have it in my car, I said, follow your heart to remind me to follow my heart.
Speaker: So that was the beginning of, if you will, disassembling of the old life and learning how to create a new life.
Speaker: And I decided that I wanted to become certified as a coach.
Speaker: I took a leadership program, a year-long leadership program.
Speaker: I needed to dive in and I had to figure it out.
Speaker: And what were you doing private to that?
Speaker: Were you moving to like coaching certification?
Speaker: Were you working in corporate America as a CFO?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So in accounting, if you will, finances, financials.
Speaker: And then in 2017, I had five family members die within a seven-month period.
Speaker: First, it started off with my dad in December of 2016, and then my cousin Bill from esophageal cancer in February.
Speaker: And then in April, my sister-in-law, she was only 46 years old.
Speaker: She died from Hodgkin's Down Lymphoma, but she had been going through chemo treatment.
Speaker: Well, because of the chemo and all the treatment, her liver stopped functioning.
Speaker: And so I've never been through an experience where you support someone through their dying process.
Speaker: And so myself and my other sister-in-law, another Deborah Rosenfeld, who was a nurse, we were there in Walla Walla and to support Jeff.
Speaker: and his mom and dad through that.
Speaker: And then in May, my kitty, Kiki, of 15 years died, and she was the one that helped get me through Kenny's loss.
Speaker: That was a heartbreak.
Speaker: And then my uncle died in June, which was my dad's brother in June from liver cancer.
Speaker: And my thought process was, I've already been through the worst of the worst, so I'm going to be good.
Speaker: Well, that was a lie.
Speaker: The fallacy.
Speaker: So what happens is when we have grief after grief, after grief, after grief, what happens, that's called grief stacking.
Speaker: I was processing it, but I wasn't like talking to somebody about it.
Speaker: I was just going through the motions of helping everybody and doing this and that.
Speaker: Well, finally, I said, you know what?
Speaker: I think I need some help.
Speaker: I talked to my pastor at the time.
Speaker: He gave the name of someone.
Speaker: And so I made the first phone call.
Speaker: And just making the phone call, I felt a huge relief.
Speaker: And that was good.
Speaker: But then I decided a year later to go through some training through the grief recovery method to help people with their grief.
Speaker: It's so good.
Speaker: You know, that was such a beautiful narrative that was your reality at that time.
Speaker: I want to take it back to Kenny.
Speaker: Kenny, such a great soul.
Speaker: And you led the conversation with Grace.
Speaker: And it's interesting.
Speaker: Kenny had the intentions to lead life with Grace.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He left two notes.
Speaker: He left two notes.
Speaker: That's how big of a heart he had to leave even everyone else with directions and guidance.
Speaker: Because he had to do what he had to do for whatever reason.
Speaker: But he left a note.
Speaker: That says a lot about who he was and who he is still.
Speaker: Spirit, you know, like,
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So, Kenny, in his letters, in his note, he said, it wasn't that he was looking for more love, because he felt truly loved by his family and friends, it's not that he needed more friends.
Speaker: But it's like he checked off all the boxes.
Speaker: He was looking for transcendence.
Speaker: To one of his friends, he said to Carlos, I hope you find transcendence.
Speaker: And it's here.
Speaker: I know it's here.
Speaker: Here's something else I believe, Eric.
Speaker: I truly believe that Kenny and I had a soul contract.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: to take my life to a deeper level because in order for us to really transcend ourselves, we have to really experience, well, we don't have to, but experience the depth of life at the deepest, deepest parts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's interesting because I believe that he served his sole purpose.
Speaker: There's another thing that came up when you were speaking as I was listening.
Speaker: You gave me years.
Speaker: And you know, to people who know me, I'm into numbers, right?
Speaker: I'm the numbers guy, numerology.
Speaker: So 2008, you look at 2008, collectively, that's a new start equals one.
Speaker: We do two plus zero plus zero plus eight, 10, which equals one.
Speaker: Your birthday is October 16th?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You got one is six, is seven plus one because 10 and one zero for October equals eight, right?
Speaker: If you plus those years plus one equals nine for your personal year number in those spaces, what nine comes to is completion, right?
Speaker: Because you're about to go into a new year.
Speaker: So here we go.
Speaker: Let me take it even further.
Speaker: 2017.
Speaker: Bus one is three.
Speaker: Seven is ten.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's another one year.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And you add your eight with your one, there's another nine.
