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Amber Bites Big with Dr Suji Sanjeevan - medically trained clinical researcher, co-founder of Light & Glo and BrandScent image

Amber Bites Big with Dr Suji Sanjeevan - medically trained clinical researcher, co-founder of Light & Glo and BrandScent

S2 E3 · Bite BIG - Boss Women Leading Big Brands
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122 Plays8 months ago

TRIGGER WARNING

This episode contains depictions of self-harm and suicide that you may find disturbing. If you want to avoid this content, please skip forward to 10.17 sec. If you are experiencing a personal crisis there is a 24hour crisis support and suicide prevention service through Lifeline Australian on
13 11 14.

In Episode 9, Amber Bonney Bites Big with co-host Suji Sanjeevan an exceptional Australian business owner whose intellect, tenacity and resilience has seen her graduate with a medical degree from Kings College London, shape medical policy and research governance in Australia and co-found two successful businesses & appeared on Shark Tank!

Inspired by Amber's own Mantra, "bite big and chew like hell", in this episode we get real and raw about what it was like for Suji growing up in London with family pressures to study medicine, experiencing failure for the first time and her career "rebirth". With exceptional humility, Suji shares how her experience of the all-too-familiar 'glass ceiling'  - how being a migrant, a woman and a mother was inhibiting her career options and the actions she took to break that class and become her own "boss woman".

Amber gets under the skin of Suji's mantra, "It's not successful people who are thankful, it is thankful people who are successful", and how being thankful show's up for her in a practical way everyday. Suji speaks from the heart and with gratitude about her success, reflecting on how  her failures have helped her achieve all that she is today, including her experience with Channel 10's Shark Tank Australia, the lead-up to her appearance & how she has used it to further benefit her business.

Bite Big has donated $500 to the chosen charity Bridging Lanka a charity that is bridging the ethnic, religious and geographic divides for peace and prosperity in Sri Lanka.

If you would like to know more about our host Amber Bonney her business The Edison Agency or co-host Suji Sanjeevan you can connect and follow these boss women via their socials links below!

Links:
Suji Sanjeevan LinkedIn
Light & Glo
Brandscent
Shark Tank Australia Episode with Brandscent

Brene Brown TED Talk
James Clear - Atomic Habits

The Edison Agency's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's Instagram
Amber's Instagram
Amber's LinkedIn

Bridging Lanka
If you need crisis support, contact Lifeline

Credits
Host: Amber Bonney
Producer: Niki Beeston
Sound Edit: Fran Toscano, 17th Street Audio

Recommended
Transcript

Acknowledgment of Traditional Landowners

00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Boomerang Country and we wish to acknowledge them as traditional owners. We recognise First Peoples of Australia as the original storytellers of this country and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.

Content Warning and Support Resources

00:00:17
Speaker
Hello listeners, this episode of Bite Big with Dr. Suji Sanjivan was really beautifully honest, vulnerable, and at times quite raw. It's important to let you know that in this episode, it does contain depictions of self-harm and suicide, and you might find that disturbing. If you want to avoid this content, please skip forward the first nine minutes and we will put the exact times into the show notes.
00:00:39
Speaker
If you are experiencing a personal crisis, there is a 24-hour crisis support and suicide prevention service through Lifeline Australia and you can call them on 13 11 14. Let's get into the episode.

Introduction of Amber Bonney and Her Work

00:01:03
Speaker
Hello, before we get stuck into this episode of Bite Big, let me tell you a little bit about who the hell I am and why this content's important to me. My name's Amber Bonney, and for the past 25 years, I've been reshaping iconic Australian and international brands, helping them stay relevant, get noticed, and be remembered in the good kind of way. I'm a passionate feminist and committed to advocating for better representation of women in senior creative and marketing roles, which is why this podcast is proudly brought to you by my business, The Edison Agency.
00:01:33
Speaker
Edison turns 13 this year and we have the privilege of working with some of the world's most influential consumer brands in businesses like Nestle, the Bega Group, Sahi, Subaru, Buber, Arnott's and local federal government departments. If your brand or organization needs help aligning your vision to your reputation, then you can find us at www.edison.agency or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Let's get into it.

