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Joker: Folie à Deux
26 Plays8 months ago
Who's the real joker in this podcast- Arthur Fleck or the three hosts forcing themselves to watch this trainwreck? Put on your clown makeup and buckle up for the wild ride.
We do not, nor do we claim to, own the rights to this film in any way, shape, or form.
TW: sexual assault, domestic violence, mental hospitals, bad mental health treatment, murder, violence, gun violence
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Transcript
Introduction and Trigger Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, by the way, everyone, big trigger warnings for a lot of stuff. it In the description, you can read it, alright? Stay safe. Stay safe.
Critique of Joker 2
00:00:07
Speaker
This movie was a total failure because they didn't include... I'm the Joker, baby!
00:00:32
Speaker
Yes, Ed. Mmm, direct me more. Mmm, I'm not editing this one. a You can keep that in if you want. Yeah. Who cares? Hello, everyone. ah Welcome to Reshoot, an average guide to get her film. Two jokers trying to narrate this opening at the same time. Oops, we're all jokers. It's it's the mom edit. It's the made up movies I did. The mom cut is here. The mom cut. Release the mom cut. Yeah. I am one of your hosts.
00:01:05
Speaker
ah Arthur. i am another I'm another one of your hosts, Harley. I'm the Joker, baby! I'm i'm im Hector. em And Ed.
Podcast Purpose and Joker 2 Synopsis
00:01:16
Speaker
In this podcast, we take movies that we like, dislike, somewhere between, and we make corrections, fixes, and we make them objectively better.
00:01:24
Speaker
object today we are doing uh i'm gonna butcher this joker folia adieu you forgot what yeah do ahah do you joker for leah do yeah for lea poopu but the can we abstract this for the doo-doo, for the dee- Folly, Folly doo-doo. I know. Folly off-doo. Nailed it. Fall out, poo-poo. I actually watched that, though. It is not that the show is not poo-poo. Joker, fall out, that was just the Snyder cut ending. Ah, true. All right. Yeah, Joker 2. Joker 2. Yeah. I think, literally, for I know we say we shouldn't. I can give a quick synopsis. OK.
00:02:08
Speaker
It starts off with, I'm gonna be a little snippy here. It starts off with character aggression. Arthur's depressed. He didn't learn anything. No, no, no, no. It doesn't start with, ah it it doesn't just start with that. It starts out with a Looney Tunes-esque little animated bit where his shadow, where he's like combating with the shadow. Then it cuts into the movie and it never does that again. I mean, as a Looney Tunes girly,
00:02:31
Speaker
Mm, you're Mr. Shot. I get it, animation, but like... Saz Lab cancels all animation just to hire him back for this one film. The man should be fired. Stop pussyfooting around. If you're gonna do a little bit of animation, add a little more animation in. I don't know. Grow up. Yeah. I want my Looney Tunes. So, we're gonna movie. After the Looney Tunes bit... After Looney Tunes bit, thank you.
Joker and Harley's Relationship
00:02:56
Speaker
He... He's all depressed, but he gets permission from the...
00:03:01
Speaker
from what's the name of the actor Jackie the the the the guard the guard from ah ah from the Banshees of Inner Sharon. Oh! liam Thank you. Brendan Gleason. Brendan Gleason. So he goes, so he's like, yeah, I like singing. You like singing. I'm going to put you in the choir group. He meets, I don't remember. Harley. Her name is Harley. I thought it was just Lee. No, she goes by Lee, but her name is Harley Quinzel. Same name. Yeah. And she's like, yeah, I burnt my family alive.
00:03:36
Speaker
She just torched the apartment and then her parents institutionalized her. Well, I think she said she killed her dad. Her dad was dead. Yeah. But yeah, she's like, I did all this because I want to be like you. And then they try to escape. It doesn't work. He's about to go to court because they want to put a death penalty on him. But at the same time, he has a lawyer who's like, no, no, the Joker's a distinct personality.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, they keep doing multiple multiple personality disorder defense, which I don't know, it made no sense. It's now known as dissociative identity disorder. Yes, but this it does take place in the 80s before dissociative identity disorder was renamed. That's very recent.
00:04:17
Speaker
like also this is like ride ah the timeline this is like right after it got diagnosed because it's so sensational it was like a lot of people didn't believe it existed sorry i'll butt out no no you're fine but yeah uh so that happens the movie ruined there's a big court fight uh harley sleeps with joker says she's pregnant basically he gets all so he he fires his harley convinces him to fire his lawyer he decides to go on trial defend himself as the joker
00:04:51
Speaker
um Um... He makes fun of the body of his prison guards. And then when he comes back one night, they they assault, they sexually assault him. And then they also kill his one friend in prison. And that, that makes him sane. And he's, well, I get the realization, the real meaning of it. Like, oh, okay. it He realizes that he can't, you know, like no one's there for him, even as a joker. So he wants to be Arthur again. And then Rice is about to be sentenced for the death penalty.
Joker's Trial and Mental Health Themes
00:05:21
Speaker
Karban goes off. Harley leaves him because he said, told everyone, I'm not Joker, I'm just Arthur. They help him escape. He goes to talk to Harley, who bought his apartment, and then she's just like, no, I don't love you anymore. And then he gets arrested.
00:05:37
Speaker
And then the guards are like, hey, there's a guest for you. And then as they're walking, ah this sociopath the psychopath like prisoner, who's been in the background a little bit here and there, goes up, stabs Arthur a bunch of times with a shank with a glass shank, and then cuts a smile into his own face in the background, implying he's the real Joker. Arthur is not.
00:05:59
Speaker
He's just the guy who gave the idea for the Joker. And that's where the damn movie ends. And he gives himself a Glasgow smile. Yes, you know. He's the best Joker ever. yeah That's not Mark Hamill though, Ed. Mark Hamill never did that. No, its Ledger. I'm just saying like... Yeah, i' I'm just giving you shit. He's the best live action. Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, that's the movie, guys.
00:06:24
Speaker
it's depressing don't watch it oh you didn't even mention the musical numbers yeah i was about to say that yeah i sprinkled throughout the movie are uh songs about love uh a lot of them are kind of gosply usually he's singing or he's always singing sometimes harley's there she's mostly there uh It's a jukebox musical, and what that means is that people who, it's songs from other places, they just,
Musical Numbers Critique
00:06:53
Speaker
it's just a bunch of covers. None of these songs were original, I'm sure. There was one that was made by Lady Gaga, and it was not, and it was only instrumental. What? It was during the dancing scene. That's really dumb. It's really stupid. No, there's one. So Build a Mountain isn't one of them? No, Build a Mountain is not one of them. Build a Mountain, I think, is a gospel. Yeah, I think it's a gospel song.
00:07:13
Speaker
um I recognize actually a handful of songs, which says a lot about my music taste. no They sounded familiar. Yeah, no, a lot of them. I could like, what the world needs now is love. I'm going to stop so we don't get copyrighted. This is podcast copyright. I know. Let me just the joke. Joker, baby.
00:07:39
Speaker
so Let's run it to the ground, just like Todd fell in front of his good will into the ground. yeah All right, who I'm going last. Yeah, I'm just gonna say Cesar. What? Oh yeah, who's the Cesar for this? I figured this was an anniversary one. Okay, sure. It should be you. All right, sure. So I picked this movie for a few reasons. One, I heard i saw the D minus cinema score and I'm like, ooh, this is gonna be juicy.
00:08:06
Speaker
He was so excited out of all three of us the most excited and then he comes out of the theater the most angry. Yeah. Okay, hold up, hold up. Did both of you hate the movie like beginning to end? He hated the movie a lot more than I did. I just thought it was bad and I did not enjoy it. He hates it. I genuinely, the third act ruined any goodwill. I'm not even gonna watch the Hangover movie because I don't want to support Todd Phillips. Damn.
00:08:32
Speaker
That's how bad it is. I might give this movie the highest grade of us three for the first time ever. No, you've done it before. No, yeah, that was Care for Wellness. I'd rather watch Care for Wellness than watch this again, genuinely. Care for Wellness is a genuinely good movie. No, it's not. No, it's not, bud.
00:08:50
Speaker
oh but
00:08:54
Speaker
no you don You're joking on your spit there, huh? I'm joking on my spit. but show up I'm the spit, baby! Wait. Pick someone Hector. Okay, I just want to say, one, that was the D-mine cinema score, Juicy. Two, this was ah Joker 1 was our first episode. If you go way back and listen, maybe don't. You don't have to. It was God, we were all babies. Three, it lines up. a rep By the time it starts to release us, it should be our fourth year as a podcast. So, congrats to us.
00:09:23
Speaker
Also, true to reshoot form, in the first Joker episode, I've fallen told that this was Ed's pick, and now I'm falling told that it's your pick. So next time we have to... Next time, when it's Joker 3, it has to be my pick. There is no Joker 3. It is, Ed, remember? do You didn't stay for the post credits where he wakes up and then you see Mark Hamill in really bad makeup going, uh...
