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Ep 59 - are Forest in the title race? GSPN Title Race crossover special
7 Plays20 days ago
With Forest 2nd at the end of the year, Marley joins the GSPN Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man City teams to state the case for Forest in the title race.
Can Liverpool maintain their lead at the top without having to play Darwin Nunez?
Can Pep turn things around for City before the inevitable relegation to League 1?
And will Arteta survive the season before Tony Pulis arrives at the Emirates?
Can Nuno keep the tall guy in defence fit and maintain Forest's unlikely challenge?
https://www.instagram.com/gspnforest
https://www.tiktok.com/@gspndailyforest4
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https://www.youtube.com/@GSPNDailyForest
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Banter
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Daily Liverpool Podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. I'm your host today, Jesse Sauer for this special title race episode to bring or help bring in the new year. So in today's episode, we're going to be looking at how this season's title race is shaping up and what our predictions and expectations are for the rest of this fascinating season. Joining me on today's pod, I'm delighted to welcome Josh from the Tony Pulis Tribute Act, known as the Daily Arsenal podcast team. How are you doing, Josh? Not bad at all. where We're very honored to be considered a stokanal these days. Here's your baseball cap. See if I can find one. And we've got Jack from the Daily Man City podcast.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's great to be, I was waiting for this invite patiently. I did not think it was going to come at some point, but yeah, I feel like, yeah, I feel like Ronaldo still getting invited to Ballon d'Or ceremonies these days. I'm here on merit. yeah And a drum roll, please, ah because we've got set Marley from the daily Nottingham forest podcast team in a title race special. Marley, how's it going, mate?
00:01:26
Speaker
It feels great to be in a top five episode for the Premier League and not for the Championship for once. It also feels great that we've got six-time European champions, two-time European champions, one-time European champions, and then we've got Arsenal.
00:01:43
Speaker
Jesse, can we have that one every time? I'll tell you what, that was early. Can you hold by that psychedelic background?
00:01:52
Speaker
Miley's come to play. Okay. um that's like yeah cap Where's that baseball cap? I didn't want to have to bring out early, but have any of you been unbeaten in a season? I didn't think and About 43 points, I think that was.
Managerial Challenges and Strategies
00:02:06
Speaker
ah for All right, it's great to have all of you on the episode. Lots to discuss because it has been a season of change. We've had new managers come in like Arnie Slott and Enzo Mareska doing well at the moment with Liverpool and Chelsea. Established managers like Pep Guardiola struggling.
00:02:26
Speaker
left scratching his head really forcefully sometimes at City's a dramatic slump this season and teams like Forrest, Fulham and Bournemouth doing really well playing some really really good football. Now I was going to go through each team in order of Premier League position but Partly out of respect for our current champions and partly because you know, I was concerned that Jack's internet connection may suddenly go down man city Jack look a lot has been said a lot has been written about cities
00:03:02
Speaker
drop this season. We did our first title race special this season, about mid-November, I think it was. yeah yeah Have you been surprised at how bad this run has been? You know, albeit City 1 at the weekend, 2-0. Was it on the cards even back then? or is it Because for me, as a look as the Liverpool supporter, every week I thought, all right, this is the game where they're going to turn it round. This is the game where the where the bad end run Run ends yes you tell me your thoughts i mean look it's definitely been a change of pace you know from what we used to we're not used to winning ah you know one thirty nine two and thirty and forty but it's definitely expected in terms of our our form over the past few seasons but.
00:03:50
Speaker
I mean, for whatever reason, you know myself and you know a few of the other match going fans that I know, not necessarily completely wrapped up in worry about it. It's been a massive shock in terms of you know we've lost a lot of games that we shouldn't have been losing. But the gaps that were in our form right at the start, you know the last time we did this this title challenging podcast when it was just kind of the start of that yeah horrible you know run of form, the gaps there are still present.
00:04:20
Speaker
And it's still you know they they they still need fixing. So it's not like it's it's going to be fixed just by playing more games. Because in this run of form, all that's happened is we've suffered some more injuries. We're still playing the same way. We've still got the same issues in midfield. We're slow. We're sluggish. We've got 34-year-olds pressing in midfield next to 18, 19-year-old and kind of unexperienced Premier League players. It's not been an ideal season by any stretch. but I've never once during this run thought about coming for Peps Head at all. I've never had any serious doubts or worries about him and and and frankly I think that any fan that has been kind of you know
00:05:03
Speaker
kind of prolific in this pep out brigade is is a bit stupid. I just think that if anyone's got credit in a bank, it's the man that's just won the title four years in a row, including a treble winning season, you know, a centurion season, a formidable season.
Man City's Season Struggles and Youth Integration
00:05:21
Speaker
okay yeah it's a bad run of form but in 10 games that all suddenly goes out the window not not for me i don't think so and what i am happy now is that we don't have any more games before the january transfer window is open and we can start to look at the issues that we've had and hopefully remedy them hopefully fix some of the glaring problems that in our squad and that is you know I hate to to dump it all on on injuries but that is who has been available to us and and I think if we can get a couple of more players in and then we'll start to see a little bit more of that rejuvenated Man City squad because it's not it's not a case of this this team is disappeared. We look at
00:06:00
Speaker
some of the players that we've still got on the quality is still there. I mean, obviously, Marley, you'll know, our one win in that form was against Nottingham Forest and and I was at that game and it was it was sort of vintage city in that we looked in control from minute one to minute 90. So, it's not a case of that it we've dropped off the face of the earth and we're never going to come back. It was just a kind of, you know, a personnel issue, I think.
00:06:23
Speaker
I think it's almost like a perfect storm yeah situation. all I've always said it's it's been a culmination of many, many problems over the last few seasons. And some of that is very much self-inflicted. Pep Guardiola has come out in recent years and said he prefers a smaller squad. And that's absolutely fine when they're all fit. But you have a season like this, when it's injury after injury after injury, it happens in football and suddenly that small squad looks problematic.
00:06:49
Speaker
And it's amazing how quickly it can change. I mean, you talk about Pep Guardiola and I haven't heard too many calls for his head, although I have heard so it from some quarters. And it does remind me of when Liverpool had a similar experience a few seasons ago.
00:07:07
Speaker
where we had injury after injury after injury the midfield just kind of died on their legs and it was an accumulation of things and i didn't hear a ah the thought never crossed my mind that clock, never ever, because the the basics and the fundamentals are still there. yeah And I do think that I don't think that this is a one transfer, ah sorry, one transfer window ah issue. I think it's going to take at least two. and wheres the big one somewhere yeah um is the big yeah Because the the problem with January is
00:07:45
Speaker
who's available. Yeah. And as anyone who is available, you're going to have premium forums. yeah premium and And they've all got their targets they're fighting for. They're fighting for whether they're fighting for the Champions League or or a title or top four Champions League qualification. So all of these teams, they do have their own targets. But so just to drill down a little bit into some of the senior players at Man City then.
00:08:10
Speaker
Do you think that Pep still trusts some of his he's kind of senior lieutenants and that they trust him? The likes of Karl Walker, Edison, who's been in and out of the team, and he's been such a he's been such a central part of their build-up play, Edison. you know Forget that he's a goalkeeper.
00:08:29
Speaker
But just that guy who starts everything off, Jack Grealish doesn't look happy. Is this just results? Okay, bad results equals unhappy players. Or do you think that there's something else there as well?
00:08:42
Speaker
I think there is something else there. And I think that Pep has his favorites. He has his favorite sons in a way. And, and you know, Kyle Walker, Bernardo Silva, OK Gundogan, they've all been his kind of favorite sons in that regard. and And regardless of their personal form, he will persist in playing them. And that sometimes does cause some squad harmonies. And, and you know, you you look at some of the reliable players in our team, Kevin De Bruyne, you know,
00:09:09
Speaker
His hamstrings now are made of cheese, so we we we can't really rely on him to give us 30 games at cs and um you know the the ten fifteen a-15 season that he does play, he's phenomenal. but It's a case of you can't rely on him. And I think another issue is one of those senior players, Ilkay Gundogan, was probably brought in and in the summer transfer window with the the kind of intention to not play that many games this season. And and through fate will have it. He's played nearly every available minute because he's had to. And he's looked really, really poor because of it.
