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206- Gosh, all these hunters REALLY care about the environment...
114 Plays1 month ago
Three of this week's nine stories from the vegan & animal rights 'space' feature humans across the globe using bows & arrows, guns & traps to help look after the environment. What a wonderful upsurge of community spirit by these lovely people, who are not at all fuelled by a bloodlust or any other sinister motives. Sigh. If only...
Mark, Kate & Ant are here this week to evaluate the week's news and work out where our next positive steps can be taken.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://wildbeimwild.com/en/national-council-bans-import-and-trade-of-fur-produced-through-cruelty-to-animals/
https://vegnews.com/india-trump-tariff-vegan-food-cheaper
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y56pryd0qo
https://www.yoursun.com/coastal/boatingandfishing/waterline-animal-rights-backers-look-to-get-bear-permits/article_7acc94e0-abcc-4d3e-ad61-c41088477f58.html
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/smokescreen-saturday-becomes-farcical-friday/
https://www.radiokerry.ie/news/animal-rights-campaigner-describes-calls-for-deer-bounty-in-kerry-as-populist-and-crude-451058
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/09/12/us-state-of-montana-allows-killing-of-nearly-half-of-its-wolves/
https://www.kqed.org/news/12055745/berkeley-animal-activist-faces-prison-in-sonoma-chicken-theft-case
https://vegconomist.com/approvals/solar-foods-gras-notification-solein-air-based-protein-aiming-fda-no-questions-letter/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Kate, Mark & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan Week
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, if you are looking for vegan or animal rights news, look no further, you're in the right place. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode of Vegan Week, I'm Mark and Kate, but that is enough of the falafel, it is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:15
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butt is used for. Brrr! Take your flat brown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in state of Florida.
00:00:27
Speaker
What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me. Hang on a minute. You always pick the
00:00:42
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another that's just what people think vegans eat anyway as long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:00:58
Speaker
i cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision hello everyone you are listening to morgue welcome to the show and thank you for being here Hi everybody, it's Kate here.
00:01:09
Speaker
This is our vegan and animal rights news show. Thank you for joining us. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:21
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:33
Speaker
Okay,
Global Vegan and Animal Rights News
00:01:34
Speaker
we do like to keep our show pretty international, and we've almost managed six different countries for our first six stories. Not quite, but our first one comes to us from Switzerland. It comes to us from a news source that we mentioned a couple of weeks ago, Wild Bime Wild, which Translates as let wild things be wild.
00:01:52
Speaker
It's cited as a good news piece. and don't know about you, Kate. Kate's had a look through this one. It was at a bit of a confusing read, but it helpfully comes under the banner of good news. So we can we can directly infer there what we want to. the
Switzerland's Fur Import Ban: What Defines 'Cruel Conditions'?
00:02:07
Speaker
national council of switzerland has banned the import and trade of fur produced through animal cruelty now that's a term that we need to get into but basically an overwhelming one hundred and eighty three votes to nine wouldn't you like to meet those nine people
00:02:23
Speaker
ah the parliament, proved amendments to this Animal Welfare Act that's been thrashed out, that prohibits the import and trade of fur produced under, quote, cruel conditions.
00:02:35
Speaker
There are various exceptions and and ways that... that It seemed to me, Kate, that they were sort of erring about having a system where there could be lots of bureaucracy and lots of analysing like, well, is this allowed?
00:02:48
Speaker
Is this not allowed? It looks a bit more black and white, but we've still got this confusing or troubling, quote, cruel conditions or, quote, animal cruelty that's sort of saying it's fine so long as it doesn't fall under did that. was Was that the biggest thing that jumped out for you as a problem for this one?
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's great news that clearly so many people in Switzerland find fur distasteful. But yeah, that that kind of did jump out at me because it also reminded me of a story that we covered earlier on in the year about animal product imports, if you remember that one.
00:03:27
Speaker
into Switzerland and um the fact that they will have to be labelled as if the animals have gone through painful procedures. And I thought, well, maybe that will make people think that actually it's all fine, all the other stuff's fine because the other animals have been treated well.
00:03:43
Speaker
And I just wonder if this will make some people, not all people, but some people assume that the fur sold in Switzerland is going to be fine. All the animals have not been treated cruelly. i mean, it's a good thing Switzerland no longer has domestic fur farms.
00:04:01
Speaker
So all of their fur is imported. Well done to the Coalition of Animal Rights Groups, obviously have been campaigning hard for this.
00:04:13
Speaker
And they managed to get ah hundred over 100,000 signatures, which meant that it enforced a national vote on whether to ban. They wanted to ban for imports, I think, full stop of mistreated animals.
00:04:28
Speaker
But for various, it would be in contravene of their... Swiss constitution or something that I don't really understand and Swiss people will understand. Instead, it's coming under the existing Animal Welfare Act.
00:04:43
Speaker
The onus will be on retailers and people dealing with fur. that they have to prove that there was no suffering or pain or injury involved. And I think we all as vegans know that that's an impossible task anyway. So when it comes to animals for fur, because, you know, even the ones that are farmed, just, you know, they're in horrible cages and all the rest and trapping in the wild is inherently cruel. So i don't know. i i i don't know what you guys think. It's definitely a step in the right direction and it proves people do care. And maybe there's people, there are less people thinking it's okay to wear it.
00:05:25
Speaker
What do you think? Well, i think it's just a good measure of where a certain society is at, specifically Swiss society with with regards to its politicians, at least. You've got someone who's not attached to an animal welfare party or anything else.
00:05:39
Speaker
Like that saying in parliament, how can one subject these animals to immeasurable suffering just to wear their skin as a tasteless, ostentatious fashion mistake is beyond me. for for For me, that paired with the overwhelming vote, 183 to 9, they're the main takeaways.
00:05:57
Speaker
The rest is kind of bureaucracy. And if you've got no fur farms in the country anyway,
Florida's Bear Hunting Permit Controversy
00:06:02
Speaker
then I don't think the impact is huge. It's more just a statement of like, Yeah, these things are are not okay. And obviously, we hope the needle nudges more to to to encompass more animals, because obviously, ah Switzerland, like every country in the world, will still be exploiting many, many animals for for fun, for fashion, for food. So...
00:06:23
Speaker
All the Fs apparently, but yes. Thank you for that one, Kate. um The next one is ah possibly my favourite story of the week. Mark's had a look at this one too. comes from the interesting Waterline edition. I've not quite understood what the focus of the publication is. It seems like it's to do with leisure pursuits in the USA, but this comes to us from Florida. The headline is, animal rights backers look to get bear permits.
00:06:51
Speaker
And you're reading that headline thinking, what on earth? Why would animal rights activists want bear permits? And the long and short of it seems to be, there is the possibility of hunting bears in Tallahassee, but there is a limit to how many bear permits you can get, 187 permits.