00:09:48
Speaker
Ah, welcome to the Joglerverse. He's like, well, I was saying, welcome to the Joglerverse. And then he just hit it. And then he grabs him and there's an electric buzzer and he gets to ride. I shouldn't write movies. And yet here
Humor and Light-hearted Banter
00:10:03
Speaker
we are. Yeah, here we are. Yeah, we're not writing movies, we're reshooting movies. We're reshooting movies. So I say, you know what, Ruthie, go first. What I liked about this movie, audience, I need you to hear me out with this like, but it's a big like.
00:10:17
Speaker
And it's gonna sound fucked up, but I have to say it. I really liked what they did with Harley. I liked that she wasn't, ah her origin story in this wasn't as much as a damsel in distress as comic book accurate Harley Quinn, where she was tortured by Joker. And then they have that like abusive dynamic in that way. I get it, abuse bad.
00:10:47
Speaker
But I liked that she was a compulsive liar. I liked that she was kind of damaged in that 2010s, edgy teenager kind of way, where she was kind of, or she was on par with him and you couldn't, you could kind of tell she was always lying in the way that manipulative, I hate to say it, like manipulative women who tend to be mentally ill are.
00:11:17
Speaker
I say manipulative people lie like that. Or is there a way, a special way women do it that I've never really fully caught up to? There's a... ah I haven't seen a guy do it the way I've seen many women do it. Okay. And I don't know how to quantify it. I'm not saying it's like a gender thing. I guess I kind of am technically, but like,
00:11:39
Speaker
women tend to be socialized more to yeah use their words as if guys use their strengths. It's just these little things that she would do where she's like, yeah, we absolutely grew up in the same neighborhood. Yes, we, I also ah may or may not have injured, like, you know, I set a fire to my parents' place, may have killed my mom, wink.
00:12:05
Speaker
Oh, yes. We slept together one time. Now I'm definitely pregnant. I don't know. It's just that progression. I don't know. I thought it was really good. She also did a really good job singing.
00:12:17
Speaker
um Would you say she's a fem cell? She's not a fem cell. Okay, because our friend Armand, he's mentioned fem cells a few times and I've looked into what that means.
00:12:31
Speaker
but don't worry about it. A fem cell is going to cut kind of like an insult but not really. They're gonna either expect a man to sweep them off their feet or they're in the all men are trash camp. Okay. She's not expecting Joker to sweep her off her feet quite in the same way a fem cell will. She's just writing his coattails and they're gonna like don't push them down so she can get on top.
00:12:58
Speaker
I don't know, I think she just- She was in love with the idea of Joker, not Fleck. Yeah. Aren't we all in love with the idea of Joker? Yeah, kinda like how-
00:13:13
Speaker
How, what's his face? Tyler, the creator responded to some girl yelling, I love you. He's like, you don't love me.
Joker's Character Development
00:13:22
Speaker
You're in love with with the idea of me. And that's what Harley was. She was in love with the idea of the Joker. I love Tyler. And then getting close, she kind of like learned that this isn't what I want, but she was also being extremely manipulative.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's like my biggest like out of the movie. um the I'm gonna build a mountain like sequence. That's like my favorite of the the musical bits. And when she sets fire to the the movie night. yeah Yeah, yeah. Honestly, the first act is really good. Second act is mid and then third act is trash.
00:14:01
Speaker
um
00:14:04
Speaker
Deadass, the guy in, okay, after the car bomb goes off and Arthur leaves prison, there's a guy that looks exactly like Joker from Joker 1. Deadass, I thought that was supposed to be like him having like a mental breakdown. It's like, oh, I'm the Joker. You thought you were, but you're not. You're lame. You're just Arthur. I'm the Joker, baby.
00:14:33
Speaker
Anywho, that's neither here nor there. um Yeah, that's all the likes I can really think of right now. I think that's more than me. ah Dislikes.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't like the legal stuff. You can have really good, compelling court cases. This wasn't it, Chief. It felt kind of slapped together.
00:14:59
Speaker
um the the music was the music out of this musical was kind of mid they could have invested a little bit more effort into like maybe one or two original songs or like just a little bit of time and effort trying to find stuff that fits a little bit better it kind of felt like suicide squad one where all the songs were kind of basic surface level or like, i ah paint it black and black Adam. It kind of just felt shoehorned in because, oh, well he's black Adam and there's military just. Paint it black. Paint it black should have been this film. That should have been when he was putting on his Joker makeup to get to court.
00:15:41
Speaker
You know, supposedly James Gunn handed some notes. I wish. It was just like, a it was, this was above his board. This yeah cause this is before. Yeah. Yeah. But he supposedly handed some notes, face off some stuff he was hearing and Todd Phelps ignored it. And God, I bet half it would have been really good music. Yeah, no, he would have. Because he was the one who kind of popular, well, not popularized it, but he was the one who kind of brought it into and to vogue with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Can I give a random number of chances? You should know how to write comic book movies. Yes. He's the only one that knows for some reason. You know it'd be really good now that James Gunn's in DC. Like, have like a smaller budget film. Have Music Meister be the villain. His whole thing is he makes everyone sing and dance with James Gunn.
00:16:31
Speaker
a La La Land-esque rom-com, but it's music maestro. Oh, he's a bad guy. You don't have to stop him. But still. Yes. But still. Yes. No, it would genuinely be such a fun. I don't know. It'll never happen. I split it down the world. It's never going to happen. Batman and Wonder Woman. La La Land musical, music maestro. I'm going to be real with you.
00:16:55
Speaker
You don't chip it? No, only the Justice League cartoon. i kind I tend to like Batman Catwoman a lot more. Valid, okay. there i That'd be fun. That would be fun. Anyhoo. Uh, you know what's not fun? Joker 2. Ayo! I almost forgot we were talking about Joker 2. Sorry. Oh, it's fine. Let me see. I talked about the courtroom.
00:17:20
Speaker
Joker didn't feel like the same Joker of Joker 1. and Yeah, he just didn't feel like the same person cuz like in one he's so like in and out of reality but in this movie he's always in reality and I get that's like supposed to be that he's on his meds but he says that he hasn't been taking his meds. You know the part when I realized his movie was gonna be kind of sad was we only got him wearing the full Joker get up.
00:17:48
Speaker
when, uh, that's when I knew Todd Phillips really hated this character he made because he never made him wear the real, like, the green hair and everything until it was, like, an imaginary scene. He didn't, when he was in the courtroom, he, in the courtroom he still had his regular hair. Yep. No, you're right. Yeah.
00:18:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Um, the car bomb scene felt inaccurate. Why inaccurate? All right. I don't know. It just seemed a little too like, like the movie was trying to force you into reality. And that like took me out of the movie. Ironic. it It did its job. You stopped watching the movie. You stopped living in it. You went back to reality. Oh, there goes gravity. I thought the ending was really dumb. Kind of just shoehorned in there.
00:18:39
Speaker
He really don't want to make another sequel. It's weird because like this has kind of been itching in my head and I get that Joker's trying to do the like mentally ill defense but his lawyer's talking about getting him into a mental health facility but he isn't a mental health facility. A better one I think is what they mentioned earlier.
Debate on Mental Health Facility vs. Prison
00:19:01
Speaker
There was a sense of like a good one that actually knows what they're doing unlike these guys. It was very, like can you miss it?
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I kind of got that implication, but the way that it was kind of treated, I haven't been to a mental health place, especially back in the 80s. I didn't exist yet. But like shame. Yeah, how dare he? He is in a mental health jail waiting, awaiting trial. That's the difference. He hasn't he hasn't received a sentence. He was an Arkham Asylum, technically.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, but Technically, technically, I guess. Yeah, but I still feel like it still it's it's more it's more of like a halfway between An actual mental health facility, but they don't prison to my ah understanding That's not a thing that they do You're either in a prison or you're like you're in jail or you're in a mental institution and I think and that at this point in real life He would be in jail and the movie kind of treated it more like jail from what I understand of jail versus mental hospital and
00:20:08
Speaker
yeah i guess i guess so it could have been arkham jail it wasn't the asylum he he did he did visit the arkham asylum that's where he met lee it's in the same building yeah that's just a different it was a different one oh okay never mind i'm done cause it's also a normal meant there's a war for people who are criminals who are insane there's ones who are just like normal people and i'm using insane in the comic book terms everyone don't yeah like the the criminally or violent uh mental health mental insane people yeah and the non-violent mentally ill except harley got ah well again she's a liar but uh she admitted she said she admitted herself i don't know if i
00:20:50
Speaker
She didn't say she admitted herself at first. She said that her her mom got her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah But later, lawyer it's fun that that she did have admit herself in there. Yeah. Just to get to know, get to see him. Yeah. Which is like. What would I do to fix this
Creative Suggestions for Joker 2
00:21:08
Speaker
movie? Great question. ah More Looney Tunes bits. And would they go into the real world, a la Looney Tunes back in action?
