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207- Insensitive vegans with low "EQ"...
94 Plays12 days ago
According to Jordan Cooper, "if you’re vegan but never try to convert others, you probably exhibit...high EQ qualities". And whether Jordan is an AI-bot or not, the article that appears under their name in Veg Out Magazine https://vegoutmag.com/lifestyle/gen-if-youre-vegan-but-never-try-to-convert-others-you-probably-exhibit-these-high-eq-qualities/ raises some interesting questions around 'converting' people to veganism and how we represent ourselves and the movement. Carlos, Paul & Ant get stuck into this article and try to work out what we can learn from it.
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Carlos, Paul & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction to Veganism and Emotional Intelligence
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody. Now, did you know that converting someone to veganism actually means that you're really thick? I'm Anthony. For this episode of Vegan Talk, I'm also joined by Paul and by Carlos.
00:00:14
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your lab grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick.
00:00:41
Speaker
of social injustice has connection with another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
Meet the Hosts
00:00:57
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello everyone this is Paul. Welcome to everyone listening to this episode of Vegan Talk and thank you for joining us.
00:01:08
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Thanks for listening. This is Carlos. And this is Vegan Talk, where we discussed one aspect or one piece of news or or a topic which has kind of caught our attention. And we just like to have a ah big debate about it.
00:01:23
Speaker
And I should also mention that we have we've had far you know lot more episodes of Vegan Talk before. And you can check them out in your favorite podcast feed. Indeed.
00:01:34
Speaker
It will probably even be there in your least favourite one as well, but there's no guarantees.
Article Overview: Quiet Vegans and EQ
00:01:40
Speaker
Today, we are discussing an article from Veg Out magazine. It's focusing, as my slightly sardonic introduction, focused on EQ.
00:01:51
Speaker
What's that even? Emotional intelligence? Something like that. Anyway... It's focusing on some some broader topics. So we're not just going to focus on this article. We might be talking about broader themes that is brought up in it.
00:02:05
Speaker
If you want to read the article first, there is a link in the show notes. I reckon it will take you three minutes tops to read, depending on your reading speed. Of course, your RQ, perhaps.
00:02:17
Speaker
Anyway, VegOut Magazine, what is it? You might have read their stuff before, you might have no idea at all. Let's hear what they say about themselves. They say, our mission is to inspire change makers, leaders, and trendsetters to adopt a more sustainable and plant-based lifestyle.
00:02:33
Speaker
interesting. What do they cover? They say they cover news, food and drink, shopping, travel, things to do, fashion and beauty, and more. And if you follow the link in the show notes of the article, you'll be able to see lots more of their stuff.
00:02:49
Speaker
So what about this article then? Well, it caught my attention a few months ago when I was researching for the show and I put a little bookmark in it and I thought that'd be an interesting one talk about. It came out on June the 24th, 2025.
00:03:04
Speaker
The author's name is Jordan Cooper and the headline says, if you're vegan but never try to convert others, you probably exhibit these high EQ qualities. And then the little subtitle says, you don't need to preach to make an impact.
00:03:21
Speaker
Quiet vegans often embody the deepest emotional intelligence, and here's why that matters. Now, like I say, it's not a particularly deep read. they that It's not gonna take you long to read it at all,
00:03:34
Speaker
I could read out the whole thing, but I'm not going to. What I will do is the author has separated it out into nine different points, and then they give a little final bite, as they call it.
00:03:48
Speaker
So here are the nine points. They call them the high EQ qualities that you're probably rocking without even realizing it if your approach to veganism isn't just about food.
00:04:02
Speaker
Slightly confusing. Anyway, let's go. The point number one, you respect autonomy even when you disagree. So it's basically saying you don't push your belief onto other people.
00:04:15
Speaker
Point two, you know when to listen and when not to engage. And the author focuses on the reci being the recipient of unsolicited opinions such as where do you get your protein and I could never give up cheese.
00:04:29
Speaker
Point three, you separate identity from ego and the author there is talking about veganism becoming a badge or a brand but actually saying that high EQ folks don't need to broadcast their diets to feel validated.
