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Amber Bites Big with Jo Stanley, Co-founder and CEO of Broad Radio
111 Plays7 months ago
In Episode 12, Amber Bonney Bites Big with guest co-host Jo Stanley - a super star radio and TV presenter who has grown up telling stories and connecting with Australian audiences on award winning commercial TV and radio show.
Inspired by Amber's own Mantra, "bite big and chew like hell", in this episode we talk about Jo's belief in the power of words, ideas and metaphors and one of her favourite mantras, 'Freedom lies in being bold'. Now as the co-founder and CEO of start up digital radio platform Broad Radio, Jo's talks about her commitment to changing the inequalities of women in radio, disrupting the status quo and helping the most invisible women to be seen and heard.
In this conversation we look back over Jo's eclectic entertainment background, get curious about why radio is her first love and where her true passion lies. Jo shares the journey of writing the 'Play Like a Girl' book series, losing a high profile job and why never wasting a minute is an important part of her gratitude for life. We get under the skin of how the Broad Radio concept came to be after a trip to Berlin left her inspired to create something different. Jo truly is a woman who has bitten big and now chewing like hell!
Bite Big has donated $500 to the chosen charity Fitted For Work a charity helps women, non-binary, and gender-diverse jobseekers to become job-ready, find meaningful employment, and thrive in their working lives.
If you would like to know more about our host Amber Bonney her business The Edison Agency or co-host Jo Stanley you can connect and follow these boss women via their socials links below!
Links:
Jo Stanley LinkedIn
Jo Stanley Instagram
Jo Stanley Facebook
Broad Radio Web
Broad Radio Instagram
Broad Radio Facebook
Play Like a Girl Book Series
Elizabeth Gilbert - Big Magic
Glennon Doyle - Untamed
Fitted For Work
Amber's Instagram
Amber's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's Instagram
Credits
Main Host: Amber Bonney
Producer: Niki Beeston
Post Production : Fran Toscano, 17th Street Audio,
Recommended
Transcript
Acknowledgment of Traditional Owners
00:00:00
Speaker
On behalf of the Bite Big Team, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land we are recording on today, the Boonrung people of the Kulin Nation. We recognise that with over 60,000 years of experience, First Peoples of Australia are most definitely the original storytellers, designers and artists of this country, and we pay our respect to their elders past, present and emerging.
Introduction to Amber Bonney
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, before we get stuck into this episode of White Big, let me tell you a little bit about who the hell I am and why this content's important to me. My name's Amber Bonney, and for the past 25 years, I've been reshaping iconic Australian and international brands, helping them stay relevant, get noticed, and be remembered in the good kind of way. I'm a passionate feminist and committed to advocating for better representation of women in senior creative and marketing roles, which is why this podcast is proudly brought to you by my business, The Edison Agency.
The Edison Agency's Journey
00:01:00
Speaker
Edison turns 13 this year and we have the privilege of working with some of the world's most influential consumer brands in businesses like Nestle, the Bega Group, Sahi, Subaru, Uber, Arnott's and local federal government departments. If your brand or organization needs help aligning your vision to your reputation, then you can find us at www.edison.agency or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Let's get into it.
Meet Jo Stanley
00:01:29
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to season two, episode six of Bite Big, a podcast about boss women leading big brands. I'm your host, Amber Bonney, and today I am co-hosting this episode with an exceptional comic storyteller, none other than Jo Stanley. Welcome, Jo. It is such a joy to be here, Amber. Excellent. Well, most of you would probably have heard of Jo on commercial radio, especially for our Melbourne listeners, or seen her glorious face on TV.
00:01:56
Speaker
But beyond the screens and a bit of the glamour, Jo has a host of skills and acknowledgements. The most interesting of which for us on BiteBig is her foray into business as the co-founder and CEO of Broad Radio, a startup digital radio platform created for women by women.
Jo's Career in Comedy and Radio
00:02:14
Speaker
Congrats on that, Jo. Well, thank you. I'm going to keep going on a little bio. I could have honestly written like three pages of this, so I've tried to keep it succinct.
00:02:25
Speaker
You've done a lot. You've done a lot. You're a performer, a writer, a TV and radio presenter. You started out in comedy doing stand-up in pubs and much later performed at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, which sounds horrifying to me, but a great achievement.
00:02:40
Speaker
You then ventured into radio, you had a stellar 20 year career, which is amazing. Two record breaking number one breakfast shows, one being the most popular, The Matt and Jo Show, which ended in 2013, so 11 years ago. And you received the coveted spot of number one breakfast show in Melbourne with more listeners than any other breakfast show at the time. And I don't know a lot about broadcasting, but I do know it's a pretty difficult thing to achieve.
00:03:06
Speaker
It's brutal, the competition. Even now, I mean, you see the fuss that's going on around Carl and Jackie O coming into the mine. I know, I've heard a lot about that. Yeah, that's an interesting, well, an example of how the fight for number one is intense. It's very real. Yeah, it's really real and it hasn't shifted in, well, God, the 15 years since I was on air, yeah. Exited.
00:03:33
Speaker
You now host the House of Wellness TV on the Seven Network as well as hosting the A to B podcast. You write a regular column for the Sunday Life magazine. You're the creator of an exceptionally groundbreaking book series called Play Like a Girl. I look forward to hearing about that.
00:03:48
Speaker
And between all of this and having a family, you are building broad radio from the ground up. You're also a patron for numerous foundations and an ambassador for Fit of the Work, which is the chosen charity we're going to talk about today. That is a lot of feathers. One of the things I've been most amused by and looking forward to understanding is you quoted yourself as being an introverted show pony, which in all of my research, listening to lots of podcasts you've done, of which there are a lot.
00:04:17
Speaker
that really resonated with me. So I'm looking forward to getting under the skin of that and also your mantra. So let's get stuck into it. Yeah, let's.
The Podcast Theme: Bite Big and Chew Like Hell
00:04:28
Speaker
All right. So the theme of this podcast, Bite Big, comes from my own personal mantra, which is bite big and chew like hell. It did used to be chew like buggery, but I did feel like that was maybe slightly less appropriate.
