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Episode 703 - Raw Season Finale
1.2k Plays13 days ago
Is this the end of Thursday Night Raw? We work it all out after taking some more listener submissions of the rawest moments in comics history!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Sign-up
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options. And you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
Meet the Hosts: Chris and Matt
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to War Rocket HX. This is the Internet's Most Explosive Comic Book and Pop Culture Podcast, and we are your hosts. My name is Chris Simms. With me, as always, is Matt Wilson. And Matt, my favorite Thanksgiving dish is pecan pie. Mmm. What was some good pecan pie? It's not Thanksgiving without it. that's Too many I need on Thanksgiving. Uh-huh. but Okay, what are they? What are they? I need pecan pie.
00:01:20
Speaker
yeah And I need to see Goku in the Thanksgiving Day Parade.
00:01:28
Speaker
I am a sweet potato pie partisan, but pecan pie also great. I don't know how I feel about that, Matt. I will make a sweet potato pie. I do. Every year I make sweet potato pies.
00:01:43
Speaker
as You can say you could look on my Instagram and see all the sweet potato pies I've made on Thanksgiving over the years. My favorite Thanksgiving dish is probably sweet potato casserole, even though I also like sweet potato pie. You like sweet potatoes. I love sweet potatoes. Delicious food.
00:02:07
Speaker
I feel like this is a thing I did not actually know about you. I do enjoy sweet potatoes quite a bit. um For some reason, we do not spend Thanksgiving together the way that we always spend Christmas together. That's true. um In the mountains. On Mount Premise, yeah. Yeah. i I have gotten a lot better. I used to not like Thanksgiving turkey, but I have learned some tips and tricks for how to make Thanksgiving turkey that's actually good. Namely, buy a brined turkey or brine one yourself and do something to make sure that that skin gets crispy, which is often to ah rub it with oil before you put it in
Thanksgiving Food Debates: Mac and Cheese
00:02:57
Speaker
the oven. The other thing I want to make clear here is that if you think mac and cheese is not a Thanksgiving side dish,
00:03:05
Speaker
change your heart. That has been one of the most difficult transitions of moving to the north. No mac and cheese? that People up here don't seem to know that mac and cheese is, I mean, it's it's it's a Thanksgiving food for sure. It's an every holiday food.
00:03:26
Speaker
It's an everyday food. I mean, yes, but you but look, if I have a day without mac and cheese, which I've had a lot of lately because I don't eat a lot of pasta anymore, that's fine. If I have a Thanksgiving Day without mac and cheese, buddy, I'm upset. Sure, sure. That's like having Thanksgiving Day without Goku. And without Al Roker saying what he did last year, which is the phrase, Goku is a hugely popular guy.
00:03:57
Speaker
You know, I can't, I can't argue with that. He's right. I can't argue with that. It's true. There was an argument, like an online argument, I want to say like three years ago, about whether mac and cheese was a Thanksgiving day side. And if you believe that it's not, you were on the wrong side of history. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, sorry bud. Sorry.
00:04:23
Speaker
Like, cause why would, like, why would you not want it to be if you didn't know that you could have mac and cheese on Thanksgiving? I'm not going to fault you for that. Yeah. But now that you've been told that you can have mac and cheese on Thanksgiving, why would you not want to? I feel like the people who say that have only ever had bad macaroni and cheese. Yeah. I mean, it's gotta be good. Like instant boxed macaroni and cheese.
00:04:54
Speaker
You gotta make the baked stuff with the cheese on top that's got good. Throw some breadcrumbs on there. Do not put peas in it. Do not put peas in it. For crying out loud. somebody Matt, i I haven't told this story, I don't think, on the show because because it was them trying to do something nice for me. But I went over to some Minnesotans' place for Thanksgiving a couple years ago after I first moved up here. And they were like, well, Chris, we know you're from the South.
00:05:24
Speaker
So we made mac and cheese. Cause we know that's, that's a thing down there. And I was like, all right, great. Hey, thank you. That's, that's really trying to make me feel welcome. And I do appreciate that. They gave me that mac and cheese and I was like, m so this has peas in it. And I was like, and that's on purpose. That's what they wanted to give me, man. Yeah.
00:05:52
Speaker
You ever go over to a friend's house to eat and the food just ain't no good? That's a relatable verse of a song. Yeah. Hey, everybody. It would've been fine, but it had peas in it. Hey, everybody. I know we did Thursday Night Raw last week, but we're doing it again this week, and here's the reason why. Which, like mac and cheese on Thanksgiving, it could be Thursday Night Raw every day. That's true. Here's the reason why.
Show Announcements and Patreon Thanks
00:06:23
Speaker
we have we're we're not gonna do a show the week of thanksgiving which this is going up the week of thanksgiving but i mean we're not going to record the week of thanksgiving so we're taking next week off here's your warning of that we will do in every story ever though so you'll get that yes then after thanksgiving we have two guests booked for the first two weeks of december then our next episode after that is the Christmas show. So, our year is booked up. This is our last opportunity to do Raw, and it might be our last Raw ever. I am calling this, based on my wikipedia page my most visited Wikipedia page, list of WWE wwe Raw special episodes, Raw season finale.
00:07:17
Speaker
which they have called some episodes of Raw That. How can they call episodes of Raw That? It's on every week. They have had episodes that they've called season finales and season premieres. They're always in September. Okay, that's weird. One of the major selling points of that particular television show is that like there's there's no off season. It's always on. Actually, they recently started doing season premieres in October, but they're always in the fall. But yes, and okay I think it's just a way to get to try to get people to watch as they call... Well, I mean, Matt, if every single episode of Monday Night Raw that is on that Wikipedia page... Yes, it it's a gimmick. It's a desperate attempt to get someone to watch.
00:08:03
Speaker
Really, the season finale of wwe WWE is WrestleMania, right? like yeah that is the end of That is the culmination of all storylines. I kind of feel like the Raw after WrestleMania is like a season finale in that it's like the cliffhanger to get you to come back. I think the Raw after WrestleMania is like a season premiere. Well, that's what they that's what that's what a lot of people see it as, but you you know what I mean? like Yeah.
00:08:32
Speaker
like it's the like, oh, make sure you're here next time kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think it's the way to like a season premiere, like to start storylines and get you hooked and debut new characters and all of that kind of stuff. But I see what you're saying. Yeah. So that's the next generation season finale.
00:08:56
Speaker
We're going to do raw on this episode. This is raw season finale. Will it be our last raw? we will discuss a little bit later what maybe we think we're going to do um as far as next year. So hang around for that. But Chris, before we get to that, we do have businesses to take care of starting right here at the top of the show with thinking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. Now these are the people who went all the way down to 703 gimmick street. And of course, you know what's down there. Oh, it's the anarchist bookstore. It's the anarchist bookstore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
Hey, the Anarchist bookstore gets shit done. There is one here, and I will shout them out. They are called Firestorm Books. I do not know if they are named after the DC Comics character. I would guess, Matt, given that it's an Anarchist bookstore, I guess that's a much more literal name. Yeah, I would i would agree. Than Ronald Raymond.
00:10:01
Speaker
Firestorm Books, when Hurricane Helene hit town, got moving. Those anarchists who run that bookstore gathered people together, started getting supplies ready for everybody, and distributed. They got it fucking done. And here's my shout out to them for being Genuinely great through the disaster they hit our community How does that compare to how the gimmick street and our kiss bookstore, ah which I don't I don't know the name of I Mean it could also be called firestorm books, but it's it's actually called it's actually called pojar Who was the Russian firestorm i got that joke Which is why he's laughing now
00:10:59
Speaker
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, Pojar. That's such a specific deep cut. Pojar Books is the name of the Giving Street anarchist bookstore. Yeah, I don't know how they compare. But while you're on your way to the the anarchist bookstore, don't forget that you are still living under capitalism for now. And that means that a great way to help me and Matt keep existing under capitalism, especially me, because I don't have a day job right now.
