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EP. 72: Redshirting Kindergarten Part 2: How Do I Know If I Should Delay Kindergarten?
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The principal is BACK. Part 1 or 2 with principal, educator and friend of the pod: Jon Arens. We are answering all ALL your questions about learning to read and starting kindergarten.
Questions YOU asked and we discuss in these two episodes:
🧠 Decision-Making Factors
- What factors would make you consider redshirting as a good fit aside from age alone?
- Is it better to make the decision based on academic readiness or emotional/maturity?
- Does birth order influence the choice?
- Does research show it’s better to hold back a boy vs. a girl?
- Where do we draw the line? (March birthdays redshirted)
- HELP! 4YO July Bday. Language/reasoning/comm 💯, Social-emotional 😱
⚖️ Pros, Cons & Impact
- What are the top 3 signs to redshirt?
- Long-term implications of 6–7-year-olds in K — does it raise expectations too much for 4–5-year-olds?
- Is fear of “boredom causing behavior issues” a reason NOT to redshirt?
- Can kids get bumped up a grade if it ends up not being a good fit?
💡 Situational Scenarios
- My child is smart, early Aug birthday, but can’t sit still and struggles to participate.
- My child can read since 2.5 and is advanced in math but struggles emotionally (Sept bday).
- Late August birthday — can tell social/emotional differences but not academic ones.
- Very extroverted, very tall, late July birthday, reading level H — teacher says she’s okay.
- Twins with developmental delay — early intervention or more time?
- Late birthday + IEP for ADHD — repeat K or will the IEP be enough for 1st?
📍 District/Policy Questions
- Why don’t some schools (like CPS) allow redshirting?
- Is it allowed in every school district? Is it really up to parents?
- NYC with a Dec 31 cutoff — is that developmentally inappropriate?
🛠 Practical Tips
- I’m holding my son back (Aug 17) and sending him to TK — tips for avoiding regression?
- We’re redshirting KG but likely going to 1st — what should we focus on?
- Should we repeat kinder in a multi-age class (K/1) or switch to a different class?
- When would you do it?
😅 Other
- I already did it. How do I explain it to him?
- How common is this?
- Did it — bad idea. Had to fight to skip ahead due to immature classmates.
- My answers as a principal were easier than as a parent.
Recommended
Transcript
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00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:44
Speaker
Yes. Are you scared? The topic du jour. So, okay.
Understanding Kindergarten Redshirting
00:00:50
Speaker
So kindergarten red shirting is simply delaying kindergarten entry often for a late summer or early fall birthday.
00:00:59
Speaker
um I think a bit of the history is in college sports roots. So kids are going to school later and maybe bigger and stronger, um,
00:01:13
Speaker
ah what's, what's your definition and why do you think it's such a, um, big topic? Well, I think it's always existed in some way, especially tied to like the size of your kid, not necessarily like their developmental milestones. I think, you know, I had friends growing up that were, that I remember learning were older like much later, you know, like when you're turning 21 and you like one of your friends like randomly 21 already, you know, like, and um that I feel like that's when you you would find that out about your friend or when they were 18 and they were like already 18. Yeah.
00:01:55
Speaker
yeah What happened here? And it was always some sort of growth thing. So like I had friends that, you know, were on Um, like I later found out like growth hormones and things like that, if they were like really little or they felt that they were small, um, going into, and then they would like hold them back. So I think historically you would see more kids get held back for, um, like their physical size. And then I think, um,
00:02:23
Speaker
up until like the advent of like pretty significant speech services. I think that like speech was probably a big one that yeah parents used as like a barometer if their kid was ready. Um, and then now it's a lot of like, I feel like emotional regulation skills, which is to me problematic because I think you know, it's a totally different environment. So you're withholding them from like the environment where they would be learning those skills necessarily.
Evaluating Children's Needs Objectively
00:02:55
Speaker
So I'm not a really big proponent of holding back students. um You know, I know that it still happens, but from a policy perspective, a lot of school districts just don't won't do it unless there's some like medical reason for it you know i've had kids that were born um like super premature that um got held back i know um that's one of the only situations that i'm aware of in my practice where it happened um but i think that
00:03:28
Speaker
I think that it's so it' a really important thing to look at objectively with your kid and not in the context of like their friends and things like that. There's always gonna be kids that are way bigger than your kid.
00:03:42
Speaker
And there's always gonna be kids that you know randomly learned how to read or spoke really early or walked really early. Yeah. yeah there you know this is an inevitable going to come up, but like, go watch the the baby race episode of Louie, where the words like that that that episode could be scaled to any age of kids.
