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Ep. 133 – Bold Cut Trio: The Dixie Chicks, Jared From Subway, and Clickbait Crockumentaries w/ April Gloria
82 Plays2 years ago
This week we welcome back South Jersey seamstress, shapeshifter, and sassy spouse to Casey, April Gloria! Continuing our conversation from last week, we’re jumping back into the early 2000’s controversy surrounding the Dixie Chicks, who voiced their opposition to the impending Iraq War, as well as their distaste for then-President George W. Bush. By today’s standards their comments seem extremely mild, but they caused an absolute uproar among conservative Americans that can still be felt today. We also discuss the recent Discovery Plus documentary, Jared From Subway: Catching a Monster. Let’s just say the quality of documentaries seems like it varies quite a bit… Follow April on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok (@_aprilgloria), and enjoy the show!
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Transcript
Sensationalism in Documentaries
00:00:00
Speaker
It's like every documentary is turned into an episode of Ghost Adventures. Yeah. Yeah. Something made a joke about Ghost Adventures the other day and I was... Oh my gosh. Oh, it cracked me up about just like the nonsense. Did you tell everyone that we were really into it for a while?
00:00:18
Speaker
Yeah, until you start thinking like, did we see this episode? Oh, no, they're all the same. Oh, no, they're all the same. Oh, he's going to be possessed now. He's going to be really out of control with his emotions. He's going to have to step away. They're going to leave iron alone again.
Humorous Podcast Introduction
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Grown Up Christian. I'm Casey.
00:00:57
Speaker
I'm Sam. And I am not Jeremiah. No. Jeremiah, what is he doing? He's like, he's pulling somebody out of a ditch. Someone needed new mudflaps on their car so they could go play a puddle or something stupid. He's taking his evening to bolt naked lady mudflaps onto a coal roller. The one where they're like,
00:01:26
Speaker
sitting there with their knees up and it's like their backs together. You know, the classiest of images. That's a brand, right? Is that that's a specific brand?
00:01:38
Speaker
It might be royalty free or just stolen by everyone who uses it. I don't know like there was a brand but I never I never understood what brand it was because you would see that on like those soccer shorts like the indoor soccer crap like Yeah, well also like first graders in my school like fucking wear the jackets with the that down the sleeves and I'm like this feels like
Nostalgic Symbols and Cultural Reflections
00:02:04
Speaker
Strange that's weird. It could be a brand that some people give a shit about I'm actually gonna I gotta Google this right now We didn't come prepared to talk about this sometimes things come up, you know, I never thought that I would I would ever know this information it hard to spread it off days of like the the Playboy Bonnie symbol being like
00:02:26
Speaker
Everybody's a cool, edgy thing to have on a shirt or whatever. Oh, apparently that's coming back. There was like a collection at PacSun that I know just because I've overheard people talking about it. And I'm like, wow, that's again, really? Okay. Yeah. That was a thing for a minute. And it's so weird because that was a little before
00:02:48
Speaker
That was way before all the Me Too stuff and everything.
Tech Giants and Internet Behavior
00:02:51
Speaker
I know he's dead in fine good riddance, but how has nobody come for Hugh Hefner? Because that guy sucked. I don't know, for some reason. He's still celebrated, even. That's what's weird. That guy was such a fucking old pervert. Like, clearly disgusting.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, everything about is also the I probably need to work on my Googler abilities, but it turns out that Naked Girl logo back to back was not the appropriate search term. Oh, my word. You need you needed to look up clothing brand logo. Women back to back. Did you find it?
00:03:35
Speaker
I did not give you an appropriate introduction, by the way. This is April Gloria. She's joining us again. She's my wife and a seamstress, cosplayer, costume maker, friend of the show, dog mom. No, I'm going
PC vs Mac Stories
00:03:53
Speaker
to, I'm going to.
00:03:55
Speaker
as the children would say, I'm alive myself right now. Oh no, is that a thing that they say? Yeah, that's what you have to say now, otherwise you're canceled. Well, I think it started because Twitter would flag your posts. So first they would say like, die, but with an asterisk in front of, like instead of the eye. Oh. Yeah, so part of my job unfortunately is to know internet things.
00:04:24
Speaker
Well, most of it's against my will. I'm very disappointed in Elon for banning people for the exercise of their free speech, you know? Yes, kind of a tool. Who's left that's an Elon fan? What? It seems like there's nobody left that's an Elon fan at this point. I literally just saw a Facebook friend post about the fact that they liked him today.
00:04:54
Speaker
fun fact.
00:05:17
Speaker
Anyone who just denigrated him on Twitter got their accounts banned and it was just like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'll do everything I can to get it restored. Yeah. Oh, okay. I found, well, okay. The original logo that we were talking about earlier is not two women, not a woman back to back. It's a man and a woman back to back. And it's an Italian company called Kappa, K-A-P-P-A.
00:05:47
Speaker
Oh, and so some of those logos on sports clothing, you may see are actually a man and a woman. But so I think, you know, Spencer's or whoever co-opted that design and just made it two ladies with like giant balloon boobs or something. And they go on. Yeah, maybe they didn't. Maybe they didn't copy. It's like they it's like a parody of that.
00:06:13
Speaker
I guess. This is just me guessing. I don't know. I could be wrong. The internet will probably tell me. But the original design looks like it was from that company. What do you think the CEO or maybe the founder of Spencer's gifts is up to?
00:06:26
Speaker
He sold the company, right? So that way he could go to Indonesia and have sex with underage women or something like that. Probably. Maybe he's friends with Tom from MySpace. Dude, I imagine him looking a lot like the CEO of Bang Energy. Oh my gosh. There's some people that it's just
00:06:50
Speaker
You know, like that old saying of like you either die here or live long enough to be to become the villain. It's like you either either the coke kills you or you live long enough to become a sad desperate case like McAfee. Yeah, exactly. Gosh, laying under a hammock and asking to be shit on from above it. Oh, well, his pop ups continually show up on my laptop.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. To this day. That's what they probably would have sold a lot more antivirus software if like, you did they would just be like you have 30 days to to subscribe or we're going to show you the video of McAfee being like dumped on. Yeah.
00:07:37
Speaker
experiencing a glass bottom boat. That's like the fastest way to turn somebody into a Mac consumer. You're right. I heard you don't need antivirus software for Mac. Anyone who had McAfee is just like, I'm in, I'm in. That's how they like built their, their base completely. Just that's why I got, I got mine a while back. Cause I'm just like, Oh, this is a,
00:08:05
Speaker
I don't have to deal with a lot of the crap that the PC people have, but then I got a PC upstairs, the one that Casey is currently sitting in front of, and then I couldn't use all of my programs on my Mac laptop. So when that crapped out, I'm like, well, I guess I have to get a window, a PC laptop. Yeah, the Mac one turned into a hot plate. Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
See, I, when I had a, I mean, I have a PC right now, I have never in the past 10 years downloaded any sort of antivirus software. You just like, there's just obvious things you don't do with your computer if you don't want to get a virus. And yeah, you know, 12, 13 year old me had a lot of lessons to learn and I would definitely be able to speak a lot of wisdom into that version of myself, but you know, you live
Entertainment vs Information in Documentaries
00:08:53
Speaker
and you learn. So.
00:08:55
Speaker
Hashtag the pirate bay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Well, I think I shared the story. I think I shared this story before, but I got my family's computer of porn virus by not actually looking at porn. I downloaded a song from the internet, not understanding like that people would just attach whatever the fuck they wanted to it. And it was like,
00:09:21
Speaker
pretty drastic, you know, it turned like your icons into just fucked up stuff. And then like, it would, if you open the browser, it would like just immediately open to like, to porn. I was devastated. I didn't even see it. But apparently, trauma is a terrorist. Yeah, you are. Because apparently, I should ask my sister about it now that she's an adult. But apparently,
00:09:46
Speaker
She was the recipient of that trauma because she was the next one on the computer and my parents were livid. We're like, we swear to God. And of course we're like 12, 13 year old boys, there's no way. I couldn't have been, maybe we were older than that, but either way, there was absolutely no chance that
00:10:06
Speaker
We were believed, you know, I think. Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, just. I actually would ask my I would be a little weird to talk to my mom. I wouldn't bring up my mom. I would ask my dad about that. It's the sort of things that parents pretend they don't remember. Yeah. Oh, oh, well, I don't know.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. Man, maybe that's a good thing that we're not going to have kids because I feel like I would just remember everything and be like, oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah, you might. Like it was yesterday. You would be at dinner just, hey, remember that one time? And then you'd bring up all the fucked up shit your kids ever did. Remember that mean thing you said as a toddler? Yeah. Yeah, I'm doing the world a favor, you know?