00:11:29
Speaker
is by going to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax, where you can kick in as little as a dollar a month to help us keep making the show, keep doing stuff like every story ever, keep doing stuff like movie fighters. ah where We had a very fun episode of that recently, where we morphed. Yeah, we warmed it all up. We sure did. On that one. i I had a suggestion for the December movie fighters, which you did not react to. Well, no, because we we settled what we're going to be doing for the December movie fighters, which is hard target.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, that's right. That's our Christmas. We're making Hard Target a Christmas movie. Okay. yeah Yes. Yes. That's our gift to ourselves because it's been, ah it's been a hard year. everybody is You ain't kidding. ah But your support there does help the show and directly helps me on that and helps us to pay those gimmicks. They keep sending in the mail called bills because they do keep sending them. They sure do.
00:12:25
Speaker
Here is our newest Patreon supporter, Philip Flores. Hey, thank you, Philip. We also got a few people upping their donation on Patreon. If you upped your donation and would like a 2024 t-shirt, if you reached that level or need the line step or password or something else, message me on Patreon and I will get you those things.
00:12:54
Speaker
Um, but if you would like to become a new patron to join the 401 currently paying patrons on our Patreon, you can head to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax and kick in as little as a dollar a month, as Chris said, to help us continue to do this show weekly to do movie fighters. This next situation to do comics catch up. We just did a comics catch up about exterminators from 2022. Every story ever specials, all of those are made possible by your support on patreon.
00:13:23
Speaker
And as a patron, you get every single one of those shows, every show that we do completely ad-free. And also as a patron at various levels, you can get bonus content that is exclusive to the Patreon, audio that we record, writing that we do. There's a whole archive of stuff over there on the Patreon that you can go check out and that we are constantly adding to.
00:13:49
Speaker
Line stepping privileges for our segments, which currently include Thursday Night Raw and Every Story Ever, and physical rewards. All of those things are at different levels of the Patreon, so go jump in if you feel so inclined to do so. ah We would very, very much appreciate it if you did.
00:14:12
Speaker
If you are unable to help us monetarily, you can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use, whatever it may be. Or you can just do some word of mouth, spread the word about the show, talk to your friends on social media and elsewhere about this podcast that you like. And maybe get them to listen. And then when you get them to listen, get them to back our Patreon. Ha, ha, ha.
00:14:40
Speaker
Then we can get up to that funny weed number 420. We need 19 more to do that currently. I think that's very in reach. It's within and reach. Very achievable. We have thanked our Patreon supporters, which means it's time for some checks and recs. What do you say? Let's do it. Chris, what would you like to check in with this week?
Chris on 'Berserk' Cliffhanger and Reactions
00:15:04
Speaker
Matt, if there are people out there and they're like, Hey,
00:15:09
Speaker
I don't have a reason to support the Warwick at Ajax Patreon because they've already talked about Berserk for two hours. hu You may want to rejoin. What more could there be? Because I finished the Kintaro Mira Berserk.
00:15:33
Speaker
I got to the end of I think it's volume 14 of the Berserk Definitive Edition, which is which contains Kentaro Miura's last installment before he sadly passed away, which I didn't realize was was coming quite when it did because there's a lot of book left after that. And what they do with the rest of that book is they reprint like the entire like Berserk guidebook and fan, like like not fan book, but like, here's everything about Berserk. Yeah. Yeah. So I got kind of ambushed by the end of Berserk. By the massive cliffhanger ending of Kintaro Bura's Berserk. Yes. Yeah. Which if it was the last Berserk, like if that was the end of Berserk,
00:16:33
Speaker
and we never got any more. It is the darkest ending and most harrowing ending and most like depressing ending that any book could ever have. And it made me so mad. Not and ah not in a bad way, like I'm not i'm not angry with Kentaro Miura for dying far younger than he should have. i It made me mad at at, well, a guy that I'm always mad at. Yeah, right. Fucking Griffith, you know, femto of the God hand. There's I'm of two minds about that ending, which we're, we're talking all around it, we should probably save it for when we talk at length. Oh, yes, we're gonna need to talk about it. Yeah. But I feel like that ending is you can read it as
00:17:30
Speaker
oh fuck that, fuck him, all of that. I also think you can kind of read it as, what's he gonna do? You know, like like, there's a moment there, like, the story has continued and now you know what happens, or I do, but like, there's an ambiguity to that ending that is fascinating to me. There is an ambiguity to the ending and it is very much a thing of like,
00:17:59
Speaker
I desperately want to know what happens next, but the look on Guts' face on the last page is the look on my face on the last page. Yeah, yeah. ah That is fair. So we will have to talk at length about ah ah about, I guess, the rest of Kentara Miura's berserk, which I suppose we could do as a comics catch-up if we were so inclined. Maybe that's the the January comics catch-up? Maybe, but like, I do feel like, I mean, it's not like we would have to read it, because we have both read it, but also that's a lot of ranking.
00:18:46
Speaker
Cause there, I feel like there are a lot of distinct stories. If we, if we called the golden age and the black swordsman arc, uh, separate then. I don't think it's that many. I don't know. I'll have to go look at which, which stories are included. I mean, Matt, we, we would have to talk about father mausgus a lot. Yeah, yeah but i the that is one big long arc immediately after, uh, the golden age.
00:19:13
Speaker
We'd have to talk about um going into Casca's mindscape and Kentaro Miura's extremely subtle monster designs for that segment. They're so subtle. They're so subtle. um It's like you you read it and you're like, what's he trying to say here? We'll figure it out, but I don't think... I don't think it's as many stories as you... Because the conviction arc is long.
00:19:43
Speaker
The conviction arc is long, but like, we, the, okay. We'd have to talk about those kids that turn into bees. Yeah, we'd have to talk about when Guts gets his talking to from the blacksmith. Yeah, we'd have to talk about ah Father Mosgus, which is a big chunk of it. i think I think you could count that as all, like kind of all the, the farness stuff could be one. Well, but that's all in the conviction arc. Every bit of that is in the conviction arc.
00:20:13
Speaker
I don't know, we'll figure it out. We're not talking about them damn ghost pirates. Yeah, yeah. ah You are kind of the best. We will see. I do think that that section of Berserk, where they're waiting to get on a boat and then they get on a boat, is probably the worst part of Berserk, but we'll get into it. The boat stuff is Other than some of the Black Swords monarch, I think the boat stuff is my least favorite, but I do really like the the the one girl who joins the RPG party after that. Yes, yes. All right.
00:20:57
Speaker
We'll do it. I have finished all of Kintaro Mira's Berserk. It's fucking great. Like the the mindscape bit that we were just talking about is one of my favorite parts of Berserk. Yeah, it's good. oh It's extremely good. And that's like right near the end. If you listen to this show, you know this. But if you have not read Berserk, Matt and I both wholeheartedly recommend it. oh And now that I've now that I've gotten to ah through all of Mira's stuff, it is ah I have a lot of feelings about it in a way that I haven't really felt about a piece of media in a long time. Matt, what have you been up to this week?
Crisis Averted: Asheville's Water Situation
00:21:37
Speaker
Well, Chris, ah I have ah a small update, a small but major update in my life. And that is that on Monday of this week, as we're recording this, we finally got potable, drinkable water back here in the city of Asheville.
00:21:58
Speaker
So, your boy turned on the ice maker. Woo!
00:22:08
Speaker
Got ice coming out. but Not having to make ice with bottled water anymore. I can turn on the bathroom faucet for my cat for her to drink. That is that is ah that is what is going on in my life. That is that is what we call a small victory.
00:22:27
Speaker
that I will take. And those are those are sometimes the best ones. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not just a small victory. It was a Herculean effort by our local government to get the water back on. so And that they the original prediction, the original window for when that was gonna happen was like mid-December. So they were a full month early.
