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102. Visual Arts & Grief- With Preston Zeller
82 Plays3 years ago
Preston Zeller is an artist with accomplishments across multiple mediums, including film, photography, music, and fine art. Following the death of his brother in 2019, Preston set out to paint for a year straight to process his own grief and share the experience along the way to stir conversation about how we deal with grief in society. The 365 paintings, which create a 10’x20’ mosaic, are the subject of a feature-length documentary entitled, “The Art of Grieving”. The documentary is set for release in Spring 2022. Preston now helps others through grief by creating commemorative paintings using the ashes of a loved one. His goal is to normalize grief conversations in culture and proliferate healthy ways of dealing with grief.
Contact Preston Zeller:
Film website: https://theartofgrievingfilm.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/prestonzeller
IG: https://www.instagram.com/theartofgrievingdoc
FB: theartofgrievingdoc
Here’s our first public review:
https://filmthreat.com/reviews/the-art-of-grieving/
The film will premiere in the UK in June at a theatre.
Contact Kendra Rinaldi for life or grief coaching or to be a guest on the podcast: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/griefgratitudepodcast/
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Transcript
Emotional Expression Through Art
00:00:01
Speaker
So certainly each piece or like, you know, sets of the pieces were there were reflection point actually had in front of my screen at the time in my office, I had like a rolling 30 days of every single painting. So I changed them out every single day and it gave me like this visual progress of what I was doing. And, you know, there I mean, certainly times where I dealt with anger issues, times where
00:00:29
Speaker
I was maybe more depressive times where I felt like I was more joyful times, you know, just kind of that roller coaster of emotion. And I could see that in the paintings, at least, you know, when I was looking at them.
Introduction to Grief-Focused Podcast
00:00:47
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:54
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:10
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for choosing to listen to the podcast today.
Artist's Grieving Process
00:01:37
Speaker
You will be hearing this conversation that I'm having with Preston Zeller today. He is an artist with accomplishments across various multiple mediums, including film photography, music, and fine art.
00:01:52
Speaker
And today we will be talking particularly about how he used art in the process of grieving the passing of his brother who passed away in 2019. So I am excited to have this conversation. Welcome.
00:02:12
Speaker
Hey, Kendra. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here.
Documentary on Art and Grief
00:02:16
Speaker
And we will be talking a lot about the upcoming documentary that you made called The Art of Grieving. Am I saying I'm like, I'm not reading it at the moment, so I hope. Yeah, I did get it right. The Art of Grieving, which I think is a beautiful title because even if you even if the documentary didn't have to do about art,
00:02:37
Speaker
Just the time that there is an art in the process of grieving, even if it's not an actual medium. So it's just so perfect. But a perfect title. So welcome once again. Thank you. Yeah. I'm looking forward to chatting with you.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yes.
Preston's Early Life and Influences
00:02:52
Speaker
And I was telling you, we were just going to be talking just candidly and just about life a little bit. And we'll cover all the different aspects about you as well as your brother's passing and the grief. So tell us more about you first and your family, the family you grew up with, and then the family you chose as well, if you don't mind.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I mean, I grew up in California, in Southern California, and I, you know, one of three kids, parents who fortunately, they're still married, which is, which is great, and a middle
Career Shift from Film to Art
00:03:31
Speaker
child. So I grew up in the older brother, younger sister, and you know, we were about three, four years apart, each of us, but yeah, we had a pretty like, I guess, typical kind of middle class upbringing, and
00:03:44
Speaker
you know, enjoyed going to the beach, played lots of sports, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, eventually, you know, I went away to college and studied film production and that kind of stuff and worked in the film industry.
00:04:00
Speaker
And, you know, I've been in the arts most of my life. And it's, you know, I started out doing kind of fine art stuff when I was or just art classes, I guess you'd say when when I was young, my mom's an artist. And so I learned a lot of that from her. But it really manifested in the way of music for a long time. So I've been a musician for a long time as well. That's what I pursued for many years.
00:04:28
Speaker
And then, yeah, went into film yet another kind of like creative medium. And then I really got disenchanted with the music industry at some point and just completely got out of it. Went into more like a marketing field and, you know, kind of continue to do, you know, film videography related stuff there.
Impact of Family and Loss
00:04:50
Speaker
But in 2011, I want to say, met my wife and we got married a year later.
00:04:57
Speaker
And yeah, I had three kids pretty quickly, so they're all like 18 months apart.
00:05:04
Speaker
and, uh, lived in, um, moved to Washington state for a while where my wife was from and, you know, started, uh, raising kids there. And then, yeah, that kind of led up to 2019. Where, uh, you know, my brother passed away and a lot of things kind of changed from there as well. But, um, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the, the nutshell version.
00:05:28
Speaker
the umbrella version of your family dynamics. My gosh, as you're talking, I ask people also like where they've lived, where they're from. I find it intriguing also when people move. I've moved and I actually lived in every single state you have moved in so far. Yeah, we both live in Texas right now. I went to college in California and when I moved here from Columbia, I lived in Washington.
00:05:56
Speaker
You're only missing two of my state lost. You're missing Massachusetts and Georgia. And then and then you would have lived. We would have lived in all the same. Yeah. So those are the two extra states I've lived in.
Personal Growth Through Travel
00:06:09
Speaker
You know, I will say I had a pretty I never lived on East Coast, but I had a pretty formidable experience in college where I lived in a study abroad in France and worked at the Cannes Film Festival and stuff there. And so I was in Europe for like five months, got to go to 11 countries while I was there. And it was pretty scrappy. You know, I just had a backpack and I was going by myself on trains and whatnot. But I was.
