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S5.E6 - What are Book Acquisitions and How Do I Get One?
123 Plays17 days ago
We are talking about acquisitions, how they happens, who is involved and which bits authors are let in on and which bits they are not.
- Naomi Gibson, author of Every Line of You, Game Over Girl, Man Muse Monster
- Melissa Welliver, author of The Undying Tower, My Love Life and the Apocalypse, Soulmates and Other Ways to Die, To the Death
- Jamie Greenwood, creator & host of The Write and Wrong Podcast
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Transcript
Listener Engagement and Opening Remarks
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, we would love to hear from you. If you have any stories or anecdotes about publishing, good or bad, we would love to hear about them and we'll talk about them. Or if you just have any questions or if you think it's anything we missed in in this episode or any of the previous episodes, reach out to us. You can find all of us on social media, on Instagram, or wherever it might be, or you can head it to the Right and Wrong podcast website. Yeah, all our DMs are open. Send us messages, let us know, you know, what what you've been up to in publishing. We'd love to talk about it and and hear about it.
Character Critique: Shrek vs. Christian Grey
00:00:29
Speaker
Shrek and Christian Grey are different characters. You heard it here first. After every episode was like, oh my gosh, I'm so angry at these toxic characters. Like, shove more food in my mouth, press
Humor in Reading and Book Reviews
00:00:41
Speaker
next episode. because I loved it, but obviously I hate it. This is so much fun. This is this my Malfoy-Himailu fanboy.
00:00:50
Speaker
She shouldn't have done that. I'm trying to make Neville happen. It's too wholesome.
00:01:00
Speaker
I've
00:01:04
Speaker
i've got, I've got a fun cold open here. So let's start with. Hello everyone. This is my official resignation from reading books. I have read far too many horrible books, but this was my last straw and now I will never read again.
00:01:20
Speaker
Goodbye. That is a one star review for what book? It could be anything. It could be a popular book. It is a popular book.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah. course it is. Is it YA? Yeah. It's YA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Is it a recent YA? I mean, how unre is it within, yeah. Is it within the last 10 years or 20 years?
00:01:47
Speaker
No. 20 years or 30. Has it ever been published? thinking, what year is it? yes Is it like Twilight? It's Twilight. ah Okay. Is it always Twilight? That feels like, you know, like in a pub quiz where it's like, oh, it's always a type of fish. Just say it's a type of fish. It's with these games. One star review. Is it Twilight?
00:02:08
Speaker
Yes, it yeah is. There's a good chance. I feel like Twilight has more one-star reviews than any other book that I've found so far. If anyone listening can think of another book that has more one-star reviews, let me know.
Understanding the Acquisitions Process
00:02:20
Speaker
um Okay, on today's episode, we are talking about, ah well, I've just titled this acquisitions, editors, agents, pretty broad, but generally focusing on acquisitions and the experience of acquisitions and the role of editors and agents within that.
00:02:38
Speaker
but all from a author's perspective, um which was not a shorter summary of that title. But... Hopefully it made sense. So you two have done this a couple of times now each, which is great. Now we have reference for like first time, second time differences. So talking about the acquisition acquisition process. so So let's just say this is this is after an author has acquired an agent, you've gone on submission. And I guess a good place to start would be, let's say like like you've you've got an offer.
00:03:11
Speaker
What, what happens when, like, how do you find out as an author that you have received an off an offer from, from a, from an editor or that an editor is interested? and then like, what happens from there?
00:03:23
Speaker
I think me and Naomi, I think our agents work slightly differently on this. I always get an email, like my agent leads by email. And then she will say on the email, I remember for my chicken house offer, She just wrote in big because it wasn't technically my first offer. i'd signed with a small press before, but it was one of those deals where I got no advance. And it was almost like a digital first offer. So this was ah sort of my first traditional, if you like, offer, which I was quite excited and I'd always wanted. And she just wrote as an email headline, offer from Chicken House in capital letters with like eight exclamation marks.
00:03:59
Speaker
and And then she just put in, she always puts in a few lines. So if people are interested, she always puts in like, um and my gosh, they've offered. They're so excited. They'd love to add you to their list. And then she'll say something like they're offering X amount of money. And she will actually put into the offer with X amount percentage royalties And it will come out as paperback.
00:04:19
Speaker
If you would like to talk in detail about all of the details of the deal. and I'm around now, she might say, or i can call you at two, something like that.
Communication Styles in Author-Agent Relationships
00:04:27
Speaker
So that's how I got mine.
00:04:29
Speaker
So it was definitely inbox checking inbox refreshing because I knew she was email led anyway. Okay. And she just puts the like. numbers and and like rates and stuff in in the email yes she doesn't tease me by going you've got an offer i can ring you at two so way too long like it wasn't like that she does tell me the very broad basics like financially of the offer but I think it's different for you don't you talk on the phone quite a lot with your agent I feel like you do Yeah, so when I had my ah offer from Chicken House, so Jo actually rang me and said, we've got interest first. So she always tells me if there's interest. right
00:05:07
Speaker
And then, it was actually different when I got acquired for YA than when I got acquired for adults. for YA, rang said, do we have interest?
00:05:19
Speaker
ah interest from chicken house and we were like dancing around going woo and and then actually we didn't have to wait long for the offer they took it straight to our acquisitions and then I got an offer and Jo rang me and she said we've had this offer but I think we can get more do you agree and I was like yes go and get more and so she rang and and she negotiated and got the deal we wanted and then she rang me back and said we got the deal and we had another dance around ah that was YA then for adult um I got an email from Kessia because obviously she was in a different time zone um so she didn't call me um actually no that's a lie I think she whatsapped me because that was quite a good method of communication for us so she whatsapped me and she said we've had interest from ah Renegade and
00:06:09
Speaker
and at that point we set up a call with the editor and that's the only time i've ever had a call with the editor before an offer comes through and actually it was really interesting because and they're going to sort of that editor's going to sort of tell you their all their ideas and stuff that they've got for potential edits and so it is actually um a good idea to have a call because then you can work out if what they want to do to the book is in line with what you want to do to the book andm And then after that call, we we waited a very tense week for an offer to come through.
Navigating Offers and Interest Expressions
00:06:43
Speaker
So both times were a bit different and also a bit different from you. It's funny, isn't it?
00:06:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it does feel like completely... Yeah, completely different. I always get i always get an email and I never... I never get an expert. Well, i never used to know if there was any interest. And I don't know if that's because of how I'd communicated that to Lucy, because this was earlier on in our like agent, like agent-y relationship.
00:07:08
Speaker
But I'm now wondering if that was just the way I communicated it. Because more recently, when we've gone on submission, like when we went on submission last year for To The Death, she kept me updated. ah And so she would tell me if those expressions of interest, I remember Hachette within 24 hours had expressed interest in the book. I didn't get um an offer for a couple of months, but they did express interest. So I remember her telling me that and giving me um sort of the feedback as it came in, etc., which was a bit different to how we'd done it before.
