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208- Using a cow to catch a leopard...yes, really
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Kate, Carlos & Ant look at nine stories from around the world that relate to veganism & animal rights, including wins- such as a ban on Greyhound Racing in Wales- setbacks- such as a deeply biased 'health' story from the i paper, and campaigns- such as the one from India, where activists are trying to end the horrendous practice of using live bait to catch big cats.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.exetertoday.co.uk/news/local-news/1900554/uk-s-largest-animal-rescue-sees-devon-s-donkey-sanctuary-play-vital-role.html
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/animal-rights-groups-for-ban-on-using-live-bait-to-capture-big-cats/article70070241.ece
https://seashepherd.org/2025/09/18/join-sea-shepherds-boston-waterway-cleanup-sept-28th/
https://www.league.org.uk/news-and-resources/news/ending-greyhound-racing-wales/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39rr09kyxlo
https://www.worldanimalprotection.org/latest/news/wildlife-farming-in-kenya/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/dairy-sector-told-to-defend-its-reputation-amid-social-media-scrutiny_67257.html
https://plantbasednews.org/animals/brazil-partial-ban-live-animal-testing/
https://inews.co.uk/news/science/why-vegan-more-risks-women-children-3934459?srsltid=AfmBOopo4-P7iRiKTg0WTc8ym93_ub01bNeka_SA3tVF96oPxbfq7VaX
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Kate, Carlos & Ant
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Transcript
Show Introduction and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, if you are on the search for vegan and animal rights news, look no further. You're in the right place. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode of Vegan Week are Kate and Carlos.
00:00:15
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrrr! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick.
00:00:42
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you donna get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:57
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision.
Show Notes and Upcoming Stories
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to our show. My name is Carlos and I'm here with Anthony and Kate.
00:01:09
Speaker
Hi everybody, it's Kate here. This is our vegan week show and it's part of a series of shows where we talk about all the latest news from the animal rights world. But that's enough of the falafel, let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:29
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
Major Animal Rescue Operation in the UK
00:01:42
Speaker
Okay, our first story of the week comes from the UK where we have heard of a major rescue operation uncovering more than 450 animals living in quote harrowing conditions. That's according to the people who were part of the sentencing process at Mansfield Magistrate Court earlier last week. Farm based in Nottinghamshire, the owner has been jailed for 12 months and banned from keeping animals for life.
00:02:09
Speaker
And this story comes from Exeter today, which is down in Devon. they've got a particular angle on this because there is a donkey sanctuary ah in Sidmouth, which has taken on lot of the animals.
00:02:21
Speaker
So amongst these 450 animals, were 29 donkeys and they've they've been cared for with the expertise of the Donkey Sanctuary's head of welfare and two senior advisors.
00:02:33
Speaker
um they' They're talking in this story about the particular donkey focus. Kate, you've had a look at this one. I really wasn't quite sure why there would be so many donkeys on a farm. I've i've looked into it and I'm not really convinced unless they' they're doing sort of hard labor. But Either way, horrid what was happening to these animals.
00:02:55
Speaker
Fantastic that, you know, a lot of them have been rescued, rehomed, and that there's been a relatively tough sentence put in place for the perpetrator. Yeah, it is an absolutely awful story. And if you want to read any more details about it, you can look on the RSPCA website. So it was actually several, I can't remember, about seven organisations previously plus the RSPCA and the police going in to rescue the animals.
00:03:25
Speaker
And um yeah, it wasn't just donkeys, horses, dogs, guinea pigs. And apparently this guy, he, I don't know, clearly he's, I don't know, he's got some sort of issue somehow.
00:03:37
Speaker
And his girlfriend as well, actually. He couldn't say no when people offered them an animal that they couldn't look after and he just couldn't turn them down, apparently. He ended up with something like 170 guinea pigs and all of them were in terrible condition. the judge said a lot of this could easily have been prevented but you wantonly neglected hundreds of animals of a wide range of species. You lack insight into the care of animals and you present a high risk of offending again.
00:04:09
Speaker
as far as the welfare of animals is concerned. So it's absolutely brilliant. They're not going to be allowed to have, look after animals, look after it in inverted commas, ever again.
00:04:21
Speaker
But I couldn't really work out exactly. It's a farm and it sounds like they' there were cows there also, which were in a really terrible state.
00:04:33
Speaker
There was a lamb, which was an in an extremely terrible state. But there's there's quite a few animals, I think it was about 200, that they need to get a court order to get removed. So I'm guessing they must be farmed animals.
00:04:48
Speaker
And this they this happened like in 2023, after they were warned in 2016, and it took a member of the public going along looking for, i think she belongs to some charity,
00:05:03
Speaker
that tries to track down lost dogs and it took a member of the public to go along in 2023 to see what a terrible state it was. This is after they'd, like I say, been warned all those years before. Nobody had bothered to go and check that they'd done anything about it.
00:05:21
Speaker
So all those animals have been living in that awful state until recently. And then I guess these farmed animals have, they've had to wait until later to to get rescued.
00:05:34
Speaker
So... Certainly shows the holes in the system, doesn't it? And goodness me, what a lot of suffering has happened and and until this this finally, some justice seems to be happening there.
00:05:47
Speaker
Can I just one last point? But this donkey sanctuary in Exeter, I mean, the the main story is coming from Exeter and co covers that donkey sanctuary. But when you look, I'm afraid they're not vegan.
00:06:01
Speaker
They have got every kind of meat and dairy product in their in their restaurant. Say no more, just a big sigh, really. Definitely room for improvement for them there. Thank you for that one, Kate.
Greyhound Racing Legislation in Wales
00:06:12
Speaker
So Carlos's first story comes to us from the League Against Cruel Sports. We often take stories from their news page on their website. And they're reporting that the Welsh government has published draft legislation to ban greyhound racing. Now, you might remember we we mentioned something along these lines earlier on.