Co-host Dr. Suji Sanjeevan's Journey and Philosophy

00:02:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Season 2, Episode 3 of Bite Big, a podcast about boss women leading big brands. I'm your host, Amber Bonney, and today I'm really looking forward to co-hosting this episode with Dr. Suji Sanjeevan, who's the director and co-founder
00:02:17
Speaker
of two businesses, Light & Glow and Brandcent. Welcome, Suji. Thank you, Amber, for having me. You're welcome. Suji, you've been on quite the journey. Let us start at the very beginning. You're a graduate from King's College in London with a medical degree. And since then, you've stepped into policy and research governance roles, working with Murdoch Children's Research Institute, Melbourne University and Breast Cancer Network Australia.
00:02:42
Speaker
From there, you've applied your medical knowledge to creating Light & Glow, which is a product-based business specialising in therapeutic scents with products like candles, room sprays and diffusers. I look forward to hearing a little bit more about that. You then co-founded what some people might be familiar with, a business called Brandcent, a specialist marketing business that creates signature scents for brands such as Amex.
00:03:04
Speaker
Shandon and Arnett, just to name a few. You've won a stack of awards for both businesses and more recently in 2023 you appeared on Shark Tank. In between all that, as if that wasn't enough, you've participated in local and state community initiatives, you're a mentor for business growth programs and a board member of the Victorian Government Multicultural Ministerial Council.
00:03:25
Speaker
That is, it's quite the rap sheet you've got there. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this. So let's kick off and get under the skin of your personal mantra. Thank you. So the premise of this podcast was really inspired by my mantra, bite, big and chew like hell.
00:03:41
Speaker
how that has served me well and sometimes not so well in my career. If you don't mind, I'll read out your mantra for Alice's. It's not successful people who are thankful, it is thankful people who are successful. So let's talk about that. How did this come about for you?
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I think whether it be business or in personally, I think we need to be grateful for any of the opportunities that come our way, good or bad. And with that mantra, flipping it, it's really about humility. And often when you're working with people, either clients or customers,
00:04:19
Speaker
If you have a sense of humility around you and you are grateful for that opportunity that lies before you, people buy into it, people understand you and there's a sense of empathy and that might just be a bit of a cornerstone when it comes to just having come from that medical career, empathy is so important.
00:04:38
Speaker
And I've drawn on that in terms of the business with Lightning Glow and Branson, just remaining humble and remaining thankful and maintaining those connections that I have with customers and clients.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's beautiful. Is this something that has been with you for a long time? You know, if we think about the premise of a mantra in the repetition is what I suppose allows that to become a natural behavior for people. Is this something that you believe is inherent in you or is this something coming into your adulthood? And as you mentioned, you know, potentially with your medical training that has come about post that.
00:05:14
Speaker
I think always innately, I've been thankful. But I think where the problem was prior to in the last few years, I've certainly reveled in that thankfulness is that it's been fleeting. So I find myself thankful at that point in time. And then if something doesn't go your way, you get kind of frustrated, your emotions start to play.
00:05:34
Speaker
But I've learned to control those emotions in more recent time. And I think that's due to personal growth that allows me to dwell in that thankfulness, dwell on that humility, which really kind of cements the way that I tackle things and tackle problems as they come to me. I think it's a learned mantra as opposed to something that's been with me throughout. But innately, I think I believe I am definitely a thankful person for everything that's come my way.
00:06:01
Speaker
So one of the first things I was going to ask was, does it come easy to you? And you just sort of mentioned that it is something you have had to be somewhat disciplined about. Do you link this sense of thankfulness to your success? And I, you know, perceived success because success is different for everybody. Is this something inherent to how you would define success?
00:06:24
Speaker
Exactly. And like you mentioned, success is defined differently for everyone. There's a different measure when it comes to success and how you see it. But being thankful, I think is extremely important, has allowed me to see the pathway very much more clearly and has allowed me to say, for example, as you mentioned, some of the things that we've won, the partners that we've worked with, if I wasn't thankful for those, if I didn't allow
00:06:48
Speaker
me to be thankful I wouldn't choose to create those meaningful connections with them to be able to and I know I'd sign it off with whether it be my staff my customers or clients it's a thank you I appreciate what's happened here that's how I start my emails that's how I end my emails and people appreciate that you know when you get that note or a pattern you're back as you're kind of going through even if it's in the schoolyard or if it's at university or at in the workplace where someone comes in well done
00:07:12
Speaker