00:06:38
Speaker
goodness, 19 at the time. And then I worked at the film festival again the year later, but I, you know, that was a lot of traveling in a short period of time and, you know, really impactful year and ages in my life. And, you know, someday I would like to get back to doing that again, you know, probably post kids and stuff. But yeah, otherwise, I was pretty much all West Coast until a couple of years ago.
00:07:08
Speaker
Until now, yeah, Texas. Do you find it that there's a lot of growth that happens with travel, like with those kind of experiences, a lot of growth opportunities and those changes?
00:07:21
Speaker
Oh, well, for sure. I mean, you know, you're seeing, of course, different cultures. And even in the U.S., I think, you know, there's exposure to different cultures. But once you get into a different language and, you know, places like, I mean, pretty much anywhere but the U.S. that has really old roots, right?
00:07:43
Speaker
Um, you know, I was in Europe, I, I ventured over to Greece at some point at which you're kind of like, you know, teetering on going in the middle East and just the history there is more like thousands of years old and the, you know, you just experienced those cultures in such a different way. I went, I learned French while I was there. That's part of the reason why I went there. So, um, you know, getting to like learn a different language and speak that language with people in that culture is also like, it's huge, hugely gratifying and revealing about
00:08:13
Speaker
by yourself and what you learn about people. I love it. I love traveling. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I know that sometimes people don't realize even if you haven't moved anywhere in your life, like if you have lived where you were born,
00:08:30
Speaker
You don't even see like how much, there's a grief component even in those aspects of moving too. There's this shedding, leaving behind and so forth as well. But then there's also then that growth that occurs in that discovering of either new cultures. You have to find a new set of friendships every time you move somewhere. Sometimes people have to find a new
00:08:54
Speaker
church or a new you know every everything right a new job if they've moved for a job then they you know it's a it's a lot of change that happens in a move um so so anyway so i i'm i'm always curious about that because i feel that even if we have not experienced grief in the terms of death which both of us have and actually i've also had a sister i had a sister who passed away so we share the loss of a sibling in common um
00:09:22
Speaker
You have still experienced grief before that, just not in the shape of death. And therefore, you have some aspects of tools that you didn't even know you did have. So so anyway, so thank you for sharing that.
00:09:37
Speaker
Now, let's go into then your relationship with your brother, Colin, and what what, you know, a little bit about the circumstances around his passing, how you found out and then how that completely shifted.
Relationship with Brother Colin
00:09:52
Speaker
And I know I I don't want to I don't want to spoil your movie either because I want people to see it. But because they will find out more details. But if you don't mind sharing that as well, please.
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, something I don't get into like too far in the movie rabbit trail wise is like, you know, nuances of our relationship just because it's not. And you don't have to. Even for the podcast purposes, you don't have to. No, you know, I'm happy to talk about it. I mean, it's I don't get into it in the movie as much because it's it's not really a documentary about our relationship.
00:10:33
Speaker
Which if it was, then, you know, there'd be a lot more there. But yeah, I mean, he was four years older than me. And there is, you know, it's funny, I tell, I realized this actually like six months ago. I think when you have siblings, they impact these like early vows you make in life.
00:10:57
Speaker
And I had made one sort of about my brother and you make these vows because they are part of the early things that shape you, the early relationships that shape you. But one of them was as my brother and I got older, my brother, we were just competitive. I would say it was always a little more lopsided.
00:11:20
Speaker
At least it felt like that him towards me, you know, he wanted to make sure that he had, you know, this thumb on me and that he was going to the middle. You're the middle child, right? Because your sister is the youngest of the three of you, right? Yeah, right. Yeah. But, you know, as my brother got older and, you know, gotten drugs and started in a more serious way, you know, that was probably around like, you know, getting into college 18, 19, 20.
00:11:49
Speaker
Um, he tried to like loop me into some of his shenanigans, right? And I was probably pretty judgy of him at the time. Cause I, you know, I saw some of what he was doing and it was just like, well, that's really gross to me. And, um, you know, of course he didn't like that, but I made this vow early in life that I was going to like, I was just going to be better than him. I was going to.
00:12:12
Speaker
be better in career, be better in family life, all this kind of stuff. So I had some innate desires there as well, but that was this unconscious driving force for a while. And so I realized that that was part of the emptiness I had after he passed away was that that vow no longer held anything.
00:12:37
Speaker
And I think people probably don't realize how much those vows exist, especially with parents too. I think at least one of your parents, you're gonna be like, and it's oftentimes like if you're a woman, it's your mom, if it's your male, it's your dad, but you have this kind of thing where
00:13:07
Speaker
You want to maybe prove them wrong to some degree or or prove them right. You know, whatever it is. But when that person passes away, you're like, I feel rudderless now. What is it?
00:13:20
Speaker
And so that was one of those things where, you know, as we got into adulthood and whatnot, it was like there are certain seasons in life where we are like really close. And mind you, we're both like building our families. He never had kids, but he was married for over 10 years.
00:13:40
Speaker
But, you know, you're building your families. We eventually lived in different states and, you know, he was in the military, so he actually moved around quite a bit. That was a layer of complexity, right? You know, you're coming home from, he was in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so he's coming home.
00:13:58
Speaker
has all sorts of really his own forms of grief there. Yeah, grief and trauma associated that and the tools he used were just not the right ones, per se, probably to cope with those emotions. Yeah, I mean, he was certainly being medicated in a way that even after I made the documentary and reflecting on it, I'm like,
00:14:24
Speaker
You know, I'm kind of like talking about his grief, but not directly, but that's, that's what drugs are generally used for. You're like masking the need to, um, address some kind of, um, deep down issue that you have. And you know, of course, uh, unfortunately in, um, military world, you know, these people come back and they're a wreck and they prescribe them a lot of medication. Um, and of course, uh, unfortunately a lot of it's like, you know, fentanyl related now, but.
