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Comics Catch-Up 070: Robin (1991)
911 Plays1 day ago
Robin's first five-issue mini-series from 1991: Good, average, or secretly bad? We dig into this Chuck Dixon/Tom Lyle trip to France (and Spain and Hong Kong) to find out.
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Show Introduction & Zencastr Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
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Comics Catch-Up Overview
00:00:28
Speaker
This is Comics Catch-Up. Hey, twerp, you better not be mine. Come on, look at my
00:00:52
Speaker
Where we read comics suggested by you, the listeners of War Rocket Ajax, that we have missed. Oh, hey! It's been a while.
00:01:03
Speaker
We should catch up. That's right, everybody, it's Comics Catch Up. This is the spinoff of the War Rocket Ajax podcast, where we read the comics that we might have missed, or fell off of, or for some reason didn't manage to read all the way through.
Host Introductions & Forgotten Comic
00:01:21
Speaker
And who are we, you ask? Well, I'm Chris Sims, and with me as always is Matt Wilson. Hi, Matt. Hey. Good to catch up, isn't it?
00:01:33
Speaker
ah Matt, I can honestly say, catching up with you is among my favorite things to do in the world.
00:01:43
Speaker
And this time, we're catching up on a comic that I think probably a lot of people were surprised about. That we... If we had read it before, we forgot that we read it.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, having read this again, I've definitely read this.
00:02:04
Speaker
Which, you know, that happens sometimes. But I didn't remember anything about it.
Robin Miniseries Discussion
00:02:09
Speaker
That happens sometimes. This is Robin brackets one.
00:02:15
Speaker
Which does not actually say Robin one on the covers. It just says Robin. But... For whatever reason, unlike other comics miniseries, there was Robin 1, Robin 2, and Robin 3.
00:02:31
Speaker
And everybody referred to them as such. Yeah. and And there was also Robin 3000. Mm-hmm. which is a real Which is a real, well, hang on.
00:02:43
Speaker
Am I missing 4 through 2999? Robin 1 1991.
00:02:48
Speaker
this is robin one from ninety ninety one written by Chuck Dixon with art by Tom Lyle, with ah Brian Boland covers. And I'm just going to say this straight out of the gate, Chris.
00:03:03
Speaker
This is comic. Yeah, I was going to say, Matt, it's great that we don't actually have to review this. Have you read a comic?
00:03:15
Speaker
Then you've basically read Robin 1. Comic. It sure is. Yeah.
00:03:23
Speaker
like i had to If I had to numerically and mathematically say, what is an average comic book? This is it.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, Bolin's bringing up the average on that. Very slightly. But, man, it is ah it is a B- minus all the way through.
00:03:47
Speaker
It is absolutely dead middle average comic book. ah Events happen. and like there's maybe
00:04:02
Speaker
there's maybe one notable thing per issue that happens.
Tim Drake's Training Decision
00:04:10
Speaker
it's here from Jump Street.
00:04:13
Speaker
it At the very beginning of this book, it's just Bruce and Tim, Batman and Robin, Tim has only recently become Robin.
00:04:26
Speaker
ah but it And has the costume and everything, but there's a lot of like, well, Tim, are you really going to be my new partner? are you Are you ready?
00:04:38
Speaker
ah Because you're going to have to go and do an adventure all on your own. book entitled Robin. Yeah. and like so So what adventure are you going to go do?
00:04:49
Speaker
and Tim decides on his own that he's going to go to Paris and study with a sensei who has mastered all these like different fighting and defensive techniques.
00:05:07
Speaker
And that is out the window by the end of the first issue. Yeah, man. Bruce is out here like, hey... you should You should go do what I did, travel the world and learn how to do some stuff.
00:05:24
Speaker
And I feel like Tim could be like, yeah, I mean, I could, but like you know that stuff, right? so yeah you You could just teach that to me. Can I just hang? Can I just chill out?
00:05:35
Speaker
like And Batman goes, no, no, no. go talk to some guys I already know. Yeah, go go learn your stuff somewhere else in the world.
00:05:47
Speaker
so despite this being like a Tibetan master, his school is in Paris. So Tim goes to Paris.
00:05:59
Speaker
And the dude is like, I'm too old to actually do stuff. So my student is going to teach you everything. Yeah, and this this student is, he's a real motor mouth kind of guy.
00:06:13
Speaker
Talking a lot of Talking a lot of trash talking a lot of lot of wild and wacky stuff about how he's going to make a lot of money. He's not in the rest of the series.
00:06:25
Speaker
Absolutely not. And he is one of those characters who has and extremely complicated mullet. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. it's It's shaved on the sides, kind of poofy on top, and very long in the back.
Art Style & Character Dynamics
00:06:45
Speaker
yeah that's That's what you get from Tom Lyle. That's the Tom Lyle promise. what Matt, you despise Tom Lyle. I don't. I think Tom Lyle does a perfectly B- job on this comic. I know you hate him, but I am not in a position to defend Tom Lyle here. ah because It's fine.
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's b minus It's fine. He does fine. There's a character a little bit than average. Yeah. There's a character named Ling in this who like starts out as kind of like a damsel in distress and then becomes... Well, first she hits on Tim.
00:07:36
Speaker
Like, Tim, after a night of learning with the sensei, decides to go out on the town. Or his, like... teacher, his real teacher, the other student, takes him out on the town.
00:07:50
Speaker
And this young girl, Ling, hits on him. And this sets up like a weird situation where like a gang comes back to claim her, and then they're beating up Tim. Yeah, they... Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
But then she's been a member of that gang the whole time, and then she becomes their leader? Yeah, because the because the one guy gets gets killed. yeah And then she's like, sure, I'll i'll take his job.