00:07:10
Speaker
Each permit permits you to kill one bear. So animal rights activists have said, well, we'll have some of those and we'll just not use our permit. What do you think, Mark? is that It sounds like an absolutely ingenious idea. I didn't see a flaw, but perhaps you spotted something I didn't.
00:07:26
Speaker
It actually reminds me of a similar campaign that was done when the the Pope went to visit Ireland for the first time in many years, about five or six years ago, when the child abuse scandals were still very hot and they still are very hot.
00:07:40
Speaker
And there was only a certain amount of space there for the... for the audience. So do there was there was a campaign going to try and get people to apply for permits in a lottery style again, and then not go, and then and therefore to deny some someone else who wants to be there the chance to be there.
00:07:57
Speaker
The ah first time that the Pope came to Ireland was in the nineteen early 1980s, and one quarter of the population, including my parents, went out to see him one quarter at one event. There was almost a million people at one event to see the Pope.
00:08:11
Speaker
so So when he came back, I think it was in 2015, there was about 100,000 or so. So there's a real drug drop off in numbers for for lots of reasons. but So it's it's a tactic that's been used before. I think it's quite clever.
00:08:24
Speaker
There is a get-out clause that the state have in that if if there isn't enough spare deaths a during the hunt, then they will increase the amount of permits. So there There is a way of getting around their tactic.
00:08:37
Speaker
there There is a photograph in this in this article of the of the crowd of people at the meeting around this. And all the pro bear killers are wearing orange T-shirts. And all the animal welfare people are wearing black T-shirts. And there's two animal welfare, there's two people in in black T-shirts in a sea of an orange mob. And it must have been quite intimidating.
00:08:57
Speaker
I think it's a very clever tactic. It's a way of using the system against itself. Obviously, and the system can get around that next time, but it does highlight the the issue. I think it's it's amazing ah more broadly that the hunting lobby have fallen back on the poor excuse of doing this for conservation reasons and not because they just think it's fun.
00:09:21
Speaker
Back in the day, they didn't have to have any excuses and and they said they were doing this as a sport for fun they've run out of excuses now and now they're using our excuses in or in order to continue doing this so the the the the ground has shifted enormously it's only a matter of time when we have more humane methods in cohabiting this planet with other big fierce creatures ah rather than the knee-jerk reaction of killing them i know that all those people in the orange t-shirts if if they were
00:09:52
Speaker
offered the chance to do something that didn't involve killing an animal, but did involve caring for the animal, they wouldn't be anywhere inside. You wouldn't see them for dust. They're only doing this because they like shooting animals, but they pretend that it's all to do with conservation.
00:10:06
Speaker
This is the only bit of conservation, I'm using air quotes here, that they will ever engage in because all they're interested in is guns and firearms and the whole macho end of things. they never do anything else that is actually a conservationist model. they they they they've They've no interest in that. But they've as I say, they've run out of excuses.
00:10:24
Speaker
So now they're borrowing our excuses to try and blind the public and to to continue doing what they're doing. So it's a step in the right direction, but it isn't the final say yet.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah. And as you say, there's a very good chance that that there'll just be a different system next year. But I Nonetheless, you know, doff my cap to the animal rights activists of Florida who are doing their bit unswayed by Kate's intro to every Vegan Week episode where she's doing her very best Florida accent, imitating the governor of Florida, I seem to remember. Was that you, Kate? I didn't know who that was. You thought it was a genuine name. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
00:11:05
Speaker
Everyone, I'm sorry. Good for them. Good for them. And unfortunately, not the only story of people hunting for, quote, conservation this week, as we will see.
00:11:17
Speaker
Let's jet across to India. Now this comes to us from VegNews. Very clickbaity headline. India just hit back at Trump's 50% tariff and made vegan food cheaper. You can see how they're trying to get the clicks there. It certainly drew my attention.
00:11:34
Speaker
Interesting one, this one, India have cut taxes on a range of products, apparently in a bid to boost consumption across the country and according to some analysts, helped to offset the impact of the new US tariffs, which um have just been approved as 50% tariffs on India coming into a effect at the end of August.
India's Tax Reduction on Plant-Based Foods
00:11:56
Speaker
So, What's this got to do with vegans? What's this got to do with plant-based eating? Well, soy milk, which used to be taxed at 12%, now taxed at five. All other plant-based milk beverages previously taxed at 18%, also reduced down to five.
00:12:12
Speaker
Lots of other things have been cut down to the 5% tax rate. tax rate including nuts, avocados, dates, figs, pineapples, citrus fruits, cereals, mushrooms, truffles, fruit, jellies, juices, and soy chunks.
00:12:25
Speaker
What a buffet that is. There is a bit of a catch to this article, but like let's get Kate's initial take on this. It's got to be good that plant-based foods are being made cheaper.
00:12:37
Speaker
Massive country, over a billion people, and people are always saying that vegan food's is expensive. So it's got to be a positive, hasn't it, Kate? On the face of it, yes. But it's not just vegan foods, unfortunately, that are. There are other foods as well, which are also going to, you know, animal-based foods that are also actually become tax-exempt even. I think, is it paneer or something? It's going to, no tax whatsoever And I did, it did make me wonder just how affordable plant-based foods are in India, actually. ah
00:13:14
Speaker
So i did I did have a little look and I found, so apologies to any of our Indian listeners if I'm completely wrong on this. Please write in and tell me.
00:13:26
Speaker
But roughly, average pay for rural workers in India is about 200 to 400 rupees a day, is about £1.70 £3.40 per day. And people, it's about £8.50, which is about 1,000 rupees, or in US dollars, it's about 12 dollars. and city people it's about eight pound fifty which is about a thousand rupees or in us dollars it's about twelve us dollars So we take a lot of plant-based ready-made options for for granted here.
00:13:53
Speaker
But in India, they're actually really expensive. So a litre of, say, calf's milk is about 50 to 70 rupees, which for...
00:14:03
Speaker
um so a rural person might still be like a quarter of their daily wage. But soya milk is about between 90 and 120 rupees, which is over half the daily wage for some people.
00:14:17
Speaker
But actually, they they do mention in this article, don't they, about plant-based milk sales, that they're hoping that they're actually going to increase because a lot of people in India are About 60 to 80% actually of adults are lactose intolerant compared to Northern Europe where it's about 5 to 20% of people are lactose intolerant. But you could argue that all adults should be, are kind of lactose intolerant really anyway.
00:14:44
Speaker
Paneer, that's about, for a kilo, it's about 250 to 300 rupees. Tofu is half the price, which is interesting. Vegan cheese is 15 times the price of tofu though.
00:14:58
Speaker
and which is a lot, isn't it? Chicken for a meal, for someone who wants to eat dead chicken, is about 100 rupees per meal, which is about 84 pence in UK money.
00:15:09
Speaker
But lentils, lovely, lovely lentils, are about seven to eight rupees per meal, which is about 6p in UK money. So India has some of the most amazing, amazing food, doesn't it? Some of the traditional and regional dishes based all around beans and lentils.