00:14:54
Speaker
So, you know, as so as adults, it kind of became hard to like share wins in life with him. You know, he could be happy for me, maybe sometimes I had one really interesting experience actually on. So in the beginning of the documentary, right, there's this like footage on a cruise ship. And that was the last time I hung out with him, which is partially why it's in there. And we didn't have much footage together, period. So that was really kind of
00:15:24
Speaker
funny that, um, so I, I had a GoPro on that trip. He goes and buys a GoPro as well. Cause I have one. He didn't ever use it. So it's from his perspective, what's getting shot, but
00:15:38
Speaker
We're at dinner one night and, uh, you know, they have like a formal night on cruise ships. And so, uh, of course he didn't dress up for some reason, but my, uh, my mom had this idea. She's like, I want, let's go all around the table and say something nice about the person to your right. Well, I happen to be sitting on the right of my brother. And so when it came around to him, I was like, Oh, what's he going to say something really cynical? Maybe I don't know.
00:16:07
Speaker
But he said something really sincere. And he's like, you know, I've always admired Preston's creativity and I wish I had that. And I just don't. And and then he kind of, you know, he elaborated on it, elaborated on it more. I'm like, well, that was a really cool thing to say. So I know that if he could, you know, see all that I was doing, it would be like probably feed into his ego a lot. And like, wow, but
00:16:37
Speaker
Uh, that was a sibling rivalry there. It's funny cause you didn't want to, you didn't want to let him know how much that had moved you because you're like, well, I don't want to feed his ego, but it did move me. But you know, for I said, as you're saying here, I'm like feeling really moved because.
00:16:54
Speaker
that aspect of especially when you have those dynamics and you're four years apart. I was two years apart from my sister. There's always the sibling rivalry. And as a sibling, you remember those things. Yet at the same time, sometimes when you're grieving, it's really hard to share very candidly that when you're grieving the loss of anybody, anybody regardless.
00:17:17
Speaker
We sometimes end up putting the memories on a pedestal of everything that was just so perfect. We sometimes don't share the things that weren't. I want to first off acknowledge you for being so open of sharing about this.
00:17:33
Speaker
dynamic that you have that is raw and real because we tend to not do that because we feel as if we're disrespecting those that have passed. But it isn't. It's honoring the trueness of the relationship as well and that that is just what it
00:17:49
Speaker
what it was and in that midst all that there's still this constant love right still that doesn't mean that because there's all these intrinsic kind of little dynamics in a family that the love is not there the love was always there so so thank you for sharing that
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. So then that was the part a little bit about then the dynamics. So tell us you were working. Where were you working at the time when you got what kind of job you said market you had been into marketing when you got out? Is that correct?
00:18:24
Speaker
So how did you feel when you were in that job, you get the phone call of your father, your brother's passing?
Corporate Life Reevaluation
00:18:33
Speaker
This is what month of 2019? What month in February of 2019? How did how did that news impact you and
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah. How how did you hear that news and how did it how did it kind of sink in? Yeah, I mean, so I was working in an environment where. It was really hectic tech job, basically, you know, most you hear about these tech companies that are like, oh, they have a one billion dollar valuation that, you know, which is some, you know, milestone they call unicorn status, but
00:19:19
Speaker
Um, I, it was like the day after we had just publicly announced that we, um, these, the two biggest companies in our space were coming together and our company had bought theirs, but wasn't really the case. And so it's just, um, got a mid higher up role there at the time, but it was just all like corporate hoopla, I guess. And.
00:19:47
Speaker
You know, when you're in a company like that, you are very, uh, into the, I guess the mental cycles of, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do anything for this company. And, you know, the companies you live, you know, eat and sleep it because you're so committed to climbing the ladder and all this kind of stuff. So I'm just really wrapped up in that. And, um, yeah, I came out of a meeting and.
00:20:17
Speaker
you know, basically was in my office and found out about it. And I think one of the first things that came to mind is I wasn't sure if he had committed suicide. And that was a huge question I had because it was just like, you know, he's dead. We don't know what from. And yeah, so and I didn't I knew he had like different types of pharmaceuticals at the time and
00:20:45
Speaker
You know, my my sister-in-law is candid about this now, but, you know, she was kind of a codependent in that relationship because there was just so much of that floating around. So, you know, different drugs being prescribed. And so it just you would just when I got together with him, I would, you know, he had his like military backpack you would carry around. But now I saw him taking random stuff. But I'm like, I didn't really.
00:21:10
Speaker
chastise him on what it was. I was just like, you know, kind of mental noted. Oh, there's just kind of another thing. But but yeah, so I found out about it and I was like, you know, I guess I just got to go home.
Emotional Shell and Introspection
00:21:23
Speaker
I need to leave here. Left here. And I was actually carpooling with a friend at the time. And it was interesting as I I walked in. I just walked into this meeting he was in and I said, Frank, you got to come with me.
00:21:38
Speaker
You got to go. He's like, what's going on? I'm like, I have a family emergency. And he goes, OK. And he follows me into his office and I'm like, my brother's dead. We got to go back. We got to go home. And he you know, he's just like, OK, you know, goes and grabs his stuff. And I I was actually driving. I didn't really ask him to drive, but I kind of knew I had to at least keep it together to drive.
00:22:08
Speaker
You know, I didn't want to be going down the road, this basket case, but I think up to that point in life, um, I had, I had a certain perception or certain, certain mode of operating that was, um, the, uh, around my emotions and how to handle that. And like, mind you, you know, I got married pretty young. I was 24 and I got married. I had, I started having kids, uh, pretty young by today's standards. And I'm the sole breadwinner in my family.