00:04:46
Speaker
Point number four, you lead by example, not pressure. So it gives the example of turning up a barbecue with your beautiful plant-based food, but you're not trying to convince anybody with anything. You just lead by example.
00:05:00
Speaker
Point number five, you have compassion for humans, not just animals. And ah the author is talking here. about understanding that people eat the way they do for complex reasons such as culture, tradition, accessibility, trauma, even economics.
00:05:17
Speaker
Point number six, you embrace nuance in a black and white world. So here the author is talking about sort of non-judgment, I suppose, and saying, well, actually there might be reasons that somebody's flexitarian rather than being a, quote, perfect vegan.
00:05:33
Speaker
Point seven, you practice self-awareness without guilt-tripping others. Kind of an extension of the previous point. The examples given are not guilt-tripping friends, not calling your grandma's roast murder.
00:05:46
Speaker
Point eight, you find joy in your choices, not superiority. I think that one kind of speaks for itself. It's basically talking about enjoying your plant-based diet and not focusing on the fact that you're better than everyone else.
00:05:59
Speaker
And the final point, point nine, you build bridges not walls. So connecting, finding things that connect us rather than things that divide us. I'm going to read out the final bite because it's just a few sentences.
00:06:13
Speaker
Being vegan isn't just about what's on your plate. It's also about how you show up in the world. If you've chosen a plant-based life and don't feel the need to convert every carnivore you meet, give yourself credit.
00:06:25
Speaker
You're probably practicing empathy, self-awareness, nuance, and kindness at a level that many aspire to but rarely achieve. And if someone does ask where you get your protein, you already know the answer from kindness mostly and maybe a little tofu.
00:06:43
Speaker
Okay, like I say, follow the link in the show notes to read the whole thing. Paul and Carlos and myself have read the whole thing and we're gonna give you our verdict now. as well as discuss some of the broader themes. Paul, are you happy to kick the ball off here? What what were your feelings when reading this article?
Paul's Perspective on Emotional Intelligence vs. Activism
00:07:00
Speaker
Yes, it kind of changed. I read it through two or three times. Initially, I thought, well, this is a sort of article that's a bit of an abolitionist nightmare, and I'm not really an abolitionist. I think I'm kind of more leaning towards what people might term welfarist.
00:07:14
Speaker
Overall, the article... feels like it's trying to say that emotional intelligence is so sits above veganism and that's kind of the better thing to focus on, which I found a bit worried worrying.
00:07:26
Speaker
And the various quotes in here about saying veganism isn't just about food, well it's not. So I think he's got that wrong to start with. But as i went as I read through it again... I did think that actually there's a few things in here that resonated with me that were quite useful and quite useful for how you address engaging with people and and talking about veganism. and And that's sort of things like reading the room, choosing your battles, trying to be sympathetic to what people, like listening to what people say in terms of things they might put up as objections to why they don't go vegan.
00:08:00
Speaker
But I think the difference being is This article would almost say, well, stop there because you've got high emotional intelligence, where I'd say, no, you listen to what's being said, and then you then you craft your discussion, maybe persuasively to say, I hear what you're saying about this, you know, maybe cost, et cetera. And then you kind of use it like that.
00:08:19
Speaker
But, you know similarly, i don't i'm not I'm not always 100% selling in veganism. Sometimes you're tired. Sometimes you don't want to do it. We're not perfect. I pick them up at the moments, pick the right people to to do it. So think there's a few bits in here. But yeah, we can delve more into the individual points, I guess. um Let Carlos have a bit of an overview on what he
Carlos Critiques the Article
00:08:38
Speaker
thinks. Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
Gosh, just, it's yeah it is a nightmare, this article. it's It's, I mean, this, look, we' we've got to look at the context of this article. This person, if they even exist, this this author,
00:08:53
Speaker
They seem to write something like 30 articles a day, which makes me dubious about if there wasn't a bit of a hand of of a machine writing this article, especially with the telltale use of amdashes everywhere on every article, which is a very yeah chat GPT way of writing.