00:10:57
Speaker
Well, OK, so we last time we had to cut our our story short. But this episode, so every this court like this week just kind of corresponds with. There's a bunch of documentaries out right now that everybody's talking about, and it was interesting because we've watched a couple of them. We'll get into them.
00:11:26
Speaker
as we go through here. But where we're going to start off is where we left off with the Dixie Chicks original cancel culture case and their feud with Toby Keith. We watched April and I watched the documentary about that from 2006. It was that documentary is recent and it was about
00:11:50
Speaker
What happened in 2006 or it's like 2006. Okay. The events were like from the early 2000s until about 2005. So this documentary was originally shot. The purpose of it was to follow them on this top of the world tour that they were on. And London was one of the first stops. And that's where Natalie Mains made her controversial comments about
00:12:18
Speaker
the war in Iraq and George W. Bush. And so it kind of turned into a documentary about touring their music and stuff like that. But then also like them being engulfed in this scandal and how it changed their course.
00:12:37
Speaker
Which how hilarious is it that just their criticism of the war in Iraq it was like a Scandal like that was a scandal
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah, it was it's it's just like such a product of the times which is kind of what we talked about last time leading into it is just it's hard to really wrap your head around where the country was at that point and like going back and watching some of the footage of people outside like people showing up to picket their concerts and stuff. I mean, it's it's insane. I got a clip from cable news that we'll play here in a second. That's
00:13:21
Speaker
Pretty fun, things have changed a lot. But it was interesting watching that documentary from 2006, back to back with the Jared from Subway catching a monster documentary, which is originally on Discovery Plus, which noteworthy, that's the same one that produced that Hillsong documentary.
00:13:45
Speaker
Right, which not a fan of you did not love. And then neither. We also all of us started watching the the the Duggar the shiny happy people documentary about the the Dougers. So we're all documentary tonight, just our criticisms, critiques.
00:14:08
Speaker
Well, to be fair, for the Dogger one, that's a four-part thing, and I'm only one episode in. I just watched the first one. I'm into it, and I'm interested to see where it goes, but I definitely have a thought or two about some of the way it's set up. Well, it's funny to watch all three of these from, you know,
00:14:37
Speaker
different companies and different eras and how they're different from each other. And of course, you know, you're following a group of musicians around in one. I mean, the Dixie Chicks documentary is called Shut Up and Sing. And it's more or less just like following them around and kind of documenting things as they happen.
00:14:58
Speaker
the news coverage, their response, showing them talking about it and stuff behind the scenes. But there is not like a lot of editorializing in that documentary. And then you compare that with like, dude, the Jared from Subway doc. It's all editorializing. Like there's so little story portrayed in this thing. It's insane. And it's three episodes long, you know? Like, and that's, dude, that's what I think I'm getting a little tired of is we are in
00:15:28
Speaker
I guess documentaries are always made, but for a while it was just like, here's your documentary. We spent seven years on this film getting footage. We combined it, compiled it into an hour and a half. Certainly there could be some editorializing, but for the most part, you're like, I feel pretty good about that. And it feels like there's been this shift to like,
00:15:50
Speaker
Like it's like the, you know, it gets the fucking Hobbit treatment where you're like, we need to make something that doesn't deserve multiple movies, films, episodes into something that's going to be like five or six, seven hours long. Oh, my gosh. Just for the purpose of like telling a story that you're just grasping at straws to pull it to to narrate. And it's like, I don't know, I just I would rather just be boiled down. Like we're in this
00:16:21
Speaker
What was it? Was it History Channel that you mentioned, Casey? There was all these pseudoscience type documentaries for a while. Hunt for this, things for that. It's like ancient aliens type shit where you're just like, this is obviously just a bunch of jerk offs trying to captivate an audience. There was one that even aired on a Shark Week that was fairly controversial. Do you remember this?
00:16:51
Speaker
It was like a hunt for a Megalodon type thing. Maybe it wasn't even that. I just remember a Shark Week aired this documentary that turned out to be complete bullshit. They did it under the idea that it was just entertainment, expecting people to see through it. I remember watching it being like, this has to be
00:17:14
Speaker
This has to be fucking fake. It was like some sea creature that clearly didn't exist. And a bunch of like found footage type shit of like, whoa, I can't believe that. And I just remember it being controversial like that they would have aired that during shark week at a time where they really only aired
00:17:38
Speaker
they were they only aired interesting shit about sharks for real. Yeah. And it just kind of feels like we're in this territory of like, are we is this like real? Are we really document like doing documentary or are we just making entertainment? Yeah, it's like the outrage culture that we live in.
Ghosts vs Demons: A Christian Perspective
00:17:59
Speaker
It's like every documentary is turned into an episode of ghost adventures.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Something made a joke about Ghost Adventures the other day and I was... Oh my gosh. Oh, it cracked me up about just like the nonsense. Did you tell everyone that we were really into it for a while?
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, until you start thinking like, did we see this episode? Oh, no, they're all the same. Oh, he's going to be possessed now. He's going to be really out of control with his emotions. He's going to have to step away. They're going to leave iron alone again. Yeah, it was. OK, I found it. You need to step away right now. You need to just step away, OK? You're worrying me. I'm worried for your safety right now.
00:18:47
Speaker
Punch a wall. There is what I said, where it's like someone was like being quote unquote targeted by a ghost. And then like, he got scratches down his back, but they lift up his shirt. And he didn't have scratches through like his shirt wasn't ripped, but he had the bloody scratches on his back. And I was just like, people who I was with were like, this seems I mean, kind of believable, right? And I'm like,
00:19:13
Speaker
No, you could literally like, if it's, if it's filmed in 2023, it does it like nothing about anything that could look believable could be, should be taken as believable. I mean, you know what your problem is? The word cut. You think that demons abide by the laws of physics and that's an asinine assumption. You know, and that's on you. You're right. Uh,
00:19:43
Speaker
It's, well, and that's the funny thing about also growing up in a Christian world is like, you hear ghost stories on shit and you're just like, listen, I know ghosts aren't real, but let me tell you what is, demons. And they do the exact same things as ghosts, but they're just not ghosts. And you're like, goddamn, this is such a waste of a conversation.
00:20:11
Speaker
It was a Megalodon documentary. It was maybe 2018, maybe earlier than that. No, it had to be earlier than that, 2013.
00:20:26
Speaker
A film that ended on Discovery Channel about the potential survival of the prehistoric shark purported to be a documentary. The story revolves around numerous videos, quote-unquote, photographs, and first-hand encounters with a megalodon, and an ensuing investigation that points to the involvement of prehistoric species despite the long-held belief of extinction. Well, at least this is about something fun. This is just fun.
00:20:53
Speaker
Maybe, but that's coming from me who gets really annoying about things that people act like are real, but don't end up being real. The worst offender at this kind of thing, at least, that comes to mind for me, and I say this with the preface that
00:21:14
Speaker
I listen to and watch a lot of true crime stuff. True crime stuff is voyeuristic and it's, God, what's the word? You know, you're using like misery for entertainment.
00:21:31
Speaker
And it just, it just is like that is what it is. I still watch it. I mean, but I mean, let's be honest. That's what true crime really is. The one that, that comes to mind for me is that crime scene, the vanishing at the Cecil hotel. Cause I mean, did you guys watch that? It's what you watched today, bro. Cause we watched it. Yeah. That's the one in Colorado, right?
00:21:59
Speaker
No, no, this is the one. Oh, that's Stanley Hotel. Oh, my gosh. We did watch too many people get murdered. And it was Jack Nicholson. OK, I remember that. I remember the Cecil Hotel. Yeah, this is the one on Skid Row. Yes. In L.A. And like it was really big for a minute.
00:22:23
Speaker
It was another like three episode thing, but basically like it's this hotel with this like really bad history because it's on skid row, you know, it's, it's literally just like people who are on their last leg. It's like, you know, so many people have died in this hotel because it's like, it's literally just like a place where we throw away humans, you know, and
00:22:47
Speaker
This girl stayed there on a trip. She was kind of like backpacking around the country or something like that. She stayed at the Cecil Hotel, even though she should not have been there by herself.
00:23:01
Speaker
And the first couple episodes of this thing like set up her disappearance as like this paranormal thing. And they like show clips of her in the elevator and she appears to be like talking to someone, but there's no one there. And dude, they cut this thing. It was really creepy and weird. And then they get to the third episode and it's like.