00:15:30
Speaker
And they're not only the cheapest, they're like the healthiest foods on the planet. I did wonder as well, because McDonald's is quite prevalent, like everywhere, American fast food chain.
00:15:42
Speaker
And I was wondering, you know, um are they getting targeted as well? Are they suffering with some of Trump's tax things, tariffs? And yes, apparently they are. And not only that, there's quite a few people in India who are calling for a boycott on them.
00:16:00
Speaker
Any reason for a boycott of McDonald's is... Well, yeah, it's good. Yeah, it is. and A few interesting things about about India and its relationship to food and about McDonald's as well, Kate, as as you ever bring them up. yeah When I was there a last, the... ah It was a good few years ago. the main ah story in the paper on one of the days I was there was a youth group of the ruling party BJP had set fire to a McDonald's in Delhi because ah it was it was as suspected of frying its fries in beef tallow, which obviously as Hindus, they strongly objected to. So they went in and stormed the restaurant and burned it down.
00:16:41
Speaker
Now, India has got a really funny relationship with dairy. It's actually India is the highest level of milk production and consumption in the planet. And it really plays havoc on their health. And a fact I found out really recently, which I had to confirm because I wasn't sure if was true or not, but milk consumption inhibits the absorption of iron in the human body. It limits the bioavailability of iron.
00:17:05
Speaker
So India has the highest level of milk production. It also has one of the highest levels of iron to ah deficiency as well, which sort of proves the point. And it it could well do with moving away from dairy, which ah a lot of people for religious reasons regard as the fruit of the gods.
00:17:21
Speaker
So ah for their own health, it would be very beneficial for them to move away from dairy and onto the plant-based milks particularly. Which is why the the headline of this story is, unfortunately, I'm... i'm going to say it's misleading because really the biggest change is that ghee is now not getting applied any tax to it at all. Yes, there are these plant-based foods that are going down from 12 or 18% down to five.
00:17:47
Speaker
Great. But like actually a country that consumes an awful lot of dairy, sorry, it was paneer, wasn't it? Not ghee. Paneer, the cheese is... that comes from an animal is even exempt, even lower.
00:18:01
Speaker
But there we are, an interesting one to dissect nonetheless. Let's come over to good old Blighty. We've not had a British-based story yet. This comes to us from the Hunt Saboteurs Association.
00:18:12
Speaker
They have ah released a rather tongue-in-cheek article saying how delighted they are that it is National Trail Hunting Day coming up on Friday the 10th of October.
00:18:23
Speaker
This,
National Trail Hunting Day Criticism
00:18:24
Speaker
listeners may be aware, we've covered it on the show probably last year, is a day when there's ah a whole lot of paraphernalia showing how wonderful and civilised trail hunting is.
00:18:35
Speaker
Not a fox in sight, it's not cruel, look how brilliant it is, and which has earned it the name Smokescreen Saturday when it has been done before on a Saturday.
00:18:46
Speaker
However, it's been moved to a Friday, so the Hunt Sabs have come up with an excellent name, which is Farcicle Friday. And there's an interesting reason as to why it has been moved to a Friday, which seems to be that when it was on a Saturday last year and ah presumably in previous years, there was a bit of backlash from hunters who didn't like the fact that they were missing out on a proper day's hunting because they had to pretend for a day.
00:19:12
Speaker
So now the National Trail Hunting Day has been moved to a Friday so that the following day, less than 24 hours later, they can go out and do it properly when no one is watching. Mark, great that this is being publicized and we can expect a big lot of noise and presence from Hunt Saboteurs at this show event.
00:19:31
Speaker
ah Indeed, yeah. So ah trail hunting, for the ah for the people that don't know out there, trail hunting or drag hunting, as it's also called, it's actually something that that we as Hunt Saboteurs, when I was back in in the UK and active in that movement, we stressed the ah the need to push towards an alternative like drag hunting or trail hunting as opposed to live animal hunting.
00:19:52
Speaker
as As things have transpired, trail hunting is too easy to use as an excuse for actual hunting. And what trail hunting is, is when you get, ah usually a farm labourer would tie a fox scented rag around both legs of a pair of a pair of trousers.
00:20:12
Speaker
and then run through given area of countryside, spreading that scent randomly as he goes along, and reach an end point after a couple of miles. And then the ah then the hunt is on for the hounds to try and find the scent, which is how they hunt anyway. But at the end of the scent, there isn't any animal, there's just ah a farm laborer standing in a stupid pair of trousers.
00:20:34
Speaker
So it was something that we emphasized and as an alternative. I do remember us once getting onto the ITN news ah as the children hunt sabs because we dressed up in drag and ah mark and marched out onto a field with with the with the massive banner saying, time to turn to drag. And we were all in drag and banners saying stuff like, hunting makes us cross-dress and all the rest of it.
00:20:58
Speaker
And it was really good fun. And they hate drag hunting, trail hunting, because there isn't any kill at the end of it. And if you ever wanted proof as to the motives behind their hunting, it is to kill an animal because when when they can go trail hunting, they they hate doing it. They will do anything other than trail hunting. They will pretend they're they're going out trail hunting.
00:21:17
Speaker
And then as soon as the as soon as a quarry is spotted or or or smelled, then the hunt is on. And what the Huntsabs do a lot these days it is try and monitor and get evidence of the hunts hunting after a real animal and not just just the scent, and then they can bring a prosecution against them.
00:21:34
Speaker
I do hear that Scotland has closed, or is closing the trail hunting loophole. There was ah an online conference between a load of Master of Foxhounds about five or six years ago that the Hunt Sabs got a leak of, and it was them discussing how trail hunting can be used as a smokescreen for actual hunting. And it led to the ah hunts being banned from loads of land around the country because it was finally exposed that they were just an organized criminal group who were using the law to break the law, if you like.
00:22:05
Speaker
So, yeah, it would be interesting. I really like the Hunsab's take on this, that it's a massive waste of money and time on their behalf because no one believes them anymore. So um that they're they're encouraging to do that as a way of drying up their funds by going out and doing their trail hunting Friday or whatever it's called.
00:22:23
Speaker
and So no doubt the SABS will be up the next day on the Saturday monitoring them for breaking the law as they pretend to trail hunt, but actually live quarry hunt. So watch this space. Absolutely. And like you say, there's a nice...
00:22:37
Speaker
Nice tone to a lot of what the Huntsabs put out in there in their press. Certainly not balanced, but there's there's a time and a place for balance, isn't there? let's try Let's try and keep balanced on our podcast. We are moving on to a story from the BBC.
00:22:53
Speaker
We covered in episode 189 myself and... Carlos, Kate were you on it too when we were looking at different types of custodial sentencing and things like that on different bits of breaking the law to do with animals? You're nodding your head. Yes I did, they gave me brain ache yes.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Lots of detail, lots of legal ease in there. This one is interesting because we've got illegal dog breeders from Reading, just outside London in England.
