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Outdoors At Night: Summer Series - On The Ground Parenting Podcast Episode 5
39 Plays2 months ago
Bear down...at the end of the driveway!? On the Ground Parenting this week goes Outdoors At Night! Sandy, Sam, and Kelly explore the unique experience of getting outdoors after dark. I read that bears are attracted to the smell of people who don't subscribe to our podcast...just saying.
They dive into the anxiety associated with nighttime, from spooky sounds to a fear of bears. The hosts offer books like "Just a Walk" and "Wake Up Night" and practical advice to help both children - and parents! - get over their fears.
The episode provides actionable ideas for making night exploration fun and safe, from using flashlights and laying on a trampoline to stargaze to the appeal of food cooked over a fire. The hosts discuss the importance of involving children in the cooking process, building patience and providing opportunities for important safety conversations. They close with a reminder that these nighttime adventures create lasting memories and build a strong relationship with the outdoors.
In This Episode
[01:01] Books that help with worries about getting outdoors.
[02:05] Overcoming fears of the dark for both kids and adults.
[05:18] Humorous encounters with nighttime wildlife.
[08:48] Helping children through their outdoor worries.
[11:50] Fun activities for nighttime, like trampolining and hammocks.
[13:43] The enticing nature of cooking food outdoors at night.
[18:22] Using natural consequences to teach life lessons.
[19:22] Why nighttime outdoor adventures create lasting memories.
Connect with Us
If you enjoyed this episode and want to sponsor or support the show, or even ask a question of our hosts, visit the Central Hub at
https://linktr.ee/onthegroundparenting
On the Ground Parenting is produced, engineered, and published by Red Juice Studio. To learn more, visit
https://www.redjuicestudio.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Acknowledgement
00:00:00
Speaker
Today's episode of On the Ground Parenting is made possible by the generous donations of our listeners. To learn more, look in the show notes or listen to the end of the episode.
Welcome to On the Ground Parenting
00:00:34
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to our podcast, On the Ground Parenting. We are Muskoka Family Focus, the parenting education team. I'm Sandy and I'm joined by... Sam Ennis Wallace.
00:00:48
Speaker
And Kelly Armstrong. I'm so glad you're here with me. And welcome to our conversations about parenting from your house to ours, the Blue House Muskoka Family Focus.
Starting Outdoor Discussions with 'Just a Walk'
00:01:01
Speaker
We've been talking about getting outdoors and I'm just going to put my co-hosts on a little bit of an edge and say, I'm going to start with some books.
00:01:12
Speaker
The books I think are going to help us launch into what we want to focus on this time. The first book is called Just a Walk, written by Jordan Wheeler.
00:01:24
Speaker
And in this book, this young boy starts off and he leaves his house and he goes on a walk and things happen. Things that every parent would be... panicking over and he just carries on and it's preposterous. It's incredulous and it's crazy, ridiculous.
00:01:42
Speaker
And every child would love all of the things that occur. And when the boy arrives home and his mother says, where have you been? She was worried. And he says, I'm o okay, mom.
00:01:53
Speaker
I just went for a walk. So getting outdoors, what are some things that parents might be worried
Facing Fear of the Night Outdoors
00:02:00
Speaker
about? Or what are some things that kids might be worried about? getting outdoors?
00:02:05
Speaker
I think a hurdle for getting outdoors is trying to embrace getting outdoors after the sun goes down. I think that's something that can be really challenging for folks because you can't see everything out there, so you don't know what that noise in the woods might be, or you don't know what you might come across. So I think that can be something that can be a hurdle for both children and adults.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, and that little tiny chipmunk can sound like, with a little bit of imagination and a little bit of fear, like a giant bear ready to eat your entire tent in one gulp.
00:02:40
Speaker
So based on what you've already been talking, you know, those nighttime worries, the sounds and everything, i have another book to share with you. And it's called Wake Up Night.
00:02:51
Speaker
And the exciting thing about this book, well, first of all, it's a glow in the dark book. So it's a great book to be reading outside in the nighttime. You know, you can activate it with a flashlight or something like that.
00:03:02
Speaker
We need to talk about flashlights in kids because that's a big hit. But this book actually helps children understand what is happening outside, what critters are out there, why they're out there, what they're doing.