00:09:43
Speaker
but because he's asked to fill in a role in Rodtree that he was capable of doing three, four seasons ago really well, and now he's not you know not so capable of doing that. So like you said at the beginning, it's a culmination of errors. it's It's a kind of cacophony of chaos, if you will. I mean, it's just one thing after another and it's all piled on top of each other. that And I think there is squad harmonies because Pep does have his favourites and he does want to utilise the more senior players in a room like this because he doesn't want to put the burden on those younger players. But if you look at a game at the weekend, like when we played against Leicester and we won 2-0, okay, we weren't brilliant in that game at all. But a young player came in the 65 minute mark, James McEighty, and completely changed the game.
00:10:27
Speaker
And that's a player who's played eight games this season and he's our most energetic and and capable midfielder to fill that gap in. But I feel like he's quite intent on putting the onus on the senior players to turn this around because he doesn't want to put maybe these young players in the firing line. So, I mean, there is situations where it's like, how do you tell Pep Guardiola you know the man who lives and breathes football that you know more about football more than him but in one of these such cases the fans were right to say give james mackity a chance see what you can do you know no one's going to put the blame on him if it goes wrong but just let him have a little run out
00:11:05
Speaker
Do you think he's kind of held back with Macatee a little bit because of the problems? I say problems kind of loosely but like Rico Lewis has really struggled recently so do you think he's maybe being a little bit more cautious with those younger players seeing how throwing players like Lewis and even Bob to an extent has kind of impacted them a bit?
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. And I also think that, you know, when you look at our Leicester game, he made a straight sub swap for Phil Foden, who was playing on that right hand side. And we saw James McAfee operate a little bit further out wide, which was was kind of new to me because you would have thought, okay, these issues in the midfield, let him go and have that in the midfield. But maybe you're starting to think that, okay, Pep views McAfee as a little bit more of a wide creator, which we certainly haven't been kind of expecting. so I do think that there is a lot of kind of, you know, expectation on these young players and he doesn't want to put a lot of that burden. But I also think that maybe there's so much to do with the profile that he thinks that he sees in training from these players and where he thinks they're best capable of playing. So, yeah, no one knows about it in part, but we we'll see. Hopefully he gets more minutes. That's all I'll say. Well, you mentioned the January transfer window, Jack.
00:12:20
Speaker
City obviously have urgent needs you know all around the pitch, but what do you think is the priority? And realistically, you know who do you think they're going to go for and and who do you think they can get? and And don't be afraid of upsetting me as a Liverpool fan.
00:12:38
Speaker
well Well, what I will say is what I really want from sitting in the January transfer window is to buy some players who they would normally buy in the summer transfer window anyway. Don't be panic buying just for the sake of our situation because these are going to be long term purchase options. So I think, yeah, you said it at the risk of upsetting yourself and some Liverpool fans. I do think the priority is going to be supermendy. You know how tough it is persuading Basque players to come out of the Basque country and play anywhere else. It can happen now. exactly Yeah, well, I mean, regardless of regardless of the release clause, getting those Spaniards out of Spain is like an impossible task. So I think he's going to be top priority. There's been rumours about Bruno Gamaré over the course of the season, whether that's concrete enough to go in for for him in in January is another thing. Whether Newcastle even still have these FFP issues is another thing.
00:13:30
Speaker
But I do think we're going to look at two to three players in January, which is something that we've never really done before. It's usually one player. And you look at our January transfer windows in the past, we've had Laporte who came in January, who came in and changed our season completely and turned that run around. So hopefully it's a bit of a catalyst. But I don't think there's going to be anything that we do in January that's going to be enough to turn around the season. But I think we can we can get back on to winning ways.
00:13:58
Speaker
I think the other thing about City, you mentioned about panic buying. They're not a club that historically, and certainly under this new ownership, have ever done that. So even if they buy one player or three players or four players, ah they tend to be targeted, well thought out transfers that they've been targeting for a while. And Subramendi,
00:14:22
Speaker
As much as it pains me to say it, I do think that City will get him. I think that they will move heaven and earth to get him because the need is so great now for someone to come in and kind of plug that gap. Yeah and he's already shown. He has got like some worries about playing understudy to Rodry though, that's what I've heard so far which is fair enough completely because when Rodry comes back he will be starting but it's whether a player comes back from an injury of that magnitude the same player. I guess this is your big problem as City isn't it at the moment is that you have so many world-class players and stuff, I mean like realistically I think you need another centre forward.
00:15:03
Speaker
if you're going to be really pushing on, I think you need at least a backup or somebody who's a different profile to Erling Harland. But it's that same problem. yeah Who's going to play second fiddle? Yeah, Marley, you mentioned before, have I heard any kind of kind of concrete rumors about January? One of the other rumors that I've heard is kind of the possibility of bringing Liam Dalat back for I think it was 30 million. We have like the kind of buyback clause option for and which wouldn't be the worst kind of business in hindsight, because we we sold him for I think it was 10 plus add ons.
00:15:33
Speaker
whether they've been achieved. So we're looking at maybe a kind of 15 million pound loss. I think that's worth it. Um, but I think you're absolutely spot on Josh. I think we need a backup for early in Holland or, you know, you look at a player like Julian Alvarez, you would let go for massive money in the summer. He was capable of playing with early in Holland. He could play out and operate on that right, right wing. So I think we do need a profile who can play anywhere along that front three, because like you said, who's going to want to play direct back up to early in Holland, who,
00:16:01
Speaker
I've been quite surprised since he's come to sit to City, rarely gets injured at all. And he had a pretty prolific injury record at Dortmund. He's missed barely any games for us. So, yeah. I've heard Chris Wood's available. No, he's not. No, he's not. No, he's very much unavailable. No one mentioned that him and Aina only have half year contracts. No one mentioned that. You know what? I'd be worried that Chris Wood would come in and take his spot straight away.
00:16:30
Speaker
Oh, Paul Marley's come on to this podcast and we're we're just cherry picking all all the best players now. That's the exact thing I was worried about this January. You know, Chris Wood, Gibbs White, Anderson, Murillo, Elanga, Hudson and Doy, Aina, Sells. I could mention our whole starting 11. I'm worried they're all going to get picked up by as so-called bigger clubs because rainny eggs obviously but Maybe not Yates, he's been a forest lad his whole life. I think he'll be a forest lad the rest of his life. but a City money is a lot of money. ands a lot There is a lot of money that could be offered by these teams and just the glamour of these teams being more successful recently, whether we're second or 17, they'll still be attracted to that move and there's nothing we can really do about it.
00:17:17
Speaker
yeah Josh, it's it's interesting, isn't it? to you know Man City has have been such a dominant force over the last few years. and i was I was talking to a few of ah few of my friends at Liverpool Sporters and we're still not completely convinced that City are out of the title race. No, not at all. Even though logically you think You know what? that they They've got to be outright.
Title Race and Fixture Impacts
00:17:40
Speaker
But I think such is the psychological damage that these lot have done on the many of us, right? it's just you just can never You can never say they're completely out of it. i always I'm still thinking that they're going to sign Zubermendi. They'll sign a couple of other world-class players.
00:17:58
Speaker
And then they're just going to go on this phenomenal run. And we're not saying that they're going to win it, but I think they're going to put the brightness on. Of course they will. And it's typical that the one season they're having a bit of a rut and we've been challenging for two years, we stumble and you lot pick it up. It's infuriating. and just Honestly, just briefly, going back to transfers, the one I'm really interested in watching is the battle between Liverpool and the city for Frimpong.
00:18:24
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I think Liverpool need him more by the sound of it and he's suiting more but I mean see he's a big pull But what worries me about this frimpong transfer is he's been talked about a lot is and I'm sure Liverpool will share the same concerns Have you been watching any of the leather cues in games recently? He's starting up top alongside Patrick Schick And it's like we're signing him to play right back in a back four and the guy's played his last 10 games at striker It worries me I think that Ilunzo's doing that on purpose just to kind of put a spanner in the works there. Yeah, no one buy him because I'll play him at Australia. Jeremy Frimpong to Nottingham Forest. Here we go.
00:19:01
Speaker
ah but look but no No city talk but will be complete without those dreaded charges. I want to ask you, Jack. does it have do you Do you think there's any there's any kind of scenario where this has played into this kind of bad run? I'm not saying that this it's the cause. yeah Once they do get on this bad run, does it is it something that that is just additional that creates that kind of uncertainty around the players, around the club?