It kind of feels good. That acknowledgement. Exactly. Well, the valid, you know, the validation, because it doesn't always, I suppose there are going to be times where you're not thankful where, you know, you're something shitty has happened. But the acknowledgement I think is also part of that or the validation that you're experiencing that. But even the experiences, it's a bad experience and a lot of shit's happened throughout.
00:07:35
Speaker
my life. I'm thankful for those because those have allowed and has led me to sitting here talking to you has led me to the accomplishments that we've had. If I hadn't failed in those parts of my life, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. So it's helped give you clarity? Yeah.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you think, is this something that you talk about because you do so much, I suppose, advocacy for women in business and people in business and mentoring? Is this something that you talk to people about or is it something quite personal?
00:08:08
Speaker
It's something that I've learned to speak about more so, and I think that comes from, I've listened to this TED Talk by Renee Brown, where she talks about leaning into your vulnerability. I've not been someone who- Is that my first TED Talk? Yes, it's right back in 2015, where I didn't, I've never been vulnerable. I felt that that's a sign of weakness, at least that's how I've been raised to be, not to show your vulnerability and rolling back to 2000, sorry. Wow, that's 20 years ago.
00:08:36
Speaker
When I was at university. Let's not do that. Yeah. And I went to med school. I entered a year early. First year was difficult. Second year, I screwed up. How did you enter a year early? So I entered into secondary school. I jumped a year and got in. And so for me at home, it was medicine, medicine. There was nothing else. And it was push, push, push, study. I had no social life. Literally my social life was my books.
00:09:01
Speaker
And so I worked, I was a hard worker. I wasn't intelligent, but I was a damn hard worker. And I got in, but what I realised when I was at university was this newfound freedom was new to me and I struggled and I failed. I failed that year. I failed the retake and they said, your time's up. That's it.
00:09:23
Speaker
And I remember taking that train home and going, shit, what am I going to say to my parents? There's an 18 year old sitting on a train where failure hadn't never entered my life prior to this, or it hadn't been allowed.
00:09:37
Speaker
there was no way out. So I suppose at that moment, that must have felt almost catastrophic for you. If you, yeah, if you've potentially come from a domestic environment where failure and, you know, falling down and getting back up wasn't necessarily something you'd practice, then that train trip just must have been horrendous. It was, it was, and I walked into my room and I attempt to take my life because I saw no way out. I'm so sorry to do that.
00:10:07
Speaker
It was a really hard few days, but getting help was something that was frowned upon. So even talking or reaching out. The journey was lonely, but I remember a few weeks after that I walked into King's College London because I left that university, I was at Queen Mary's at the time, and Professor Halliday and he will remain with me forever and he said to me, get yourself up, dust yourself off.
00:10:31
Speaker
and let's see what we can do. So then I did a bachelor's and I went, you know what, I'm going to go give this medicine a crack and I'm going to finish it. Not for me, because at that point I realised that medicine wasn't for me, but I was your career path. Exactly. And I'd finished it and came out. And that's where I realised that
00:10:49
Speaker
There was this vulnerability that I had suddenly exercised with Professor Halday that, you know what, I can actually lean into this. I can learn from it and it's going to allow me to push forward. And that's when I started to read books and allow myself to grow personally. There was a huge amount. I grow myself academically. Personally, I was just in it. And I had a person. Yes.
00:11:13
Speaker
I really appreciate you sharing that story because one of the premises of this podcast and using the mantra as a I suppose as a stage for discussion is that we can get under the skin of the traditional I suppose LinkedIn glory list of people and often you know people I'm sure would identify with
00:11:34
Speaker
not necessarily the same story, but struggles and feel like when they see people in the media or they see people on socials, everything looks beautiful and successful and they think, I can't identify with that. So understanding that people have had their significant struggles like that, I think is going to be immensely helpful for our listeners and hopefully they'll pass it on to potentially people who are struggling to say, look, if people like Suji can do it, then yeah.
00:11:59
Speaker
even talking about it and I haven't spoken about it many a times to be honest. I'm heading 41 now and I've probably spoken about a handful of times but I feel that I can now because I've grown personally that much that I feel that if my story can impact someone then there's that ripple effect that's going to happen.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's really beautiful and I'm grateful that you feel like this is a safe space. It is a good segue into talking about pivoting and agility, given that you did start your career in one spot and, you know, have changed a few times, not just once. That takes a lot of guts, tenacity. I'm really interested in understanding from that learning point, what were the decisions behind those significant hops in your career?
00:12:47
Speaker
Sure. As I mentioned, so I finished med school and I remember telling my parents, I'm not going to work. I'm not going to do the foundational years. I'm not going to do that training to register myself. And they kind of looked at me kind of bewildered and went, are you serious? And that's around the time I met Jeeva.

