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From Ashes to New Beginnings: Debbie Rosenfelt’s Story of Resilience & Transformation
152 Plays2 years ago
In this episode of Bigger Talks, Eric welcomes Debbie Rosenfelt, whose story of resilience and transformation serves as a lighthouse for individuals navigating the rough seas of life's challenges. Transitioning from a corporate career to becoming a catalyst for personal change, Debbie shares her profound journey. They explore the authentic and heart-wrenching chapters of Debbie's life, highlighting the tragic loss of her son and her remarkable evolution following this life-altering event. Together, Eric and Debbie offer tangible strategies to help listeners find comfort and fortitude as they face their own pivotal life changes.
Also in this episode:
- The strength derived from gratitude can be transformative even in the face of monumental loss.
- The unique path of navigating grief is deeply personal, with no universal roadmap to follow.
- Being present with grief and providing support can be immensely comforting to those in mourning.
- Curiosity can lead to adventure and discovery, serving as a healing balm on the journey towards wholeness.
About Debbie Rosenfelt:
Debbie Rosenfelt supports leaders in navigating times of tragic loss or big life changes, ensuring they process their experience by tending to their mental, emotional, physical and spiritual well-being. By helping calm the chaos through the Path of G.R.A.C.E, Debbie helps leaders reshape their reality once life has forever changed.
Connect with Debbie:
Instagram - @ceofromtheheart
Facebook - @ceo.from.the.heart
LinkedIn - @ceofromtheheart
Visit Debbie's website and podcast, Elevated Embodiment: https://debbierosenfelt.com/
Browse the Dennehey Design Collection: https://denneheydesign.com/
Check out Miracle Season’s collection: https://itsmiracleseason.co/collections/frontpage
Work with me: https://www.ericbigger.com/workwithme?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=work_with_m...
Connect with Simplified Impact: https://hubs.ly/Q02mVLDM0
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Transcript
Introduction to Bigger Talks
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger, a podcast dedicated to delving into unexpected conversations with a diverse range of guests.
00:00:13
Speaker
I'm your host, Eric Bigger, and I'm joining you each week to create an authentic space of dialogue about the subcultures of American life.
00:00:20
Speaker
Through engaging discussions with writers, actors, experts, and influencers, we will explore the strength of diversity and the transformational power of vulnerability.
00:00:32
Speaker
So let's dive in and discover the unexpected together on Bigger Talks.
00:00:40
Speaker
Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks.
Introducing Debbie Rosenfeld
00:00:43
Speaker
Back again, another episode, and I'm so honored and grateful for my next guest, Debbie Rosenfeld.
00:00:50
Speaker
She is a guide, a mentor, or more importantly, a phenomenal individual, a friend of mine, a client of mine, and she's here with us today.
00:01:00
Speaker
We're going to talk about everything from our team.
00:01:02
Speaker
authenticity, calming the chaos, being your most authentic selves, and dealing with grief and loss and devastation.
00:01:11
Speaker
So Debbie, how are you?
00:01:13
Speaker
Welcome to the Bigger Talks podcast.
00:01:15
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:17
Speaker
I really, really appreciate it.
00:01:19
Speaker
And I'm so looking forward to our conversation.
00:01:22
Speaker
I have no doubt it's going to be so rich.
00:01:25
Speaker
So rich and wealthy and healthy and it's a miracle.
00:01:27
Speaker
That's right.
00:01:28
Speaker
Before we get into the details of who you are and how you calm the chaos and people like, we have an art.
00:01:34
Speaker
So people listening and watching this as well.
00:01:36
Speaker
Debbie, my birthday is like three weeks ago, March 9th, and she gave me this heart.
00:01:40
Speaker
It's like, can you kind of like speak on this heart, Debbie?
00:01:43
Speaker
And where did it come from?
00:01:44
Speaker
I really love it.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, I can.
00:01:46
Speaker
So this heart came from the Holy Land.
00:01:51
Speaker
And a name of the company that sells these is called Dennehy Designs.
00:01:57
Speaker
And when I saw these, this is my signature, the heart.
00:02:02
Speaker
My business name is CEO from the heart.
00:02:05
Speaker
And it just spoke to me.
00:02:07
Speaker
It spoke to me when I saw it and then said, I'm going to get these and I'm just going to give it away as my signature to each special person that's in my life.
00:02:19
Speaker
And when I got it, I was just like so touched.
00:02:22
Speaker
But what's so beautiful, each heart is very unique and it's made out of olive wood.
00:02:29
Speaker
And again, it's from the Holy Land.
00:02:31
Speaker
So it's from Jerusalem.
00:02:32
Speaker
But what's so special about it, when we just hold it, it just fits right in the palm of your hand.
00:02:40
Speaker
And it just feels good.
00:02:41
Speaker
And I even put mine under my pillow and I had some really cool dreams.
00:02:46
Speaker
Is there a place where we can order these from or get these from?
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:50
Speaker
It's called Dennehy Designs, and you can just Google it.
00:02:54
Speaker
And they also make crosses and hearts out of old piano wood or old organs.
00:03:02
Speaker
So they get these organs in pianos.
00:03:04
Speaker
And what they do is they recycle the wood.
00:03:07
Speaker
So they take it apart and they use it purposely.
00:03:11
Speaker
So it's like recycling, but in a very purposeful way.
00:03:15
Speaker
Get into our beautiful portal that we always get into when we train.
00:03:18
Speaker
I just want to read back to you your intentions for any and everybody that comes into your vibration.