00:09:11
Speaker
But anyway, i don't want to besmirch Mr. Cooper's. cooper's reputation as an author and as a writer and his a commitment to reviewing vegan snacks and and writing about veganism. But I will say things like, for example, VegOut Magazine has among its pages an article called Five Gen X Habits that Gen Z are finally starting to appreciate.
00:09:37
Speaker
And this article has no mention whatsoever of veganism, food, plant-based diets, anything. It has nothing to do with the subject. So I will err by saying that this magazine is not written by humans and that these authors do not exist.
00:09:57
Speaker
Having said that, we should give you know consideration to the article itself. and what it says. Yeah, it's it's very nice. you know it's It's very easy to go through life and there doing this sort of self-contained veganism where you try not to rock the boat. You try not to make people angry.
00:10:12
Speaker
You try not to give an appearance that veganism is basically just you know bringing the tofu to the potluck, bringing the tofu recipe to the potluck. And when you go to somebody with somebody to a cafe, you ask for the oat milk instead of the Dairy milk, but you know there's a moral urgency associated with veganism in that animals are suffering, and their suffering is constant and ah apparently unending. Being too polite, i'm going to use the word polite, I'm not going to use the word emotionally intelligent for this.
00:10:47
Speaker
Being too polite to have this on the back of our minds and kind of bring it up in a conversation is not going to do with the animals any good whatsoever. I do agree with some points in the article. i mean, you don't have to be an activist 24-7. You know, look, if I'm invited to a company dinner or something or, you know, eating with friends who increasingly are vegan, in my case, and, you know, let's say if I'm invited to a family function and I'm the only vegan there, and I probably won't bring up the thing, you know that I'm vegan, but if they see me ordering the vegan and they ask me,
00:11:24
Speaker
Why I'm vegan, i you know they're going to hear about it. I'm not going to go, oh, I'm vegan because ah it's ah it's an interest it's a good choice to have. you know I'm not going to mince my words. I'm going to say why I'm vegan.
00:11:36
Speaker
And you know if somebody asks, oh, yeah, but what's what's wrong with with milk? you know As they fond of asking, what's wrong with eggs? Blah, blah, I'm going to tell them the truth. I'm not going to be emotionally intelligent.
00:11:49
Speaker
and you know and and and and have compassion for humans, as they as point number five says. You don't blame someone for ordering chicken nuggets when they're just trying to feed their kids after a double shift. Yes, I don't shame people for ordering chicken nuggets, but if we're having a conversation about food and they ask me, well, what's wrong with having chicken nuggets? Well, they're gonna I'm going to tell them the truth. I'm not going to have compassion for the human and treat them like a child.
00:12:17
Speaker
yeah If they're an adult and they've asked me the question, they want the truth. They don't want to have things sugarcoated just because of my supposed emotional intelligence or nuance or whatever the article writer wants to call it.
00:12:31
Speaker
and know In fact, point six is it's pretty shocking. you know You embrace nuance in a black and white world. No.
00:12:40
Speaker
No, it's pretty black and white. It's pretty black and white. And, you know, if the topic comes up, I'm not always in activist mode, but if if the topic comes up, I'm not going to embrace nuance.
00:12:51
Speaker
You would not embrace nuance in any other ethical situation, would you? You would not embrace nuance related to sexual violence or other kinds of violence or to war or to exploitation. You would not embrace nuance, would you?
00:13:07
Speaker
So why would you embrace nuance for this? it doesn't make any sense to me. I was surprised to see the picture of the author, if indeed they do exist, as as you say, Carlos.
00:13:18
Speaker
It read to me like someone in their teens who is has just kind of discovered that, oh, actually, an approach to your ethics can be to be happy, smiley and non-confrontational and and And actually, that you know maybe that shows a sort of higher level of awareness or something like that. i I don't think it's a particularly sophisticated standpoint that the article takes.
00:13:46
Speaker
I do think, as I think Paul has touched on, there are things that folk could take away from it if you've never come across the argument of like, oh, actually, sometimes it's quite good to listen and to not just butt in with your...