Founding Light & Glow and Brandcent

00:13:03
Speaker
So Jeeva was already in Sydney. We were your, I guess, modern day arranged marriage.
00:13:07
Speaker
So Gibi is your husband's partner in life. Yes. And he's also a doctor. So he was in Sydney, but I was at RCH. We met, we clicked instantly. And for the first time, I think he gave me validation that I was enough. And that was a real game changer for me personally. And I left that pressure cooker environment growing up in London and moved to Melbourne and
00:13:32
Speaker
What do I do? I've got this degree. I've got to work. I want to work. And I went to RCH and I started working at Murdoch Children's Research Institute in terms of research, policy and development, roll on a few years, and I had my son. At which point you're a migrant, you're female, and now you're a mother.
00:13:51
Speaker
things that don't really sit well with having a job. And suddenly my inflexibility of not working after hours or weekends was just not good enough. I was hitting this glass ceiling when it came to promotions and things like that. And I thought something's got to change. And I imagine probably just not enough flexibility to hold a senior role and be able to work more autonomous hours or work in a shared parental responsibility where you and your husband had a level of flexibility. And for many people,
00:14:21
Speaker
Both partners don't have flexibility, you know for at the ambulance or if you are a medical you can't work flexible hours It's not possible. So often it will become the responsibility of one one parent who does have flexibility Yeah, and that's it and his career as he was exactly was as you were saying was mad hours and so I thought
00:14:43
Speaker
something has to change here firstly for my own personal fulfillment but also for that flexibility around my family of three at the time and was growing and so candles wasn't and fragrance wasn't something and to be honest business wasn't something that was on the radar at all no one in my family my grandparents were but were in business and I hadn't thought about it but I loved the idea of psychology and science and putting that into systems so
00:15:10
Speaker
I dabbled in it. When you say dabbled, did you literally start making things at home? Pretty much. Yeah. During lockdown, I think I got a few candledicks and was exploring, putting whatever I could find, Chanel number five, some Lavender essence, whatever I could find into it. It was almost like a little bit of a science experiment at home. I was pregnant with my second son at this point in time, but I love design.
00:15:34
Speaker
I love colour art and so I was playing with that also online and trying to, I realised there was something here, a creativity that was never tapped into or was shut down when I was much younger because it was you either choose art or chemistry, there was no choice. And I imagine you know for many families ignoring any
00:15:54
Speaker
I suppose, cultural norms moving into arts. It's typically frowned upon from anyone. I mean, even just studying design was enough of a push for a lot of families. So yeah, I imagine that that wouldn't have been an option. No, not at all. It wasn't even there was no point in discussing it. But suddenly I had this freedom that I could do what I wanted for the first time. So and that's really where light and glow started to come. And I was 36 weeks pregnant.
00:16:21
Speaker
set up a business name and started making candles. So I initially started with friends and then grew locally. And then Jupy was like, you're enjoying this stuff, the design aspect, the science and scent aspect. And he said, look, I'll help you with, he's got the gift of the gap. I hate selling. I don't do sales.
00:16:40
Speaker
And we thought, let's push this as far as it can. I was on my turn to live for six months. I actually enrolled into a Juris Doctor course, and that's another complete different story, but to further my own policy career. But I thought, you know what? I'll do this. I'm going to give it 100 percent. And that's exactly what I did. And the brand started to evolve and snowball in such a saturated market. It started to leave a bit of a mark.
00:17:06
Speaker
And was this online? Were you predominantly selling online? That's right. Online and also events and markets start to humble in those. So we were going to local markets and doing, and it was just more for, I think, for Jeeva to get away from the pressure of work. This was his outlet. And for me, it was my outlet. I had a newborn and I had a four year old. But what it was, we put passion into it and we put 110 percent effort into it and it started to really grow.
00:17:33
Speaker
And we were fortunate enough to learn opportunities. You know, fast forward a few years, it was starting to grow, moved into a warehouse, won a couple of business awards at that time because I thought, you know what, I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and I'm going to sit there and I'm going to list my achievements. I'm going to be proud of them. And we won. And I was lucky enough to get a call from Amex Shop Small campaign, which I thought was a hoax at the beginning. And they said, we want to showcase your business. And I was like, incredible. Wow. OK.
00:18:02
Speaker
So, but what we did there was I could have easily taken that opportunity and gone, wow, I've been showcased, that's the end off. But we melt, we kind of created meaningful connections with everyone from the makeup crew to the film crew, everyone there and all of them.
00:18:21
Speaker
and we maintained relationships thereafter. And that was in 2019, and even now we're still in contact with them, and they give us opportunities here and there that really do amplify our voice and authority within the industry. And coming back to what you were talking about in being thankful, that's how that shows up in practical, everyday ways. Yeah, having that sense of gratitude, showing people that you see them, no matter what their roles are, because often in business,
00:18:51
Speaker
You know, people talk about opportunity, but often it can be, you know, you're just treading on whatever you can tread on to get up that chain versus let's show gratitude for everyone that we're in connection with. And I can see that, how that shows up for you.
00:19:06
Speaker
climb up and you forget how you got there and that's why this mantra plays back in my head again and again because you need to be thankful and it's always another thing that we always put forward is ethics before profits so and it's been extremely important.
00:19:23
Speaker
And then Brandcent came about a few years ago where we were like, okay, this is a saturated market. We feel we need to niche down. We need to do something different. Is that kind of going, how do we push forward? Was that an exercise of discussing over the dinner table? Was it a round table workshop? How did the idea generation of pivoting from one business to another come about?
00:19:46
Speaker
Sure, it was, Jeeva and I, the team, we sit there and we're like, how do we, how are we different? We can create something and we can sit there and it's always this, how do we better ourselves? So, and that's really where brand sent came in. How do we do things differently? How does now light and glow become something else?
00:20:06
Speaker
And we realized that we needed to create its own identity. And that's where we had this brand name, Brandcent almost become a separate business. It's still connected and intertwined. And we've all been into hotels and retail spaces where the smell instantly gets you. And we thought.
00:20:23
Speaker
combined with our science knowledge, combined with that psychology, we can really create something different out there. And that's where Brandcent came about. And we're not ones to, as you said, sit down and kind of go, we've done a little bit, we push and we keep pushing and we love it. It drives us, that passion really drives us.