00:06:31
Speaker
in the year. Basically, things have just taken a ah ah step further. um They've published the details of their draft bill for the prohibition of greyhound racing following the announcement that we reported on in February that now it's the right time to move to ban greyhound racing. The League Against Cruel Sports have put an angle that there there needs to be lessons learned from New Zealand's experience. And again, I think we reported this on the show. New new Zealand were were cutting out greyhound racing in December of last year 2024 they announced this but Carlos there's that worrying statistic that's mentioned in the article that basically says since that ban was brought in the the number of accidents and and basically bits of malpractice against greyhounds in New Zealand has gone up drastically um though there's only one greyhound course left in
00:07:25
Speaker
in Wales, there's still dogs using that. And we we don't want this period to to have a similar thing going on for those animals. So I mean, what's your reading of this? Do you do you think there's a ah chance things can be tightened up to to prevent that kind of repeat incident?
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, I guess i guess the experience is that you know went once something is is going to end and is doomed, the people who run it and enjoy it, they have less at stake. I mean, what's what's the worst that the government can do? Ban it?
00:07:56
Speaker
i mean, it's already banned. They're just kind of on the last few years. So just they just become more reckless you know with even less consideration for animal welfare. So obviously, that's something that needs to be monitored as heavily as it was monitored up till now.
00:08:10
Speaker
or even maybe more, just to make sure, knowing fully well that, for example, you know, if if you say, okay, if you have X amount of accidents, or if it's proven that you're misreading dogs, we'll close down your operation. Well, that's not a threat anymore. So there needs to be a different type of threat to ensure that the the welfare of of the greyhounds is taken care of.
00:08:32
Speaker
But overall, i mean, let's not let's not consider this in any way a poor piece of news. It's a great piece of news. You know, there's still the loophole that they can breed and export dogs for racing elsewhere.
00:08:44
Speaker
if you went for a real ban, you would forbid that from happening. But still, you know, it's it's great that this is happening because it creates a great moral pressure in other countries, specifically for countries in the UK.
00:08:56
Speaker
So it it looks like Scotland is very close to banning it as well. And if they just go, well... Wales bandit, we should follow. it just It just creates this sort of pressure on on scott a Scottish Parliament.
00:09:09
Speaker
Should be much easier for Scotland because there's there's no actual active tracks in the country. So I thought that's that's a lot easier to rush through, isn't it? Yeah. and then But then then that just kind of snowballs, doesn't it?
00:09:20
Speaker
And hopefully it gets to England, where most which which has many more tracks than Wales has. And and hopefully it ah it also creates like a moral precedent for the use of animals in other entertainment sectors, like horse racing and so on and so forth.
00:09:34
Speaker
Although horse racing is um a very different type of of problem to tackle because the amount of money and political power in horse racing is much, much higher than ah than in in greyhound racing. It's pretty much, you know, on one hand, you have like a very working class sport and I'm using the word sport here and how they use it. Like greyhound racing and and then, you know horse racing is as a sport for the elites.
00:10:00
Speaker
The racehorse is being worth millions of pounds sometimes. So... that, that and you know, and and it caught you know you know they there are no they're no live greyhound races on on ITV, for example, but, you know, yeah the Grand National is always going to be there.
00:10:14
Speaker
So it's different, but but it's different, but in moral terms, it's exactly the same. So it creates a nice precedent to talk about when you're trying to convince the public, you know.
00:10:25
Speaker
If greyhound racing is cruel, then horse racing is also cruel by the same measure. Hence, both, if one has been banned, the other should be banned as well. But let's not think of the future let's just be happy for ah greyhound racing has been banned from from wales Absolutely. And no, I'm i'm completely with you. it's it's It's not a stretch to see how how you could jump from greyhound racing being banned in one part of the UK to that generalising to other animal racing, quote, sports across the the whole of the UK and that influencing other countries too.
00:10:59
Speaker
We'll definitely take that. Thank you, Carlos.
Live Bait Ban Proposal in India
00:11:02
Speaker
We're going to move on to a story from thehindu.com. I've got to say, if you want to read news stories on the Hindu, be prepared to do all manner of things to ah actually see the article without things popping up all over your screen and what have you, but we've managed it.
00:11:17
Speaker
The headline, animal rights groups for ban on using live bait to capture big cats. The main question on my mind there was, why are we trying to capture the big cats?
00:11:28
Speaker
In the first case, when you when you read the article, you see that it's instances where the forest department in parts of India have been trying to catch ah capture leopards and tigers involved in, quote, human wildlife conflict situations.
00:11:46
Speaker
So you can understand a little bit about what that might Looked like there. This appeal from the, quote, animal rights groups comes in the wake of an incident in the Mysuru district. I've probably pronounced that wrong.
00:11:59
Speaker
Where a calf was used as live bait to lure and trap a leopard. earlier this month and though the the leopard was trapped, the calf was spared, it wasn't wasn't killed. it was It was in a cage basically for for several hours and the article which is coming from a non-animal rights news source if you like, describes the fact that they they suffered trauma in their words.
00:12:25
Speaker
And it has since been taken to, I think it's a sanctuary, a shelter for care and rehabilitation. People for Animals, PFA, intervened in this case. and And they're saying that it was them that basically rescued this animal, preventing it being used for similar bits of baiting. This is not a one-off incident.
00:12:46
Speaker
We've also got the Indian Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, SPCA, um Also flagging the issue and commenting on this too. Kate, we were only talking last week on the show about the fact that in India and other ah cultures where there is a strong Hindu influence, the way in which cows are treated on the one hand is reverence, on the other hand can be almost flagged.
00:13:14
Speaker
from a vegan perspective, the complete opposite. And this is another example of this. I don't want to just be be picking on this particular culture. That's certainly not why we're featuring it in the news. But on the one hand, you've got to think that the fact that this is generally a revered animal might have helped people step in and say, no, this isn't okay. Whereas perhaps they would have been okay if was a different animal.