00:08:22
Speaker
And then she seems very surprised when that doesn't work out. like That's what I don't get about um minions, Matt, is that if the guy before you got killed for failing at his job by your new boss... Then you're like, okay, I'm next. Yeah, you're like, okay.
00:08:45
Speaker
I can probably do it, though. My turn. You've got to have absolute confidence. Yeah. Really a total lack of awareness. Yeah. But my point about Ling is she has an entirely different face from panel to panel.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah. There's a lot in this that would make a lot of sense if it was live action. Uh-huh. Because you've got that one kid in that first issue...
00:09:15
Speaker
Who's like a character actor really maximizing his minutes. Very much so. Maximizing minimal screen time, yeah. And you've got Ling, who seems like maybe she was replaced.
00:09:27
Speaker
Like, maybe they got a actress in the second issue. Well, it's like, but also it's like, she had a much deeper subplot that got cut. So her arc kind of makes no sense.
00:09:41
Speaker
Uh-huh. And yeah, like, maybe she's played by two different actresses. ah Like, yeah it's, i don't know. But anyway, he immediately leaves, Tim immediately leaves the sensei after this whole thing, this run-in with this gang.
00:10:00
Speaker
And so he he finds the gang's hideout, and he finds this obviously American guy, who's black, being...
Kingsnake & Villainous Plot
00:10:12
Speaker
tortured, being beaten by these gang members. And he learns that his name is Clyde Rollins.
00:10:23
Speaker
And um that he's been investigating this gang. We'll later find out that he's like a former DEA agent. Which is weird because he does seem like in that first issue, i feel like Chuck maybe didn't tell Tom Lyle that this guy wasn't a teenager.
00:10:41
Speaker
I mean, he looks like he's 35, but he's wearing teenager clothes. yeah i mean Yeah, but in a lot of panels, so does Tim.
00:10:51
Speaker
like I thought he was around Tim's age until like we get into his what his whole deal is. He is a former DEA agent who's got like who's out for revenge against the guy who heads up this gang who we'll become aware of a little bit later.
00:11:07
Speaker
Hmm. um But here's some interesting dialogue. ah Robin joins Clyde in fighting off these gang members. And Robin says, call me Robin.
00:11:20
Speaker
And Clyde goes, rockin' Robin, huh? And Tim says, no, just Robin. And then Clyde says, we'll get rockin', Robin. it's Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
That's about where we're at. That's about where we're at. Hey, man here's here's the thing about this series. Tim's real cavalier with his secret identity.
00:11:46
Speaker
Absolutely, yes. Tim's real chill with just having his mask off and being like, I'm Robin, as in, and here's my Robin costume. Which looks a little different from the previous Robin costume, but ain't that different.
00:12:01
Speaker
And, like, I guess I'm in another country, so I can just take my mask off and be around people. That should be fine, right? Yeah, man, I guess people from ah France just straight do not give a fuck about Batman.
00:12:16
Speaker
And then eventually Hong Kong. Only Nightrunner. Only Nightrunner cares about Batman. And then the the final panel of the first issue is Shiva watching this all happen.
00:12:30
Speaker
Issue two. great How did we talk about this that much?
00:12:36
Speaker
I mean, you could talk about you could stretch anything out if you want to. i guess. ah Issue two, Robin, and did you also keep referring to this dude mentally as Clyde Drexler?
00:12:49
Speaker
i don't know. I thought i thought his his real name, Clyde Rollins, was pretty good. okay But Clyde Drexler is perhaps who he's designed after. I don't know. That's Clyde the Glide, right?
00:13:02
Speaker
Clyde the Glide, yeah. Houston Rockets. Yeah, that's him. yeah The second issue introduces Sir Edmund, who is the villain of the piece.
00:13:15
Speaker
who ah Edmund Dorrance. Edmund Dorrance, who is indeed Kingsnake. The greatest villain.
00:13:26
Speaker
it's That's such a lazy villain name. Kingsnake.
00:13:32
Speaker
i I mean, it's fine. it's It's interesting to me... not, but okay. It's interesting to me how he's presented in this comic. Because, like, we've talked in the past about how, like, even back at this point, Chuck Dixon's politics got into the comics sometimes, you know?
00:13:56
Speaker
isn Like, he's always been a conservative guy. and His politics got into the comics sometimes. But this villain... i actually mentioned this on Blue Sky.
00:14:12
Speaker
And David Wynn made an interesting point. David Wynn, an English artist who designed our 2025 wore Rocket Ajax t-shirt.
00:14:24
Speaker
Among other things, a really great artist. You should check out his work. But I said, like... Chuck Dixon in 1991 made a rich colonizer the villain of his comic, right?
00:14:42
Speaker
And like he's got all those tropes. He's wearing a double-breasted jacket, navy jacket with khakis, and has slicked-back hair and big sunglasses, and he orders people around and and treats them like they're disposable, like...
00:14:59
Speaker
he he's He's got all those like rich colonizer bad guy elements, right? And you wouldn't necessarily think a conservative writer in 2025 would make that their bad guy.
00:15:16
Speaker
A conservative writer in 2025 would make their bad guy an immigrant who's taking all our resources and jobs. and Who's a criminal, right? I mean, chuck Chuck's done a couple of those.
00:15:28
Speaker
so he Yeah. But this is like not typically what you think of as a conservative villain. And I made that point. And David Wynn, I think, correctly pointed out that when it's when they're English, it's different.
00:15:45
Speaker
but Because American conservatives hate the the Brits. ah Especially hate like British aristocracy. Yeah. Because they don't think that their wealth is earned or whatever.
00:16:01
Speaker
Which I think is probably true. Nonetheless, I still don't think this would be a conservative writer's villain today.