00:03:17
Speaker
and it helps us then to maybe mention what kids are doing during the day and the sounds they make. They could be disturbing those animals that are sleeping during the day that are awake at night.
00:03:28
Speaker
But besides that, we have to find ways to help our kids maybe get over that. Or maybe it's for us parents. Maybe we have a fear or a worry about going outside at night.
Personal Experiences with Nighttime Fears
00:03:41
Speaker
Have you ever had that to overcome yourself? So I think for me, definitely, because we live in Muskoka and If there's a bear outside one night, I'm probably going to be a bit fearful and cautious about going outside the next night. So I think ah a certain amount of awareness of the actual potential risks is probably really important.
00:04:01
Speaker
um But I've come to love to be outside at night now. um But it certainly was something that when I was younger or even before I had children, I would be very nervous about to an extent if I was by myself in particular.
00:04:15
Speaker
um So I think it it really put me in a position to be able to put myself where my kiddos might be worrying about what goes bump in the night or the shadows or what they can't see but maybe can hear.
00:04:27
Speaker
um And they I think everybody's comfort has certainly increased over time around here. It's lovely. I was thinking about all my nighttime experiences and trying to pick one or two to share.
00:04:39
Speaker
in terms of the noises, i was planning to go on a canoe trip and I was going to try to do hammock camping. and sleep in my hammock. So I was trying to get my system right.
00:04:50
Speaker
So that week I was sleeping in my own backyard, trying to figure out, is this going to keep me warm enough? Is this comfortable? And I came in because there was what sounded like a fierce monster in my backyard.
00:05:03
Speaker
Turns out it was a porcupine who thought my garage was delicious. But once you hear it and you start thinking about it, you hear every sound in the bush and And porcupines, to my knowledge, have not eaten me or anyone else.
00:05:18
Speaker
So it's funny how we get in our own minds. And there's sometimes outside, I can just go to sleep and it's fine. And times where once my brain gets a little toehold. And then I was thinking about another time when I was with a bunch of friends in a cabin in the woods.
00:05:35
Speaker
And it was 11 o'clock at night and it was time for me to go home. i had kids to put to bed or, well, they were put to bed, but I had to go home and, you know, function the next day.
Embracing Nighttime Outdoor Adventures
00:05:44
Speaker
And I hadn't really planned this part of my evening.
00:05:47
Speaker
i think I thought somebody would walk out of the bush with me, but that was not an option. So I was both afraid and uncomfortable and did it anyways. And it was the most gorgeous night where the snow had crusted really hard and the moon was out and there was giant shadows, which always makes me sing the Cat Stevens song about being followed by a moon shadow. And I will ah not sing it for you. i thought we were having a concert.
00:06:12
Speaker
I am not going to sing for you.
00:06:18
Speaker
So for me, that being outside at night can be so magical. Yeah, I think that what happens is, you know, when we can get over that fear and we we discover that magical moment, ah for me, I...
00:06:31
Speaker
I live in the woods too. And I live on the shore of the river, the Muskoka River. And so I have an abundance of wildlife here. Just the other day, i walked two thirds of the way on my road and I stopped because, you know, it could have been a bear in the ditch. It could have been a cub and so I backed up and I came back and now I am prepared ah so I have walking sticks and according to Mike McIntosh from Bear With Us you know the bear sanctuary and he talks about having the big plastic bags that you would just wave at the bears to deter them so I'm prepared I had all of that but I came back home
00:07:13
Speaker
And the next day when I drove out, I discovered that spot that I thought was a black bear, that is the bottom part of a particular kind of fern. And so there it was, my fern bear kept me back from my walk the other day.
00:07:28
Speaker
And on the river, I have otters that will come up on in the backyard. And if you know anything about otters, male otters have this social happening where they do poop dances. And so I've encountered a lot of different things like that. And yeah, maybe you worry about, you know, swimming in certain areas when you're outside and some of the beaches are closed for particular lengths of time because of the abundance of foul, fouling the water, the ducks and the geese.