00:21:20
Speaker
our space jam. Not really. I think I think what it would be is it it'd be like Joker's daydreams of like what he wants his new Joker life to to be like. He wants to be cool. And then he's like, always snapped back into reality. Oh, there goes gravity. He hits his head on the table and gets yelled at from the from the judge about falling asleep in court. But ah Let me see, I don't know make the the court case more interesting add a couple more charges cuz killing five people I don't know if it he's got garnered so much like Attention he also led a riot. Yeah, but he didn't get uh, yeah, he didn't get charged with the riot Yeah, he should also be getting charged with inciting a riot
00:22:10
Speaker
And also maybe, ah this is the 80s when gun control was starting to become a thing, ah bringing a, you know, ah carrying a gun with no permit.
00:22:25
Speaker
I don't know, they should be throwing the book at him, but it didn't seem like they were really throwing the book at him. Harvey's just like, we're gonna get him, he's not crazy. I don't care, I'm an old boy. Blow half my face off.
00:22:37
Speaker
Sometimes they don't charge people with everything Because it's easier to get people to convict with less charges usually Yeah, Like if if I was in that jury Knowing that he isn't being charged with everything in just the five murders And there's like video evidence of one of them I would convict. If there was other things like carrying a gun or all that, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't know. That's just my my justification for it. Yeah, I think that happens. No, I totally agree with you. That is a real thing that happens. And again, I just said I wanted like a better court thing. But but also it's also a movie. Sometimes they do charge them with bullshit things because the jury will also feel
00:23:35
Speaker
less guilty if they say not guilty for those little things and then guilty for the big things. They get them for jaywalking. They get them for choker walking. So yeah, I don't know. that's that's ah It depends on the jury selection.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, you're making a lot of like real world sense. I'm trying to just put my feelings into words. does so He fixed so. I feel like they would want to just throw the book at him though. Yeah, that would mean this is this is Reagan era. They've already like stripped down mental health care. If you're keeping in line with Joker one, it makes sense where it's like this man is violent and dangerous and insane. We can't have him in public. Yeah. And also, yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
What if he does drugs? He killed a beloved TV figure. Yeah, Reagan was an actor. They're gonna throw the book at him. Oh shit, you're right. I forget he's an actor.
00:24:45
Speaker
ah is that Is that why he fooled all of America with his yeah Reaganomics? okay Yes. he was ah yeah He was an actor, then he became a governor of California, then he became president.
00:24:57
Speaker
Hold up. So, by this logic, Arnold Schwarzenegger was not born in America. He was born in Austria. I know. I wish. I'd i'd have the Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall. Bye. Or you will be terminated.
00:25:26
Speaker
It's not a jelly bean. ah
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'd have I'd have a lot more breaks from reality. Let me see. me It was too obvious this time. I i mean, I get it. It's a double leg sword because like you can't do the same trick twice like that. But at the same time, it's so good. If you're following a unreliable narrator, why is he this time? Is he?
00:25:52
Speaker
Can you trust what you're he's seeing? You know, it it fell off. See, for me, I would just lean into the absurdity that can kind of come with mental illness. Like I said, with like Looney Tunes. Yeah. like Okay. Arthur's having another like breakdown again. Yeah.
00:26:08
Speaker
ah But like i want I'd want it to feel like, okay, this is a day where Arthur took his meds and you can actually like see his day progress and you get everything. But then like there's a day where he skips his meds, shit starts popping off. But he's trying to stay focused on it, Arthur. But like It's the the delusions, the disassociations that are pulling him out of reality again and again and again. And yeah, ah on the car ride home, I talked to Hector and we both had the same thought. ah The movie should have ended with however the hell he gets out of the courtroom. I don't like the car bomb thing. I thought it was really dumb. He goes to see Harley at the staircase and ah he like leans in for a kiss and she's like,
00:27:01
Speaker
you're not the Joker baby. And she pushes him off. And as he's falling down the stairs, she starts doing the Joker walk down the stairs. So she did, there's a deleted, there was a leak scene where someone was, could you know, because it's a pretty, it's a public area. Yeah. She was doing the Joker dance and the thing in the stairs. Yeah. They got rid, I don't know why they got rid, I don't know if it was before Arthur escaped, but it, I don't know.
00:27:29
Speaker
I guess he didn't want to retread it, but man, it would have been good. Or you could even have it as a delusion. He thinks he got out of the jail. ah He goes to see Harley, she pushes him down the stairs, and then he's in prison. He's not even in the mental institution. He's in prison now. Awaiting the sentence he knows is coming.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I... Am I the only one that didn't like Harley turning the Joker away? but mean Wait, wait, wait, like at the very end? Yeah. I did think it was dumb. It was a little, it kind of it needed a little more time. It gave too much credence to the therapist and the lawyers.
00:28:20
Speaker
idea that Joker was a separate personality. I think if she'd been, if anything, she should have been really confused by that. She should have been like, what no, because she would she isn't saying so well, no, she'd just be like, what do you mean Joker? Are you are you fucking stupid? There is no Joker.
00:28:41
Speaker
No, it's it's still Arthur. He's the Joker. There's not separate. He's the same guy. He's my beautiful twisted nightmare. And I love him. Quit giving me the brain rot of the Arkham Asylum ah subreddit. He's like, Are you stupid? I'm like, God damn it. All right. Officer balls. I will start with my legs.
00:29:05
Speaker
Lady gonger in this movie True. Yeah. No, she the the entire character of Harley and how she portrayed her great. I don't think anyone else could have done it like she did I Again walking Phoenix was phenomenal with what it was given I'm greeted disagree. I will I shut up um I'd like you to see a do a better job with the stuff that he was given I Do you want me to do it? Sure. Let's, let's green screen me over it. I'll do it. So I'm continuing. I'm speaking. I'm speaking um it podcast. We're allowed to interrupt.
00:29:47
Speaker
What was it? Sorry. Likes. Yeah. Those two things. Plus I also. Again, the first act of this movie was stellar. Amazing. Everything about it.
Music in Storytelling
00:30:02
Speaker
I love the Looney Tunes beginning and the Looney Tunes beginning with the shadow and me that that does give into the the ID kind of stuff, the multiple the two personalities, which I think is not not the best
00:30:21
Speaker
I'm going to stop right there because that just helped my brain. It just felt like it didn't fit with what had happened in the first movie. It felt disjointed. No, I see what you mean. It bridges the gap between the two. Kind of, but still. Janky, but there is a logic there. It completely foreshadows the entire movie, too. Oh, it does. I'm a fan of it.
00:30:48
Speaker
um I would keep that. ah And yeah, the beginning of the movie is really good. It really sets Arthur's mental state in in this institution. And yeah, how he's taking his meds and he's more of a reliable narrator this time around. but Everything and even the musical numbers made sense.
00:31:13
Speaker
right? At least for the first like act and maybe a little bit of the second act. But then
00:31:20
Speaker
I mean, in good musicals, like, I don't know, Sound of Music, Fiddler on the Roof, La La Land. I knew it! I knew it! I'm like, thermal's gonna be La La Land. um i didn' I didn't just want to say La La Land. but Again, top five movies still. the The music and the songs have something to do with the plot moving forward.
00:31:50
Speaker
or Maybe maybe it's just like Hold up. Maybe it's just like Ryan Gosling's first iteration of City of Stars where he's just walking around and how he's just like going through these thoughts after meeting Mia or a I'm sure Fiddler on the Roof has some song about like the past and moving forward and shit Ruthie yes Another thing that made this musical movie feel kind of weird was the fact that only Joker and Harley are the ones like dancing around in the real life when they're having those musical moments. No one else is interacting with them like in La La Land or Lim is where everybody's having a dance sequence around them. So funny you mentioned that. ah My issue with the musical
00:32:44
Speaker
is, and I forgot the rest of my like so I'm just like someone putting out, in good musicals too you can like use it to either not just show the story move foot forward but like you said just explain how they really feel in certain ways but when eight of the 12 songs I'm making the number up are about how we love each other we love each other I get it like no no little depth no little like nuance no nothing new to this angle of and new dimension to their love with I'm saying that with the biggest air quotes I can. um It's just the same. it's it's just felt It just felt like Lady Gaga in that one meetes movie with Bradley Cooper. It felt shallow.
00:33:22
Speaker
ah Bradley Cooper did really well in that movie though. Anyways, so it is a forgettable, however. um Yeah, these these musical numbers served nothing to the plot or nothing deeper ah into the character's minds at all after the first act. They're all just musicals to be musicals and to have Joaquin Phoenix in the Joker makeup. Yeah. And Harley in the Harley Quinn makeup, right?