00:16:10
Speaker
Does that make sense? Probably not. But I mean, like that's you know that's the weird thing about Chuck Dixon. The
00:16:20
Speaker
like the the politics are there, but they're not... overwhelming in the way that they would become for a lot of people. I would say Chuck included. Yeah.
00:16:34
Speaker
Uh, Dixon included. I think it's possible to go back and enjoy a lot of Bill Willingham's work. Sure. Unless you know. Well, I, I, I,
00:16:46
Speaker
I'll be honest, I read a bunch of fables and never got the Israel allegory until it was pointed out to me. and Until like Bigby Wolf started talking about Israel in the comic?
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that was a wild one. Yeah, man. it i I think you are giving Chuck Dixon too much credit.
00:17:13
Speaker
For even thinking about it. yeah Yeah, exactly. Because I think what's actually happening here is he's written a Bond villain.
00:17:26
Speaker
That is exactly correct, yes. like Like, he's, you know, he's a martial arts master so that Shiva can be involved.
00:17:36
Speaker
Everything about him is determined by something else in the story. He's a martial arts master so that Shiva can be involved. He's an aristocrat because he needs to be rich because Chuck Dixon found out about this water clock and wanted to use it in the story for a cool set piece.
00:17:53
Speaker
Well, and then there's also the element of he wants to destroy Hong Kong yeah because it's going to go back under the rule of
80s Action Influence & Humor
00:18:04
Speaker
China.
00:18:04
Speaker
And he doesn't think China deserves it. In like six years. Well, this was 1991, would have been... Yeah, it's 1997. I thought it was 99. yeah, a while. Yeah. i thought it was ninety nine but yeah in a while Yeah, he's got time, but I guess, you know, that if you're going to destroy a city, ah you might as well do it.
00:18:26
Speaker
ah It's like everything of like, yeah. Oh, you're right. It was 1997. I don't know why I had 99 in my head. Yeah, 97. It feels like something that would have happened in 99.
00:18:38
Speaker
But it was 97. But yeah, like he has to be rich so that he can do this thing, and he has to be British because of the Hong Kong thing. So none of that like none of that starts with Sir Edmund Doran's Kingsnake and goes out. it's all like Everything about him is just determined by the rest of the story.
00:19:00
Speaker
And and he was created i have he was created for this. Yeah. And clearly we want to have like set pieces and such. Yeah, he was ah first appearance was Robin number two.
00:19:11
Speaker
That dude has a snake tattoo because his name is King Snake, and there's no reason for his name to be King Snake. His name is King Snake because he has a snake tattoo, and he has the snake tattoo because he's King Snake.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah, like I half expected him at some point in this to be like, yeah, I can't see... But I can taste the air like a king snake. There's none of that.
00:19:39
Speaker
No. like that's what on That's what a Bond villain would be, right? yeah it would It would have something to do with some ability that they have. ah But no.
00:19:51
Speaker
yeah Kingsnake's the most generic dude it is possible to have in a comic. like I think he's not even a B-minus. He's like a D+. plus Yeah. he's like he is He is like a rubber stamp of a villain.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, he is. He's not even the Corolla. He's the... ah What's that car my mom bought? The Nissan that's like the cheapest car you can buy.
00:20:20
Speaker
Sentra?
00:20:23
Speaker
it's Even cheaper. Even cheaper than a Sentra? Yeah. He's the he is the great value villain. Yeah. Absolutely. Versa. The Nissan Versa. He's a Nissan Versa.
00:20:38
Speaker
Okay. Here's the thing about, like... He's got crank windows, man. Yeah. Like, some of this is, like, Dixon having it both ways, I feel like.
00:20:51
Speaker
Because, like...
00:20:54
Speaker
the The gang members, who are like who who we later discover are like teens from Hong Kong who Kingsnake took in off the street and made them into his gang, they are presented as both absolutely disposable
00:21:18
Speaker
criminal bad guys who can like be beaten up with impunity And victims. You know, like like, Ling, for example, is presented as this kind of like two-faced opportunist who will turn on who her friends in an instant for like the tiniest amount of power.
00:21:44
Speaker
But then she messes up and instead of being killed, like they they disfigure her face. And so there's a bit later in the story where like she shows Robin her disfigured face and says, you did this to me, and I think we're supposed to feel bad for her.
00:22:02
Speaker
I mean, you say disfigure her face, and they don't even really do that. Yeah. it's they just like you know i mean I mean, look, it's not pleasant, but they just they gouge your eye out.
00:22:14
Speaker
which it's just you know it's a Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll agree, that's bad. It's bad. I do feel for her on that one. but it But it is a weird, like, how am I supposed to feel about this?
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, oh, Robin's made an enemy today. Yeah, is it like supposed to be like, she's going to be a future enemy of Robin? am I supposed to feel sorry for her? her am I supposed to feel like Tim made a mistake? like Is it just to make Kingsnake seem that much worse?
00:22:46
Speaker
like What do I do with that? I really don't know. it It just feels like a like a trope. You know? Yeah. yeah ah Ling is also a character who is just straight out of central casting.
00:23:05
Speaker
ah But you talked about Dorrance building his gang. there's There's one line in this that is like straight from that guy who shows up at the beginning of Gymkata.
00:23:17
Speaker
sir and is like, we need you to go do Gymkata in this, because direct action's out of style. That kind of, like, wry commentary on the state of politics right now.
00:23:32
Speaker
right And in this, it's like, it's a guy saying, yeah, this guy Edmund Dorrance, he recruits from all the Chinese youth gangs.
00:23:43
Speaker
So we know that that's why he has... Chinese youth gangs? Yeah, that work for him. And that he can treat as fodder for his his plans.