00:23:24
Speaker
Oh no, she's schizophrenic and she wasn't on her medications. She literally wandered upstairs talking to herself and fell into the water tank on top of the hotel where she drowned and people showered in that water for however long before they found the body.
00:23:44
Speaker
No, like, it's such a dark, terrible story. And like, they just use it like paint this like crappy ghost story around it, you know, and like purposely mislead the audience for for like hours before telling them like, Oh, no, this is just a person who was mentally ill and like, fell victim to
00:24:07
Speaker
you know, like her her illness and society's indifference, blah, blah, you know, whatever, however you want to characterize
Dixie Chicks and Political Backlash
00:24:14
Speaker
them. But it's just kind of gross. Yeah, you know, it's like the the person that was really like, I don't know, it just turns it into like, oh, no, guess what? She was crazy. Like they do at the end of a lot of movies and stuff instead of or like try and build this like fake
00:24:34
Speaker
sort of thing around it instead of focusing on like following her actual story would have been a lot more interesting and impactful than being like, oh my gosh, what if it were ghosts?
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah, like there's no reason for it. There's no reason for it other than like, we wanted this to be several episodes, we wanted to attract attention and create a buzz. And so we literally just made up a story around it to make it more interesting. The last 10 minutes are like, Oh, well, guess what? Like the last 10 minutes of like the last episode is when they say was actually going on who it felt like anyway. So it's like a
00:25:17
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. Like I said, true crime as a genre is that. That was just a really egregious example of it when you really think about it, you know? Back to the Dixie Chicks. Back to the Dixie Chicks. So we don't have to do the Dixie Chicks part three.
00:25:37
Speaker
So this is after 9-11. It's in 2003. We're really gearing up and banging the drums to go into Iraq. And we talked about last time about how there's a lot of anger in the United States. We were already in Afghanistan. We were hunting Osama bin Laden. The war on terror, by all accounts, was a major success.
00:26:05
Speaker
Well, I think at this point, like it was still like there was a lot of public support for it. It was going relative. I mean, they hadn't. By all from what we knew at home, like things were going well and we were like working our way towards the objective. Yeah. Of destroying terrorists. Or so. Yeah. So they're gearing up for Iraq.
00:26:33
Speaker
it's it's it's literally like we're on the doorstep of the war in iraq and uh the dixie chicks play this concert in london huge and remember i mean we talked about it last time but they're still the top selling female band of all time they're enormous and this is the peak of their fame they go on stage in london and it's in the middle of all these huge anti-war protests all around the world especially in london
00:27:03
Speaker
Very little news of it in the United States, right? Natalie Main is the lead singer who is not related to the other two. Isn't she? No, the other two women are sisters and Natalie the vocalist is not.
00:27:24
Speaker
She goes on stage and she basically says like, hey, just so you know, we're on the right side of things. We're with you guys. We don't support the war in Iraq or this war. We don't want to see this violence happen. And we're ashamed that the president of the United States is from Texas, which is their home state. And so like one media outlet picks this up right off the bat.
00:27:52
Speaker
But it soon turns into just a huge story, big scandal. It's everywhere, all throughout the media. And before long, they're getting a lot of pushback at home while they're overseas on this tour. Yeah, I mean, I remember the evisceration happening. And you're like, I think I said this last week, but it's like,
00:28:19
Speaker
I never liked country music once at any point in my life. I don't think I could, I mean, I'm guessing if I heard the Dixie Chicks have songs that if I heard them, you could tell me they were the Dixie Chicks and I'd be like, Oh yeah, of course I know that. But I couldn't tell you right now with any Dixie Chicks song. And I was like,
00:28:43
Speaker
I had the whole middle finger, the Dixie Chicks mentality at that point, because they're just like... I knew what country music was supposed to stand for, and it was, you know, Team Red, whatever. So there's this expectation that they either promote right-wing ideology... Right-wing ideology was slightly softer at that time. At least there was a lot less, like,
00:29:13
Speaker
The religious component to it wasn't quite as flared up as it is now. But either way, you're still like, I knew it. And I was like anti-dixie chicks and acted like I had any clue about who they were before they said something anti-Bush as though
00:29:35
Speaker
It would have been like someone in the church, higher up in the evangelical institutionalized setting, being critical of it.
00:29:49
Speaker
you would instantly just be like, okay, they're out. They're not part of the team. Like you just kind of have this understanding that certain people are part of your team, even if you're not interested in what they're doing necessarily. Um, and I wouldn't have known who like a big pastor, like Rick Warren, if Rick Warren was like, you know, I'm not for this, I would have been like, well, I guess, uh, farewell, Rick Warren. Uh, even though I didn't give one fuck about who Rick Warren was at the time. Yeah. Like that, the conservatives, like it's,
00:30:17
Speaker
being for the war, for Bush, for your team was huge back then. If you weren't for the war, then you're just like, what are you doing here? Yeah. And to be fair, that was their thing. That's always been their thing. But less angsty about it. Like Casey's already pointed out, most people were for it at the time.
00:30:44
Speaker
You'd probably just find people on the left less likely to want to cancel the Dixie Chicks over it. Well, and so what I didn't understand at the time was that like, you know, we kind of framed this whole thing about like they're feud with Toby Keith.
00:31:04
Speaker
Which might have led to American Toby Keith. So this that actually started before she made these comments and there was like national backlash against her. So in 2002, Toby Keith records releases courtesy of the red, white and blue or the angry American. All right. Like we talked about. Yeah, he was. Oh, he also did American soldier. Yeah. Oh.
00:31:35
Speaker
He's done a few Patriot ballads. Oh, he's I know way more of his songs. He's also 61 now. So that's interesting. But he knows I know way more songs from Red Solo Cup. Gosh, I want to talk about these more. I love what you say.
00:31:55
Speaker
I don't know country but I know all Toby Keith. Yeah, beer for my horses. No, that's a good one. I like to know that one occasionally. I didn't Casey thinks I'm a heathen because I didn't grow up with country at all. I mean, I'm sure some people in New Jersey like country but we I just didn't know anything about it. My parents didn't listen to it. So I don't know.
00:32:21
Speaker
I got to check out Bullets in the Gun. It's a 2010 song, and the video thumbnail is a dude riding a chopper. I'm sure Ash loves that. Man, it's like most of those kinds of songs are ones where people are like, oh my gosh, you need to listen to this. This is such a funny song. And right when they say that, I'm just like, I'm going to hate it. No. I like funny songs. I know.
00:32:45
Speaker
Hate it. I hate funny songs. Don't send them to me. I don't want to hear now. They're always dumb and not in a fun way Who's that comic that did shit that is it Walker Wheeler or Wheeler Walker who does country like comedy? I Know the only I don't know anything about anything about comics or country. So that's it. I
00:33:12
Speaker
I guess I think he, I don't know. Wheeler Walker jr. Apparently Ben Hoffman is a, um,
00:33:28
Speaker
His first album was Redneck shit. He but he did. I hate him already. But he ended up going on a tour, I believe, with Kid Rock at some point. And I hate him even more. Wow. I think I knew. I mean, that name, I associated his name more with music than I did with. I didn't know he was a comedian. Wheeler Walker Jr.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, wheeler. Yeah, real name. So he ended up doing a whole run of podcasts. Like he did Joe Rogan, your mom's house. Something with Joey Diaz. He did Bert Chrysler's podcast, like Joey's joint. He ends up doing like, and he's got like, I was just kind of like really like
00:34:13
Speaker
filthy. I don't know. I didn't find it particularly funny. That is like the least creative you can ever be. He released his first greatest hits compilation called entitled fuck you bitch all the greatest hits.
00:34:30
Speaker
I think I just lost like brain cells. It's like the epitome of someone April would hate. Oh, I hate him so much I don't know what he looks like He's got a song called pussy King, I know you're into disgusting Finger up my butt Fucked by a country boy
00:34:57
Speaker
people that are like, oh, I'm going to listen to this because my mom hates it. Even though they're like 35 and living it by themselves. You got to be you got to have. OK, let's set up the scene where this would be an appropriate thing to play. Never. You are what? You're in a you're in a bucket hat on a
00:35:18
Speaker
A pontoon boat from the 1990s. Faded paint. I was about to say fucking had a TikToker. But no. And you have dried like Budweiser vomit on the front of your chest. Is this about the time that we... Stop it. I thought you were about to drop a name and I was going to say no.