00:07:59
Speaker
and So those are things that, um yeah, I have to get over myself before I can even become emboldened to share with my kids or my grandkids that, you know, how to be, you want to be savvy, you want to be wise, but you don't want to let your fear prohibit you from having fun or getting outdoors.
Living with Wildlife and Outdoor Safety
00:08:21
Speaker
We've been talking about being out at night and I set myself a challenge quite a few years ago. I decided that I wanted to get over this worry of what was out there in the night. And so I started walking when it was dark and I even set my alarm. I'd go out at two o'clock in the morning and it was so funny that I just wanted to help myself get over that fear that I had.
00:08:48
Speaker
But I think about children, how we can give it in small doses. So for your kids, when they've had a worry or a concern about something outside, how have you helped your children through things, situations like that?
00:09:02
Speaker
Well, here in this house, because everybody is so very much based in logic, we've just talked about the things. So we've talked about how You know, most wild animals are likely more afraid of us than we are of them.
00:09:16
Speaker
ah We had this interesting situation where we had a skunk living in our culvert because the culvert pipe has not seen water in I don't know how many years. So it's just this basically a cave under our driveway.
00:09:31
Speaker
So we had a skunk living in there and we would be outside having a little campfire and roasting some marshmallows and things like that. And you just hear this little rustling and you look over you and see the skunk. And then we would just acknowledge that our time in the yard was over and we needed to like relinquish it to the animal who probably needed to hunt for some food. So we put our fire out and we went inside. And I think being savvy in terms of being aware of the fact that we share the environment as well is also important um because we can have our campfire whenever, but those skunks like to eat at night. So we wanted to give him the space
00:10:06
Speaker
to be able to do that without um having a malodiferous situation happening in our house. So yeah, that was that. And again, small doses, doing things in bits and pieces. So going outside for a few minutes, usually if there's some draw, like a meteor shower or northern lights or something like that, it can be pretty exciting to go outside.
00:10:26
Speaker
which is helpful. Sometimes just, it's a beautiful night, let's go check it out. Or my favorite is when in the wintertime, the snow is really sparkly. That's a good way of getting people to come outside and explore why that might be. And you can have a conversation about why it's particularly sparkly that night.
00:10:43
Speaker
And I think those sorts of things have just added a bit of ease. I love that being in relationship with the skunk and relinquishing your backyard Because again, it's this dance of relationship and these creatures that live in our yard.
00:10:56
Speaker
I think we've started going outside more as August comes around in terms of exploring the night so that we're not adding up the discomforts. My kids generally don't like bugs and have a lower threshold of the zzz.
00:11:12
Speaker
kind of tolerance. So we would do our night hikes, walking down our trail a little bit and what can we listen to? And sometimes we're super lucky to hear an owl in our backyard, but picking the season where you're more likely to have good success, where it's not really tons of mosquitoes and it's not really tons of black flies.
00:11:32
Speaker
And even just laying down on a deck or on a porch on a blanket, just watching what might be going by and listening and using our our different senses has been a good sort of intro because you can do it in small doses and then you can go into your own bed and and tuck them in.
00:11:50
Speaker
I think the suggestions that you have about going outside, it reminded me of when we would go out on the trampoline. So our trampoline wasn't just for bouncing or jumping on or, you know, playing tag run around.
Fun Outdoor Activities for Families
00:12:05
Speaker
We would also go out there and we would lay on the trampoline and take a look at the night sky and It was a perfect platform for us to be out there and and watching the stars or if there was ever a meteorite shower, that was the place to be for us.
00:12:22
Speaker
And Kelly, you had also mentioned about a hammock. And I think how can we invite our family, our children, our our neighbors or, you know, um friends, kids to join us.
00:12:35
Speaker
And the hammock you have mentioned earlier is a great way to all lure people in. It's a comfortable swinging motion. It's almost like a cradle.
00:12:46
Speaker
And who doesn't want to get in and be nestled into a hammock? Yeah, ours have been such a draw both for exactly what you said, swinging two kids in them, three kids in them sometimes, solo time, reading a book, napping in them, laying and watching the stars.
00:13:04
Speaker
And all of my nieces and nephews have a hammock and that is their favorite. When can we set up our hammocks? When can we play and spend time in there? So combining, because we're talking about nighttime right now, combining something they really love and they're familiar with with something that might be more on their learning edge is a nice way to invite a different experience based on an experience that they love.