00:22:57
Speaker
That's right. And getting, getting drinkable, safe water back. Um, so, uh, you know what? I will take it. I can go, as I was telling Chris before we started recording, I can now go back, go to a restaurant and get a beverage that isn't just like a can of Coke. Like they have soda fountains and tea and like,
00:23:24
Speaker
water that they can serve you now. ah So that is that is a nice thing. There's still a ton of work to be done ah locally. And if you're you're looking for a national area charity to donate to, let me say Pisgah Legal is doing a lot to help people get like federal relief funds and stuff. So that would be a good one to to point some funds to if you want to. Also,
00:23:54
Speaker
AEW Dynamite is going to be in Asheville on New Year's Day doing Fight for the Fallen, doing a benefit show for Helene.
AEW Dynamite's Asheville Debut
00:24:06
Speaker
Oh, that's great. And I'm going to be there. You know I'm going to be there. Very exciting. That is the first time televised wrestling has been in Asheville at the Asheville Civic Center since Monday Nitro. Wow, really? Yes.
00:24:24
Speaker
That's wild. w WWE has come here for like live events at UNC Asheville a couple of times, but as far as like televised wrestling, you know, that is actually on TV, first time in Asheville that I know of since Monday Night Raw. Incredible. well I'm very happy that you have that to look forward to, Matt. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be a fun time.
00:24:52
Speaker
Time for some recommendations. What do you have to recommend, Chris?
TV Show and Comic Recommendations
00:24:55
Speaker
Matt, I talked about watching a lot of bones lately. hu ah And I got a text message from our mutual friend, one of the best, one of the Alzheimer's, El Collins. And they told me, you know, my go to background noise procedural is evil.
00:25:20
Speaker
And a couple of days ago, I texted you and Benito and I said, hey, have y'all ever heard about evil? And Benito said, I have recommended it to you on a podcast.
00:25:32
Speaker
Which I feel like Benito now hasn't like is imagining a ranking of my friends that I don't actually have because I did listen to Elle Collins.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I do not recall Benito saying this to me at all.
00:25:55
Speaker
i I love them both equally. ah But I started watching Evil um mainly because I got to the s Sleepy Hollow crossover episode of Bones and ah AC wasn't home and I was like, hey babe, do you want to watch the Sleepy Hollow crossover? And she was like, yes, absolutely. So had to had to stop for a little bit.
00:26:18
Speaker
The first couple of episodes, they're not bad. It's not a bad show. But it definitely had a thing in the first couple episodes where I wasn't sure if it was good or not. And I was watching it and I was like, this needs to be 10% better to be good and 30% funnier to be fun.
00:26:44
Speaker
And about seven episodes into that first season, it is way more than both of those. It picks up, and I define the moment that it picks up as when the main character, I said, it's when she stops being great value, Clarice Starling, and starts being great value, Will Graham. Right. And AC started watching it also on my recommendation, because I i could not wait to tell her about this show, because I love having a thing where I can say, good news, babe. And then catch her up with the most ridiculous things that are happening. She fully agrees with me on that. The premise of this show, which is on ah Paramount Plus, which I of course have, it that's the Star Trek app. It's the app where Star Trek lives.
00:27:27
Speaker
ah It is ah ah Mike Colter, Netflix's Luke Cage, plays an assessor for the Catholic Church whose job it is to decide if an exorcism is warranted.
00:27:44
Speaker
So they get a request for exorcisms and he goes to ah to see if it's an actual demon or if it's just somebody who's ah mentally ill or faking it or whatever. The tech guy, his partner, is of course my close personal friend, Asif Manvi. I don't know why he didn't tell me about it, but usually whenever I see him, he's busy being in Spider-Man 2.
00:28:14
Speaker
So right right he is the tech guy, and he is a ah he's an atheist. ah Mike Colter is in training to become a priest. And they wind up hiring a forensic psychologist ah who is played by Katja Herbers, ah who I am unfamiliar with, ah but who who is Dutch, despite the fact that I feel like the great value Clarice Starling thing came from the fact that she seems to have a slight Southern accent.
00:28:45
Speaker
they call But she is a forensic psychologist who is a lapsed Catholic and an agnostic who winds up getting hired and they go in and and ah ah she the they're they're the team, right? They're the exercise assessment team. Then a bunch of demon stuff starts happening. But more importantly for you, Matt, a bunch of character actors start showing up.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like you and Benito have talked to me into potentially watching this show. i i I have an aversion to network dramas, but the fact that Evil then made the jump to streaming and that the first season from when it was on a network is only like 13 episodes. I could give it a try. Yeah. And it actually like the weird thing is I feel like I don't know if it gets a bigger budget when it goes to streaming. That doesn't sound right. No. But I do think it gets... like It feels like it does. Because they start doing more interesting things. like they They add like a framing sequence to the show that's actually like really fun. um But yeah, man, I'm talking about... I'm talking about ah ah Wallace Shawn.
00:30:10
Speaker
You know you love Wallace Shawn. The young Sheldon's own Wallace Shawn, yeah. I'm talking about the god John Glover? The only man to play three DC Comics supervillains?
00:30:27
Speaker
I'm talking about a veritable parade of that guys. Highly enjoyable, highly recommended. I had literally, well, I guess I had heard of it and then completely forgot that I heard of it, but I had not heard of it before Ella Collins told me about it. If you haven't heard of it, give it a watch. Again, it's good. Like it's it's certainly watchable from the start. It gets ramped up hard and is a real hoot. And it was created by ah Robert King and Michelle King, who also are the creators of The Good Wife.
00:30:56
Speaker
ah which I didn't know about until ah AC reminded me. So ah that is my recommendation. Give that a watch. it's It's a good time. Matt, what is your recommendation this week? Chris, my recommendation is, look, it's not not something anyone listening to this show has not heard of, but it finally hit Disney Plus over the past week. And so When I saw that it was available to sh stream, I was like, yeah, I guess I better watch that. I did not go in with extremely high expectations, but as it turns out, Deadpool and Wolverine is fun and good. And I really enjoyed watching it. There is a scene. Now I knew about this from the trailers. I knew that there were like a bunch of different versions of Wolverine that appear in the movie.
00:31:52
Speaker
But there's a scene where Deadpool goes searching for a Wolverine that he can work with through all these different universes. And it is like a buffet of references for us. Like specifically us, Chris.
00:32:20
Speaker
like every Wolverine that appeared, I was like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah. Like, this one is in the trailer, so I can i think I can give it away. Like, one of them's fucking Patch. And like, even in the trailer, but even in the trailer when I saw Patch, I was like, that fucking Patch? So like, it's it's good. And then the rest of the movie,
00:32:50
Speaker
Like, obviously it's it's very self-referential and there's, you know, a lot of R-rated jokes. You know, we talked about this in our episode, our catch-up episode about exterminators, where it's like, superheroes shouldn't be talking like that. But I expect it from Deadpool. And i can I think I can forgive Wolverine talking like that. I mean, you know, it's it's no surprise that Wolverine hekata has got a real potty mouth. He's 150 years old, man. Yeah. There is some stuff. Okay, i I'm going to spoil a cameo. So if you don't want to be spoiled on this cameo, skip ahead a little bit. There's a whole gag in the movie about Chris Evans showing up and Deadpool thinking that he's Captain America. I did know about this one.
00:33:50
Speaker
And then the joke is that he's not Captain in America, he's Johnny Storm from the Fantastic Four movies. There's a good amount of stuff where Johnny Storm is just cus cussing up a storm. And that is one part of the movie where I was like, no, no.
00:34:19
Speaker
Johnny can talk like a dumb guy, but he should not be saying all these R-rated words. That's not the Johnny I know,
00:34:31
Speaker
but ah nonetheless, it is a a I have nitpicks here and there, and obviously there's some stuff in the movie that I ah don't love, but I think generally the movie is really good.
00:34:48
Speaker
Emma Corin plays Cassandra Nova and they are fantastic as Cassandra Nova. One of my complaints about the movie is the way Cassandra Nova is written. Because I don't think we get a good idea of why Cassandra Nova does anything she does. And there's like a weird shift in her goals at one point that is totally unexplained. But The acting is really good. The cameos are really fun. The comic book references are, as I said, for us. So if you had a worry that, you know, dead Deadpool and Wolverine might be able to edgelord for you, I don't think it is. i In fact, I think I like it more than the other two Deadpool movies.