Challenges and Biases in Business as a Woman

00:20:41
Speaker
Sometimes it gets to a point at 11 o'clock at night, we're talking business, I might really do it, let's just stop. That's me in my relationship.
00:20:49
Speaker
My husband's like, yeah, it's five in the morning. Can we not talk about this? For those listeners who aren't familiar and given I work in the brand space, what's so powerfully clever about this is we understand of all the senses,
00:21:05
Speaker
our sense of smell retains the longest memory and so brands and you know I've written about this in the past brands that have captured scent as part of their I suppose asset mix or brand codes it becomes such a powerful tool it's why when you know people
00:21:24
Speaker
smell a hairspray or a fragrance, it takes them back to that moment or a shampoo or a flower, whatever that is, it triggers in people's memory. It holds the longest endurance really of any of any sensory. That's 100 percent right. So exceptionally clever proposition.
00:21:41
Speaker
Because in your brain, where it's processed, it's emotions, memory, and scent. When they're processed in the same area, it's a powerful tool. And we realized that we took what was a product-based business, which is light and glow, into that service space. So now we're targeting both service and product and with this sort of something that's really untapped at the moment and really pushed forward. The only thing was we started it just before or just as COVID hit. So when you're targeting event spaces and larger spaces, it was almost like,
00:22:11
Speaker
Crap, what do we do? Did that give you an opportunity, I suppose, to do any more R&D? What did you do during that heinous period that we don't like to reflect upon? 100%. That's exactly what we did. R&D, we were working with nursing homes.
00:22:26
Speaker
So using that power of sense to alleviate the problems they were having. So of course in nursing homes, it's that they're not taking their medication, they're not eating well. How do we use science and sense to increase satiety? How do we increase to change moods? And that's what we've been doing and we're still doing, working on a lot of R&D through that. But also we maneuvered such that we created almost merchandise. So people were handing out gifts and things like that. So we use
00:22:53
Speaker
Brands who had already started to create their sense. We worked with them to create merchandising. So really amplifying our manufacturing process. So we played between the two businesses to ensure we're surviving. And that's really when we did the, we worked with Arnott's to create a Tim Tam sense and also the client of ours too. So we, yeah, we.
00:23:14
Speaker
knew all about that coming and it's been so successful for them and recently even in the Taylor Swift mania when she came out, Arnett's were giving away Tay Tay packs and in those packs were the candles. They're really, oh wow, so they're really on top of when it comes to Arnett's and a lot of brands have really started to tap into how can they do things differently.
00:23:36
Speaker
And so we're working with them almost like an extended marketing team in that sense space to create ideas on how they can utilize it and also experiential marketing. Yeah. As covid started to come away, we also tapped into interstate Victoria, obviously was struggling.
00:23:52
Speaker
and that was a hard slog. But other states were starting to come in. So we worked with agents in different states to ensure that we would survive that time. And so when we came out, we came out all guns blazing and had everything in place to make sure that we took off.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's incredible. And, you know, for people like Jenny Dill at Arnett's and her team, using a product like yours to have more cultural impact. So you move from, you know, the biscuit jar to having one of the most iconic biscuits, you know, sent when someone comes in. That is really transforming, I suppose, a whole experience for people that traditionally product branding have not been able to do. Yes, exactly right.
00:24:36
Speaker
If you're not doing it, people, there's definitely going to be lots of links in this show notes. I want to understand a little bit about the obstacles that you've faced because I know, you know, one of the premises of this podcast is about amplifying different voices from different backgrounds. And it would be fair to say that as a mother, as an immigrant, as a woman, as a person of colour, there's a lot of biases and, you know, a lot of minority groups that you would have been experiencing pressure from.
00:25:05
Speaker
Tell us a bit about those obstacles, especially in Australia and how that's helped or inspired your personal journey. I think within business itself, I realised that the glass ceiling that I was experiencing externally in my corporate career
00:25:22
Speaker
needn't be there. It's almost self-imposed sometimes. So I was like, you know, I'm going to break those barriers down. And through, I guess, a human centered leadership, and that's how I like to lead my team, my organisation, I started to realise that I needed to lean into my weaknesses and put those on a plate for people to see, for my team to see as I was going back to that mantra. But
00:25:48
Speaker
That also opened up, I guess, opportunities for others to abuse. So as a female, we're sometimes emotionally charged. So that's led me into hot water at times. But also as a female, sometimes you're undermined. So when people come by, they often say, oh, can I speak to the director when they're speaking to me? Almost as if, and you kind of go,
00:26:12
Speaker
And you kind of deal with a lot of male chauvinism in that manufacturing industry. And it's really hard to break those down. And I hope in a few generations, they'll start to dissipate and disappear. So those are many of the things that I've had to face. I've always had to find my voice, something that I never had before. I've had to, I guess, get rid of filters that I often had.
00:26:37
Speaker
And sometimes I like to see myself, well, I don't like to see myself, I'm called ruthless, but I'd like to see myself as compassionately ruthless. I've had to become a bit of a shell. Radical panda. If anyone has not read that book, I'll put it into the show notes. So for me, it's really...
00:26:53
Speaker