00:04:07
Speaker
And I think that that's just one of those things that you really have to think about like what is the need that you're trying to accommodate and is it important is it so important that it requires you know ah year delay for your job so um I would imagine that since 2004, when special education really you know started taking shape in the current form that it is when IDEA was instituted, i would say that there's probably a pretty direct correlation, like an inverse relationship between the amount of kids that are being held back or starting late and the increase in funding and access to special education services.
Role of Special Education in Reducing Redshirting
00:04:57
Speaker
because
00:04:58
Speaker
really the point of one of the major points of special education from just a pure impact perspective is making sure that kids don't get held back and that don't have to start so people don't really think about special education that way but I would guess that those graphs are like exact opposite um yeah I think that that's been one of the um kind of like under under talked about benefits of the increase in special education services, especially speech services, i would say, you know, like speech is, you know, you have birth to three speech, which can be like really comprehensive speech services, like working with your pediatrician early on that. Yeah. Um,
00:05:41
Speaker
you know, getting, getting OT for your kid early if they need it. Those types of things can be accommodated a, in a really substantial way. And, and funded too. A lot of them are publicly funded and that you can send your kid this grade that they're supposed to be in, you know, like that. yeah um We do a lot of like corrective grade changes.
00:06:05
Speaker
i feel like in, you know The school that I i worked at was had like a multi-age grade band.
00:06:17
Speaker
One of weird benefits of having that, which doesn't exist very many places, but we were able to retroactively correct great grade bumps and i but hold back sometimes without the kid knowing or like their peers knowing.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I always enjoyed doing that because it I could feel the kid's response to it. And I guess my biggest you know argument for for not holding your kid back would be that I've never been in a meeting with a kid that was held back and they were like, no, keep me here.
00:06:56
Speaker
yeah you know like they're never They never say that. They're always like, oh, thank God I'm going to like where I'm supposed to be or like I wanted this for so long. Or a parent will be like, I made a mistake and I shouldn't – you know, that that is – 95% of the conversations around this down the line are all like, I shouldn't have done this.
00:07:15
Speaker
So I think that the services and the needs, if you really focus in on them and talk talk to the district and talk to the you know school psychologist and your pediatrician, um i think most of them are going to tell you to keep them in the grade that they're they're supposed to be in and then just provide services around that.
00:07:38
Speaker
Right. Well, and that's I think that's the thing that people don't think about. One, withholding kids back, like is is are they going to get the need met that they're struggling with? Or are you thinking that just repeating the same thing that you did this year twice is going to make it stick? That's...
00:07:56
Speaker
Not usually how it works. Like usually if it's like a big reading struggle, then the plan should be, okay, he's going to get pulled out for reading time with the reading specialist. Here's the plan, but he's still going to go with his class or he needs speech. But like, it's not usually if there's a struggle with a child, usually there needs to be a really specific plan instead of just, let's just try the same thing again and see if it sticks this time.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's the really nice thing about these personal reading plans in Wisconsin and like you know what they're doing in other states too is that there's a now there's a non-special education route that doesn't require an evaluation to qualify for what amounts to being you know additional services. And I think that that And there's no stigma, you know, theres the stigma around special education has really gone away.
00:08:49
Speaker
i think it's like 10, 15 years, which is great, but it still exists. And parents are occasionally, you know, not receptive to the idea of their kid even being evaluated for special education.
00:09:04
Speaker
And, you know, I very rarely put an evaluation through for ah kid that where the parent is not on board because ultimately the parent has to, you know, a kid can be found to be to meet criteria for special education, but the services being provided is actually like a consent that the parents have to sign.
00:09:23
Speaker
So the kids would be labeled as special education eligible, but they wouldn't be getting special ed services because you ultimately have to have consent from one parent in order to get those services going. So I think that having additional routes, especially for reading, is really important.
00:09:42
Speaker
I think the stigma around speech is... largely gone away. yeah seems like It seems like there's so many people with speech. I tell people all the time, you know, speech teachers are amazing. they They're like the super special education teacher. They do so much.
00:09:56
Speaker
They're always like, you know, 40, 50 kids and they just like get them in and get them out. they are yes They're amazing. They're usually really, really good at paperwork too. So that's always nice. But they're really these like autonomous machines and they they're great. So I, I, um, especially with kids that have like high speech needs, like if your district offers you like comprehensive speech services, take them because, you know, you can't get them other places, you know, like, um, I've had, I've had a kid, ah had a kid once that we,
00:10:39
Speaker
that had access to a really comprehensive speech program in K-4 versus going to school full-time in K-4 and then getting like your normal amount of speech.
00:10:53
Speaker
And in that situation, I recommended grabbing the extra speech services at that time because it was like three hours a day of comprehensive speech services versus, ah wow you know, 4K full day, which is a lot about just learning how to go to school and what school is. Yeah.