00:13:27
Speaker
I think that that's really something to build on for a family. That's that connecting that we really want to inspire. So that lure of comfort, then Sam, you had already mentioned this, and I want to ask both of you to explore this just a little bit further.
The Joy of Cooking Outdoors
00:13:43
Speaker
You were having s'mores on the fire, maybe roasting marshmallows. Food is another enticing way to get kids outdoors in the nighttime.
00:13:54
Speaker
How many of you have cooked over a fire in the nighttime? We love cooking outside. And whether it's over a fire or if it's on the barbecue, it really provides a lot of opportunity for doing things in a different way.
00:14:07
Speaker
oh Something we learned camping when my kids were younger was that it didn't really matter if they didn't eat their dinner, because if you're having a campfire, there's going to be food later.
00:14:17
Speaker
There's going to be s'mores. There's going to be maybe a hot dog if your kiddos like hot dogs. um We also would try heating up interesting different things. So my older son loves an apple roasted over the fire. He'll stick that apple on a stick and just sit there patiently roasting it.
00:14:34
Speaker
And that is such an amazing way of getting kiddos to really explore a to push their edge in terms of what they can do for themselves for feeding and B, also just to give them that little lure because who doesn't love something cooked over the fire? i think it's just, it's a totally different flavor, a completely different independent experience because they can do most of it themselves.
00:14:58
Speaker
So we love cooking outside. that the same for you, Kelly? Yeah, I think our kids will go anywhere. i mean, now they're adults, but they still will go anywhere as long as their food.
00:15:09
Speaker
and Sometimes we'll do an entire outdoor event based on cooking on the fire. Like you make your fire, you cook something. It's all the same kinds of things that Sam already said.
00:15:20
Speaker
Although I've been hearing, you know, in the sammo so social media world about folks doing roasted cheese and more of like savory s'mores. So I've been thinking about how to incorporate that into our next outdoor adventure.
00:15:36
Speaker
oh there's always... one more way to explore a new food adventure, right? Yeah. The other one we've been playing around with lately, just in the last few years are those pie iron things. So that heavy metal, it looks a little bit like a waffle iron.
00:15:54
Speaker
You put bread in it and then something in the middle. And so it could be savory, like pizza. We make pizza pockets or grilled cheese, or it could be dessert, like pie filling.
00:16:07
Speaker
I guess that's why they're called pie irons. And that's, that's been fun. They're heavy. They're a little bit of a different experience. They require a bit more patience than a flaming marshmallow.
00:16:18
Speaker
And it's fun to just see the different approaches that the kids have as they load them up. But that's been a really fun way to spend an evening and eating, of course. Yeah, the cast iron ones that we have are actually, they're about 40 years old and they are in the shape of hot dogs. So that's how they started. they And you would put the bread in and the hot dog and then bread on top. And it was a lovely crusty roll around the hot dog. And you're right, there's a different kind of patience that arises when food is being cooked over the fire. So that's another interesting outcome as well too.
00:16:55
Speaker
That when kids are cooking their own meal or they're contributing to making it, you know, putting the s'more together or something, then there's a different sort of engagement in that process.
00:17:08
Speaker
I was just going to say, it's also another opportunity to talk about using practical sense and being safe because... I mean, who hasn't thought as a flaming marshmallow went flying through the air when someone waved around trying to get it to extinguish that maybe this a conversation we should have about what you don't do with your marshmallow when it catches on fire.
00:17:29
Speaker
So I think it just provides more opportunities ah to have conversations about how to manage yourself in those situations and also, you know, lots of good practical learning.
00:17:43
Speaker
and And, you know, I think that goes back to the earlier point that we had about the the intention and the preparedness, the planning that we have as an adult. So even anticipating that we're going to be around fire, it might be beneficial for us to talk about safety.
00:17:59
Speaker
I remember when my children were young, we would have chairs around the fire. It was a rule. When you wanted to walk around the fire, it was on the outside of the chairs. It was never between the chair and the fire.