00:33:54
Speaker
um And her makeup was really cool. I liked it. I wish I wish we'd have gotten the pigtails, but no I'm actually fine without the pigtails. I wanted them so fucking hard. I Don't know people get so weird about pigtails. You can make them cool pigtails. I Mean, there's that one joke in the original Batman and maid series where she's like you want to ride your Harley and like the oh my god i feel like the pigtails i mean she was wearing a nightgown and she had i think her pigtails any of that better no i mean yeah i didn't make the show i'm not feeling that but no it's it was yeah you know for kids so funny for kids for kids yeah
00:34:37
Speaker
Yeah, that the one of my biggest dislikes because I love musicals is the musical didn't the musical parts didn't seem to add into the story at all in any way shape or form. um there There should have never been a fucking a fucking courtroom drama part in this film at all. It felt wrong. It felt just bad in general.
00:35:02
Speaker
That's what I'm cutting um But yeah, I did I did like the progression of like Joker in the asylum Joker after he meets Harley Joker and Harley having their thing and then the third act is just bullshit um The second act when it lost me the second act the second act is when it when it when it started losing me Yeah, but the the once they step to the courtroom is when I'm like, what is it going on here? I?
00:35:30
Speaker
Third Act made me visibly upset for like the rest of the night, I swear. Visible disgust cockatiel picture. You were there. I mean, you were there. Yeah. You saw. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I found, I found an image of a cockatiel, uh, with a very weird face and it just says visible disgust under it and it's hilarious. I love it. Um, anyways,
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's about it for most of it.
00:36:03
Speaker
um
00:36:09
Speaker
ah So. My fixes. And I'll say this to preface, I think that this movie should have been. Even though the first movie did this for the most part,
00:36:24
Speaker
They should this movie should have been the solidification of Joker as the Joker like No, like the the destruction of Arthur Fleck and the real solidification of the Joker in this Is the thing that's what it should have been and I think the biggest catalyst for this should have been Harley Quinn and even though she kind of tried, it she didn't push hard enough, in my opinion, in the movie, she really wanted the Joker. So she was willing, she would be willing to do anything in her power to push him in that direction, to really feed into his his mental illness to get that part in basically. No, for sure. So
00:37:19
Speaker
I'm also I'll keep the musicals. I'll keep the musicals, but they have to make sense. Can we can we remove dancing in the moonlight? I love that song, but it felt like way moonachrony they're they're all originals. They're all going to be originals. All right. So I'm going to start the movie with that same 2D animation.
00:37:41
Speaker
But I wanted the ending of the 2D animation to to be more foreshadowing for the for the movie is to the shadow and Arthur to kind of like more fully merge together kind of thing.
00:37:55
Speaker
Like the shadow kind of like steps back into Arthur Fleck while the shadow has the makeup on his face and the makeup just kind of transfers into Arthur Fleck's face. Speaking like a true Jungian therapist. and and and And the shadow kind of doesn't, doesn't fall to the ground again. It stays on him basically. Like, you know, like the merger of that kind of those two together forever. And where you can't, you can't really tell the two apart anymore. It's one entity.
00:38:26
Speaker
um okay That is actually how d how sometimes dissociative identity is solved. You kind of try to get them to either accept each other or merge, which is more rare. And here's the crazy thing, the alt the the original person might not be the person who comes out of it. There's a someone on YouTube who has ah who like documented their progress with dissociative identity disorder. um going to take it with a grain I'm going to take it at face value, assuming that what what they've experienced is genuine, what they say is genuine.
00:39:00
Speaker
ah The person who came into it was not the the altar that was left there. ah Their protective self was the one that kind of like, no, that's fine. You you go on. I'll take care of it. It's a very interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. So the one that came out was the protective personality? that Yeah.
00:39:19
Speaker
the the maternal figure of the the altars. That's really interesting. I know, right? It's great. it Anyways, I will say, don't I wouldn't call it scary.
00:39:33
Speaker
Oh, the existential thing of like, because since I don't, I don't know what that feels like. This, the, the, the existential, like losing my identity and like somebody, basically somebody else taking over is scary to me. Valid.
00:39:57
Speaker
Who was I? All right. So the movie starts off after the 2D animation and we're going to jump straight into a musical number, something about feeling better, something about, you know,
00:40:14
Speaker
making progress. something Something good for Arthur, basically. We'll have Brandon Gleason sing also a little bit and do a little bit of dancing and a little bit of jiggy. yeah would have loved I also found out that Brandon Gleason is Donald Gleason's dad.
00:40:33
Speaker
oh yeah General Hux. I didn't know that. I'm not too surprised. Anyways, I know I i knew i like Donald Gleason for a reason.
00:40:46
Speaker
um
00:40:50
Speaker
Anyways, so after that musical number, we'll get that little bit of just like, you know, setting the scene, like jail, waiting trial. He's taking his meds, you know, just like the day the day in the life of Arthur Fleck in Arkham Prison or whatever, Arkham Asylum, I guess.
00:41:07
Speaker
um
00:41:10
Speaker
i don't know when when he when he hears ah because he does the He meets Lee pretty soon, right? Pretty early. Yeah. It's, uh, 20 minutes in. I want to 10, 20 minutes. He's being escorted to a meeting with his lawyer. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. About, about the, about the DID stuff. Yeah. So I'm going to keep all of that basically how he sees Lee and the, the meeting with the, the split personality thing. Um,
00:41:42
Speaker
Just to give it more musical energy, I might toss a musical in there too.
00:41:49
Speaker
That's like three songs in like 10 minutes, you sure? I mean, that's a lame is. Yeah, but lame is, is lame is. there Everyone makes an exception for that one. Also, I kind of got tired of it by the end. No, no, no, no musical number there. No, no, no. You say it plays out the same. And then after after that little interview with the psychologist,
00:42:11
Speaker
He goes back and he starts thinking about Lee and then that that's when he gets like, you know, he gets that treat of going to the singing thing. And basically it all plays out the same up until Lee setting the the thing on fire. Because I think after that is when it for me it really started.
00:42:35
Speaker
You know, I'll put a musical number in there when Harley sets the thing on fire, something about like early love or like, in arson you know, the the honeymoon phase of that sort of stuff like the basically the equivalent of a lovely night from La La Land, basically the little teasing thing, but everyone's dancing. And they do the the almost prison break together also, because I thought that was cool.
00:43:04
Speaker
um
00:43:08
Speaker
After that,
00:43:11
Speaker
I don't even know what happened in the second act. um It was just a courtroom. Well, yeah, they started the courtroom thing. Was that much? Yeah. Shit.
00:43:25
Speaker
and then Harley is taken out of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I want what I want is I want like more scenes of Arthur, like going to the singing thing with Lee.
00:43:40
Speaker
And this is when Lee Harley really starts to just like, get into his head and be like, where's that Joker that I that I fell in love with when I saw him out there? This sadistic man that could the only one that could please me. And my twisted mind doing her classic lying and shit. I'm gonna reverse the roles of like, comic book Harley Quinn and Joker. Yep.
00:44:11
Speaker
And yeah, I really want that to start happening and him like really start like skipping his meds because Harley told him to really like focusing in on that that point of his life that Joker personality not not not the Not the like delusions is Arthur, but like the the clarity he saw when he was the Joker kind of stuff. And we can have a little musical number in there when he's out on the prison grass of just like how things are looking up again this time, but kind of much darker. Yeah. give it Give it a sadder tone. Give it a minor key or some bullshit yeah a darker thing.
00:44:57
Speaker
but things are looking so up and stuff and like I feel so much better without taking my meds and such and then I want after that I want can I pause for a second yeah if hey audience of if you think this is a sign that I need to stop taking my meds don't keep taking audience you are still you when you take your meds yes thank you you you deserve a happy brain. You deserve your meds. Please take your meds. And if you feel like it's not good, talk
PSA and Trauma Discussion
00:45:31
Speaker
to your doctor. Don't just cold turkey it. Please don't cold turkey it. Just this is not a sign. No, this is this is the bad thing. If you're if you're if you're thinking this is a good thing, this is a bad thing. What I'm explaining right now. Yeah. All right. Keep going. ahead
00:45:47
Speaker
I wanted to after after that musical number of things are feeling better and stuff. I wanted to like really snap back and forth between Joker and Arthur and really work his way to building basically you know like that.
00:46:03
Speaker
that like army of people that he there's like his goons basically that work for him i learned to go around the prison and like switch into that Joker personality to really cool ah persuade them and or deceive them into helping him out kind of stuff. So he gets he gets his own little like posse there.
00:46:26
Speaker
And he, he switches back into the Arthur thing to kind of like, you know, protect himself and and keep things on the low from the guards and all that. Right. I also want, uh, so it's Joker, to the altar then. No, notice the trend here. Um, no, I'm noticing it. I just want to ask for, no.
00:46:49
Speaker
Okay, so it's it's you said to merge, right? It's a complete merge at this rate. Not yet. Again, they're searching back and forth. Okay, okay. Okay. And then I want him to basically be able to plan him his and ah Harley's prison break.