00:22:37
Speaker
So, you know, that's a lot of pressure. And so I just developed this kind of shell. And when my brother died, it very much like this, you know, golden hammer hit that shell and made me start really questioning eventually. Why I function the way I do and how I was ever going to process
00:23:07
Speaker
the loss of my brother in a way that was like I knew deep down to be true, because there was a time when I was songwriting where it was just raw all the time. And because of, you know, life's responsibilities, I again developed that protective shell. And so that set off this certain, of course, chain of events. That's like something's got to be done.
00:23:38
Speaker
Preston, thank you. Yeah. God, we'll just take a second. Yeah. When you're talking about then
00:24:04
Speaker
the part of finding out. So you shared a little bit then of the shell that you had developed of protection in your life. So when you found out, then you were still kind of feeling like you had this shell on for a little bit as a guard or a mask or whatever we want to call this armor.
00:24:29
Speaker
armor that we sometimes carry that serves as well at times. Like you said, as an MO, as a mode of operation, as a breadwinner, as a parent, as a spouse, so that you can keep going and producing and having an income. You sometimes put your emotions on the side.
00:24:51
Speaker
So, you are finding this news, you carpool with your friend, and you were here in Texas at that time, correct? I was in Washington, actually. Oh, you lived in Washington then? Okay. So, you're in Washington at that time. And then, when did you fly that same day back home as California?
Return to California and Family
00:25:17
Speaker
Did you fly back that same day?
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was like the next day. It was kind of conflicted, right? Because I mean, my my brother or my my wife knew my brother well, my for my especially my oldest daughter, she knew my brother pretty well. You know, they didn't see him a ton, but we talked about him, got pictures of him, FaceTime him, that kind of thing. So I'm kind of conflicted because I'm like, well, my wife and my kids and my priority number one hands down now.
00:25:51
Speaker
I don't want to like, you know, just abandon them in the middle of this. And so I just kept in touch with my family. And at a certain point, I was talking to my dad. He's like, you need to be down here. You need to come be with us. They were in Southern California in the Palm Springs area. And. Yeah, I took this horrible connecting flight that got delayed through San Francisco.
00:26:17
Speaker
You know, it dawned on me, though, as you know, I take this flight out. My wife had a actually pretty severe panic attack on the way to the airport where we actually had to pull over on the freeway and like change drivers for the last like five minutes of the drive because all this was sitting, you know, hitting her that, you know, death and I have to go leave for who knows how long to deal with my brother and
00:26:44
Speaker
She's got three kids that she's got to, you know, look after. And, but as I was walking through the San Francisco terminal, getting my connecting flight, um, I just, it dawned on me how many people you could just see. And no, you have no idea what they're going through. Zero clue.
00:27:06
Speaker
And I'm just listening to music or talking to someone, probably my sister on the phone. So that was kind of a strange realization. But yeah, I went down there and I was there for about a week, but that week was very,
00:27:28
Speaker
You know, my, my parents were of course, you know, basket case, even my dad, you know, who's, who, uh, you know, I probably learned a lot of my emotionality from, he was a rec, um, courses, his wife was, um, and I, and I went and, you know, I had a nice experience with her where we, uh, I, I took her out to some hike in Palm Springs and.
00:27:52
Speaker
We just kind of walked around and reminisced about my brother and then went and found some high point and prayed over her and the situation. But I still felt like I was not quite being allowed to just be with myself and what I thought, right? Because this is an unexpected death and he was 35 when he died.
00:28:21
Speaker
There's no preparation for those things. What are we gonna do with the body? What are we gonna do for a memorial? Who do we want there? Do we want anyone there? You know, all these strange, yeah, I'd say business mode questions. Business, yeah. I call it, yeah, it's like you're still in that business mode around death. It's like all the...
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It doesn't really allow space sometimes for the grief because you're so busy with the calls that this that that making sure that you settle all this. Yeah. Yeah. So I can I can relate to what you're saying. Yeah. It was it was kind of interesting, actually. We of course, there's a lot of people that reach out in the middle of this where
00:29:10
Speaker
Uh, they go, well, let me know if there's anything I can do. And, you know, some, some people want to send flowers and things like that. But, um, what unfortunately, so my, my brother was not great with finances. Um, we ended up finding out that he had a lot of credit card debt. And, uh, I'm like, well, uh, and, and my sister-in-law is working in the beauty industry. Um, you know, which is like a pretty, um,
00:29:41
Speaker
Uh, it's not a high paying job. Let's put it that way. Right. So she's kind of saddled with all these bills that cropped up and there's some, in some cases they'll expunge debt in case of debt, uh, death rather, but, uh, in other cases they won't. So, uh, there was just a lot of weird stuff there, but, um, at any rate, we, we started to go fund me just to be like, Hey, you know, he didn't have a life insurance policy.
00:30:08
Speaker
but we raised $25,000 for her. And that was kind of interesting because I had to sit with her, hear her story, and then I sort of rewrote this narrative version of that for this GoFundMe, and we just shared it.
00:30:25
Speaker
And that was pretty cool to see. I mean, I had a lot of coworkers who donated to it, including the, you know, CEO and president of the company I was at. And then, um, we, there's a lot of family and friends and that was a really neat thing that came out of it, I guess, you know, in that week. But, um,
00:30:48
Speaker
Like in lieu of flowers, in lieu of flowers, it's like that 50 bucks that you would get spent on flowers to send them to help be able to pay some of these expenses, either a funeral or of debt that someone has left behind. That is huge relief for that family. So that is wonderful that you guys were able to create that for her.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's something I don't think a lot of people realize is that, you know, when, when someone, um, uh, certainly dies unexpectedly and there's not, you know, uh, a large money reserve or something, a lot of people have cars, they have car loans, you know, you have a house, you have a mortgage, you have, um, who knows what other, uh, other expenses going on. Um, medical ones are common these days and. You know, how do those get taken care of? I mean, you're, um,
00:31:48
Speaker
I know one of her family members on her side, they're calling creditors and all the creditors are like, we need a death certificate. It's just very, again, odd business things. You're like, well, how quickly is the body going to get cremated?