00:13:36
Speaker
But at the same time, it's still been put in a cage, fearing for its life whilst a giant cat is prowling around wanting to eat it. Yeah, does seem really strange. Are calves revered or is it just the mother cows? I don't know, actually. I haven't looked, but yeah. I mean, it must be absolutely terrifying to live in a close proximity to some of these animals.
00:14:04
Speaker
big cats and fear for your children going out and about and and all of that must be terrifying. But, you know, at the same time, you know, the reasons for the danger from these cats is basically, you know, down to humans kind of encroaching on their forest and,
00:14:23
Speaker
you know Apparently they graze their animals in forests where the cats are. And and this this has been going on obviously for a long time. And this way of trying to catch big cats that they are have been identified as attacking people like leopards, tigers and lions, you know using live bait in this way has been going on for quite some time apparently. And it's not just calves, they use dogs.
00:14:52
Speaker
They use goats and even do live baiting things for tourist shows. i mean, can you imagine? It's not the kind of thing I'd like to go see, i have to say. You know, there are supposedly laws against it, but still government departments and people still commonly do do it.
00:15:08
Speaker
And there's an organisation called Beauty Without Cruelty who've been... trying to, you know, urge that alternatives are used instead, the you know, non-lethal.
00:15:19
Speaker
Apparently predators, they often go back to their unfinished prey. So suggesting using the carcasses of their last kill ah not live bait. Education for in the local community on keeping safe and staying calm.
00:15:37
Speaker
Although I don't think stay quite very calm if I had a big cat kind of looking at me and licking his chops. I'm not sure about that. But you know, kind of just trying to educate people on coexistence and stuff. So which is easier said than done, I'm sure. and also apparently harvest time, they they kind of they some live in like sugarcane and banana fields. And if they're being harvested, they obviously come out and then they're more likely to attack people, I guess.
00:16:06
Speaker
And also things like live drones and nets instead of bait trapping. It's not easy, is it? And it really isn't. But yeah, this this is not a great practice.
00:16:18
Speaker
No, no. and and And good that the objection has been raised to to this particular way that is is currently being used. Like like you say there, There have got to be alternatives.
00:16:29
Speaker
And thank you for the live fact check that we're getting in the enough of the falafel studio at the moment. So typically it is just the female cows that are revered in in Hindu cultures. ah The male babies are let to die of starvation as they cannot be killed. And India is a huge beef and leather exporter.
00:16:47
Speaker
Obviously, these are generalizations. But yeah, seeing as we ask the question, important stuff. So thanks for that. Thank you for that one, Kate.
Flying Disc Ban for Marine Safety
00:16:53
Speaker
Let's move back to the UK for a story, not a million miles away from me. In Wales, Neathport Talbot councillor Robert Wood called on the authority, the local authority, to discourage flying rings at Aberraven Beach and Small Beach.
00:17:11
Speaker
also known as Little Warren. Why is this, you might ask? Well, this is because they can very easily get stuck around the head of seals and often cause, well, fatal injuries ultimately.
00:17:27
Speaker
infections things like that um if you follow the link in the show notes you can see a picture of an unfortunate animal that has has suffered this fate it's it's got the when i say flying disc it's like frisbee frisbee with a hole in in the middle big plastic rings um Obviously, lots of people wanting to play with those by the seaside and and on the beach.
00:17:47
Speaker
ah There has been moves in other councils across England and Wales. Similarly, other councils wanting to do this. And retailers such as Tesco and Sainsbury's have volunteered to stop selling these toys.
00:18:00
Speaker
which can cause fatal injuries to seals. I didn't know anything about this, Carlos, that actually there'd already been quite a lot of moves towards this. And you can see why, because it's...
00:18:13
Speaker
It's horrendous that the things that can happen to these animals and um and they're not animals that are generally well looked after anyway. That's true. And honestly, when I saw this piece of news, I had to see a picture to understand what was happening because it seemed like ah like ah you know like a funny funny internet thing. But then It's a real, real problem. And it just goes to show things we we take for granted, things we that seem minor to us.
00:18:43
Speaker
You know, just playing with your flying disc on the beach and then it flies off and you can't find it. Then think, well, that's fine, you know, whatever. Somebody will find it and pick it up or just one small thing that goes in the ocean.
00:18:54
Speaker
Who cares, right? But then, you know apparently, this is a real problem. And I'm very glad it's banned. But um we we also have to look at, at you know this is a bit symbolic, right? I mean, how many flying disks are actually lost on a beach every year, realistically. But it's it's important to kind of so look at this like ah ah sort of a token, so symbolic ban, which kind of then leads to bigger bans on other things, you know like the use of single-use plastics and all the plastic packaging
00:19:26
Speaker
that that's part of our food eye food so food systems. although All of that ends up somewhere, has to end up somewhere. And we know that a lot of it that ends up in the ocean. And you know if a flying plastic ring can harm a seal in this fashion and other marine marine mammals, then, you know, millions, billions of plastic bottles can also harm other animals in a way. So it's ah it's nice that this kind of gets the conversation going, even if it's, you know, a small, small part of Wales, a very small part of Wales that does this band. but hope It just kind of starts this conversation, which I think is really positive.
00:20:05
Speaker
And I mean, my mind is is going to Luke, who has recorded um episodes with us in the past. Before he was vegan, he was campaigning on behalf of the MBR beagles. And and the a really specific, I mean, that's that's a more extreme single issue campaign than flying discs on ah on a local beach. But... But my point is he was campaigning ardently on behalf of these dogs while still eating meat.
00:20:31
Speaker
and And eventually the fact that he's been advocating for animals in one way is then leading his brain to think, hang on, There are other ways that I could be advocating for these same animals and other animals.
00:20:43
Speaker
And now he's a passionate vegan, hunt sab and et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's just in terms of opening the door to animal rights conversations, it's a lot easier to to get people's imagination. If this is your local area, I'm i'm not suggesting that people living in you know, landlocked Nottinghamshire are going to be like, yes, this is absolutely the right thing. I'm fully behind it. And oh goodness, I've turned vegan as well.