00:35:49
Speaker
Okay, wow. Which I kind of have weird mixed feelings about, you know? So that's my recommendation. Chris with that. Would you say she's more of a more of a Grant Morrison Cassandra Nova or more of a Chris Simpson Chad Bowers Cassandra Nova? Probably Grant Morrison. Oh, okay. But there's maybe a little bit of Chris Simpson, Jed Bowers in there. All right. All right. I'll take it.
00:36:19
Speaker
Chris, with that, it's time to talk about some comics. What do you say? Let's do it. Chris, I have had a very busy work week, which has meant that I've had no time to read comics this week. So, Chris Simms, take the wheel. Let's start with the comic you were aching to talk about, Jenny Sparks number three. Right when America needs it most,
00:36:48
Speaker
Right when we need some healing, right when I'm feeling down, when when when things are seeming kind of dark out there, along comes Jenny Sparks, number three, to to really just brighten things up. And it does brighten it up, because I find it very comforting to know that you get the same page rate if you're a writer, even if you're just like pasting quotes. That's good.
00:37:20
Speaker
That's a good thing to know. That's a happy thing. I will say it's probably the best issue of Jenny Sparks so far. are but All right, small victories. Yeah, yeah. it's that There is a scene in here that I do kind of genuinely like. It's ah it's about um two panels long, so that's fun. But also, it's it's it's Jenny Sparks.
00:37:47
Speaker
ah Jenny Sparks says, ah at one point, I'm the 20th century. And ah and what does she say? She says something nonsense. I'm the 20th century and ah and I'm not done with you yet or whatever. I read this book two today. Here we go. Here we go. I'm the 20th century and I ain't going nowhere. ah And that's not how time works.
00:38:17
Speaker
Um, and I do feel like the problems of the 21st century, like the whole thing is like, like, I guess the legacy of the 20th century and like the things that are, are, are like the problems in the world are still around and that's why Jenny Sparks is still around. But that is, that would be all of time.
00:38:44
Speaker
if that Also, that's wrong. We have whole different problems now. Yeah, like A, we have different problems. And B, if it's like that the problems are so are compounding the things that have come before, that's just called causality. And that goes back to all of time. Like, there are things that happened in the 20th century that certainly had their roots in the 19th century. So where was Ginny the Loom? Or whatever her name, I know that there's Ginny Steem, I think was the 19th century. I think it was Ginny Steem, yeah. Yeah, Ginny Steem might have had some things to say up through 1924. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense, even within the the the context of like, like, I see what you're getting at. But it doesn't make any sense.
00:39:37
Speaker
You know? But yeah, best issue so far. So it's got that going for it. I think, I think maybe, I think it's obvious and I never like to to say this about creators because you never know what's going on in anybody's head, you never know what their motivations are, but I do kind of feel like Tom King hasn't seen the pilot of Deep Space Nine.
00:40:02
Speaker
Because if he had, he would understand linear time a little bit better. He would have had linear time explained to him by Benjamin Sisko. This is by Tom King and Jeff Spokes, by the way. Yeah. ah So, next up, Chris, you wanted to talk about TMNT X Naruto, number one. Right. Matt, do you know anything about this book? Not a thing. Don't look at it.
00:40:30
Speaker
don't look Don't look at it right now. okay If you're going to look at it, stop. This book is written by someone you know. like ah like ah Like I know personally? Someone that you know personally. Someone that you have talked to. Okay. Can you guess who wrote TMNT X Naruto?
00:40:51
Speaker
Oh, did Caleb Goldner write write it? Caleb Goldner wrote this! Yeah, i I knew that he was doing some Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles stuff. ah So, ah cool. That's cool. Yeah, I, uh, Caleb, for those of you who might not know or might have forgotten, ah was our editor at Comics Alliance. For a while, he was one of the one of the OGs at ah Comics Alliance, along with ah me and Laura Hudson and I'm trying to think of who else was there like at the very start of it. It was like maybe David Brothers was there. I think and Andy Corey came in later. I ah looked at this and saw that Caleb had written it and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. ah Because if I tell you someone that you know wrote TMNTx Naruto, that's him. A thing that I love in this is that ah this starts with ah the Naruto teens.
00:41:48
Speaker
you know, Naruto and Sakura and the Naruto teens.
00:41:56
Speaker
I want I want to say Sasuke. Yeah, that's Sasuke. And then and then the dude with the the dude where you can only see one of his eyes. I don't know if he's got two eyes, but you can only see one of them, that guy. They're taking April O'Neill, who went to the leaf village, the hidden leaf village ah for a story, back to her home in Big Apple Village, which I thought was very funny. Very fun stuff. I also know very little about Naruto, but I know about TMNT. I know about the ninjas.
00:42:35
Speaker
Good stuff. It's nice to see someone that we know doing the comic that they absolutely should be doing. That's right. it i If I didn't remember that Caleb had done this, I would be like, sounds like Caleb Goldner. One last comic, Chris, you want to discuss was Batman and Robin year one, number two. Yes. ah This is ah a Batman and Robin book.
00:43:04
Speaker
ah that is co-plotted by Mark Wade and Chris Somney with a script by Mark Wade and art by Chris Somney. And ah guess what, Matt? Tell me. It's good. I bet. Yeah, all easiest sell in the world. I do think what is notable about it and what I think like, we've we've talked a lot about Mark Wade and how Wade's just a guy who gets it with DC Comics.
00:43:34
Speaker
like comics in general, but like DC Comics in particular is like, yeah, he gets it. And I love that, I love that his, uh, approach to Batman and Robin is Batman being very forgiving of and even like, even like encouraging of Dick Grayson's natural, like, kidness and circus kidness and, like, showmanship. And it's it's not just like, you know, gru Grumpy Guy gets a kid, right? It's Bruce understanding that, like, Dick needs an outlet for this rage because they're very much the same. But
00:44:29
Speaker
he's a different person and he's not gonna be like Bruce. ah Like early on, I think it's in the first issue, ah Alfred says, or Batman says, yeah, I don't have any experience being a parent. And Alfred says, yeah, you don't really have a lot of experience being a child either.
00:44:50
Speaker
which I think is is very, like that's very spot on to Bruce Wayne. Whereas Dick Grayson, like the scene where he introduces himself to Commissioner Gordon in this book is fantastic. oh Primarily because Gordon's initial reaction is, are you fucking nuts? Which, you know, legit complaint, legit complaint. But yeah, the the interplay between them is really good in this.
00:45:15
Speaker
um There's a lot of comedy in it, and it just plays really well. ah Plus, number two has a cutaway in the Batcave, baby. Whoo! Whoo! Your boy loves a cutaway. Great stuff from Wade Insomni, who is absolutely fantastic. Clayton Coles does the lettering, also fantastic. Giovanna Nero does the coloring, also fantastic. So good jobs all throughout. Well, all right.
00:45:46
Speaker
We went from from a bad one to a good one, which is a pretty good progression. Chris, now that we have talked about, or you have talked about some comics from this week, it's time to get raw.
Ranking Raw Comic Moments
00:46:00
Speaker
Let's do it. there was no signing or dreaming of me and my bra lived like a man but i'm animal Chris, our first raw submission comes to us from David from Norway.
00:46:12
Speaker
David has this submission from Uncle Scrooge number 290, Terror of the Transvaal, which is chapter 6 of the Life and Times. After Flithart Glomgold steals all of Scrooge's stuff and leaves him to fend for himself in the middle of the sa South African wilderness, scope Scrooge flips out on all the wild animals of the Savannah and finally returns to town riding a big lion.
00:46:41
Speaker
yeah man That's pretty raw. Yeah, man. That does it. Yeah. but Like, there's, I think, I think there's maybe one other scene in Life and Time to Scrooge McDuck, ah the the the issue that's in Alaska, where he just like flips out ah And goes up like does a does a Samson with the pillars ah That that would edge it out, but I mean He does he does a rock back in ah using like riding a lion, which is pretty good Yeah, he he he flips his shit after glom gold leaves and
00:47:35
Speaker
like jumps way, way into the air and he says, uh, nobody double crosses Scrooge McDuck. And they're the, like he's framed by these two elephants on either side of him who were like flipping out. He, he knocks over a tree onto a rhino. And then, yeah, there's like this whole showdown with this lion where the lion roars at him and then he roars back at the lion. And then yes, finally he, he rides back into town.