00:03:23
Speaker
So on your website, you say, I help leaders calm the chaos through navigating big life changes and loss so they create deep fulfillment in every area of their
Dealing with Personal Loss
00:03:35
Speaker
lives.
00:03:35
Speaker
What does that mean?
00:03:37
Speaker
So what that means is, and it just came through because of my own personal experience.
00:03:44
Speaker
So when I was working, if you will, in corporate America as a CFO, that was just my position, if you will.
00:03:54
Speaker
I had the unfortunate news of learning that my son died by suicide.
00:04:00
Speaker
That was in December 20th of 2008.
00:04:03
Speaker
And it was a huge shock, a huge shock to the system.
00:04:10
Speaker
And so over the last 15, soon to be 16 years, I have just been navigating through life and trying to figure it out.
00:04:20
Speaker
And how does one navigate?
00:04:22
Speaker
And it's a question I ask almost everyone, especially on my podcast, is how does one navigate through loss or tragedy or whatever with grace?
00:04:34
Speaker
And we each have our own path.
00:04:37
Speaker
So I've created, if you will, the path of grace.
00:04:41
Speaker
But what I also recognize is everybody's path is different.
00:04:46
Speaker
And so there's no one way, there's no right way, and there's no wrong way.
00:04:51
Speaker
It's just all about navigating.
00:04:54
Speaker
How do we get through it?
00:04:56
Speaker
What's a better way?
00:04:57
Speaker
It's not get through it.
00:04:58
Speaker
It's how do we literally navigate and allow the fullness of life to move through us as we're, if you will, learning how to create a whole new normal.
00:05:11
Speaker
That's the best thing you could have said in that moment.
00:05:13
Speaker
There's no right way or no wrong way.
00:05:16
Speaker
I don't even have a game, right?
00:05:18
Speaker
Let's take it back just a bit, you know, so when that, you know, tragedy of news came to you, had that in your awareness, what was your first thought?
00:05:27
Speaker
Is this like, is this true at the time when you and your son, you know,
00:05:31
Speaker
total disbelief and like you're in a dream and you're waiting for someone to shake you and wake you up.
00:05:39
Speaker
But when the officer came down to my other son's business to find us and to notify us,
00:05:47
Speaker
And we were all in the same room and he looked at me and he started asking me questions like, do you have a son by the name of Ken Jones?
00:05:54
Speaker
And I said, yes, I do.
00:05:56
Speaker
And clueless, me clueless.
00:05:59
Speaker
And then he says, does he live at 5433 North Pierce Lane in Prescott Valley, Arizona?
00:06:05
Speaker
I said, yes, he does.
00:06:07
Speaker
And still clueless.
00:06:09
Speaker
And then he looked at me and he said, I'm so sorry, but your son died by suicide.
00:06:14
Speaker
And I looked at him.
00:06:16
Speaker
And I said, how would you know?
00:06:19
Speaker
I looked at him because I immediately went into logic.
00:06:22
Speaker
I said, how would you know?
00:06:24
Speaker
Because Kenny lived in Prescott Valley, Arizona, and we were right here.
00:06:29
Speaker
And I literally said that two or three times to him.
00:06:31
Speaker
He said, well, the Prescott Valley police reached out to us to let us know so we could notify you.
00:06:39
Speaker
We were all in total absolute shock, disbelief.
00:06:43
Speaker
You don't know where up is up and down is down.
00:06:47
Speaker
You're just trying to figure out what is going on.
00:06:49
Speaker
Is this really happening?
00:06:51
Speaker
And what was your relationship like at the time of your episode?
00:06:54
Speaker
Did you guys communicate?
00:06:56
Speaker
Like, how was it?
00:06:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:58
Speaker
So the last time we spoke on the phone was on December 6th.
00:07:03
Speaker
And that's when I was down in San Diego for business, for work.
00:07:07
Speaker
So the company that I worked for at the time, they were a design company and they were also a manufacturer of T-shirts.
00:07:18
Speaker
And so the design company was up here in Boffle, Washington, but the manufacturer was in Tecate, Mexico.
00:07:26
Speaker
And then the warehouse was in Takata, California, so I just was crossing the border to go.
00:07:31
Speaker
And so I had crossed back over to on the U.S. side, and I gave him a call just to talk to him.
00:07:38
Speaker
And he was so excited.
00:07:39
Speaker
He said, Mom, next year I'm going to be coming up for Christmas.
00:07:44
Speaker
I got the time off.
00:07:45
Speaker
And I said, Great, Ken.
00:07:46
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to it.
00:07:48
Speaker
And I shared with him that I just had been to a parade for Christmas and stuff like that.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, it was a good conversation.
00:07:57
Speaker
He was excited.
00:07:59
Speaker
And that was the last time we spoke over the phone.
00:08:03
Speaker
Well, the year prior, Kenny went silent for about eight months.
00:08:09
Speaker
And that was like from, I want to say, May of 2007 till about February of 2008.
00:08:18
Speaker
When he reached out and called me, and so he had just gotten a job at Lockheed Martin.
00:08:24
Speaker
And so he called me in February and I hadn't heard from him in those seven to eight months.
00:08:31
Speaker
And so when I saw that he called on my phone, I said, oh, my God, Kenny called.
00:08:35
Speaker
I got to give him a call.
00:08:37
Speaker
And I actually had reservations to fly down to Prescott Valley anyway.
00:08:42
Speaker
I said, okay, now I'm going down because I'm not hearing from him.
00:08:46
Speaker
I want to make sure that he's okay.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yet he called me.