00:35:43
Speaker
Casey, I'm well versed in the internet person thing. I don't drop names. I'll drop hints, but not names. Only if they're like previous youth pastors or something. Yeah, if they're a paid file, then I'll drop their name. That's it. Who did Amy Miller? She dropped the name. That was good. Oh, great. Sorry. I thought you were talking about something else.
00:36:10
Speaker
What about this? I'll set the scene. We have to pause for a second because I just spilled my drink all over. I'm getting too excited. I thought you said you're going to pause because you wanted me to stop talking. Oh my God. I'm going to embarrass Casey. Oh no. Well, it's like his face and his reaction to like, there is a
00:36:34
Speaker
I was like, are you going to, are you about to tell a very personal story about you and Casey? No, no, no. No, there was a time where we went. We hung out. We're going to keep all of this in. Okay, good. Yeah. So, uh, anyway, we went to, we hung out on a lake with some of our group of friends and there was a lot of rednecks around and it was on a boat and it was very annoying. That's the short version. That's the short version. What's the more detailed version?
00:37:06
Speaker
that the one guy's girlfriend was like trying to be all super cool redneck woman and trying to get attention from everybody. And then there was her friend who was also trying to get attention from everyone, including one of the guys there who wasn't there with his girlfriend who was but was dating somebody and she was trying to get with him and stuff. And she used to be nice to me and wasn't because I showed up to Halloween in a costume that was better than hers. This sounds really dramatic.
00:37:33
Speaker
Yeah, it was dumb. It was like 2011 or something. Here's a song by Wheeler Walker Jr. I'll set the stage for. You're in Christian College. You and your girlfriend or boyfriend have decided to save each other, to save yourselves for marriage. But also, one of you is starting to get a little tired of that.
00:38:02
Speaker
You got your young, post-teen, early 20s urges, you know? And you put on Wheeler Walker's 2022 single, God Told Me to Fuck You. I think my ovaries would dry up immediately. Instant racist. You pig! Well, that's why God made Lou, so it'd be okay, still. Dude's getting up into my ovaries? Man, that's a...
00:38:32
Speaker
a long stringy dong there. He's got a toil snake. It just pulls them out. Dude, if you wanted to get into my pants back in college, all you had to do was hit the... We're living, we're living, we're living in extreme days. Oh my gosh. Boom. There's nothing like being extreme in the 2000s. That was the pinnacle. You could be extreme for Christ.
00:39:02
Speaker
That was it. As long as you dropped the E from extreme, you knew you were in Christian territory. Yeah. Like the big X, like everything had a big X on it or a Z, like the letters X and Z were very popular in youth group. A tilted crucifix. Oh my gosh. That sounds like the name of it. Oh my gosh. He's like falling off of it sideways.
00:39:34
Speaker
All right, we've strayed from the righteous path. Anyway. Yeah, you're going to have to figure out how to put this back together. Back to Toby douche. We've got to raise up our glasses against evil forces. That's true, you know. Say whiskey for my man. That's an invisible battle going on all around you. And beer for my horses. What?
00:39:54
Speaker
So before, okay, prior to the Dixie chicks, big comment in 2003, Toby Keith releases this song courtesy of the red, white, and blue, which we all know everybody's heard every fourth of July. Um, and, uh, Natalie mains came out publicly.
00:40:12
Speaker
in an interview and trashed it. Good for her. I love her. Preservedly. Somebody asked her about it. She said, I hate it, she said at the time. It's ignorant and it makes country music sound ignorant. It targets an entire culture, not just the bad people who did bad things. You got to have some tact. Anybody can write, we'll put a boot in your bloop. Booty. Booty.
00:40:40
Speaker
Sorry. The kind of songs I prefer on the subject are like Bruce Springsteen's new songs. Okay. Which is funny because Bruce Springsteen is more liberal and like his songs were always, I don't know. I don't know. That's, that's a tangent. Anyway, go on. He's very well respected, even though he was a, or not on the, anyway.
00:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, it depends on the group, I guess. I guess that's true. I don't know. He was not popular in my circles, but he definitely has a lot more blue collar credibility than most people who are traditionally seen as left leaning. Yeah, maybe that's what I was trying to say. But yeah, so she said that about his song. He kind of fired back like, well, yeah, she says anybody can write it, but
00:41:34
Speaker
she's not a songwriter. So, you know, she because she hasn't written songs before I get I get his argument. It's really, it's making a lot of sense. And you know, I've been watching documentary like I don't know that that's true. I mean, it looked, I'm sure they work with writers and stuff just like most artists, but it seemed like they did have a lot of input into their music. Yeah, like I showed them kind of collaborating like
00:42:02
Speaker
writing in the studio and stuff. I mean, at one point, she's talking about lyrics to a song and saying that they don't really like connect with her. And the guy's like, well, just rewrite it. She's like, wow, that's easier said than done. I don't know. You know, that that whole like so and so doesn't write their own music and blah, blah, blah like that. It's so tired. It's a tired argument. So yeah, OK, the
00:42:32
Speaker
That's kind of where the Toby Keith thing with the Dixie chick started. And and, you know, he also like at his shows, he was like showing this image of Saddam with his arms wrapped around Natalie mains. Yeah. And whoa, like songs of piece of of peace and love, like kind of like an original meme, you know. Yeah. Yeah. He's in culture. Dude, it is funny, like looking back
00:43:03
Speaker
the backlash is crazy. I mean, like, I actually so one of the groups that kind of like instituted the big
00:43:14
Speaker
ban on country radio for the Dixie Chicks was this free republic organization and I couldn't find much about them as a group other than like I found the free republic.com is like a forum and it's still up I mean still there's threads here from like March 2003 I found a thread that says Dixie Chicks boycott coordination thread
00:43:38
Speaker
says, this is a thread for people who want to support a nationwide boycott of the Dixie Chicks for their unbelievable statements in another country. Here in Virginia, I have yet to hear any of their songs and wish to keep it that way for a long, long time. There are a lot of websites out there with online polls that will respond to a good, uh, something, uh, a free, free pin. This is the place for freepers.
00:44:06
Speaker
to post links on... Oh, that's a dead word, I guess. I feel like it's like... It's capital FR, freepers. Are we like capital FR? It's like deciphering ancient hieroglyphs at this point.
00:44:24
Speaker
Dude, like there's just a ton of people posting like polls and contact information for local radio stations. There's a lot of things in here, like the ditzy chicks. Oh, Freaper. Is that free people? Okay. Yeah. Urban dictionary. I don't know. Right-wing political activist, so-called because it is the nickname of the denizens of the ultra right-wing website, Free Republic.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah, so free. Free? Okay. So free in the public is the FR, but like Freeper is like free people. So this one's interesting because it's supposed to
00:45:32
Speaker
There was enough backlash that Clear Channel Radio, which owned more radio stations in the United States than anyone else, kind of quietly and unofficially instituted a Dixie Chicks ban on their stations.
00:45:33
Speaker
by Agent Echo.
00:45:51
Speaker
And there was like congressional hearings over this because I mean, of course it's like, well, you're silencing freedom of speech. You're kind of like, you know, passively engaging in propaganda and, and, uh, you know, we're pressing information and stuff, which is like, it's so weird. It's like echoes of what happens now with Twitter and everything else, you know, and, uh, Joe Rogan.
00:46:17
Speaker
It's like, well, clear channel is now like I heart radio is clear channel. Okay. So they, they're still out there. They've just changed their branding and stuff like that. But, um, I dunno, this is where it really like, like got legs underneath it and they basically just like shut them down on country music radio stations.
00:46:47
Speaker
And they were, you know, it's like, it's hard to, I think it's hard to really understand like how big they were at the time, but it's kind of like, I mean, imagine if like Taylor Swift or somebody like that or Drake or whoever else was all of a sudden just like completely silenced and knocked off the radio. 100%. I mean, it's, it's hard to even imagine that at this point, but this is before streaming and all of that stuff, you know, so like radio was it.
00:47:17
Speaker
You know, yeah, it's like radio, physical sales and touring. Those were like the three ways they could make money or like three biggest ways they could make money, but they needed radio play for sure. Yeah. So that was a, that was a big mess. And then like there's videos of the congressional hearings and like John McCain's in there, like questioning the clear channel guys about them.
00:47:47
Speaker
you know whether or not they boycotted the Dixie chicks and shut them down on their stations and I don't know it's hard to find information about the case or more of the recordings from the hearings and stuff
00:48:04
Speaker
Dude, I don't know. Does it feel to you guys like the internet is just being scrubbed of all useful information? Like you go on YouTube and you search something and like you literally cannot even find the things that you're searching for. You can use exact terms. You can't find the things you're searching for. It just churns up a list of like eight results.