00:47:11
Speaker
oh shit i see what you're doing now So he he gets this bossy thing going and let's say that one of one of the One of the prison people that he really liked that the the kid that like was really into him in the movie Let's say that guy comes in and he actually gets released within that time so then he builds that coercion outside of the prison and he gets all the goons and and it's pretty easy because a lot of people already loved the Joker and got them at this point and Right. So when he's on his way to the first.
00:47:48
Speaker
ah On his way to to like the first ah court date. We'll have him do a little musical number in the car ride there. No, no real dance and just sing in there in the car ride. Something about breaking free and feeling complete. And then on the way there, they get ambushed and they break the Joker out of there. And Harley will say that Harley got released also earlier.
00:48:19
Speaker
And when that happens and the fucking riot breaks out, Joker knows where to go, where where he needs to go. And he goes up the stairs and he sees Harley up in the stairs, but in the middle of the stairs, kind of hands on our hips, in the full Harley Quinn red and black skirt and all of that and makeup. Are we doing the the the head the hat thing, the hood hat thing? No, pigtails.
00:48:47
Speaker
okay it tells us we're like doing we're not doing the harlequin cost no no no But she she will have like, you know, like a blouse and a skirt and like the black and black and red kind of stuff Like a sleeveless top with like a little knee-high skirt with the red and black pattern Okay hands on her hips like waiting for him when some heels and the little pigtails and Then he goes up there And he basically says like, my Harley Quinn, the Joker has come to claim you kind of stuff. And then Harley's like, see, I always knew it was only just the Joker in there. And then they do the Joker walk down the stairs together and movie ends. Okay, yeah. I was expecting you to
00:49:41
Speaker
have the origin story that Harley had for Joker. I thought it was going to end up where she attacked him and go ah toxic clown goo may or may not have been applied. No, Lee just manipulated him into Yeah, reverting back to the Joker personality and any he and they even playing a prison break thing. Still good. Yeah, that's fun. And yeah at the end, I want it to be very clear that like the Arthur thing is no more. It's only the Joker in here. And I want that to be made very clear on the musical number car ride before the ambush. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, all the musical numbers make sense and shit. It's a shorter movie, but who cares?
00:50:30
Speaker
It didn't have to be two and a half hours, that's real. It was two and a half hours long? Yeah. Yeah, mine'll be like 90 minutes. Yeah, that's fine. Lean 90 minutes. Doesn't have to cost 190 million. I'm gonna go on this tangent. Why the fuck did this movie cost 190 million dollars? Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga. No, Joaquin Phoenix's paycheck was 20 mil, Gaga's was 12 mil. That's still quite a bit. The songs couldn't have been that. They only used three sets, one street scene,
00:50:59
Speaker
I don't know what the hell. It costs so much. Todd Phillips' therapy budget. Why are we shitting on him? No. Huh? Why are we shitting on Todd? No. No, I'm shitting on Todd. I have like... I don't... I get what he was trying to do. I don't like how he did it.
00:51:25
Speaker
I think he took everything the worst possible way. The man's super depressing in every interview I hear about him on since Joker and Joker 2. Like, I don't know why he did this movie. that is then afflic whenever he did interviews when he was playing the batman the I mean, that was different. He was depressed and going through, like, he was depressed. He checked himself into, uh,
00:51:47
Speaker
um ah Rehab so like yeah, I wouldn't blame them there then and then Ben Affleck after that like They got back together with J. Lou Got married again, and they're divorced again already it's it's yeah because she owns an alcohol brand That was a rumor I heard and it's up there's a lot of conflicting things, but sometimes he might be a little messy, too I don't know um it's weird. They're almost soulmates not quite Yeah, though they're I think they're messy. I think that DeRosa is just messy in general. Who knows? i think But I'm sure her having an alcohol. I think celebrity marriages are usually just like not very good. Unless you're John Krasinski and Emily Blunt or Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively.
00:52:33
Speaker
like Oh, shit, yeah. i guess i get Well, they never got married. and Maybe that's the trick. Ryan Gosling and Eva Mendez. They're married. No, they're not. No, they're not married. They're not married. There's a rumor they're secretly married. They're not married. Anyway. They're in a long-term relationship together. Oh, OK. That's why Channing Tatum's marriage is also working because his wife is not a celebrity.
00:52:56
Speaker
and There's to up Tom Holland and Zendaya has been making it pretty far. Yeah, kind third they're not married yet. That's why it's work. That's why it works like rananggaing So Joker too. I'm gonna warn everyone. I'm gonna get a little ah depressing here. So just hear me out Well, I I asked because I don't want I may want to make sure people didn't hear me out and then be like Okay, I'm first and they're like fuck the rest of this episode. No, so here we go
00:53:28
Speaker
Uh, likes. I liked the first 45 minutes. That was actually kind of fun. I think the acting was solved from everyone.
00:53:38
Speaker
Um, trauma and parts being separate. The thing about trauma and having parts being separated and they're not reintegrated, which was a word they used in the movie. Reintegration is actually a thing in certain therapeutic theories of trauma. I'm reading about it in class right now. Uh,
00:53:57
Speaker
If you want a good book for trauma, I just want to throw this out there. I've been having to read one for class, and I think it'd be good for anyone who wants to kind of start healing from trauma, also use it with therapists. The Body Awareness Book for Trauma. Highly recommend that one. Mental Health PSA Over. Uh, my dislikes. I didn't like a lot of this movie. Actually, I'll add to the cinematography. It looked really good. The movie we looked gorgeous. It was nice to look at. For what three sets there were. And the potential.
00:54:27
Speaker
I want to know what the budget was. I would love to look at the, you know, what happened there. My dislikes. um There's a guy named Carson on YouTube. He does a bunch of movie reviews. Excuse me. He was saying that good co- I noticed this too, but he put into words.
00:54:51
Speaker
it was like good courtroom scenes have napped snappy dialogue pretty frequently or at least clap like something catches your attention look at my cousin Vinnie oh yeah this movie has some of the dullest courtroom scenes besides the Gary Puddles scene I actually really like the Gary Puddles scene that's i actually really like Gary I'd like Gary in the first one so or if you want a real good courtroom drama a few good men Ed here has Ed have you seen my cousin Vinnie no Oh my god. It is the most accurate legal comedy ever. But I've seen a few good men. Your honor, I rest my case. A few good men might be inaccurate, but it it keeps you interested in the courtroom shit. Guilty. You can't handle the truth. Guilty without watching my cousin Vinny. Your punishment? Your punishment? ah Watching my cousin Vinny. Your punishment? You're the Joker, baby! All right.
00:55:51
Speaker
i the one thing the sequel worried me that they were gonna do when they did it is it ruined a lot of the few mysteries of the last one like did he kill that one single mother in the Joker mm-hmm I hated so as soon as I saw her face I'm like god damn it no no Also, the songs could have been an elaborate dance numbers and you could have someone singing over like, you know, like it's imaginary. You just have a bunch of people dancing with him. Also, they fucking auto tuned Joaquin a few times pretty noticeably to make him sound good. But they didn't.
00:56:26
Speaker
But, huh? Sorry, keep going. I want to say something. But they didn't, but they didn't lean into it. What they could have done is as soon as Watkins, sorry, walking when joke when Arthur's really into the fantasy, the voice changes so drastically because it's not him, you know? So it's just a whole other like voice, like singing songs that match. Yeah, I don't know why I didn't mention this, but like,
00:56:53
Speaker
Why would you hire Lady Gaga as an actress for a musical and not help her write original songs for yeah this relationship? The worst part is she has a out companion album to the film. Yes. The album is called Harlequin.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yes, you she could have. She could have. She could have. But they didn't like her. I don't, you could honestly just give her the extra eight million to match Joaquin. Yeah. And then like, and like, and like also hire, hire her crew. Cause I bet she has writers and like other people that help her write. She does. I think she does. There's no way. I mean, I have a friend who's a music producer in Puerto Rico and a pretty high one. He,
00:57:39
Speaker
He helps write a lot like a lot of the people who write their own songs they do but they also have help Yeah, yeah, but like help help because she might need to help. She might not know exactly what this kind of musical but Like what it needs kind of stuff. I feel like she could she's pretty genre savvy She is but i'm just saying musical is a whole different musical mute musical songs are a whole different beast in my opinion did you also I was gonna, I forgot my thing. But there was a thing about... Did you hear about, speaking of story, did you hear that supposedly every night they'd be all, like the leads would be in, and Todd Phillips would be in like Joaquin's trailer and they'd just be like ripping pages out and rewriting them to film different parts the next day? Sounds likely. Yeah, Jesus Christ. I don't, I don't get it. Imagine if Quentin Tarantino wrote this film.