00:48:06
Speaker
on that lion. yeah And and it's it's bad ass. I'll go Scrooge, man. He's great. Life in Times is so good. Yeah. This is like younger Scrooge too, where he looks kind of like Donald. Yeah. And I think like that's the like that's the thing is kind of the the defining kind of characteristic for Donald.
00:48:36
Speaker
and like in Barks and Rosa, like much less so in like the actual cartoons, is that he he flips out, right? Like he, there was that bit in that up ah Uncle Scrooge and the Infinity Dime thing that we we read where it's like, oh yeah, we've been, we've we've had all the the Donald ducks and they've been dropping wrenches on their feet all day.
00:49:01
Speaker
To see Scrooge also like, Like, oh, right. That's, that's where it comes from. Like this is a, this is a family thing. It's a family tradition. Like when in the great outdoor fight. Right. It's a family tradition to get so mad that steam comes out of your ears. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's good stuff, man. That's good stuff. I like it. I like a lot. And and it's raw. It's like, it's a different kind of raw than we normally
00:49:36
Speaker
have submitted to us, because it's it's not the kind of thing that would happen in a superhero comic, per se. But it is very much raw in its own right, yeah just just in a somewhat different way. So give me give me the spot. Well, looking at the list, I mean, it's very comfortable to Jesse Custer fight in Jodi, I think. Okay.
00:50:08
Speaker
But I don't know if it's quite as raw as like Diamondback drowning Snapdragon or Bruce Wayne beating up Nazis in prison. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely not as good as Gohan going Super Saiyan 2. Okay. It's still pretty good. Okay. I mean, if it makes the list, it's pretty good. It makes the list. It's pretty good. I think it goes between Gessict in Pluto and Bruce Wayne fighting the Nazis.
00:50:38
Speaker
No, I actually think it's better than Bruce Wayne fighting the Nazis. Because again, you expect that. That's true. that is but that's a That's a relatively new metric, but I like it as a metric of like the element of surprise determining rawness to a degree. Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
so scrooge fighting fighting all the animals in the Transvaal and then riding a ah lion back into town ah is at the new number 46. Yeah, dot Don Rosa gets on the list. Finally, finally. Don Rosa, who would be incensed to be on this list. You think so? Oh, I think he would. I think he would hate it.
00:51:35
Speaker
Our next submission is so and someone else has submitted the moment from infinity number four. Involving the builders and Thor. That's got to wait till thing mania. That is from Zachary Jenkins, which I swear is the second time that same moment has been submitted in the last two weeks. Uh, so
00:52:07
Speaker
This is all kinds of reason to stay tuned for hickmania. For sure, for sure, for sure. ah All right, next is a submission from ah Ian Zelstra,
00:52:26
Speaker
which Ian, um I'm telling you straight up, this one is gonna get disqualified for us not having read it. brett Okay. But it is a submission, an excerpt from Kill Six Billion Demons, a long runny fantasy comic. ah It's a webcomic. In the third book, Seeker of Thrones, dimensionally displaced Barista Allison and her devril, Galpal Cho, are on a mission to break Allison's sometimes boyfriend Zaid out of the yalt of Vree, or vault of Yree,
00:53:02
Speaker
a dungeon containing the dragon god Mammon and his vast wealth. They have enlisted the aid of scheming devil Oscar and a crew of thieves, including safecracker Lucky Felicia. It turns out that Felicia was enlisted for a slightly different purpose. And then there's a betrayal ah by Oscar and... Okay, two things here. One, we haven't read this.
00:53:31
Speaker
have Sounds good. Sounds like it might be up my alley. Sounds exciting. But also, it's it's maybe a little too much to be one raw submission. I mean, I guess it's just a few pages, maybe? I will say this.
00:53:56
Speaker
If it takes, I'll give you two, if it takes three sentences to describe the moment, I don't know how raw it's going to be. I mean, I feel like a lot of the moments that we have on the list, if we were describing them to someone who didn't, wasn't familiar with them, it might take that, but like a guy handing another guy a baseball bat doesn't sound all that good.
00:54:27
Speaker
You have to have the context of Gordon handing giving flasks to the baseball bat, right? Yeah, but like, but you can sum it up. Sure. Because Matt, it's been 15 years since he had to take down a green parade. That's true. I am looking at the art of kill 6 billion demons right now, and it does look fucking rad. So I'm not saying that this is isn't raw. We just can't judge it.
00:54:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, like, it definitely sounds like this could be a catch up candidate, because all that stuff sounds like stuff I like it. This is a web comic that has gone on for a very long time. And I think it's probably beyond what we could do for catch up. But well, it's been collected, right? Like, there's there's a paperbacks. There are paperbacks. Yes. So this is in the third book. Maybe, maybe in Get back to us with what, how we might be able to like get in to kill six billion demons. and And we'll see. We'll see. Our next submission is from Kevin McLean, who provides for us House of X number four, in which Nightcrawler and Wolverine teleport into the sun to stop Mothermold. Yeah, that shit owns. That shit's good. I'll tell you what.
00:55:57
Speaker
I'll tell you what is ah hot in House of X, and I talked about this on on the Hard Choices podcast as well. That shit, I think it's in number one, where ah Professor X is talking to Cyclops, and he's like, hey, this is gonna be real ah but real dangerous. you know Look at this mission I gotta send you on, you're probably gonna die. And Cyclops goes, does it need to be done?
00:56:26
Speaker
Professor X goes, yes, and Cyclops goes, then it will be done. That's the hardest shit Cyclops has ever said, including next one breaks her ankle. That is, that is Cyclops being Cyclops and it being so good.
00:56:52
Speaker
that is in no way out of character for Cyclops, right? right But like instead of being the Cyclops people find annoying, it's Cyclops being fully in character and being rad as fuck. Yeah, I feel like the the if you're gonna write Cyclops and have him be good, right, then pretty much all of the X-Men You just need to take his superpower and make it a literal part of his personality, right? Yeah. He holds back, and holds back, and holds back, but then, when he stops holding back, it's unstoppable. It's over, yeah. Yeah. you know he's He's not gonna start the fight, but he'll end it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:43
Speaker
oh the House of X number four kicks ass though. like House of X number four has that gray moment where like they've got all the X-Men trapped, the bad guys have all the X-Men trapped, and- Orcus. Yeah, sorry. Orcus has all the X-Men trapped. Then they hear a noise, and someone goes, what was that? And ah they go, that was the sound of failure. The mutants have disengaged too with the collars.
00:58:11
Speaker
and what, uh, she goes section four and you just see Wolverine walking away from a bunch of dead people. ah ah But this moment, this moment is great because yeah the mother mold is like starting up and they're on this space station right next to the sun. And, um, they're talking, they're, you know, they have this,
00:58:39
Speaker
Wolverine and Nightcrawler have this telepathic link to Cyclops. And they're telling Cyclops like, we can get there and there's no other way to do this. And Cyclops is like, then go. And so Nightcrawler and Wolverine have this little moment where they both think they are definitely going to die. Like they don't know about the five yet.
00:59:06
Speaker
And they don't know that gold balls are going to bring her back to life, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so they have this conversation where it's like, we're night crawlers, like, you worried about your soul? And, and Wolverine's like, I just don't know what's waiting for me. You know, and night crawlers, like, wherever we go, wherever we end up on the other side, find me there and I'll be waiting for you. Yeah. And then they teleport.