00:11:11
Speaker
That kid did so well in speech that i would imagine he's probably in a place where he would get dismissed, you know, like first, second grade from speech.
00:11:22
Speaker
Wow.
Speech Services in Early Childhood
00:11:23
Speaker
Yeah. So that was ah that was a situation I remember that was really like instrumental to to my thoughts on that like holding back or like pushing forward process. And I think...
00:11:36
Speaker
speeches Speech is the big one, I think. I think speech is the one that is the most parents get really frustrated about and anxious about and work with their pediatrician about. you know There's obviously lots of bare milestones with physical development like crawling and things like that. But again, those are things that you know pediatric OTs can can work with.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. and then like the sensory stuff and all the emotional stuff that stuff can really be handled in a school environment i mean like you can get aba therapy you can get um lots of different types of you can get play therapy and and all different types of things like that on the side but i don't know that i would ever recommend using you know the emotional regulation skills that are being displayed at home as like your barometer for if they're going to be able to emotionally regulate in a classroom full of kids.
00:12:35
Speaker
ae Yeah. I think you're not going to like what I'm about to say, but people are redshirting for lesser reasons.
Social Benefits and Trends in Redshirting
00:12:43
Speaker
Like, like they're big, the big,
00:12:46
Speaker
huge I mean, I posted a video about like kindergarten. Your kids are going to learn these things in kindergarten. Why do you want redshirt? And I got upwards of 3000 comments on Tik TOK saying I'm a kindergarten teacher and I highly recommend redshirting. Why are we rushing kids childhood?
00:13:03
Speaker
Why are we taking away? Why can't we give them an extra year of childhood? Like hold them back as long as you can. Teacher here, recommend this principal here, recommend this. And first of all, I'm like,
00:13:14
Speaker
Just for no reason. You just just like, that's the big thing. Like childhood. Don't you think they're going enjoy school? That's also part of childhood. But like, what are your thoughts? I mean, it's a very personal decision. There's no like rule. There's no real like laws around it.
00:13:30
Speaker
You know, I get the sports argument, I guess. Oh, you do. That's nice. That's generous of you. I mean, if you if you're like that, they do all kinds of, um, like reclassifications and things like that in high school now for, for, Oh, so it might not even matter.
00:13:49
Speaker
It, it doesn't even really matter to do it that early because you can reclassify when you're in high school. If it's like really that important to you. Um, I guess it is important to some people like Taylor Swift's mom named her Taylor Swift in case she was famous. She thought it was a good famous name. So I guess people are thinking ahead. Yeah.
00:14:07
Speaker
I mean, it's tough. It, it, I like the whole concept of like another year of childhood. i mean, then i would question like, what is childhood? the childhood is the childhood that you're like or whatever the thing is that you're providing like so amazing that like it can't be replicated in any other time of the year like never after 3 p.m absolutely no childhood is happening after 3 p.m yeah like no if yeah if your kid like your your kids is like not catching ladybugs anymore you don't do like movies outside on like the garage door you don't like go on mud hikes or like catch frogs or like like
00:14:53
Speaker
you know, stay out in the rain? Like, what what is the thing that is being withheld by them going to school for seven hours a day? You know, so I don't... And like, that is part of their childhood. Like, ah school is... There's a big social element to the school of day that I, you know, I guess I could understand it. If you if you were, you know...
00:15:16
Speaker
you know If you were one of those families that was like schlepping their kids around trying to see like every national park before they're six and you got like a big rig and like you're doing that whole thing and your kids are you know being homeschooled or or whatever and and that's like the lifestyle that you're doing, i guess I could like wrap my head around it because part of me has always been like I would love to do that.
00:15:38
Speaker
yeah But the other side... But also you can kind of... Sorry, do the other side. to No, I mean, but on the other side, like i just yeah, I agree with you that there's there's a whole, there's like a whole social element of like figuring out like your friends and like who you want to play with and like,
00:15:56
Speaker
meeting kids in your neighborhood and like meeting kids through activities. You can't just meet them through activities. You got to meet them in like structured settings. And then like learning how to like take instruction and take direction from someone you're not related to is pretty much like the only thing you learn in K4. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's, that's like the whole point of K4. There's no really other learning goals. It's like, will you listen to another adult that you didn't live with?
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah. You know, i was, i have a summer birthday and I was not red shirted. I probably would be so much more successful if I had been. Um, no, I'm just kidding, but I'm glad because I do remember, like I have, I hear whenever I hear that a child is seven, i like hear this moment from my own childhood of this man. I was in like an antique shop with my mom and in the summertime, my birthday's in the summer,
00:16:50
Speaker
And this man that worked there said, how old are you? And my mom said, and I was very shy. And she said, she's, um, she's seven. It was like the week before my birthday. And he was like, only seven.