00:23:57
Speaker
But, like, you bring up Jim
00:24:02
Speaker
This really does feel like a comic that is informed by... Jim Cotta, specifically? 80s B action movies. Oh, you mean it's a Chuck Dixon comic.
00:24:16
Speaker
Like, not the good ones, but the ones who were that were kind of like cheaply ripping off the good ones. um Yeah, man, I think me and Chuck Dixon might have been watching a lot of the Watch Fox 57 movie machine.
00:24:28
Speaker
I think so. On Saturday afternoons? I think so. Also, it is worth mentioning here that there's a lot of hay made about Robin bringing his computer everywhere with him.
00:24:46
Speaker
And it is a full-ass CRT monitor.
00:24:53
Speaker
It's not a tower, but it's you know one of those CPUs that lays on the desktop. He has that MF on a plane, Matt. He has it you brought it with him on a plane.
00:25:04
Speaker
ah The other thing that happens is that we get multiple scenes. I feel like there's a scene in... feel like in a better comic there would be a scene in every issue, but there's a scene in 1, 2, and 4 where different people are teaching Robin how to fight.
00:25:28
Speaker
Because I guess Batman couldn't do that. Yeah, yeah. so there's the there's the sensei. he learns He learns some moves from Clyde.
00:25:42
Speaker
he he Okay, he gets trained by the the old sensei. Well, he he gets trained by the student at the sensei's instruction. The student doesn't teach him how to fight.
00:25:53
Speaker
Or the student teaches him how to fight, but the old sensei teaches him how to do like healing pressure point stuff. yeah Which I don't remember that ever coming up again. No. But then the the the student, like the younger guy who's like, yeah, once the old man kicks, I'm going to open up a bunch of dojos and teach our secret arts.
00:26:14
Speaker
ah He teaches him how to fight a little bit and keeps kicking his ass. Then Clyde... teaches him how to fight. And he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, you know, martial arts. Why don't you teach me something?
00:26:26
Speaker
And Clyde's like, it's martial, but there ain't no art to it, which, which to be fair, that's, that's a, that's a solid B plus a minus line. Yeah. yeah Uh, but he's like his hairline changes issue to issue.
00:26:43
Speaker
Tom Lyle gives him some Tom Lyle goes wild on this dude. Uh, He teaches him a little bit and tells Robin that he needs to use his anger.
00:26:55
Speaker
and then Shiva teaches him. Shiva's like, don't use your anger. That's dumb. What?
00:27:02
Speaker
And it's like, how does Robin learn how to fight? Yeah, Robin, she she does tell him the exact opposite of what Clyde tells him. Yeah, Robin should go back to Gotham City ah worse at fighting than when he left.
00:27:16
Speaker
Clyde, I think it's worth mentioning, has the Punisher's origin story. Yes. Exactly. Oh you tell me told me Chuck Dixon kind of only writes three guys?
00:27:34
Speaker
ah There's a part where Robin used his computer to look up Clyde's history as a DEA agent. Computer, that didn't come with the house.
00:27:48
Speaker
And he says, you were you were after the Ghost Dragons for two years. You followed a trail of heroin and murder from Montreal to Marseille to Bangkok. You were hurting them.
00:27:58
Speaker
Your seizures were record breakers. Your team's conviction rate, 99%, near 90%. Then you just quit. You gave up the good fight, Clyde. Why? And then Clyde goes, the good fight.
00:28:09
Speaker
The good fight got my wife and two baby girls killed. So what's scarred but good about that? And when I wanted to bring down the scum who did it, all I got was a load of bull about immunity. The kingpin was some English high roller with heavy connections.
00:28:24
Speaker
So there you go. I like the idea of Robin going, why'd you give up the good fight? And become some kind of vigilante. Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
Robin? You gotta work within the system. Robin, buddy.
00:28:47
Speaker
I got some real bad news for you, friend. Did you forget, bud? Did you forget? Tim, you're a genius. Did you forget? Yeah.
00:29:00
Speaker
Clyde teaches Robin some moves, and then Shiva shows up, and she's like, this is dog shit. I'm going to teach you how to really fight. yeah This is a five-issue miniseries for people who are like, okay, but how did Robin get a stick?
Robin's Weapon Choice & Training
00:29:19
Speaker
And a sling. the The one thing he got from the sensei early in issue one was the sensei showed him a bunch of weapons and told him to pick one. And he picked a sling, and he keeps using the sling throughout the throughout the series.
00:29:35
Speaker
He says that it throws a glass marble 90 miles an hour at somebody's head. And he's like, hurts, but it's not fatal. And I'm like, Robin.
00:29:46
Speaker
90 miles an hour. If you hit somebody in the head with a 90 mile an hour marble, there's ah there's a, I would say, at least an even chance.
00:29:58
Speaker
That's going to be rough, dude. That's going to be a rough one. Did you forget? ah i will say the cover to three. We talked about Brian Boland's covers being good. The cover to three is not very good.
00:30:09
Speaker
It does. I was just on a ah podcast talking about how much I like Brian Boland. Yeah, he's great. It does seem like he might have phoned some of these in. Just this one, I think.
00:30:23
Speaker
Robin's face looks weird. he in He's going, I'm going to throw a marble at you at 90 miles an hour. Yeah, I don't think we needed... don't think we needed Robin... Like, a multiple-page sequence of Robin picking out his staff.
00:30:45
Speaker
Right? And yet. And yet. But hey, if you've ever wondered what it would be like if ah Tim Drake... woke up and thought he was about to lose his virginity, i have wonderful news for you about the events. so that's That's in the next issue, I think. That's in Robin 1-4.
00:31:07
Speaker
yeah ah This is the issue where um they go on their big reconnaissance mission in the French countryside.