00:08:49
Speaker
And then he came up to Seattle and, you know, we had some great time together.
00:08:54
Speaker
He went down to California to see his dad and stepmom and his best friend and his mom.
00:09:00
Speaker
And then the last time I physically saw Kenny was actually in June of 2008.
00:09:06
Speaker
beginning of July when he came up for a family friend's memorial service, because a dear of which we called him Uncle Terry, and Kenny was really touched because he grew up with them.
00:09:18
Speaker
And so we went to the memorial service, and Kenny was the first one to stand up and talk about Terry in a very heartfelt way.
00:09:28
Speaker
And it moved all of us.
00:09:31
Speaker
And, yeah, so that was really the last time I actually physically saw Kenny was in June, July of 2008.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I think for you, you have such a beautiful soul and spirit.
00:09:44
Speaker
I believe your son is with you right now.
00:09:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I agree, too.
00:09:47
Speaker
Disbelief comes in times when you need him or he wants your attention.
00:09:52
Speaker
But for the listeners in that moment from getting the news from the officer and then being in like disbelief to him actually transitioning, what was the pivot for you?
Finding Gratitude and Support
00:10:03
Speaker
How did you transition in a way to what was the calmness to your chaos?
00:10:08
Speaker
What was the actually tangible, logical things you had to grow through to kind of like
00:10:14
Speaker
not accepted, but kind of like had ease and grace with it where you can kind of get to the other side and have more peace inside or more calm.
00:10:22
Speaker
I think that happens just over time.
00:10:25
Speaker
But the very first thing that I did the day that we were notified is I pulled out my gratitude journal and I wrote out how grateful I was for the 30 years that I had with Kenny.
00:10:37
Speaker
And that was the first thing.
00:10:39
Speaker
And I knew, I knew it was really, really easy to
00:10:43
Speaker
to go down the dark path.
00:10:45
Speaker
I could feel it in my body, and I said, I can't do that.
00:10:48
Speaker
I don't want to do that.
00:10:50
Speaker
It was painful.
00:10:51
Speaker
I mean, really painful.
00:10:54
Speaker
And so it was just taking one step at a time, one day at a time.
00:11:00
Speaker
And also what happened was
00:11:03
Speaker
I'm one of these doers.
00:11:05
Speaker
So when chaos occurs, I step in and I get stuff done.
00:11:12
Speaker
And so I had a mission and the mission was, first off, we had to get down to Arizona.
00:11:18
Speaker
Well, it was snowing here.
00:11:21
Speaker
Like it was like snowing a lot and the city was shutting down.
00:11:26
Speaker
We couldn't even get flights out.
00:11:29
Speaker
And so my husband, Todd, was into trains at the time.
00:11:33
Speaker
So he would say, let's take the train down.
00:11:36
Speaker
And I looked at him and I said, I don't want to take the train down.
00:11:40
Speaker
We took the train.
00:11:42
Speaker
We had to because we couldn't get out.
00:11:44
Speaker
So just having that support around me.
00:11:48
Speaker
And we took the train down, Todd and I and my other son, Brian, we took the train down to Sacramento.
00:11:55
Speaker
My uncle picked us up, took us to the airport.
00:11:58
Speaker
So it's having the people around us, right?
00:12:02
Speaker
Family.
00:12:03
Speaker
I had at work.
00:12:05
Speaker
It just so happened my sister and my best friend's mother was working there as well.
00:12:11
Speaker
I had a lot of family support around me.
00:12:15
Speaker
And what it means is that it's not that they didn't have to do anything.
00:12:20
Speaker
It was just their presence.
00:12:22
Speaker
Because what we're looking for is we're looking for stability.
00:12:26
Speaker
We're looking for something that we can ground in.
00:12:28
Speaker
And when we have people that just free a container, and it's not that they're doing anything on purpose, it's just their presence is a safe container.
00:12:39
Speaker
And so it's just taking that one step at a time.
00:12:43
Speaker
You do what you have to do.
00:12:44
Speaker
And so because Kenny lived down in Prescott Valley, Arizona, after we had two funeral services, memorial services, one was here in Seattle, one was down in Petaluma, California.
00:12:57
Speaker
The hard stuff was after we had to do is go down, pack up all his personal things.
00:13:04
Speaker
It felt so violating.
00:13:06
Speaker
But we were going through his stuff.
00:13:08
Speaker
You know, he put me in charge.
00:13:10
Speaker
He even put it in his notes that he said, Mom will take care of everything.
00:13:14
Speaker
And he told us what he wanted us to do.
00:13:16
Speaker
And we got one note that had a whole bunch of notes for friends and family.
00:13:22
Speaker
Kenny was someone that took care of people.
00:13:26
Speaker
So he told us what to do with the house, his car.
00:13:30
Speaker
He told us to take some things back to Costco.
00:13:33
Speaker
I said, no, I'm not going to do that.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah, there is just so much to do and so much to deal with, and you just do it a little bit at a time.
00:13:43
Speaker
But what also occurred is when I went back to work after coming home from Prescott Valley Inn the first time, I made a note to myself.
00:13:52
Speaker
I said, there's got to be more to life than this.
00:13:56
Speaker
And I wrote on a post-it note, and I still have it in my car, I said, follow your heart to remind me to follow my heart.
00:14:05
Speaker
So that was the beginning of, if you will, disassembling of the old life and learning how to create a new life.
00:14:15
Speaker
And I decided that I wanted to become certified as a coach.
00:14:21
Speaker
I took a leadership program, a year-long leadership program.