00:17:03
Speaker
You're so tall. And, and my mom said, not even seven. Her birthday next week. And anytime I hear someone say that they're seven, I hear that man say only seven. And I remember being like mortified that I was that tall. I was probably like five, nine as a seven year old.
00:17:19
Speaker
And Not really, but like imagine if I had been redshirted and I then had my growth spurt.
Community Norms and Redshirting Decisions
00:17:25
Speaker
I was self-conscious my entire childhood about how tall I was.
00:17:30
Speaker
I was always taller than all the boys. I just you just like as a girl like that feels like when you're developing and you're like learning that it just like feels like, you know, the teacher would say like, oh, Beth is the tallest in the class. Like if I had been redshirted, what a nightmare.
00:17:44
Speaker
I would have had so much more stress about being tall. Yeah. I, yeah. I mean, I just, I think it also, probably very like community based too. Like I'm sure there's like certain parts of the country or there are like certain communities where it's like more common.
00:18:02
Speaker
But, you know, I, I do think that, you know, from what I have seen there, there are plenty of districts that just say like, we don't, we just like, don't do that. Like we don't bump gifts forward and we don't,
00:18:16
Speaker
you know, push them back. And that's kind of like a call that like a superintendent can just make. Really? They don't have to provide any rationale for it either. They can just say like, we don't really do that here. And I guess you could like go to war over it. But, you know, like I i think it's,
00:18:36
Speaker
There's not enough like benefits to it that I've seen unless there's like a really, really good, you know, services based reason like that, like comprehensive speech reason like that. to me, that is like the thing that I will never forget is like that that, that family was deciding between basically giving their kid access to like the best speech programming that they could have access to for free, you know, and then hitting that one issue so profoundly so that it wasn't,
00:19:12
Speaker
something that had to get taken care of over the next like four years in school. And maybe he would be done within like one to two years, you know, it was kind of like yeah getting braces early or something like that. You know, like one of those types of things where it's like, you just like, when do you want to do this?
00:19:28
Speaker
And yeah, I think there's a lot of ways to give kids, you know, the childhood or, you know, whatever you want to say, but yeah, I,
00:19:40
Speaker
I don't know. I, my, my kids all went to full day 3k. So I, well, yeah, that's okay. very much believe it think it's a good thing. And I think that they've all benefited from it.
00:19:52
Speaker
So here's another drama that happened on the internet. And then I'm going to have you do rapid fire questions from our audience. um But the drama on the internet, once I mentioned like, first of all, this is an incredible privilege that not everyone has this, um,
00:20:07
Speaker
to face You know, there it's a lot of people like have to send their kids to kindergarten on time because they their job. They have a job that they can't like juggle the daycare transitions with.
00:20:21
Speaker
And oh, you wouldn't believe how hurt the teacher's feelings were that I so that they said, this is so offensive that you would say that people should send their kids to kindergarten because their parents have to work.
00:20:32
Speaker
School is not daycare. which of course we know it's not, but it also, it, it people parents do rely on school for their needs. And, and again, I guess like saying school is not daycare. Of course, no one is saying that a teacher is a daycare worker and also like daycare week workers are amazing. And, but there's just, you know, I think it's like one of those things that like, you never, you're going to offend someone no matter what you say.
00:20:58
Speaker
um but what are your, what are your thoughts on that?
00:21:03
Speaker
yeah,
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it also depends on like the law. i mean, like in Wisconsin, the compulsory age is six. So like you have to send your kid to school when they're six. And we do you do see people that wait until they're six to send their kid to school.
00:21:22
Speaker
And does that seem to be hard on the kid? I think so. i mean, I think it's a really, i think it's hard if you are running and going into a room as a six year old and, um, you know, there's kids in that room who have been within the school structure and, um, understand how schools work for two and a half years before you, mean,
00:21:46
Speaker
aen my kids were all in school when they were three, know, and then there's like a kid in six that is coming in.
Benefits of Early School Entry
00:21:55
Speaker
Who's never been in school before. You can't tell me that that kid is just going like immediately adjust to everything.
00:22:01
Speaker
Right. And I think that allowing kids to adjust to school, however you feel about, you know, the existence of school or the structure of school, it is a public service that all kids have access to. Um, and that's just how our country runs and it's not it's not something that's gonna change.
00:22:19
Speaker
i mean like The most variable forms of school happen in like the preschool model. There's outdoor preschools. you know There's you know half day preschools. there' You can pick your days of the week preschools. And yeah then and in preschool, um yeah, it is and is like childcare to some extent, but it's also a blend of childcare and like early intervention too. i mean like If you send your kid to score,
00:22:45
Speaker
um you know, there's people at the school who are going to be monitoring, you know, developmental milestones for you. So you're not the only data point that's just, you know, saying something.