00:31:21
Speaker
At the Maginot Line. At the Maginot Line, yeah. They go down into like ah ah the tunnels under the Maginot line and get into a big fight with Ling, whose codename is Lynx.
00:31:36
Speaker
and Because it sounds like Ling. Yeah. and um And ah Robin sicks a bunch of bats on them. And he's like, oh, now I know why Bruce does this.
00:31:50
Speaker
He doesn't even sick a bunch of bats on them. The bats show up incidentally. Yeah. Like, Robin's about to get fucking got. And then it turns out that when they were shooting and blowing stuff up, they woke up a bunch of bats.
00:32:06
Speaker
And Robin's like, oh man, these things are scary to them, but I'm used to them. sir The mention of James Bond, like, this really is
00:32:21
Speaker
Chuck Dixon trying to do a James Bond story, I feel like. it's Because there's there's like a big motorcycle chase where Robin's in a sidecar while Clyde drives it.
00:32:34
Speaker
they yeah the The motorcycle gets destroyed and they get picked up by Shiva, who's in a tiny little car. That panel of her and her little car is so funny. It's pretty good.
00:32:46
Speaker
I like how there's this whole big thing where Robin like gets his sling out. And Clyde's like, tell me you're kidding. And Robin's like, I've been practicing. And that's where we get the whole thing, like, you know, glass marble, 90 miles an hour.
00:32:58
Speaker
He hits one guy and takes one guy out. And then immediately, like, the other three guys that he's fighting that are in this truck, like, destroy the motorcycle and he falls down and he does not use the sling again.
00:33:20
Speaker
I think he might use it in number five. He uses it again in a later issue, yeah. Yeah, he uses it in number five. avoidilet There's a panel of him very confidently using that sling, and then the next panel of him is being thrown out of a crashing motorcycle.
00:33:38
Speaker
But um Kingsnake goes to Spain and finds this Moorish clock. And it's this MacGuffin that he's going to use to unleash bubonic plague in Hong Kong.
00:33:53
Speaker
And Robin, using computers, figures all this out. Yeah. There's a two-page sequence explaining how this old water clock works.
00:34:04
Speaker
ah hu And how does it work?
Kingsnake's Complex Plague Plan
00:34:07
Speaker
Well, it's gonna work so for plague reasons. It's gonna do a plague.
00:34:17
Speaker
ah Issue 4, I don't know. I don't know that that cover's great either. It's better than the last one. It's got ah Shiva kicking Robin in the face, which is pretty good. It's weird that Shiva's got like an outline.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yes. It's weird that this looks like its color forms.
00:34:33
Speaker
But I'm not Brian Bullen, so you know. But in Issue 4, everybody goes to Hong Kong knowing that...
00:34:44
Speaker
Kingsnake has this plan to... ah unleash bubonic plague. and But he's not going to do it like immediately. It's going to take like a matter of like a few days where they're going to like set it off. It's going to be timed to this clock.
00:35:00
Speaker
And then... They put it in a block of salt. They put in a block of salt, yes. The salt's going to melt. Or be dissolved in the water.
00:35:14
Speaker
Right. And then the plague's going to be in the salt water, and it's good and it's going to get real plaguey, and then be out in Chicago. Or not Chicago. Where did that come from?
00:35:26
Speaker
Hong Kong. Hong Kong. Don't know where that came from, man. This is also, the yes the issue where... Robin wakes up. Shiva is sitting on the end of the bed.
00:35:38
Speaker
And she says, the time has come. And Robin goes, for what? Robin goes, for what? For what?
00:35:50
Speaker
And she goes, time for you to enter a new world. and he goes, I'm not sure I'm ready for this. And she's like, we're not going to fuck. I want to teach you karate.
00:36:01
Speaker
I'm going to teach you how to fight. And he goes, oh, ah I'll be dressed in a minute. And then we find out that Robin, I guess, sleeps in Is this like an A-shirt tucked into tighty-whities? Or is this like a weird singlet that he sleeps in?
00:36:15
Speaker
it It looks like an A-shirt that's too small. No, it's tucked It's tucked in. You're right. Timothy. Like, look.
00:36:27
Speaker
i can I can cop to having been a little mean to Tom Lyle, but some of this is deserved. Yeah, I hate to say it, but yeah. ah Then we get like yeah a long sequence of him choosing a staff. He tells Shiva... Actually, we don't know that that was not in the script.
00:36:47
Speaker
We don't know that Chuck Dixon didn't write, Robin is laying in bed wearing a tank top tucked into a pair of briefs. And then when he says, I'll be dressed in a minute, he's hunched over like a gargoyle.
00:37:03
Speaker
He gets out of bed, make sure you show him in the tank top tucked into a pair of briefs. That's very important. Yeah, he's it's we gotta show that. We gotta get that in there. Also, Lady Shiva's a full-grown-ass adult.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah. I know but the that timelines in comics are nebulous, and we don't know this yet, and we won't know it for another 13 years, but Shiva has a daughter Tim's age.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:34
Speaker
And she said Tim's really – Tim, the detective of the Robins, is really out here like, I'm pretty sure she came in here to fuck.
00:37:48
Speaker
And she teaches him martial arts by beating his ass. He is bleeding from the mouth at the end of this fight.
00:37:57
Speaker
And she says, you let your anger control you. Only a fool thinks anger will help him in a fight. And instead of being like, uh, sorry, Clyde's like, you got your ass beat.
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah, man. And then Tim, we see him whittling. Yep. And he whittles like a little notch into his staff so that it makes a whistle noise.