00:48:26
Speaker
which are youtubers, like discussing whatever that thing is, and then it immediately like goes into completely unrelated items that have nothing to do with your search history. Yeah, it's like, here's so and so's reaction. I'm like, I don't want to see so and so surprised face like 20 times. Yeah, reaction video. I just want anything.
00:48:46
Speaker
I want the original content that was reacted to without like interject, like stopping at every five seconds. I don't want to smash that like button.
True Crime Genre Critique
00:48:56
Speaker
No, I don't. Yeah, I guess I'd switch for a lot on YouTube that would be older, but I mean, YouTube is clearly going in a strange direction.
00:49:08
Speaker
YouTube is a whole thing. They recently had this whole thing where they were demonetizing people who said fuck within the first five minutes of a video. They demonetized people who would mention the word COVID as well.
00:49:26
Speaker
Yeah, sure. People talked about it. They had to call it random names if they wanted to even reference that it was happening. And that's what's hilarious. And everyone will just find shitty workarounds.
00:49:43
Speaker
conservatives call it the flu man chew for a minute. And then it was like so embarrassing. And I'm sure no, but no fucking joke. This episode on Spotify is going to end up with a, like that COVID banner under
00:50:00
Speaker
It will. Well, at least people know what they're getting into. Yeah. What a worthless waste of time. That's the good God. That is like the stuff that I hate about everything nowadays. It's like, dude, three people look at that at that.
00:50:16
Speaker
Warning label the first week that it's out and then everyone disregards it. No one goes oh Looks like they're gonna talk about you know what like I don't know if I want to let me let me make sure I'm brushed up on my on my facts about the novel virus before I listen to this no one does it is a worthless institution like I don't know it's just stupid corporate
00:50:42
Speaker
like risk aversion. It's found. Yeah. They're just covering their butts, I guess. But I don't know. Rotten Hills. At the end of the day, all this is all because Fauci wants a solid retirement. He knows that he won't get it if the truth comes out. Oh, my gosh. He's a demon. Amazing.
00:51:09
Speaker
Oh gosh, I'm gonna throw up. We've already said too many trigger words for Spotify. This episode probably won't even air on Spotify now. We said the trifecta. It was like COVID, Fauci, and probably Flu Manchu. I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry.
00:51:28
Speaker
Well, do you want to hear what cable news was saying about the Dixie Chicks at the time? I absolutely cannot wait to hear this. All right. How many of these are Fox News pundits losing their shit? Well, the last one is our old buddy, Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly is hated. Does he make an appearance?
00:51:46
Speaker
that he is
00:52:09
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Deserved to be slapped around. That was O'Reilly. Well, and we know this track record wasn't exactly awesome when it comes to women. Exposing himself a little bit ahead of time, huh? He supports women so much, he gives them $40 million to just live privately.
00:52:33
Speaker
Bimbo is a word you don't just toss around anymore. Bimbo now is like very specifically related to somebody with inflatable inner tube lips and a shit ton of makeup.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's a dude in it. It's it's wild. Looking back on this now, because I mean, at this point, like we all know that history kind of proved them right. Yeah, it was a bad idea. It was like it's insane that it like caused them so much grief just to say what we all should have been thinking at the time. But I don't know. I think
00:53:14
Speaker
One thing that's interesting about the whole deal is that they really didn't like back down from their statements. And, uh, I think I mentioned last time, like there's most of the public statements on this stuff come from Natalie mains, the lead singer and the two sisters that are also in the band. Like you watch the documentary, you really get the impression that they're like, can we just.
00:53:40
Speaker
Can we just play music? Like, we just want to play music, you know? And Natalie's a, she's a tiger, man. She's not backing down on this stuff. And she, at one point, she wore a shirt that said it had, what was the four letter? It was F-U-T-K. Yeah, like Toby Keith. And she claimed that it stood for like Friends United,
00:54:11
Speaker
in something in kindness or something. Like when she was asked about it. I love that. I wanna talk to her now. We gotta get her on. What's she doing these days? Good luck. It's worth an email. Sam might be difficult, but you know. Dude, the worst part of the whole thing though is just watching the documentary and like watching people pick it outside their shows. Like if you at some point, okay,
00:54:41
Speaker
There are very few situations where like if you find yourself outside some event, holding a sign, like you shouldn't just like slap yourself in the face and go What am I doing here? Go get a hot like a real hobby.
00:54:56
Speaker
Like, honestly, what are you doing? If you do that, you're an actual complete and total loser. Yeah, like, who's going to look at a sign on the way to the concert and be like, oh, wow, that person says it is. God. Oh, I should just go home. Dude, there's people holding up signs that are like, try the dixie chicks for treason. So dumb. It's like the guy on the side of our road that has a flag that says, impeach Biden.
00:55:25
Speaker
What a tool. Why do you have that? You don't need to have that. You'll do something. I don't know. The whole thing's crazy. And like, I mean, I don't. Toby Keith, I feel like, you know, he didn't really. There were no consequences for Toby. Yeah, like his his music just was popular and he went on doing his thing.
00:55:51
Speaker
Nobody trashed him for being a douchebag to them. Like he said some really crappy things to them and everyone's just like, and then they say she retaliates and they're just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she said that. Like the reaction was completely opposite.
00:56:06
Speaker
like team self-defense can't believe that she defended herself. So it's insane. They're like, oh, tell the Keith, he's just, oh, whatever. And then they just let him make crappy songs about solo cups for eternity. I love them. They got the steam rollers. Exists like within this certain segment that is not going to have a problem with any of that stuff, you know? Yeah.
00:56:35
Speaker
It's just me being an outsider, I guess. Do you guys remember Sean Connery video or record where he mentions that there are times where women should be able to be slapped around? Have you guys heard that? I think I have, yeah. Maybe, yeah. I think, yeah. It's rough. Sounds familiar, yeah. It's funny because he still gets a bunch of shit for that. That'll still come up from time to time and then you have Bill O'Reilly.
00:57:05
Speaker
you know earlier than Sean Connery I mean later than Sean Connery saying like these people deserve to be slapped around and you're just like oh god Bill like your career survived talking about
00:57:19
Speaker
Yeah, be able to be slow. The amount of shit that Bill O'Reilly's career survived is honestly, we should worship him as a god because I mean, I mean, he is he sort of survived. I mean, he's not at the top of the podcast or sponsored by wooden nickels or whatever. That's aspirational.
00:57:43
Speaker
He's a podcaster sponsored by the We Buy Gold store. We Buy Gold. It's like any early check cashing company definitely pays for advertising spots. What was his final exit from Fox though? Was it actual scandal?
00:58:07
Speaker
I don't even remember. Yeah. Boy, I don't have the details of it offhand, but I believe so. Yeah. Like it was during his sexual assault. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He did that. That's right. Me too. Kelly speak out against him. Or was it? Oh, maybe.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah, we should get some info before we go off on the list. I think the point is, and the one that everyone should take home, regardless of the information that we don't have, is that only one of them was enough, so I didn't get them fired.
00:58:45
Speaker
That's kind of the problem, right? Like, this happened a lot, and then finally he lost his job? Like, okay. Right. And like, people pick and choose who to get mad enough at to shove off. Yep. Oh, that's certainly true.
00:59:03
Speaker
I don't know.
Jared Fogle Documentary Criticism
00:59:05
Speaker
What do we shift? Are we shifting? We don't have enough time to cover six documentaries. We have to talk about the Jared Fogle one. I hated it so much. I hated it. I regret going to Jared. Next time we'll do, maybe by the next episode that we have, without a guest, we'll
00:59:28
Speaker
have all four episodes done of Duggers and we can just hang out on that one for a little while. So Jared Fogel. Well, so I was watching a clip of flagrant two the other day, which is Andrew. Tate. Oh my God, no. Schultz. Andrew Schultz's podcast. And he was talking about how he watched the Candace Owens documentary.
00:59:58
Speaker
She's got one too. Oh Yeah, she's got one about how like black lives matter was a sham or something like that Started it that walked away with millions of dollars, huh? Sorry, I don't not a lighting myself with a canvas I was on anything but there are some things to be said there's definitely a
01:00:21
Speaker
about the organization, for sure some criticism, the movement, not as much. I think she was picking fights about the movement. He's like, so I watched the Candace Owens documentaries and he goes, dude, documentaries should be illegal.