00:32:05
Speaker
Um, okay. Why need that desk certificate to like settle these debts? What? You know, just kind of the most, uh, you know, the darkest form of like personal business that you ever really want to have to handle.
00:32:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And when you're so and when it's so fresh and you're having to deal with this of having to call and as you're doing these calls, like having to really live your like having to say that they passed away, that they've died and like really reliving your grief in those moments that are so, you know, cold. They're not going to say I'm sorry for your loss, you know, like they're just like,
00:32:46
Speaker
Well, when can you get that paper here? It's just so cold. That is hard to go through that when you're grieving. Let's shift a little then the direction as we're navigating this conversation.
Brother's Memorial Service
00:33:06
Speaker
And thank you again for sharing those nuances of all that occurred there. So you did decide, I know based on your documentary, his body was cremated. That was the choice you made then as a family.
00:33:22
Speaker
Did you do any type of ceremony or memory memorial around his death? And then from there, we're going to then jump up to your process of grieving after that.
00:33:38
Speaker
But yeah, so we we decided to do a memorial at this church that he had gone to for celebrate recovery, which is, you know, like a faith based. Or it's hosted at churches a lot, but it's like it's almost like an N.A. Alcoholics Anonymous type group, but. Spicy, he'd gone to a lot for that. And yeah, no open casket. We did a.
00:34:05
Speaker
, he got a military and
00:34:26
Speaker
It's almost like a wedding in some ways. Funerals can be the same where if you say like open mic night and just say whoever can come up, say whatever they want, it can kind of go south really quickly.
00:34:40
Speaker
because people ramble or they don't know what they want to say or things like that. So we kept it very straightforward. And I think there are a couple of my guy cousins. So we have this group of guy cousins that we were all close with growing up and then his like best friend from high school. They all spoke, which is really cool to hear their stories. And then I did really the eulogy.
00:35:06
Speaker
And, uh, that, you know, that was like a four or five hour process where, you know, I'm just trying to figure out how to summarize these parts of his life for a pretty broad audience. Right. I mean, people would have known him, you know, they knew him when he was really young to high school, to people, you know, adult adult life. But I did, I did that. It was like a 25 minute eulogy and I used it. I didn't want to sugar coat it. Um,
00:35:35
Speaker
I think in some ways when someone dies, at least like this from addiction, it kind of does a disservice if you don't address that elephant in the room. And my sort of message to everyone in the room was like the tragedy of his death is that it was entirely preventable.
00:35:59
Speaker
And that, you know, it's and that we all sort of make these decisions maybe now, but they can snowball later into something that is deadly. And what is that? I just challenged audience. I'm like, what is that that you have in your life? That your is is a habit that is not going to serve you and could lead to death and is and is a decision that you're making every single day. What is that? I'm you know, I don't know, but
00:36:26
Speaker
And he had quite a few interesting group of people that he was friends with over time, just because of his lifestyle and whatnot. And a couple of them would come up to me and they're just like, I'm having all these friends die left and right.
00:36:46
Speaker
I'm like, well, you know, I haven't talked to you in years, but, you know, I hope that, you know, it's kind of a wake up call. But, you know, also one real quick thing I was going to say about the sort of military service that they did was, so they go and they basically sound off their name and rank.
00:37:11
Speaker
And then they get to him and they call for him, Collins Eller, Staff Sergeant, like multiple times. And of course, he doesn't say anything because he's not there. And that was like the I mean, I mean, I'm here. I'm like kind of conducting this whole memorial and like giving a, you know, long speech. But that happened. I was like, oh, guy, you know, as
00:37:40
Speaker
Because his military identity and his passion for that, I think that was the thing he was really most passionate about in life, proud about that service. That was really tough to hear. I spent a week with my family, came back, and then I think it was maybe eight days later
00:38:11
Speaker
go back down again from the memorial. And then once that has passed, which I think most people probably find to be the case, it's sort of like it feels as though that that should be this end of something, but it's not at all. And I certainly thought that it might be this end. And then you're just blindsided by
00:38:38
Speaker
floods of different emotions all the time. And that's essentially what just kept happening, kept happening, kept happening. So I'm like, well, none of this is done. Of course, ultimately, you know, none of this will ever be, quote, done, but
00:39:02
Speaker
what's gonna help you process these emotions. So that's kind of where I got to.
Year-long Grief Art Project
00:39:10
Speaker
That's so that is when that was the aha like how many months so February 2019 he he died one month that you say OK, I got it. I got to do something and that you decided to do it in this visual art project and we'll go into that and then the research because in your in your which by the way with the listeners when when this does get launched in the spring is correct. It's in the spring of 20. Yeah, you plan on launching him.
00:39:41
Speaker
You do have experts and so forth talking about grief as well and you have information and data about the aspect of grief too. So it's a mixture of your own emotion and your own way of dealing with the grief of your brother as well as intertwined with the science of grief per se, the psychology of grief as well.
00:40:05
Speaker
So yeah, when did you decide, okay, this is how I'm going to do it? You had songwriting, you had kind of left that aside for a while. You were now more in the visual arts. So what made you choose to do that? Yeah, it was about six months later.