Those are the things that I've really struggled with. It's more personal growth, allowing myself to understand that I am worthy of this position. I am worthy of what we've achieved. And it is teamwork. It is not just myself. It's my husband, my team, everyone around me. They're on that journey together. But in terms of, I guess,
00:27:11
Speaker
It's a fan that's happened many, many times throughout business. Cashflow is one of those things that have been hard. Covid, I mean, who on earth expected that? So many things where I've made mistakes is I haven't listened to my gut feeling where I said, that doesn't feel right. Don't do this. You've tried to rationalize it. Is that 100 percent? And I've gone, you know what, I placed my trust in people that I probably shouldn't have and should have exercised more caution. So making sure that all the
00:27:41
Speaker
you know, boxes are ticked, terms and conditions signed, contracts are in place before I commit myself as a manufacturer because we've lost everything during COVID about $40,000 on sanitizer based on someone saying, hey, I've got this contract for you without going and only to realize a few weeks later when the Chinese market opened, flooded and you're sat with
00:28:04
Speaker
high-quality produce that's made in Australia that's been shunned. And so many things like that where we've kind of gone, I should have been more, I guess, diligent for a better word.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yes, I've made mistakes. And like I said, each of those failures have led me to where I am now because I am more meticulous in the way that I run it and the way that I see it. But I still maintain that humility and humbleness for my clients and customers because at the end of the day, that human-centered approach is appreciated. I don't want to change the way that I am as a result of these next few experiences.
00:28:45
Speaker
But as long as those experiences teach you something, you can learn from it. It's a win at the end of the day. There's always a lot of robust discussion around minority groups of any kind feeling like they are responsible for having to change everyone else's mind. And the obvious one, we hear this for women all the time.
00:29:06
Speaker
when there's any kind of attack on a woman, it's, was she walking out at late? Why was she wearing this? Why was she as if changing the person's behavior is what's required? And if we think about your example in manufacturing, for example,
00:29:23
Speaker
there aren't that many women in manufacturing, even working in customer service or anything like that. So it's such a weight or a burden to know that, you know, you feel responsible for having to change the behaviours or you have to change how you communicate in order to get attention. You might need to change what you're wearing. You might be perfectly comfortable catching up with Arnett's and Sneakers and, you know,
00:29:49
Speaker
a blazer, but if you go into manufacturing, you might feel like you need to wear a suit to be taken seriously. These are all sort of microaggressions that women and lots of other minority groups experience and it's exceptionally frustrating. I read an article recently from Mia Friedman around, there was a discussion on one of her, I think it was her, wasn't her No Filter podcast, one of her other podcasts where she talked about
00:30:15
Speaker
Women often rereading their emails and taking out all of the apologetic language, which I absolutely agree to do. But then there was a lot of discussion around taking out language to make it seem more masculine and not adding in any emotion. And so taking out emojis, taking out these, taking out that. And it sort of makes you question whether women
00:30:37
Speaker
feel like they have to adhere to the masculine perception of what being in business. There's no reason you can't be an exceptionally successful person. And Taylor Swift, perfect example of that. You do your craft and you do it well. If you want to use an emoji, you can still make millions of dollars and communicate all in emojis if you choose to.
00:30:58
Speaker
Um, we shouldn't need to feel like we have to filter a temper, what we say. 100%. I think in this day and age, and hopefully it's changing that we feel we have to conform. And I've always felt that the need to conform, like growing up in the eighties in London, being a minority in color, it was really difficult. And I felt I had to assimilate, like I speak Tamil, but I don't speak it well because my parents thought, no, you need to speak English well. Um, otherwise you're not going to fit in.
00:31:26
Speaker
So now with things changing, I unfortunately made the same mistake when I came to Australia. I did that with my children because I felt Australia was almost like 1980s England. And once again, I had to fit in. It probably was. And I had to make my children ensure that they fit in. So I had to let go of cultural aspects. A sense of identity is filtered out.
00:31:48
Speaker
And what I realized in the last few years and business certainly in the last eight years has been so much more personal growth than I've ever had before that. I realized that I needed to have the seat at the table to make those changes. And if I have a seat as a color, you know, woman of color, minority, female,
00:32:07
Speaker
that I bring others along with me. And that's why I really, I throw myself into that social purpose. Yes, we've got a commercial business, but it has a huge part for me personally, there's a social aspect to it. And that's why I mentor, because I want to bring people with me, not just, you know, people of color, I'm talking about everyone, an inclusive aspect to business and life.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. And we know that regardless of motivations, it just makes even commercial sense to have diversity of representation. The episode that was recorded recently on the podcast with Lisa Cox, she talked about something like 20% of Australians identify having a disability, yet the representation across media in advertising and in social media and in outdoor communications is a micron of that. And you sort of just question why businesses or brand owners or
00:32:59
Speaker
you know, any organisation would choose to ignore such a large statistic. One in five. I mean, that's incredible volume. So what I did want to say to you is that the world of business is often filled with a high rate of nepotism. So people in business have, you know, multi generations of people in business to model