00:21:08
Speaker
But if this is your local area, that's something that I think a lot of people would get behind. And from there, it's just a small hop to the next animal rights campaign. And the next one, it you know, you can see it happening, Connie.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah. And look, there's a lot of NIMBYs who, as a rule, will not be vegan. nimbly are doing a really good a great job of file of of fighting the kind of creation of slaughterhouses and chicken farms and all that stuff because nobody wants to live too close to one of those. You know, these people are not vegan and they're they're fighting our cause.
00:21:43
Speaker
Absolutely. No, thank you for that one. And we spoke about that for just about long enough for for Kate to ah just discreetly recycle her flying discs in the background, living by the coast as she does. I'm sure I saw a Frisbee in the background of her video there.
00:21:58
Speaker
Our next story is beautifully linked to this. and This will have happened by the time we publish this episode on Monday. But as we record now, this is a future event.
Coastal Cleanup and Environmental Activism
00:22:07
Speaker
It's happening on Sunday, the 28th of September in Boston, Massachusetts.
00:22:14
Speaker
And it's being organised by Sea Shepherd. We don't often report things from Sea Shepherd, but um came across this one. And this Sunday, as we record, or last Sunday, as you listen to it now, ah Sea Shepherd volunteers will gather along the Charles River to remove harmful plastics and debris before they can reach the ocean.
00:22:33
Speaker
They say, join us for an international coastal cleanup day event in your community. Trash in this waterway flows directly into the Atlantic where it threatens whales, dolphins and countless other marine species.
00:22:46
Speaker
And they finish. I think this is really nice way of thinking about things. And perhaps we'll talk about this now, Kate. Sea Shepherd crews are on the water every day, patrolling marine sanctuaries, cutting animals free from nets and confronting illegal fishing.
00:23:01
Speaker
This is your chance to stand with them from the shore. That's a really nice sentiment, isn't it? And it it made me think, I wonder how many other organizations doing real in-your-face direct action that is a bit much for most of us.
00:23:16
Speaker
I wonder how many other the little bridges like this there could be to... support their work, do very important things for that for that local community in Boston. And I don't know, just raise their profile. It's a real good thing they're doing there, isn't it?
00:23:30
Speaker
Yeah, it is. And it's a kind of, it's something that a whole family can join in as well and, um you know, get stuck in. In fact, actually, there is an app called Clean Swell, where you can log some of your bits and pieces that you've you you find um i mean i couldn't i can't i'm not sure i could be bothered myself that's 10 bottle tops and what have you um but i guess kids would enjoy doing that but it isn't just a boston thing apparently it's a worldwide thing i didn't know that i've never i've never heard of it i mean i i have i have gone along and done beach cleans and things like that
00:24:11
Speaker
But it happens all around the world. And it's been going for like over 35 years with 50 million volunteers, apparently, 280,000 tons of trash removed in countries around the world, which is pretty good isn't it But at the same time, you know, i sorry, um ah i always kind of think, hang on a minute, the most polluting stuff, and actually when I walk on the beach here, stuff find all the time comes from fishermen.
00:24:42
Speaker
It's all the fishing debris that's floating around in the sea, all that plastic and stuff. but They just don't care. People, you know, some of the, we've got a whole load of boats out there fishing at the minute. I think they're doing mussels or something. And and then there's all these like massive barrel things. I don't know what they were full of, oil or something, just chucked out.
00:25:04
Speaker
And then they float up on the beach and they just don't care, ah which is really annoying. I get cross it, you know, it's always us that have to go out there and kind of do all the cleaning up.
00:25:15
Speaker
When the industry should flipping well, pull its finger out and do something about all this plastic rubbish, you know, stop producing it, come up with other things, you know, i don't know if you remember, but do you remember um plastic ocean film that was kind of out a while, I don't know further if either of you saw that.
00:25:34
Speaker
But um it was very upsetting and everybody cried over it. And Tesco's and others, they stopped selling their mushrooms in plastic boxes for like two minutes.
00:25:47
Speaker
And then they're straight back again as soon they think people have forgotten. well, let's carry on churning out the plastic. So I don't know. It's ah it's a massive thing. Yeah, I think it's great that...
00:25:58
Speaker
people that can get out there and and do this. It makes people feel good. It's good for kids. But, you know, we we need to pull our socks up, don't we, as a species, and just stop producing in the first place. Yeah.
00:26:11
Speaker
We can do both, can't we? we can we can do the We can do the beach clean or what have you, and we can then also make the point, but you know what would make the biggest difference? Stop buying this or ah whatever.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, very good point. And um listeners that want to get involved as well as, was it Seaswell, you said, Kate? the Yes, yes. Seaswell app, you can download it. Seaswell Yeah, and I can definitely vouch for children's interest. I was litter picking with some children today that was completely their idea and they were really enjoying it.
00:26:45
Speaker
um But you can also, if you follow the link in the show notes and scroll down to the bottom of the Sea Shepherd article, they're saying if you want to lead a cleanup in your area, um there's various bits of help they can get give you to get started, which sounds like a jolly good idea.
00:27:01
Speaker
Lovely stuff. Okay, one last story before we hear Carlos and Kate's pick of the week. We had a really interesting chat with Paul and Freedom episode 200 in the new show and we were hearing about elephants being sold from Namibia to unknown
Wildlife Farming Controversy in Kenya
00:27:20
Speaker
buyers. A real interesting insight particularly with freedom coming from Namibia, hearing that from an African perspective.
00:27:28
Speaker
um This next story comes from World Animal Protection and it is a new report that is revealing the cruel reality of wildlife farming in Kenya. They say that this report uncovers cruelty in Kenya's wildlife farms, exposing animal suffering and health risks and threats to conservation. The key findings, they've kind of grouped them together.
00:27:53
Speaker
ah So animal suffering, all facilities investigated showed serious welfare concerns, including overcrowding, untreated injuries, parasite infestations, poor nutrition and severe stress behaviours.