00:07:37
Speaker
But... it's Yeah, it's a strange one, isn't it? So I think that was a little bit different that she did tell me the expressions of interest. And then with UCLan, who are now Fox and Ink books, that was a bit different again, because I kind of cheekily approached them um and said, I've got this book that I've reclaimed the rights to from this small publisher and I'm self-publishing it and it looks really good, right? Don't you want to buy it? And we were an and she was like, well, I mean, you could submit it through your agent. So I did. And then I just basically asked my agent every now and then, like once a month, so i think it's about three months before they bought it. I would ask her. So has it gone through? And have you heard anything from Hazel?
00:08:18
Speaker
It's the editor there. And she would say, oh, yeah, they're reading it right now. And she would give me updates. But I would kind of ask for them because it felt almost like jewel led because I'd approached her because she was local to me and i was doing an event with her. So it was a bit different again. But, yeah, I feel like we've evolved from i would get no idea of interest. And more recently, we were doing more of those updates. And I can't tell whether that's because I signed with Lucy quite early, whether that's her evolving how she works as an agent or whether it was me maybe communicating.
00:08:46
Speaker
Oh, I don't want any like information unless it's an offer. I'm not quite sure now looking back. so could Or it could be a mixture both, to be honest. So yeah, it's definitely changed. i know But I still don't get a phone call, no. It's always email first.
00:08:59
Speaker
Then it's like, you want have a phone call? What if you don't see it for like eight hours or something? Like, what if you're at work? I'd be like on the train home going, no way! Yeah. well um i am friendly with my agent siblings and one of them did get a really juicy offer and i think it was a friday i could be wrong i think it was a friday which is i shouldn't check to emails and i think it was from america so it was like time difference and apparently it was an email but she got a whatsapp from lucy saying check your email because obviously she'd sent it and within 10 minutes it was quite a juicy deal so she was like oh shit sorry
00:09:36
Speaker
So I think she does do that. Yeah. So if it's like a big, especially if it's like a big, exciting thing. However, I'm ah surgically attached to my phone and my emails, which is very bad for my mental health and I should not do. So I would like never miss one. I can already tell.
00:09:50
Speaker
Like, I think I've always replied to emails within minutes because I'm just surgically attached to my phone and my... emails so it hasn't happened to me yet I'm sure it will do at some point that'd be quite nice I think I would quite like to have missed an important email by a couple of hours because it wouldn't make me so sad but unfortunately i just don't see it happening um but yeah always email led When you get those first contacts, like in your case, Melissa, Lucy literally puts the like, what the, ah what the figure is and like what the revenue percentage will be.
00:10:18
Speaker
That's pre, I'm already thinking that's pre-negotiation. Like that's good, probably going to change after Lucy's negotiated with the publisher. No, not for me. Actually, Lucy negotiates the best deal and then, ah and then gives me the best deal that she's negotiated.
00:10:32
Speaker
Oh, great. So, yeah. So when I've been more in the loop later, and you know, she said, OK, they've offered this. So like there's been things last year and the year before. It's been like, OK, they've offered this.
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm going to go back and see if that's the absolute best deal. and She hasn't asked me, are you OK with that? She's not in a rude way, but she's like, I'm just goingnna go back and check. That's the best deal we can get. And I've just always trusted and been like, yep, fine. ah But especially the earlier ones with that. No, no, she approached me. This is the, and she'll say, this is the final offer. This is the final deal.
00:11:04
Speaker
Oh, okay. So she's already negotiated. Yeah. I was going to say, she's, this is, this may have been going on for a few days before you even hear about it. That's interesting. Yes. And that's definitely happened before. Cause with my first one where of course I was, which I'm sure loads of debut authors can relate to.
00:11:20
Speaker
I was incredibly needy and incredibly clingy. And I was like, especially when i was asking every month, like, what's going on? And then I remember she said, i think it was like in February-ish, she said, oh, okay, I will say there has been, you know, they' they're interested at Chicken House, you know. And then, of course, I was like on honor, like asking, like, I think weekly probably, like, is there any... so any movement? Is there any movement? There's nothing, nothing yet. And then about a couple of weeks before got my offer in April, I do remember a saying, i I may have something to share with you soon, but don't get too excited yet. And I will talk to you about it when it's settled and just hold tight and trust me.
00:11:58
Speaker
like in a nice way, but they were obviously, I realize now they were probably saying they were going to exactly like acquisitions or they were negotiating. Again, I'm having, I'm speculating this because obviously technically I haven't been told this, but it seems obvious now looking back on it with a bit more experience, that's probably what was happening. And I was probably quite clingy because my last time I went on submission, there was lots going on in my personal life. um Like a family member was having a serious operation. i was having to go in and visit in hospital every day. They're fine now.
00:12:27
Speaker
But it did mean that I told Lucy I'm going to have no signal because there's no signal in the hospital at all. Some places in the hospital because it was i you to turn off your phone. So I'd already told her when I was going out on submission. i remember she said like, yeah, and it'll be great. She was so excited about the book. And she was like, I can give you loads of updates. And for once it was the other way around me going.
00:12:44
Speaker
I've actually got like a lot on at the minute. So, yeah, sure. Update me. I won't see it It's fine. And I was not really thinking about submission and it really flipped how it was the first time. It's all I could think about. i was just checking my emails every 10 seconds. and Whereas later, because I had something else going on and also I'd been on submission a few times and had disappointments on submission.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think I was a bit more relaxed about it and I was just happy to wait for her to email me. So it was okay. i mean, it's still stressful. Don't get me wrong. And I was definitely still sometimes checking my emails and stuff, but I had other stuff to focus on.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's the same with when you said, I think Lucy said to you that you'd had interest from the publisher, but then you didn't actually get the offer through for a couple of months later. I've spoken to yeah enough editors on right and wrong podcast to know that them being like, I have interested, like two months is not an unusual time that it would take an editor on top of everything else they're doing to basically put together a presentation and organize to meet with all the different departments within the publisher to pitch it to them and then get the go ahead to be like, yes, you can give an offer.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It takes like, you hear about 24 hour offers. i don I still really, to this day, despite asking editors in like my position at RiteMentor, like interviewing them, I still don't fully understand exactly how that's possible when I know how much my editor had to go through and she was really keen and it's a three book deal and she's really excited about the book and still, She really had to spend a lot of time, putting as i say, putting together presentation, getting second reads from lots of people. So lots of people, I met someone at ya last year who's on the marketing team and she had read it as
The Complex Journey of Book Acquisitions
00:14:21
Speaker
a second reads when it had gone through marketing. So like she ah to to check if marketing thought it was a goer type thing. So you have to get all of this support for the meeting. So yeah, I don't even know how, two months to me now I think about it, it's not long at all really.
00:14:34
Speaker
Like that's quick. That's quick. Yeah. some ways. Yeah. So I was only on submission for two because she gave me an indication 24 hours in the first, I think, believe 24 hours after we sent it, she sent an email to my agent saying, yeah, yeah, really loving this, which a lot of editors say a lot of the times doesn't necessarily mean anything, but she asked, would she be, would it be a deal breaker to change the title? And that's how we knew she was actually thinking about it. Does that make sense? Cause it's such a, it's such a particular question.