Illegal Dog Breeding Case in Reading
00:23:23
Speaker
A man and a woman have been given 22 weeks in prison after pleading guilty to unlicensed dog breeding and animal cruelty. They're also going, well, it's a suspended sentence.
00:23:34
Speaker
So they basically don't need to go to prison. They do definitely need to do 100 hours of unpaid work. work And for those unaware of the sort of legal system and how these things Basically, if they do anything else naughty, then they would go to prison. They ran an illegal business breeding and selling dogs in Banbury.
00:23:52
Speaker
They were fined just over £4,000 each, banned from keeping dogs, which is something we discussed in that episode 189, where a lot of people who had animal cruelty charges against them weren't actually banned from keeping animals, which is seems ridiculous.
00:24:07
Speaker
But they have been. They sold at least 116 puppies illegally,
00:24:13
Speaker
between the start of 2019 and the middle of 2024. Sensitivity warning coming up. In one instance, a Doberman in their care went into labour. They didn't seek vet support for more than 12 hours.
00:24:25
Speaker
ah This resulted in one puppy being stillborn and unnecessary suffering to another. Kate, stories like this, they get unanimously decried by anyone reading it. There's There's no comment saying, oh, don't be too harsh. you know, they're not that bad. Do we think there is a place for stories like this in our advocacy to kind of point out, look, people are doing this badly?
00:24:49
Speaker
Or does that then give us the impression that, well, there's a good way to breed puppies? Like, what's your take it? Well, personally, I don't think there's a good way to breed puppies, full stop. I don't think we should be breeding puppies at all. We've got plenty of dogs in shelters.
00:25:05
Speaker
And no I do wonder, how much were they selling these puppies for? Because even, was it £4,154 each? Doberman puppy sell for on um on a market. i I suspect they got an awful lot more money than that.
00:25:22
Speaker
And hopefully some of those puppies went on to have happy lives afterwards. People do care about dogs, don't they? They really do. unlicensed breeders, yes, clearly they're a problem.
00:25:35
Speaker
but so I think our licensed breeders and people that breed purebred dogs are with all their issues I mean they they breed closely related dogs together which is horrible and they got all sorts of health issues because of that as well so they should be banned too in my opinion dogs clearly they've suffered horribly and that's awful But I still, you know, i don't know I can't help immediately thinking of all the other animals that people don't seem to care so much about, you know, that are suffering horribly, that give birth without a vet there to look after them, where their offspring die or you horribly mutilated or something and, you know, and all the rest of it.
00:26:22
Speaker
And they don't get to go and live happy lives after either, do they? like some of these puppies hopefully have we hope they have yeah quite quite so uh great that there's been a ah public sharing of of the fact that this isn't okay and i say this a lot but we can only hope it contributes to the needle being pushed more in an animal rights direction was just gonna say i'm really sorry but i am aware that i'm putting a downer on every single thing Every single story. I just, I deliberately give you all the miserable stories, Kate, just because I think your cheery voice helps bring some sunshine to it in some perverse way.
00:27:02
Speaker
One quick story then before we hear Kate and Mark's pick of the week. I really like this one because we we say a lot on the show that actually sometimes we can feel a bit helpless, but actually there's stories out there of people doing real grassroots activism one person sometimes just doing something, making a difference.
00:27:21
Speaker
That is the case here.
Debate on Ireland's Wild Deer Bounty
00:27:23
Speaker
This comes to us from Radio Kerry in Ireland. It's not a person called Kerry. It's from Ireland. The headline, Animal Rights Campaigner, describes calls for deer bounty in Kerry as populist and crude.
00:27:37
Speaker
And basically, it's a story, very, very short one, but it's it's made the made the press and it's been circulated. a person called Jerry Boland, if you follow a link within this article, it takes you to a page that he's got on Facebook called Animals Behind Closed Doors. It's got just under 700 followers.
00:27:55
Speaker
And he's basically saying there needs to be a national deer survey and more humane, more reasonable responses to the proposals made by um Minister of State Michael Healey-Ray and Deputy Michael Cahill, which are basically putting a bounty on wild deer in Ireland.
00:28:16
Speaker
um And he's responding to this and he's he's fighting back at this. He's saying, yes, there's overpopulation, but this is a crude response. It's unscientific and it's a complex situation.
00:28:28
Speaker
We need to look at other measures. And Mark, i I don't know about you, but I i just think... good for him sticking his oar in giving some backlash because it's too easy for these we've already just discussed hunting for for fun masqueraded as hunting for conservation sometimes it's too easy to let these things be unopposed and he's got in there and he's saying no this isn't okay and regardless of what happens that that's what we need to do isn't it we need to stand up to these things yeah so i'll tell you a little bit about uh michael healy ray okay he he's uh
00:29:03
Speaker
it If you were to order ah um Donald Trump on Timu, you would get him. He's a very popular, I must say, God-fearing, homophobic Catholic whose other ideas are that the drink-driving laws are way too rigid in the country, that Ireland doesn't have a problem with alcohol, and that ah all abortion should be illegal, including in circumstances like rape.
00:29:31
Speaker
So... This guy is is to the right of the Catholic Church. He was actually, in 2016, he was attacked by a cow who was just after calving in a shed at his farm, and he had to go to hospital with the injuries. So there is some poetic justice there.
00:29:46
Speaker
What he's proposing, it is stupidly populist. It is designed to get headlines. don't think he's got he's ah going to try and see it through. The population of ah wild deer in Ireland is about 111,000. The cattle population of Ireland, who do ah way more destruction to the environment, is about 7 million. So they're matched one-to-one humans to cows.
00:30:08
Speaker
If Michael Healy Ray was serious about the conservation of the environment, which he isn't, he would be calling for a curve on the amount of cattle farms in the country, not on the amount of wild deer in the country.
00:30:19
Speaker
Now, wild deer, there are different species of wild deer. and The red deer is endemic to the country. They aren't considered pests the way other animals are. ah they they They do stop um trees from growing by eating their buds, but this isn't their fault. They are just doing what nature instinctivizes them to do.
00:30:38
Speaker
ah It's the fault of humans for cutting down all the all the trees in the india first place. the the The average amount of native tree coverage in the EU in any given country is about 10 or 11%.
00:30:51
Speaker
In Ireland, it's less than 1%. Less than 1% because it was a colony of Britain for so long and the trees were used to build ships for the Royal Navy. So the place was... that It used to be a rainforest. All of Ireland... it It was said that a squirrel could hop from tree to tree, from north to south, east to west, without ever touching the ground.
00:31:10
Speaker
There's no way it could do that now. It would end up in farm possibly owned by Michael Healy Ray and get shot. So as I say, if Michael Healy Ray or any of these people were really serious about the environment, they would be looking at the dairy industry not at the 111,000 wild deer that causing some damage, there loss.