00:19:35
Speaker
Well, it's funny you mention that because I was in work the other day and, you know, someone came up to me, a city farm with his tinfoil hat on and said that he's heard through the grapevine from an in the know that we've got to deal with the Premier League that we'll get off the charges scot-free as long as we throw the rest of the season. So, all that information, what what you will, I'm sure. Just to be on as a guest tomorrow, by the way. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure it was Matt Leticia that told me that. but and You know what, it'll have been hanging heavy over the club, but I honestly don't think it will trickle through to the players that much. I think if anything, it'll have an effect on players looking to move to City. you know They will want resolution on on that club and and what's going to happen with the future, but I honestly think that you know the first 11, the squad that we've got currently,
00:20:22
Speaker
will just be so drilled, so focused on what they're currently playing. And if it has, then it's disappointing because you know you can put a lot of that down to kind of the bad form that we've had recently. But and I do think it'll have been hanging over the club. But with with the charges, look, I think the damage is already done. Whether we got off and innocent on on the charges or or we got charged for some, the damage is done. We are guilty in the eyes of the public. And and that's what, you know, oh The court of public opinion, you know, that's already been swayed. So whether the charges happen or not, I think, you know, honestly, the damage is done to the to the rap reputation of the club. and But for the rest of it, we'll just have to wait and see. OK, if you're saying that the Premier League is out of reach.
00:21:08
Speaker
It doesn't mean that the season's over, right? Does the Champions League offer an opportunity to do something great? Because it's not is not beyond the realms of possibility that, you know, Man City, Guardiola says, right, look, the Premier League is done. Let's go for the Champions League.
00:21:29
Speaker
I mean, look, my dad come up to me the other day and said, we're still on for a cup double. So, I mean, we we play Salford next week. we We're still in the Champions League. We could, we could be coming over this season with, you know, an FA Cup in a Champions League. It's not outside the realms of possibility. What worries me of the Champions League is that we will probably qualify in the second date, which just means more games. And that for me is the worst possible scenario. I'd honestly rather.
00:21:55
Speaker
finishing in the bottom eight, have it over and done with, then go a little bit further, maybe reach the quarterfinals and get knocked out there. Because that to me just spells more and more injuries. Yeah, you mentioned Salford. Let's just have a look at your January fixtures. Yeah, we've got quite a favorable January. Yeah, it's not too bad. I mean, Brentford away is is really tough. And obviously at the end, we we do play PSG. and But other than that, it's nice to have a kind of run like this where you know, after the our recent form. I think you'll pick up points. You've got, um you're at home to West Ham on the 4th of January and West Ham are just looking terrible. Yeah. Then you've you're at home to Salford in the f FA Cup. A way to Brentford. That's a late kickoff. So it could be a bit tricky. Yeah. A way to Ipswich. I can't see anything but a city win. like And then you've got a couple of tasty games. Yeah. You're February's mean. Yeah. you've got
00:22:53
Speaker
You're away at Paris Centurion in the Champions League. That's on the 22nd of January. And then you're home to Chelsea on the 25th of January. And then the end of the month, you're home to Club Bruges in the Champions League. yeah but That kind of PSG Chelsea, those those are a couple of, although I still fancy to beat PSG that I don't do. Well, this is the thing. PSG are not the team that they have been in recent seasons. And I think that even that PSG mega team with, you know, a front three of Neymar, Messi and Bape,
00:23:26
Speaker
what was a beatable team. We we beat them on a few occasions in qualifying matches and in the in the group stages. So I don't think they're as big as a worry as their name portrays. and But like Josh mentioned, our February is haunting. It is absolutely horrendous. We go to Arsenal at first game in February, then we've got Newcastle and Liverpool in back-to-back games.
00:23:51
Speaker
and February away. Oh, you've got Spurs in February. yeah Spurs yeah at the end of February. and But fortunately, there there are only five games, four games, I think. So it's quite a respectable schedule, and given that, you know, the recent Christmas schedule anyway, so it's going to be tough, but it's few and far between at least.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, and that should be interesting. All right.
Liverpool's Tactical Evolution and Contract Concerns
00:24:16
Speaker
Let's so turn out attention to Premier League leaders, Liverpool, clear of second-placed, forest by eight points, nine ahead of Arsenal, 10 ahead of Chelsea at the time of recording. Josh, as someone who is secretly a Liverpool supporter, we all know that. How how do you assess what this Liverpool team is and how they've played in this first half of the season. I mean, quite, it's one word, juggernaut.
00:24:47
Speaker
They've been terrifyingly good. I mean, I was taught my boss at work as a city fan, and we were talking about Liverpool the other day. And you sort of look at the big teams who went through big managerial changes, sort of from iconic managers, maybe the Fergusons at United, Vengers at Arsenal, that sort of thing. It will be the same with Guardiola leaves City as well.
00:25:09
Speaker
But when Klopp left Liverpool, obviously it's that legacy and that that style of play, that footballing ethos that also left as well. And I, like a lot of people, thought, you know, Anish Slott is an inventive manager, he's he's he's a good manager, but by no means is he going to get a tune out of this team. The big difference is Klopp left Liverpool behind in such ah good way like he set the team up brilliantly and what I noticed about slot because my dad my dad's a Liverpool fan and he's he's loving this season
00:25:44
Speaker
is if you're not winning slot just throws five strikers on and says ah sod it go for it you know literally throwing the kitchen sink and yeah one of those strikers is darwin newness so it's balancing that is very true very very apt point but and also the the year that he's either trying to get the biggest payout from the Saudi Pro League or from Liverpool in any of his history, Mohammed Salah is just on an absolute tear.
00:26:17
Speaker
His stats, what is it? He's like breaking records every week. 30 already. 30 goal contributions already. It's December. We're not even midway through. The midway through game is this midweek game. And they've got a game in hand because Everton game was canceled. What is wrong with the man? That's what I want to know, Jesse. What have you done with to him? what What is he made of? I think he's you're just looking at I know that obviously Liverpool fans are going to wax lyrical about him, but I think ah objectively he's he's one of the best players that has ever played in the Premier League. For me, I think he's the best player in the world because of his consistency. Ever since he's arrived at Liverpool, irrespective of whether we're having a good season,
00:27:02
Speaker
a bad season, he's there putting up the numbers. And I think for someone to play as a wide forward, he's not an out and out number nine, he's a wide forward. And even though the game has changed, right, you know, we we don't have those kind of two front men up top, but still he's a wide forward. And for him to be always in those positions where he's scoring or he's, and he's really developed his game. I think he's assisting far more than he used to. He's kind of through balls are,
00:27:32
Speaker
ah much much better than they well you never used to have one before you know Sadio Mane will tell you you know so I think he's developed his his all-round game and I think he's in that kind of phase where you know you have these players who they're great players but then they achieve a kind of seniority in a team And they know how good they are. They know how important they are to their team. And so they always have that air of confidence when they ah step onto the pitch. But so Jack, in in terms of Arnie's slot, obviously he's he's done well in his first half season. What's impressed you about the way that he's managed Liverpool so far?
