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Summer Series: The Adventure of Letting Go
29 Plays6 days ago
Summer scaries - this week On The Ground. Sandy Inkster, Sam Ennest-Wallis, and Kelly Armstrong explore the emotional journey of giving children the freedom to explore and grow. We get into the critical difference between a genuine safety issue and a parent’s own feeling of discomfort or anxiety. We also discuss how to help children overcome fears, like spiders.
In This Episode
- [03:10] The angst of letting kids have unsupervised adventures!
- [05:47] A safety issue or our own discomfort?
- [07:04] The importance of risky play and not projecting fears onto children
- [09:31] Helping children get through fears
- [11:47] "I'm too itchy": the value of being prepared.
- [13:45] Learning resilience from a frightening experience on a canoe trip.
- [15:04] Takeaways: Validating feelings and doing our own emotional work.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Today's episode of On the Ground Parenting is made possible by the generous donations of our listeners. To learn more, look in the show notes or listen to the end of the episode.
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome back to On the Ground Parenting, a podcast by parents who are on the ground parenting, who also happen to be parenting educators from Muskoka Family Focus.
Reflections on Podcast Journey
00:00:44
Speaker
And this podcast is for parents, parents or maybe people who are not parents, but those of you who are giving care, providing care, parenting every day.
00:00:55
Speaker
So we're looking at how can we be the most effective and loving parent we can be? And do you know what? This is four weeks now that we've been offering this podcast on the ground parenting.
00:01:07
Speaker
And I'm curious about maybe the perspective that we have, those of us who have been offering this, wondering what it's been like for my colleagues. So since we're having so much weather out there, maybe using the weather as a metaphor, maybe Sam, what's it been like for you? Sunny, stormy?
00:01:28
Speaker
Tell me about this experience you've been having offering this podcast. I think this podcast has really been, it has to be sunny. Like it's just been so fun. And i when I listen to the episodes, I'm learning something new from my colleagues all the time. um Like every time I listen to the episode, I think, oh, I didn't make note of that. I should have paid really more attention to this conversation. So ah definitely sunny skies for me. It's been such a fun and really a cup filling project for me.
Engaging Listeners and Expanding Audience
00:01:59
Speaker
Thanks, Sam. How about you, Kelly? I think Sam put it well with the the sunniness. I was just actually thinking how much I love that as the intro goes on, we all dance. I know folks in listener land can't hear us, but we're always dancing. And so it also makes me think a little bit about dancing in the rain. And given that Muskoka hasn't had a lot of rain this summer, maybe we're dancing for rain too. Yeah.
00:02:23
Speaker
That's your right. Could be. And for me, I think we've had a little bit of everything. There have been those times when we've been recording and it's been like a windstorm has come through, like sort of taking us a little astray. There have been other times when everything has just been so in sync.
00:02:40
Speaker
It's been like that maybe a perfect sunny day, perfect temperature, everything. So I'm very delighted to say that I like every little bit of weather we've been experiencing throughout this. And it's been a fantastic journey.
00:02:54
Speaker
So thanks to everyone for listening. If this is the first time that you've been listening, go back. Remember, we have three previous episodes you have yet to listen to Also, please share this. ah Forward it to your friends, family members, colleagues.
00:03:10
Speaker
Invite everyone to follow. We know we have listeners around the world.
Encouraging Children's Outdoor Independence
00:03:16
Speaker
So let's jump into our topic for this week. I'm not sure if any of you have experienced anything like um turning it over to your kids outside and that emotional sort of angst of letting it all unfold. And so for my son and some buddies, they decided that they were going to do their own little canoe camping trip and
00:03:41
Speaker
I, we live here on the Muskoka river and so they paddled down to some crown land and they spent the night and, you know, it was one of those things where, you know how much I wanted to paddle down after them and I wanted to see exactly where they were and, and,
00:03:56
Speaker
and And I really held back from questioning them about the food and, you know, how they were going to cook their food and all of those kinds of things. You know, for me, it's very important and valuable that my children have that ease and that comfort with being outside and that time of turning it over you letting everything unfold the way that it will unfold, sort of believing that you've given them the skills and the training so that they've got something to fall back on.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. what What's it been like for you in those situations? Well, I think, Sandy, if you were a parent having this conversation with me and and sort of asking, are my kids ready to do this little canoe trip down the Muskoka River?
00:04:44
Speaker
i think I would bring it back to what skills do your kids have? You know, are you confident? that they'll be responsible and wear their PFD and have some paddling skills.
00:04:54
Speaker
Have they set up a tent before? How do they plan to cook the food? And these are the conversations I would also have with my own kids. I can't remember which parenting expert used to say, I think it was Barbara Coloroso, used to say, like, convince me.
00:05:07
Speaker
And so sometimes I would say to my kids, you want to go on camping trip? Convince me. And if they had the set of skills, then I feel like I need to let them go. and i And I can feel that kind of angst. I feel it as you're saying it. I feel it in my ah own heart where part of me wants my kids to have these adventures and the other part of me would like to put them under glass so that they're always pristine and delightful, but they don't grow their capabilities under glass.