00:31:30
Speaker
wild deer that are causing some damage but but there is a look lost Lots of ways of dealing with that without the knee-jerk reaction of just killing everything inside. And they include ah strategic fencing, the the relocation of animals, and you can introduce a contraceptive into the population. there's a thing called PZP, which you can introduce the population by filling up darts with syringes attached to them that you ah fire at the female deer, and it it makes them infertile.
00:31:59
Speaker
so So you can, which can be problematic in itself, but it beats killing them. So there are ways of... and addressing the so-called overpopulation of deer without killing the deer but of course Michael Healy Ray or the hunters wouldn't even consequence that because it doesn't involve them killing things for fun so again it's it's quite similar to the situation over in Tallahassee with the bears it's the same sort of mentality absolutely and um like i say good on anyone who's going to publicly stand up against that because there's quite a lot of nudging that needs to happen to to push back against these populist policies um that we see. But we've got to start somewhere, haven't we?
00:32:39
Speaker
Thank you for that one, Mark. Right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to hear Kate and Mark's picks of the week. They're both from the United States of America, one from California and the other from Montana.
00:32:52
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show. So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week.
00:33:20
Speaker
going to spell it all for you.
00:33:27
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:33:38
Speaker
And then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:33:45
Speaker
Okay, pick of the week time then. Mark, let's let's come to you first. You've got a story, its a really interesting story. if It's
Activism vs. Legalities: Zoe Rosenberg's Trial
00:33:53
Speaker
about an open rescue. There's legal stuff going on.
00:33:56
Speaker
And it's involving a student at the University of Berkeley in California. you want to tell us some more? Yes. So an animal rights advocate called Zoe Rosenberg has been accused of stealing four chickens from from a poultry farm in 2023 and will stand trial on Monday in Sonoma County in California, facing potentially nearly five years in prison if she is convicted.
00:34:19
Speaker
the The rescue was caught on video but by one of her Direct Action Everywhere colleagues and shared with local, i think the radio station KQED. The footage shows Rosenberg at night dressed in protective gear, examining crates of chickens on a truck bed before placing four birds carefully into a red bucket.
00:34:38
Speaker
They'd been loaded in there just like cargo, she said. They could barely stand, that they could barely turn around, they were just packed in so tightly. Months after the incident, police arrested Rosenberg on felony conspiracy and misdemeanor charges.
00:34:51
Speaker
She was taken into custody and later released on bail. At her release hearing, prosecutors argue that she posed a threat to the public somehow. And Rosenberg was ordered to wear a GPS ankle monitor, which she has worn since.
00:35:05
Speaker
She's also prohibited from possessing chickens, ducks or any type of fowl. As if she's the danger here. It's amazing. It's definitely been overwhelming, said Rosenberg, a UC Berkeley senior. There's been days when I've had to miss class to drive.
00:35:18
Speaker
to Santa Rosa and spend all day in a courtroom. So this is really interesting. Many farmers and ranchers in Sonoma County have called direct action everywhere extremists. They're very active in that area. And they said its tactics are unlawful and dangerous.
00:35:32
Speaker
Mike Weber, who co-owns a chicken farm in Petaluma, targeted by a direct action everywhere in 2018, said activists' actions go far beyond animal welfare. These arrests are actually unusual, and direct direct action has been on a winning streak of late. ah Most of its open rescues have not led to criminal charges, and two that did make it to court in 2023 resulted in acquittals from both juries. So one of the people who was arrested during a direct direct action everywhere raiding a farm, and one of the direct action everywhere leaders, Wayne Hassan.
00:36:05
Speaker
One of the people who wrote a character letter for him was a guy called Rick Pittman, who himself is a poultry producer who has farms in California and Utah. And this is what Rick says about him submitting a letter to the court in support of the people who broke into his farm.
00:36:20
Speaker
He didn't cause any property damage when he came onto the farm. This is Wayne. or any financial loss by taking one turkey that was very sick, Pittman wrote in his letter. I was very grateful that he had exposed some rough conditions on my farm so we could fix them, he added.
00:36:36
Speaker
We've learned a lot from each other by agreeing to talk instead of fight. We've made lots of improvements to animal welfare at our farms. And every year around Thanksgiving, we give some turkeys and hand them over to Wayne and direct action everywhere.
00:36:51
Speaker
as a gesture of goodwill between us as farmers and them as activists who care for animals. So these guys, these factory farmers are handing over living chickens or turkeys every year to animal rights activists who break into his farm as a gesture of thanks for pointing out the problems on the farm and things that need to be done to to remedy the farm, i.e. cloak it down, but he's not going to do that.
00:37:15
Speaker
So, um, I've got i've gone off track from your script here little bit, but a bra i I found this quote and I was fascinated by the idea of an animal rights activist who's breaking into someone's farm, getting on well with the guy whose farm he's breaking into it to the point where the farmer is supporting him in court.
00:37:34
Speaker
It's mad. And putting in a good word for him. I've just had my dinner and I'm i'm wondering whether there was something in there that's making me just kind of hallucinate. I can't quite believe what I'm hearing really.
00:37:46
Speaker
It's chris's crazy. it's It's the only time I've heard this formally where one of the opposition, even one who has is experiencing break-ins onto his farm, has sort of made friends with with these with these activists. It is beyond bizarre. And it just goes to show the maybe the impact that Direct Action Everywhere are having on these people, that they aren't just ah retreating into their bunker and saying no, no, no to everything.
00:38:14
Speaker
this guy, Rick Pittman, factory farmer, is actually on the more enlightened side, I suppose. Well, possibly. i mean, there's there's a cynic in me that thinks this is a way of diffusing a situation and and by saying, oh, actually, we you know we completely respect your point of view, we're not going to fight, then then maybe it's going to be less aggro. But yeah, ah sorry sorry for being cynical. But perhaps Perhaps it a could be a ploy to take the wind out of the sails of direct action everywhere. Perhaps. I mean, it hasn't worked, if that's the idea, because direct action where are still an ongoing concern, if you like.
00:38:51
Speaker
and It does show the difference between the when this sort of stuff happened beginning in the 1970s, it was always done by the Animal Liberation Front undercover at night, wearing balaclavas.
00:39:03
Speaker
The idea was was that no one would get caught so that they they could repeat doing this sort of action. until eventually that they were caught. Open Rescue came along as a response to the state clampdown in the UK in particular, where people sort of realized that they weren't going to get away with this probably. So they may as well make an open show of it with the intention of getting arrested and bringing it through the courts and getting all the media attention that you would get from that.
00:39:29
Speaker
So they're deliberately putting themselves on the line, knowing that they will get caught at some point because they're not even wearing face masks at all. You can see clearly who they are. They're recording their own, if you like, crime and then putting it up onto social media channels in order to challenge society at large and the courts in particular as to the legality and the fairness of the treatment of animals in these horrific institutions.
00:39:53
Speaker
So direct action has evolved from secretive at night raids to open air, open face rescue of animals.