00:28:07
Speaker
Another key finding was with regards to public health threats. So tourist venues that offered close contact with wild animals lacked basic hygiene measures such as hand washing, exposing visitors to the risk of zoonotic disease transmission.
00:28:22
Speaker
And the final point they make is that this completely undermines conservation. So instead of protecting wildlife, commercial farming was found to increase the demand for wild caught animals. Not surprising, really.
00:28:34
Speaker
Putting native species at further risk and contradicting claims of conservation. Carlos, my ignorance was highlighted looking at this.
00:28:44
Speaker
ah didn't know that wildlife farming was a thing. It sounds pretty much as horrific as you would think. What was what was your take reading through this? Yeah, again, I'm like you. I didn't even know this was a thing, but I guess it makes sense.
00:28:59
Speaker
People will will be curious about the taste of different of animals that are not traditionally farmed. Some cruel business person will find a way to meet this demand, I guess. So it makes sense in the cruel world we live in that this exists.
00:29:14
Speaker
Of course, it's as terrible as you can imagine. you know It's all this rhetoric about conservation and sustainable, but the report basically shows that it if anything, making this available, these wild animals available as as meat in a sort of a farming context, it makes people want them more.
00:29:34
Speaker
So in effect, they they can't farm enough, so they go out and actually capture wild animals and and sell them for food. This is, of course, terrible, and it kind of completely goes against that this rhetoric of conservation or sustainable use There's, of course, the zoonotic risk, stressed, immunocompromised animals, bad hygiene for visitors.
00:30:00
Speaker
This is how you get another COVID, basically. very you know it's it's just ah It's just a very bad idea. Obviously, it's bad for the animals, but also bad for the humans. because who knows what kinds of diseases these animals might get especially being and situations.
00:30:16
Speaker
And it's also bad for Kenya because Kenya has fought really hard to be seen as a global leader in conservation, this kind of safari tourism where people don't actually kill animals. They just kind of go and kind of look at the animals and in the wild, not in a farm.
00:30:31
Speaker
this This kind of goes against it. It just just makes kenia look like a very hypocritical nation And for people who want to go to Kenya and enjoy in this in this humane safari tourism and maybe sponsor conservation projects in Kenya, it just makes people turn away from the country.
00:30:49
Speaker
to To look at the bigger picture, because this is a fairly small type of kind of business or industry, I mean, certainly it's nothing compared to... farming traditionally farmed animals.
00:31:01
Speaker
This kind of ties in with something which I find interesting is that there's like there's a growing opposition to zoos and circuses and wild animal performances, just just getting animals which are not which have not been domesticated and using them for anything.
00:31:17
Speaker
there' this There's quite a lot of backlash in public about this, even among non-vegans, things like you know shows with marine mammals, for example, which would have been, of course, wild animals before capture.
00:31:30
Speaker
I think it's an interesting trend um that's happening with ESO. there's There's a big outrage about this. And I think if you went around and interviewed people and did a poll of what people thought about wildlife farming, they would population would be against it.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yes, it's one of those where the the disconnect is is there to be exploited, isn't it? in that you're you're You're right, that would be people's opinion. Well, like but the two of us, we were we were surprised to see that it happens.
00:31:58
Speaker
But but some somewhere there are there are people buying these things who will sort of think, oh, that looks interesting, I'll give that a go. But they're not necessarily... Well, maybe they are... Maybe I'm being naive.
00:32:10
Speaker
Maybe they are thinking exactly about what's involved, but... Yeah, I'll i'll add something, though. I mean, if if we want these people doing the wildlife farming to transition away from it, we need to give them, or Kenyan government needs to give them the same care we do for people transitioning away from animal farming. So, you know, we you need to you if if it's if it's just banned from one day to the next with no transition plan, then this will just go under ground because these people will be left with no job and nothing to do or kind of their source of income will all of a sudden disappear So they will they will probably continue doing it, but underground, which will make it even worse.
00:32:44
Speaker
So this needs to be part of a transitional plan, which is what some governments are doing with this kind of transition to plant-based farming. I mean, this is not me showing compassion to animal abusers, by the way. This is me being realistic. Oh, no, this no it's the pragmatics of of the situation, isn't it? It's what we think will bring an end to the suffering as as quickly as possible to as many animals.
00:33:04
Speaker
but certainly it' certainly a complex issue. Thank you for that
Brazil's Ban on Animal Testing for Cosmetics
00:33:08
Speaker
one, Carlos. Now we're going to take a quick jingle break. Carlos is going to give us his pick of the week that is coming from Brazil.
00:33:17
Speaker
And Kate's pick of the week comes from a dear old friend. Going undercover and filming footage of animal agriculture is hard work. Sometimes activists need a day off too.
00:33:28
Speaker
Oh, that's why we are delighted that this next story comes to us from the great guys at Farming UK, who dish the dirt on British animal agriculture every week to save animal rights activists from having to do all the work themselves.
00:33:43
Speaker
Farming UK. Sometimes it's just easier if the trash takes itself out. Yes indeed, it's been a long minute since we have heard from the good people at Farming UK doing their best to undermine their own efforts to exploit animals, but this story had to be featured. Kate will let you give us the details, but basically it it it seems like ah the the dairy industry is realising that its reputation needs defending quite desperately.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, thanks Farming UK. Dairy sector told to defend its reputation amid social media scrutiny. The whole thing is gold top.
00:34:24
Speaker
So if anyone's old enough to remember that, like me, honestly, I hope you don't mind, but i just want to read it. It's just dairy farmers have been urged to take control of their industry's image and make their voices heard in the face of growing scrutiny.
00:34:41
Speaker
More than 120 delegates attended this year's Women in Dairy Conference on the 17th of September, with organisers hailing it as one the most inspiring yet, the event run by the Royal association Association
Challenges Faced by the Dairy Industry
00:34:55
Speaker
of British Dairy Farmers, which, by the way, everybody, is a charity.