01:00:43
Speaker
It was like talking about how convincing they can be and stuff. And it's so true because, you know, I got family members that. Well, I was going to say. I know. I mean, we've essentially lost. I'm too suspicious. We've essentially lost the whaling market because of them, too. I know. There's casualties of all shapes and sizes. Not fair. Everyone's a victim. Yeah.
01:01:14
Speaker
The blackfish was that what was it? Yeah, the guy ever saw that one the cove and then some shit about why you shouldn't spear dolphins for their Their blowholes or whatever. I don't want people trying to buy for them. I don't know what it's not their book I think you you run their brains through a juicer and then you use it to light, you know
01:01:37
Speaker
making antiquated lamps. What was that on the Avatar movie? It was like this wax that their brain seeps out. They collect it and it's like eternal life. The direction Avatar went in? The sequel, the one that just came out, yes. So on the nose. They really didn't try to argue with those, did they? Yeah.
01:02:02
Speaker
So at least the by at least the Avatar ride at Disney was it fucking visuals were very pretty. That's that's what I'll say. Maybe you want to go snorkeling, but that's about it.
01:02:15
Speaker
Well, so this Jared Fogle documentary, I was really interested in it, because at some point, maybe I think last year, I listened to some sort of a series about it. And we were just talking about it like I cannot find the one that I originally listened to. Yes, we, I swear to God, the one we listened to was Dan Cummins time sock podcast.
01:02:40
Speaker
And both Casey and I remember listening to this and we were looking for it the other day because I was talking to a friend who listens to the TimeSuck podcast. And I asked him if he listened to the Jared Fogle one. And he was like, I never, it must've been before I started listening, which would have been over a year ago. So I went through the full archives and couldn't find it.
01:03:08
Speaker
I don't know what to do. It's like the Mandela effect. Yeah, it is the Cummins effect. Crazy. But we listened to a documentary on it. We listened to the same one and that shit was fucking wild. Like I had no real idea.
01:03:28
Speaker
of how dark that story was.
01:03:46
Speaker
child, I mean, whatever the proper term for it is, like child sex abuse content or whatever, and you're like, oh. Distributing child porn or something like that. Yeah, and then we listened to this documentary on him, or this podcast that chronicled the full fucking story, and it was egregious. This guy had other people take the fall for him, had this well-orchestrated,
01:04:13
Speaker
plan to indemnify himself. He was a complete sociopath.
01:04:21
Speaker
Russell and Angela Taylor. That was his business partner and his business partner's wife and they got a way harsher sentence than Jared because they were actually like making child pornography with like hidden cameras and they were also involved in it with their daughters it sounds like. And it was all through the organization that Jared started which was to like help kids
01:04:49
Speaker
It was like the Jared Foundation. He was like the organizer of it or he was in charge of his face was in charge of it. Yeah. And like Subway really didn't have anything to do with his organization. No, he was the spokesperson for them for a long time. But so there's like this really interesting story.
01:05:14
Speaker
behind the Jared Fogle case. And this documentary covers about 20 minutes of that in three episodes.
01:05:21
Speaker
And the rest of it, it's like so typical of documentaries now, especially, it seems like, okay, the Hillsong one was like literally, it was three episodes, you know, each an hour a piece, and it really could have been like a 30 or 40 minute single episode, it would have been great. But like, they draw it out and they talked to all these people that are like barely involved and stuff, you know? It's like they say the same things over and over again for like two hours.
01:05:51
Speaker
And this one was the worst offender. Like this one is such a piece of crap. It's amazing, like how bad it is. So the whole like most of the documentary follows this this lady named Rochelle Herman, who was she was like a DJ and morning show host on the radio in like Tampa area. It was like Sarasota, Sarasota. That's right.
01:06:20
Speaker
And so she met Jared through some sort of like PR campaign. He was coming there to do something at the local school or something like that. So he was on her show. And right away there's just really like some, there's some things about like the way that she describes her interactions with him that are like, they immediately kind of make you go, wait, wait a sec, what?
01:06:49
Speaker
So they spend the first piece of the documentary talking about Jared's story, about how he was kind of like this kid who was overweight all through his childhood, bullied, didn't have a lot of friends.
01:07:04
Speaker
And that's taken their word for it. I mean, who knows? But anyways, at some point, he decides like he's going to eat sandwiches. And that's his weight loss plan. And that's what he does. But he loses like 200 and some pounds. Yeah. So I'm impressive. It's incredible. It's definitely an incredible weight loss story.
01:07:22
Speaker
Subway gets a hold of that story and they're like, holy crap, this is a massive branding opportunity. And so they bring this guy on to do some commercials for them. And it really like gets people's attention.
01:07:37
Speaker
It's like everyone in the United States who is always looking for a shortcut to everything, including me, is like, I can eat sandwiches. I feel like if it wasn't for Jared and like the Subway diet, Subway would have fucking vanished because their cold cuts aren't really holding that business together. Like that,
01:08:03
Speaker
The subway sucks. It's fucking not funny. Yeah, it's not great. I haven't been to a subway in probably a decade. I would go when I lived in Virginia and I was in college and we would like my wife and I would get like we'd split a five dollar foot. I don't know if they still do them for five bucks, but if they did, they said, well,
01:08:29
Speaker
It's expensive. I stopped there the other day and I got like an Italian sub and a drink and it was $16. Oh shit. Yeah, we were like, this isn't even real food. This is PVC. When we were working, when we were in college, we would get like a, we'd split a $5 foot long and whatever in like
01:08:54
Speaker
Our friends would joke on us all the time because they're like, do you guys remember when you guys used to get like a pack of hot dogs and make it last you six months? And it was like, we were always trying to like save money and because we're trying to move from Virginia back to Massachusetts. So we were like, we kept our budget pretty tight at that time. Life was fairly uneventful. And it was like, I remember learning that
01:09:22
Speaker
one of their sandwiches it was like this chicken teriyaki one oh that's the one i used to get at liberty yeah yeah that one it was it was good i mean by like i'm 20 years old standards but like uh i just remember learning about like the calorie count on that thing was fucking obscene
01:09:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're better off going to McDonald's and you are getting your chicken soaked in like sugar high sugar syrup with like a gallon of high fructose corn syrup with some soy sauce and sesame seeds splashed into it.
01:10:11
Speaker
Oh, geez, yeah. The Asian chicken sandwich. They had the audacity to call it Asian chicken sandwich or some shit where you're like... I was like, sweet teriyaki. Yeah. I'm like, oh, cool, okay. I think I got it. I probably got it with zero add-ons, no vegetables, just the chicken and...
01:10:28
Speaker
With extra glucose. Yeah, I was gonna say. Wendy's had like an oriental chicken salad and it was like... Oh no! It was like some crappy iceberg lettuce bowl and it had some like 30 year old pickled mandarin orange slices on top that were really just like circus peanuts that they soaked in sugar.
01:10:51
Speaker
Oh, that's terrible. I love that they call it Oriental, too, like your grandfather. It's like, that's what my grandfather called Asian people, and you're over here calling it a... So terrible. Yeah, just make your crappy square patties and call it a day.
01:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, come on. So Jared gets some endorsement deals with Subway. And he starts traveling around doing press events with them and talking to kids at schools and whatnot. This lady meets him in the early 2000s. And she says that he came into the studio and was
01:11:33
Speaker
like kind of flirtatious and stuff with her off air and then when they got on the radio show he was like a little stiff and like very uh buttoned up and whatnot so then she does like there's another event that happens and it's like at a school and she says that like they're getting ready to do this event at the school they're sitting together this is like the second time they've ever met
01:12:01
Speaker
Okay. She's already talked about him being like very buttoned up and whatnot. And then she's like, at this time he was like really flirting with me and stuff like that. And right before they turn on the camera, he leaned over to me and he's like, I think middle school girls are so hot.
01:12:20
Speaker
And she's like, I was aghast. I was just, I couldn't believe it. And I knew that I had to do something. So I started my investigation into Jared. Instead of telling somebody, I guess, which I don't know, there's a lot of ways you could go with that. But she's like, I immediately went and applied for my private investigator's license. Yeah, I waited about six months. And then I really started looking into him and just like,
01:12:48
Speaker
in the meantime you could have just called the cops. Or that didn't happen and you made that whole thing up after you found out he liked kids. Her whole way of keeping in touch with him
01:13:04
Speaker
I think this was before that instance, right? Yeah, this was before anyone else knew. She said she had met him at that first initial radio interview and stuff and she goes, they really go out of their way to be like, Jared was Michael Jackson. He was a global celebrity. Everybody wanted to be near him.