00:40:04
Speaker
with the knowledge of arrest being built in into the tactic itself. So it exemplifies their bravery and their lack of care for their own sort of welfare because they're still there're there is that they're syll willing to do this. But I would love to sit down and listening to conversation between ah this guy, Jim Pittman and Wayne Hassang.
00:40:27
Speaker
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing Wayne's surname correctly, but Wayne is the coordinator and co-founder of Direct direct Action Everywhere and has been arrested loads of times and is a stalwart in the movement. Yeah, I've got quite conflicted feelings on this story just now.
00:40:45
Speaker
i I don't know whether I'm being patronising, but I feel like the tone is a bit mixed and I'm feeling sympathy for this student who is is studying at university, is having their life negatively impacted by having to wear this thing on their ankle, they're potentially facing jail time.
00:41:04
Speaker
But they are an adult and it it says in the article that they're a direct action everywhere organiser. know whether I'm taking that word too literally, but that they definitely know what they're doing and they know what they're opting into. And like you say, Mark, there there has to be an understanding that there's a a very good chance that you could get arrested, you could face serious consequences, not just immediately, but for the rest of your life in terms of the impact that has.
00:41:33
Speaker
But then there's also, it's it's also very brave to do, but I'm not quite sure what And with the going down, like the the picture in the article is the kind of like, oh, look at me, I'm being hard done by sort of thing. And, and you know, I've had my classes disrupted, but then also...
00:41:50
Speaker
She must have known what she was doing. I mean, the the best outcome would be that that the trial doesn't result in jail time or anything massively adverse, but there's there's a big risk that it won't.
00:42:01
Speaker
Yeah, there is. I mean, arrest or police detention is almost guaranteed, really, because they're brazenly doing this and openly and then putting the footage up online. So so they're not only committing the crime, supposedly, but they're they're advertising the fact that they've done it. So I reckon this is part of their they're playing the media and garnering attention and garnering sympathy. Yes, of course, she knew that the chances of getting caught were almost 100% and the impact that that's going to have on her. But ah I think she's well aware of that and she's also aware of
00:42:33
Speaker
what what gets readers interested, which is the the the human drama involved. So I think she's playing that up for a good cause. ah she She isn't going to get anything like five years because it's if if it's a first offense, it'll probably be a fine and a warning.
00:42:46
Speaker
But the idea of direct action everywhere is that they will keep on doing this and push the courts into ah more and more harsh sentences and expose them for what they are sort of thing. So I think this is playing the media more than ah genuine shock at what has happened. Yeah, and and actually the quote that she gives, she's saying, like, when I really put it into perspective, I know there's nothing that they could have done to me or could possibly do to me that would compare to the level of suffering that animals endure every second of their lives. So, you know, that's that's the payoff that she's um entering into. That's the punchline, yeah.
00:43:20
Speaker
It's ridiculously out of proportion though, isn't it? Four chickens and... Four sick chickens. Four sick chickens, yeah, exactly. ah forget what the phrase was, something like her being a danger to the public or something like that. I don't know it done I have no idea. I mean, clearly she's a danger to all feathered birds, which is why they've banned her from from looking after them or keeping them or anything. It's just completely nuts.
00:43:49
Speaker
And then I don't know if it was this chap Wayne or somebody else from direct action, but and one of his court hearings, I think the prosecution fought not to have evidence shown because they had all sorts of footage of what was going on in a particular factory farm. I think it was ah a pig farm.
00:44:08
Speaker
And they didn't want the jury to see it because they feared if the jury actually saw it, then they would lose. and of And I mean, that's pretty incredible, isn't it? So you have a situation in the States now where if you're if you're wandering past a parked car,
00:44:26
Speaker
with with this all its windows rolled up and it's a really hot day and there's ah a dog or a cat inside, I think you're legally obliged to rescue that animal. So you you you can break the window of of that that car causing criminal damage, but it's for the greater good because you're a rescuing an animal. So I think this is the track that direct action everywhere are going down, that they know that theyre that that they enter these farms looking for sick and ill animals.
00:44:52
Speaker
that if there were a different species in a different context, they would be obliged to protect. And why is it different for chickens that are profit-making for a farmer and pet dogs that people have a positive relationship with?
00:45:05
Speaker
So they're they're exposing the hypocrisy and the inconsistencies of law, and law hates inconsistencies. So they're trying to close that loophole by exposing the hit the hip the hypocrisy.
00:45:17
Speaker
but got I mean, these stick chickens were were not going to be and profit making animals for the farmer in a way, and they would probably just just died and overnight and then been thrown into a skip.
00:45:29
Speaker
So the idea that that this is a economically impacting the farmer or having or having any impact whatsoever. other than the psychological idea of someone coming onto to his farm, is is a complete nonsense, you know?
00:45:41
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And yeah, the the phrase argued by the prosecutor was that she was a ah threat to the public, which, ah but like you say, Mark, there letting ah a dog out of a hot car, you would be ah commended as a hero, wouldn't you? Thank you for that one, Mark. Kate, let's move on to your pick of the week, also stateside.
Montana's Wolf Population Management Debate
00:46:01
Speaker
ah Unfortunately, it's running with the theme of the show, which is ah people being allowed to get a bit gun happy with wildlife in the name of environmentalism. This one comes from Montana. Do you want to tell us some more?
00:46:14
Speaker
Yeah, so this is another horrible story in Montana because they have approved the killing of about half the wolf population, up to 558 wolves during the next season, which has started now It's completely crazy.
00:46:34
Speaker
i mean, i just it doesn't bear thinking about, but that they're they've even allowed for just over a week them to be killed by using bows and arrows or archery. And and then there will be rifle shooting and then trapping if they don't get enough wolves.
00:46:54
Speaker
ah I wonder if they if people like, is it Florida? Yeah, i just I wonder if there will be conservationists trying to bet buy some of the permits to stop people killing the wolves, but then they'll probably just go out there and kill them anyway. Yeah, it's it's really horrible.
00:47:12
Speaker
So they were previously hunted to extinction in Montana, as in and quite a few other places in America. And in 1995, they were reintroduced to Yellowstone Park from Canada, great grey wolves.
00:47:27
Speaker
And since they have lived there, breeding there, they have actually brought the ecosystem back into a thriving balance. Because one of the issues was there the deer and the elk, they would stay in one place and graze all the young trees to nothing, all the bushes, all the other plants and plants.
00:47:49
Speaker
It even meant that the rivers, the size of the rivers were eroded and they they sort of lost their sort of bendiness and became too fast for the fish to breed and things like that.
00:48:01
Speaker
And it's all been reversed. It's become a a beautiful, thriving place. And the wolves have done really well, which is great. But outside the protected national parts, there are areas of putt which are public lands, supposedly,
00:48:18
Speaker
But they have ah different allotments, they're called, have been leased out to ranchers. Apologies to American people if i if i'm I'm really getting this in a ah mess, but hey, I'm doing my best here.