00:22:57
Speaker
So youre you, it's, it doesn't fall completely on you to notice if something is, you know, not necessarily wrong, but like delayed or need some extra support.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like what parent wouldn't want that additional set of eyes on something. It's kind of like having, you know, a pediatrician around your kid all day. yeah specific for like, non medical things, you know, like you, sometimes you just don't realize if your kid needs something. um Yeah, unless other people are are watching it. And so I think that, you know, if you if you can send your kid to school, and for like a full day, and sometimes they even like do stuff that they wouldn't do at home, you know, like my kids always napped at school, which was crazy.
00:23:42
Speaker
because they stopped napping when they were like two and a half at home yeah so um they would nap at school so that was to me that was amazing um and i know that that's actually very common that kids will you know have, you know, things that you think you might have, like, the ship has sailed on for you, if it's napping, or, you know, like, quiet time, or, you know, please and thank you, you know, like, those things can be reinforced at the school level, um even if they're not, like, fully showing back up at home.
00:24:17
Speaker
So, yeah yeah, I think that that, like I said, there's, There's too many people that I encounter down the road that say they wish they hadn't done it.
00:24:32
Speaker
And that's one of my main data points for it is that you you very rarely hear people that were like, this was the good decision. It's a huge decision. But the amount of people that I have come to me and ask for retroactive changes to that decision,
00:24:49
Speaker
far surpasses the people who come to me and they were like, you know, this is good or like, I'm glad that we did this. You know, those situations are always somewhat tied towards like super premature. I'm talking like 20 weeks, like those types of kids and then kids that have some like substantial communication need.
00:25:11
Speaker
That was my nephew. He had a substantial communication need. Like, I think he was like a full year delayed and they did. And he has a summer birthday and they did red shirt him and they have a great experience.
00:25:22
Speaker
And I will say, I didn't mention this, but I'm like, not like for or against, like, I think everything is like going to be case by case. And yeah it's your right as a parent to decide. i think that it just should be rooted in something service related.
00:25:35
Speaker
I just don't think that it should be rooted in something that is like a subjective. Just. popular. Yeah. I mean, it's always trendy to do it right now. It seems almost everyone is like, I'm debating it right now for no, for absolutely. Like there's no reason except for that.
00:25:52
Speaker
Somebody said they should debate it. Yeah. So, okay. I'm going to rapid fire these questions to you. See if you can answer them. I'll try to answer them too. Let's see if we can answer them um with yes or no, or one sentence.
00:26:07
Speaker
Okay. right. all right um Seems like a punishment, but okay. I'll do it. i don't We'll see. I don't know. i I haven't looked at all the questions. Okay. Should this be up to the parents alone?
00:26:22
Speaker
The idea of redshirting? Should redshirting kindergarten be up to the parents alone? Yes. Okay. Because, yeah. Because I think that ultimately,
00:26:37
Speaker
you know, as a parent, you do have to have, there has to be like a line in the sand of like what you can decide to do. Right. Um, is it, Oh, does birth order influence the choice in terms of like, like if someone's like, oh this is, yeah, this yeah. Because everyone's second kid is crazy.
00:26:58
Speaker
Um, no. Okay. Does it make a difference if it's a boy or a girl? i would be willing to bet that I don't think it makes a difference, but I would be willing to bet that the holding back kids is skews like 75% boys.
00:27:19
Speaker
i would be weird I would bet that too. um Is it fine to red shirt a May birthday or should it only be June, July, August?
00:27:29
Speaker
I mean, i think, I think August is really like a gray area. Mm-hmm. I think August is a gray area. Okay. And I don't think May, June, July, no.
00:27:42
Speaker
So then the next question answered itself. Where do we draw the line? i have a March birthday kid and I'm trying to decide. March. I mean, I'm like a late April birthday.
00:27:55
Speaker
can't imagine my parents being like, we have a big decision to make. Okay. Um, no, I think, I think August, is i think August is where you can like have some, you know, definite thoughts about it because, you know, there, there might be a kid in their class that is like almost a full year. full year. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, but again, like, that's not a bad thing.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. That's a good thing to remember. can't tell me that all the popularity of the like multi-age units in schools and like that that kind of mod-story type thing, how is that any different than having a kid August and that September?
00:28:38
Speaker
like that That's the same thing. So there's what's the intersection between the parents who love the mod-story model on multied room and rooms and then the same ones who would be like, well, i'm not going to send my kid you know, with an August birthday to this, it's the same thing.
Parental Role in Social Development
00:28:53
Speaker
Like those, those parents are like, would they send their kids to a Montessori school? Cause they're going to be exposed to the exact same situation.