00:40:24
Speaker
that I you know I was doing painting in between that but I was doing these like bigger pieces and I did a series of paintings probably about nine paintings that were all kind of like this personal depiction of the aftermath of grief and
00:40:42
Speaker
Uh, but it didn't really feel, it didn't really feel like I was processing the grief as much as I could have just felt like this sort of, you know, well of inspiration, but, uh, I, I noticed a change in myself and of course I go back to work and I, I don't care about any of it. I'm just pretty.
00:41:06
Speaker
I'm pretty cynical at that point about all the just, you know, the politics of people changes and hierarchy, all that kind of stuff jockeying for positions. But yeah, six months later, I
00:41:24
Speaker
I've come up with this project and oddly enough, I visited Sedona, Arizona. I love Sedona. We've gotten two thanksgivings we've gotten already there. We'd love it. Yes, it's really pretty. I'm not really the type that goes and meditates in a vortex. That's not my bag, but we did visit there. Ironically enough, my parents were in Phoenix area at the time.
00:41:51
Speaker
And I, you know, came away from that weekend. And one of the kind of like, yeah, those decisions was to do this year painting and then also make some documentary of it at the time. But I was aware of the hundred day challenge of painting.
00:42:09
Speaker
And I knew for myself, I'm like, I'm a pretty impatient person. So I said, I'm going to make, come up with this project that's going to be helpful, but also where it's going to challenge me in a variety of areas. One of those being that I'm going to really have to commit to this, but I know at the end, like at the end of it, hands down, it's going to have made me grow.
00:42:39
Speaker
And I'm not going to have any other expectations beyond that, I don't think, just that I'm going to do, I'm going to go through it and I'm going to really try to be, you know, present with how I operate through it. So then you started. So then how did you decide then the
00:42:59
Speaker
the fact that it was going to be a daily process and that it would end up being a mosaic at the end. Was that something in the plan or did you just mosaic? Is it mosaic or mosaic? Is the S more like a Z mosaic? Well, I mean, I still mosaic.
00:43:18
Speaker
If you're from like high England, maybe you say mosaic. I don't know. I don't know. But either way, mosaic, I'll just say with the mosaic like or did it just after you had a few of these pieces? Because how big are each of the canvases that you would paint? How big was there eight by eight by 10?
00:43:42
Speaker
eight by 10 each one. So you started painting and what kind of, what kind of product, but let me see, I'm not an artist. I'm like, did you do acrylic? Did you do what, like what kind of materials that you use?
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah, so the answer to the question on the Mosaic, I think when I was originally coming up with the size and I had done some like study pieces on eight by tens before and I just found it to be like a pretty reasonable size, but I sat down like, okay, well, you know, I think when I was figuring out that I was going to do this for a year,
00:44:24
Speaker
OK, well, if I do 365 and they're all this, you know, I was doing all the calculations like, wow. I'm like, this is it's 202 square feet of of paintings. So I'm like, well, you could lay that out in a lot of different ways, right? But I'm I think because of my film background, I'm partial to this like 16 by nine, you know, screen size that we
00:44:50
Speaker
we all kind of were all accustomed to now. So, yeah, I knew that that was kind of the size it would roughly be, but, you know, assembling it and whatnot, I didn't paint them, of course, with any kind of like, oh, I'm painting this thing. The hypothesis for me was that if I'm painting them in an intuitive manner, and they're all
00:45:14
Speaker
They're all coming from me. They're all about a similar subject that they will make something at the end. So it's kind of a reverse puzzle putting that
Symbolic Closure with Final Painting
00:45:22
Speaker
together. But I experimented with a lot of stuff. I mean, so mostly acrylic paint, different kind of, you know, flow, heavy body, medium body using thickeners. I use actually rubbing alcohol a lot.
00:45:40
Speaker
Um, and that does different things with like breaking apart the pigments. Uh, I use an air gun quite a bit as well. Um, I use actually charcoal and I'll grind up charcoal and do different things with that.
00:45:55
Speaker
And then, of course, the last painting had his ashes in it, which was partially what inspired what I'm doing now, which is painting these basically grief paintings for other people using ashes at times. So that's that's partially where I kind of got the idea for that.
00:46:19
Speaker
So I didn't know that that's what you do. I didn't realize you were doing that now for others. But yes, that part where you were doing that piece, because of course I got a preview. I got a preview of the documentary since I'm interviewing you. But that piece where you're painting that canvas and you're talking about like the pupil of the, a little bit right of the, you had to resum something regarding the pupil of the eye and so forth as you're,
00:46:46
Speaker
drawing this how how how did you feel in that moment as you're touching these ashes and this other material that is not paint any that moment you know yes you use paint but it's not charcoal it's your brother's what how were the emotions at that point because this is a whole year later than pretty much this last piece
00:47:12
Speaker
Sorry, a whole year later after he started, so it'd been probably what, a year and a half or so after his passing. So what were the emotions that were coming up and did that shell that you had put on for years before of dealing, did that shell start kind of shedding little by little as you're drawing each painting each of these pieces?
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, well, each I'd say certainly each piece or like, you know, sets of the pieces were there were reflection point actually had in front of my screen at the time in my office, I had like a rolling 30 days of every single painting. So I changed them out every single day and it gave me like this visual progress of what I was doing.
00:47:58
Speaker
You know, there are, I mean, certainly times where I dealt with anger issues, times where I was maybe more depressive, times where I felt like I was more joyful, times, you know, just kind of that roller coaster of emotion.
00:48:11
Speaker
And I could see that in the paintings, at least, you know, when I was looking at them. And, you know, and then the last one that that whole day was kind of bizarre because I was sort of unusually just really exhausted. And so much so, I took off like practically half day from work and
00:48:34
Speaker
just slept and then I, you know, kind of got I think the anticipation of doing the last painting was was probably pretty emotionally overwhelming. And then, yeah, I just happened to I had the ashes. I knew I was going to use them. And, you know, I had never handled ashes before that point. I don't think most of us do right. Even if you get ashes, they're in a box and, you know, you might look at them once.