00:04:40
Speaker
Um, and so True Like Hell, that is a mantra that I have lived with for a very long time. It has gotten me into a lot of trouble, but also helped me overcome a lot and take on lots of really ambitious exercises of which this podcast is one. Where did you get that from? Uh, I don't.
00:04:57
Speaker
No, I think when I was younger, someone described me as a mouse in a Bulldog's costume. And they said, because you're always biting big. And I think maybe because my bark was louder than my bite. So there was always something about a bite. Yeah. And yeah, it just stuck.
00:05:14
Speaker
I think I made a t-shirt in my early 20s with Bite, Beak and Chew like Buggery. And then when we were brainstorming, what could this podcast be? We knew it needed to be focused on gender equity and raising the profile of women in leadership and championing different voices in marketing communications. And we thought, well, what better than Bite, Beak and Chew like how? Which is sort of how women have to operate in this industry.
00:05:38
Speaker
We thought it was appropriate and we liked the sentiment of rather than telling our guests or our co-hosts narrative in a very linear way, it was more interesting to talk about the mantra and how that's influenced. Yeah, I love that you talk about mantras because it's certainly a real passion of mine.
00:05:56
Speaker
The notion that words and ideas can change the world, which I firmly believe, and that the power of words can shift something in you such that you are doing more than you imagine you can do. And I love that bite big and true, like how it implies that you bite first and then just... You worry about it later. Yeah, that's right. You've just got to get in and think about the doing after you've sort of committed to it sometimes. It's the say yes and then worry about it later.
00:06:24
Speaker
Which does get me into trouble sometimes. This year has been my year of trying to say yes less often. I will say I'm not off to a good start this year. I've committed to my husband that the next six months I'm gonna say no more often to lots of things, but
00:06:40
Speaker
Let's get on that's enough about me and my mantra. Let me read out your mantra.
Jo's Mantra: Boldness and Freedom
00:06:45
Speaker
It's pretty easy I know that you had lots of mantras and no doubt they'll come up at some point but yours was freedom lies in being bold So aside from it being by a bloke tell us why that's important to you
00:06:59
Speaker
Well, I honestly can't remember when this came into my life. So it is from Robert Frost, who is a poet. I love poetry. Again, just use of language and imagery and metaphor in ways that just gets me right in the heart and in the fields. Well, you're a storyteller and metaphor is such an important part of storytelling in a way that people can understand.
00:07:22
Speaker
It's actually how I see the world, I realise. Often I'll have a problem that I can't solve, particularly with broad radio, and I'll sit and think and ruminate and ponder for sometimes weeks, and the answer will come to me in the version of a picture, often, or an image, or sometimes it's almost filmic, right? The story will emerge and I'll come to the answer that way.
00:07:45
Speaker
usually at two or three in the morning. In the morning, yes. The old cracking woman over 40 times would be thinking about something. It's always 3am. If you ever want to sleep, don't start a business. So yeah, Robert Frost, I believe he said it in an interview, so it wasn't from one of his poems, but freedom lies in being bold is something that I use as a mantra frequently because time and again
00:08:11
Speaker
It's been proven to me that if you want to shift something, and it doesn't need to be boldness in the term of like, I'm going to blow up my life and sell my house and buy a yacht or whatever, like I'm not talking necessarily of it, or even starting a business. I mean, that does sound fun. Sounds amazing. But you know, it can be big action, but boldness can be something as simple as saying no.
00:08:36
Speaker
You know, I'm gonna say no to something that everyone wants me to do that's expectation Yeah, I think women aren't entitled to be bold often in fact generally in life we live the older we get I think more safe lives and fearful of rocking a boat and
00:08:54
Speaker
And so, yeah, I guess it's something that I would repeat to myself regularly. I'm a naturally fearful person. Like I am, I'm scared of everything. And there's not a moment when I'm not scared, particularly doing broad radio. It's a really terrifying thing. Well, you're really big in starting a business because there's nothing more horrifying than the daily, the daily battle of being an entrepreneur.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, that is horrifying. You risk everything financially, emotionally, physically. And it never stops. It never stops, right? But also, I suppose, for me, it's the very public nature of it. Yes. And if I fail, no one really, no one really cares except for the tight network in my industry. If you fall over, it's going to be in lots of publications. It really will be.
00:09:43
Speaker
In an industry that I love. I don't envy that, I've got to say. Yeah. I mean, it's an industry I love as well. And it's, I mean, radio is my first love and I just am passionate about it. So I want to do that as well as I can.
00:10:00
Speaker
from a gender equality space, I think it's so critical as a lever for change, radio particularly, media in general, and if I get this wrong for women, I'll be really, really sad. Like, I feel a great deal of pressure. Of pressure, yeah.
Challenges in Starting Broad Radio
00:10:17
Speaker
So I'm terrified, but...
00:10:19
Speaker
I remind myself, freedom lies in being bold and there is great freedom in choosing the path that is as bold and courageous and outrageous as you can be because incredible things come from it. Already incredible things have come from it. Like if broad radio, if we end up trying as hard as we can and it doesn't get off the ground, PS, I believe that it will be enormously successful. But let's say it doesn't end up getting off the ground. You had a good crack.
00:10:49
Speaker
And incredible things have happened. Well, we met. We met. We met at a mutual friends book launch unexpectedly. Oh, and you've been kind enough to come on board as an investor for broad radio? Sure, but I like those ventures. I like anyone who's having a go at making a difference, working towards gender equity. Well, to be honest, that is one of the things that your
00:11:13
Speaker
not even aware that you're achieving when you do something bold, right? The ripples of your action is so far beyond your own sphere and your own networks. And I know for a fact, because I've had women say this to me, that just by the fact that I'm having a crack has really instigated in them
00:11:31
Speaker
a reconnection with their heart purpose, a reconnection with the voice in them that has perhaps been there for 10, 20, 30 years saying, I want to do this thing. And they've redirected their connection with that and they're going to give it a crack. I've heard this already. And this would be the case for your podcast. This would be the case for every person that's out there doing something that appears courageous and bold. It has a ripple effect that you don't even know about.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, people listening that you don't understand or even just, as you said, taking that step forward. Last night I was at a, I'm not even going to say networking. It's a, I have a problem with that term, but an event for women. And we, we spoke about the premise of networking and it's definitely something we spoke about to Michelle Redfern when she was on this podcast. And women are fabulous relationship. People are really deep.