00:15:01
Speaker
And she also asked then for like a series arc, I think a week later. So we were like, okay, she's really thinking about this. But yeah, she was obviously putting something together. takes forever. Yeah. Because I think if you're in a situation as an author where your your book is on sub and and your agent has told you, yes, there's interest from like, you know, one um or more editors, then if you never get an author, it's not because the editor didn't like it or lost interest. It's because the editor couldn't convince the rest of the publisher.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, probably. That it was worth going on. yeah because they're not getting paid for all of that work they're putting in either. It must be heartbreaking if they're putting in all this work into a presentation, they're desperate to get your book. And then maybe it all falls apart for various reasons.
00:15:41
Speaker
Budgets have changed. They went to acquisitions and there were 10 other books before there. so they didn't even get to that book. I know i have a friend that works at another publisher. I won't say which one. and But I know that one of my books that went there, he said that basically that's basically what happened. Yeah.
00:15:55
Speaker
Like it just didn't get to it by the time we had the offer. And then of course you've got to give everyone else a timeline. Like, okay, we've had an offer now. So you've got a week or two to get your offers in. And lots of people just did not have the time to put something together. And that's the reality.
00:16:12
Speaker
Or sometimes just like sales department or marketing department turn around and say, i don't think we can sell this. the Yeah, that happens. In the current market. yeah No matter how much the editor loves it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah. And then when it comes to 24 hour preempts from, I did a really good episode on right and wrong with Phoebe Morgan, who's an editor and I asked her specifically about this and we went into detail about how this works. Essentially what's happening is,
00:16:37
Speaker
a senior one of the more senior editors is basically sticking their neck out and like yeah saying I think this is going to be really good and I'm willing to risk you know some of my uh professional credibility yeah ah exactly on on this on this thing that's because because there's no way that in it's so I mean maybe if all the meetings were already there and they could just fit it in but like in 24 hours to assemble the whole team, get everyone to read it, then do the pitch. It's just not realistic. it's It's usually going to be a small group of people saying this is really worth it. And I think we're willing to risk it.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, which is kind of bonkers, really. I think it's so easy to, you know, we talk about how small the percentages are and stuff, and it's really easy to think, you know, but it's your work and you should be getting like 60% of every sale. But there there's a lot of risk involved with the publisher, with the editors, as you say, like their professional credibility is on the line um for them looking for any other jobs. So the next time they want to acquire something, if they...
00:17:43
Speaker
put stick their neck out and do a big 24-hour preempt or even with a smaller deal if they push really really hard and really really want it and it does not do as well as they are hoping for various different factors ah the blame will fall on them as well I'm sure it must do so yeah it's a risk every time surely they acquire something yeah yeah and that might be reflected in their future budget that they're allowed for you know acquisitions or whatever it may be i mean that would be different published to the publisher and i don't know how that works but yeah like you say if if an editor says no this is good this is going to be great and goes out on a limb and does a 24-hour preempt and then that book does not do great then that yeah that's reflecting on them more than anyone else at the publisher or the author i would say because the publisher is going to be looking at the editor for being like you're the one that went out on a limb for this
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Beyond Editing: Roles of an Editor
00:18:35
Speaker
so So it's a difficult industry at every step of the way. And it's funny to think people complain but you know people are sort of like anxious and worried and stressed about um querying as an author to an agent.
00:18:50
Speaker
But it's like when you think about it, like that goes on and on and on for so many more steps. You query to the agent, then the agent is basically doing the same thing for submissions to editors. And then the editor, once they like something, they now have to create a whole presentation package and try and pitch it to the rest of the publisher. And they have to get a yes from every single person there.
00:19:09
Speaker
The amount of things that have to line up for this to happen is surprising. m but it does happen um books do get acquired and published just to reassure everyone listening um so that's kind of how the process begins yeah um i guess we'll we can talk about what the role of an editor is we've talked in in previous episodes about you know the actual editing process we're not going to talk about that you can check out the previous season i think we did a whole episode on it But like, does an outside of editing the book, is the editor like particularly present in in the kind of publishing process?
00:19:50
Speaker
Yes, but you have less to do with them as the process goes along, I think. so they So they're kind of like your project manager.
00:20:02
Speaker
them to make it really boring yeah they are take all the romance out of it sorry they um they they oversee your book from quail to grave but basically they place you um in different people's hands along the way so once you're done with developmental editing and you move on to line edits and line edits are done and then you're at a copy edit copy edit is usually done with a different editor um probably if you're at like a ah smaller publisher it's probably all the same person but if you're at like um a medium to a large publisher it's it's going to be a specialized editor um and the copy editor will be a brand new person and they'll go through your manuscript and leave comments and that'll be someone completely different And similarly, proofreader will probably be somebody different. And then you move into production and you get a production manager. And that, again, will probably be someone different. But um overarching it all, and you have your editor who is sort of...
00:21:03
Speaker
directing the copy editor what look out for um and they're also directing the art department or the cover designer what kind of vibes the cover should have or how it should look and then presenting it to the internal team and and making sure it fits with the whole uh art direction for the whole publishing house but I mean so so as as you move through the publishing process you do have less and less to do with them um the developmental and line edits are probably by far the largest chunk of it so you will still uh deal with them but i would say probably for like 50-60% of it
00:21:39
Speaker
Okay. And the the other people, so we talk about the other editing that happens or like the cover art and things like that. Do you speak with the people doing that or is the editor still your point of contact for those things?
00:21:51
Speaker
So whilst you're in editing, any type of editing, you're your editor is your point of contact. But when you're in production, yeah you get a production manager and you you go to them if you're concerned, basically.
00:22:02
Speaker
Okay. Okay. yeah Yeah, The main editor still is copied into the emails and often yes yeah contacted me with yeah the other person copied in. Yeah. Okay, okay.
00:22:13
Speaker
I guess because I guess they're the ones that are going to fight for you at the publisher if there was some kind of conflict or issue.
Agent and Author Dynamics in Editorial Issues
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And in that situation, and I would imagine this changes massively from your debut through to like where you guys are at now.
00:22:31
Speaker
ah If there was something that you didn't like that was happening with the book, whether that's like something in the editing or ah like the cover work or something like that. If you wanted to push back, who would you who would you go to?
00:22:49
Speaker
Who would we snitch to? Probably editor. Well, actually, I would usually go to my agent first and ask her advice on who's best to go to, because usually your editor, they'll send out um manuscripts to editors they know and especially publishing houses they know, and they might have a bit of inside info. For instance, they might have something where they say, yes, I have had another client that perhaps had an issue with their cover. and It's best to contact this person. So I would always ask for advice first. Don't know about you, Naomi.