00:29:00
Speaker
That is a great point. Um, this one's help all capital letters, four-year-old July birthday language, reasoning, and communication is 100 social, emotional.
00:29:11
Speaker
and
00:29:14
Speaker
I would ask like, Does this child have siblings? you know Do you live in a neighborhood with lots of kids? Are you going to the park a lot? Are you letting kids make like social mistakes or do you just like hover over?
00:29:32
Speaker
One of my biggest things as a parent when I'm at a park is what if a parent is following the kid onto to the playground equipment, that's not good. Yeah, kids have to be able to take risks.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, you can't you can't be like Like when there's the parrot like way up top on the top of the playground thing, I'm like, what are you doing, man? Just like get of there. Or like even intervening in fights. Like I was talking to my sister about this and she's like, do I just like let the fights happen sometimes? Like I'm like worried they're going to kill each other. like you yeah Like on the playground, I think I'd probably like my administrative go. Right. To like play.
00:30:11
Speaker
But the, yeah, like you, there's There's a certain amount of of, you know, like, if you're worried about how your kid is going to be social, emotional, emotional,
00:30:25
Speaker
Is it just a reflection on how they are socially, emotionally at home? Or is it like based on something with, you know, how they are in situation that would be similar to school? Like, have you ever sent them to a camp? Have they ever played like a team sport?
00:30:41
Speaker
Have they ever, you know, had they ever gone to like a like a group structured activity at like the art museum or something like that? Like if if those things are going horribly all the time,
00:30:53
Speaker
then even then I don't know that I would take them back. I think I would just seek out, you know, ABA or like play therapy or see if there's some sort of like sensory need there through like an occupational therapist consult.
00:31:06
Speaker
aye Because, again, that I just don't think that that that should be like the piece of the puzzle that holds a kid back. Yeah, it seems like it's like the red shirting idea is like but not this is maybe a bad example, but like just going to like a medication instead of like, OK, what other things could we try? Should we change diet? Should we change exercise? You know, like not not necessarily saying like with a kid with ADHD, but like in general, like just being like, OK, let's this is the problem. It's like there are other things to try before we go and say, let's just do this whole thing.
00:31:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, how how different how much different is it from like a lot of the, you know, one of the most common barriers for a kid to be like in child care is are like they like potty trained?
Accommodating Developmental Delays in Schools
00:31:53
Speaker
You know, like how is that any different from how we're responding to some of these you know needs? You know, even if your kid is not potty trained, if they're the compulsory age of education in the state that you live in, the school has to be able to accommodate that Yeah, yeah.
00:32:10
Speaker
If they're younger than the age, it's kind of up to the school to decide if they you know have the staffing and the support in place to do it in the training. And that's like a more variable discussion. But like if your kid is not potty trained and you're trying to decide if they're you should like send them to kindergarten.
00:32:29
Speaker
If they're six or they're the age that they're required to be at school, the school will have to work with that. And they will have to figure out like a team of people to be trained to support that. And also that happens in literally every school.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. Always kids that are working on that. um Talk to any janitor in any elementary school in America and they will tell you exactly where and how they clean up urine in every single floor that they have in building.
00:32:57
Speaker
And talk to any kindergarten teacher. Like when I was in a kindergarten classroom, we had. You think there's bathrooms and kindergarten rooms. Right, exactly. um okay I'm going to ask you a few more before I let you go.
00:33:07
Speaker
um Very extroverted, very tall, late July birthday, reading level H. Teacher said she's okay, but I still want a red shirt.
00:33:18
Speaker
If the teacher says she's okay, you should trust the teacher. Okay.
00:33:23
Speaker
Especially if it's eat if it's a teacher that you know, has been doing it for a little bit and has some context for, you know, like community, you know, is are you in one of these communities where like everyone's tall, you know, like I, I'm from, you know my hometown has lots of tall people and I'm not like short, but I was definitely like on the lower end of my friends. I always felt like, and I'm, know, like almost six feet tall, but like there, if you're from one of these communities where like everyone is,
00:33:54
Speaker
like Nordic and giant, you know, yeah that you have to like put that into context too. You know, my grandma is from like the South side of Chicago and she used to say all the time that like her, her town,
00:34:10
Speaker
was like full of short people, like short Polish people. And she was like, you guys moved to this town where there's all these like German people and they're all like super hot, like higher. And like, she's like, it's, she's like, go to church. She's like, go to church and just like, why look at, like, I can't even see church.
00:34:30
Speaker
that She would be like, I go to your church and I can't see. I only want to go to my church because then I can actually see what's happening. Oh my gosh. So there's some like community contextualization, I think, to that too. So like if the if the teacher's like, you know, or look at like a class picture, you know, the class pictures come back.