00:38:21
Speaker
Whistles go woo. Remember that guy? Whistles go woo. Remember Bub Rub? Whistles go woo. Mm-hmm. That guy was from the internet. So that when he swings it, it'll make a noise and go woo, and that'll give him an edge.
00:38:35
Speaker
Which I don't know...
00:38:39
Speaker
i feel like Batman traditionally relies a lot on stealth. And this is the opposite of that, but it does play into something later. yeah Then Robin does a crank call, and it works.
00:38:53
Speaker
he He does a crank call where he pretends to be Kingsnake. And the dude that he's talking to just believes that it's him. Yeah, with the wackest hair that we have yet seen in this entire series.
00:39:07
Speaker
Yeah, there's pretty way. that He looks like that ah like that like a Barbie doll that got all his hair ripped out. ah to Very accurate, yeah. um We finally do see Kingsnake without a shirt with his shirt open to see his big snake tattoo, which I swear to God had to be Tom Lyle being like, Chuck, why is this guy named Kingsnake?
00:39:31
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, okay, so here's the plan. Here's Kingsnake's plan. We will install the bioweapon in one of our clock's hour receptacles. The plague agent will be encased in a block of salt.
00:39:43
Speaker
The container will fill in 12 hours. The salt will take another three to melt. The scourge will be airborne and dispersed through our ventilation system to fall on the city. They're in the stinking alleys and miserable hovels hovels it may breed.
00:39:56
Speaker
Sour grapes indeed for our mainland friends, but we shall be long gone by that time. So it's going to take 15 hours yeah for it to get into the air. And we're going to be long gone. 15 hours from now, we have yet to leave.
00:40:12
Speaker
Issue 5 has the coolest art on the first page, which is... And probably the coolest cover. Like, 5 and 1 have the best covers. Yeah. um It's Robin looking into like the visible part of a window of a big glass building.
00:40:29
Speaker
But it is weird that you can only see through that glass. But it's an atrium. Yeah. But you can't see see through any of the other windows. I mean, I guess the lights are off in those windows. I don't know. but The lights are on in the atrium.
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah. Where he's brought his imported Moroccan water clock. and re this He bought an imported Moroccan water clock. A thousand-year-old water clock.
00:40:56
Speaker
Yes. ah He stole it. I don't think he bought it. No, he buys it. He gives the guy money. Because the guy's like, oh, senor, can't sell this. It's been in my family for years, you know for generations. Oh, I i but i like made a vow to to protect it, is what he says. yeah Yeah, and he's like, and if you don't sell it to me, this will be your last generation.
00:41:18
Speaker
Take the money. So like he buys it. Okay. And then has it brought to Hong Kong and rebuilt. like Disassembled, brought to Hong Kong, rebuilt in this building.
00:41:30
Speaker
This is, even for a Batman villain, this is complicated. I mean, again, it's like it's James Bond shit. It's what it is. like um but like It's wild to me that this dude is like, I'm going buy, disassemble, and rebuild this thousand-year-old water clock.
00:41:50
Speaker
And then Hong Kong is going to be uninhabitable. So we're going to leave that there. yes Also, I forgot to mention, the whole bubonic plague thing in the salt is like a Nazi project. that's That's discussed at one point.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah, because the Nazis the nazis had it. Yeah. that His plan keeps getting longer and longer. or his his like The guy who's running it first says, in a week's time, the level – or each hour will divert a half liter of water from the clock to this cylinder.
00:42:21
Speaker
In a week's time, the level will have risen to the salt block. Then, Kingsnake says, then 12 hours for the salt to melt into a salt solution, the perfect breeding ground for those nasty microbes. More than enough time to wrap up affairs here and move on.
00:42:34
Speaker
Seven and a half days, then we make our fortune in America. That's it. Okay, so it's it's a week and then 15 hours. And then 15 hours. To melt a salt block that I guess is airtight.
00:42:52
Speaker
Seemingly so, yes. We see a scientist carrying it around in a fucking igloo cooler. Uh-huh. Which is pretty wild. like he's going Like he's going to tailgate. um We have also not discussed Bobbo.
00:43:08
Speaker
ah That's ah King Snake's right-hand man, Bobbo. It sure is. Yep. Matt, Bobbo's racist, right? I've... Hmm...
00:43:22
Speaker
Bobo is Kingsnake's black manservant.
00:43:27
Speaker
Who is not depicted as like particularly... like you know he speaks very properly and is like normal, but also his name is Bobo and he has this wild hair.
00:43:45
Speaker
look at him and you're like... and you're like This has to be ah a racist caricature of someone, right? His name's Bobbo.
00:43:59
Speaker
i i sincerely don't know. Like, I think it's fair to assume that, but like, there's nothing in the comic that makes that super apparent.
00:44:14
Speaker
so So I don't, I sincerely don't know. Yeah.
00:44:20
Speaker
Clyde and Shiva are like, hey, we're going to go kill King Snake.
Final Confrontation & Character Outcomes
00:44:25
Speaker
And Rowan's like, no. Shiva's like, no no, no, We're going to wait. We're going to like wait for the right moment.
00:44:33
Speaker
And Clyde's like, no, I'm going in right now. Because I can't stand it. I've got to kill this guy. He killed my family. I don't care about saving Hong Kong. I only care about revenge. So he goes like running into the building.
00:44:48
Speaker
And so Tim has to like find the the breaker box for the building. like He goes in the sewer and finds the breaker box and it starts turning off like security stuff just as Clyde is running through it.
00:45:04
Speaker
So he doesn't immediately get caught and killed. Right. So they go do some stuff. Clyde gets fucked up by... goes to...
00:45:14
Speaker
clyve goes to Kingsnake's office, and yeah, kingstake Kingsnake gives him color like ah in a wrestling match. Yeah, he he gives him he gives him a quick blade job.