00:49:01
Speaker
And then otherwise they're sitting in a box. And so I had them in a Mason jar and I opened it up and I'm kind of like sifting through these ashes. Um, and it's very bizarre. I mean, especially when you're considering who it is, um, that you're handling it's, it's literal physical remains of someone that you're like, that is, I had been given other items that he owned from my sister in law.
00:49:28
Speaker
And those were kind of like some of them were kind of special, you know, like a knife or a shirt or something like that. But then you're like, oh, this is this is him. This is who he was. This is the person I grew up with in a jar. It's a very strange thought. And so I'm like, OK, well, how, you know, perfect this is.
00:49:50
Speaker
that I'm putting them sort of back into this image in my mind of how I looked at them because the eyes are always, especially when someone has substance abuse issues, you're always looking at their eyes because that's a dead giveaway. Are they on something?
00:50:13
Speaker
So I put those, you know, kind of back into his eyes, so to speak. And yeah, that be that that was just a really kind of crazy way and that series of paintings. But very poetic in a way, because it gave this idea of, you know. What if I did this for other people and.
00:50:40
Speaker
You know, there there could really be something there as well. So, yeah. Wow. So how did that. OK, so you put the piece together. Then how did you had a showing? Was it family, friends who came to see your mosaic?
Public Reactions to Art Mosaic
00:50:56
Speaker
And it's huge. And that was a huge task in itself, putting that up. And people can see that when they watch the film. But how
00:51:07
Speaker
How how was it received? Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on people's state of mind when they come see something like this. I've had like a utility worker in here or like we redid part of our kitchen. And people just stand back and go, oh, my gosh, people. And the cool thing is people who like
00:51:34
Speaker
They don't speak English like a bad like a like Hispanic or ideas meal ideas. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, basically that. Right. There you go. And he just he just stay like it. It. There's no telling how it's going to impact people. And I've had people over my house a bunch of times who are just friends and, you know, they'll sometimes just stand back and stare at it.
00:52:00
Speaker
because it's a lot to look at it. I mean, because it's it's kind of its own. It's 10 feet by 20 feet. Correct. Now, as it's saying, right? Correct. Yeah. 10 by 20. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's just it's a lot to take in. And there's, of course, this light show component to as well. And we have had some people over who I know have lost somebody and they are
00:52:28
Speaker
like it hits them particularly because they know what it's about. You know, I usually explain to people like, hey, here's what this is. You know, I don't explain it to everyone. Some people have just been like, like, oh, my gosh, people always want to take a picture of it. Like, can I take a picture of like, yes, don't post it anywhere. Keep it on your phone. But I think just sharing it has been really cool with people. I mean, my hope is that it will end up somewhere a lot more public than my house.
00:52:58
Speaker
Um, and, and really be a true exhibit that people can kind of see and experience, but, uh, it, it's, uh, it's unique at the end of the day. And it's just, it's my, uh, of course take on, you know, that like first initial really intense period of grieving, but.
00:53:20
Speaker
when people I think get to understand what it's about and point out small paintings in there that appeal to them and they'll start dissecting little parts of it. It's just really neat. It's fun to share and it sort of so far has really validated that initial hypothesis I had too of just using art as this visual tool to relate to other people in the grief experience.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, normalizing, that's one of your goals now, as well as normalizing this conversation about grief, which is the whole reason behind even this podcast, too, is normalizing this conversation.
00:54:06
Speaker
Take us then into how it is people can contact you and be able to have, first of all, if they did want a commemorative piece done for their loved one, if they wanted to use the ashes, or if there's other ways in which you could do a commemorative piece and other forms that, yeah, like Instagram, we'll put all that information.
00:54:32
Speaker
below, but ways in which you're able to aid someone in their process with your art. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the process in and of itself is and people can have ashes or not have ashes. And it doesn't it's not like a prerequisite. I think the point part of the point of doing these kinds of paintings, right, is, you know, most most people are really relegated to like,
00:55:02
Speaker
a tombstone or or they just have the ashes. So it's kind of one or the other. And what what I do is I essentially go through with somebody and really we dig into like this relationship they had with this person. And it really harkens back to this, you know, this other thesis I have that in order to commemorate the memory loved one of a loved one, you need
00:55:29
Speaker
stories of this loved one, you need a strong emotional connection to this person. And then you have basically a some kind of something to commemorate them by. And so when we go through this process, we kind of pull out all these emotions and the story they have about this person.
Creating Personalized Abstract Art
00:55:50
Speaker
And then we go through a process of looking at, you know, previous paintings that I've done. And they, you know, we we kind of like collaborate on the spot.
00:55:58
Speaker
of what colors remind them of this person. And that's very specific to them because it's their perception of color. But then techniques that I've done, that's the tricky thing about having all these paintings too is there's a lot of different ways that you can kind of express that emotion. And then by the end of that, I have this really, this sort of template for how I'm going to go and kind of approach the canvas. But the whole point is,
00:56:28
Speaker
It's, it's abstract, right? So I'm not, we're not doing, you know, a portrait. We're not doing, you know, the house you grew up in. It's abstract. And what I've found through abstract, right? Is it changes over time. It changes over time for how you feel about it and how you look at it. And to me, that's really emblematic of the grief journey. Um, you're not just trying to have this like still snapshot of who the person was or who you are. You're, you're getting.