00:33:21
Speaker
taking risks to fund it and as a self-started person, I identify with your mistakes in a sense that when you are self-funding and you are learning and you've had no one teach you about the profit and loss statement, no one teach you about contracts, about when to have legal review something or when not to, hats off to you for going on that journey with no modeling because that's an incredible achievement.
00:33:48
Speaker
It's been a hard slog, and exactly what you said. I had no idea when someone said to me, P&L, and I was like, what the hell's a P&L? I'd sit there and Google, and I was like, oh crap, I've been spending all my money. Then you start to realize, actually, hold on, I need to build solid foundation. And for me, it has been that education basis throughout constantly and consistently learning. I don't need to be a master at all of these. But as long as I can hold people who are responsible within my team accountable, that's enough to get me through.
00:34:14
Speaker
But we are constantly learning in life, whether it's business or personally. And like you said, in terms of going back to that diversity kind of aspect, like with the gender pay gap that's just come out, you kind of look at those figures that have been made public and you realize,
00:34:29
Speaker
There's a lot of fluff out there that we sit there. But when you really nail down, take away the layers, unfortunately, that biases are still there, whether it be gender diversity, all the biases, unfortunately, are still smoldering underneath. And we've got a lot of work ahead of us when it comes to that. But small businesses and like yourself, self-funded startup businesses are really changing that narrative.
00:34:52
Speaker
because we've got inside knowledge of how we've grown from absolutely nothing to where we are. We've got that power and we are powerful enough to make that movement. Yeah and we also understand in the premise of your of brand sense specifically around user experience and improving people's life through whether that's having a sense that's making them feel calmer or whether that's just having a positive experience when people come over. When it's your own business
00:35:20
Speaker
the drive and motivation and you know thankfulness is at a level that's unprecedented and so big business can learn so much from independent businesses and that's one of the things in the portfolio of clients we have we work with you know big blue chip ASX listed clients and we also work with startups and independents and I believe the mix and fusion of both actually keeps you with a sense of humility but also
00:35:49
Speaker
Everyone looks up to the big businesses, but the little businesses actually have more to teach, I believe, the big businesses. And when you've had to hustle at a market, you've had one-on-one feedback from people face-to-face where they say, you know, I don't like this product or it's too expensive, like how you manage and deal with that, it's very different to, you know, a team of
00:36:09
Speaker
30 salespeople all the way leading back up to marketing. So I think what you and your business and other people like you have to offer, the business community is immense. Yeah, there's definitely connection between people and businesses. We have that direct connection as directors with our consumers that often the larger businesses you said don't have.
00:36:30
Speaker
Let's talk about the premise of being a brand boss. This is an intentionally, I suppose, a contentious term that gets lots of debate. When we were naming the podcast and talking about being boss women, there was a lot of discussion around
00:36:46
Speaker
the word boss and how loaded that is about even having to explain boss women. Well, can't you just be a boss? You know, there's a whole lot of discussion around that, but we liked the idea of having clarity about what this podcast was actually about, but also just taking a sense of, I suppose, tongue in cheek ownership back of the word boss. What does it mean for you and does it resonate or is it jarring?
00:37:10
Speaker
For me personally, I think just, I probably still got a bit more growth for me to find this, to resonate with me as the term boss. I mean, I've got this lovely team member who introduces me at times, this is my boss. And I kind of go, oh, you cringe, you're just a bit, don't you? It's a very awkward.
00:37:26
Speaker
term knowledge and like whereas I see myself I think more as a leader but I've seen some boss ladies out there and you're one of the member I think you have this aura around you that really brings people in and you're driving change and I think if you're embracing that term boss lady boss
00:37:43
Speaker
For people, I think it's, it's an incredible term for me personally, I don't resonate with it, but I do believe I resonate with the aspects of what creates a boss lady. You know, it's empowering, you're inspiring others. So yeah, I do love when people are referred, I see, and I, when others in business are referred to as a boss lady and I'm like, damn, right. She is funny. The word boss on itself makes me cringe, but when someone says boss woman, I'm like, hell yes.
00:38:09
Speaker
There's something about the two of those that has completely different baggage attached to it. You'll see other women as boss women and boss ladies. I think to see yourself as one often sometimes is where that struggle is and that's where I am. But I see myself as a fierce leader, I am, and I learned to lead myself in the way that I am proud of what I've done.
00:38:31
Speaker
As a result, I lead my team organization, now a community around me with that same determination grid. And so I think aspects of what creates a boss lady I certainly resonate with.
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah, and it is a community, isn't it, in business? It's all of the supply chain, everyone that's in your ecosystem, people that are extending you credit to people that are coming in and keeping your environment clean and hygienic. It is a total ecosystem of people.
00:39:02
Speaker
If you're a complete asshole as the business person, it's going to fall over at some point. Talking about being a boss woman, I know that listeners will want to hear a little bit about your Shark Tank experience because, you know, for many, A, the thought of being on Shark Tank horrifies me.