00:12:26
Speaker
level, but I think women underestimate the power that they have in leveraging those relationships when they need to. And I imagine that when people saw that you were doing broad radio, and I think I saw something on LinkedIn and socials probably, but I remember thinking, oh my God, like I just can't even not do this. Even if it falls over, I didn't even care. I'm like, we just got to get behind this because this is someone having a go at taking on the patriarchy. And
00:12:55
Speaker
I suppose there will be so many women in your corner that you wouldn't even know are in your corner, even if they didn't have capacity to invest. But using the power of those relationships to be able to make that happen. I can't see that radio station not just going gangbusters. Like women are very committed to each other. And I think when they see women doing something great, it's like, oh my God, we just have to rally behind this and lift you up collectively.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, well that's lovely of you to say and certainly I have felt that from the very moment I started having conversations with people probably four years ago about what broad radio might be, I felt that incredible support and uplift. Broad radio came to me in a meditation and from the very moment it was sort of emerged from
00:13:43
Speaker
The universe gifted to me, because I consider myself really a custodian of it, it doesn't belong to me. And I've been able to see the image of women and the energy of women, this audience as sort of like a golden sort of energy that has kept me afloat at times when it's been extremely difficult. Like it is a fucking slog. Yeah.
00:14:03
Speaker
Turns out it's quite difficult to start a radio network. I hadn't sort of thought that through. So that is exactly true. But the other thing is around creating a media space and a space that is solely devoted to elevating women's voices and non-binary folk. And my intention is for it to be a nexus of all the incredible content creators out there and building a platform in many different ways that brings
00:14:30
Speaker
Those voices together there is no shortage of Incredible content creators out there and no shortage of amazing stories that are not being heard from all the different sorts of Diversity that we don't hear on mainstream media including
00:14:45
Speaker
remote and regional Australia, including... Yeah, the disadvantage that comes from not being... Just geography, right? And of course, it's First Nations and it's culturally, linguistically diverse women, it's women with disabilities, it's women over 45. Invisible women, as they say. Isn't that insane that that is actually...
00:15:04
Speaker
a voice that's missing. So yeah, like there's no shortage of that. And I feel as we grow, what's so exciting is that we're able to provide just a really strong platform. It's incredible. And I can't wait to see it go from strength to strength.
00:15:20
Speaker
Now Emma Murray, we have some clients that work with Emma Murray and I've listened to Emma Murray. She's a high performance mindfulness coach and changed my life. I can't remember which podcast I heard this on but you spoke about and I hope I get this right, ask and let go of how it will come to pass. Is that it? And what resonated about that when I quickly scribbled it down in my notes was my second mantra outside of Bite Big and Chew Like Hell is
00:15:48
Speaker
it too will pass. And I pivot between the two of like biting big and then being terrified. And I have to remind myself, it's just an hour. It's just two hours. It's just half a day. It's just one day, whatever it is that I'm doing, whether it's a presentation or whatever it is, I then will take a deep breath and say it too will pass. Can you just tell me a little bit about that for you?
00:16:11
Speaker
Well, that's from Deepak Chopra, who I'm quite devoted to as far as a meditation guide. And it really was something that I held to very early on. After I left radio, I had finished breakfast radio. I'd been doing Joe and Lima on gold. And we got sacked, which was very reported and kind of a boring story now, because I'm so past it. But it was a pretty difficult time.
00:16:40
Speaker
And just not really knowing, what am I doing? What was that hole I'd spent at that time, 15 years in radio? What was it for? Like, actually, you know, am I so lacking in worth for this industry that I have now been sacked and now have not been offered another job. All the men on that show had gone on to do other radio and no one was... 30 seconds later, yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
And so it was around the fact that in meditation I had been asking for the next thing and ask and let go is about if you believe that the universe provides, which I do, then you have to let go of wondering how that
00:17:27
Speaker
request of the universe will be met. You have to let go of and just believe. So you have to ask and let go of how it should come to pass because the universe will decide. And another one of my mantras from the Dalai Lama, I sound so spiritual right now.
00:17:42
Speaker
But the Dalai Lama says, I don't question the universe. So often we might ask, and the answer is presented to us in a way that we never imagined, and sometimes with great wonder you go, fuck.
00:17:57
Speaker
I never thought that it would be answered that way. But sometimes it's answered in a way you do not want. And you have to just go, oh, well, okay, there's a lesson. Now I understand. Ask for the collection of how it shall come to pass. It will be met, but in a way that the universe knows and needs to be met. Or as my therapist would say, be curious as to why that's come up.
00:18:18
Speaker
My God, curiosity is absolutely my key to everything. Curiosity is the way you can go from uncertainty and the fear and uncertainty where you're like, oh my God, what's going to happen to question mark? Oh my God, what's going to happen?
00:18:33
Speaker
Like, isn't that extraordinary? I don't know what's going to happen. It is terrifying. But in that is limitless possibility and how exciting that is. But the only reason you can get to that is through curiosity. Yeah. I think if you're a creative person, it's it's innate anyway. But it's one of those things that's very easy to squash because it requires, I suppose, time and openness.
00:18:56
Speaker
So if you're ever under pressure, staying open is a difficult mind frame to be in because you want to try and I can't remember who said this, but it was Brené Brown, actually. She was being interviewed for a podcast and she said she knows when she's feeling when she's out of control.