00:59:37
Speaker
onto Mothermold and wreck it and get burnt to cenders. By the sun. By the sun. And then Cyclops looks out the way, Cyclops gets so many fucking rad moments in the house. Almost like Jonathan Hickman. Yeah. Almost like Jonathan Hickman can really relate to Cyclops. Cyclops just says to himself, bravest man I know,
01:00:06
Speaker
Kicks ass, dude. It rips. Yeah. They get back on it. You go ahead. Like Wolverine doesn't just like, like he separates ah Mother Molt's head, right? And sends it flying to the sun. But to do that, he has to also launch himself into the sun. So he follows it in, which is great. Yeah. I also feel like we don't, we don't I don't know, maybe this is more of a thing for X-Men fans than I think it is, but I feel like we don't really talk about Nightcrawler and Wolverine's friendship being like really good, but it really is. They're two characters who work really well together. I agree, yeah. Remember that time on the animated series that Wolverine literally ah came to Christ? I do. like two That was kind of weird. That was a little bit weird. but
01:01:05
Speaker
Uh, at the time I was like, yes, this is good. This is, this is what I want from my animated superheroes. That was, if you've never seen the episode of, uh, the X-Men cartoon from the nineties where Wolverine literally ah opens his heart to Jesus Christ. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like 11 years old and I'm like, yes. You're like, man, maybe I should accept Jesus as my personal Lord and savior if it's good enough for Wolverine. Uh, but.
01:01:35
Speaker
Man, in 2019, I remember reading House of X and Powers of X and being like, man, those are pretty good comics. These comics are pretty good. I'm excited about the future of X-Men. We didn't know how fucking good we had it. I mean, I think we did. I don't think I did.
01:01:57
Speaker
I did. And I think you did too, because I remember being like, hey man, these are the best X-Men comics that they've been, these are the best X-Men comics they've done since the year 2003. What I mean is, yes, yes, yes, yes, they're definitely the best X-Men comics since Grant. What I mean is, I had an expectation that X-Men was gonna be that good. Oh, just forever?
01:02:23
Speaker
for a while, right? I mean, it was that good for a while. It was good, but it was never this good again. Even even through the Hickman run, you know, like, i because they because they the whole Moira part of it got dropped. And so it did it like it went off and did something else.
01:02:50
Speaker
which was still good, but it was never this good again. That's, that's how I feel about it. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, but I also like, you could talk me into, you could definitely talk me into agreeing with you that like it never got as good as House of X and Powers of X. Yeah. Just cause they were like that fucking good. There's such statements and there's such like,
01:03:20
Speaker
big stories that are like, hey, we're changing shit. You know? Yeah. But I mean, like, they didn't even have, ah like, Krakowa didn't fuck in these issues. That's true. I mean, Krakowa being able to fuck came later. Yeah. ah But damn, there's just like,
01:03:43
Speaker
I think House of X is better than Powers of X, even though they're both very close to equally good. Yeah, no, House of X is maybe like... House of X might be the best six issues of X-Men comics ever. Fuck, man. i They are... Like, I didn't know at the time. Like, right again, at the time I was like,
01:04:13
Speaker
That was pretty good comics. I did not think as hyperbolically about them as I do now. Like, or, or I do not, I do not give them the status that I do now. Um, because damn,
01:04:32
Speaker
they're just fucking great. I mean, House of X number six, they put saber tooth in a hole. They sure do, man. They sure do. And I was so amped for like,
01:04:44
Speaker
What, what is going to happen with Moira? And like, it's such a bummer that it just totally fizzled out. I, I am looking forward to, cause I guess Hank Mania continues through this, right? Uh, I mean, this is different. Like it's not part of the Avengers story anymore. Uh, but yeah. Okay.
01:05:08
Speaker
We're going to have to really decide what we're doing for Hygmania and if Hygmania ends with Secret Wars 2015. I think it does, but like we're absolutely going to have to like set parameters for Hygmania because does it include his shield series, does it include? I mean, I kind of think it's gotta include the shield series and it's kind of gotta like, we gotta put the Fantastic Four stuff in there. But that's so many comics. That's yeah so many comics. That's why it's Hygmania. That's gonna last for three years. But if we gotta do it, we gotta do it.
01:05:49
Speaker
Matt, do you want what what would you rather do on this show than read good comics for three years? This is a great point. Yeah. Anyway, this ah this shit kicks ass. oh It's really good. It's really, really good. like Honestly, I feel like you could almost choose any single moment from House of X or Powers of X, and it could end up on this list. Yeah, pretty much every issue has at least one full banger. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:24
Speaker
I think you talked me into it just because like, yeah, this is kind of the best X-Men has ever been. The shit where it's revealed that wover it in House of X over six, where it's revealed that Wolverine and Cyclops and Jean Grey are in a polycule.
01:06:37
Speaker
yeah man i don't know That's wrong, but it's great. But it's great. And then when, when Magneto and Professor X are like standing there with the, with the fireworks going off all around them. And they're like, just look what we have made.
01:06:54
Speaker
Is it in these when Apocalypse is like, they're like, hey Apocalypse, are you gonna cause me trouble? Apocalypse is like, nah man, this is what I've been saying we should be doing for years. This is all I've ever wanted, I'm excited. Fuck, yeah, like the stuff where it's like, all the mutants are like, together now. Like, they got their petty disagreements, they gotta put Sabretooth in a hole, but they they're on the page, you know? Like, goddamn.
01:07:23
Speaker
It's good. It's good. Where do you want to put this moment? Uh, it's, it's, it's raw. third Okay. I don't know how much we have discussed the notion of self-sacrifice being raw. Self-sacrifice is raw as hell, man. But like we scourged standing alone at Gallibrew's number two. Yeah. This moment hits so hard because Like if if Wolverine and Nightcrawler teleported into the sun to destroy Mothermold, that would be raw. But because you get the moment before that, where they have their little conversation about like, these these guys think it's the end. And they're they're getting right with it. That makes it so much more powerful.
01:08:26
Speaker
You know? Yeah, man. We really shook the pillars of heaven, didn't we? Yeah. Shit's great. Yeah. So, here's the question. Because, like,
01:08:39
Speaker
the x been the recent X-Men comics that are as good as this are X-Men Red, where Magneto crushed Tarn's head. Uh-huh. Which is number three. I would say, as a raw moment,
01:08:56
Speaker
that's better that's more raw than this yes because that's that's literally for dgs is that entire like that that's i mean i said literally you know what i mean yes but that's it's it's that moment makes me into the guy in the meme in the in the in the gif Not the guy who's standing there all proud, but the guy who enters the frame with his hands on the side of his face. Yeah. That's me. Matt, I can't believe that you you didn't know the proper name of Super Hot Fire. Super Hot Fire, yeah. Yeah. It turns me into that one ache wood panel where Ray is beating on his own chest and saying, this is a homeboy.
01:09:49
Speaker
the The classical version of that guy is um the dude on the cover of Action Comics number one. Dude on the cover of Action Comics number one who's making that same pose. Yes.
01:10:02
Speaker
Yeah, that that shit with... a ah Damn, you're right. I bet she loses. That shit's so good. It's unbelievable. I don't think this moment cracks the top ten.
01:10:17
Speaker
Because number 10 is Batman putting the red, or Magneto putting the red skull in a fucking hole. Which is top, top-notch shit, yeah. Yeah. Like that is literally like top 10. Is it more raw than Trunks whipping Freeze's ass in front of Freeze's own dad? I'm gonna leave that to you.
01:10:41
Speaker
It's in front of his dad, man!
01:10:50
Speaker
So funny. I do think it's more raw than the events of G.I. Joe number 21. Okay. I don't know if it's as raw as God Doom pulling all Thanos' bones out. That shit's pretty good. That shit's pretty fucking raw. It's all his bones, Matt. It's every single one of his bones. All right, it's the new number 17 then. The new number 17 is Nightcrawler and Wolverine teleported into the sun.
01:11:20
Speaker
in House of X number four. House of X, man. House of X about good. What a fucking great comic. It would be nice if like, it would be nice if like all comics had been that good forever. That's all I want. That's all I ask, right? Yeah. Just make comics that good. Why don't they just make comics that are as good as House of X all the time? Yeah. I mean, you know,
01:11:51
Speaker
You got Al Ewing, you got Graham Morrison, you got Jonathan Hickman, you got Teenie Howard, you got all these people that are real good at writing comics. You can just write those comics and just make those comics, they'd be that good. Yeah. It's easy. It's not easy for me, but it seems pretty easy for them. Al Ewing does it like every week. That is true.