00:14:02
Speaker
with your opinion and just give your own monologue about things. Like that there are interesting points there, but i have to say it's so, so rare that I've met a vegan and animal rights activist who has failed to show these qualities. Do you know what I mean? I feel like it's,
00:14:20
Speaker
It's an article that's written that's almost based on the assumption that 90% of vegans are really ardent, tone-deaf, militant, aggressive, violent people.
00:14:35
Speaker
who are unable to have conversations with people um and listen and build connections. I think that's a stereotype that's
Stereotypes and Challenges of Vegan Activism
00:14:45
Speaker
out of date. I don't think it exists.
00:14:47
Speaker
And I wonder whether it's a stereotype that khanists perpetuate Because if that's the image of vegans and animal rights activists that they have and that they can hold on to, then they don't need to change their behaviour because we're all extreme and we're all crazy. So therefore, they don't have to confront things.
00:15:07
Speaker
I think the the biggest issue that I had with the article, and I will assume that it's been written by hand, which but might, of course, be nonsense. But there seems to be a thing where they're assuming that vegans...
00:15:22
Speaker
there's a narrative that vegans are feeling superior. Vegans shouldn't feel superior. Vegans shouldn't say that they're the best. Vegans shouldn't wear things as a badge of honor, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah But then the follow-up seems to be, actually, if you do things in this high emotional intelligence way, then actually you're even better.
00:15:41
Speaker
So it's kind of, it's still going for like a superiority thing. It starts off by saying, feeling superior is bad. So do things like this, and then you will actually be superior yourself. it's I think I'm definitely coming around to Carlos's point of view that it's ah it it may not be ah written by a human because i I think most humans beyond the age of about 13 would probably recognise that contradiction in their own writing. Yeah, there's there's some good points in the article, although I think the the good points are by accident because they don't tie in with the whole article.
00:16:16
Speaker
Like, for example, um point seven, don't guilt trip people to make them vegans. yeah I think we know this. i mean, there's plenty of research. And if you have experience, you know, this doesn't work.
00:16:27
Speaker
You know, you shouldn't. It says, but crucially, you don't weaponize your awareness. You don't guilt trip your friends. You don't call your grandma's roast murder. Yes, also because I'm not 14. and recently become a vegan and i go around, you know, you murder, et cetera. i mean, it's ah it's a bit of a straw man, the whole thing, the argument. Having said that, there are some London vegan activists that the other day went into, a not into, I think they just stayed on kind of the tables outside of McDonald's and just started shouting at people and showing posters and stuff and, you know, straw man, straw man, but, you know, they actually did it and they could have shown a bit more EQ in that situation.
00:17:05
Speaker
I mean, do we do we think a lack of emotional awareness is a real squeaky wheel and in the vegan movement that that does need addressing?
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, I was going to say, i think when I said earlier on that, it felt like ah it was trying to say that emotional intelligence kind of trumps your approach to veganism. I think... quite right. I think having emotional intelligence is a helpful tool to sit side by side how you promote veganism if you're going to do that. And this is really going to say I'm not going to do it. um Again, reading the room, I would say Like with the first point, yeah respect autonomy even when you disagree.
00:17:46
Speaker
Well, you know there's a thing about speaking truth to power, isn't there, but doing it tactically. And and whilst I generally don't agree that going in and doing lots of shouting works that well as a method to reach people because it they kind of put up defensive barriers and walk away.
00:18:01
Speaker
As with most change, I think, in society, it's a combination of tactics, a combination of approaches. So you might have some shouting, you might have some... other measures, other communications, other approaches and other tactics to to kind of get the overall message. It's not kind of like we're just going to do this one thing. We're not just going to leaflet drop. We're just going to stand here with placards. It's like we'll mix it up a bit to get to get all your points out there, to get all your touch points of different people with different receptors, basically.
00:18:28
Speaker
I agree with you, Paul. I think my question is actually what proportion of people are just shouting anyway? like I feel like this article and the general narrative, in in a sense, I'm less interested in this article because I think it's it's lazy and I think it's based on on um silly assumptions.