00:56:56
Speaker
And that's why we get so much information on the person and their relationship as you get that. And then I'm sort of like the conduit for translating that into a canvas. And then you have that and then you can hang that wherever you want in your house. And I usually go and like, you know, where do you want to hang this? But someone could move or paint, paint around wherever they want. And the beauty of that is you don't have to go visit a gravestone. You don't have to just leave these
00:57:25
Speaker
especially if there's ashes in it, the ashes aren't just sitting there in a box or let's say you're like, oh, I'm going to go spread their ashes in someplace. There's a lot of ashes after someone dies. You can use those in different ways, you know, and this could be one of them. But over time, again, the gist is like you have this pain that you can reflect on and you're going to see in different ways. So
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I mostly do that now. People just, you know, I chat with them through Instagram or Facebook. That's the primary way. And then and then it's just it's becomes a very like one on one conversation. So.
00:58:05
Speaker
It's so it's so beautiful and it's so interesting to see the direction in which a life just goes when something happens like would you have thought two year two and a half years ago that you'd be now no two because you passed away wait three years ago almost three yeah almost three years in February so would you have seen yourself doing
00:58:30
Speaker
this, you know, prior to his passing. You know what I mean? Like it took no at all, right? It's like it took you into a whole other direction of your life and these really pivotal moments. So before we close off, what are some words or something that I might have not asked that you'd still like to share with the audience as we're wrapping up?
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so I spend a lot of time in like different grief groups and like hashtags and whatnot and just talking to different people. And so I've kind of in my mind noticed some things in the grief process as they feel like patterns. And Lindsay said this well in the documentary, right? Because I mean, she's been in this in a clinical mode for over a decade, but I think
00:59:31
Speaker
people that have grief and it's going somewhere and where is it going? In what way are you seeking, not just to process it, but kind of understand yourself better? And that's why I kind of have this message at the end of the documentary, which is turning grief from this negative thing into being this spiritually healing thing of you don't have to feel as though you're
00:59:59
Speaker
um, wallowing in darkness the whole time, because it's like, it's going to live with you as long as you're around. Uh, but that there's something you do that's proactive because I think the more anyone who has grief can be proactive about that grief. That's just an encouragement to the next person who goes, Hey, I can come out of this and be, and be well, you know, I'm the person's gone, but, um, you know,
01:00:27
Speaker
I know it's not as cut and dry, it's not flipping of a switch, but there's a way we live our lives, I think, that can be helpful for others to see that there's hope there, right? Absolutely. You know, when we were going to start the conversation and I said, wait, wait, let me just start recording because there was something I wanted to tell you, but I'm like, I just wanted to say it during the interview. And as you're saying this, I want to reflect on this, is the fact of time, right? That element of time.
01:00:56
Speaker
that yes, it's been only close to three years as we're recording this podcast of his passing yet is what did you do with that time and in your grief and what you said about, you know, the grief therapist in the in the documentary sharing about that. It's really so important is if you take
01:01:20
Speaker
basically some kind of control of your grief, of what you do in your mourning process. Mourning is like things you can do with it and grief just happens. So what are you doing to mourn the death of a loved one? And as you're doing that, it will make time
01:01:41
Speaker
kind of shrink that grief process kind of shrink and consolidate because you're actually in action mode. And that's what you were doing for the past year and a half. You were in action mode doing something with your grief. And therefore, these three years could seem like it had been 10 of processing a grief journey. Yeah. Right. Well, there's this idea, too, that, you know,
01:02:06
Speaker
when you're thinking about, I'm going to learn a new skill, whatever it is, which, you know, kind of, I would think grief kind of falls in that category as well. There's this whole idea that the, you know, we've all run across people who say, Oh, I've been doing this for 20 years, whatever it is. And that in and of itself is kind of a crappy barometer because how many hours of those 20 years?
01:02:34
Speaker
Well, that that and you could it's the quality, it's like the quality of the practice, right? You could do 20 years of the first year of practice and you're still sucking that, you know, going into the second year of learning something. So just the quality of that practice. What is it? And I would.
01:02:51
Speaker
you know, certainly think the same thing about grief, you know, the quality of that time you're spending about grief. And that's the thing about, you know, when you're just letting time pass, and you're just hoping it gets better over time, because that's some silly cliche we have, like, you're not you're, you're in, you know, x number of years of just starting the grief process. So, hopefully, you know, you
01:03:16
Speaker
come to that realization that like, oh gosh, like you said, take control of the grief and in a way that is healthy and suitable for you.
01:03:25
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely, because we know already what can happen as well. We've seen the, and you've experienced it firsthand, what some people can do when they're dealing with grief or trauma in a way that is not conduit to it being healthy, because you had it firsthand with the death of your brother.
01:03:49
Speaker
So yeah, so definitely taking some little control over the things that we have no control over. We have no control over the death of someone, yet we do have a little of aspect of control as to how it is we choose to navigate the expression of our grief in certain parts of our life so that when it does come like a wave tumbling us down, we've already developed some kind of tools as well as to how to navigate it in those moments.
01:04:19
Speaker
Thank you so much, Preston. It's been such a beautiful conversation. We've got some moving parts here. We've moved some aspects of my being relating to the death of a sibling, as you were sharing, and I appreciate you being so vulnerable as well, and sharing your heart with us. Thank you.
01:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Kendra. I know I appreciate the opportunity just to share this. I hope it's helpful for people. Yes, thank you. And again, we were speaking with Preston Zeller, and his documentary, The Art of Grieving will be out in the spring. And you can check out the link to how to get a hold of him. But if you
01:05:10
Speaker
are just listening to this. You can find him on Instagram at Preston Zeller or on his website theartofgrievingfilm.com to find out more. Thank you once again.
01:05:31
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone,
01:05:56
Speaker
who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.