00:14:25
Speaker
I needed to dive in and I had to figure it out.
00:14:29
Speaker
And what were you doing private to that?
00:14:30
Speaker
Were you moving to like coaching certification?
00:14:33
Speaker
Were you working in corporate America as a CFO?
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:38
Speaker
So in accounting, if you will, finances, financials.
00:14:41
Speaker
And then in 2017, I had five family members die within a seven-month period.
00:14:49
Speaker
First, it started off with my dad in December of 2016, and then my cousin Bill from esophageal cancer in February.
00:14:59
Speaker
And then in April, my sister-in-law, she was only 46 years old.
00:15:05
Speaker
She died from Hodgkin's Down Lymphoma, but she had been going through chemo treatment.
00:15:10
Speaker
Well, because of the chemo and all the treatment, her liver stopped functioning.
00:15:16
Speaker
And so I've never been through an experience where you support someone through their dying process.
00:15:24
Speaker
And so myself and my other sister-in-law, another Deborah Rosenfeld, who was a nurse, we were there in Walla Walla and to support Jeff.
00:15:33
Speaker
and his mom and dad through that.
00:15:36
Speaker
And then in May, my kitty, Kiki, of 15 years died, and she was the one that helped get me through Kenny's loss.
00:15:47
Speaker
That was a heartbreak.
00:15:48
Speaker
And then my uncle died in June, which was my dad's brother in June from liver cancer.
00:15:54
Speaker
And my thought process was, I've already been through the worst of the worst, so I'm going to be good.
00:16:01
Speaker
Well, that was a lie.
00:16:03
Speaker
The fallacy.
00:16:04
Speaker
So what happens is when we have grief after grief, after grief, after grief, what happens, that's called grief stacking.
00:16:11
Speaker
I was processing it, but I wasn't like talking to somebody about it.
00:16:16
Speaker
I was just going through the motions of helping everybody and doing this and that.
00:16:21
Speaker
Well, finally, I said, you know what?
00:16:23
Speaker
I think I need some help.
00:16:25
Speaker
I talked to my pastor at the time.
00:16:27
Speaker
He gave the name of someone.
00:16:29
Speaker
And so I made the first phone call.
00:16:32
Speaker
And just making the phone call, I felt a huge relief.
00:16:36
Speaker
And that was good.
00:16:37
Speaker
But then I decided a year later to go through some training through the grief recovery method to help people with their grief.
00:16:46
Speaker
It's so good.
00:16:47
Speaker
You know, that was such a beautiful narrative that was your reality at that time.
Insights from Loss and Childhood Reflections
00:16:52
Speaker
I want to take it back to Kenny.
00:16:53
Speaker
Kenny, such a great soul.
00:16:56
Speaker
And you led the conversation with Grace.
00:16:59
Speaker
And it's interesting.
00:17:00
Speaker
Kenny had the intentions to lead life with Grace.
00:17:04
Speaker
Right?
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:05
Speaker
He left two notes.
00:17:06
Speaker
He left two notes.
00:17:08
Speaker
That's how big of a heart he had to leave even everyone else with directions and guidance.
00:17:16
Speaker
Because he had to do what he had to do for whatever reason.
00:17:19
Speaker
But he left a note.
00:17:20
Speaker
That says a lot about who he was and who he is still.
00:17:23
Speaker
Spirit, you know, like,
00:17:25
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:17:26
Speaker
So, Kenny, in his letters, in his note, he said, it wasn't that he was looking for more love, because he felt truly loved by his family and friends, it's not that he needed more friends.
00:17:41
Speaker
But it's like he checked off all the boxes.
00:17:45
Speaker
He was looking for transcendence.
00:17:47
Speaker
To one of his friends, he said to Carlos, I hope you find transcendence.
00:17:53
Speaker
And it's here.
00:17:54
Speaker
I know it's here.
00:17:56
Speaker
Here's something else I believe, Eric.
00:17:58
Speaker
I truly believe that Kenny and I had a soul contract.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:03
Speaker
to take my life to a deeper level because in order for us to really transcend ourselves, we have to really experience, well, we don't have to, but experience the depth of life at the deepest, deepest parts.
00:18:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
And it's interesting because I believe that he served his sole purpose.
00:18:26
Speaker
There's another thing that came up when you were speaking as I was listening.
00:18:30
Speaker
You gave me years.
00:18:31
Speaker
And you know, to people who know me, I'm into numbers, right?
00:18:33
Speaker
I'm the numbers guy, numerology.
00:18:36
Speaker
So 2008, you look at 2008, collectively, that's a new start equals one.
00:18:42
Speaker
We do two plus zero plus zero plus eight, 10, which equals one.
00:18:47
Speaker
Your birthday is October 16th?
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:52
Speaker
You got one is six, is seven plus one because 10 and one zero for October equals eight, right?
00:19:00
Speaker
If you plus those years plus one equals nine for your personal year number in those spaces, what nine comes to is completion, right?
00:19:11
Speaker
Because you're about to go into a new year.
00:19:14
Speaker
So here we go.
00:19:15
Speaker
Let me take it even further.
00:19:16
Speaker
2017.
00:19:16
Speaker
Bus one is three.
00:19:17
Speaker
Seven is ten.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:19
Speaker
It's another one year.
00:19:26
Speaker
Wow.
00:19:27
Speaker
And you add your eight with your one, there's another nine.
00:19:31
Speaker
Completion again, you start a new cycle.
00:19:35
Speaker
Wow.