01:13:26
Speaker
It's like, nobody cares. Like, he was recognizable as the guy who had big pants, like no one cared about Jared. Big pants in tiny glasses. And like, dude, she goes, her like big hook on like staying in contact with him is she goes, you know, my my six year old daughter would love to meet you.
01:13:51
Speaker
She was like seven. Yeah, elementary age. Yeah, maybe it was seven. But she's like, my daughter would love to meet you.
01:14:00
Speaker
And Jared perked right up. It's like your daughter, who's seven, is enamored with a guy for losing 200 pounds. She can't wait to meet Jared from Subway. What are you talking about? She saw him on a commercial in between reruns of Arthur.
01:14:21
Speaker
Yeah. Although I will say as a PBS person, we didn't have any commercials between Arthur and you know, Bill Nye the Science Guy. So yeah, I was between episodes of Doug. Yeah, or recess.
01:14:38
Speaker
Say it sounds like one of those things where the parents try and get their kids to say something like oh my gosh This person's famous. Do you do you want to meet Jared? Oh my gosh, do you want to meet him? Do I meet him and then she's just like nods her head like okay They like rub their hands or their eyes with the palms of their hands and go It's just cool that this stand-up woman is like using her child as pervert bait and
01:15:04
Speaker
So then she claims he made these comments about middle school. And look, the whole thing with this. I don't like there's no part of me like there's apparently there's groups of people online that are like, you know, Rochelle Herman entrapped Jared, like she led him into these conversations and stuff like that. And like, dude, she taped a whole bunch of conversations with him. The conversations are insane on both of their parts.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yes, like they don't make any sense. They're not useful as evidence and stuff like she claims she's investigating him and trying to like she's working with the FBI to try to like get evidence against him and like everything about her conversations with him is totally worthless in a court setting.
01:15:52
Speaker
None of these conversations that she recorded led to anything. They were not used in court, like during the prosecution and stuff. The whole thing is a joke. It's like she is not important to the story at all. And like the more you listen, the more you're like. Where what was your really your angle here? Yeah, like she had a
01:16:15
Speaker
faux relationship with him for years and would record, she said she recorded every conversation and would do like drops after every conversation, like in the middle of the night to the FBI, black van, blah, blah, blah. It's just like the way that she worded it and she would repeat herself a lot. She would just repeat while I was, you know, working on the investigation with the FBI, like she would have to add like that she was working with the FBI after like every sentence and like, okay,
01:16:44
Speaker
Like, I get it. The FBI and the Indiana State Police, they were not involved in this documentary at all.
01:16:52
Speaker
And they have a guy on there that they keep talking to. He's listed as former FBI agent. But he was not involved in the case. And he's sitting in a car the whole time. Every time they cut to him, he's sitting in a car. They're talking to him through the windshield of the car. And he's like, well, yeah, in these situations, it's really frustrating when you can't get the evidence that you're looking for against someone. So I can understand how she felt in that scenario.
01:17:21
Speaker
It has no relevance to anything that's going on. It's just like some guy who answered phones at the FBI office in Quantico or whatever. That's what you say before you plant a dime bag on somebody. You're just like, yeah, it's super frustrating when you can't get the evidence you want. So you just fucking make it rain pictures of naked children in their locker. And you're like, we got them.
01:17:44
Speaker
Or in Rochelle's case, asked specific questions about what ages of children he wants to bang. Yeah, it's insane to listen to. She goes, she's like saying things like, and that's why like the whole idea that this is like FBI working with her to gather evidence is certain because she's literally saying like, how young of girls do you like? Do you like seven year olds? Do you like nine year olds? Would you like that?
01:18:11
Speaker
which is not admissible like you can't use that for anything in court and he didn't know that she was recording either so that's also it's dude now that you're mentioning all this i do remember hearing about this stuff even in the documentary or i should keep calling the documentary even the podcast that we listened to that covered it because it covered uh i mean really everything there probably was to cover but i remember hearing this and i remember hearing about
01:18:42
Speaker
how like useless the information ended up being. Because you can't, I mean, that is an entrapment type thing. Also like, look, I mean, Jared finally got caught for being a giant fucking perp. So this person, whatever. I mean, if she had an inclination that there was something off about him and she rolled with it, cool. But like what it sounds like,
01:19:10
Speaker
what you're saying is that they made an entire documentary based on her hearsay and not the actual shit that led to an arrest for this guy.
01:19:23
Speaker
Pretty much. Yeah, it was covered in well, they talked to two of the victims, which are the Taylor's daughters and stepdaughters. And they talked a little bit in the in the episodes. But then like the very last episode is where they actually covered what some of what happened to them. And that was like.
01:19:44
Speaker
really terrible, like, disgusting stuff. He started this whole like foundation and kids would go and be in his like he had like a building that he like basically put cameras in and would like video kids showering and changing and shit like that. Like the guy that is original. Good.
01:20:07
Speaker
It's gonna say they didn't even cover some of that stuff like they only covered what happened in their personal house, I think, right? Yeah, they really only talked about like the stuff that Russell and his wife did in their house, which was record their
01:20:23
Speaker
his wife's daughters, which is disgusting. And they talk to them, like that part of the documentary is actually viable and interesting because these are people that were actually involved and affected by it. Not just like trying to figure out how they're going to, I can't figure out if Rochelle is like,
01:20:41
Speaker
Like, how did she end up in this scenario? Was it just like, oh, this is a celebrity and I think I might be able to get him to talk about weird things or something like that? Or, you know, maybe, how did you end up in that conversation with him in the first place? Because her story does not make sense. So like, it kind of makes you wonder if like, she was kind of, maybe she's a little weird too and it just got to a point where she was uncomfortable or maybe she realized like,
01:21:10
Speaker
This guy is important. Like I could use these conversations for something, you know, journalist's brain is just like, Oh my gosh. I don't know. Cause then she talks about like whole, like how I all like ruined her relationship with her children and stuff. Like she like her kids and yeah, that was like Asia and has never been back. They talked to him a little bit in the documentary and he's like, yeah, I'm proud of my mom for like.
01:21:38
Speaker
doing something about it and stuff. Her daughter does not appear in the documentary, but they do talk about her and her mental health state and stuff like that. Dude, it's really shameless. It's gross. Everything involved in Rochelle is just weird and gross and doesn't make sense, and it doesn't lead to anything.
01:22:02
Speaker
And the whole payoff for like her side of the story at the end is that like they they were able to play her tapes for the judge when she was like deciding on sentencing. Yeah. And they're like, oh, they told us like the tapes let us know that this was a pattern of behavior. That was it. Right. Like after the after the evidence that actually mattered was played, they're like, oh, here's a bonus. Here's like, yeah, like here's the fucking director's cut of this perverts life.
01:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the Zack Snyder version. We don't know what means it. Nobody wants it, but it's fair. The Fogle Snyder cut. We're like, yeah. No, we got the full picture. But yeah, we'll listen to your weird videos of you asking him how young of children he likes by starting at 18 and going down a year for 30 minutes until you finally get to him being confused and wondering why he got involved in this conversation to begin with.
01:23:01
Speaker
And she is he does volunteer information, especially toward the end about children and stuff, which is gross. He's a sicko and he's talking to his girlfriend. Yeah, he thinks they're in a relationship. It seems like he does. It seems like that's what she played it off as, like they were romantically involved ish. Got that. Yeah. He got this audacity of like.
01:23:28
Speaker
like he really seemed to start thinking he was invulnerable like yeah like dude you fucking you're the spokesman for fucking sandwiches shitty fucking sandwiches vulnerable like you're clearly going to prison at some point yeah one of the like really like just
01:23:54
Speaker
come on moments of the documentary is they're talking about the toll that this whole ordeal took on Rochelle, you know, aside from like her ruining her relationship with her kids, which is all she cares about, you know, she talks about like how she was she goes, I was diagnosed with trigeminal neuralgia, which is called is known as the suicide disease. And it's like,
01:24:24
Speaker
this neuropathic disorder characterized by episodes of intense pain in the face originating from the trigeminal nerve. And it sounds like kind of a... It's supposed to feel like pain in your face. It says it feels like a similar to an electric shock on one side of the face. And it says even mild stimulation of your face.