00:45:25
Speaker
he's He's got color. He's he's like bleeding from the forehead like Dusty Rhodes gigged him. Yeah, it's great. And you know what?
00:45:38
Speaker
ah to Kingsnake did that right in front of the commentator's desk and nobody knew it wasn't Hardway. Yeah. that's how That's how crisp his his work was. That's right. He doesn't even have ah wrist tape on and to hide the blade in.
00:45:51
Speaker
Amazing. So, Robin...
00:45:57
Speaker
Robin is sneaking around, gets caught immediately, but he's like, I'm going to try and stop the plague thing. yeah So he goes to the water clock. Now, Matt, I'm going to pretend... i'm going to do a little roleplaying.
00:46:10
Speaker
all right Chuck Dixon. And I'm going to read this as I would write the script. Okay. Panel 1. Mercenaries rush into the atrium.
00:46:24
Speaker
Bobbo. He came this way. Bring him out into the open. I want a clear shot. Panel 2. Bobbo sees Robin up on the catwalk and raises his rifle.
00:46:37
Speaker
Wait! There he is! In the clock! Panel 3. Bobbo shoots at Robin, but Robin ducks, and the shot hits the water clock mechanism that is meant to be transporting water.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yes, making water pour out. Yes. Robin, some dialogue that doesn't matter. Panel 5, doesn't matter. Panel 6, the same page.
00:47:10
Speaker
Panel 6, a scientist runs up. yelling at Bobbo. What are you doing? The scientist, what are you doing? If a stray shot should break the salt block that encloses the contaminant, we could all be exposed. You would release the plague.
00:47:24
Speaker
Bobbo. Stray shot? I never miss!
00:47:30
Speaker
He's just missed like times. Two panels. Yeah. And then... We cut back to Rollins and Kingsnake for a page, and then we cut back to Bobbo shooting the scientist in the chest with a rifle, going, here's your stray shot, my friend.
00:47:48
Speaker
You did just miss. Twice, at least twice. And and like here's the thing. So he didn't hit the the the salt, but he hit the water clock and made water come out.
00:48:06
Speaker
Doesn't that ruin the plan? i would You would think. You would certainly think. Plan, over. Like, it was all reliant on the water melting the salts.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. There's a whole bit earlier when Dorrance buys the clock where he's like, hey, your firm specializes in dismantling and reassembling antique machinery like this, right?
00:48:30
Speaker
Don't fuck this up or I'm going to kill you. It has to work perfectly when we get it back to Hong Kong. Don't fuck this up by, say, shooting a high caliber bullet into the pipes. Then, after he shoots the scientist, Robin uses his sling to throw a screw into the barrel of Babo's gun.
00:48:50
Speaker
Making the gun explode, Babo is dead. Babo certainly seems dead as fuck. Yeah. Robin killed that guy. Yeah, man.
00:49:03
Speaker
Robin's like, hey, let's ah keep this one between me and Hong Kong. Yeah. we don't even get We don't even get a Doc says Duke's gonna be ah okay for Bobbo. For Bobbo. Bobbo, that is a wrap on Bobbo.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah. ah Robin fights Kingsnake.
Robin's Return & Growth
00:49:23
Speaker
Kingsnake, we might have mentioned, is blind. We might have mentioned it once. It was only mentioned once previous to this. yes ah So he distracts him with his whistling staff, and then they fight for a little bit, and then Robin beats him, and then she was like, you should kill him.
00:49:45
Speaker
Well, okay, so Robin kicks him out of a window. And so that might have killed him. But Kingsnake grabs onto a piece of scaffolding and is is about to fall.
00:50:01
Speaker
And that's when Shiva goes shows up and she's like, ah you should kill him. Yeah. ah Why don't you kill him? And Robin's like, no, I'm not going to do it.
00:50:12
Speaker
So um Shiva just kills him. Yeah, so Robin just like goes back inside. and then the next the next panel is is Much like when Hitler was burned to death, Kingsnake going, no! And then Robin just kind of like glumly looking over his shoulder, and it's like, you didn't even try and save him, bud.
00:50:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Also, Clyde is dead. Kingsnake killed him. Yeah. Yeah. And like Robin shows up and he's like, I'm too late.
00:50:48
Speaker
And then he's just like dragging Clyde's dead body out of there. um And then he meets Henri Ducard, who's been showing up occasionally in this.
00:50:59
Speaker
Because he got hired some people to get involved in this and then did nothing. Some people hired him to kill Kingsnake. And then he did and then it's like he shows up and he's like, damn, Kingsnake's dead. Alright, cool. I guess ah I'm going to collect that 50 million bucks.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah, like I'll collect that bounty, ah having done no work. Don't worry, Robin. I killed him, wink, wink. ah And then Robin goes back Gotham City, where we see that Lynx and her Chinese youth gang... Yes, yes, yes.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, he he finds he meets Lynx, and she's like, look what happened. Look what it happened to me, because it's your fault. Yeah, it's not really explained how Lynx got from...
00:51:43
Speaker
Paris to Gotham City, although I guess she was maybe in charge of shipping a giant crate of money, like shipping container full of cash to ah to Gotham City.
00:51:59
Speaker
By the way, there's a panel, like Robin beats up all the dudes and Lynx is kind of like down on the ground and Robin walks up, grabs her by the arm and has drawn back his open palm like he's just going to slap the shit out of her.
00:52:14
Speaker
And goes, I've been waiting for this, Lynx. And the narration's like, just one thing left to do. And like she's down. She's done. One thing left to do is slap a woman.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, man. What the fuck? And then we find out that she got her eye gouged out. And then Batman shows up and he's like, so Robin, you kill two dudes and try and slap a woman?