00:19:14
Speaker
when she starts to micro-manage everything because she's lost that kind of openness and the curiosity and she's now trying to micro-control everything within her sphere because everything else is going to the ship basically. Yeah and that comes from fear isn't it because you're shutting down
00:19:32
Speaker
I kind of always... Possibility. Yeah. And I look at it in terms of an abundance or a scarcity mindset. And when you start getting anxious about the outcome or you, you know, self-doubt or whatever comes up for you, that means that you shut down the abundance and all you see is scarcity, then you lose that curiosity and that openness. It's very true. I also feel like there's a... And this happens every month when we're looking at our...
00:19:57
Speaker
performance from a sales perspective is if you go into panic mode because you might not be performing, I do genuinely feel that you kind of put so much negative energy out there that nothing good will penetrate. And I know that sounds a bit tricky, but it's like if you want a healthy level of acknowledgement and recognition when you're looking at your P&L, but if you focus too much on the negative, you actually will not be open or curious to
00:20:26
Speaker
pivoting the solution or even having a conversation with someone that's gonna bring you a new project or bring you some funding because you're very close and you have that energy about you. And that's the ask and let go of how it shall come to pass because you ask it and this does happen, has happened for me with broad radio or I look and I go, holy shit, okay. The next couple of months looking pretty lean. Okay, I'm asking, I'm manifesting new partners, new opportunities. What do we need?
00:20:54
Speaker
what do we need this? But I'm not going to worry about how that will happen because I'm openhearted to the conversations that I'll have and the interactions I have, knowing that somewhere in there, there will be something really miraculous that I didn't really expect to happen. And sure enough, every time it does, usually through conversation.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, conversation. We spoke last night in this Women's Catch Up, which did involve wine, about women do not practice the muscle of asking for what they need. And so in a male-dominated, any male-dominated environment,
00:21:31
Speaker
Men are really great. They're just well-practiced, this sense of privilege that comes from, oh, mate, I need this intro from you. Can you introduce me to the CEO of X? Because I need this introduction for my business. Women will go around and around in circles without actually walking in going, hey, I really would love this intro. Can you back me on that? Or can you?
00:21:51
Speaker
Or when they catch up with someone and say, I'm catching up because I want to pick your brain about these. They go around in circles and then in my experience, or even into my personal experience, I then walk away from those situations going, damn it, I didn't even ask for what I needed because I was too busy
The Art of a Clear Ask
00:22:09
Speaker
trying to be kind and be nice and not get to the point.
00:22:12
Speaker
I think sometimes that comes down to the fact that we are really bad at articulating to ourselves what we need. We are so disconnected with our needs. Most of us have been raised in families where the version of ourselves that actually had needs was squashed. The good, well-behaved
00:22:31
Speaker
well-mannered girl following the rules. That's it. Don't make a fuss. Don't be different. You must conform to the family norms, all of those things. So I, for myself, I feel as though I've spent my last 15 years really understanding what it is that I need as a person and how to actually nurture myself, I guess. But in this instance, when you are, and I say this now, because you know, you have conversations, you have catch up sometimes cold,
00:23:00
Speaker
connections on LinkedIn, people reaching out, hey, can I pick your brains for 30 minutes? Yep, no worries. But often those conversations, particularly with young women, they'll come without it and ask. And so I always say you have to have an ask if you're going to have a meeting with me. That's a great tip. And if they get 15 minutes in and it's all nicety still, I'm like, great, we're both busy. What's your ask? And you need to think before you go in. Otherwise, it is a waste of your time. It's a waste of the person you're meeting with. But it's about
00:23:30
Speaker
Let's be direct in the sense of abundance as well. Let's understand that there is so much that we each can exchange. And I'll go into those conversations as well, even though perhaps it might be someone who is starting out in their career and you could imagine there's sort of like a power balance there, but absolutely not. I'm interested in learning from that person as well. So frequently I'll go in with an ask as well, which might be as simple as, so tell me from your perspective, what's your viewpoint on this?
00:23:57
Speaker
I want to know that because you're a different generation or you're a different perspective. Whatever it is, that's all about intention, right? But I don't think that we're very good at identifying that in our songs. It's practice. Yeah, it's a muscle. It is just a muscle that needs to be practiced. Let's talk about your people and experiences with this sense of freedom and boldness for you. Who were the women in your life who past or present epitomized the sense of boldness?
00:24:27
Speaker
Well, it's an interesting thing because I grew up in a almost entirely female family. The only man in my whole family was my grandpa. My father died when I was very young. And so there was my mum, my nana, so my pa died when I was quite young as well. So my mum, my nana, my grandma, my older sister, my younger sister.
00:24:50
Speaker
It's like the original broad radio crew, just saying. But I don't identify them as bold people.
00:24:58
Speaker
What about your friendship group without naming names? Like are there people that you, or even just, I don't know if you've heard of Cindy Gallop. Yes, I've interviewed her. She's incredible. Why did I not find that in my research? She's one of those people, A, because she just, I love her tagline is just blow shit up. That's just the best thing ever. But she's someone who I would epitomise as being a figure of boldness.
00:25:23
Speaker
So I know people who, women who have courageously decided that they're unhappy in their relationships and that is a really good, that is hard. That is a hard. There's a lot at stake, especially when it involves children, especially. That's a difficult.
00:25:41
Speaker
Incredibly courageous to say, I'm going to choose happiness even though it means a great deal of loss and risk. Eventually I know I'll be happy at the end of this journey. So that's a good call out. Yeah, incredible. I think women who in my life who've chosen to remain childless
00:26:01
Speaker
Yes. That's amazing. Just the obscenity of the criticism that, you know, and we saw that with Julia Gillard as a public figure that she received as being a childless person, whether that's by choice or not by choice, as if a woman is only defined by her fertility is outrageous. It really enrages me because
00:26:26
Speaker
You know, there are women who are mothers who are deeply unhappy and wish they hadn't gone down that path, but society pressure kind of sent them down that path, I think. So, and, you know, women who are childless through circumstance as well, that they were able to navigate that I think is incredible because there's deep pain there. And I suppose, let me think in my career.