Speaker: Completion again, you start a new cycle.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: It's interesting the commonality of like when people are leaving, you are growing into a new energy field.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think most times, depends on how it happens, but I believe most times, even if it's not bad, we mourn someone leaving Earth.
Speaker: And sometimes not even about us, it's about them.
Speaker: And sometimes they want to be celebrated, right?
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: He checked off the boxes.
Speaker: He wanted to transcend.
Speaker: And however way he saw it, it's so interesting that you had to experience that in his lifetime, but you have all the data, all the data.
Speaker: downloads and all the information when dealing with grief.
Speaker: Now, what I want to do now is take it back earlier when you were young.
Speaker: If you can remember, think about a time in your mind when you were a little girl, when was the first time, if you can remember, you had to calm the chaos?
Speaker: And you did it and you didn't know you did it or you was aware.
Speaker: If you can remember.
Speaker: Calming the chaos.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: teenage, it could be younger years before you had kids, it could be whatever to just take you back while you really had the common chaos early on.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a great question, Eric.
Speaker: I'm thinking back, but it's just like I felt like a very lost soul.
Speaker: How I was raised is I was with very strict parents and it was always deferred to my father.
Speaker: I ended up being a rebel.
Speaker: So I'll share a little bit about my human design, which we talk about that as well.
Speaker: A manifester, initiator.
Speaker: And what I've learned is I am not to be controlled.
Speaker: I am here to inform, but I'm not to be controlled.
Speaker: So the things that I would do because I was controlled as a teenager, I would rebel.
Speaker: I would say, I'm not having anything to do with this.
Speaker: Even at the age of, I think it was 18, when I decided to move down to California, I
Speaker: to be with my grandparents just because I needed to get away.
Speaker: I just needed to get out.
Speaker: But I initiated that.
Speaker: I called my grandparents and asked them if I could do that.
Speaker: Another example is I'll go back to when I was four years old.
Speaker: I was told I ran away.
Speaker: And when I learned about myself as a manifester, I'm going...
Speaker: No, I didn't run away.
Speaker: I just wanted to go home.
Speaker: I was with my Uncle Conrad, which was at my grandparents' house.
Speaker: So here in Seattle area, they lived on the west side of Magnolia, and we didn't live too far away from them.
Speaker: And so for some reason, I wanted to go home.
Speaker: I decided I was going home.
Speaker: Four years old, and I remember specifically walking down these really, really steep stairs, because my grandparents had steep stairs at their house, and I just went about my way.
Speaker: So I went through Fort Lawton at the time, which is now called Discovery Park, but Fort Lawton was an army base.
Speaker: I specifically remember being picked up by some kind of an army officer.
Speaker: I remember him wearing his uniform, and I think it was a little black Volkswagen bug.
Speaker: I don't remember anything after that, but I remember everything leading up to that.
Speaker: And so I was just being me.
Speaker: I was just doing what I do.
Speaker: Being your most authentic self.
Speaker: You also said the best thing a person can have in their life is support, right?
Speaker: Having people just in their energy field or their organs.
Speaker: But how does this, what I think happens with some people, how does one be present with the grief when they're losing someone or losing something and they have to move on?
Speaker: Because I feel like most of us,
Speaker: We're not really present in the grief.
Speaker: We're even suppressing it.
Speaker: Like you said, grief stacking or we're not looking at it because it's too afraid to look at.
Speaker: So you working with a client or anyone, how do you get them to be present with what they're dealing with for them not to be so afraid of?
Speaker: How does that work from your perspective?
Speaker: So I just be present with them.
Speaker: And I also remind them there's nothing to fix.
Speaker: They're not broken.
Speaker: And we have believed that we're broken.
Speaker: We're not broken.
Speaker: That's why we're here is to experience the fullness of life.
Speaker: And so it's listening to stories and asking people about their loved one because we just want to hear their name.
Speaker: We want to keep their energy alive.
Speaker: We wanna keep their name alive.
Speaker: I mean, here's a funny thing.
Speaker: When I was seeing a grief counselor after Kenny died, I looked at her one day and she asked me what's going on.
Speaker: And I said, for some reason, I had this notion that I thought I was gonna forget Kenny because he's dead.
Speaker: But those are the kind of thoughts that go through our mind when we're in that shock and disbelief.
Speaker: And she looked at me with a straight face, very kindly, very softly, and she said, Deb, what makes you think you're going to forget Kenny?
Speaker: And I looked at her and I said, oh, yeah.
Speaker: So it's just like she brought me back to reality.