00:48:30
Speaker
um And those outside lands and and various corridors which run between some of the protected parks, they are where there's a lot of wolves and grizzly bears and other predators that come into contact with cattle.
00:48:51
Speaker
There's the problem. So last year, there were only 35 cattle deaths. And there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of cattle in those areas.
00:49:04
Speaker
And the wolves, they've killed 35 cattle. They've killed a few sheep, some foals, I think, and some dogs. And there's compensation for farmers available.
00:49:14
Speaker
so it that's that The maths of that is mad, isn't it? In that almost 20 wolves get to be killed for every one cow that was killed by a wolf last year.
00:49:30
Speaker
Like what what kind of weird retribution is that? we we ah We see it so often in these cases, don't we? It's like one person is disturbed or maybe killed by a bear in the forests of Romania.
00:49:44
Speaker
So now 700 bears have to be killed. It's it's absurd. I wonder how much of it is like a kind of retribution and thing. People would never say it like that, would they?
00:49:57
Speaker
But I wonder how much of that is in there, as well as the fact that people clearly want to just do this for sport. um ah I see a solution here. I think what we could do is is relocate a bunch of wolves to Kerry and set them on Michael Ray Healy. And we could video it and put it up on social media. Yeah, it would it would it would go viral, wouldn't it? It definitely would.
00:50:19
Speaker
I really like this article, Kate. Obviously, the facts of it are not positive. but it raises things that I'd not considered before. It brings up that these these corridors that you mentioned, these are areas that the wolves were previously safe in.
00:50:38
Speaker
And if you if you think about that, it's you know somebody could say, well, we're still leaving half of the wolves. we' you know We're not killing all of them. But those those half... the ah the that remain, that 50% that remain, areas that they thought were safe are no longer safe. And you you could accuse me there, perhaps justly, of saying, well, youre you know, you're you're giving those wolves human characteristics. you know These are apex predators. they're not They're not thinking, oh, I don't feel safe in my home anymore.
00:51:08
Speaker
But the the fact is, like this is a struggling population. it's It lost its federal protection in 2021. As you say, they they were hunted to extinction in this area.
00:51:19
Speaker
like to To just completely obliterate them like this, 50% of the population just wiped out and it's it's clearly for sport isn't it that the the fact that you've literally it's almost like a sports festival it's like oh well from the 6th to the 14th of september you can do archery then from the 15th september to the 15th of march general rifle hunting and also there's trapping methods like it's it's so plainly you know done for fun isn't it yeah it's like a festival isn't yes
00:51:50
Speaker
And the next thing will be, oh, dear, the deer are out of control. We're going have to kill even more of those now. know what I mean? And, yeah, and actually, how do we what wolves think? They're highly intelligent social creatures, and this will destroy their families, you know, and their packs.
00:52:10
Speaker
And, you know, I ah ah can't remember where i heard it, but I heard um somebody saying that, you know, they'd studied a wolf pack, and they... they kind of plan together.
00:52:22
Speaker
you know, they they have this forward planning thing where they they send some of them like up a valley and the others are strategically placed. And then the others will kind of, they're working together. that they They're forward planning. They're, you know, they they they're not stupid creatures. They're highly intelligent creatures. And you know, we know from our own companion animals um how how clever they are.
00:52:48
Speaker
I don't know. It's just the whole thing is just completely horrendous. And I fear, I don't know, what it really makes me worry about as well is other rewwiding so-called rewilding projects where predators are introduced because how long is it before, you know, we've got too many of them. You know, they're attacking. And it's always attacking livestock, isn't That's what look We're always worried about, well, I'm not, you know. Well, I am. Obviously, they're animals. We don't want them hurt, but they're going to get killed anyway.
00:53:19
Speaker
But it's always rubbing up against livestock. That's where, you know, we cannot tolerate wild creatures. I would imagine that there are far more cattle killed by motorists in the state of Montana than there are by wolves. And is there a call to curb the building of roads or car use? No.
00:53:37
Speaker
What an interesting thing, Mark. I wonder. Are you trying to find out, Anthony? I'm trying. ah Unfortunately, my quick Google search says there are no recent publicly available statistics for the exact number of cattle killed by motorists in Montana.
00:53:52
Speaker
But American listeners, we know you're out there. Perhaps you can get hold of this data. i am in You've got a bit longer than me. I was doing that in a blink of an eye there. I think it's interesting that earlier in the show,
00:54:03
Speaker
we covered a story where somebody breeding dogs in not a good way, but, you know, they it wasn't a slaughterhouse, but they have been given a suspended jail sentence.
00:54:17
Speaker
Where did dogs evolve from then? what's like What's a close living ancestor to a dog? Oh, a wolf. Oh, and we're going to kill half of them because they got a bit too close to a few cattle.
00:54:28
Speaker
I think that's quite interesting, isn't it? But um I want to take heart. And the fact is, I was researching for the show. i very quickly found this article that Mark commented on from from Radio Kerry in Ireland, just because one activist...
00:54:45
Speaker
has publicly said, I don't think this is a good idea, these deer having a bounty on their head. So it is possible for us to rally against these things. We've got to be brave and stand up for for the rights of these animals and and we can start pushing back and sending the tide in in the other direction.
00:55:05
Speaker
Thank you for that one, Kate. Me and Kate and Mark, we're here to give our opinions on the news stories that we cover in the show. However, we are also very interested in the opinions that you listeners have got on these stories or anything else that has come across your radar. So do get in touch with us.
00:55:25
Speaker
Here's how to find us. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas what helps shape the show.
00:55:46
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, we've got time for one quick last story. We do like to to double back round and revisit stories that we've covered in previous weeks.
00:56:02
Speaker
This one, I think we reported on over a year ago. it
Innovative Protein from Air: Solar Foods' Solene
00:56:07
Speaker
is Julie's favourite organisation, Solar Foods. They make protein from the air.
00:56:13
Speaker
If you follow the link in the show notes, you'll see ah it looks like a crater in the moon. Someone's just left a like a footprint in some solene, which is the name of the product.
00:56:24
Speaker
ah They're based in Finland, Solar Foods. And yes, Solene is, we'll get into it a bit more, but it's it's basically protein made from air, ah which is some sort of crazy future food, but they are sending out a generally recognized as safe notification for the USA's ah FDA to basically get a ah rubber stamp that says, this product is safe, go ahead and sell it and add it to your food.
00:56:53
Speaker
and what have you, they have submitted that this last week. The dossier includes necessary documentation on the safety of the the product, and then the FDA start of a core scientific evaluation.
00:57:05
Speaker
There could be a bit of back and forth, so it's it's not going to be anything that weve we have resolved in the next week or two. However, in their letter of intent, with a leading international brand in this segment, the aim of commercialising between 500 and 1,650 tonnes per year of Solene between 2026 and 2030.
00:57:31
Speaker
It's going to be here soon, everybody. How are we feeling? Are we feeling excited about this? Are we thinking this is just going to be absolutely pointless, pointless? um Is it even going to make the grade? We've heard some quite conservative and reductionist responses to new plant based food.