00:23:20
Speaker
uh yeah probably it depends what relationship you have with your editor um when I was at when I was in chicken house um I had quite a good relationship with my editor and so I he actually didn't really like involve my agent much at all really um right but she was cc'd on important stuff obviously but I didn't go to her first I always probably went to my editor um but I had a problem for my second book um around a copy edit phase and I went to my editor and I was like I think this is an issue blah blah blah what do you think um and we worked it out together um so yeah they probably are if if you have any problems they probably are your your main source of contact and yeah because they're the ones who fight for you they're your voice in a room you don't really have a
00:24:09
Speaker
have a a presence in and then they're always going to yeah be like Naomi's got this great idea we think it's really good we think it's going to fit our list brilliantly for next year we should acquire this book too kind of thing so you do want to strike up a good relationship with them And then even though you do get passed to a production manager, that production manager, their job is is very different and not quite as close to your your writing and and your ideas that you have, they're just kind of being given something that's very almost a finished product. So yeah, your editor is probably always gonna be your main source of contact.
00:24:43
Speaker
Okay, but your advice would be first port of call, if you have an agent, is always to go to your agent first. I would just, they sometimes have inside information that's useful. So that's why i have asked before. For instance, I know my agent siblings quite well though. So I can, that's the other thing that's really useful. I've sometimes asked them. So if they're with the same publishing house, I've asked them before and said, you know, oh what, what do you know what to do if you're not happy or like if the copy, who's your copy editor? Cause I'm not sure about these edits this time. I've got a different copy editor and I'm not sure. And you can go in and you can ask and some ah quite often,
00:25:20
Speaker
they'll be Because obviously it's a private conversation. You're not going to say this person told me to come straight to you. but you can ask a little bit of information, a little bit of inside information before you approach. But Naomi's right. If you have a good editor relationship, sometimes you can just ask them directly and it's not an issue. So it does depend. I'm just the sort of person. Did you know I'm a planner and I like to have more information before I do anything? I'm like that. So I will go through. And I'm also not embarrassed to share it my highs and lows. especially on a dm where it's a safe space conversation yeah so i'm quite happy to go and say listen i'm not sure about this can i ask your experience of this you don't have to tell me but if you do it would really help me out i'm just deciding how to handle this so i will collect information first because that's what i'm like but not necessarily every time and i have a good relationship with you know various like dm groups with people who are in the same publishing house or with the same agent so i would collect information but you don't have to
00:26:15
Speaker
It's an interesting point, actually, because i i think you're right. i I think for book two, so my my issue happened on book two. And I think at that point I had been through the wheelhouse once and I knew that what had happened wasn't normal. So I think I went straight to my editor. But if you're if you're a debut and you're on book one and you're really unsure, then yeah, probably your
Collaborative Success: Authors and Editors
00:26:34
Speaker
agent. Yeah.
00:26:35
Speaker
It depends. Yeah. Sorry. That's not very helpful. I was going to say, yeah, you went to your editor who was Cassia again. so you'd already worked with her once. You guys had a very good relationship.
00:26:46
Speaker
In my experience from editors I've spoken to, they um are absolutely open to, and in some cases, like almost encouraging towards, an author I mean copy editing is a bit different but like in terms of the editors themselves if if it's developmental they want you to give your opinion and they want you to stand up and say actually I'm really attached to this bit and can we figure out a way to keep that in like they want you to do that because it is a meat halfway kind of thing Yeah, especially early on when you're working with somebody that has obviously fought for you and they are they're the most interested person in your project at that company because they're the ones that have fought to give you money for that project. So yeah, definitely in the early early stages, when i say early stages, developmental and line, which is usually what your acquiring editor, which is what they call the acquiring editor, um would take.
00:27:34
Speaker
I do think later when it's people I'm not sure of exactly that I might do a little bit more recon before finding out the best way to tackle things. That said, I have never, I've just been really lucky with covers and stuff. So that kind of stuff. And also for copy edits have been fine. So I've been okay about it. Like I've not really disagreed with too much. So I haven't really had to put my foot down very hard on anything. So maybe don't follow my advice. because I've never had like a real issue that I've had to really tackle. I can't think of anything. And there's been really, most of the time I've been lucky enough to work with editors where we're on the same page, literally. So I'm just like, yeah, I actually agree with what you said. That doesn't work. And I will find another way to fix it. So it's not really been an issue.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think what it you two, hasn't really been the case. I mean, I think both of you sort of your main kind of early experience was with Cassia, who's like, I mean this is basically a Cassia Looper fan club. This we all love Cassia. She's like the nicest person and like not intimidating at all.
00:28:40
Speaker
Um, but I think for a lot of I have heard plenty of stories where a debut author has like, um, and mainly because they probably just don't know their editor where they go to their agent and then their agent basically becomes the mouthpiece for like, here's the issues that we're having. And the agent acts as the bad guy. So the author doesn't have to.
00:29:01
Speaker
And think that's fine and normal. And that's fine, yeah. Because, I mean, they're earning 15%. That's what they're for. So if you want it if you want to use them, they're getting paid for it. so Yeah. And they they are, like, not the bad guy. That sounds terrible. But... You know, I remember when, you know, we've obviously gone into meetings, you know, you have like a Zoom call the first time you meet your editor after you've accepted an offer.
00:29:25
Speaker
And you sometimes have been told information like, oh yeah, we really need to get them higher on this amount. Oh, well, you know, actually in the end, I've managed to get you a higher percentage. And i think' I think we're, think we're gonna, you know, deal with this number or whatever it may be in your contract negotiations. And the whole time I'm sat there thinking, oh my God, weren't you just like having a fight basically two days ago? That's how feel. to me i'm like were you fighting each other on something like a percentage or something two days ago or
The Stress of Debut and Follow-Up Edits
00:29:51
Speaker
ah a right like oh yeah we want to keep us rights or whatever it may be we don't want to give them us rights but we want to keep the same amount of money so i'm going to fight you hard for this and then you go in and i'm thinking i've sat there in the zoom like i'm so sorry if we were difficult oh which is stupid because obviously it's just business and they don't really care and negotiations usually aren't even technically necessarily with your editor it might be with the contracts department and there's all this other stuff but sometimes you do feel a bit like oh no my i hope my agent didn't upset you which is not actually what happens at all so sometimes yeah you can absolutely say your agent did because that is what they're there for they're there to be the business side so that you don't have to do it if you don't want to mm-hmm
00:30:34
Speaker
yeah yeah and i think if you're not comfortable doing it and it might just be that it's very early on and you know a lot of the the the times i've heard about it is it's often a debut author and it's often like right at the start of the process where they haven't necessarily gotten to know the editor that well so like they've got their like first developmental edits back and that's shocked them which is very normal i think a lot of debut authors don't You know, sometimes the extent of those edits is much larger than they were anticipating. Right. Exactly.