01:24:49
Speaker
brushing your teeth, putting on makeup, like brushing your hair can trigger like a jolt of pain, or it can be like a chronic pain sort of sort of thing as well. But she says I was diagnosed with that. And I definitely think that
01:25:04
Speaker
the ordeal with the FBI and with Jared definitely took a toll on my health. And then they show a stock footage of a wheelchair in black and white rolling away from the camera. And it's like, what are you doing? She's not in a wheelchair. You're talking about her having shooting pain in her face. Why are you showing a wheelchair?
01:25:33
Speaker
I don't know. The whole thing was so bad. I know. I didn't know what that disease was at first. I'm just like, Oh man. So then we looked it up and it's like, like your facial nerves. I'm just like, wow.
01:25:46
Speaker
Pretty darn. Apparently, it's called the suicide disease because of the prevalence of people committing suicide due to pain. Yeah, because it can be so painful, but I don't think she called it by its proper name in the documentary. I think she just called it the suicide disease.
01:26:06
Speaker
But I don't know, I could be wrong. The culprit is an out of place blood vessel that rubs against the trigeminal nerve in the side of the face. There is a little asterisk here that says that frequent conversations with the FBI about difficult situations can cause this. So it's possible. It could be. This is hard. The way that it's presented, the way that she talks,
01:26:33
Speaker
is, I don't know. It is like, of course you want to believe somebody. Everyday things like brushing teeth, shaving or putting on makeup. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, she probably got it. But it does sound like this documentary is like, let's take a like, you know, a character to the story who wasn't exactly a main character, maybe had some, I mean, obviously, there's a lot of involvement in her part.
01:27:01
Speaker
Maybe there's like a desperately looking for absolution of being his girlfriend type. Maybe there's, I don't know. It's hard to know the motivation for the doc. Let's be real. The documentary's motivation is to get people to fucking watch it so those bitches can get paid. I mean, that's how you make it.
01:27:20
Speaker
It's like the phone calls were like the only new information, I think, right? Yeah. I feel like documentaries for a while were like people who like spent seven years on something on their like budget where they practically bankrupted themselves and their families.
01:27:41
Speaker
now it's like it's for entered so much of it's for entertainment's sake and not so much for like you know i'm someone who is curious and interested in this and have a story to tell so you can like so like you mentioned the hill song documentary like you really can just
01:27:59
Speaker
take something that's sensationalized and make a documentary. You could be probably paid upfront to make a documentary about it. Jared is an interesting one. Jared is getting out of jail soon or is already out of jail. Have you looked at it? Oh, great. No. Yeah, it was 15 years that he got. Jared Fogel is, I believe, getting out this year, 2023.
01:28:28
Speaker
Oh, yeah, because he got sentenced to like 15 years. Yes. Oh, I'm wrong. This looks like Fogle will not be released from prison until March 2029 at the earliest. Oh, OK.
01:28:48
Speaker
He's got a, the old boy's got a few sandwiches left in him after all. Yeah. And he's probably like, no, just keep me in jail. Cause the second I make it to the outside, I'm going to get murdered. I will watch that documentary. Yeah. He's an Indiana pervert that deserves to be slapped around. Yeah. I know. We got people like, uh,
01:29:17
Speaker
God, I almost said Tucker Carlson, Bill O'Reilly. We got people like Bill O'Reilly just advocating for all the wrong people to get slapped around. Well, if you are curious about the Jared Fogle case, and you do want to watch that documentary,
01:29:38
Speaker
I will tell you, like the first two episodes are almost all Rochelle and they are a waste of time. You can skip to the third one and it at least talks about some of the case and stuff that happens to to get him arrested.
01:29:55
Speaker
And I don't know, for anybody, dude, this is another case of people that cannot separate. Well, if so-and-so is uncredible or blah, blah, blah, then so-and-so must be good. If you think that Jared was entrapped, God, don't be a moron. This had so little to do with why he's in prison.
01:30:25
Speaker
That's what sounds so dumb about the documentary is like the reason he's in jail has nothing to do with the person that the documentary, it should be the Rochelle documentary about her personal experience with someone like Jared. Don't act like it's a documentary all about Jared Fogle and how he ended up in prison because that's not what happened. And it took too long for Jared to go to prison. Like, yeah.
01:30:55
Speaker
And Rochelle just didn't have much to do with that. If she did and was as involved as she thought, he might've gone away sooner. So I think that's what's interesting. It's like, make it, be honest about what you're doing. Make a documentary about the girlfriend, the quote unquote girlfriend of Jared Fogle, where you're like,
01:31:13
Speaker
Here's part of her story, here's part of the story. But to set it up as though it had anything to do with his ultimate indictment is like, it just didn't lead to that. And she clearly got it in her mind that she was like a big time player in what happened.
01:31:36
Speaker
At one point she wasn't getting anything out of it anymore like he had kind of cut contact with her and she was like not getting the payoff she hoped for. And so she like went to the Sarasota PD and was like I have tapes of Jared Fogle talking about pedophile stuff and I'm gonna play him on my radio show.
01:32:00
Speaker
I've been working with the FBI and they're not doing anything about it. So they get like the Sarasota PD involved. They call the FBI and the FBI shows up and they're like, do not do that. This is an ongoing investigation. Do not interfere. Yeah, this could be unsafe for you. It could be unsafe for this person or that person, like all these people.
01:32:21
Speaker
And she basically threatened the police. They should be like, if you don't do anything about this person that is outside of your jurisdiction, then I'm going to play these in public.
01:32:33
Speaker
And no, there's no way that her radio station would have let her do that anyways. It's all just empty threats. And then after the FBI is like, Hey, this is an ongoing investigation. Do not interfere. She's like, they told me that there was an ongoing investigation involved and that I had to, I had to become a ghost. She's just like, shut up, Rochelle. God.
01:32:58
Speaker
Okay, yeah, every every statement was so like overdone. So I think I found
01:33:07
Speaker
I just kind of clicked. Clearly, maybe both of us are creating memories because now I'm remembering that I watched a thing on YouTube about Jared Fogel. It was not the Time Suck podcast. So I just searched Jared Fogel and started scrolling down and found where the red line was full indicating that I had watched it.
01:33:29
Speaker
And it was whatever happened to Jared Fogle, The Subway Guy. It's a video that has 5.2 million views. It was posted two years ago by Vince Vintage. Is that his scene kid name? I think this is what I watched. I know Rochelle shows up in it, or at least some of what she says showed up in it. Okay.
01:33:57
Speaker
But yeah, she eventually ended up on the news. So that's that. I believe it was a whatever happened to Jared Fogle, the subway guy. I mean, five point two million views is a lot. So this one's made its rounds. I'll post that in the in the episode description if you want to check that out.
Efficient Documentary Recommendations and Wrap-Up
01:34:18
Speaker
The only other one I can see is and I didn't watch this one, the case of Jared Fogle from five dollar foot long to felon.
01:34:25
Speaker
That also has 2.7 million views. Obviously, the number of views doesn't actually indicate it's how worthwhile it is, but the one that I had watched on YouTube, apparently, it's only 22 minutes long, and it's really just a pretty straightforward. Here's what the investigation turned up.
01:34:45
Speaker
And that shit is fucked. So if you want to just ruin your afternoon or evening or maybe morning while you're drinking your coffee, uh, learning about the history and story of Jared Fogle, uh, the whole story probably fits in the 22 minutes better than it does in the three hours of documentary video that, uh, the three hour documentary that you guys watched.
01:35:13
Speaker
Yeah, don't be like us and waste your time. You should value your time. And watch the one about the Duggers. So we're all going to be doing that this week. And that'll be the next conversation we have. We're apparently on documentary kicks. So the Dugger one feels quite relevant to at least some of what we're doing here though. Yes, it is so far anyway. Yep, I'm excited to see the rest of it. So
01:35:43
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, thanks April for joining. Oh, thanks for having me. Thanks for allowing me to, you know, walk into a room and. Yeah. We allowed you to because after all we are men and you are nothing but a simple woman who deserves to be slapped around. Oh yes. Or in, in the, uh, the Duggar slash, I forget the acronym for the thing, you know, all I should be doing is baking. Baking. Yeah. You're a mercy giver.
01:36:12
Speaker
Mercy giver that pops out babies. Well, you're clearly failing at one of those. I don't know what to tell you. Honestly, both. It's fine. I've accepted my fate. Well, in hell next to Josh Duggar, ironically. We'll be there together.
01:36:37
Speaker
I'm about to give an old Josh a kick in the nuts. In hell at the CPAC convention. All right, everybody. Well, thanks for listening. We will see you next time.