Speaker: And so it's just honoring where we are in the moment.
Speaker: It's being present in the moment with what we're feeling.
Speaker: And so it's just like when I was serving as a chaplain here with our community.
Speaker: When I would be called out on a call, and it usually was on Saturdays because that was my shift, I'm no longer doing that, I would just be present in the moment with what was going on.
Speaker: There was nothing to fix.
Speaker: There were people that were wailing, crying in disbelief themselves, and you just be calm and you just be present.
Speaker: And then you help them with the practical things.
Speaker: If the medical examiner released the family member to the family,
Speaker: I would help them make the arrangements for the funeral home to come pick up their loved one and to start the process for them.
Speaker: But it was just to be with them until family came or friends came or their support system came for that moment.
Speaker: So anytime you're with a loved one or a friend or anyone has just lost somebody, just be present with them.
Speaker: You don't have to say anything.
Speaker: You know, if it's a few days later, just call and check in on them and just say, hey, I'm just checking in.
Speaker: And even get some grief groceries or if their lawn needs to be mowed, just go do it.
Speaker: Don't ask.
Speaker: That's the last thing you want to do is ask them questions because they won't be able to answer you.
Speaker: They won't be able to respond because they don't know.
Speaker: They just can't answer that question.
Speaker: Certain times the groceries you get when you're greeting, is it more like a rule of food?
Speaker: You said something about keeping the energy up.
Speaker: Then as a chaplain, what is the intentions of a chaplain?
Speaker: Because I have my notion and perception of it, but what is it really from you being in it?
Speaker: I see it as a companion.
Speaker: So in the old definition of chaplain is that we would come and pray.
Speaker: I'm there to pray with you if that's what you want.
Speaker: And I had a lot of people that wanted that, yes.
Speaker: But that's not something that we force on somebody because we all have been raised in a different type of spirituality or religion.
Speaker: We even had people who would sometimes push us away because of the old paradigm thought.
Speaker: But we're there just to provide comfort and be a companion in that moment.
Speaker: It's not forever.
Speaker: It's just that very moment.
Speaker: There's times that when we serve as a fire, I've given my tennis shoes.
Speaker: I had some spare tennis shoes in the car and they came out from the fire with no shoes on.
Speaker: I said, would you like a pair of shoes?
Speaker: So it's little things like that, giving them snacks, water, having a dry place for them to come in, in the rig, to be able to call family, provide them a phone so they can call somebody if they don't have their phone.
Speaker: Sometimes Red Cross would come depending on the circumstances, if it was a fire, so there was a dry place for people to come.
Speaker: So it's to serve the individual in the moment, but not for us to push anything on them, because that's not serving.
Speaker: We're there to be in the moment.
Speaker: Now, did you hold this position prior to Kenny transition?
Speaker: That was all a God thing.
Speaker: That happened on October 21st, 2018.
Speaker: It was a Sunday morning about 11 o'clock and I just got home from church and I was hearing these sirens get closer and closer and then they stopped right in front of my neighbor's house.
Speaker: And I said, oh dear, I better go across the street.
Speaker: And then I stopped myself and I said, no, you will know if you need to go.
Speaker: And then all of a sudden, like 10 seconds later, I heard this huge blood curdling scream and I just ran over there.
Speaker: And Eric was on the floor screaming and crying because the paramedics just pronounced his wife had died.
Speaker: And Peggy was a spry woman.
Speaker: I mean, she's 65 years old, very active.
Speaker: I mean, nothing was wrong with her that we knew of.
Speaker: And I just held Eric.
Speaker: I just went over there and I just held him.
Speaker: And he was just sobbing.
Speaker: And then in that case, which I didn't know at the time, but when after the fire department calls, says, pronounce somebody had died, the police come in to do their investigation.
Speaker: Well, at that time,
Speaker: with the police, a chaplain came, and this was Dale.
Speaker: And so I met Dale, and so I was just there to help Eric, but the police were there to do their investigation.
Speaker: Dale was there to serve as chaplain.
Speaker: And so I was there for the whole time.
Speaker: I helped Eric call his sister to have her come up, and I learned a little bit about what a chaplain is and what they do.
Speaker: And so Eric's sister arrived and the medical examiner arrived to pick up Peggy, and I knew it was time to leave.
Speaker: I could just feel it.
Speaker: And I walked out the door, and coming back home, I looked up to the sky and I said, hmm, I wonder what it takes to become a chaplain.