00:05:36
Speaker
They grow their fears and anxieties. And, you know, I think we have to let our kids have adventures where they might skin their knee, where they might get scared.
00:05:47
Speaker
There's a difference between a safety issue and a discomfort or growing edge issue. And that's up to every parent to navigate.
Managing Parental and Children's Fears
00:05:57
Speaker
But it's worth having maybe even a good friend to check in. Is this a safety issue of not letting my kids go? Or is this I am uncomfortable and I need to manage my own discomfort? That's sort of what bubbles up to mind.
00:06:09
Speaker
And I think that same applies to every situation when you're trying to allow your children the freedom to explore. And outdoors, I mean, there's lots of wonderful things to do outside, but there's also hazards.
00:06:22
Speaker
And for me, it was difficult when my kiddos were younger to not constantly be worrying about whether they were going to fall and hurt themselves or to, um oh be careful. Oh, don't do that.
00:06:33
Speaker
So it was a lot of retraining for me to remember to maybe prompt them to ensure that they were making sure that they were putting their foot in a safe place. So planning ahead. where What's your plan? Where are you going to put your foot? What's your plan? How are you going to get down?
00:06:47
Speaker
um Do you have a plan for getting up there? Just to make sure that I was taking a step back and not forcing them to not do things because I was worried that it might not go well. So that was a big learning curve and a lot of growth for me when my kids were younger.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, i it hits on the whole risky play. I know that was ah quite a movement the past few years to help adults understand that children need to have risky play. And also then, as you mentioned, Sam, seeing the responsibility um and and how it's important for me to be aware of maybe my own worries or concerns. and And I think even noticing when I'm projecting. So i was listening to someone talk about, um I think this was Martha Beck talking about anxiety and how ah my own experience, how I can project maybe if I had a bad experience with, um you know, something like a spider or a snake, I'll just pick something that most people will see.
00:07:55
Speaker
speak about having a discomfort with, but that my experience, then I project onto my children so that they maybe didn't have an experience that was, you know, concerning for them.
00:08:08
Speaker
It's my experience that they are embracing as their own. And so these are some very valuable things for us to be able to discern and to notice. And for me, i'll just say, I need to work on that with myself. So even when my children are out doing something or my grandchildren, as my daughter reminded me when I went, oh,
00:08:29
Speaker
And she said, mom, it would probably be best if you could wrap that up a little bit, you know, maybe not let that come out so much. And, and, and so many other things too, like someone is just, ah you know, had mentioned recently about not only our, our own ah challenges that we have wanting to make sure that our children have unique experiences of their own that haven't been influenced by me in a negative way, but but even noticing their own comfort level or discomfort.
00:08:58
Speaker
So when they're going outside and maybe and they've heard too much about the outcome of things like being bitten by a mosquito and how you could get certain sicknesses or just the sudden movement might trigger fear in them. So have you ever experienced children who are more hesitant or less receptive to being outside. We might be enthusiastic, but for them, it's not such a pleasant experience. And how do you get through that with them?
00:09:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's a tricky one for sure, because there certainly are a lot of things that people maybe are fearful of. um But I think a lot of support and encouragement and opportunities to maybe explore those fears in a safe way.
00:09:44
Speaker
So I speak from experience because I am terribly afraid of snakes. I logically know that where I live, the chances of coming across a snake that is dangerous to me is very minimal.
00:09:56
Speaker
But I was so worried that my fear of snakes was going to be projected onto my children that I really kept it under wraps. Like they really, they never knew that I was afraid of snakes until I was, they were old enough for me to be able to say, you know what, there's a snake over there. And I think that snakes are great and wonderful.
00:10:17
Speaker
But they startle me. When they move suddenly, they startle me. So can you please go shoo it away? Or I'm going to walk over here instead if you want to go look at it. But it was um it was really important for me that they not have that fear.
00:10:30
Speaker
So I try to encourage my kiddos to look at things as logically as possible so that they can break it down, so that they can understand if there's a fear where it might be coming from.
00:10:42
Speaker
So totally different kids, right? Like our kids are all different. My youngest is more prone to being cautiously fearful of things, but he also has the most logical mind that I have ever met in my entire life, I'm pretty sure.
00:10:55
Speaker
So he was afraid of um spiders and he would occasionally have a spider in his room. And he would call out to me in a panic to come and get the spider and take it outside or whatever the plan was going to be.
00:11:07
Speaker
So he did a lot of research about spiders. And this year, there was a spider in his room. And he's like, it's over my bed. And i can't catch it because it's just a little too big and fast. Can you come and help me?
00:11:18
Speaker
So I went and I caught it in a cup. And I have it in this little cup. And I'm taking it outside to let it go. And he said, you know, that you might as well just squish it. Because if you're going to take it outside, you're changing its whole environment and it's probably going to die anyways.
00:11:32
Speaker
Like, I'm really happy you did all this research about the spider, but I'm letting
Lessons from Camping Experiences
00:11:37
Speaker
it go anyways. But it just was this whole, like a totally different experience than a few years ago when he was this panic-stricken kid asking for help with the spider in his room. So...