00:28:14
Speaker
I mean I talked about it I think in in the in the first title challenges pod but what has impressed me most is is just his communication. Now his communication to the media in his post-match press conferences when he gets dragged onto these TNT panels and the way he can talk about games and the way he can talk about such complex things in football and make them sound so simple that is such an underrated trait in a manager because if you can portray that to us you know fans watching at home then
00:28:48
Speaker
it's got to be so easy for him to to kind of drill this style of play into his plates. And I just think communication is the most underrated aspect that a manager can have in football. So I think that's massively impressed me. But I actually wanted to ask you, Jesse, and there's been a lot of discourse recently around how well Arnie Schlotz been doing and whether that impacts Jurgen Klopp's legacy. You know, I've seen both sides of the coin in the, you know, on the one hand,
00:29:16
Speaker
Jurgen Klopp is left behind this monumentally fantastic squad that Arnie Schlot was able to come in and pick up and and and crack on with But on the other hand, you know if Jurgen Klopp had this squad that was capable of doing this Why didn't he do it in his last couple of seasons? I just want to know where you kind of sit on on that coin because I think there's you know,
00:29:39
Speaker
Agreeable arguments to both sides of the coin, but as a Liverpool fan, where do you sit on that? Because the only addition was Kiesa, wasn't it? Exactly, yeah. who hasn't who's Who's barely kicked a ball. but like yeah yeah it's it's it's ah It's a good point, but i I tend to take a kind of longer term view in terms of the history of the club. if If you look back at the history of the club, club we had Bill Shankly, who was Someone that Klopp is often compared to, transformational ah transformational figure, very charismatic. Liverpool played great attacking football under him, but his successor, Bob Paisley,
00:30:19
Speaker
comes in. And I mean, he he wins three European Cups, he wins six or seven titles in nine years. And so he he actually wins more than Shankly. But over the course of time, Shankly, he's the one that's got the statue. He's still the the man that is revered and looked at as the man that built the modern Liverpool. And I think Klopp will be looked at in a similar vein. yeah Irrespective of how well Slop does, I don't think it impacts in any way, shape or form, negatively at least. So so so you can't view them you know both separately in that Clop had built the foundations that now Arnie Schlot is building on top of. I think even more so the foundations. Clop delivered.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um It's not like a a foundational thing where, all right, look, we've got to third or to fourth or second. You now go and get over the line. Yeah. You've got Liverpool to three Champions League finals in yeah five seasons. Yeah. And I mentioned before, one title, but, you know, 97 points finishing second, 93 points finishing second. That's what you've got to do in this Mansi era to even get close to them. Are you listening, Arsenal fans?
00:31:37
Speaker
And so I think that Klopp has done more than built a foundation, but I think what i think what happens in football is, you know, players, it it doesn't matter even if you've got a generational manager, you know, great manager, after a while players will want to hear a new voice, new ideas, not to say that that old manager is now rubbish. I think if you listen to some of the interviews with particularly the defenders like Trent, who has improved defensively this season, Andy Robertson, they are absolutely bowled over in terms of the tactical detail that Arnie's slot now goes through in terms of the shape, there their their tactics,
00:32:21
Speaker
their defensive shape. And so I think that is something that has rejuvenated what has already been a really, really good squad. And I think we're we're in that place almost ah almost like a perfect storm, but the polar opposite of where City are. Whereas all those problems have come at the same time at City, and they're suffering from that. And for Liverpool, we've got a new manager who is very tactically as astute. We've got a forward line.
00:32:50
Speaker
obviously Salah apart who is, you know, head and show shoulders above everyone else. However, the likes of Diaz, the likes of Gatpo, the likes of Jota, they all contribute and they they're they're interchangeable. So sometimes Diaz, Diaz at the weekend played centrally, he played centre forward and he scored. Gatpo is chipping in with goals now.
00:33:13
Speaker
And then you've got that midfield now, which I think is Slott's biggest success. Graven Burch. Graven Burch. What he's done to that player. Picking Graven Burch into that double, double pivot role was an absolute stroke of genius. And to have him now next to McAllister, who for me, even though he's a World Cup winner and everyone knows he's a really good player, I still think that a lot of people don't realise how good he is.
00:33:39
Speaker
And so to to have him next to Gravenberg, and then you've got just in front of them, Sir Boslai is coming into his his own now. I've never seen a midfielder work as hard as he does. Jones is is getting up there as well, Harvey Elliott is chipping in as well. So I think And then we've got that spine, that back five of Champions League, Premier League winners of Alison, Trent, Gomez and Dyke Robertson. And then you add Canate into there as well. So I think we've got a really good balance in the squad that has meant that we we are where we are. Obviously, it's not over yet, but we're in a very good position. I've been impressed with what he's done with them
00:34:18
Speaker
grabbing birch more so for the fact that, you know, there's people a lot of people say, Oh, all he's done is, is play him. We all knew there was a player in there somewhere, but that's massively disingenuous because if you look at what he was doing at Ajax, grabbing birch wasn't playing this role at all. There was nothing in his game that suggested that he could play as deep as he's playing right now and accept. So it's not just a case of right. He started playing him. He's completely molded this player into someone who's, uh, you know, completely capable of holding that kind of that midfield down and and playing alongside, you know, world-class players like um Alexis McAllister. So I think he's just done a remarkable job. 100%. Basically, you can have Zubamendi. but mean But that's the thing. I think even if he got Zubamendi in the summer, we'd be like talking about Zubamendi as, you know, one of the finest players in the world.
00:35:09
Speaker
because I just think that Arnie Schlot is the guy that will develop these type of players. and he He's a coach, isn't he? At the end of the day, Arnie Schlot is he's a coach through and through. i And like you were saying earlier, Jack, I think that's why he comes across as so calm and so collected. He's not really a manager in the molds of sort of like the Artetto and the Guardiola's, whereas that overarching control and intensity. He's just a brilliant football mind and coach yeah and he knows his stuff. yeah And what so what he can do with players, very quickly, Jesse,
00:35:39
Speaker
Fabinho or Granberg obviously they do slightly different things but my I mean go back to my old man he says that he actually prefers what Granberg is doing right now because of the way he turns and just enter space so seamlessly.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think for Benio, again, you know, he won the Premier League, the Champions League with us, so I don't want to be too harsh on him, but he was your bog standard, albeit very, very good defensive midfielder. He was a destroyer. He'd break up play and just pass it to, you know, to to to better players than him, which was basically 10 other players, including the goalkeeper.
00:36:22
Speaker
But I think, as you mentioned, Gravenberg, I think he's he's got so much to his his game. And Jack, you mentioned that no one saw this at Ajax. No Liverpool fan saw this. And he was with Klopp last season. yeah And he was coming in and out of the team. He'd come on and he'd get subbed after 60, 65 minutes in that kind of attacking midfield role. He looked very, very lightweight. And now he's a player transformed.
00:36:52
Speaker
recency bias aside, I think that Gravenberg is a better watch because he is just easier on the eye and and the way that he controls that game alongside McAllister is is a real it's a real treat to watch. But Marley, I want to bring you you in here because obviously, and I'm loving this part because we're waxing lyrical lyrical about Liverpool, but there's got to be some weak points about Liverpool. And one of the things that I'm just wondering if there's anything that's going to derail Liverpool, apart from the usual injuries, that kind of thing. But the contract situation with arguably Liverpool's three biggest players, Mohamed Salah, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Virgil van Dijk,
00:37:38
Speaker
At the time of recording, we're literally 48 hours away from them being able to sign for for any other club outside the Premier League. is If this is not resolved, is there a danger that this is what derails things for Liverpool? Well, it's it's difficult to call because you don't really know.
00:38:00
Speaker
what the chances are obviously you can I can see all three of them wanting to sign on because all three of them have been legends at the club recently one of them is a Liverpool lad they've done so well in the last few years to kind of make their names they've been three of the best players in the league in the world at times but there is also that draw away for each of them like you know Van Dyke might want a new challenge Trent has been heavily linked with Real Madrid and I don't think there is much chance of him turning that move down even as a Liverpool lad Real Madrid have just just got that massive pull and Salah will possibly be approached in Saudi and try and get that one last massive paycheck but
00:38:44
Speaker
With a club like Liverpool, with the players you've got, I don't think it will derail you because you can always replace them. like Not directly, not exactly, but there are players that you can bring in to do their jobs to an extent just as well as needs to be. And you might your might drop a bit, but I don't think it'll drop to the point where you won't win this league. I don't think there is going to be a title race this year. I think it'll be very, very just Liverpool run away with it. Let's hope so. Jack, what you what do you reckon about those three then?