00:35:01
Speaker
devoted to promoting dairy farming in the UK, I never knew that, brought together the farmers and industry leaders for a day of talks, networking and shared learning.
00:35:12
Speaker
Among of the key keynote speakers was television commentator and equestrian figure Alice Plunkett, who delivered a strong call for dairy farmers to protect the sector's public image and social license.
00:35:25
Speaker
Plunkett, a long-time advocate for the equestrian sector, drew comparisons between the pressures faced by horse sports and those now confronting farming.
00:35:37
Speaker
Oh dear. All of us are depressed and miserable at the vegan-led social media that seems to be leading the conversation in this country, she told delegates.
00:35:48
Speaker
Not all of us, Alice. We're not all depressed and miserable at Some of us are smiling really broadly at the moment. We have to understand that we have a voice and that voice needs to be heard.
00:36:00
Speaker
She urged delegates to recognise that how they present themselves on social media, at local shows or simply welcoming visitors to their farms matters deeply.
00:36:11
Speaker
Our industry shapes how the country looks and how it is fed, how people are employed, how communities are formed. And each of you carries the responsibility to show that proudly.
00:36:23
Speaker
blah blah blah blah blah Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You get the drift anyway. this did Did you find it interesting that like, I feel like on the show, we talk a lot about goodness me, like we need to, we need to change the narrative. You know, the way that vegans are portrayed in the media is not good, et cetera. Like we will be put,
00:36:42
Speaker
portraying things in that way. We're feeling that. Whereas actually from the dairy industry, they're saying it's the vegans who are leading the conversation. They're doing best. We need to change this narrative. but ah I thought just all things aside from animal agony, the social injustice of that.
00:36:58
Speaker
quite interesting that in a sense, both sides are feeling like we're not getting our message out there. Do you feel but about the dairy industry in particular though? they have been um It seems to be on so many from so many angles it's been got up you know There's been so much undercover footage, the the the health aspects of dairy. i mean you know and ah i just feel like they really are on the back foot and they are struggling, aren't they?
00:37:28
Speaker
know Yeah, I would agree. I think the fact that it's still a dominant thing, you know, but more more people consume dairy than don't. So it's easy to kind of, as a vegan, and someone who's got a ah conscience towards animal rights to kind of think, ah, but it's still not enough, you know, they're still winning. But yeah you're you're right, the tide is definitely turning.
00:37:51
Speaker
Well, when you go in a supermarket, though, and you see that vast array of different plant-based milks, I mean, how different is that? How depressing must that be to a lot of farmers going into the supermarket thinking I've been up to my knees in shit all day, doing all these hideous things to animals, and look at all this stuff here. People are not, you know, it's so much easier for two people to choose the plant-based milk now.
00:38:18
Speaker
you know they can feel safer because they can i mean they they they probably think, wow, look at all these different milks. Obviously loads of people are buying it. I think I'll try it. but mean I ah just don't think that they've necessarily got the upper hand anymore.
00:38:34
Speaker
You know, a lot of dairy farmers are reporting depression. i mean, that doesn't make me particularly happy that a lot of dairy farmers are depressed, but they're like twice as high as the general public. I just think we have got, we we we are beginning to get the upper hand, I think.
00:38:50
Speaker
What do you think, Carlos? Well, I'm sorry they're depressed. but they do live in a country where they can ah find other employment quite easily. I don't feel as bad about them as I do about the Kenyan wildlife farmers because there is lots they can do that's not dairy farming. One of the most cruel industries in this godforsaken world.
00:39:13
Speaker
that yeah of of all Of all the cruel behavior can engage legally and be paid for it in the UK, dairy farming is probably among the top of it. So smallest violin, I'm afraid.
00:39:29
Speaker
Yeah. I would agree. And it's, I mean, you know, we we have that tongue in cheek jingle about farming UK, but sometimes that is the kind of source to go to, to actually see what what is the reality of these industries sometimes, because this isn't a Daily Mail headline. This isn't a, well, in a sense, it is a press release, isn't it? But it's you know, you're kind of peeking behind the veil there and and and seeing the cracks, really. and And very often they are reporting that things are not going well.
00:40:04
Speaker
And they probably feel like they can afford to say that in an industry specific context, in the same way that we, but you know, we might discuss our our difficulties on this podcast or in ah in a vegan only Facebook group or something like that, you know.
00:40:20
Speaker
But you wouldn't want to be broadcasting it as part of the Beyond Burgers PR campaign or or whatever. So, yeah, we'll definitely take any any struggles for, like you say, Carlos, that horrid industry.
00:40:33
Speaker
Don't forget, 37% of beef comes from the dairy industry also. So it was going to have, you know, as it goes down, which it will, it's going to have an impact on that too. ze Indeed. I think this is a good story.
00:40:49
Speaker
Fantastic. We'll definitely take it. And I think we're definitely taking a positive from your pick of the week, Carlos, too. So my pick of the week is that ah Brazil has passed a new federal law which bans live vertebrate animal testing, which sounds amazing.
00:41:06
Speaker
And now here's the downer part of the sentence for cosmetics and ingredients used in cosmetics. So it's not all live vertebrate animal testing, but just for the use of cosmetics and ingredients using cosmetics. So this law includes a two-year grace period during which regulatory frameworks like cruelty-free labeling must be established.
00:41:26
Speaker
Alternative method methods, such as the monocyte activation test, which I confess I'm not familiar with, are being highlighted as ethical replacements to historical tests, like the rabbit pyrogenicity test.
00:41:42
Speaker
and pretty sure this is related to inflammation in the eyes when the cosmetics are applied to them. This is the first time Brazil has enacted a federal law banning cosmetic animal testing.
00:41:54
Speaker
So just to be clear, Brazil kind of is organized a bit like the United States. So has states and then it has ah capital, which is Brasilia.