00:18:48
Speaker
But i I think there is a perception out there that vegans and animal rights activists are being really shouty and aggressive. And i I just don't know whether it's true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all.
00:19:01
Speaker
But in terms of proportions of people that are doing it like, is this a squeak on the wheel of the bicycle that we actually need to address? Because I don't i don't know that it's happening. i mean, it does happen.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, it does happen. I just told you an example of where it happened in fairly recently. I mean, one example is not. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Although, although those examples are kind of very, you know, because they're very kind of, they're very in your face. They get news coverage as well, don't they? They tend to attract the media coverage.
00:19:33
Speaker
And think that's the thing as well, is that what we see, we know other vegans and we know there's a different range of people out there doing different types of communication. Probably the general public who aren't vegan, their link to stories are probably these more pizza campaigns and stuff like that. So they've got that stereotype of that more shouty vegan.
00:19:52
Speaker
that's probably what they think. That's not what we see. I think it's too different two different lenses on it. Well, I mean, my mind goes to the that the period in the early 21st century when a relatively very, very, very small proportion of fundamentalist extremist Muslims took actions that then reflected on hundreds of millions, if not, but I don't know how many Muslims there are in the world, but like,
00:20:17
Speaker
that's not how the vast majority of Muslims were behaving or necessarily believed.
Media Influence on Vegan Perception
00:20:23
Speaker
And yet public perception, I think it's probably fair to say it wasn't a great PR time to be a follower of Islam at the early 21st century and probably still isn't in some degrees because of that tiny minority.
00:20:36
Speaker
I just don't know whether it's it's something that we We need to address because actually if it is if it is getting to a perception where the vast majority of carnists will use this as an excuse, actually it doesn't matter whether it's only a few people behaving in this way.
00:20:52
Speaker
We kind of still need it to stop if it's sullying our name. Or is it just the case that that someone doing mental gymnastics is always going to look for a reason to say, oh, yeah, but you do things like that, so I don't like you.
00:21:05
Speaker
I don't believe in your system. I don't believe in your worldview. if If we're just existing in the world, we need to exist in the world and kind of get by, you know, keep our jobs, keep our friends, keep our family, you know, whatever makes sense to us to keep on.
00:21:20
Speaker
But, ah you know, if we're doing activism, we're not out there trying to make friends with the carnists. That's one of the traps of activism actually is when, is when you know, okay, but don't upset people. Okay.
00:21:32
Speaker
But this is an upsetting message. You know, there's no way to convey this without being upsetting. And if they say, well, but cows are treated fairly. i can, you know, oh, but my meat comes from humane sources.
00:21:44
Speaker
i I cannot be, I cannot make friends with this people, with with this person by compromising on that, on that, they said, you know, if they say my meat comes from humane sources, I don't want to go, yes, you're right. Let's be friends. So I can convince you about veganism.
00:22:00
Speaker
I don't want to say they're right because that that goes against the whole my whole purpose of doing activism. So you know there's a limit to kind of this nuance or respectability or, sorry, just use the words, compassion for humans.
Compromise in Activism: How Far to Go?
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, you know if somebody says, you know my meat comes from human and sources, I'm not become going to be compassionate about shattering their worldview because I need to shatter their worldview. I cannot agree with them on something like that.
00:22:28
Speaker
I can agree, for example, that if they say, yes, but it's really hard to be vegan, I can say, yes, at first it will be very hard. I can sort of agree with that, but I cannot agree with things which violate the complete message of activism.
00:22:42
Speaker
I'm wondering with this article in particular, we're we're kind of using this as a lightning rod, I feel, for for for broader issues. I wonder whether the not all of the headlines, those nine points,
00:22:55
Speaker
but most of them feel like there's something in most of them. And we can see examples where most of just those headlines, we can't abide by that.