00:31:06
Speaker
that You know, they're worried because they're, you know, they didn't think this was going to happen. So they go to their agent and and like they don't want to confront the editor because they don't know the editor, even though the editor would probably prefer that than going through the agent as a mediator. Yeah. I think that's really normal and common.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I definitely contact the editor in that first. But I always copy my agent in anyway, so she knows exactly what I'm saying. And then also got to remember sometimes you'll sign and they'll say, great, you've signed in 2025. Your book is coming out October, 2027. So you will not get those. So you're like, I'm so excited. My acquiring editor seems so nice in that 40 minute Zoom call. And then you will not hear from them for seven months. It's so funny. And they drop into your inbox with. their edit letter and of course you're going to crap yourself because you're like oh god I forgot this person even existed and I'm so excited to see the edit letter but also there's loads to do and again i i literally spoke to this person once seven months ago for 40 minutes so yeah it can be really stressful because you might not necessarily be in close contact this time even though it was a two-year schedule
00:32:07
Speaker
It sold in June 2024. Yes, that's right. God, I got a forgot what year it was. and And it's coming out March 2026. We did start edits quite quickly. When I was at Chicken House with Kezia, I was friendly with Kezia anyway, sort of in online circles. I've met her a couple of times. and So I felt comfortable chatting to her on like a friendly basis, say online. But we didn't start edits for nearly a year, I think. Whereas this time, I think literally i think i think they offered in yeah they offered in June. i think by the end of June, July, I had like a first developmental pass letter.
00:32:41
Speaker
So we started quite quickly. So we didn't have that big gap, but before I had had a big gap. So yeah, sometimes you have this huge gap and it's
Multi-Book Deals: Challenges and Experiences
00:32:48
Speaker
scary. Yeah, nothing happens for ages. Yeah, and you're like, first are they still hello? did you Are you still releasing my book? You get bit mad at me.
00:32:58
Speaker
And then the first thing you'll hear is, ah hey, remember me? Here's all the things we're going to change in your book. Yeah, exactly. it's terrifying. It's like, oh, my God, look, my editor's in my inbox. And you click it and it's like, here's a 12-page edit letter. You just want to drop. That's not what I want. I want you tell me it was perfect and you're publishing it tomorrow.
00:33:15
Speaker
And on top of that, chances are you're well underway with whatever book you're writing next as like a follow up or like a completely different book. And yeah and you're like um like, oh gosh, I need to get back into the mindset of that previous I haven't looked at for six months.
00:33:30
Speaker
yeah That's so true. Yeah, that that definitely happens. So it's even more daunting. It's always rolling. This is the thing. And yet and it's even, I mean, so i this is my first time in a multi-book deal. And it's been really strange being in contract to write the next book with the same editor.
00:33:47
Speaker
And whereas usually I'm scrambling for my next contract. I had two books in a row with Chicken House, but um I tried to sell on proposal. And I just feel like that doesn't happen very often anymore. You know, it's sort of a sample.
00:33:59
Speaker
first couple of chapters, if people don't know, and like a pitch. And they liked the pitch and they said, yeah, if you write it, we might buy it. So then I had to write it. And so really I sent in a draft. We had sit with my agent, sent it in. And then, yeah, they did buy it and they bought it quite quickly because obviously they knew me. And so I probably did. jump head a bit into acquisitions because they were like okay well yeah we can release this the following year that'll work but um yeah this is the first time i'm working with an editor on the next project so it is different i think if you're working especially on a project that you're thinking maybe it's in a different age group so you're going to send it out like on submission like so chicken house would never publish they don't publish picture books they don't publish adult books So if you're working on a picture or an adult book, they wouldn't look at it anyway. So if you're in contract with a publisher like that, and then you're writing something else, it almost feels even more awkward when they pop up. You're like, oh yeah, it's you. Hey, and it's always fine, but it's just a bit weird. Like how long the timeline is.
00:34:57
Speaker
Well, going in onto that with the multi-book deal, Naomi, your first deal was a multi-book deal. And ah people I've spoken to, I mean, I would imagine it seems obvious that,
00:35:07
Speaker
When you go in to do that second book, you already have the rapport and the relationship with the editor. It's usually going to be the same editor. Does it make everything a lot smoother and just move faster because you're like, okay, we've done one. We know how this works. We know each other.
00:35:22
Speaker
Let's go. Yes, it does. um But it's no less stressful, I think. Right. Yeah, you know the process, you know what's going to happen probably.
00:35:33
Speaker
You're probably most of the way through the process of the first book. So you know roughly what's going to happen. But the thing of it is, is that your first book, you probably will have spent a couple of years on it just yourself. Whereas and by the time you've you know you've been querying it, trying to get an agent and then that you edit it, your agent goes out and submission and then you're in publishing. But and for your second book, the process is so much quicker because you're you're writing this and manuscript and you're not you don't have the time on it that you normally do. And so you're passing it passing it on. And I remember feeling very vulnerable with my second manuscript because...
00:36:16
Speaker
And it wasn't a first draft. I would never pass an editor a first draft just because like, my God, I have some pride, but like, ah i I would pass them like sort of like a, maybe like a second or a third draft. and And, but it's still very early on in the stage, probably. Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
And to them, it probably reads like a first draft. and So it's it's it's no less stressful. And then you get this editor editorial letter sorry that is probably more detailed than the first one because your book that sells your first book that sells them is probably further through the process because it's at least had one professional look at i.e. your agent, whereas this one is is going in cold. um And it's...
00:36:59
Speaker
it's the the edits that you're going to do to it are probably a lot bigger, a lot more challenging. And so, yeah, well, you know what's coming. It's, it's still really stressful. I think book two is horrible. They also, i would imagine second time around because of the relationship that you guys now have, they probably would also an an editor. I imagine they're very good at reading the author. Like they have to adapt to every author because every author is going to want a different amount of push and pull in terms of the edits.
00:37:26
Speaker
And that's, I think an unsung, unsung skill that editors have. And I think the second time around you do a book that there's probably a part of the editor that's like, they can handle a bit more. You know, we did this once we published a book together. i can and go a bit harder on my initial, um, editor's note.
00:37:43
Speaker
Whereas previously they might've been like, I'm going to put some of the stuff here. And then when we come to the next one, I'm going to add the other stuff that I already had in mind. Does that make sense? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker
And then also, I think like they editors quite like putting their stamp on books. I think we're hearing a lot about because it's so hard to sell at the minute. I keep hearing things like, oh, books must be perfect, like shelf perfect when they get sent to an editor for acquisitions. And I do think that obviously because editors are so pressed for time and there's all sorts of issues could go into about like how underpaid are. predators off the amount of hours they put in um so they do want i think more polished manuscripts but i think they also think they like putting a bit of a stamp on a manuscript and putting a bit of house style on the manuscript um so
Draft Submissions and Editorial Collaboration
00:38:30
Speaker
sometimes perhaps they enjoy working from like a more basic because i have no pride at all so i do send in a first draft uh send one to my agent and i'll send it to um i've got first draft due
00:38:43
Speaker
to send to my editor. Your first drafts are so much more polished. Yeah. So obviously my first drafts are absolutely perfect. I need no editing whatsoever. They are perfection on earth. It's more that I just plan them so much that the plot is fine. Usually there's loads of character work to do. But if the plot is like in a semi-okay position, then we're not going to be pulling apart huge chunks of the manuscript anyway, necessarily in the first pass. So yeah, I do send in a first draft. I usually send in an edit letter with the first draft that I've written to myself as I've been writing it. Like, I know that this character disappears halfway through. I need to make them a bigger thing in the second half. Or I know that the romance needs work or something like that. So I will give them my notes as well. But yeah, I think it's scary. was to my Discord about this, which is about 10 authors. And some are like six-figure authors and some you know, sort of medium authors, like mid-list. And they were all saying different things. Some of them were like, oh, yeah, I polished with an inch of its life before I send off like a second book. And other ones were saying, oh, I literally sent in a first draft to the point where some parts say, insert fight scene here. I'll do it Yeah. And they're just like, that's fine. Not a big deal. And it's quite funny how like different people have different ways of doing it. But all the editors are OK about that. And I do think they enjoy developing a story with the author. I think surely that's part of the excitement and the thrill of them acquiring it in the first place and acquiring you as an author is they want to work with you when they can. Yeah, they like your writing as opposed to the book.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Once you get to the second book. And I guess the more raw the prose that you send them, the more they can, um, like help you mold it. If you, if you send them like a fully, like as polished as you can get it end of, you know, full manuscript, yeah then obviously they're still, good you know, they still work with it just like they did the first time around, but they can't mold it in the creation process in the same way. Cause I've spoken to, and it's usually with um authors who have have like five, six, ten books with the same publisher, with the same editor. But I've spoken to authors who will just send like three chapters to the editor of their new thing.