00:26:49
Speaker
I mean, I'm surrounded by women who are incredible at their job and their careers. I see them as great inspiration on our advisory board for broad radio. Actually, I have four incredible women who I turn to will frequently think to myself. So Mary Dalahunty, who
00:27:12
Speaker
She's an amazing leader in the superannuation space. Chris Mannix, who is managing director of SOTA Communications, founder and managing director there. Both of those, particularly, are women that I will say to myself, what would Mary do in this instance? Or I'll ring crackers, Chris, and say.
00:27:34
Speaker
How do you navigate this? Because she's so much further down the path as having her own business, has built that and been very successful. So women, and Sarah Tinsley, who is at Culture Amp, she's just incredibly brilliant. And Winitha Bonnie, who is a real leader in the diversity and inclusion space, all women who's brilliant,
00:27:56
Speaker
and life experience I turn to all the time. And generosity by the sounds of things. Incredibly generous. Sharing that knowledge. Yeah. I mean, I think, God, none of us would be here without those people in our lives, would we? No. When have you not felt free from being bold? When has being bold backfired? Probably countless times as a woman. Oh, gosh.
00:28:22
Speaker
Well, you mentioned Comedy Festival. I did actually do something like 10 years of Comedy Festival shows and the couple that I produced myself, I mean, they lose money. I don't know though if I would say I would think anything that I've done has backfired because I really question the notion of failure and how we define it.
00:28:46
Speaker
So there's never been a time that I look at what I've done. I go, well, that was a failure. I shouldn't have done that. There have been times that haven't been. It's all a lesson. Well, yeah, I mean, they weren't necessarily successful at the box office. We might have lost money. Some of the things I've done perhaps got bad reviews or I don't know, I just go, well,
00:29:12
Speaker
It's in the trying that matters. And in- It's the attitude. Yeah. And everything that I've done is about me becoming who I am. So I don't think any of it is a failure. Any of it, even- There's a sense of freedom in itself. Yeah. I guess it's about just looking at who I am now. Probably at the time I would have, but I'm old now and I look back and go, well, I'm pretty bloody happy I did that. Yeah. It's another step forward.
00:29:43
Speaker
Let's talk about Play Like A Girl. Where did that idea come from? I was lucky enough to be commissioned to write those. So I was doing radio at the time and my daughter was, I guess, six-ish, seven, six, something like that. And Bonia, who were the publishers, knew that I love Footy and they wanted to create a series for that sort of age seven to 10 year old reader.
00:30:11
Speaker
about an under 11 girls footy team. Well, I made it under 11, but a girls footy team they wanted. And yeah, they came to me and asked me to write them. And I was so stoked because I do love footy.
00:30:23
Speaker
Was it a really difficult process? Because writing, I mean, writing children's books does seem like a rite of passage in the, if you're a media personality. But also very difficult. I've written about 10 children's books in my head and just, yeah, some just got to the covers and then that was it. But yeah, it feels like potentially a more difficult creative process.
00:30:47
Speaker
Well, these are little, you know, novels. They're not into books. And I guess I learned how to write whilst doing it. Like it was it was a pretty raw process. I wouldn't say that I'm an expert on writing novels. I do plan to write more, but for 10 years from now, probably when I've retired to a cottage.
00:31:07
Speaker
Not that I ever planned for a time, but it was exhilarating though. It was so amazing. I had these incredible editors that I was working with at Bonia. They were incredibly supportive. It was exciting for me to put on the page every little girl that I imagine
00:31:26
Speaker
either myself, versions of myself as a kid or I wanted to be. It was, you know, the books are about footy and about a girl's footy team, but they're also about friendship and leadership and vulnerability and learning how to understand who you are, to take risks and be bold and all those things. And it was just exciting to put it in this beautiful team, the Flyers, they were called,
00:31:52
Speaker
And each book is through the lens of a different protagonist, different character, different girl in the team. And you know, create the coach who's this mad, crazy, you know, really rough woman with blue, spiky hair. You know, like it was exhilarating to be able to create that. So it was hard, but it was, I guess, felt very natural to do that.
00:32:13
Speaker
And what a great achievement though. I'm going to buy them. I've got a daughter who is nine and so it's, yeah, it sounds like the perfect age group. Yeah, they're super fun. I mean, I really do love footy though. But not that you have to love footy. It's, you know, thanks to the AFLW, footy has kind of exploded for girls.
00:32:30
Speaker
All right, TV, let's talk about pivoting a lot of what we talk about on the podcast, especially when connected to the mantra is all around, I suppose, this sense of agility. And if you think about freedom and boldness, being able to move and take risks and you moved from a career starting out in comedy to TV, radio and writing and everything else in between.
Why Broad Radio?
00:32:56
Speaker
What motivated you to make that huge pivot into starting broad radio outside of, I suppose, your frustration with the industry? I was doing radio, I was doing triple M at the time and really love that model in as much as triple M is unapologetic. Unapologetically. Unapologetically.
00:33:20
Speaker
Everyone together. I apologetically for that male audience. And I really love being on Triple M. When it's at its sweet spot, it really connects with an audience that needs a space, a safe space. And I looked around, I'd finished on gold, and I thought, oh, there is no radio. There's no Triple M for chicks. That's rude.
00:33:40
Speaker
I really, I really wish there was because I would listen to it. By the way, radio is still thriving and commercial radio particularly is thriving. It's just the delivery of it is quite different, is moving into this digital streaming space, but that's an aside.
00:33:54
Speaker
And so then I then looked at our audience of 40 plus and you would know better than I in your business that we are, of course, we control 80% of the spending. And I just went, oh my God, this is just an opportunity. And I realized- It's not just a gap in the market. It's like a chasm in the market. A chasm? A chasm? Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
And really, what a great business case, right? It was really just because no one else was doing it. And I had been speaking to Southern Crossroads Stereo and then COVID hit. And you have the platform, right? So to be able to use an existing skill set and platform to be brave and do that is...