Humorous Speculation on Tarantino Directing Joker
00:58:38
Speaker
so much feet oh my god we get a Harley Quinn feet damn i keep forgetting that that's a thing ah it would just be your feet you wouldn't see your face once bro we get your introduction would be getting at the be like i'm no at the end of my fix it would be Harley Quinn up there with her heels in her hand and we get a tender like two minute long scene of Joaquin putting the the high heels on her feet And then she can say, I'm the toka, baby. Every time I think of Quentin Tarantino would be a great direct for this movie. And then I am always reminded of the feet and it would be bad. Yeah. um It felt like the character aggression from the beginning of the last were in the end. It felt like character aggression because in the end he supposedly killed the therapist or imagine killing the therapist and was running along flapping with bloody feet.
00:59:40
Speaker
back to the feet he was the literal toker but like and then this one how does he start he's depressed he's taking his unreliable narrator and the first one remember yes but he was still in the joker mindset and then this new one he's depressed it didn't feel like it just felt like character regression and it it's just a trope i've seen other movies but this one felt especially like stupid I've never heard of a jukebox musical before this movie and this was the first jukebox musical the worst first jukebox musical Okay, my last dislike and this is where it gets a little serious so The sexual assault scene felt just useless and turned it into pure eggs like they also it was added like Sexual he was sexually he was just physically abused. no No, no as a kid He was also sexually abused by his mother and her partners like it
01:00:34
Speaker
it It felt so it it just felt like useless and it just turned moving to move into pure eggs like he all edge No point he hated his audience and like you can hate your audience a little sometimes it's fun But when you ruin that bet like everything you've built and you burn it down like that It's not good storytelling and it's a dangerous. I think it sends an accidental dangerous message like I'm not trying to talk for people who aren't me but like imagine i Okay, I'm trying to let me pick this carefully. I know quite a few dudes who've been abused sexually Imagine what this movie since like physically sure whatever every movie has it where they get beat up and they turn to the villain But when he had a weird sex like we had a sexual abuse to it
01:01:19
Speaker
It's just like, it's a very real thing that shatters you in a whole, from people I've talked to, it shatters you in a very visceral and different way. And then it's like, yeah, if you if this happens to you, you're probably gonna turn to a monster. That's what this movie's saying. And I don't, if it was a more fantastical or like less realistic version, maybe there'd be enough dissonance there to like not send that message. But with how realistic this movie's trying to be,
01:01:48
Speaker
I don't know. It just felt gross.
01:01:53
Speaker
what What do you guys think? Am I overdoing it or overthinking it or what? you You summed it up very well. The reason that you hate the movie and that's... Yeah. That scene legitimately made me just...
01:02:07
Speaker
hate the movie the only thing i'm curious about is you mentioned like if it was a more like a fantastical thing like how would you fit that into a fantastical thing and not make it feel weird is the thing that's the issue i know that's a good point i haven't thought that far ahead it's just not a not i just don't think it's a very good thing to include in any movie no i i wouldn't have included it anyway but like the movie that in that it's about the joker if it's like a more like Depressing like actual real-life thing then yeah, but like this. I don't know how you do that. Well you I would have taken up this I just won't taking out the sexual abuse stuff because it just feels
01:02:46
Speaker
like you're using it, and you're not using it for any real reason or to put a really good point, you're just using it to tear a character down. It's like the complaint about like other, like like sexual assault scenes in movies. It just tears the character down. It doesn't make them stronger, add anything to it. It's just, oh, we're out of ideas how to make them how to make people pity him more. Here, just throw this terrible atrocious thing. Pulp Fiction. Does that have a scene like that? Yeah. Fuck, I didn't see Pulp Fiction. Marcellus Wallace gets raped.
01:03:17
Speaker
Oh, gross. Okay, I haven't seen the movie. Oh, okay, spoilers. No, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. It's only like a 30 year old movie. and I know I haven't. had i I've never been able to sit down and watch it all the way. So, so I wanted to hear the discussions like our movies and went to the Joker 2 thread. Someone, I was already thinking this and username adorable underscore ad underscore three four seven eight and they helped me break to the gap I wanted to do. So the explosion happens pretty quickly in the film by Harley. They said 10 minutes, I would say 30, 45 minutes in. I want them to have that little romance scene with the
01:03:59
Speaker
with the uh with them going up to the gate singing and stuff right yeah it's a good scene so from this point on he escapes he catches up with hardly harley joker commit robberies they do a bunch of like random crimes there's original musical numbers i'm not as good as ed i'm not going to be able to come up with like songs But one thing I hate is that this isn't just in the movies, this is just in comics lately. I think it started around the time of Heath Ledger. It's that now when the Joker shows up, he's just kind of like a terrorist instead of like a stupid, like a super messed up clown. So like one crime I want is like on the way he nearly get, there's an episode where in the Batman AMA series where he
01:04:49
Speaker
where some dude is like, why am I being chased around and being hunted by the Joker? It's because he accidentally cut the Joker off once and the Joker tried to ruin his life.
Imagined Crimes and Joker's Menace
01:04:58
Speaker
Where's my Where's my goddamn electric car, Bruce? It's the Harley Quinn show. That's what Ruthie's friends are saying. Such a funny clip. It's a funny clip. You know, I watched the first couple of episodes of it. I loved it and I haven't continued.
01:05:16
Speaker
it's It's just Venture Bros. with official licensed characters. um Same kind of humor. So one so I wanted to base it off of that. One crime is that he nearly gets hit by a 1978 Thunderbird, right? I had to look up for cars that were common enough in that era. So he instructs his growing band of clowns to grab every driver of a 1978 Thunderbird they can find, tie them up, and lock them in the trunk of the cars.
01:05:41
Speaker
That's some Joker shit. It's some Joker shit. It's just like break into every house in Gotham and steal the left sock. Yes. Look, okay. here Every left sock. Yes. Wow. Replace it with mitten. Replace it with a mitten. Or like go break into like the police commit, like the commissioner's house and move every, all the furniture three inches to the left.
01:06:06
Speaker
Even into the walls. Even into the walls. Yes. No, no, no. I got another one. I got another one. I got another one. I got another one. He's, you know, he gets annoyed at a baby crying. So he, he and his goons kidnap a bunch of babies and have them suspended from like a bridge on the little things. And just like, oh, you gotta be quick. And just, just lean into the demented bits. I'm probably gonna get it.
01:06:33
Speaker
God, I hope my school doesn't find this, they're gonna get worried. But like... Not it's not just the demented bits, the silly demented bits. Yes! So, as it goes on, Harley... As it goes on, Joker sees people begging him to stop. He doesn't seem to care. It's not real to him. he's So here's the thing, this movie, Todd Phillips wants to have his cake and eat it too. And usually that's a bad thing. I think it could have worked. Like Miles Morales and in in Across the Spider-Verse, Ed's favorite movie. You can have two cakes!
01:07:10
Speaker
So, Harley keeps egging him on to keep going, and then she also reveals that she's pregnant. I want the pregnancy to be legit.
01:07:22
Speaker
He sees Gary Puddles, a new father, shaking in fear at seeing him. I want the same conversation I don't want in a courtroom. And right as one of the henchmen are about to kill Gary while making a short joke, Joker just pops him. Shoots him right in the, shoots him on the head, whatever, you know? And then he sees all the blood over Gary and someone on the stroller.
01:07:47
Speaker
We have to have an actual baby. I don't want to, you know, and it starts to hit him that this is having consequences. This is what's breaking him out. He cared about Gary. I want to use that. You know, if you want to have sympathy, you want to have a crazy Joker. Yeah, you can also do a sympathetic Joker. It's been done. The killing joke exists. Wait, the killing joke made Joker sympathetic? The comic. Yeah. The one where he paralyzes Barbara. Yep.
01:08:16
Speaker
he He has moments of lucidity a little bit where he kind of, it's he he knows he's insane and he can't feels like he can't do anything to stop it. It used to be an alternate universe once and it got made canon, so it hinted that Batman killed him at the end while they're both laughing at a joke Joker makes. It's a great comic. I've read the whole thing. it's It's great. It's a classic. Alan Moore can be edgy sometimes, but man, when he gets it, he gets it.
01:08:42
Speaker
um
01:08:46
Speaker
So Harley sees that Arthur is hesitating and wants to do his best to live in reality now. So she starts battering him, threatening to kill herself and the baby.
01:09:00
Speaker
And, you know, psychiatry, psychology, you know what to look out for for gaslighting. You can use that. She starts gaslighting him. Maybe she drugs him with certain medications to get him to be more complicit with her schemes. She starts taking more control. There's a parallel here between, like, a lot of people, if they don't... Again, also, if there's a thing, a lot of people realize this, but if you've been... what you grow up, attachment styles, what you grow up...
01:09:27
Speaker
Like the kind of parents you have is sometimes, not always, sometimes it's kind of what you look for in a partner later, even if it's, so, you know, if, if you're thinking, Hey, maybe I need some help, maybe see if you can go to the therapist or something. Um, but yeah, it, it, there's presence there.