00:23:06
Speaker
I think for me, the difficulty is the direction that the article's then taking and saying, so therefore you should do this. I don't agree with their examples, but like knowing when to listen and when not to engage.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think that... I think there's something in that separating identity from ego yeah definitely leading by example not pressure not so sure about that one I think there's there's something to be said but do do you see what I mean like I wonder whether there's there's something in there but I think it's it's right for us to call out when things are ah kind of becoming too moderate is that is that too extreme a thing to say It's an oxymoron, isn't it? um Yeah, I think i think so. lee I think you're right.
00:23:53
Speaker
You could take this article as a starting point and rewrite it to be something much better. And you would still keep some of the some of the points, I think. But, you know, so ah looking at number six, you know, and not everyone will agree with this, I know, but it says, yeah you recognise someone reducing their meat intake is still a win.
00:24:09
Speaker
In fact, Custerian isn't a threat. It's a step. Now, I take that. I know from an abolitionist point of view, that might not sit so well. But, you know, I will speak to people and they'll say, oh, I've started to do that. And I'll say, that's great.
00:24:21
Speaker
um You know, are you looking further than that? What's your goal? And he's asking them. No, I'm not going, you should go further. It's like, you is that all you're going to do? Or why have you done it? Oh, is it because I'm more interested in...
00:24:33
Speaker
animal welfare okay fine so uh are you thinking further than that are you just taking steps because that's great um and try and encourage them rather than go well that's that's nothing you know it's um which i think is but i think is dangerous and um you know i think it's quite a lot of examples of people being smacked down by their first efforts to try and move towards that which you know people like me people like you and and i know certainly that's the way we got there you You know, you should be encouraging it, but not saying you've won. That's the end of the game.
00:25:03
Speaker
You've not completed it. It's like kind of where where are you going from there and why? But find out what their motivation, you know, if it's environmental, great. You can still go a bit further. Is that your plan or you not see it past that?
00:25:13
Speaker
Maybe you just need a discussion about the environmental impact of dairy, for example, because maybe you've not really thought of it. There's still a chance to have the conversation around that. Yeah, I agree with with all this, Paul. you know we we don't have to turn people from carnage into vegans overnight or in there's quite a lot of vegan outreach on the streets that's about having people pledge to becoming vegan right there on the spot in front of a stranger i have I don't think this works because I you know if if there's one promise I can break is a promise made to a complete strangers
00:25:46
Speaker
you know, I owe them nothing in terms of keeping a promise to them. So i don't know how much that is worth. But ah we also have to think that, you know, the message that vegans carry just by their existence is a very uncomfortable message. There's a limit to how how comfortable it can be and still have an impact.
Effective Activism: Clear and Direct Approaches
00:26:04
Speaker
And that's that's something I think that is very clear from some of the activism that is currently going on with regards to the horrible stuff going on in Gaza at the moment, very often people are not apologetic at all in terms of the the message that they are giving.
00:26:25
Speaker
It is a very clear, no, no, no this this is what is happening. you know You can use terms like genocide or or whatever. This is very clear. This is not something that we can shirk away from. And actually, I think you start to see the impact of that. I'm not saying it's solving everything, but in terms of just a clear, direct message, it's not meant to be a comfortable thing to to think about or ah to focus on.
00:26:50
Speaker
And I think we have to bear in mind that as a as a community of vegans, to come back to animal rights, we've been in the mainstream now for six, seven, eight years, let's say, depending on where you live.
00:27:05
Speaker
And so those who are uncomfortable with the message have had quite a lot of time to start working out how to push back how to find ways to make us sound silly, sound extreme, wanting to tone us down and things like that.
00:27:21
Speaker
And actually, is' animal rights is in many ways quite a clear message and and kind of sticking to that clarity whilst still showing all the emotional intelligence that is, of course, valuable, I think is really important. Because if we if we water things down too much, then with we're left with nothing. We're left with AI-generated content by someone that if you look at Jordan Cooper's other articles, he says, well, actually, I do still have sushi nights. I do still have raw salmon. I do still have pasture-raised eggs occasionally because I miss the versatility and the vitamin B12. For goodness sake, like it did this this person, if they do exist, does not know what they're talking about.
00:28:03
Speaker
um And we should be wary listening to any message. I think that's because ChatGPT can't remember all the articles it's written as Jordan Cooper. So it's having a hard time, you know, kind of getting all this all all this story the story together.