Speaker: And it's history from there.
Speaker: That's when it all started.
Speaker: So I joined Support 7 and been working with South County Fire, and as of the end of December, I resigned.
Speaker: from being a chaplain.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And it's beautiful when we allow life to take us on journeys and we don't understand where it's taking us into a new opportunity or possibility.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Then you said support seven, your birthday equals seven.
Speaker: So it's like, look at the secret initiatives and numbers again.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Now that we know this history of you and being a chaplain and praying and being present, also, you know, you being a manifester, it makes sense.
Speaker: It's like you're there to inform and control.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: In this part of life where you are now, what type of spiritual work have you done to kind of fully embrace where you are to what you're doing right now to get more out of yourself?
Speaker: For your calmness when chaos does happen that you're not expecting.
Speaker: How do you down it in a beautiful, graceful way so you can feel free?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I had the pleasure of being raised with a foundation.
Speaker: And the foundation was, I was born and raised Catholic, and I went to CCD, and I went to a Catholic school and stuff like that.
Speaker: I have that foundation.
Speaker: I no longer follow that methodology, if you will.
Speaker: God is so much deeper than that.
Speaker: God has nothing to do with religion.
Speaker: Jesus has nothing to do with religion.
Speaker: It's having the depth of
Speaker: of going deep inside and knowing that God and Jesus is in us and Spirit is always with us and guides us every single day.
Speaker: We just have to be open to listen and listen.
Speaker: It's just these last couple of years that I've gotten deeper and deeper into the spirituality of listening to God, listening to spirit.
Speaker: I have some wonderful spiritual mentors that too are growing.
Speaker: I listened to Richard Rohr.
Speaker: He is amazing.
Speaker: He has this perspective of beyond the Catholic faith, beyond whatever.
Speaker: It's just so much more depth.
Speaker: And that's what this journey has been all about, is the depth.
Speaker: of life, the depth of really experiencing our humanness.
Speaker: So my belief is we are spiritual beings here having a full human experience and to experience it all.
Speaker: And so even all the hard stuff.
Speaker: And for me, it's been loss and grief, you know, even lost businesses or closed businesses.
Speaker: But there's been experiences that no one can replace because of that.
Speaker: And I can just share my experience and my message with people so they can learn from that as well.
Speaker: It's so great that you said that because we all deal with laws on different levels and different entities in the energy.
Speaker: You said something to me a few days ago, maybe last week, and you said something about the ocean.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Can you just for a bit unpack and elaborate on that ideology that you came to understanding?
Speaker: Because I think it's beautiful for people to listen.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Well, it was actually Natalie that shared that with me as we were having some really deep conversations.
Speaker: But she said, have you noticed that the ocean, the waves are always moving?
Speaker: I just stopped and I said, whoa.
Speaker: That is so true.
Speaker: The ocean is always moving.
Speaker: The waves are always coming in and going out, coming in and going out.
Speaker: Well, it's just like with our heart, how our body functions.
Speaker: Like, the ocean doesn't know that it's moving or not moving.
Speaker: It just is.
Speaker: Our heart is always moving.
Speaker: We're not aware of it.
Speaker: It's just like a fish being in a fishbowl.
Speaker: It has no idea it's in water.
Speaker: But just to have the forethought that the ocean is always moving, it just blows my mind.
Speaker: It's like there's no rest in that.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's like the heart, it talks about the heart is constantly being happy and it's not thinking about it.
Speaker: Because what I just discovered is the ocean as in our heart, within our body, but ever present, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You're allowing things to flow and move and maneuver and then you can take a brief look at your ocean.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: How is my ocean moving?
Speaker: But when we're not present with our ocean, our hearts, we know we're moving.
Speaker: We're just either in autopilot or we're in fear or we're just trying to control or stay busy because we're afraid of what we want to look at, right?
Speaker: And it's just a beautiful thing to know that we're all here to serve a higher purpose.
Speaker: And I think you're serving your higher purpose by being you.
Speaker: With all the challenges, changes, and pains, and breakthroughs, and all of the grief, and everything, you just show up in such a beautiful way that you make the complex easy to understand.
Speaker: Now that I'm having a moral understanding of who you are, I get why you're here to calm chaos.
Speaker: So one more thought I just had as you were sharing.
Speaker: So just the underneath the ocean, like deep, deep in the ocean, it's so still.
Speaker: It's quiet.