00:42:05
Speaker
and And that capital kind of enacts, of course, their state laws. And then there's like federal laws which apply to the whole territory. So there have been states in Brazil which had some restrictions on this.
00:42:16
Speaker
But this is a federal law. So this applies to all of Brazil. The law is being hailed by NGOs, some of which have campaigned for this, of course. but also faces some tests and challenges in implementation and oversight. It's a massive, massive country with lots of people.
00:42:35
Speaker
Because i think one of the positives, as I said, is because the ban is federal, it reduces, you know, there was like lots of states had rules on this. And this this law is so restrictive that it just kind of makes it so much easier to apply before states had kind of like a patchwork of state laws. And now it's kind of just makes kind of cruelty free, just the thing.
00:42:56
Speaker
There's a two year grace period. So that's a bit of a downer as well, because that means there's more time for kind of the industry to, you know, take its sweet time in applying it and kind of create loopholes, delay adoption, et cetera. So this needs not just the law creating, but kind of somebody to drive it.
00:43:13
Speaker
What it does show though, is that for example, the non-animal methods, like I mentioned before, they are viable, they're cost-effective, and they're in some ways even scientifically superior. and And in the in the eu and US, we've seen kind of a lot of discussion around this because science has moved on. but The need for animal testing just doesn't exist anymore.
00:43:32
Speaker
But of course, as all industries, there's a great, great inertia to change things. Because imagine even if you say, well, we've got non-animal testing, which is as cost-effective, as efficient, or even more, that's fine.
00:43:47
Speaker
But all these companies, they will have labs with scientists who are trained to do live live animal testing. So all of a sudden, you need to you know retrain all these people or hire new people, sell equipment, or in this case, I scrap equipment if it's all if it's banned, buy new equipment,
00:44:07
Speaker
it's you know there's a lot of inertia on these changes And sometimes, you know believe me, you know these companies don't do animal testing because they're cruel. They do it because it's cheaper or they're just used to it and it would cost a lot of money to change.
00:44:19
Speaker
Amongst this inertia, having a ban, And making it illegal is a big motivator for them to change. So well done, Brazil. Yeah. And to your point from the Kenyan wildlife farming report, Carlos, in terms of the need to retrain people or redeploy people or give them new alternatives, it was really nice when reading this article that there's the offer of a free training course by Brazil.
00:44:46
Speaker
well, Humane World is is promoting it, but the the training course is actually run by the Animal Free Safety Assessment Collaboration. You can find this out by following following links if you look at the news article.
00:44:59
Speaker
um And it's basically a a training course to to show how you can do animal free research for that very reason, that you've got this infrastructure and history and knowledge base that is hopefully becoming obsolete, but we can't just assume that's just going to happen by itself. So it's good to see that there are organizations trying to kind of grease the cogs, if you like, and and help move these things forward and show that there's a, like you say, a scientific alternative that in in many other countries is already becoming the norm or is an increasing minority. So it's all nudges in the right direction.
00:45:38
Speaker
Well done, Brazil. And hopefully we follow. Absolutely. Okay. I mean, yeah not UK listeners, but all three of us in the, in this podcast today are based in the UK.
00:45:49
Speaker
Yeah, indeed. And I have to say as well, just again, just the following links from this news article that came to us from plant-based news, you can, you can learn about some of the methods that are used and have been used historically in in testing on animals for for cosmetics. And I mean, that rabbit pyrogen test one I've just been reading about now, just absolutely deplorable things.
00:46:15
Speaker
you the The mind boggles, really. So if you if you're not aware of those things and you don't think it's going to keep you up all night for the next month then um give it a quick read and ah and educate yourself because i think sometimes when you find out these things it can really help your advocacy because you know what you're talking about when someone says oh why does it matter that my toothpaste has been tested on animals why does that matter well here's why it matters here's what is involved thank you for that one carlos that is carlos's pick for the week we've heard kate's too we've given our opinions on all but one stories we've still got one to come but dear listeners we very much love hearing what you have got to say about the week's news here is how to get in touch with us
00:47:02
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:47:22
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com So our last story of the week sometimes will be a ah lighter sort of, and finally, story. We were talking about Solene last week and Solar Foods.
00:47:38
Speaker
um And sometimes it's kind of the biggest news story of the week, and we've saved it till last. This one is definitely not straightforward, um and there's definitely lots of food for thought here. So let's get stuck into it.
00:47:50
Speaker
It comes to us from the iPaper, whose tagline is, Impartial News and Intelligent Debate. Hmm. We'll see. Having read this article through, the headline is why being vegan has more risks for women and children.
Report on Vegan Diets and Nutrient Deficiency
00:48:04
Speaker
They say women and children are more at risk from nutrition, nutrient deficiencies on a plant based diet.
00:48:12
Speaker
This comes from a recent quote club club. well, it's kind of Club 12 symposium, but the the way that it's written, it's it's like Club B12 symposium.
00:48:23
Speaker
um the The next one of these, you can you can go for a whole weekend away talking about nutrition and and things like that and talking about B12 deficiencies. I think the next one is just outside London, but this latest one was in London and basically quote experts at the recent nutrition meeting have been saying that for most omnivores meat and dairy products supply significant proportions of some essential nutrients now you might be thinking as a long-time vegan or um plant-based diet follower oh goodness goodness I better pay attention to this this this might be something new
00:49:00
Speaker
think, I mean, Kate and Carlos, you can contradict me here, but I don't read anything new here at all. They bring up vitamin B12, riboflavin, vitamin D, iron, and proteins. So there's there's no kind of new catch there.
00:49:15
Speaker
I don't think there's a lot of talk about deficiency causing fatigue, anemia, harming brain cells. I'll cut to the chase. Kate, Carlos, did did either of you read anything that you'd not read before here?
00:49:30
Speaker
Am I missing something? No, I didn't. It's flipping clickbaity, worrisome stuff, isn't it? think it's... might be aimed at like parents, grandparents who've children, oh, they've gone vegan they're having babies. and And, you know, because it was kind of, it's like, you know, all this worrisome stuff about having brain damage because you you you haven't had enough B12, which is why people use nitrous oxide recreational, that you can get brain damage.