00:39:12
Speaker
well first and foremost i completely agree with mary i think that and arsenal and city will come back into it i don't think actually think the arsenal have rare dropped off that much i also people didn't know which the kind of You know, there was a kind of group of games around October. The Odegaardless years, we call them. Exactly, yes. When I actually think that the quality that Arsenal have is still there, I think this soccer injury is going to be huge for them. I actually think that there is probably more to worry about there than maybe Arsenal fans are kind of considering seriously. It's it's ah it's a similar injury to to Kevin De Bruyne that's kind of put him out for the past couple of seasons. So and that is very unfortunate. I do think you will run away with it. But regarding
00:39:52
Speaker
and the the contract situation, what what worries me as an outsider, I mean it doesn't worry me because I'm a sitting man, but if I would say I had to put myself in your shoes, it's just the sheer amount of noise coming from Real Madrid's camp, specifically with you know this relationship that he has with you Bellingham, I'm talking about Trent Alexander Arnold obviously, it does just seem from the outside looking in that he does want out and he does want to kind of maybe follow that kind of Jude Bellingham, David Beckham style route in that he wants to be the superstar and credit to him, he is a superstar. But for me, if I'm putting myself in trench shoes, there's nowhere you should rather be then than at Liverpool because I think that, okay, you rearm Madrid after Champions League and and and they do go deep in the Champions League every season regardless of form. I just think, look at the the project that you're building now. Okay, you've seen this kind of twilight years with Jurgen Klopp kind of fiddle out, but
00:40:49
Speaker
It's rejuvenated completely and you're only going to kick on from here. There's only going to be more that's going to come from this Arnie Schlot era. But that does worry me. I do think that that Liverpool are in a real danger of losing Trent Alexander-Arnold to Real Madrid. The other two, I think I was listening to a some of the podcasts a couple of weeks ago and about what Liverpool are thinking right now is that they were they they give players contracts based on what they're going to do.
00:41:18
Speaker
not what they've done in the past, which can cause some problems because you get senior players like Mo Salah who are saying, look at all I've done for the club. I've scored goals and goals and goals. I've lived trophy and trophy, but Liverpool's board look at Mo Salah and say, we don't care what you've done in the past. We care what you're going to do to us. So we'll give you a contract half the pay with massive bonuses and say, you can earn as much as you have been earning as long as you're providing.
00:41:48
Speaker
But big players like Mo Salah, like Virgil van Dijk, you know, as they should, will say, well, no, I deserve a baseline because of what I've done for the club. So I do think that Liverpool will kind of come to their senses and and and secure those two players. I think there's maybe a small chance that Mo Salah goes to Saudi Arabia. I don't think you have to worry with Virgil van Dijk. I think he lives and breathes as a club. But Trent is a real worry for me. Real worry.
00:42:16
Speaker
um've I've got to say, that i groove the before I come to Josh, I've got to say I agree with you 100%. I think that Salah and Van Dyck will eventually sign. yeah ah I think that Trent will go. yeah What do you reckon Josh?
00:42:32
Speaker
I actually entirely agree with both of you, I have to say. He's very boring, isn't it? He's a little bit, but I mean, I was listening to, I don't know what podcast he was on, John Oliver, the comedian, massive animal fan. And he was sort of giving it all the big, you know, Trent, Jared didn't go, you know, look at McManum. Do people really respect him? Yes, they do. But, you know,
00:42:54
Speaker
February Madrid isn't all that nice. fib February Merseyside, stunning. There's so many things that realistically would be driving Trent that way. But kind of heartening back to what Jack says, at this point in time, Trent is such an icon at Liverpool. If he stays another five, six years, he'll have a statue outside Anfield. Oh, he'll have that modulation.
00:43:19
Speaker
Absolutely. By the way, he's mental when we're talking about a right back. But yeah he is literally, single-handedly, more so than Robertson, I think, completely redefined the kind of full back role. We've got kids actually wanting to grow up and be a Trenton Alexander Arnold nowadays. No one wanted to grow up and be a Gary Neville, as Jamie Carragher. Rightly so, we should feel like a superstar because he is. and It's always going to be mental to me that, you know,
00:43:48
Speaker
he is that way as a right back and as a position that's completely you know reignited in football over the past few years. There is one thing I'd say to it though, with if one of them does pre-agree a contract and it is announced in January,
00:44:05
Speaker
last year, Klopp announced in January that he was leaving. And it caused an awful lot of noise. And if anything, it was I think it was intended as a stabilizer and as a something to push for. But if anything, it made things very shaky for the Liverpool squad. And that would be my only concern. If one of these big players announces, I'm going to Madrid, I'm going to Saudi, I don't know where Virgil would actually go. ah he He seems to love the club. And he's the foundations that house he needs to stay there.
00:44:35
Speaker
But if one of them goes and makes a big announcement, how is it going to shake the rest of the changing room? I think that's a big question that has to be asked. And then also, how quickly do Liverpool act to get that replacement in? Yeah, yeah it's it's ah it's a good shout. I think it's it may be different in the sense that with Klopp being the leader, being the manager, being the kind of driving force of that team,
00:44:58
Speaker
And Liverpool are an emotional club as it is. And that's an emotional team and an emotional manager. And I just think the emotions just ran too high, too quickly. And they just kind of fizzled out in in April. It was just too much. I think if an individual player announces that he's off,
00:45:17
Speaker
We've probably got enough cover in other areas to cover for that, but so I think Van Dijk will be a huge drop-off. I think that's a real, real worry if if he was injured or or you know if he was out of the team for a while. I think the other areas, Conor Bradley have got absolutely no no worries at all right back. And if anything, as as crazy as this sounds, no one wants a Trent Alexander-Arnold to leave. There's no team that wants that player out of the team.
00:45:47
Speaker
But I think out of those three players, he's the one that Arnie Slott can live without because Conor Bradley is actually more of an Arnie Slott player than Trent is. yeah I think tactically, I don't think it'll be the end of the world. But so we'll we'll see what happens. Let's have a quick look at Liverpool's January fixture list. We've got a nice little fixture against sir Manchester United on and Sunday.
00:46:17
Speaker
Three points if I've ever said it. Oh my word. Then we've got ah we've got a League Cup fixture away at at Tottenham, ah home to Akronton Stanley in the FA Cup. And then we've got a tasty one in the Premier League, 14th of January, under the lights at the city ground against Forest. I think you've got to worry about that one. I really do. up oh yeah i listen oh we are what can i just point out I just point out, we are the only team To beat Liverpool on Planet Earth in 2024-25 we're going for the double.
00:46:53
Speaker
You know what, really, I will take a point. I will genuinely, I will take a point. And you know what, it actually, it actually that defeat looks set feels better now, strangely. you know Because if Forrest were languishing, let's say, third from bottom, we'd still be kicking ourselves thinking, oh, that's three points wasted. But now we know that Forrest are a really, really good team and and it doesn't feel as bad.
00:47:18
Speaker
and often like jesse our Our victory against Forrest now feels even worse. bad vaines yeah After that, 18th January we're away to Brentford.
00:47:32
Speaker
Oh, it not easy. No. And then we've got Leal in the Champions League. That's not easy, though, either. Home against Ipswich and then away at PSV in the Champions League. So there are a couple of games there. Brentford away is never easy. Yeah. I know Brentford will be playing in that one week, both you and us in at the end of each weekend. So maybe they're looking at it. Let's hope they rest all their players against us.
00:48:00
Speaker
insky ice It's isn' a bit of an argument. Brentford away was very easy. We find it very easy. We walk through them to win. Boom. Just like that. Only team to win that season. Yeah. That was strange actually, because I did him some predictions on our on our city podcast and I just ultimately weighed up that although forest were flying at that time. Brentford is so, so good at home. I think they still are the best team at home this season. So, I mean, you might have considered that game quite easy, Marley, but I mean, that came as a shock to me because
00:48:32
Speaker
Renfrew and I are fantastic at home. Literally recorded the crossover today and they've only dropped five points at home. I know I expected to struggle but we walked out to the winners and to me we did not really look like we struggled in that game. I think the toughest part was seeing out the first five minutes after five minutes. They couldn't break us down and every time we got the ball we looked like going forward and slapping one in there.
00:49:00
Speaker
It's that pedigree, isn't it? Forrest has been a two-time European champion. That's what be is it It's not all it's got to be. All right, we're going to a very quick break, but we'll be back after this very brief message. Here at Global Sports Podcast Network, we spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform. Zencaster came out the clear winner.
00:49:26
Speaker
with 4K video recording from your phone and AI editing that automatically removes all those ums and r's. It's super easy to start a podcast that sounds great and is delivered efficiently. If you're ready to tell your story, check out the link in the show description to learn more about Zencaster.
00:49:49
Speaker
Right, welcome back. Nottingham Forest are second in the league behind leaders is Liverpool. No, this is not a long-lost recording from the 1970s. It's here and now and Forest, I mean, they really are rolling back the years. Marley's beaming from ear to ear. So tell us what exactly is going on at the city ground this season?
00:50:11
Speaker
Uh, what's going on at city ground right now is I am watching the Ipswich Chelsea games score very carefully to make sure we are definitely still in second place.