00:19:35
Speaker
It's interesting the commonality of like when people are leaving, you are growing into a new energy field.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:44
Speaker
And I think most times, depends on how it happens, but I believe most times, even if it's not bad, we mourn someone leaving Earth.
00:19:54
Speaker
And sometimes not even about us, it's about them.
00:19:57
Speaker
And sometimes they want to be celebrated, right?
00:20:00
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:20:01
Speaker
He checked off the boxes.
00:20:03
Speaker
He wanted to transcend.
00:20:04
Speaker
And however way he saw it, it's so interesting that you had to experience that in his lifetime, but you have all the data, all the data.
00:20:12
Speaker
downloads and all the information when dealing with grief.
00:20:17
Speaker
Now, what I want to do now is take it back earlier when you were young.
00:20:22
Speaker
If you can remember, think about a time in your mind when you were a little girl, when was the first time, if you can remember, you had to calm the chaos?
00:20:34
Speaker
And you did it and you didn't know you did it or you was aware.
00:20:38
Speaker
If you can remember.
00:20:40
Speaker
Calming the chaos.
00:20:41
Speaker
So,
00:20:42
Speaker
teenage, it could be younger years before you had kids, it could be whatever to just take you back while you really had the common chaos early on.
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question, Eric.
00:20:53
Speaker
I'm thinking back, but it's just like I felt like a very lost soul.
00:20:59
Speaker
How I was raised is I was with very strict parents and it was always deferred to my father.
00:21:07
Speaker
I ended up being a rebel.
00:21:09
Speaker
So I'll share a little bit about my human design, which we talk about that as well.
00:21:15
Speaker
A manifester, initiator.
00:21:17
Speaker
And what I've learned is I am not to be controlled.
00:21:21
Speaker
I am here to inform, but I'm not to be controlled.
00:21:26
Speaker
So the things that I would do because I was controlled as a teenager, I would rebel.
00:21:33
Speaker
I would say, I'm not having anything to do with this.
00:21:36
Speaker
Even at the age of, I think it was 18, when I decided to move down to California, I
00:21:42
Speaker
to be with my grandparents just because I needed to get away.
00:21:45
Speaker
I just needed to get out.
00:21:47
Speaker
But I initiated that.
00:21:48
Speaker
I called my grandparents and asked them if I could do that.
00:21:51
Speaker
Another example is I'll go back to when I was four years old.
00:21:55
Speaker
I was told I ran away.
00:21:57
Speaker
And when I learned about myself as a manifester, I'm going...
00:22:00
Speaker
No, I didn't run away.
00:22:02
Speaker
I just wanted to go home.
00:22:04
Speaker
I was with my Uncle Conrad, which was at my grandparents' house.
00:22:08
Speaker
So here in Seattle area, they lived on the west side of Magnolia, and we didn't live too far away from them.
00:22:17
Speaker
And so for some reason, I wanted to go home.
00:22:20
Speaker
I decided I was going home.
00:22:23
Speaker
Four years old, and I remember specifically walking down these really, really steep stairs, because my grandparents had steep stairs at their house, and I just went about my way.
00:22:33
Speaker
So I went through Fort Lawton at the time, which is now called Discovery Park, but Fort Lawton was an army base.
00:22:39
Speaker
I specifically remember being picked up by some kind of an army officer.
00:22:45
Speaker
I remember him wearing his uniform, and I think it was a little black Volkswagen bug.
00:22:50
Speaker
I don't remember anything after that, but I remember everything leading up to that.
00:22:56
Speaker
And so I was just being me.
00:22:59
Speaker
I was just doing what I do.
00:23:02
Speaker
Being your most authentic self.
00:23:04
Speaker
You also said the best thing a person can have in their life is support, right?
00:23:09
Speaker
Having people just in their energy field or their organs.
00:23:14
Speaker
But how does this, what I think happens with some people, how does one be present with the grief when they're losing someone or losing something and they have to move on?
00:23:25
Speaker
Because I feel like most of us,
00:23:27
Speaker
We're not really present in the grief.
00:23:29
Speaker
We're even suppressing it.
00:23:31
Speaker
Like you said, grief stacking or we're not looking at it because it's too afraid to look at.
00:23:35
Speaker
So you working with a client or anyone, how do you get them to be present with what they're dealing with for them not to be so afraid of?
00:23:45
Speaker
How does that work from your perspective?
00:23:48
Speaker
So I just be present with them.
00:23:51
Speaker
And I also remind them there's nothing to fix.
00:23:53
Speaker
They're not broken.
00:23:55
Speaker
And we have believed that we're broken.
00:23:58
Speaker
We're not broken.
00:24:00
Speaker
That's why we're here is to experience the fullness of life.
00:24:05
Speaker
And so it's listening to stories and asking people about their loved one because we just want to hear their name.
00:24:14
Speaker
We want to keep their energy alive.
00:24:18
Speaker
We wanna keep their name alive.
00:24:21
Speaker
I mean, here's a funny thing.
00:24:23
Speaker
When I was seeing a grief counselor after Kenny died, I looked at her one day and she asked me what's going on.
00:24:31
Speaker
And I said, for some reason, I had this notion that I thought I was gonna forget Kenny because he's dead.
00:24:39
Speaker
But those are the kind of thoughts that go through our mind when we're in that shock and disbelief.
00:24:46
Speaker
And she looked at me with a straight face, very kindly, very softly, and she said, Deb, what makes you think you're going to forget Kenny?
00:24:56
Speaker
And I looked at her and I said, oh, yeah.