00:34:35
Speaker
Yes, which I suppose that's become more apparent to me. At the time it wasn't like, I'm who I am, so I better do it. It was more that I was like, well, no one else is going to do it and I can, so I will. I'm excited by the opportunity. I'm excited about this. As I said, you know, when I meditate, it's just there in me, so I can't get rid of it. I better just bloody do it or otherwise it's going to haunt me for the rest of my life. And then the more I realized
00:35:00
Speaker
But further into it, the more I've realized how it's for me to do. And I really believe that the perfect series of events that Leases to Today was meant to be, and basically every single thing I've done in my life was leading me to be this person doing this thing. So I don't know, I didn't really have a choice in the end. It happened. It dropped as an image. It just came to me. I mean, I was doing, it did, sort of the very kernel of it was that I was in Berlin
00:35:31
Speaker
It's just such an amazingly, ironically, given its history, but amazingly open, curious, bold, dynamic, eclectic place. Yeah. I don't think I would have had the idea if I hadn't gone to Berlin.
00:35:49
Speaker
like 10 days there and was with a very different... Was it like an Eat Pro love type situation? No, like so the series of events was I'd got sacked in the November-December and then in March I had already been booked to go to Austria to speak at a radio conference and it was really hard to go because I was still so sad about being sacked and I knew that there'd be Australian people there. And all the questions too. All of that, yeah, you know, like his skin's crawling at a sort of...
00:36:15
Speaker
you have shame, right? And so you go to this thing and in the end it was actually really fantastic because I just immersed myself in the media and then I was meeting my friend who is an Australian guy living in the UK but he had lived, he had a partner who had been, who lived in Berlin. So I met him in Berlin just to basically party, right?
00:36:34
Speaker
Why wouldn't you? You've just lost your job. It's like the perfect. But because he knows people there and they were marketers and curators and artists and writers, and I just spent this time with people who, as you say in Berlin, you have an idea and you just do it.
00:36:50
Speaker
And no one questions it. And it's hugely successful because the audience are up for it and the community is large and the funding is large. And they also culturally don't have this tall poppy vibe that Australia has. It's just like there's no shame in having a go. And I know that in Australia, you know, there's this it's a have a go place, but actually it's not a have a go place. And especially like it's it's a have a go probably if you're a white man.
00:37:18
Speaker
in to have a go place. But it's, there's a lot of people, especially in the public eye, it's just like tear people down as quick as you possibly can. Absolutely. So, but there, there's just this incredible spirit of possibility and creativity. And I loved it. I was just, I felt like I was alive the whole time. Did you just come back so re-energised? Everywhere I went, people said, why don't you start your own radio station?
00:37:43
Speaker
Like it happened like 24 times. And I was, I kept saying, why do people keep saying that? That's madness. No one can stop their own radio station. You're crazy.
00:37:53
Speaker
And then I came back and it sort of had planted the seed. And then lockdown started, right? And when lockdown started and streaming exploded and the technology suddenly became apparent to me, of course they can. And it doesn't need to be the version of radio that we're going to be. We're starting with a completely blank slate. Make it how you want it to make it. But yeah, I guess it sort of started in Berlin because they were the first people that said, why don't you start your own?
00:38:16
Speaker
What was the process of the naming? Was it like you just, it's that, or did you go through a process of... Well, I had another name which was Big Radio because it's such a big idea and I want women to live big lives. So it was Big Radio. But then there was another product called Big Radio, I think, in Queensland. And so I wanted to do broad radio, but I was like, bit unsure about broad radio, I don't know. And then I was doing a podcast with George McEnroe, who, you know, good old radio broads the two of us.
00:38:45
Speaker
And she said, I've got an idea. She called it broad radio. I've got, oh my God, I literally wrote that down last night. I said, well, it better be broad. There you go. It's, it's cemented it now. It's done. And it starts with a B. So it's sort of like, it's sort of like bold. Yeah. In terms of broad radio, it's, it is focused on amplifying those voices. How you started off
00:39:06
Speaker
thinking broad radio was gonna be four years ago when that seed planted to where you are now, has that changed? Or you feel like you're only micro through that vision? Like, did you start the process thinking that broad radio was gonna be something and then now that you're in it, you feel like that's pivoted?
00:39:25
Speaker
Uh, it hasn't pivoted yet, but I'm very open to it pivoting. Yeah. Yes. Um, so again, I, I have in my mind and look, I'm not suggesting we should, I'm about to quote someone who a lot of people really have an issue. He's quite abhorrent, but, um, it's Elon Musk.
00:39:48
Speaker
But I read a thing where he talks about how you should have a vision for your business that is like so far ahead that in your mind that already exists, right? And you work backwards.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah, so in my mind, I can see where broad radio is, you know, up and running and is a totally fully functioning radio network. And I know how that will be. I can't even explain it to you now because it will take too long and be quite boring because it's all kind of hypothetical, right? So I see it, but I'm also open to us launching. So to explain, it's live radio delivered by an app that we have built because it's internet radio.
00:40:26
Speaker
So the intention is to launch the app this year and our first live programming. There'll be podcasts as well. But all of that sort of happening this year. There is a chance six to 12 months into that we go, oh, that's interesting.
Adapting Broad Radio to Change
00:40:40
Speaker
We've had great learnings.
00:40:42
Speaker
This is working. This is not I'm open to that because you'd be stupid not to write but I was gonna follow where the funding goes, right? So depending on what like if you're getting commercial partners and commercial partners are looking for
00:40:57
Speaker
I don't know, trends come and go. Yeah, and exactly, that's a whole sort of exploration that we're only just beginning. We're having great conversations with commercial partners, but it's really understanding what value do we bring to them, and that might be something I haven't even thought of yet.
00:41:13
Speaker
And I really also believe, and I've just finished reading for the second time, Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic. Oh, it's so good. Oh, it's so good. And she talks about ideas. You know, it's about creativity. And specifically, she uses writing, of course, as her sort of case study all the way through because she is a writer. She talks about how ideas sort of come to you.
00:41:38
Speaker
And she has this beautiful, I won't spoil it, but she has this beautiful way of looking at ideas. And I think that that's how I believe ideas have to build on themselves, like building blocks. And I can't have an idea that is intended to have arrived to me in a year's time now.