00:11:47
Speaker
Oh, I love that adaptability and seeing him like change his mindset. When we were talking about this podcast with my kids and talking about stories of when things go wrong, one of them reminded me of what we still refer to her as her, I'm too itchy camping trip.
00:12:03
Speaker
So it's we're way in the middle of Algonquin Park. We went to the Acre camping site, which is way around by Petawawa. So we're well in there. We've had a great day. It's bedtime today.
00:12:15
Speaker
My kiddos are overtired, and one of them in particular is easily overstimulated and is covered in bug bites and just starts melting down.
00:12:25
Speaker
Since then, we have never, ever forgotten the Benadryl. We now always have that antihistamine. But it has also generated a bunch of conversations on being prepared.
00:12:38
Speaker
This kid, she's now working at a camp counselor and she flat out said, I don't know why I'm a camp counselor. I hate the bugs. I don't like being hot. I don't like being in the sun. I don't like being this. But there's still something that's calling to her about that space. And we've worked on, you know, how do you be prepared?
00:12:55
Speaker
I'm a big fan of giving all people as much choice as we can. So asking kids, this is what kind of clothing might help you avoid the bugs. Which ones do you want to pick out? We often go thrift store shopping for clothes.
00:13:07
Speaker
It's not that we spend a lot of money on it, but linen is a really nice light one. You can sometimes get at thrift stores. Ankles that are tight, cuffs that are tight. There's ways to explore outside and protect yourself or address the concerns that kids are coming up with. And again, involving them in choice ah about how we're going to respond to the bugs.
00:13:30
Speaker
But depending on the age, maybe not involving them in the choice of whether or not we're going to go outside. Yeah, I think that that that's an important part is that helping them get over that hurdle, that, that fear.
00:13:45
Speaker
We were camping on an Island and in the middle of the night, it was this clack, clack, clack, clack. And, ah you know, there was a lot of wonder and concern. And, and, um, one of my kids was quite frightened of this sound in the middle of the night. And, you know, when you're in a tent, you really don't know what's going to descend on you. So not a lot of sleep happened that night.
00:14:07
Speaker
And then, of course, when we discover the next day, oh, you know, all the heron nests that are there. And it was all the the blue great blue herons, ah you know, having a middle of the night chatter with the with the babies and feeding them.
00:14:20
Speaker
And that child has gone on to offer some canoe tripping for an organization within Algonquin Park and participated in ah camper that had to be airlifted out and so has managed so many circumstances, but in that moment was quite fearful. And, and so i think that getting through that somehow supporting someone. So you're, and ah and we talk about this in our parenting programs too, about validating.
00:14:48
Speaker
So we're going to validate them, but we're not going to necessarily stop something because of that emotion. And I think that that's what's really important is how we're going to partner with them through an experience that has been challenging for them.
00:15:04
Speaker
And so for this week, I'm curious, Sam, what rose up for you from this session? think what really rose up for me is the idea of validating, but also that it's a journey that we're going on together.
00:15:17
Speaker
And I know as a parent for me, one of the most wonderful things is to be able to look at my child and say, or a child, even if it isn't my child, and just say, wow, you really persevered through that situation and look what you accomplished. And whether that's taking a bug outside or trying to go outside after dark or any, even a small thing in your house, just something that they've accomplished that they may have been having a hard time with. And it just, it fills me with delight to see the look on their face when they can see that from someone else's perspective and really take the ownership and feel the pride in themselves so that they can be proud of themselves in those moments.
00:15:58
Speaker
Thanks, Sam. Kelly? Yeah, no, that's so good, Sam. The other piece that I was thinking ah about is that your story around education in some ways.
00:16:08
Speaker
A kiddo who's afraid of spiders and then learns more about them and suddenly has a wealth of knowledge and no longer has that fear. And that that tension of like validating their feelings, but also teaching and educating and how that can shift kids' perspectives. I think that's that's my little sprout up for today.
00:16:27
Speaker
Thanks, Kelly.
Avoiding Parental Fear Projection
00:16:29
Speaker
Something that arose for me out of this session was the importance of the work for me to keep doing noticing um my own emotions and accepting them and also being able to work through them so that I'm not going to project them onto experiences with my children.
00:16:52
Speaker
And I want them to be able to have an experience that's free of my own emotional
Conclusion and Credits
00:16:58
Speaker
overwhelm. So it was about keep on, Sandy, doing the work yourself.
00:17:06
Speaker
Thanks for joining us this week, everyone. See you next time on On the Ground Parenting Podcast.
00:17:31
Speaker
On the Ground Parenting is a production of Muskoka Family Focus Parent Education If you enjoyed this episode and want to sponsor or support the show, or even ask a question of our hosts, visit the Central Hub at linktr.ee forward slash on the ground parenting.
00:17:47
Speaker
On the Ground Parenting is produced, engineered, and published by Red Juice Studio. To learn more, visit redjuicestudio.com forward slash nonprofits. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next Wednesday on On the Ground Parenting.