00:25:00
Speaker
So it's just like she brought me back to reality.
00:25:04
Speaker
And so it's just honoring where we are in the
Role and Journey to Becoming a Chaplain
00:25:09
Speaker
moment.
00:25:09
Speaker
It's being present in the moment with what we're feeling.
00:25:13
Speaker
And so it's just like when I was serving as a chaplain here with our community.
00:25:20
Speaker
When I would be called out on a call, and it usually was on Saturdays because that was my shift, I'm no longer doing that, I would just be present in the moment with what was going on.
00:25:31
Speaker
There was nothing to fix.
00:25:33
Speaker
There were people that were wailing, crying in disbelief themselves, and you just be calm and you just be present.
00:25:41
Speaker
And then you help them with the practical things.
00:25:44
Speaker
If the medical examiner released the family member to the family,
00:25:49
Speaker
I would help them make the arrangements for the funeral home to come pick up their loved one and to start the process for them.
00:25:57
Speaker
But it was just to be with them until family came or friends came or their support system came for that moment.
00:26:06
Speaker
So anytime you're with a loved one or a friend or anyone has just lost somebody, just be present with them.
00:26:16
Speaker
You don't have to say anything.
00:26:19
Speaker
You know, if it's a few days later, just call and check in on them and just say, hey, I'm just checking in.
00:26:25
Speaker
And even get some grief groceries or if their lawn needs to be mowed, just go do it.
00:26:32
Speaker
Don't ask.
00:26:33
Speaker
That's the last thing you want to do is ask them questions because they won't be able to answer you.
00:26:39
Speaker
They won't be able to respond because they don't know.
00:26:43
Speaker
They just can't answer that question.
00:26:45
Speaker
Certain times the groceries you get when you're greeting, is it more like a rule of food?
00:26:51
Speaker
You said something about keeping the energy up.
00:26:54
Speaker
Then as a chaplain, what is the intentions of a chaplain?
00:26:57
Speaker
Because I have my notion and perception of it, but what is it really from you being in it?
00:27:02
Speaker
I see it as a companion.
00:27:05
Speaker
So in the old definition of chaplain is that we would come and pray.
00:27:10
Speaker
I'm there to pray with you if that's what you want.
00:27:14
Speaker
And I had a lot of people that wanted that, yes.
00:27:17
Speaker
But that's not something that we force on somebody because we all have been raised in a different type of spirituality or religion.
00:27:27
Speaker
We even had people who would sometimes push us away because of the old paradigm thought.
00:27:32
Speaker
But we're there just to provide comfort and be a companion in that moment.
00:27:39
Speaker
It's not forever.
00:27:40
Speaker
It's just that very moment.
00:27:44
Speaker
There's times that when we serve as a fire, I've given my tennis shoes.
00:27:48
Speaker
I had some spare tennis shoes in the car and they came out from the fire with no shoes on.
00:27:55
Speaker
I said, would you like a pair of shoes?
00:27:57
Speaker
So it's little things like that, giving them snacks, water, having a dry place for them to come in, in the rig, to be able to call family, provide them a phone so they can call somebody if they don't have their phone.
00:28:12
Speaker
Sometimes Red Cross would come depending on the circumstances, if it was a fire, so there was a dry place for people to come.
00:28:20
Speaker
So it's to serve the individual in the moment, but not for us to push anything on them, because that's not serving.
00:28:31
Speaker
We're there to be in the moment.
00:28:33
Speaker
Now, did you hold this position prior to Kenny transition?
00:28:38
Speaker
That was all a God thing.
00:28:39
Speaker
That happened on October 21st, 2018.
00:28:42
Speaker
It was a Sunday morning about 11 o'clock and I just got home from church and I was hearing these sirens get closer and closer and then they stopped right in front of my neighbor's house.
00:28:54
Speaker
And I said, oh dear, I better go across the street.
00:28:57
Speaker
And then I stopped myself and I said, no, you will know if you need to go.
00:29:02
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, like 10 seconds later, I heard this huge blood curdling scream and I just ran over there.
00:29:10
Speaker
And Eric was on the floor screaming and crying because the paramedics just pronounced his wife had died.
00:29:16
Speaker
And Peggy was a spry woman.
00:29:19
Speaker
I mean, she's 65 years old, very active.
00:29:22
Speaker
I mean, nothing was wrong with her that we knew of.
00:29:26
Speaker
And I just held Eric.
00:29:28
Speaker
I just went over there and I just held him.
00:29:30
Speaker
And he was just sobbing.
00:29:33
Speaker
And then in that case, which I didn't know at the time, but when after the fire department calls, says, pronounce somebody had died, the police come in to do their investigation.
00:29:44
Speaker
Well, at that time,
00:29:45
Speaker
with the police, a chaplain came, and this was Dale.
00:29:49
Speaker
And so I met Dale, and so I was just there to help Eric, but the police were there to do their investigation.
00:29:57
Speaker
Dale was there to serve as chaplain.
00:29:59
Speaker
And so I was there for the whole time.
00:30:01
Speaker
I helped Eric call his sister to have her come up, and I learned a little bit about what a chaplain is and what they do.
00:30:09
Speaker
And so Eric's sister arrived and the medical examiner arrived to pick up Peggy, and I knew it was time to leave.
00:30:15
Speaker
I could just feel it.
00:30:17
Speaker
And I walked out the door, and coming back home, I looked up to the sky and I said, hmm, I wonder what it takes to become a chaplain.
00:30:25
Speaker
And it's history from there.