00:57:49
Speaker
ah Kate, what you why don't you respond first? What do you think? Is animal agriculture worried about this? If they are, mean, wow, I think this is the thing that they're that they're not thinking about this. We're we're distracting them.
00:58:03
Speaker
with lab-grown meat. That was never going to be our big player. It's air protein. We're sneaking that in the back door. I think it's absolutely fantastic for news for the animals, for the planet and everything else.
00:58:17
Speaker
People are obsessed with protein, aren't they? And to be perfectly honest, it's not as good as a good old bean. Not really. Not with all the other good things that come with a bean.
00:58:28
Speaker
But hey, it's fermented. And I'm guessing they'll be able to ferment all these other things as well into it at some point as well. um I think at the minute it's already for sale in Singapore, isn't it?
00:58:41
Speaker
In some product or other. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's pretty incredible. I'll leave it there because I'm sure you two have got lots to say about this. I had a look at the actual the the process of production of this stuff, and it's a bit like ah brewing beer or or making bread. that they take ah In this case, it was a ah sample of a microbe from beta carotene. So they took a tiny bit of carrot,
00:59:09
Speaker
And then they they add ah water to it and the nutrients in the water are mixed with the microbe from the carrot, plus a little bit of electricity of electricity to give the whole thing spark.
00:59:19
Speaker
Kickstarts a process where the fermentation process where the microbe um replicates itself over and over again. So over a 24 hour period, you get something that starts off the size of a match head to something that is to a powder that could fill like a bath.
00:59:37
Speaker
And it sort of comes out as a turmeric looking powder. So it's a yellow powder that they can make into a paste that looks like runny peanut butter. And then they can use, it's a very versatile product. So the video clip that i was looking at, it it was three chefs, three sort of top end chefs who were who were yeah using the Solene powder.
00:59:58
Speaker
It was a paste at this point. ah in in ah savory and sweet dishes. So it was versatile across the sort of menu range. It could be used for very savory, chunky food, like a bit like ah tofu in ah and in a curry.
01:00:15
Speaker
And as this sweet dessert, a very light souffle sweet dessert afterwards, it was all solene based and they were demonstrating the range of versatility of texture and taste that you could. I think it's quite a neutral tasting product in itself and then you can add things into it.
01:00:33
Speaker
A bit like tofu, again, the way it's quite bland, and and you can but it's ah it's ah it's a great absorber of tastes and nutrients. You can make it into something sweet or sour. So it is potentially explosive, especially with that electricity. I think you're at a point, Ant, that it's it's sort of it's it's slipping underneath the radar because it isn't calling itself meat or lab-grown meat or alternative meat or anything like that. It's just this powder that is packed full of protein.
01:00:58
Speaker
It's 78% protein, which is a ridiculous amount of protein. I think that the highest protein value that you would get in say beef or something or in beans is in the high 20s.
01:01:10
Speaker
So something that is 78% protein and a few other things in between. It is massive. ah it could be It could be the next big thing, but we've sort of heard that before about new and upcoming products. But something will break through the market and become the thing that everyone now eats instead of beef and chicken and so forth.
01:01:31
Speaker
So it could be Solene. I think it's it's remarkably innovative. and It's quite exciting. um it it It bypasses the yuck factor because it's got electricity in it. I think everyone wants to eat electricity. electricity to see what it tastes like.
01:01:47
Speaker
It's not like having to eat insects or lab grown meat for some people is a ah big turnoff because it it comes from a lab as though nothing else in their lives has come from a lab. But ah it sort of it bypassed that by being quite a fascinating but production process and very easy to do anywhere on the planet ah apparently so you can make this stuff in deserts or in the antarctic or in ah in a city with no fields around so it's amazingly versatile as long as you have a few basic bits of equipment including electricity then you can make this stuff so ah yeah it
01:02:23
Speaker
It huge and it could be on our menus everywhere in five years time, especially if it gets this nod of approval from. so So the non-question letter means that they would send off a, that the ah FDA in America, the the the the Food Association would would send a letter back to them saying they have no more questions to be answered it in regards to the safety of the product i.e it is now a safe product to go ahead and use commercially so they're looking for the not of approval from the us government which is a massive market but as kate was saying it's already available and in singapore as is lab grown meat so singapore seems to be the petri dish for food of the future so yeah i'm i'm excited to try my first electric burger Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, i'm I'm looking online now to see if I can get hold of some because I know Julie would love a ah pack of Solene for Christmas. It's her favorite food. I really like on their website, it says even plants can't compete. It's like the next level up from like plant-based diet. So you've got like
01:03:29
Speaker
oh, I eat animal products. Oh no, I'm plant-based. I'm whole foods plant-based. and No, no, no. I'm air-based. I'll have the air-based menu. I'm electric-based. The amount of of water and land and pollution that that they use is much smaller there is this graphic on their uh website where it shows the uh amount of water used in beef production as opposed to plant production as opposed to solene which is smaller again so it's it's much more environmentally less taxing than even plant-based foods by a huge degree so ah it could be it could be sounds perfect for a nuclear holocaust really doesn't it i mean yeah we're we're all saved by solene yeah yeah
01:04:13
Speaker
Fantastic. I was going to say, it uses a tiny, tiny amount of land as well, doesn't it, compared to all those other things. It's like for a kilogram of protein in metres squares, beef is 326 metres squares,
01:04:31
Speaker
Soy protein is two to three. And this is like a tiny post post it as point zero five. It's like probably a stamp or something. was Maybe a tiny bit more than that. But, you know, it's so, so tiny.
01:04:46
Speaker
It's just incredible. Just think of the a amount of lands we could give back to the wild or perhaps grow a few fruits and vegetables to go with the solean burger that we're going to be eating or something, you know.
01:04:58
Speaker
Yes, it it's going to need something to add some taste, isn't it? Interesting stuff, interesting stuff. Just as well as bland as well, because imagine if it tasted nasty, they'd have a difficulty there, wouldn't they?
01:05:11
Speaker
Yes, well, it does help feed into the vegan stereotype of ah having bland food that's just just air. um and bits of electricity. That's that's fine. Well, we do hope you've enjoyed this show. It's been great having you along with us.
01:05:26
Speaker
There's a tiny little favor that we'd like to ask. Here's Kate to tell you more. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
01:05:40
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:05:56
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:06:07
Speaker
Thank you everyone for listening. the next episode of Enough of the Flaffle will be coming out on Thursday, the 25th of September. It will be Vegan Talk with Anthony, Carlos and Paul.
01:06:18
Speaker
And the theme will be why converting vegans might just mean you're a bit emotionally unaware. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you to Anthony and Mark for your fabulous contributions.
01:06:33
Speaker
And thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Kate, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. Sponsored by Soli.
01:06:46
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:07:01
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:07:27
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player,
01:07:54
Speaker
to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show. Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.