Nottingham Forest's Transformation Under Nuno
00:50:20
Speaker
But now basically, I think what's happened is we've, we changed managers at the end of well, midway through last season to Nuno Espirito Santo. And we all knew what he'd done with Wolverhampton wonders a few years ago, even if Tottenham didn't work out too well, and he spent a year in Saudi Arabia, we knew he could do what he'd done at Wolves, we knew he still had it in him. And I think the general feeling was, although it might not click into gear this season, we might still struggle. As long as we stay up, give him a pre-season and see what we can do. He's had that pre-season, he's drilled his mentality into the squad, and we've brought in a very, very tall person called Nikola Milenkovic at centre-back, who he's not only solved our defence, because he's sure that Opie's that leader who can
00:51:09
Speaker
bosses around and he's a proven player, he's done well at Fiorentino, he's done well for Serbia. But he's also solved our attacking set-piece issue, whereas now we just say, screw it, the big serve's in there somewhere. Whereas last season it was all panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, hit it across to the other side of the penalty area and watch it go over everyone's head. So I think MilenkoVic has shored us up in so many ways, but also what's changed is we've managed to get a front four of Gibbs-White, Elanga, Hudson adoy and Wood who are playing to their strengths rather than Steve Cooper just throwing out them a tactic and expecting them to do it. He'd realised that our strength is we've got a very quick and very clinical attack and so we're we know we've got a strong defence, we can see teams out, we're playing that quick attack
00:52:02
Speaker
clinical attack to our advantage and using very dangerous and effective counter attacks to break teams down. And it is working better than we could ever have imagined. And I think Forrester, a club which we thrive off of fans as well, which is why we struggled so much during lockdown. So the second that we start doing well, the fans are on a high, they're enjoying it. We're in voice louder than ever. The players all feed off that massively and It just boosts the momentum and carries on Forrest doing well and being the only team to beat Liverpool this season. What was the feeling of Forrest fans when Nuno was appointed manager? ah Did they see that as a as a positive or were they kind of not sure about this? It was a massive, massive 50-50 at the time because we just sacked Steve Cooper. He was a fan favourite, club legend.
00:52:54
Speaker
always will be. He got us back to the Premier League after, what was it, 23 years of doldrums of League One and Championship football. So there was a lot of, should we have sacked him, should we have given him more time? Nuno came in and the first thoughts with half of us were, we look, it's time for a change. We know what he's done with Wolves. Could he do that with us? Give him time, give him a chance, see what he can do. you other The other half were like,
00:53:21
Speaker
just a bit sentimentality on Steve Cooper think we shouldn't have sacked him and Nuno is not the best man to bring in but I think the whole feeling at the end of the season especially now this season has become a bit more like well we've been proven wrong you've been proven right Nuno was the right man for the job and he's the right man to take us forward from here on out. is He's perfect for Forrest and I think Forrest is perfect for him in a way as well. Jack, you mentioned earlier that so yeah you like the fact that slot keeps it simple.
00:53:52
Speaker
it's It is quite refreshing, isn't it? To see someone come in who isn't an ideologue, you know, you're going to play like this, even if we don't have the players to carry that out. We've seen Southampton do that. We've seen certain teams just yeah commit footballing suicide. Yeah. You know, look at the players, you know, he looks at the players he's got and comes up with a game plan that works for them. I mean, Gibson White, Gibson White looks like a different player now. ah Chris Wood, I mean, it's a player reborn. Hmm. I mean,
00:54:22
Speaker
for better or for worse and in our case it's been for better at Manchester City we do live in an age now in football of systems you know it's all about the system that's being played the tactics how great they are and you know Arsenal you've now been sucked into that and it is amazing at times but sometimes there is a little bit of you you know I'm um victim of this as a city fan completely that wishes that you had a manager who just said, right, you've got 11 great players on the pitch. Go out and show us why you're fantastic. And I think that is just slightly discrediting Nuno Espero Santos a little bit, because he is a fantastic coach, a fantastic manager. He does have great tactics, but I also think... he's All he's done is put a big bloke in defense. If you want to simplify it like that, then last time, but I do think that he has realized that he's got a great group of players and just got the best out of him.
00:55:19
Speaker
And now I'm looking at this forest side and going, wow, they have some massively talented players. And there's players in there that I've always rated. I'm a massive, massive Gibbs White fan. Marley, you'll know we had a crossover podcast a couple of weeks ago where I was just singing his praises. But the you know even these other players that You know, we're really starting to get the best out of, you know, Alanga was a talented player at United. He wasn't this good. You know, but for the life of me, his name's escaping me. i the door lot Hudson You knew that before I even mentioned it. Yeah. He's doing fantastically as well. And and we're looking at this forest team now and and and saying that there are some really talented players there. and So it is refreshing to see a manager just get the best out of a group of players. It reminds me a little bit.
00:56:05
Speaker
of Alex Ferguson's coaching okay it was a little bit less about the tactics and and just go out there show me why you deserve this paycheck that type of style it is more old school kind of management isn't it yeah i feel like a ah in terms of you know if you look i mean it's it's actually a It's one in the eye, I think, for a lot of managers out there that they might complain about budgets and finance. And of course, that does make a difference. If you look look at the likes of Nuno, I think Marco Silva at Fulham is doing a brilliant job. um erola ah balmouth You know, it does go to show that if you've got a good manager who can work with the tools, you know, that that he's got, he doesn't really need to go out and buy a hundred million pound player to improve a team, Josh.
00:56:54
Speaker
No, not at all. I mean, there's so many talented individuals out there. And I think sometimes it's kind of like what Jack was saying. I think there are occasions when players are effectively coached to death a little bit, and that can become a little bit of a smothering influence on them.
00:57:13
Speaker
sort of in the grand scheme with things. I think when you have a freedom to go out and play, there are especially young players who feel like they have a point to prove, go and do it. We often see it in international games, you know, because there's not much time to implement the system, things like that. So the players who have that technical ability and that Passion will go out and show themselves. And again, kind of discrediting what Nuno was doing for Forest at the moment. But just giving them freedom is refreshing. And it kind of, the way that you play is scaring me slightly because it's slightly reminiscent of Leicester back in 2016. Sort of a very, very effective counterattacking.
00:57:51
Speaker
ah You've had enough, Liverpool.
00:57:56
Speaker
What was that Miley? Yeah there is one man that I would love to give credit to and obviously I would like to mention that one of the differences from last season is... Don't you dare, don't you dare. Obviously we've been going, we were trying to put everything through Morgan Gibbs White and obviously we weren't using the wingers enough and Chris Wood would expect to do all the jobs up up front. We've tied that up now, we're letting them all do only what they need to do, what they're best at doing but There is one man that doesn't get enough credit. And I don't think this role at a football club gets enough credit at most clubs, but I think ours needs a lot of credit. And that is Evangelos Maranakis, the owner. He bought the club after we basically boycotted going to matches and instead stood in the car park with foul without signs, sold the club to a big Greek shipping magnet, one of the most powerful and richest men in Europe, apparently.
00:58:47
Speaker
who has just transformed the football club really. Obviously, there was a big feeling around it when he bought us a finally foul as he's gone, the corruptions out the club, we can see where we can go from here. He's eventually, he's brought in a few managers, found Sabri Lamucci who transformed the feeling around the club, sacked him maybe prematurely, brought in Chris Houghton who, okay, he was a failure, sacked him a bit late.
00:59:13
Speaker
But then he's brought in Steve Cooper, who was the perfect choice for that job, who's taken us up. And then he's thrown everything he can at Cooper, anything Cooper's needed to try and keep us up. Maranakis has thrown at him. Sacked him when we needed a change. Brought in Nuno, he's done the same. Anything Nuno has needed to try and do his job at Forest. Maranakis has thrown at him. And at the same time,
00:59:35
Speaker
He's also thrown a lot at the club to help the club become a more sporting city. He's invested in our women's team, turned the professional. He's set up a netball team for the club, so we've now got Nottingham Forest netball. And there's large talks about him investing in cricket, in in the ice hockey. So, Maranakis is now, he's extending from just doing wonders for our club, and he's extending into the the whole city as well. so I need to give massive, massive credit to Evangilos Maranakis, the owner, for everything he's done for us. And pinch the new good spot.