00:40:55
Speaker
And then, you know, another three chapters, just kind of sporadically sending bits and bobs to the editor as and when. Yes. Yeah. I know people have done that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all different. Like they will adapt to the author because they love their writing. Because that's the whole thing, I guess, with a multi-book deal, you would hope that the logic behind a multi-book deal is they're believing in you as an author and a brand. And they would like to help with the molding process as it goes along. Or else they would just offer on that one book.
YA vs. Adult Book Markets
00:41:22
Speaker
Yes. If they were thinking, not that obviously if you've got one, but I've had loads of one book deals. It's not like I think you're rubbish, but love this one book. Somebody who's had several one book deals. It's not what they're thinking. But you would think that if they're able to get marketing, et cetera, on board for a multi book deal, they would enjoy molding with you and trying to come up with something that would work in house for them for hopefully a long time.
00:41:44
Speaker
okay Yeah, they're trying to create a ah loyal author to stay in the stable with the publisher. Yeah. um getting we We've gone slightly past acquisitions a bit here, but I think that's fine.
00:41:59
Speaker
um i just had a couple more things I wanted to ask. ah You two have both started in YA and you've since ah you have upcoming adult books coming out. Was the acquisition process different for YA and adult or pretty much the same?
00:42:16
Speaker
For me, it was just a little bit different in that I had a call with the editor before i got an offer. and I've never had that before. So with with my YA, we signed the deal before I... oh No, actually, that's not true. i got We agreed the offer before I met them, and then we met them and discussed editorial ideas. Whereas with the adult one, we discussed editorial ideas, and then I got the offer.
00:42:44
Speaker
and that's been the biggest difference for me and everything else has probably been the same that's that's you the yeah that usually happens more with um if a book goes to auction if there's like multiple publishers involved then they'll all meet with the author and the agent yeah which makes sense yeah Yeah.
00:43:08
Speaker
Okay. That's interesting. Did you find that Melissa or was yours? So mine's a weird one in that it was that pesky crossover area. So mine went out to adult and YA imprints and And so to me, i found kind of no difference apart from the fact the pool was bigger.
00:43:27
Speaker
So there were more yeah publishers because we were going out to both adult and YA. And Lucy was very carefully, my agent, checking, does this publisher do crossover or is it just squarely YA, etc.?
00:43:42
Speaker
So when we landed with, we've actually landed with Hachette Children's Hodder, which is me does mean it's going to come out as YA, but I would say it's suitable for the crossover space. So there's no over Spice, for instance, because it is YA.
00:43:58
Speaker
However, ah most of the characters, I think the youngest character is 18. So I would say it would appeal to the crossover space. um So it was a bit of a weird one. And then I have i have written...
00:44:10
Speaker
an adult book um that's in no shape to go out yet but hopefully will go out at some point on submission and it'll be interesting to see if that's different from when we because again i think just because of where my voice lands that may also the characters are sort of in their 20s that may also end up being a sort of crossover gray area um but yeah the number one thing i really noticed was um this one going out as it was and being aged down now but it did go out as technically an adult I suppose I think the characters were in their 20s when it started and they've been aged down slightly was just the number of flipping publishers around for adult books wow it's a whole new world it's crazy these people yeah i it really was yeah so funny you should say because for my white my most recent YA submission I went out to 16
00:44:59
Speaker
ah editors for my adult submission i went out to like 47 it's crazy yeah
Emotional Journeys of Book Acquisitions
00:45:04
Speaker
it's crazy isn't it yeah turns out why a much smaller market than adult yeah who knew apparently everyone but that's okay now i do
00:45:19
Speaker
ah Okay, with the the final thing I wanted to ask, which I think will be probably most informative for anyone listening is, um how what what are the differences in the terms of how you felt or acted the first time you had a book acquired versus now when you get a book acquired?
00:45:40
Speaker
her I'm scared to answer uh for my YA I ah i was very very I mean it was okay this is gonna sound odd I was very very excited like this was like a dream come true um everything was right with the world i could nothing could ever bring me down um for my this acquisition whilst i am still so excited it's more a sense of relief that like okay thank the lord i can still do this i'm still capable of doing this yeah
00:46:23
Speaker
if ah how about you melva Yeah, that's like, ah yeah. So the first time I spent three years languishing on submission. i'd been through a failed attempt. Well, it was a lovely company. was COVID. It wasn't their fault of this sort of digital first thing and being very unsure about it, then being excited. Then unfortunately they had to close and then I was self-publishing. So I'd been through this real journey to to get a This trad deal with an advance, it was not a large advance, but it was like, it might as well have been seven figures. I was so excited. was like, oh my God, did I did it, mom. I did it. I did thing. And I was so excited. And like, yeah, exactly. I remember I probably spent half the advance just like, I'm going to celebrate again because it's so much fun. Like, I can't believe I'm so smart. I've got this book.
00:47:15
Speaker
So yeah, I was definitely like that. And then of course, the thing that happens when you debut, I was chomping at the bit to write more stuff because I'd got this big boost. And of course it was like, okay, it's two years your book comes out. Like, call your jets. You can't really go out with another YA right now. We're actually just going to have to wait, which was like awful. And I think now I'm further in and got a few things under my belt and this new deal, I was very excited. As I said, was going through a strange time in my life. So I wasn't probably as excited as I should have been when the offer came in because there was a lot going on and I'd forgotten about it a little bit.
00:47:52
Speaker
However, the thing that was really nice, which reminded me of that very first time I signed, because when I signed with Kezia and then Kezia left to become an agent. And so I had a different editor for my second book. And it was really fun, but um it was acquired by sort of the head honchos at Chicken House. And then and this editor came on to edit the book, if that makes sense. And she's lovely. She's called Shalu. And it was great, but it was a different relationship because she wasn't technically the acquiring person and it was a completely different way of working. And then...