01:09:46
Speaker
Uh, the lawyer defending Arthur happens to find them and just begs Arthur to turn himself in. Harley just stabs her multiple times in the guts and says something meant to joke like, making it quicker for you to unload more of your shit. I don't know. Just, uh, I, I, I don't know why I wrote this. Or, yeah, just like, oh, you're finally having a hot, huh? Pop. Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah, that's better. Thank you. Yep, I gotcha. As the movie progresses,
01:10:14
Speaker
It quick, almost jump-stir quick. So you know the hotel Arkham bit where they're dancing? Okay. it It keeps progressing. You see it come, he comes back to that again and again and again. And at some point it'll be like red instead of blue, be red and then blood and blood. And then by the end, I want it to be like full on the voice as a bunch of viscera and blood just gets all over Arthur. Oh, like Carrie? Yeah, but it's it's all in his head. It's just, it's showing he's not, he's not enjoying this. Mm-hmm.
01:10:43
Speaker
so As the movie ends, he breaks out of it. He's finally like, I'm done. He takes off his, wipes off his makeup. He tells Harley it's over. I'm turning myself in. She walks up to him with loud boots, shoots him in the knee, and he gets on his knees. She's like, huh, ain't that a kick in the head? And then starts beating the ever-loving shit out of him in the Joker stairs.
01:11:08
Speaker
You hear, you really hear the crunch and the sound effects, the viscera. His face is completely mangled. You don't get a full thing of it, but you can kind of see in the corner. And then she kicks him off. He's rolling down the stairs. She starts doing the Joker dance. A lot of clowns are shearing her on. And as she does it, like, let's say she does some high kicks, the blood and maybe a tooth or two go onto the other clowns and they keep shearing. And this cycle is going to continue with her new baby. And that's where the movie ends.
01:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, you nailed your point. Sorry.
01:11:48
Speaker
Ed, you're kind of quiet. That goes hard. That goes too hard. Yeah, thank you. I don't like it, honestly. You don't like it? No, it's too much. It's a little, the ending is a little. i It was just something, i okay, I wrote this the day after we saw the movie, it was still, see, I was still a little like, ugh.
01:12:07
Speaker
like I'm not trying to I'm not no no I may have overdone it maybe not the toothpick but like the blood I think is fine no I think that like the idea of the pen being dead at the top of the staircase and his blood is like getting just spilled all over it she's dancing and I think that's fine Bissera is where you lose me fair enough okay also I want to make a quick a quick edit to my ending or a quick clarification. when they're when When they're doing the Joker walk down the stairs, we'll get a good like 15 seconds of it until they do the freaking high kick together in sync and right at the top of the high kick cut to black. That's good. That's good. That's good. I think I figured out what about the when I was talking about like the style of manipulation that Harley does. I think I figured it out. What?
01:13:05
Speaker
I've had somebody talk to me like that, where I had shared a story that was personal to me, something that was kind of a one of a kind experience. And she and I were in the same kind of experience. She was also graduating high school at the time.
01:13:28
Speaker
ah And she looked me dead in the eye and she said, oh yeah, me too. And then I just like barely started the story and she like just took it over. But yeah, she just made it her own. And she said it without blinking an eye, without pausing to think about it. It was kind of just a word dump. I've never seen a guy word dump like that. Cause usually it's like, they'll they'll jump ah for me being a fab.
01:13:58
Speaker
they will interrupt me, but they'll start and stop and start and
Manipulation Tactics Discussion
01:14:02
Speaker
stop. And I'll kind of like try and butt in, but the way AFAB people just like insert themselves and they just to your face, we'll talk at you. It's different. Hmm. I see. what I see what you're getting at. Yeah. It's definitely more common that that's not manipulation amongst women or yeah. Yeah.
01:14:28
Speaker
women, APAP folks. Yeah. It's definitely more common because I think, I think just like, I don't know if it's like a brain chemistry thing or just societal so stuff. Yeah. I think it's the like, men are not as vocal like that or men have different ways of being manipulative. Being manipulative. Cause usually when a guy is manipulative, again, in my experience, gaslighting. is one Gaslighting.
01:14:54
Speaker
Or like they're just asserting their authority and you're just like they'll just try and bully you into the manipulation, where AFAB people will gaslight you in. They're sneakier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys will do it too, but not as sneak. They don't. No. Yeah. It's like a ah tidal wave versus a sneaker wave. Both are very deadly, but in very different ways. Yes. Yeah. No, I can see that.
01:15:22
Speaker
Sorry about overgoing it with the going a little too hard on the viscera and shit, but know you I did just I wanted to see if I could do the thing top fields is trying to do of have his cake and eat it too Was I able to make it work? like yeah I'm just saying like yeah, you have you have the the freaking like silly clown madness and then you have the insane shit like insane oh style stuff also at the end they're like pretty jarring I don't know Again, you just lost me at the like So if I were to remove the viscera. Yeah, if you just toned down that last scene. Yeah. Again, that was my bad. I was writing it. You were writing angry. I was writing angry. And yeah, my bad. but The end is what you wanted to do to this movie, if it had a physical form. Yeah, no, there was definitely some protection there. um Yeah, no.
01:16:18
Speaker
um or would you say transference i've been trying to misuse his psychology terms it's working it's working every time i'm like but you're never going to forget what transference is yeah well i i don't forget because every other like because every other uh theory brings up transference when i'm in my current classes raids uh ruth you go first it's like a biggie What? D. Oh, I heard B and I was like, whoa, a D. This is like, this is like a minus. Yeah, no, it's a D. F plus. That, again, that one scene ruined it so viscerally for me. I'd give it like a C minus. It had, it had good things in it.
01:17:04
Speaker
I think this is the first time we've been in three different strata. three different we got f We got a D, we got a C. I don't know. ah Again, I like the first act and first half-ish for 45 minutes. Yeah, no, the first act is the best. No, the first act's so good. At first, I was like, if people just hate this because it's a musical, it like, this is great. That's what I was... I mean, I had a beer while watching this, but like, as I'm watching it, I'm like, what is this supposed to get bad?
01:17:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it did, but like way later. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. If it had just been the first act and it was like a short film. Yeah. B B plus A minus. It would win an Oscar. I wanted like an actual like whirlwind romance between the two.
01:17:50
Speaker
No, you can't have a whirlwind romance between the Joker and Harley. It has to be manipulative in one aspect. And toxic. Yeah, very toxic. I mean, the suicide, not the suicide, Suicide Squad didn't do it. They were doing, actually rumor is they had it and then they recut the movie to take it out. No, the original with Jared Leto. They were gonna have the abusive stuff. They cut it out. Is that his laugh? That's your little laugh, right? Something like that, yeah. It's really bad.
01:18:19
Speaker
Fuck Jared Leto, dude. yeah Every movie that he's in, I enjoy it when he dies. But he's in 30 seconds to Mars. leads They're over. I don't like the band as much. They're they pretty good. I don't know. They're okay. You should just stop acting and just full time 30 seconds to Mars.
01:18:39
Speaker
But honestly like some weird rumors about 30 seconds to Mars behind the scenes in the concerts. Yeah, you're injur enjoy yeah, but there's not a good person still like allegedly but i didn't not a good person. I don't know just like please don't send rats to our front door. Also like the thing is that Jared isn't like He's like I'm 14 and this is deep, but he's a grown-ass man. I know but like Earlier in his career when it wasn't as big as a fucking nerd as he is now especially like requiem for a dream Like when he when he didn't have the power
01:19:14
Speaker
um He was a he was in a lead in an early Darren Aronofsky film. No, he was for sure that guy all the time i still no no just like it's just that like It seems that like the the more popular more and the bigger he got the more he thought he could be like, you know I want to influence my artistic style into the things that I play and that's when things started falling apart for him and Luckily, I'm pretty sure Denis Villeneuve shut that shit down as soon as he saw it, because the only blemish on 2049 is that Jared Leto's in it, but he's actually really good in the movie. And he's only in it for like five scenes, yeah so... yes I need to know before you make me watch it, does he die?
01:19:58
Speaker
in 2049? Yes. ah No, he does not. Damn it. It always increases my enjoyment of a movie when he does. If it helps, he's barely there.
Blade Runner and Memory Discussion
01:20:07
Speaker
Yeah. you and ah And I forget he's there. I genuinely forget he's there. Yeah. Because I got to say. You've seen the original, right? Yes. Technically. We did it for the podcast. Oh, yeah, that's right. ah Again, Scotchgard on my brain. yeah I've seen it yeah at least three times. Neander Wallace is the replacement of ah Tyrell. Tyrell. He basically, he he was a competitor. And then with, with, to with Tyrell dying, he basically like becomes the new leading thing and actually purchases Tyrell core and just leaves it all as core. Ed, you and lovely audience didn't see it as you were trying to explain it to me. I'm i'm just like blinking my eyes, twitching. like she's having And up with the lore.