01:00:09
Speaker
Still bitter about that one. I'm not going to let that one go anytime soon, I'm afraid. Eddu belongs at the Emirates. if
01:00:18
Speaker
Marley, Forrest, five straight wins in the Premier League. Absolutely. Just phenomenal. And if you if you look at your fixtures now for for January,
01:00:31
Speaker
You've got a way to Wolves. You've got um an FA Cup game yeah against Luton at home. Obviously Liverpool at the City Ground on 14th January. ah way know Home to Southampton, surely three points. And then the 25th of January, a way to Bournemouth. I think that'll be a cracking game. That'll be a good game.
01:00:55
Speaker
almost right That's going to be i think a really good game. But so i i see I see you getting all three points at Wolves. I hate to say, it but I think think that the the Liverpool game could be a draw. I see you beating Southampton and the Bournemouth game can just go either way. So it could be there or thereabouts, you know?
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, I've learned in the last few years, never expect to win from Forrest because when you most expect to win, and you'll lose 10-0. But and with Jordan Rhodes' first half hat-trick against Sheffield Wednesday ah years ago, still fresh in my mind, and the Matt Smith first half hat-trick against Millward in our last game before lockdown, I fully expect to get knocked out of via ah the cup by some random Luton player who no one's ever heard of in 10 years popping up and scoring a hat-trick in the first half.
01:01:49
Speaker
Liverpool, I think you'll beat us because I think you'll come to the city ground with vengeance on mind and you'll run riot. You will turn into another game that somehow you didn't know you had this season and batter us. Wolves and Southampton, I think it's safe to assume will be three pointers. And Bournemouth, we just never a beat Bournemouth, so I don't see anything other than a draw. Very few teams do at the moment. You didn't. Yeah, we know right.
01:02:17
Speaker
Right. Okay. Right. So let's bringing up the rear in this title race special, as their great club name suggests, Arsenal. Josh, number of the sitting third, nine points off top spot. Give me your assessment of Arsenal season so far, this first half of the season.
Arsenal's Season Challenges and January Fixtures
01:02:40
Speaker
It has been a weird one.
01:02:43
Speaker
I'm not going to lie to you. It's been a very, oh, Marley and Sane just happened in the game. Date, Forrest the second, Arthur the third, Liam Delappa scored, Chelsea nil, Ipswich Town one. Beauty. Okay. Well, that's just perked me up a little bit, but yeah. um is You know, you know this this episode is going out on on Wednesday, so you know that kind of slow sports news.
01:03:08
Speaker
i But yeah, it's been such a strange, such a strange season. We've had, obviously we can't argue that we've had the same sort of, sort of injury problems as some teams. Cities' injury problems, I mean, Jack has spelled it out for us earlier, have been monumental, like half the defence has been ripped apart for City. We've had, despite the fact we seem to sign five left-backs in the summer, all of them have been injured throughout the entirety of the season. So we're now relying on an 18-year-old centre midfielder there who's done really, really well.
01:03:39
Speaker
losing Odegard for three months was rough. yeah It was really, really rough. I'm not about to mention now the troubles that you're going to face losing Saka as well. I didn't want to think about that one. Saka is huge and like Jack said as well, the injury is not a good one. Like those sort of hammy and strings can they can really come back and sort of repeat and he's only 23 as well so to pick one up that early in his career yeah it really had surgery today yeah yeah so i'm i mean i'm hopeful he'll come back stronger but it's not going to be for a while yet in terms of our creative output this is where arsenal fans have been worrying about because there seems to be
01:04:24
Speaker
And possibly slightly unjustified for Arsenal in terms of the games that we've played compared to other teams. But when I look at City, City look, more than anything, exhausted. They look absolutely shattered. Arsenal are starting to look that way a bit as well. They're starting to look a little bit lethargic.
01:04:42
Speaker
especially in terms of their forward play and their forward thinking. Erdogan can't do everything. And the likes of Leo Trossard, Martinelli, they try, but they haven't got that cutting edge. Kai Havertz isn't the most natural finisher in the world. He's good at creating space, but he slices very simple chances as well. Jay Zeus has just come back, you know, into great form. Can he keep it up? Will he stay fit? We don't know. So there's a little bit of concern with depth.
01:05:10
Speaker
going forward for Arsenal. The thing is, I'm talking really negatively, we're still third. like It's still going well. I think there's just a natural disappointment. The city have dropped off. And after the last two years, we have not pushed on.
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would push back on that a little bit by by just reminding you that I'm completely dead against this this arsenal narrative that that they've that they've been close to winning the league. I just i just don't play sounds too you sound bitter i just couldn't play it i just think i think they't know what close is.
01:05:50
Speaker
yeah you know what i've seen I'll give you 97 reasons. no ah But let's leave that to to one side. What is different about Arsenal this season compared to last season? Because honestly, they look like a different animal yeah to me. They were so fluid last season, the season before that. I know you've said that they they look a bit lethargic.
01:06:16
Speaker
I can understand City's lethargy, yeah because one, and and again, Liverpool had this a couple of seasons ago, when you have a series of injuries, and then the people that come in to replace those injured players, they play game after game after game after game, they don't get a rest. And so, and then when the when the first team choice players come back, they're not match fit. And there's this kind of imbalance.
01:06:45
Speaker
And city City have too many older players in key positions. Like Jack mentioned, Gundogan, he's absolutely right. There's no way, this poor guy, when you thought, I'm coming back to City, one game a week, you know, maybe, the you know, a Champions League game, and he's just getting rinsed every single game every three days. And he's thinking, why did I leave Barcelona for this? But whereas Arsenal, I just, I'm wondering why they have this kind of lethargy that's that's making them, and maybe this is unfair, this kind of over-reliance on set pieces. It's not, it's not fair, and I think actually what you just said about city relying on the older players or having the older players, I think exactly the opposite is our problem.
01:07:33
Speaker
we have such a young team. like The average age is still about 24. Our senior players are basically Giorginio, Parte, and then the next one's sort of like late mid to late 20s. So we have such a young squad and we we came within two points, all right? Two points.
01:07:56
Speaker
I know it wasn't, you know, 98 or it wasn't a Champions League or anything like that. But it was big for us, dude. We came within two points and it would have been also would have been the 20th anniversary of the Invincibles as well. In fact, we're going to we're going to do an awards recording later today and the go the save of the season.
01:08:18
Speaker
the save that changed everything was Ortega's save against Sun in that game, which effectively sealed sealed the Premier League for City. It was a huge moment. so What day that was, by the way, just starting to get a touch. Oh, thanks, man. I was watching that in my pub, just and as he saved that, I was like, right, okay, like yeah year over, go cry upstairs, and they come back and serve.
01:08:42
Speaker
So I don't know if it's wiped out the energy or possibly the drive of the young players because We need, basically, we need older statesmen in there, I think. We need a couple more senior players who understand it. Like when we brought in Jay Zusens and Cenko before, everyone was raving about, are there title winners? They know what to do. they they They know how to win a title. They don't know how to run a young dressing room. I think we need some, possibly some sort of like 28, 29 in their peak or just past it, really coming and imposing themselves on that squad. Do you think that's something they'll do in the January transfer window?
01:09:20
Speaker
I think they're going to go young again, honestly. It's it's just Arteta's way. So I mean, I saw today Kingsley Coman seems to be an option. Vlachovic, Jokores, who's the sesco, like basically any young forward player is who we're being linked to.
01:09:38
Speaker
But I'd like to see, like, a Kimmich or somebody come in. I think he would be a perfect signing for us with Joshua Kimmich. The versatility, the know-how, something like that. But obviously he's linked to City, so he won't be coming to us. What what do you think about your striker situation at the minute, then? Because obviously, by the way, it is 1-1, Jarl Felix has scored. But obviously... Oh, damn. Most people doubt. In the review, yeah.
01:10:02
Speaker
It's been actually ruled out. or brought out't there you go oh my goodness Anyway, I'd expect that you would have been thinking about a striker in January or the summer, but then suddenly out of nowhere, Jesus has found form. So do you still think a striker is a priority in the window or do you think you're sorted with Jesus getting four?