01:12:22
Speaker
All right Nick Whelan has one for us It's very recent Okay, and Nick says it might be more of an ice cold moment than a raw moment But it is the last two pages from Amazing Spider-Man number 58 Which I remarked on when we talked about that issue on the show Because it's the part where tombstone tackles spider-man out of a book Skyscraper window. Uh-huh. And then the next issue blurb is the cover of the next issue, which is the next panel. Yes. And Nick said that that sequence made him yell, let's fucking go. I believe it also made you yell that. ah Or something like it, yeah. Yeah.
01:13:16
Speaker
and And it should be noted that what is happening is Tombstone says, you wanna get crazy? Let's get crazy. Great, great. And it's saying, let's get crazy on the cover of 59. Yes. Like the last panel of 58 is Tombstone asking, you wanna get crazy?
01:13:39
Speaker
And then yeah next issue blurb cover, he's saying, let's get crazy. yeah as they crash out of a skyscraper window. See, the comic can be that good. Comics can't be that good, yeah. Comics can just be that good. its It made me to lose my mind that the next issue blurb was the next panel of the story. Here's what's great about it. A, it's a pretty raw moment.
01:14:13
Speaker
for Tombstone to ah fucking hit Spider-Man with a Goldberg spear through a window ah and say, ah you want to get crazy, let's get crazy as they fall out of a building. That's pretty good to begin with. Yeah. But what really puts this over the top is this is like structurally, that's the shit you can only do in comics. That's true. Cause no other like,
01:14:44
Speaker
no other medium like hat like it's not like making the the movie poster for the sequel the first frame of the movie works right right yeah like you could only do this in comics because the cover is functionally a panel just nobody ever uses it as one not all except for except for like watchmen except for watchmen yeah yeah But like even that was just like, it's the first panel of this issue. It's not the next panel in a multi-part story. Right. And let me also say this. We've been trained, not just by comics, but by TV and everything else, for to to expect that cliffhangers like this,
01:15:33
Speaker
whatever happens in the next story, the cliffhanger will get explained away somehow, or there'll be a fake out, or it won't actually end up being as dangerous as it appeared in the previous installment, right? This time, they go out of a fucking window, they fall and land on a car and destroy that car, and then Tombstone says, are you ready to die for this?
01:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, man. I don't think we talked about how fucking good it is when they're fighting and this happens in 59, where they're fighting and Tombstone says like, hey, you should have stayed away. You already saved Janice. And Spider-Man's like, no, Lonnie, I'm trying to save you from killing your own fucking daughter.
01:16:32
Speaker
Yeah. And like you realize that's why he's fighting so hard. Yeah. To stop tombstone from doing something he'll regret. Something he can never come back from. Yeah. Which is a very Peter Parker. I can't, I could not believe it when I found out that there were people who did not like this run. It's so good. There are parts of it that are better than others. I'll cop to that.
01:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, sure. But the shit with Tombstone, which is the throughline of the whole run? Yeah, everything involving Tombstone's pretty fucking great. It's rad. And, like, I love that Zeb Wells, who, by the way, I forgot to mention this in my rec, accredited writer on Deadpool and Wolverine. Oh, good for him. Good for him. Zeb Wells came into this book, like,
01:17:29
Speaker
I'm gonna put over Tombstone. Yeah, man. And he did. Yeah, man. Because like, Tombstone wins that fight. Yeah. Like, Tombstone has always been like, around, you know, ever since he debuted.
01:17:51
Speaker
he's He's always kind of been around as a Spider-Man villain, but I don't think anybody would say he was a an A-list villain. No, certainly not. But this kind of gets him there. It puts him over. So here's my question. This whole run has actually a lot of pretty fucking raw moments involving tombstone, uh, tombstone taking a set of pliers and taking the caps off his teeth. That's pretty raw. That's raw. I wish somebody would have submitted that. I would say like the, the rawest shit that happens in this entire run is tombstone
01:18:40
Speaker
tricking Spider-Man into taking out the rose. That was great. Yeah. That's one of like the best, that's like legitimately one of the best sequences I've ever seen in a Spider-Man comic. It's great, yeah. Is this the rawest thing that happens with Tombstone? Or is this a raw thing that also has like a very clever structural thing? Or is it maybe a little bit of both?
01:19:09
Speaker
I think it is a thing, okay, for pure rawness, I think it is either near the bottom of the list or not on the list. Okay. But the clever structural thing makes me love it so, so much. I mean, I think there's something to be said for Structure can help, like like structure can enhance the rawness. The shit in Chainsaw Man, where the dudes are like summoning the devils and they reach in from outside the panel, that's fucking great. And that shit would does not work as well in the anime. Yeah, okay. All right, I think this can go on the list, but
01:20:04
Speaker
It's probably like number 85.
01:20:10
Speaker
All right. Uh, cause, cause they, like you said, there are more raw things. There are raw things in this run of Spider-Man involving Tombstone. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's as purely raw as the punisher shooting a hundred year old man on the face of his own birthday party. Yeah.
01:20:34
Speaker
I would agree. and do me And Hulk throwing Blade who cannot fly ah turn into a bat up in the air is is is funny. Funnier. All right, then then this is going to enter the list as our new number 85. I think it is similar to what we have at the bottom of the list, which is Batman and the p suit of sorrows. It reminds me of that 2000 AD crossover where they didn't tell you it was a crossover.
01:21:05
Speaker
I think it was called Trifecta. Like they didn't tell you it was a crossover until the last panel of the Judge Dred strip is Judge Dred kicking down the door. And then the next strip starts and it's Judge Dred kicking the door into the next strip. Yeah, yeah. pretty good I mean, certain things in comics like Magneto putting red skull in a hole wouldn't be as raw as it is without some of the kind of formal stuff about it.
01:21:34
Speaker
Like the fact that Magneto just like flies up out of that hole and then Red Skull's just left in the dark with his mouth open. e Like you couldn't do that sequence of stuff in anything but comics. but That's the sequence of images, you know? yeah That's a big part of what makes it raw. I i see what you're saying for sure. Full agree, yeah.
01:22:03
Speaker
Here's our next submission. It's gonna have to be the last submission of this episode. It is from Patrick O'Duffy. And i feel like I feel like this submission is going to inspire some interesting discussion. Okay. Because Patrick realized that no one has submitted Marvel 2 in 1 Annual Number 7 yet. And which Ben Grimm says, I'm just too stupid and ugly to know when to quit.
01:22:34
Speaker
We love that moment. Undoubtedly we love that moment. Is it raw though? That's a good question.
01:22:45
Speaker
I, okay. I don't think this is going to be, it it might seem like a distinction without difference. All right. Okay. I need you to bear with me, Matt. All right.
01:23:03
Speaker
That panel isn't raw. The panel of Ben Grimm saying, you didn't beat me is raw as fuck. That is a very fine distinction. It's a very fine distinction, but I think it's I think it's I you see what I'm saying, though. I i absolutely do. Yes. You didn't beat me. You'll never beat me.
01:23:36
Speaker
And that actually happens in the same panel. He says, I'm just too stupid and ugly to know when to quit. But, but like you didn't beat me is a, that bat's shit's pretty good. That's the part that's raw. Yeah. Whereas I'm too ugly and stupid to give up. What would be the term for that? I mean, that's just, that's just, it's great. Yeah.
01:24:04
Speaker
Like it's everything that Ben Grimm is. Yeah. Right. Like it's so because it's also not true. Like that's, that's not why. Like that's not why he's not giving up. If Ben Grimm was just, if Ben Grimm was in his human form, he'd do the same thing. He also wouldn't give up. Yeah. Yeah. But when they declare the champion, the champion,
01:24:30
Speaker
And Ben Grimm crawls out of the corner and says, you didn't fucking beat me. You'll never beat me. Yeah. That's good. That's, that's, that's tight. Yeah. And like it wins over the champion. Like one thing that the part of that we, I don't think we ever actually talk about is that it absolutely wins over the champion.