00:48:25
Speaker
working with UCLan, Fox and Ink books. it's They only really have sort of one overall editor and then they work with the university students to do various parts of the editing process, which is fascinating, but again, really different. So going into another deal where an editor who did not know me was very excited about my book was really nice.
00:48:44
Speaker
Like that was really nice. And I'd kind of forgotten, that you know, I felt a little bit I'd been sort of, you know, I'd sort of negotiate this one with Fox and Ink a little bit. And then with the second Chicken House book, I believe Kezia was involved in some of the acquisitions, but then she went. So I was kind of passed to somebody else, if you like, who was great, but was not the original champion yeah of that book, if that makes sense. Whereas this is really nice because I'm going in. Somebody is a real champion of this book. They really love it. And that was really nice. But it came later, that feeling. And also the relief thing. And yet you do get a bit battered as you're going through This will be the fourth publisher I've worked with. So it's a little bit apprehensive. It's a new person again.
00:49:23
Speaker
um It feels like the devil you devil you know type thing sometimes. and So you worry a little bit about what's it going to be like this time. I feel like I keep moving schools. i feel like an army browse. It keeps being moved around. So it can be a bit stressful. ah But I feel like I'm going in with my eyes wide open this time and they have been really, really good. So I'm quite i'm like quietly excited this time that's the difference like last time i was like okay i'm just gonna tell everyone gonna be a bestseller because i will be and i'm rich now because i've been given some money and this time i'm being a lot more you know conservative about like the money they've given me i've been a lot more sensible and i'm not doing that but i i am quietly excited about it i think that's the way i yeah describe it yeah mean I mean, a lot of it's just about expectation, right? You guys know yeah the kind of what it is to be like mid list author. Obviously you hope for the best, but the the reality is there's only so many authors that can be like international bestsellers and get their books made into movies and TV shows and stuff. yes It's like yeah the 0.01%. So yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
so yeah I think it's just, you're just realistic about it now. You've been through it yeah a few times and you guys know like, this is great, but I know, you know, what happened, you know, where we're at and how the, how this, what the status quo is basically.
00:50:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you've got to you've got to sort of watch the expectations, but also celebrate, which can be hard, I think. Sometimes can be too grumpy about things when really it's going quite well. Like, it's really good. I'm quite happy where am. But I can be quite grumpy about it, I think, because I worry about tempering my own
Realistic Expectations in Publishing
00:51:00
Speaker
expectations.
00:51:00
Speaker
When I do feel a tiny spark of excitement, I'm like, don't do it. oh don't give it you never know i know it's terrible isn't it it's not even like anything bad happened with my first books but you're totally right as soon as your book sells you're like so i can't wait to hear how much the film rights go for what will i wear to the premiere mean 20 countries would be good but 25 would be better for foreign rights you know we'll just have to see like it feels like that And then, yeah, by the fourth book, it's like, okay, cool. They like me.
00:51:30
Speaker
Wow. Okay, great. Yeah. Let's keep going. I get it. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like, um you you know what is likely going to happen and it's probably going to be good. It's going to be decent. But there's always that part of you at the back of your mind that's like, what if I won the lottery? what if Yeah, it could be me. Mine was the book. Yeah, I know. And it it could be, it could be anyone that's excited about their book, but yeah, you've got to be realistic. I think or else you disappoint yourself.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah. Don't get, don't get, don't start picturing yourself on the red carpet with the celebrities who are playing the characters in your book and stuff. It could happen, but don't bank on it.
Appreciating Behind-the-Scenes Efforts
00:52:10
Speaker
what What will Pedro Pascal buy for me when he's starring in my film? It's so exciting, the possibilities, but don't get too excited. Yeah, I can't wait to be in the interview and tell him that this whole character was written for him to play. Yeah, exactly.
00:52:26
Speaker
It's going to be so funny. Everyone's going to clip it. can't wait go viral. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean... I think pretty realistically, it's about expectations, but you guys knowing what where things are and not getting ahead of yourselves. like But I think every, almost every debut author, like when it's the first time you don't know what to expect and you're like, wow, what if what if I'm, you know, mega famous after this? What if everything goes up from this point onwards?
00:52:55
Speaker
And it can, but it's a very small number of people that that happens to. So just temper your expectations. um I think, ah was there anything else you guys had on that? That was basically what I had on acquisitions and and editors.
00:53:09
Speaker
Anything else you guys thought we should touch on? no yeah um salt yeah do i don't i don't think so yeah i think it's not like a huge it's it's one of those things it's not talked about that often but i think it's also not like a massive part of the process it happens quite quickly but once it does happen yeah yeah um oh yeah that's the weird thing about it you can be on submission for a year, for months, nothing happening, nothing in your inbox.
00:53:37
Speaker
And then it feel it feels to you, especially if your agent's working behind the scenes, it feels to you like, and then suddenly there's an email in your inbox and it might be an auction. It might be. Weirdly, preempts can still happen even later because it's the first time they've picked it up. So they're like, we're going to preempt this because we think it will go to auction. even if they got it seven months ago. That is the excitement of it. That is really hard. It's like being an adrenaline junkie is submission is horrible. It is horrible. It's really stressful, but you know, the whole time that this amazing thing might happen any second and it would turn your entire day around if that happened. And that is very exciting despite myself, despite all the disappointment.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if even if it seems like nothing's happening to you as the author, ah often your agent is doing a lot in the background. And also the editor
Conclusion and Social Media Engagement
00:54:28
Speaker
is probably doing a lot in the background as they're kind of yeah trying to make up a presentation and and get the rest of the publisher on side. And like we said, for Melissa, it was like two months. That is kind of a short time. This can sometimes be up to like six months where the editor is just in like in you know like we said they're not getting paid for this that they have to do that that their main thing is to like obviously edit and find and do all that stuff yeah they're they're going to be they could be working hard on something for six months to present to finally convince the rest of their team that they can send you an offer so yeah lots of people are often working behind the scenes you just don't know it
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah, so it's all about patience. We're moving on to the next thing, hoping that the acquisition process is just happening in the background, which is horrible for a control enthusiast such as myself.
00:55:17
Speaker
but Control enthusiast. Okay. That's a nice way of putting it. Not a freak. That's rude.
00:55:25
Speaker
um Awesome. ah Let's wrap things up then with, it's been a while since we recorded one of these. um Have you guys been reading anything, watching anything new recently?
00:55:38
Speaker
I've been playing Expedition 33. Let's go. No spoilers. It's a spoiler heavy game. saw one online. really pissed me off. I haven't seen any.
00:55:52
Speaker
it For some reason it was all over my... No, I'm not going to. It was all over my TikTok FYP and I made the mistake of clicking on comments and I was like, ah that the game's only been out for like, what, three months and just people are dropping spoilers in comments. I don't know.
00:56:08
Speaker
Anyway, it's really good. That's all I can say without spoilers. How far through are you? Have you finished it? and so we've No, so we just entered act three. Yeah. yeah Okay.