01:10:25
Speaker
100% we need one. 100% because Jay Zeus is great. He's not really in natural number nine though. He's kind of the same issues with Jay Zeus that we were having towards the last stages of yeah city career and everyone was looking at him at city and going there's a fantastically talented player here and we're all going just wait until you have him playing for your club. and he will frustrate the life out of you. I still remember him scoring four goals in a game against Watford and then probably didn't, he's just so frustrating. He lives offside, he's so good when he's trying to beat a man out wide on the wing, but you put him up top and he's
01:11:05
Speaker
he he struggles. Was that was that pep in that taxi driving him to the Emirates? Yeah. He's almost purposefully inconsistent. Like it's not reliable. No. And to answer your question, mar I love habits. Like I really like what Arteta has done with Haberz but he's not enough to what we want to do which is the next step and it's what we should naturally be hoping to do so we do need another number nine and one that we can rely on to get the 20 goals so the players like Saka can have a rest he's played almost every game for Arsenal and England for two years and he's 23. I'm not surprised he's out injured for a long time like we need to take the burden off of the big players and spread it out with a bit of
01:11:52
Speaker
A bit of experience, a little bit of more. Directed finishing I'd say it's important for us. Yeah, I think one of the struggles that you've had this season is Like you just mentioned there's not enough spread of goals. It's almost like if Saka doesn't score this year You're not gonna score the last couple of seasons where you've been so good. I checked the Arsenal score Martinelli scored one Erdogan has scored another and white had scored a third and he's a loss that you haven't even mentioned much this yeah been Huge especially down that right-hand side because he is so good with Saka
01:12:26
Speaker
I just think that you're having the same issues that we are in that if Erwin Haarland doesn't score, we do not score. Our second top goal scorer is Josko Gavadio. That's mad, Gavadio. If you're not spreading the goals out across the team, it's it's a recipe for disaster. I think on Marley's point actually that I do think you need a striker. I do think this was a problem that was predicted by a lot of like kind of outside fans. Yeah. You will enjoy Havers. He's, you know, a fantastically talented player. I've listened to a lot of your pods this season, Josh, where you've been, you know, over the moon with him at times and then really frustrated with him at other times. I think that you probably should have gone in for a Doosan Blavitch a couple of seasons ago. Yeah. A hundred percent. We were probably looking at a player like him and thinking, okay, he's good, but
01:13:14
Speaker
there'll be another one pop up next year, but there hasn't really. So it is a bit of a depleted market at the moment. There's so few and far between. Has there been an update, Marley? Not an update. I've just realised though, that I think a goal scoring issue that Arsenal has can be highlighted in that their top score race with now Saka being injured, as long as Havers and Modern Elite form kind of dips,
01:13:38
Speaker
Their top scorer will be Gabriel. That kind of highlights a lot. But that doesn't matter because we've got Nicholas Jover and he'll just keep getting a set piece goals and that's all that matters. We'll win the league on corners. As a Arsenal fan, but what's your opinion on Martinelli? is Is he someone that's... Because for me, he just and he's a really talented player, but I just think he's so frustrating because just that end product,
01:14:06
Speaker
he is probably so quick he's probably my favorite arsenal player but he's infuriating because like jack said like you said the quality is there realistically you look at him three years ago you're looking at a player who's like you know young brazilian this guy could be the next big winger in the world he has everything in his toolkit to do that He had a rough injury last year, a really, really rough injury. He was out for about six, seven months. and he just But the problem is, and I think you find that a lot, especially with young players these days, he's a confidence player. And he has not got confidence at the moment. He scores the old goal here and there, and we think, right, that's it. He can start pushing on now. A little bit with what I'm thinking, her Harland you know against Leicester the other day, he's got a goal. This could be scary now.
01:14:57
Speaker
but Martinelli, he just doesn't push on when he gets that goal. And I don't know if it's like in his head, but at the moment you're looking at him and I love him to bits. I wanted him to be the mainstay of Arsenal for years, but you're looking at him now and thinking, if you don't buck your ideas up this summer, there is a very good chance you could be replaced or usurped by somebody coming in. I mean, let's talk about, you know, Nabri, Sane, Komen, all sorts of really talented wide players who could come in and just nick that spot off of him.
01:15:27
Speaker
In terms of Arteta, Josh? Yes. Don't do this to me. um Where do you stand? i've i've heard this I've heard this quite a few times from Arsenal fans. So where do you stand on this narrative that's coming out some quarters amongst the Gunners fan base? Well, that and obviously it's very early days, yeah very early days, anything can happen. But Slott potentially winning something big in his first season. Does that put pressure on Arteta in terms of what he's achieved so far?
01:16:02
Speaker
So, us at the Daily Arsenal Podcast do not in any way associate ourselves with AFTV, under any so under any scenario whatsoever. Who said anything about AFTV?
01:16:15
Speaker
But, ultimately, Arteta came in under very, very different circumstances to slot. He came in under a club that Wenger had done his absolute best with, but his tactics were outdated and his players were not good. like I mean, he had the likes of Marouane Chamac up front for him in his last few you know seasons and Scott Rand Mustafie, Andre Santos. it was It was a brutal squad.
01:16:41
Speaker
Emery comes in, wasn't given enough time probably, but also I don't think was ready for the Premier League necessarily. I think going away and coming back with Villa was the perfect move for him. So he came in in really difficult circumstances. What he's done to the club, it's Whether I put it in the same sort of levels of clop, probably not because he's not had that level of success, but he has turned it around. He's turned the atmosphere around. He's turned, fans had completely switched off at the Emirates. You know, it was known for being one of the quietest, most boring empty stadiums in the country. Now it's, ah it's a firecracker at the Emirates and that has a huge part down to him. He's still getting us consistently back into that top four and for the last two years in a title race.
01:17:28
Speaker
I don't think you can put the two together, but I understand why people are. And I think he's again, he's one of those managers who even though it's only been five years and he's only won an FA Cup, he's earned time and he's earned that ability to give it another go and rebuild again. But I'm well aware that if it goes another year or two without anything being one, there'll be a lot of very serious questions asked about him.
01:17:52
Speaker
Right. So he's out by the summer. Yeah. Right. So let's, let's, let's have a look at the, uh, January fixture list for Arsenal. Okay. A way to Brentford. Yep. That should be an interesting one. That's a five. Can we all up Brentford away this morning? We've all got Brentford away this month. Yeah. Um, a way to, a way to Brighton. Yeah. Not looking forward to that one. That is a tricky one. League Cup, home to Newcastle, then FA Cup, home to Manchester United. Who did you draw in the FA Cup Liverpool? Hicken Stanley. Yeah, and Jack, City Drew, Alford and Miley, you guys got... Hooten Town.
01:18:35
Speaker
manchester night come on yeah um you you saw like and i've got the easiest title got the easier bit made great upon now you just get the luckiest drawers time and time i again No. do you know exactly into that one josh You know exactly what's going to happen. Amrinn's going to beat us and he's going to win the FA Cup in his first season as well and just pile the pressure back on. Arteta out. And then January the 15th, Arsenal Tottenham. ye North s London, Derby. That should be fine. I'm not too worried about that one.
01:19:10
Speaker
18th of January, home to Villa. And then you've got Champions League against Dinamo Zagreb. And then End, you're a way to Wolves. And then the final Champions League game against Girona. Yeah, it's a busy January. It's a really, really busy January, which is um home games in Iraq.
01:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, but we also had four hideous away games in the road. One is an FA Cup and a League Cup. Yeah. How fortunate. If I remember rightly, we were away to, who was it? So it was Spurs, then Atalanta, then City, then somebody else. Horrible. I can't exactly remember, but we had that earlier on this season. So we're doing a little bit of a nice break against United now, isn't it? yeah Very Bring out the kids. Bring out the kids.
Podcast Wrap-Up and Next Episode Announcement
01:20:00
Speaker
Now we were supposed to have Jake from the Daily Chelsea team join us, but I hear that he's busy looking at the 85 potential signings at Chelsea. January transfer window. So hopefully we'll have Jake join us next time to talk about this season's title race. That's all for today. My thanks to Marlee, Jack and Josh. You've been listening to the Daily Liverpool Podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. Give us a follow so that you get the very latest content when it drops.
01:20:31
Speaker
Follow us on social media at GSP and Liverpool. You can email us at GSP and daily Liverpool at gmail dot.com. Join us again tomorrow for our crossover episode as we take on Premier League minnows Manchester United. at Until then, thank you for listening. Every club. Every day. The Global Sports Podcast Network.