00:34:48
Speaker
Look at the class picture. Like one of my sons is the smallest kid in his class. Yeah. Absolutely. And I don't know how long he's going be the smallest kid, but it doesn't matter. he He's the fastest kid.
00:35:01
Speaker
That's cool. That's fine. Okay, I just saw, ah ah not a question, but one of the things in the box that said, did it, bad idea, had to fight to skip ahead due to immature classmates. He was so much more mature than his classmates.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's a hard thing to, it's much easier to do than to fix. o That would be like one of my big, if you're going to put that on a bumper sticker, like that would be the bumper sticker.
00:35:28
Speaker
I like that. Because doing a redshirt is not hard. trying to fix it or change your mind after you've done it is extremely hard and can be traumatic to you and your kid and their peers and things like that.
00:35:44
Speaker
So, yeah. So I, someone asked like top three signs that you should register. I think we kind of talked about that, like a developmental, like a yeah delay. like I would say like act like the,
00:36:00
Speaker
the i say my number one would be like a recommendation from, you know, like your pediatrician or a therapist, um, for comprehensive programming for speech would be like my number one, um,
00:36:17
Speaker
Second one would be, you know, if they're under the age of, um, compulsory education and they're not consistently toilet trained, I would say is two, um, that could also be one, two.
00:36:31
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, third one would be like, if there, if there's some sort of like medical thing, like a super premature birth situation where, or, um,
00:36:44
Speaker
That would be one.
Health Needs and School Readiness
00:36:45
Speaker
Oh, I have a fourth one. So type one diabetes, you, in order to have a continuous glucose monitor, you have to be a certain weight. I think it's 50 pounds.
00:36:56
Speaker
If your kid is not 50 pounds, and i've I've dealt with this situation last year, and i'vet and it was a really important system that we designed to accommodate this kid that was not old enough to have a continuous glucose monitor.
00:37:11
Speaker
But that was the situation where they were deciding on a red shirt based on his ability to wear something that was a life-saving device.
00:37:22
Speaker
So, um we We made the system work, even though he wasn't six, um but it took a lot of work to design and like get up.
00:37:33
Speaker
Not to say that it couldnt it could have been a situation where you know the school and the parents would be like, this is not, you know I don't feel comfortable or it's like not safe or like there's too many spikes and we don't have and the school's ability to handle this type of thing.
00:37:48
Speaker
That's a totally legit reason, I would say. diabetes-related, continuous glucose weight of the kid-related thing is a totally valid reason to do it. But if that is the situation, i would really encourage families to work with the school to try to come up with some sort of team or plan or or something that would allow for the student to still be able to go to kindergarten.
00:38:15
Speaker
But... You know, I'm, you know, I'm from a family that has diabetics. None of my kids are diabetic. You know, I have worked with lots of families with kids that are type one diabetes, and I know how that can totally change, you know, the.
00:38:34
Speaker
like how you approach the day. Another one that would be common, sorry, keep adding to the numbers would be like epilepsy. If you have a kid that is epileptic, which we you know, every administrator has had, and you have like safety plans and safety teams, if if you're not comfortable sending your kid to school because of like their response to a seizure, if they have certain types of seizures that are really unsafe, and you just need you know, more comfort and security and knowing like what the team is and, you know, good example would be like, you want to send your kid to school, they have lots of seizures, the school doesn't have a nurse or has like a part time nurse or has just like a health roommate or something like that. And then
00:39:19
Speaker
you know, they've never had a kid that has seizures, you know, like those would be, that'd be like a totally legit reason. So we're the diabetes thing. So I think that my answer for all of these would be, you know, a list of like six things that are really like critical health needs or communication needs that, um, that,
00:39:41
Speaker
would be taken into account. And those families like know who they are. Yeah. They're not like listening to us thinking like, Oh, is that me? And I thought about this before, you know, like, does your, does your, um, kid have like a G tube or something like that? Like something, something that requires some special, special staffing or, you know, public schools are really good at that kind of stuff, but private schools, you know, you're not always going to have that.