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah. so Seems like you've learned all you need to. Yep. Congratulations, Robin. You can be Robin now. Yeah.
00:52:50
Speaker
Oof. um don't know. that I might have to downgrade this one from b minus to a B- to Yeah, the more we talk about it, the less I like this.
00:53:02
Speaker
Like... it It reads as exactly one standard length of comic. But the bull the more we think about the actual story implications and how Robin sort of killed people and like the way Ling gets treated and all of that, it's like, oh, maybe this sucks, actually.
00:53:23
Speaker
like Maybe this is worse than average. And it's full-out bad.
00:53:36
Speaker
I don't think I like it. i mean i do want to show you this panel um real quick of Tim Drake looking like a fucking Akewood character. Okay. ah While you look at the list.
00:53:48
Speaker
I mean, it's not like the bottom of the list, but I'm i'm thinking like thirteen hundreds maybe. or fourteen hundred s even.
00:54:02
Speaker
yeah i'm looking in the fourteen hundred like is this is Is this as bad as Venom Lethal Protector? I think Lethal Protector is better. Oh, he fully looks like an Aigwood character right there.
00:54:15
Speaker
He looks like one of the brothers in the syndicate.
00:54:22
Speaker
He looks like he's about to tell Philippe what the ah saddest thing is. Yeah, man. I'm looking at like... It's probably better than Blackest Night...
00:54:35
Speaker
Alright, Lethal Protector is at 1388. Where's Blackest Night? I'm in the 1450s. Okay. he Is it worse than Longshot? Blackest Night, we might have ranked too high.
00:54:49
Speaker
like i recently I recently revisited Blackest Night, and boy, it sucks. It sucks shit, man. 1457 is pretty low on the list.
00:55:03
Speaker
ah Yeah, the like... In the very first issue, Ralph and Sue Dibney, who have been revived, kill Hawkman and Hawkgirl. And they're like, we hate you because you're in love.
00:55:16
Speaker
That's pretty bad. It sucks.
00:55:20
Speaker
Anyway, okay. Above Blackest Night. um
00:55:27
Speaker
Secret Wars 2 is at number 1444. And that's a story where Spider-Man teaches the Beyonder how to poop.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think Batman and Dracula Red Reign's better than this. A story I famously do not like.
00:55:47
Speaker
I think it probably has to go below the killing joke. Yeah, that's... that if For no other reason, Brian Bullen's a lot better than Tom Lyle. Sorry, Tom.
00:56:00
Speaker
He only does the covers in this. Hey, Sheba looks whack all the way through this. Again... No consistency in character design. Yeah, she does wear the weirdest clothes consistently throughout those.
00:56:14
Speaker
So yeah, worse than The Killing Joke. I think it's definitely worse than Longbow Hunters. Zero hours at 1449. It's worse than that.
00:56:26
Speaker
I think it's worse than Zero Hour, yeah. ah So yeah, better worse than Longshot. Worse.
00:56:35
Speaker
Better than that ah creepy story called Jennifer. I mean, that had Bernie Wrights in art, so... Yeah. But that that story is pretty pretty not good.
00:56:47
Speaker
um It's probably is it better than the Ultimate Galactus trilogy. We at least at least came off reading it and we were like... Well, we've already decided that it's a better than Blackest Night and Jennifer, which is at 1455. Okay.
00:57:00
Speaker
okay So we just have to determine whether it's better or worse than that story in Time Warp number 3. Probably better. Okay, so this is the new number 1454.
00:57:15
Speaker
Robin 1, 1991, enters the list at number 1454.
00:57:22
Speaker
ah Big Chuck D, back on the list.
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah, i i I definitely came into this being like, oh, this is a totally average comic book. And... um Then we discussed it, and I was like, no, it's worse.
00:57:39
Speaker
I do want to send a special message to Tom Lyle, real quick. um um In heaven? In heaven. Which is that, look, Matt was talking a lot of shit about you.
00:57:52
Speaker
And I defended you.
00:57:57
Speaker
And you're out here making me look like an asshole, Tom Lyle.
00:58:03
Speaker
What are you doing, man? Making me look like I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about with this nonsense in here drawing fucking Akewood-ass looking Tim Drake, man.
00:58:19
Speaker
Maybe I was on to something. The longer we stay on this call, Matt, the lower this book's going to get. Okay, we then we better then we better wrap it up.
Episode Conclusion & Listener Engagement
00:58:29
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:58:31
Speaker
If you would like to suggest something for us to read for Comics Catch-Up next time, um you can email us at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast at gmail.com. That is also where you can send every story of our lists and listener questions and let us know if you want to sponsor the show.
00:58:49
Speaker
um You can do all of that there at our email address. You can also get in touch with us on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. We're on BlueSky, WarRocketAjax.com there.
00:59:00
Speaker
And ah you can join our Discord, which you have to be invited to be a member of. But if you ask us for an invitation to any of those places, ah then we will provide you with that invitation. And you can join us there if you are nice about it.
00:59:14
Speaker
If you want to support these Comics Catch-Up episodes as well well as everything else that we do here at Colitis Media, go to Patreon.com slash WarRocketAjax to ah kick in as little as a dollar a month to help us out.
00:59:28
Speaker
Our website is warrocketajax.com, and as everyps every episode of the show we've ever done, warrocketwiki.com is the fan-run repository of all you could want or need to know about this show, War Rocket Ajax, so go check that out.
00:59:41
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website.
00:59:56
Speaker
It has links to everything that I do here and there around the web.
01:00:02
Speaker
Bye, everybody. We'll be back in August with another comic that we will catch up on. Until then, thanks for listening, everybody.
01:00:13
Speaker
Good catching up.