00:30:27
Speaker
That's when it all started.
00:30:29
Speaker
So I joined Support 7 and been working with South County Fire, and as of the end of December, I resigned.
00:30:38
Speaker
from being a chaplain.
00:30:39
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker
And it's beautiful when we allow life to take us on journeys and we don't understand where it's taking us into a new opportunity or possibility.
00:30:49
Speaker
Right?
00:30:49
Speaker
Then you said support seven, your birthday equals seven.
00:30:51
Speaker
So it's like, look at the secret initiatives and numbers again.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:55
Speaker
Now that we know this history of you and being a chaplain and praying and being present, also, you know, you being a manifester, it makes sense.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's like you're there to inform and control.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:31:09
Speaker
In this part of life where you are now, what type of spiritual work have you done to kind of fully embrace where you are to what you're doing right now to get more out of yourself?
Spiritual Growth and Aspirations
00:31:21
Speaker
For your calmness when chaos does happen that you're not expecting.
00:31:27
Speaker
How do you down it in a beautiful, graceful way so you can feel free?
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
So I had the pleasure of being raised with a foundation.
00:31:40
Speaker
And the foundation was, I was born and raised Catholic, and I went to CCD, and I went to a Catholic school and stuff like that.
00:31:51
Speaker
I have that foundation.
00:31:53
Speaker
I no longer follow that methodology, if you will.
00:31:59
Speaker
God is so much deeper than that.
00:32:03
Speaker
God has nothing to do with religion.
00:32:05
Speaker
Jesus has nothing to do with religion.
00:32:08
Speaker
It's having the depth of
00:32:10
Speaker
of going deep inside and knowing that God and Jesus is in us and Spirit is always with us and guides us every single day.
00:32:24
Speaker
We just have to be open to listen and listen.
00:32:28
Speaker
It's just these last couple of years that I've gotten deeper and deeper into the spirituality of listening to God, listening to spirit.
00:32:42
Speaker
I have some wonderful spiritual mentors that too are growing.
00:32:48
Speaker
I listened to Richard Rohr.
00:32:51
Speaker
He is amazing.
00:32:53
Speaker
He has this perspective of beyond the Catholic faith, beyond whatever.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's just so much more depth.
00:33:03
Speaker
And that's what this journey has been all about, is the depth.
00:33:08
Speaker
of life, the depth of really experiencing our humanness.
00:33:14
Speaker
So my belief is we are spiritual beings here having a full human experience and to experience it all.
00:33:24
Speaker
And so even all the hard stuff.
00:33:27
Speaker
And for me, it's been loss and grief, you know, even lost businesses or closed businesses.
00:33:34
Speaker
But there's been experiences that no one can replace because of that.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I can just share my experience and my message with people so they can learn from that as well.
00:33:47
Speaker
It's so great that you said that because we all deal with laws on different levels and different entities in the energy.
00:33:54
Speaker
You said something to me a few days ago, maybe last week, and you said something about the ocean.
00:33:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:34:02
Speaker
Can you just for a bit unpack and elaborate on that ideology that you came to understanding?
00:34:09
Speaker
Because I think it's beautiful for people to listen.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:13
Speaker
Well, it was actually Natalie that shared that with me as we were having some really deep conversations.
00:34:18
Speaker
But she said, have you noticed that the ocean, the waves are always moving?
00:34:28
Speaker
I just stopped and I said, whoa.
00:34:32
Speaker
That is so true.
00:34:34
Speaker
The ocean is always moving.
00:34:37
Speaker
The waves are always coming in and going out, coming in and going out.
00:34:43
Speaker
Well, it's just like with our heart, how our body functions.
00:34:48
Speaker
Like, the ocean doesn't know that it's moving or not moving.
00:34:51
Speaker
It just is.
00:34:52
Speaker
Our heart is always moving.
00:34:55
Speaker
We're not aware of it.
00:34:55
Speaker
It's just like a fish being in a fishbowl.
00:34:58
Speaker
It has no idea it's in water.
00:35:00
Speaker
But just to have the forethought that the ocean is always moving, it just blows my mind.
00:35:09
Speaker
It's like there's no rest in that.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, and it's like the heart, it talks about the heart is constantly being happy and it's not thinking about it.
00:35:17
Speaker
Because what I just discovered is the ocean as in our heart, within our body, but ever present, right?
00:35:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:26
Speaker
You're allowing things to flow and move and maneuver and then you can take a brief look at your ocean.
00:35:34
Speaker
Right?
00:35:35
Speaker
How is my ocean moving?
00:35:36
Speaker
But when we're not present with our ocean, our hearts, we know we're moving.
00:35:41
Speaker
We're just either in autopilot or we're in fear or we're just trying to control or stay busy because we're afraid of what we want to look at, right?
00:35:52
Speaker
And it's just a beautiful thing to know that we're all here to serve a higher purpose.
00:35:58
Speaker
And I think you're serving your higher purpose by being you.
00:36:01
Speaker
With all the challenges, changes, and pains, and breakthroughs, and all of the grief, and everything, you just show up in such a beautiful way that you make the complex easy to understand.
00:36:16
Speaker
Now that I'm having a moral understanding of who you are, I get why you're here to calm chaos.
00:36:24
Speaker
So one more thought I just had as you were sharing.
00:36:27
Speaker
So just the underneath the ocean, like deep, deep in the ocean, it's so still.
00:36:34
Speaker
It's quiet.
00:36:36
Speaker
But what we are to be is have that stillness and quiet inside of us with our little clownfish or yellowfish or whatever beautiful tropical fish that are swimming down deep in the ocean.