00:40:08
Speaker
Um, that's one of the downsides. So, um, So yeah, that, those would be all my considerations. And like said, those people know who they are and they've had that conversation with themselves already. So if you're not in that like bucket of, you know, type one diabetes or G2 or, um, you know, epilepsy or if these like really like tough, traumatic, um, time intensive, you know, emotionally exhausting things, you know, to be in this pyramid, like,
00:40:41
Speaker
you should just feel lucky that that's like not your situation like because those parents are constantly thinking about that kind of stuff yeah those are the parents that i feel like are really having the big you know um not like ideological thoughts about it but like logistic functionality thoughts about it yeah so if you're if you find your thoughts to be dwelling on more like functionality and safety and things like that then yeah like have a conversation with the principal and like the people services team or yeah the school psychologist about those concerns and that would be my biggest but if you're if your thoughts are more like ideological or like subjective then i would say press pause okay that was a really long answer
00:41:32
Speaker
that Yeah, you violated the game rules, but I'll allow it because I think it'll help some people. Oh, my
Embracing Childhood Beyond Structured Settings
00:41:38
Speaker
gosh. Okay. Hot topic. Hopefully made simple. Thank you for answering all of these questions and hanging with me. I know that this will be well received by everyone.
00:41:49
Speaker
parents of four to six year olds hopefully i think i think what maybe be why i think it will be well well received is because i think there's just so much information just to do it um and you know somebody once said to me i was talking to somebody about summer camp and i was like oh my gosh it's so hard for so many parents like let their kids go away for four weeks because you know that you hear like you only get 18 summers with your kids Um, and, and they're like, you're making their childhood about you and not them.
00:42:20
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, summer camp thing is a real, that's like a very regional specific thing. I mean, it's, it's very popular out East. Um, it's not, it's, it's kind of like, if she,
00:42:33
Speaker
kind of popular in like the northern parts of chicago i know they send like lots of kids yeah um i'm not from the north northern parts i'm from like southwest of chicago so like i didn't know many people that went to camp at all um but there's like a whole subset of like the north suburbs that send their kids up into wisconsin and to god's country yeah they just like leave them and i couldn't even imagine doing that i know um
00:42:59
Speaker
I just couldn't even imagine doing it. But there's like, you know, some people, that's what they did for when they were kids and that's how they met their significant other and like all this stuff like that. So there's like lots of historical stuff that goes into it. There's like religious camps and things like that. So I think that unfortunately all the stuff with the that horrible tragedy like last week with the camp is gonna like throw a lot of that into relief.
00:43:23
Speaker
into relief Yeah. Like a conversation point. But there's that's like a real big thing. That's a real big talking point that I think is going to keep coming up now and it will get even heightened even more.
00:43:40
Speaker
Unfortunately, that's not that how you want to be able to talk about it. But that's going to be a big deal. Yeah, you're right. Save that one. Yeah, save that one for another another day.
00:43:52
Speaker
um But your kids are having their childhood. It's not just happening between 8 and 3. should be. As it turns out, it's happening when they come into your bedroom in the morning and snuggle for a minute before you open your eyes or in the moments when you're at the grocery store laughing about trying to read how they wrote hot dogs or in the car on the way home from school as they're telling you a story of what they learned to do that day.
00:44:19
Speaker
I think we just have this fear that that is like, oh, no, I have to be doing everything perfect. But their childhood is happening in all the minutes of the day.
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah. Childhood happens in like the imperfect moments, too. Right. That's. that's really what summer is supposed to be all about. yeah There's so much structure in the kids days outside of summer.
00:44:45
Speaker
the The more you can, you know, they call it like whatever nineties, nineties kids summer, but it's really, i I really subscribe to that more than i would, you know, like the whole red shirt idea, like really like,
00:45:03
Speaker
Try to give your kids some of that like kind of stuff that you remember. you know like Drop your kids off the library, pick them up at 45 minutes later. you Yeah, say look at the clock right here. Or like hiding behind a bush the whole time. you know like That stuff's good for a parents and for kids. Yeah, you're right. That's a great idea.
00:45:23
Speaker
That's a like on online movement that I'm not opposed to because anyone who knows me as a parent would not be surprised that that's pretty much like how I and do things. I love that.
00:45:33
Speaker
Keep a set of boots and a little aquarium in the back of my car in case the urge ever strikes the kids to go and trudge through something and try to catch up then.
00:45:46
Speaker
I always keep a swimsuit in the back of my car just in case. Yeah. I mean, there's certain things like that, where it's like, if you, if you're ready for that kind of sporadic thing, then you're, you're like doing 75% of the work of like providing that experience. I, I hope my kids remember that, you know, when they're older, is that like, that's like what they always did. They're not going to remember, you know, me like going through like sight words with them or like anything like that. so.
00:46:17
Speaker
Amen. Wow. You're right. So don't stress you're, you're doing it. Your kids are, the kids are going to be fine. Yes. Kids are going to be fine. And just, yeah, try to try to not read too much about it.
00:46:36
Speaker
yeah That's a great, that's a great tip.
00:46:40
Speaker
I like it. Well, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thank you. It was good. Always fun. Yay. We'll have to come up with another big list of things next time the oh things get too hot on the interwebs.
00:46:54
Speaker
I know. I'm always just going to come straight to you.