01:24:58
Speaker
He was like, wow, I'll never break your spirit. Like I could absolutely atomize your body, but I will never break your spirit. Yeah, man. Yeah. I don't, again, I also understand how people don't like this comic. People were so shocked that we like flipped out about this issue when we got it on every story ever, however long ago. And like,
01:25:27
Speaker
I feel like it is the most self-evident thing. Yeah! like
01:25:36
Speaker
Yeah! Yeah, man! And, like, it's that panel of of Ben, like, in his robe with his fist taped, getting ready. but the When he what he says, uh, I ain't the strongest or the toughest Joe the champions ever fought, but I ain't gonna go down easy. He's gonna know he's been in a fight.
01:25:56
Speaker
yeah That shit's good. I mean, yeah it's rock it's the first Rocky. Yeah, man. It's it's the first Rocky, but like that's a great story. Yeah. like That's a story that sticks with you. Maybe people were surprised because it's not very well drawn.
01:26:21
Speaker
It could be better, for sure. like Look, I think Ron Wilson does a fine job. I do not think Ron Wilson is the best artist in comics history. He does a fine job. Tom DeFalco does a fine job. Tom DeFalco is not the best writer in comics history. I mean, look, ah maybe that's why people are so surprised because the creative team on this comic, and I mean this with all due respect, is two good hands. It is. It's exactly two good hands.
01:26:56
Speaker
But sometimes a good hand gets gets a win. I will say this, Ron Friends could have drawn the shit out of this book. Oh, Ron Friends would have gone to town on this story, no doubt. But like I think Ron Wilson does a fine job. Yeah, he's all right. the The shot of Ben Grimm doing his entrance And it's like him from behind with the the robe over his, like the hood over his head. And it says the thing on his back. Like, that's good. That's a good visual. There are some really good visuals in the, in the issue. Do you remember the part of this comic where, um, where J. Jordan Jameson writes an editorial about how it's all a work?
01:27:52
Speaker
He's just like us Pretty good Pretty good. He's not like a like us You'll never beat me. Yeah, like You the because the champion at that point has won. Oh, yeah let he wins on a He wins on a on a TKO. It's basically a TKO. Yeah Yeah, it's good as hell
01:28:24
Speaker
It was a ref stoppage thing didn't quit. Yeah, who okay, but Who where did how raw is it and where does it enter the list? I don't think I Don't think it's it's not pure raw cuz like moments are made up of of, of several things, right? Like it's not just that they affect one quadrant of your emotions, right? The stuff at the top of the list, that's kind of pure raw. Yes. Jim Gordon getting ready to whoop that man's ass with a baseball bat is pure raw. It is absolutely that's a word raw.
01:29:11
Speaker
That's what ah Frank Miller who's been missing for Uh, nigh on, nigh on 30 years now after disappearing in the Bermuda Triangle. Uh, he was really good at that. Garth Ennis is really good at that. Simonson's really good at that. Like kind of getting that pure raw shit, right? Most other things that are raw are going to be raw and, and this is like raw and great. Yeah, yeah. but Yes, this, this,
01:29:46
Speaker
If we could do percentages, I think from top to bottom, the percentage of rawness would decrease because it's some percentage something else. Yeah. Yeah. And this is just like inspirational, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's it's however many percent raw and probably a greater percentage inspirational.
01:30:20
Speaker
I like i don't think this is a better moment and one that sticks with me more than rock Lockheed ripping out Sebastian Shaw's fucking eye. But I don't think it's as raw as that. It's not more raw than that, yeah. Yeah. On the rawness scale, this is maybe pretty low.
01:30:42
Speaker
on the great comics moments scale, it's way up there. Yeah. I do think it is more raw than Catwoman whipping Prometheus right in the beanbag. Okay. I can, I'm good with that. So that would make it number, number nice. Number nice. I mean, no, make it number 70. Oh, okay. Number 70. Yeah. All right.
Future of Thursday Night Raw Submissions
01:31:10
Speaker
Now that we have done all of that,
01:31:13
Speaker
ah We've ranked all the lists or submissions we're going to rank this episode. It is time for us now to decide, is this the end of Thursday Night Raw or are we going to continue it into 2025?
01:31:33
Speaker
ah here's Here's the thing, Matt. The reason we continued it into this year is because there were moments that were not on the list that I knew had to be on here. Including what's at number one now including the number one? Rawest moment of all time. Yeah, which I don't think anyone can top I Don't either I think that is the rawest comics will ever be yeah that said I don't have I Don't have any plans for what we could follow it up with next year Nor do I so and we have some time before 2025 also
01:32:14
Speaker
We do have seven remaining line stepper submissions that I think it is incumbent on us to cover in a special in early 2025. So so we'll I think we will have to do at least one more Thursday Night Raw special, but That might be the end of it. And as such, for now, I'm going to close submissions to Thursday Night Raw. All right. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing, Matt. I think that's a good call. Seven more submissions. Yeah. If we, if if they all make the list, that takes us up to 94 entries.
01:33:06
Speaker
And I think it's silly if we don't go 100. That's fair. So I think what we need to do is you and me come up with three each. Well, but there's also, we also have non-line stepper submissions that we could dig into. I mean, that's true. So. Maybe there's, some maybe there's some gold in them there. They're hills. So how about this? We close submissions.
01:33:38
Speaker
And we will end Thursday night raw when the list has a hundred entries. All right. And in the meantime, so, so whatever the 2025 thing is, it won't go through the whole year because raw might go into January, February. Then we'll need to figure out whatever the next thing we're going to do is.
01:34:05
Speaker
Because part of the idea of Thursday Night Raw is that it was always going to be a limited list. And I think a hundred is good.
01:34:15
Speaker
Like a good round number. Okay. That settles it then. That's it. It settled. Thursday Night Raw is not over yet.
01:34:30
Speaker
but we have an end date insight whenever we reach 100 total entries on the list. so we'll So we'll keep at it for a little while and then figure out something else out to do after that. Thursday night raw submissions are closed. I am officially closing those, but if you want to email us at every story of our list or get in touch with us for some other reason,
01:34:59
Speaker
For instance, maybe you want to sponsor the show. You can email us at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail dot.com.
01:35:08
Speaker
Our website is warrocketajax.com. It has every episode of the show we've ever done. So go check that out. We're on Tumblr at warrocketpodcast.tumblr dot.com. We're on blue sky at warrocketajax.com. On blue sky.
Community and Contact Information
01:35:24
Speaker
We have our Discord, which you can ask us on any of the places I just mentioned.
01:35:30
Speaker
and on our Patreon ah for an invitation to our Discord, and we will provide you with that invitation if you're nice to us in the way you ask for that invitation. And you can join the Discord and be part of that community of War Rocket Ajax fans, which is a really great community of folks.
01:35:50
Speaker
WarRocketWiki.com is the fan-run repository of all the information you could ever want or need about this show, War Rocket Ajax, so go there and check that out. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias, which my blue sky handle is now just MattDWilson.net. So that's all you have to remember. Easy. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. It has links to the stuff that I do.
01:36:26
Speaker
and ah you can read a thing there or or just find me on other places.
01:36:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening,
Thanksgiving Break Plans and Social Affirmations
01:36:38
Speaker
everybody. ah We're going to take next week off for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back in full force in December with some guests and the Christmas special and some comforts of joys, and you'll want to be back for it all.
01:36:55
Speaker
That's right. Just like Jumpin' Jeff Farmer, we're goin' full force.
01:37:03
Speaker
Another one, i I make these just for Matt. oh these Yes, these are things Chris knows that I know. Yes, enjoy. If you if you're in ah the United States of America and you do celebrate, have a happy Thanksgiving, we're thankful for you. um if If you don't celebrate, then just have a good week. Yeah. We'll be back with you soon.
01:37:26
Speaker
And until then, do not forget Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. And cops are not your friends. But we love you. We love you.