00:41:54
Speaker
I have to have that 12 month of growth to get to it. And for me, with broad radio, it will grow and build as it needs to and as the universe needs it to, and it will follow its own path. And at some point it might go, this is not the way it needs to evolve now.
00:42:10
Speaker
And my job is to be attuned to that and to be attuned to the audience and learn those lessons as it's unfolding for me. And that's the role, I suppose, the pressure that comes with the CEO role is when you're setting the benchmark for that vision planning and then working backwards.
00:42:27
Speaker
I mean, it's a different thing for me because you're like in comparison to yourself and other people who are listening to this podcast who are way, way down the path with their business. For me, I'm so at the start where it's all strategy and dreaming in a lot of ways. But that is, in my experience, the most important part of
00:42:45
Speaker
being a founder who's still actively involved in the business is that you have to define the dream so that everyone else knows as you start to grow as a business but you know for you and your partners and your in your communications in your seeking your funding they just want the confidence in the dream and then you know you can work backwards from there and I don't know if you've ever been through the process of it is a bit morbid of writing your own eulogy so
00:43:13
Speaker
I think about this all the time. I get a lot of people, I don't know, a lot of the self-help books I read suggest it. I've always thought about my role. I've always been quite existential even as a child and I've always thought about the, you know, you're only on this planet for such a short period. The reason that resonated with me is the sentiment of
00:43:36
Speaker
capturing the things you want to be remembered for, the impact you want to have, or just the fun you wanted to have, actually thinking about that with intention and then going, okay, now I'm just going to plan backwards, or I'm going to schedule backwards. Of course, you're never going to schedule all of that stuff in because it kind of kills the joy. But understanding the intent, I personally found quite a useful exercise. And in some ways, I suppose what Elon was saying is
00:44:02
Speaker
sort of similar to that is that you project out pretty far and then use that as a guide or a roadmap to going backwards. Yeah well I mean the example that I was given for Elon Musk which is sort of I love the thinking behind it the practicality of it is
00:44:18
Speaker
probably not great, but it was at a conference for entrepreneurs. And they told this story about how Elon had been working or, you know, his dream is to build some crazy fuck off fast train from one city to another in America. I'm always really bad in the detail. I mean, just one from Melbourne to the airport would be helpful, but he could do that. But this is like this crazy, super, super, super fast train. That's his vision for, let's say 20 years from now, 10 years from now, whatever.
00:44:44
Speaker
And someone who was there at the conference was some kind of scientist. So this guy said to him, you know, you realise that a train travelling at this pace, whatever the speed was, people will die because the G force is just too much. And Elon's response is, that's not a reason not to try.
00:45:05
Speaker
Because his attitude is we will solve that problem by the time we get around to actually making this training. Stop finding the barriers. That's right. We'll find a solution to all those barriers, but let's not stop thinking about and dreaming about this end goal because of whatever barriers are. Now, that's a pretty bad barrier that people will die.
00:45:25
Speaker
But I love that
Learning from Elon Musk
00:45:27
Speaker
sort of as a way of... But it's the sentiment of there's always a reason not to do something. Yeah. There's a million reasons not to do something. That's it. That is a nice segue into something that you said. I believe it was with the business coach on the Tea with the Queen podcast where you said you don't want to waste a minute.
00:45:46
Speaker
And I suppose I wanted to ask you about that sentiment because you mentioned that you love the idea, I suppose, of every year still being alive, the gratitude that comes from that, which resonated with me because I've been always one of those people that I never complain about being another year old. You know, everyone moped around. I turned 49 this year, which I think is actually
00:46:10
Speaker
an exceptional privilege and every, you know, lap around the sun is filled with gratitude. And so when I heard that, I'm like, that's really, that's interesting. Is that something you've always thought about? No, it's just later in life. When you talk about writing your eulogy and sort of living with intention and
00:46:30
Speaker
I wish I had done that exercise when I was 18 or 20 of the things I wanted to achieve in my life and the ways I wanted to live and set myself, you know, those goals because there are lots of things I didn't do. Like I didn't live overseas. I wish I had done that. I didn't go backpacking. I wish I'd had a gap here. All those things I didn't do because I didn't intentionally
00:46:56
Speaker
Set myself goals. I didn't think about what is it that would bring me joy? I just sort of went automatically from school to uni to work didn't think intentionally about how best to make use of the days and the minutes that we have but I think
00:47:14
Speaker
I think maybe it came to me in my forties. I just realized how incredibly precious life is. Is it something that generally comes to you when you're a new middle age? I think it is.
00:47:28
Speaker
Well, they say youth is wasted on the young. I suppose, yeah, I just went through a stage of realizing that I think I did waste a lot of minutes. I wasted a lot of opportunity, even when I was on Breakfast Radio, which was the greatest gift and the best 10 years of my life doing the Matt and Jo Show. Huge opportunity, which I did. I think I made use of it, but I could have done more, most definitely with that 10 years.
00:47:54
Speaker
because I was too busy, I don't know, just being caught up with my own anxiety and my own sense of, I don't know, not imposter syndrome. It was just not, not enough-ness, you know? It's a very common female experience, isn't it? The not enough-ness. It's so common. And I read ahead to your last question. Oh, yeah.
00:48:22
Speaker
And it was a book I would wish my younger self had read, which I brought in, actually. Love a show and tell. Glennon Doyle's Untamed. Have not read that, so I'm going to add that to my... Oh, God, it's the greatest.
00:48:37
Speaker
But it is that notion that we spend so much telling ourselves that we're not enough because we are tamed as young girls by society and our families and media and everything that, you know, shrinks us. And I would go back and change that, absolutely, if I could, because I do think I wasted a lot, many, many, many, many, many minutes with that.
00:49:01
Speaker
We were talking last night about this sentiment of women and their intrusive thoughts, whether they're repetitive or whether they're singular, and lots of years of experience and expensive therapy has taught me, and what I was describing to them is the sentiment of the recognition, so seeing it, validating it, but not giving it oxygen.