00:50:04
Speaker
don't know. It's just really ah annoying. am i Am I being naive? I mean, Carlos, you'll tell me if I'm being very simple here. But like, I'd always thought that that I, the independent, would be giving at least some sort of balance, some kind of, what they say, impartial news, intelligent debate.
00:50:25
Speaker
But that there's nothing in here from the point of view of... a long-term vegan, a long-term vegan woman or someone who's brought up a child and said, it is actually possible to do. It's it's all about the risks, isn't it?
00:50:38
Speaker
It startled me really. Yeah. It's a very one-sided clickbaity as Kate has said, there's nothing new. I mean, I think everybody's kind of gone vegan has read stuff like this. It shows, I mean, the ultimately what it says is a poorly planned diet is poor.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yeah. And if it's vegan, it has these risks. If it's a poorly planned omnivorous diet, it has these other risks. I think, um but this is what adults should know, right?
00:51:07
Speaker
This is, you know, this is just the basics, right? you need You need to take care of yourself. You need to have a balanced diet. And if you're plant-based, you need to maybe over-index on B12 vitamin D and et cetera, et cetera. I think most vegans know this. If you're an omnivorous person, you need to over-index on X, Y, Z because you're probably not, you know, like like stuff like fiber, for example, which a lot of a lot of omnivorous diets don't think in those terms, yeah?
00:51:35
Speaker
we've already We've already had the green stamp from among Amongst other organizations, the NHS and the British Dietetic Association, who said that, and ne abroad as well, organizations abroad, have said that the vegan diet is perfectly fine if it's well-planned, which is what they would say about an omnivorous diet as well.
00:51:56
Speaker
nobody Nobody's there saying, well, if you if you're omnivorous, you're safe. know You can go and eat a greasy McDonald's burger for every meal and you'll be fine. Don't worry. The person, the man in Super Size Me, it was he wasn't really doing it.
00:52:11
Speaker
Yeah, if it's poorly planned, it's poorly planned. If we eat crap, you feel like crap and your health will be crap. And you can certainly have a very poor plant-based diet too. And and putting this emphasis on pregnant and lactating women and children doesn't make any sense either because they're, whatever your diet is, they're the two groups that need to take care of their diet more.
00:52:37
Speaker
regardless of what restrictions they have on their diet or not. Children are growing, are developing. They need to have a wide array of nutrients and vitamins. Lactating women and pregnant women, the same.
00:52:50
Speaker
So there there's nothing really new. You know vegans out there listening to this or plant-based dieters, you did some research before you became one, I'm sure. Just keep planning your diet.
00:53:01
Speaker
You know, just include, you know, pieces from everything. And if you don't think you can meet your B12 criteria through food or the other fat vitamin, you know, just take a supplement like most people do. So there is a little quote, isn't there, from somebody from the Vegan Society, but it is so small.
00:53:18
Speaker
And they the British Dietetic Association as well. Reducing animal-derived foods and choosing a range of plant-based foods. Plant foods can be beneficial to the planet, animals and our health.
00:53:30
Speaker
you know um so they they do support like you a well-planned vegan diet and yet there's also a positive statement from the nhs as well but they put in enough organizations that are anti and kind of kind of panic panic panic that it puts doubt into people's minds and as soon as especially at a time when people are pregnant, everyone gets super, super worried. Well, rightly, because you're bringing a new life into the world. And and then the often, you know, or sometimes um the default is to go back to what you know, because that feels safe.
00:54:09
Speaker
But really and truly. One of the people on who who is quoted about meat being so wonderful is somebody called Professor Frederick Leroy, and he's actually heavily involved in the meat industry. There's all kinds of biases all the way through, I think.
00:54:27
Speaker
and Even the bit where it's talking about B2 riboflavin, I had a little look. So they they they they they flag up milk as being so, so important for getting this vitamin but actually you still you need to drink a litre of milk to get enough to color your cover your daily needs but if you have ah litre of plant-based milk that has that has been fortified you need to drink less than half a litre of milk trust me They don't say that.
00:55:03
Speaker
So it's kind of, um I don't know. And you've got the thing about protein, getting awful hair and skin if you don't get enough protein. Well, there's very, very few people in this country that are of protein division, aren't they?
00:55:16
Speaker
And B12, you know, it's a sin to take a supplement. Oh, yeah, the b two that's been it. That's been supplemented in cereals for a gazillion years, you know, but that's OK.
00:55:28
Speaker
And that's for for everybody. Everybody in the whole population that eats their Weetabix or whatever, they're getting it. know Again, it's just so biased. and try to get people working.
00:55:41
Speaker
That's all. So ah yeah, like you said, Charles, everybody just carry on being awesome and bringing awesome vegan kids into the world that are fit and active and just full of life and energy. And yeah, we all do need to be careful.
00:55:57
Speaker
We all need to think about what we need to eat. And if anybody is at all worried that they think they might have an iron deficiency or something, It's the same whether you're vegan not vegan. Your risk for an iron deficiency is exactly the same.
00:56:10
Speaker
There's loads of stuff on the Plant Based Health Professionals website. Go and have a look. And if you're seriously worried, go and see your doctor if you've got something wrong with you. you know Honestly, most people are absolutely fine. Most vegans are absolutely fine. So long as they're not just eating chips and ketchup, then we're all just mean. Yeah.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah, indeed indeed. Very wise, very wise. But yes, not a particularly enjoyable read that article, but hopefully you've you've gleaned something from hearing our analysis of it.
00:56:43
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:57:36
Speaker
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00:57:51
Speaker
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00:58:03
Speaker
Thank you so much to Anthony and Carlos for your brilliant contributions. Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Kate and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:58:22
Speaker
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00:58:37
Speaker
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00:59:03
Speaker
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00:59:24
Speaker
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00:59:39
Speaker
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