00:56:20
Speaker
You know where That's a little spoiler in itself, but we'll let it slide. Most games have acts, don't they? Sorry. Okay. Oh, that wasn't a spoiler, was it? Yeah, okay. Zip lip. Just move on. Melova, what are you watching? wow ah Yeah, go ahead. Melova, what you got? so i I have a cinema card. So I have been enjoying...
00:56:46
Speaker
forget hot girl summer it's pedro pascal summer so went to go and see fantastic four yeah fun okay yeah most dramatic yeah yeah i loved it yeah first of all pedro was there and also some other stuff happened um
00:57:02
Speaker
Is it set in the past? I really enjoyed it. Yes, but an alternate Earth. It's read for future, isn't it? Oh, alternate Earth. It's alternate Earth, 60s. Yeah, yeah. It tells you which Earth is at the beginning if you're a real Marvel nerd and which Earth is. I get it. Have you guys seen Thunderbolts?
00:57:20
Speaker
No. and you've watched the post i mean if you've seen the post thunderbolts very good but if you've watched the post credit scene of thunderbolts then some things are tied up about fantastic yes which i was expecting to happen in the film but it did not happen in the film so that's interesting so i assume they're doing more yeah yeah um I won't say any more. I have... Oh, I read um Jacqueline Wilson's adult book, Think Again, ah which is a continuation of Girls in Love for Book Club. And let me tell you right now, there's there's the reviews online are not good for this book. And it's got a very interesting writing style. And...
00:58:02
Speaker
It was not well received at book club, but when it got to my turn to rate the book and they were like, why don'd you give it a 10? I was like 10. And they were like, wow, that's Queen Jacqueline. It's Queen Jacqueline. Do you know wrong? Nothing said against her. i don't need to read it, it's tense.
00:58:17
Speaker
You don't need to read it. Yeah, just give it a 10 right now. It's the best book I've ever read. Yeah, obviously. It was nice revisiting with the characters. I don't know how else to explain it. It is very strangely written. It's written like Girls in Love was, which I read when I was 12, 13.
00:58:32
Speaker
um Yeah, it's it's strange. It's strange, but it's perfect. So everyone go and buy Think Again by Jacqueline Wilson. Okay. Is it the same characters? It interesting time.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yes. It's Ellie. Follow Ellie. Yeah. right Yeah. And you sort of learn about Ellie's journey through life. It was fun, actually. Yeah. If you've read the other ones, which none of Book Club had apart from me. So of course I was like, it is perfect. And they were like, what are you talking about? And I was like, silence fools. Absolutely not. We will not have anything said against Queen Jacqueline. So um yeah, that was an interesting read. And then I think just on TV, I've been watching Andor, because as you said, Jamie, it's in like little threes. my God.
00:59:12
Speaker
So like you can watch like a little three. yeah They're in like trilogies because it's counting. I didn't realize it's like counting down to every every time I see is it BB4, BBY? And then I'm just like, oh, it's like a baby. Then Callum's like, no, it's not like a baby.
00:59:27
Speaker
It's counting down to the film. yes that's so cute baby four it's like bb8 and he was like no it's not yeah yet um and this isn't a spoiler because rogue one exists yes it's it it ends ah it ends at the start of rogue one yes that's what i'm assuming yeah when i finished it i immediately watched rogue one because it literally like it ends with him walking towards the so towards the ship which like and then when you meet him in Rogue One he's walking towards the ship.
00:59:59
Speaker
Oh that's interesting we might do that then yeah I think we've got I think we've got like the last trilogy of episodes left so that's been that's been really good and obviously oh my god can't believe I didn't tell you this I've been watching The Summer I Turn Pretty obviously because it's back guys it's back i've everyone excited it's back and oh do you know what season three episode five people in the know will know has actually redeemed the entire thing Best episode art is amazing. The entire thing.
01:00:25
Speaker
The entirety of the two and a half seasons i have seen of Summer I Turn Pretty have all been redeemed by this one episode from Comrade's point of view. if you know, you know.
01:00:37
Speaker
Like, oh, I was like, it all makes sense now. Mind blown. I've changed teams. It's yeah wild times. Me and my 14 year old cousin texting. Wild. Did you watch the latest episode? of That's so cool. So like, like a lot of animes that I'm recommended by my friends, you have to watch two seasons before it gets good.
01:00:58
Speaker
Yeah, basically it annoys you. Everyone's actions annoy you for two and half seasons. And in this episode, you understand why everyone's acted a particular way. And you're like, oh, okay.
01:01:09
Speaker
And it's such a good episode. It was so good. I was like, all right, I'm sold now. After sitting through this. I say sold now as if I wasn't enjoying it before. Obviously, I love it. watch it so much. But yeah, very good.
01:01:23
Speaker
Well, a surprisingly good review for Summer I Turned Pretty from Melissa. Who knew? I've been watching, oh, speaking of revisiting old characters, I watched Happy Gilmore 2. What did you do?
01:01:35
Speaker
What was it like? To be honest, it's absolutely not the worst legacy sequel I've seen. It's more Happy Gilmore. It's Happy Gilmore, but they're all 30 years older or whatever is. he the same character? He gets angry at the ball and stuff.
01:01:50
Speaker
ye Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's been no growth. To honest, there has been growth. There has been growth. ah it's I think it's it's an absolutely worthwhile sequel. it's it's exactly It's basically the same as the first one, but it's like just as it's like um right it's just as stupid, just as silly, just as nonsensical, but like with a little bit of heart, like just enough heart for you to be like, yeah, I can get behind this.
01:02:20
Speaker
It was fun. Yeah. I mean, it's Netflix. So I imagine most people would just have that anyway. Yeah. keep It keeps getting recommended to me. What was what what the I really liked was The Residence, which is Shondaland.
01:02:35
Speaker
And it's basically Knives Out in the White House. white house It's good. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. enjoyed it. Yeah. I really liked it. Was that Netflix as well? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think it is, isn't it? Cause Bridgerton's Netflix and I feel like they've got a lot of the Shonda Rhimes stuff.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and now that I've finally moved house, uh, I am reading again. So I've picked back up. I kind of haven't been reading for a while. It's one of, sadly when I'm, when I've got a lot going on, it's one of the first things to fall by the wayside, but I've picked up a little hatred again, which is Gerald McCrombie's book.
01:03:09
Speaker
Um, so I'm reading that again, which I'm, which I'm very much enjoying. He is an excellent writer. And that's what we've been up to. um And that's the end of the episode. So I guess we will see everyone next week for more of whatever we're talking about. haven't got the list in front of me.
01:03:27
Speaker
Book covers. Oh yeah. Yes, it is that. but Book covers. Come back.
01:03:36
Speaker
Thanks for putting up with our nonsense for another episode. To stay tuned to everything we're up to, you can follow the podcast on all socials at The Chosen Tropes. Follow Melissa at Meliva, Naomi at Naomi G. Writes, and Jamie at Jamie X. Greenwood.
01:03:49
Speaker
Don't forget to check out Naomi and Melissa's books, as well as the Right and Wrong podcast. Thanks again, and we'll see you on the next trope.