00:49:24
Speaker
And you have to validate the feeling or the thought or the negativity, but you can't feed it. And that's the difference. It's kind of like the seeing it, but not feeding it. And I was trying to explain that to my nine-year-old in a way, I was talking about feeding it lollies, like you just can't, you can see it, but you can't feed it lollies because she's right at that age of, yeah, filled with self-doubt, which really breaks my heart to see someone so full of,
00:49:52
Speaker
potential with all of this doubt that yeah just seems to be innate. Oh it's it's heartbreaking because you think you know we're of a generation of parents where we know the upbringing we had and we say okay it stops here and we're not I'm not going to revisit that on my own child
00:50:13
Speaker
So my daughter's a satellite, she's been raised in a family that is deeply loved, cherished, full of belief, but also encouraging risk-taking. And she is a kid who will have a crack. But yeah, that negative self-talk is there. Seems to be innate.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, is it, I mean, you know, there is an, Emma Murray, you mentioned her to plug another podcast. I did a podcast with her called Best of You and the House of Wellness. And it was the most transformative thing I've done to spend.
00:50:50
Speaker
seven or eight episodes with her, speaking about mindfulness and learning things like the reason, I mean, we have the negative self-talk, it's partly self-protection. It is partly harking back to our primitive mind. Yeah, absolutely. As a way of, you know, protecting us from the bear, right? Don't go chasing the bear because the bear will kill you, essentially. So it is partly that. I feel like there's a few boyfriends I could have, where that would have been helpful.
00:51:21
Speaker
Why was my Pygmalion brain not triggering then? Well, see, I believe that you were there learning and becoming. That's what untamed you. Well, it made me fight for you. So that's probably a good thing. Right. That's right. But as far as our kids are concerned, aside from the Pygmalion brain, it's society, isn't it?
00:51:40
Speaker
I mean, even if they're not, God, I did not have social media when I was a teenager. Even if our kids aren't on social media, their friends are or they see it on TV or that, you know, it's on bloody kids, YouTube ads that are subversively injected into cartoons.
00:51:55
Speaker
or they have to watch his gossip girl or whatever it is, it's everywhere. You would have to keep our kids in a dark room, which is not the way to raise children. All you can do is arm them with that and give them an analytical mind so that they can think about what they're being bombarded with and hopefully find some kindness in themselves, but it's hard.
00:52:16
Speaker
Well, we've covered a lot of ground here, covered a lot of ground. Yeah, our time is up. Thank you for coming in and for just being, yeah, so generous and gracious with your time and we love your getting under the skin of your mantra, freedom lies in being bold. I'll give you one more, which I did get from Emma Murray, which is the basis for all mantras, right?
00:52:41
Speaker
A belief is a thought you've had often enough. That's why we need mantras and affirmations, because to reference what we were saying about with our kids, you know, the negative self-talk, we think them often enough that we believe it, right? So you have to replace it with good things. Yeah, you've got to replace it. I really love that. I also love the what's your ask. I'm going to borrow that. The sentiment of
00:53:03
Speaker
women being very clear on their ask and whether that's in business or whether that's in personal life and certainly in business and yeah I think if we were talking to Marichelle Redfern she would definitely say be very clear in business about what your ask is so thank you for gifting us that.
00:53:19
Speaker
And as an aside, if you want to know what your ask is, sometimes you have to, I mean, this is why I think that I'm a passionate meditator, but you have to just take yourself away from the demands of your job and your career and all your environments and just give yourself space on your own to let the need arise in you. Yeah, without too much clutter. That's why my sister, who's a counsellor, always says, try for me, especially because I don't really turn off a lot.
00:53:45
Speaker
try to walk and exercise without listening to something. Because you are continually filling your brain with content, which I'm guilty of. Don't even put the music on, just listen to the birds, your feet, the crackle, all of that. Because that's when those little beautiful gems drop. Your sister is very wise. She is very wise, shout out to you Jade.
00:54:08
Speaker
All right, well, just before we wrap up, so this podcast has a very similar tagline to you. It is produced and made by women for women. And to show our gratitude for Bite Big, we donate $500 on your behalf to a chosen charity, and we are so lucky to be aligned in our charities. Fitted for Work is your choice, and that is a charity that we support at Edison also.
00:54:31
Speaker
Bitter for Work, if you haven't heard of it, helps women, non-binary and gender diverse job seekers to become job ready, find really great meaningful employment and thrive in their working lives. And it's an awesome organisation. Tell us a little bit about how you came across Bitter for Work. I mean, this is the great thing about how women work, I think. We are great connectors, I think.
00:54:55
Speaker
So, someone who had, I mean, I don't even remember how I meet people, but never, I don't know. Somewhere, some soiree, somewhere, yeah. So, I met Donna de Swart and Fitit, who is the managing director of Fitit for Work and Fitit for Work via another incredible woman who I will say is bold and fierce.
00:55:15
Speaker
Anne Byrne, who works for Chief Executive Women. She runs their leadership programs. Shout out to you, Anne. Oh, Anne is incredible. So she connected with me, fitted for work, connected to me. Look, I don't even know, but I really just have always been quite passionate about all the different ways that we can arm women to feel freedom, I suppose, and obviously
00:55:38
Speaker
Financial freedom is really key to that. And yeah, it's not that easy for women to return to work or to find work or to feel like they are in a position where they can go for job interviews or they can be skilled in that space. So fit for work do incredible things, not just around job ready. Initially, it was always sort of that wardrobe space.
00:56:00
Speaker
But then it's about mentoring and job reading. Now it's about, yeah, mentoring, upskilling. It's CVs and interview skills and all those sorts of things, but they have a really fantastic social enterprise as well for the work. Incredible. Yeah, which is just inspiring and Donna is a great leader and one of those organizations that punches way above their weight.
00:56:21
Speaker
Love them. Love supporting them. Well, that's it, folks. Thank you so much for coming in. It's been awesome. I'm your host, Amber Boddy. And until next episode, please fight big and cheer like hell. Bye.