00:36:54
Speaker
To bring that beauty and that stillness and quietness inside of us out of our heart.
00:37:02
Speaker
So what's next for Debbie and where is she at now in her life?
00:37:06
Speaker
And like, what's next?
00:37:07
Speaker
I mean, I feel like books, you do have a podcast.
00:37:10
Speaker
Tell us more.
00:37:11
Speaker
Like what's next for Debbie?
00:37:13
Speaker
Oh, gosh, there's so many possibilities, Eric.
00:37:16
Speaker
And that's what I'm really excited about.
00:37:19
Speaker
I really want to do a TED Talk.
00:37:22
Speaker
And a colleague, a friend, did a TED Talk, and she worked with someone.
00:37:28
Speaker
I think his name is Daryl Stinson.
00:37:30
Speaker
So I'm going to check that out.
00:37:32
Speaker
So that's one thing.
00:37:35
Speaker
So I believe speaking somehow.
00:37:37
Speaker
Oh, yeah, you have to speak.
00:37:40
Speaker
But also using my voice in other ways.
00:37:44
Speaker
So I have this phenomenal book that I found when we were down in Malibu called When Things Fall Apart and it's Heart Advice for Difficult Times by Pima Chodron.
00:37:58
Speaker
I actually want to record that in my voice because
00:38:01
Speaker
and be able to offer that to my clients that I work with.
00:38:06
Speaker
So anything and everything is possible.
00:38:09
Speaker
I'm just really, really excited.
00:38:11
Speaker
And I'm in the inner circle with a group of people and Kathleen.
00:38:16
Speaker
And so I'm just, I'm really excited because there's so many possibilities.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful.
00:38:21
Speaker
Shouts out to Kathleen Cameron.
00:38:24
Speaker
She's amazing.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:38:25
Speaker
So, Ted Talk, I feel that strong from you.
00:38:30
Speaker
We got to talk about that.
00:38:32
Speaker
However, for you, the podcast, tell people about the podcast.
00:38:35
Speaker
I was on your podcast and we had to bring that episode.
00:38:38
Speaker
I mean, Debbie had me in tears talking about so many different things, but tell us about the podcast and how we can find you.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:47
Speaker
So, the podcast is Elevated Embodiment.
00:38:50
Speaker
And the purpose behind it is to share the message for those who choose not to seek help after loss, after grief, to be able to have something to turn to, to be able to listen to other people's stories.
00:39:06
Speaker
So the first episode is just me sharing my story.
00:39:09
Speaker
And thereafter, I've had guests and you were one of the guests.
00:39:13
Speaker
And they share their own story of how they navigated through their grief and loss with grace or without grace.
00:39:24
Speaker
And so one of my next podcasts, a solo that I want to do, is just to share the question that you were asking.
00:39:31
Speaker
So how did you navigate through your loss over the course of the years?
00:39:37
Speaker
And so just be able to give one-on-one advice.
00:39:40
Speaker
accounts of the different things that I did with the intention to give people ideas because my way is not necessarily your way, but it gives you the support and the guidance of the different things that you can check out.
00:39:54
Speaker
All right, last but not least, before we get out of here, you have an energy update in universe and collective consciousness in the cosmos.
00:40:02
Speaker
What advice do you have for people listening to just the universe that we all should be embodying to have a more fulfilling time or to deal with the energy change and the planet is changing, right?
00:40:14
Speaker
What is it that we can do as individuals to be more whole, more complete, more grounded in our heart space or just in general to have more grace moving forward?
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:24
Speaker
Be curious and explore and discover because there's nothing better than an adventure and life is an adventure.
00:40:34
Speaker
And when we can allow ourselves to be curious, there's so much more that can show up for you and that can come from it.
00:40:43
Speaker
So just be curious.
00:40:45
Speaker
People, be curious.
00:40:48
Speaker
Debbie, you are phenomenal.
00:40:49
Speaker
Thank you for this phenomenal episode.
00:40:51
Speaker
It's so authentic and transparent and sharing your story.
00:40:55
Speaker
Pretty sure this will kill many people.
00:40:57
Speaker
It heal parts of me and made me understand more and more why you're really in my life, right?
00:41:02
Speaker
Yes.
00:41:02
Speaker
So, just want to say thank you once again and to people listening, follow Debbie, connect with her.
00:41:09
Speaker
I'll put all her details in the show notes.
00:41:12
Speaker
This was an incredible episode.
00:41:14
Speaker
Shouts out to Simplify Impact, Marketing Expert, all my content and videos via YouTube, social media.
00:41:20
Speaker
Don't forget to get your Miracle Season merch at itsmiracleseason.co.
00:41:25
Speaker
Don't forget to follow Debbie and all of her amazing work.
00:41:29
Speaker
Talk to you guys soon.
00:41:30
Speaker
This was an amazing episode.
00:41:32
Speaker
Take a talk to my guests.
00:41:36
Speaker
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger.
00:41:40
Speaker
If you enjoyed today's conversation and found it insightful, please consider sharing this episode with a friend, a co-worker, or someone who can benefit from these insightful discussions.
00:41:50
Speaker
Your support helps us reach more listeners as we continue to foster meaningful dialogues about the diverse subcultures of American life.
00:41:57
Speaker
I'm Eric Bigger, reminding you that every conversation has the power to broaden perspectives and foster connection.
00:42:03
Speaker
Until next time, keep embracing the unexpected on Bigger Talks.