Speaker: But what we are to be is have that stillness and quiet inside of us with our little clownfish or yellowfish or whatever beautiful tropical fish that are swimming down deep in the ocean.
Speaker: To bring that beauty and that stillness and quietness inside of us out of our heart.
Speaker: So what's next for Debbie and where is she at now in her life?
Speaker: And like, what's next?
Speaker: I mean, I feel like books, you do have a podcast.
Speaker: Tell us more.
Speaker: Like what's next for Debbie?
Speaker: Oh, gosh, there's so many possibilities, Eric.
Speaker: And that's what I'm really excited about.
Speaker: I really want to do a TED Talk.
Speaker: And a colleague, a friend, did a TED Talk, and she worked with someone.
Speaker: I think his name is Daryl Stinson.
Speaker: So I'm going to check that out.
Speaker: So that's one thing.
Speaker: So I believe speaking somehow.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, you have to speak.
Speaker: But also using my voice in other ways.
Speaker: So I have this phenomenal book that I found when we were down in Malibu called When Things Fall Apart and it's Heart Advice for Difficult Times by Pima Chodron.
Speaker: I actually want to record that in my voice because
Speaker: and be able to offer that to my clients that I work with.
Speaker: So anything and everything is possible.
Speaker: I'm just really, really excited.
Speaker: And I'm in the inner circle with a group of people and Kathleen.
Speaker: And so I'm just, I'm really excited because there's so many possibilities.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful.
Speaker: Shouts out to Kathleen Cameron.
Speaker: She's amazing.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So, Ted Talk, I feel that strong from you.
Speaker: We got to talk about that.
Speaker: However, for you, the podcast, tell people about the podcast.
Speaker: I was on your podcast and we had to bring that episode.
Speaker: I mean, Debbie had me in tears talking about so many different things, but tell us about the podcast and how we can find you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, the podcast is Elevated Embodiment.
Speaker: And the purpose behind it is to share the message for those who choose not to seek help after loss, after grief, to be able to have something to turn to, to be able to listen to other people's stories.
Speaker: So the first episode is just me sharing my story.
Speaker: And thereafter, I've had guests and you were one of the guests.
Speaker: And they share their own story of how they navigated through their grief and loss with grace or without grace.
Speaker: And so one of my next podcasts, a solo that I want to do, is just to share the question that you were asking.
Speaker: So how did you navigate through your loss over the course of the years?
Speaker: And so just be able to give one-on-one advice.
Speaker: accounts of the different things that I did with the intention to give people ideas because my way is not necessarily your way, but it gives you the support and the guidance of the different things that you can check out.
Speaker: All right, last but not least, before we get out of here, you have an energy update in universe and collective consciousness in the cosmos.
Speaker: What advice do you have for people listening to just the universe that we all should be embodying to have a more fulfilling time or to deal with the energy change and the planet is changing, right?
Speaker: What is it that we can do as individuals to be more whole, more complete, more grounded in our heart space or just in general to have more grace moving forward?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Be curious and explore and discover because there's nothing better than an adventure and life is an adventure.
Speaker: And when we can allow ourselves to be curious, there's so much more that can show up for you and that can come from it.
Speaker: So just be curious.
Speaker: People, be curious.
Speaker: Debbie, you are phenomenal.
Speaker: Thank you for this phenomenal episode.
Speaker: It's so authentic and transparent and sharing your story.
Speaker: Pretty sure this will kill many people.
Speaker: It heal parts of me and made me understand more and more why you're really in my life, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So, just want to say thank you once again and to people listening, follow Debbie, connect with her.
Speaker: I'll put all her details in the show notes.
Speaker: This was an incredible episode.
Speaker: Shouts out to Simplify Impact, Marketing Expert, all my content and videos via YouTube, social media.
Speaker: Don't forget to get your Miracle Season merch at itsmiracleseason.co.
Speaker: Don't forget to follow Debbie and all of her amazing work.
Speaker: Talk to you guys soon.
Speaker: This was an amazing episode.
Speaker: Take a talk to my guests.
Speaker: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger.
Speaker: If you enjoyed today's conversation and found it insightful, please consider sharing this episode with a friend, a co-worker, or someone who can benefit from these insightful discussions.
Speaker: Your support helps us reach more listeners as we continue to foster meaningful dialogues about the diverse subcultures of American life.
Speaker: I'm Eric Bigger, reminding you that every conversation has the power to broaden perspectives and foster connection.
Speaker: Until next time, keep embracing the unexpected on Bigger Talks.