00:28:18
Speaker
Look, be compassionate, be empathetic to humans, but also be truthful and, you know, use the tactics that you feel is more relevant also be aware that you need to live and you know keep your friends and not be the... you know Look, people going to say we're annoying anyway just by existing, so often you you you can maybe avoid being extra annoying sometimes when it's when you kind of need to just get by, but yes the truth is not a convenient one.
00:28:46
Speaker
In the same way that, let's say, LGBTQ rights, the activists for LGBTQ rights, they would not accept things like yeah yeah, you can be gay all you want, but just just don't do it in public. you know They would not accept this right and and You know, it is a well, but somebody against those rights would have said, well, but you're inconveniencing me. don't want to see men kiss on the street. i'm want to see women kiss on the street.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, but they didn't take that, you know, they they were not compassionate with this worldview when they were fighting for their rights. Yes, and I suppose it is it's a really good example and it reminds us that actually we are advocating on others' behalves.
Advocacy and Consistent Messaging
00:29:26
Speaker
I think it's it's kind of easier to moderate your ask if you're asking on others' behalves because your your imagination can play tricks on you for a bit or you can your your empathy can and dip a little bit. Whereas if someone is talking about you...
00:29:41
Speaker
In those terms, like the example you've just given there, Carlos, like you're you're not going to, you're not going to mince your words or reduce your ask, I suppose. I think it's interesting what you said and about the sort of Gaza campaigning. And um I think, like you say, dealing with facts.
00:29:59
Speaker
rather within than opinion or view is very important and powerful. It's a bit like when we're talking about animal rights stuff to sort of say this is the amount of animals that are killed for this. This is fact. It's not kind of like I think it's wrong that a million animals are killed. It's like a million animals are killed.
00:30:15
Speaker
You don't really have to say much more than that if going to start to have conversation with people because it's like do they just go whatever or go buy me that's not good um or you know this stuff this the eating a processed meat is likely to cause um a cancer you know these are things that you can kind of put to people you don't really have to kind of give too much shoutiness around it it's just present it as as fact and make sure you pick the right fact because that's another bugbear of mine i think with having campaigned with some vegans is they'll sometimes pull stuff out their ass that is questionable and you're like, I wouldn't, this is, this isn't really, you can't really back this up because this is something that someone has said and it's a bit like, let's, you know, let's not go down that line because we can be picked apart then and that's no, that's no good. That's no good. So deal with the facts, you know, make sure, make sure you've got evidence to back it up.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:31:04
Speaker
You know that's how you need to play it. think goodness. Interesting stuff. Thank you, Paul. And thank you, Carlos, for your interpretation and response to to that article in there and the issues contained within.
00:31:16
Speaker
Listeners, you may have followed the link and given it a quick scan through. I will say, don't take the 90-second quiz to find out what type of vegan you are, because that's even more tosh than the article was in itself. I thought, oh, I'll do this quiz. I'll ask Carlos and Paul what what outcome they got to. no, no, no, no. It's a load of old rubbish. But anyway, you might have looked at that. You might have taken issue with something you've said that we've said, or you might even be Jordan Cooper.
00:31:43
Speaker
Anyway, whoever you are, if you've got something that you want to share with us about this or anything else, here is how to get in touch. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
00:31:59
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:32:10
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Thank you again, Carlos and Paul. And thank you again, everyone, for listening. If you enjoy what we do, and know we say every single episode, but you can like us, you can review us, you can share us, and even just a little quick email saying, hi, love the show.
00:32:31
Speaker
It goes a long, long way. So anything you can do to that end would be very much appreciated. Yes. And we've got the next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out on Monday, 29th September.
00:32:45
Speaker
which will feature me, Ant, and Kate. That will be a Vegan Week episode, which is our usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Carlos and Anthony for your contributions. so Thanks again for everyone listening.
00:33:04
Speaker
I've been Paul, and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:33:14
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:33:29
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:33:55
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world week.
00:34:19
Speaker
week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from