00:18:11
Speaker
As an adult, then we begin to think about all those other things that crop up, as you mentioned, Sam, like safety. What safety features do we need to talk about when we have a campfire?
Teaching Patience and Magic Moments Outdoors
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, i love that. And the other one that bubbled up as Sam was chatting was natural consequences. Some folks are really good at roasting their food over a fire. Some folks, the patience isn't there and it's undercooked.
00:18:35
Speaker
Or perhaps they're, you know, very committed to the flames. What do you adults know? I know the flame is where it's at. And I think that's another unfolding, a chance to have some conversations about what you put into something is what you get out of it. And and think about how many extras you're going to have so kids get a second chance.
00:18:56
Speaker
But also, when are the second chances gone? It's a little bit of a dance. What do you want to teach? What's your but' your plan? And also, when you put in too many marshmallows, what are you going to get out of that little child?
00:19:10
Speaker
ah Always being mindful about that as well, too. Maybe everyone will have their three marshmallows and when they're gone, they're gone. Limits, right?
00:19:22
Speaker
So anything else that you want to comment on about the importance of getting outside and getting outside during the nighttime? I think there's something just so magical and special about the nighttime. It adds a whole different dimension, whether it's roasting marshmallows over a fire or whether it's a walk.
00:19:41
Speaker
It helps kids and families build memories. And if you look at Gretchen Rubin has an entire book or called The Happiness Project, where she does all this research on what makes people happy. And one of the things is having good memories and looking back on them. And I find the small people that I spend time with, they remember the nighttime memories, I think, way more than the other memories.
00:20:06
Speaker
And so I think it's a big deposit in our relationship bank when they have this. Remember the time that we did this at night? Remember the time that the night owl, you know, was calling when I was in my tent? They will remember it for a long time.
00:20:21
Speaker
You're so right, Kelly, because i think I mentioned it in a previous podcast, but we went outside to lay on the trampoline once to watch a meteor shower, and it was very buggy and not very meteor shower-y.
00:20:32
Speaker
And my youngest son still sometimes comments on the lackluster meteor shower that I forced him to... suffer through when he was getting eaten alive by mosquitoes. So although it's a it's a very comedic memory for us now, just the his turn of phrase and everything else was just so on point for such a young fellow that it just has been kind of, sort of become a core family memory now. So now when something is less than we want, we often call it lackluster, just in the and memory of that situation. so
00:21:05
Speaker
For my kids, it's the tradition of a walk on Christmas Eve. So, you know, after we have whatever kind of a dinner we're having, and we always talk about that in advance, how we're going to be together. And then usually there's some type of a story or a poem that's read and we go out for a walk. And when they were younger, and especially when they were teenagers, you know, they would have all their little side comments about, you know, or having to go outside.
00:21:33
Speaker
But it's a fond memory now and they are repeating this tradition with their families. So it's exciting to see that happen. Anything else pop up for you that you want to share before we say farewell?
00:21:45
Speaker
I just think I would like to encourage everybody to just get outside, even if it's for
Encouraging Nighttime Family Explorations
00:21:51
Speaker
five minutes. Take yourself outside, take your children outside. Encourage your partner, if you have one, to go outside with you.
00:21:58
Speaker
um it can just really reset your day and give you some warm, fuzzy feelings. For me, I want to say get outside when it's a full moon and howl!
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, for me, explore the night. Even if you're a little bit uncomfortable, enjoy it, especially the full moon. Maybe even plan a full moon picnic.
00:22:21
Speaker
Listen for the owls. Listen for the whippoorwills. We might still have some in Muskoka. Thanks for joining. Get outdoors in the nighttime. you next time.
00:22:52
Speaker
On the Ground Parenting is a production of Muskoka Family Focus Parent Education Program. If you enjoyed this episode and want to sponsor or support the show, or even ask a question of our hosts, visit the Central Hub at linktr.ee forward slash on the ground parenting.
00:23:08
Speaker
On the Ground Parenting is produced, engineered, and published by Red Juice Studio. To learn more, visit redjuicestudio.com forward slash non-profits. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next Wednesday On the Ground Parenting.
00:23:26
Speaker
I was resisting making owl noises for most of this. Good one. That's perfect.