01:20:58
Speaker
But i I can't remember the movie. You don't remember Tyrell? Vaguely? I remember. Where Roy Batty and Jay of Sebastian. I remember Leopard Print Robe. I know, but do you remember Roy Batty, Roy Batty and Jay of Sebastian in the elevator and they're playing chess with Tyrell? Don't forget the grandpa from ah so to sorry and You don't remember the from everything everywhere all at one. Oh my god You guys are both talking at me and I'm just telling you from Scotchgard on brain I I know but i want I'm telling you what I remember. I remember a man who looked like ah Hugh Hefner he had the leopard print robe the black hair and then the 80 sunglasses and
01:21:45
Speaker
And then there's the elevator and the chest. And yes, I remember that. That's Tyrell. That is Tyrell, I know. I'm trying to communicate to you how difficult it is for my brain to retain information from Blade Runner. Why?
01:22:01
Speaker
It's just the thing, it's just like, there's always a movie that everyone doesn't know. I literally told the entire plot of the movie without notes. And that was the first time I understood the plot. Not when I watched it two times, maybe three, who's to say? When it took like 20 minutes to like... Yeah, it was like... God, when you explain it like that, I want to watch it. What did I see? What the fuck?
01:22:23
Speaker
so so i only I only forgot one little detail. Which was a when when when Rachel called Rick Deckard at the but whatever place. Yeah. What have you guys been watching? Doubways. It's pretty mid so far. Not far into the final. What? Four or five episodes in.
01:22:49
Speaker
It gets bad for a little bit. And then the last episode is a fucking amazing. per Okay, so also ah one of the things that I hate about the boys spoilers, skip a few seconds or so.
The Boys Series and Uzumaki Quality Drop
01:23:01
Speaker
I shipped chemical and Frenchy so bad. Wait, just keep watching. Keep watching. I shipped them so much.
01:23:11
Speaker
Please keep watching. It makes sense. You'll see what I mean. I don't want to spoil. Just keep watching. Why? Like I'm i'm i'm i'm i'm fine. I'm fine with what they're doing with Frenchie. But like I shipped Kimiko and Frenchie so hard. it It hurts. Yeah, I get it. they It's talked about more. Also, Rivals of Aether 2 comes out in two weeks. Oh, yeah. I wish I had money for that. Thirty dollars. I wish I had money for that, Ed. It's so cheap. So cheap.
01:23:41
Speaker
Anyways. I don't know if I can. Ruthie's the main bread are bread maker right now, and I don't blame her. Yeah, get into seals. You make six figures. They're easy. ah
01:23:53
Speaker
All right. Ruthie, what about you? and Is it fine? Sensei, may I go all out? Sure. I don't know what you're going to bring up. Hector and I started watching Uzumaki. Oh, right. Yeah.
01:24:06
Speaker
Yeah. Is it bad? It's so good. Oh, it's good. ah The first episode is really good. There is a noticeable drop in quality with episode two. And we are hearing that three is going to be the same team that did two and four is the same team that did one. So it seems like they were the product, probably the producers of the show. Warner Brothers were like, no, we're not going to spend that much money. Find a cheaper team for a bit. And honestly, I can kind of see what happens.
01:24:34
Speaker
Huh? It's gonna have four as of recording right now. it're on two i It's It's at a breakneck pace, but as an Uzumaki fan, it's I am willing to look past it. I'm enjoying it. It is
Retro Game Store and Film Poster Conversations
01:24:51
Speaker
really good. i'm What I'm worried about is that he flat out said, like a spiral, it goes faster and faster the long. The first episode is already like, ha.
01:24:59
Speaker
Second episode that ruined a good story because of the faster pace. Ruined, really? Not ruined, but like it almost ruined it for me. like It did kind of bring it down because there was a nice slowness and there was a nice... ah Let's see here. i found a rich I had to go to work training in a town farther ah a good hour away from where I live, some way out of the way. And I found a retro game store right next to the place where I ah where i had to do my training for work.
01:25:30
Speaker
And I got an infamous second son for 10 bucks. And that game, it it my brother, I'm calling him out, he sold the family PS3 that I bought, I like gave to him so he could get games for the PS4 and the Switch. I get it. I have your PS2, by the way. I have your PS2 and a lot of PS2 games. That's fine. You can keep it. It's fine. But I can't find the escape too. But point being, I might have it.
01:25:59
Speaker
You have Papiscape 2? I might, oh look. Because your dad gave me like your PS2 in all of the games. Oh yeah. If you have Papiscape 2, ooh. Anyway, so anyway, my brother sold it. It had Infamous 1 and 2. Those were not some of my favorite games. I don't replay games. I replayed the shit out of Infamous 1 and 2, mainly 2.
01:26:20
Speaker
um
01:26:23
Speaker
I got Infamous 2nd Son. It's fun. There's some noticeable flaws compared to Infamous 2. uh mainly the length but yeah yeah that that's it's fun if you can find it for cheap i recommend getting it we psyched people out with like oh it's hereditary oh no it's the descent oh no it's joker ah Yeah, well, The Joker 2 was like, I don't think it's going to be in theaters long. Yeah. yeah And I want it. And it lined up so well with our yeah anniversary. Guys, I'm proud of us. We've done this for four years, on and off because of life being busy. But like we've done this for four years. Yeah. And like I'm not trying to start. Pretty consistently, all things considered? All things considered? Yeah, no. We've followed a few podcasts. I've followed a few podcasts that have, due to life reasons, no shame on them, have kind of just stopped, or they'll come back like once or twice a year.
01:27:18
Speaker
So like I don't know it's kind of nice that we've been able to do this pretty well We made some friends friends friends anyways It's officially spooky season now, so which one is next time for the descent yeah sad ah we We should pick we should pick the next scary movie just like already I We already did! No, after the What did we pick? It's the other one that you guys are gonna hate! As above so below. As above so below. Don't look at the film poster that's in Spanish. It's really pretty, but it spoils the the twist in the movie. Okay. um all i think The only poster I saw was with like the upside-down Eiffel Tower.
01:28:11
Speaker
Yes, that's that's the original that's the original one. There's one where they just literally take it one for one and they tran they transpose or they translate the the title literally.
Pulp Fiction Anniversary and Podcast Closing
01:28:24
Speaker
And then there's another poster where they tra they ah they translate it thematically, both the image and the name.
01:28:34
Speaker
Hmm For me it kind of you know, what's my favorite post one of your posters, huh? You ever see the Cloverfield poster the original Cloverfield movie come go look it up If you flip it if you flip if you flip it and then you put it next to The Cloverfield poster. It's the monster. Oh Very hidden in the background. No this one here See the monster a little bit there you flip it you get the full monster.
01:28:59
Speaker
ah It's kinda cool. Someone told me once and Oh I looked it up and yeah, it's pretty cool. I wanna see Cloverfield. I've never seen Cloverfield. I like kaiju. I don't usually like modern posters, but no, this is good. Yeah, and if you flip again, flip it and then put it right next to it, you get Cloverfield. You can look it up. Oh, by the way, I looked up the actual release date of Pulp Fiction, because I said it's about a 30-year-old movie. It'll be exactly 30 years old in four days. Damn. Have a good day, Pulp Fiction.
01:29:30
Speaker
30 years old. It came out a year after I was born. Almost. A little bit less. You're old. You're old. Yep. Ankle deep. At this point, it's like mid-thigh. No. Well, ah yeah, 31 coming up, so. Yeah, I know. I'm but i'm excited for your birthday. I'm a thigh like mid-calf.
01:29:53
Speaker
We're gonna get we're gonna get it's gonna be fucked fucking while we're gonna met so we're go no me concert concert like metal core not mecoy but Just me metal metal core Yeah, I sent him metal and he's like knots to it. I don't like the singing. I'm like, sp yeah, like I don't know classic metal and like other just like think the classic of metal is it just doesn't do it for me. I need the metal core I need to the Shit, I need the screaming. I need the I You need also the normal singing. not I do need a little bit of the normal singing, too. Hey, if you're a King Gizzard and a wizard lizard but fan, join us in our Discord. we have We have a Discord. We have a bunch of socials in the description. Come give us a follow.
01:30:42
Speaker
ah Have a great day, everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Goodbye, everyone. Have a great day. Maybe even a good night. Okay, evening. A just all right morning.
01:30:58
Speaker
May your dusk be lit, unlike the dusk. Yeah. but Fuck you, Twilight, though. Bye. Bye. Special thanks to you, our listeners, for joining us for the fourth anniversary of Reshoot, an amateur's guide to good or fail. Apologies for the switchers. We saw the opportunity to revisit a classic.
01:31:20
Speaker
Today's film was Joker 2, Folie du, directed by Todd Phillips. The writers were Todd Phillips and Scott Silver, and the cinematographer was Lawrence Sher. Go show some love to their various social media social media accounts, or to send some good vibes their way. They made a movie, which is more than we can say here. Stay tuned for our next episode, The Descent.