Suji on Shark Tank Experience

00:39:19
Speaker
So I'm in awe of the bravery it takes to, um, I do not like being filmed on camera and
00:39:27
Speaker
it is still difficult to pitch yourself in that very raw environment. So let's talk a little bit about that experience for you. So I think it came from even back down to 2017, as I was saying, when I was entering those awards, it was just that kind of going, hey, I'm going to make sure I'm going to pitch myself. I'm going to see what that feedback is. And I've kind of adhered to that throughout when it comes to applying with awards. And last year, March, retail has been shipped.
00:39:54
Speaker
It's been shipped and it keeps going downhill. It's been hard because we work with a lot of wholesalers. The cost of manufacturing. What proportion of your business would be retail versus? So if I'm just talking about light and gold, it's around 70 to 80%. So a lot. And then our manufacturing costs have gone up, but I haven't passed, you know, I haven't passed much of it onto our wholesaler. So our net profit has been dwindling.
00:40:17
Speaker
So, Cam March, I was like, something's got to change, something's got to keep here, what am I going to do? And I remember seeing this post come up, Shark Tank, and I was like, let's see, well, light and glow, that's not going to cut it, that's not really innovation. Branson, on the other hand, is. So, I thought, you know what, I'll throw my hat in the ring.
00:40:34
Speaker
I wrote this pitch and I sent it off. That is a bite big move just right there. Yeah. And I thought, what's the worst they can say? No. Well, they don't reply, that is. And then they came back to me and said, hey, this is interesting. We'd love to interview you. So we did a bit of a zoom. And they said, all right, can you come to Sydney in two weeks to film?
00:40:51
Speaker
So Jiva was actually traveling up the coast to see a lot of our clients, meaning that connection community. He traveled from Melbourne right up to Port Douglas, away for six weeks. And I said, Jiva, you've got to come back. And he said, what for? And I said, we're filming in Sydney next week. Why would I come back for six weeks traveling up north? And so.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah, went in and I thought, I'm going to pitch for my life. I'm going to do... For me, it was more publicity, if I really ought to put it frankly. If I walked away with an offer, great. If I don't, what's the worst that can happen? It's exposure opportunity. 100%. And as we were going into the tank,
00:41:28
Speaker
I'm an introvert, Jiva's an extrovert. Unfortunately, we filmed on Tuesday. On Sunday, Jiva's mum had passed. Oh, goodness. So I said to him, it's up to you. We can pull out. We can do it. And he goes, no, let's go. But we walked in and the producer just before we walked in, he said to me, A, if you're shipped during filming, B, if you don't get an offer, you're unlikely to be aired.
00:41:52
Speaker
I went, seriously, you're telling me this now? Way to pump up my confidence prior to recording. And so I was like, Oh my God. So you walk into this music, you're staring at these sharks and this music is going for about 30 to 40 seconds. And they're just staring at you while the music's just running because you can't talk until the music. I was like, Oh my God. It feels me to dread just thinking about it. I started.
00:42:17
Speaker
And 20 seconds in my pitch, my head goes, oh, this is going great. And then I was like, shit, what was I saying? And so I closed my eyes and turned around. Turned around. I saw all these cameras in black. And then that was it. It just set me off. And you'll watch it. You go back to YouTube and watch the video. You'll see me stumble again and again. At this point, Juba goes, stop. Calm down. You got this. Yeah.
00:42:40
Speaker
That has been with me since the day I married. He's always had my back. And that has allowed me to get to where I was. And I went, you know what? I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this for you. Take a minute. Yeah. And I think we nailed the pitch. Yes. We've got three offers and we went with one. Working with him as a mentor, we've retained 100% of the business. So for me, that works. How did you negotiate that? That is the solid skills.
00:43:08
Speaker
He's, yeah, a lot of going back and forth, he was watching Financials, and because Light & Glow and brands are quite intertwined, he said, you know what, I'll happily kind of advise you here and there, we still maintain contact. And it's been brilliant since that exposure in itself has given the brand authority. And what was the pivot post Shark Tank in terms of attraction to brands like Chandon and, you know, what was the journey post recording?
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah, as soon as that aired, so we filmed in May, so it aired in October. That's been like on our every marketing material as seen on Shark Tank. But what it did was it created that authority when three well-known business people want to invest in brands and they want to invest in us. And that's exactly what they said. These brands
00:43:59
Speaker
like Shandon who we're working with now and they love and we love working with them and there are many more in the pipeline. It gives us this clarity and authority when it comes to business and for them they know they're in safe hands. They can trust that we will deliver and that's exactly what we do.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah, and I suppose at some point when you were standing there, it told you the risk that if nobody put an offer in, you would not be putting on any of your collateral as seen on Shark Tank because you would be hoping that most people forgot that you were on it. Yeah, no, that was something I think that played on my emotions and in my head again, I said,
00:44:35
Speaker
What happens if we screw up? We're the business that people go, oh my God, they laugh at as opposed to praise. And that really did. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to take the risk. I trust myself. I trust Jeeva. And I trust the process and the business. So how they edit the, I guess the video in the end is not in my hands. I can't control it. So what can I do?
00:44:58
Speaker
Um, but it was an hour and a half of filming that went down into 15 minutes. And they showed me fumble over and again, but I guess that's a human aspect. So, um, I cringed at it, but others kind of praise it. So, but for me, it was definitely a risk, uh, putting yourself out there for public opinion, public judgment.
00:45:18
Speaker
the ultimate public judgment. You just don't get much more public than mainstream TV. Everything else can be curated or you know the audience is just not that big. But when you go as mainstream as that, it's quite a different experience. It certainly was.
00:45:36
Speaker
I think throughout the last eight years, I've learnt to take judgement less seriously. And that's really aided in it. I think if you'd asked me to do this five years ago, there is no way I'm putting myself up there for potential public humiliation. But now I'm like, you know what, if it did go that way, I'll work out a way to spin it. So there's a will, there's a way. Incredible experience.

Personal Achievements and Motivations

00:46:02
Speaker
What are you most proud of?
00:46:05
Speaker
For me, so Dylan is my second son and that's when light and glow all started. And I went to his parent-teacher interview at the end of last year. And one of the things, their inquiries that they had done was what they'd like to be when they were older. And he'd put on there, I want to be a manufacturer.
00:46:23
Speaker
But what it showed me was my children were proud of my achievements. Then I heard my father speak at an event recently. My parents are now proud of my achievements. My husband is. So to be able to have this network around me that feel proud of me, proud of Suji, that is a huge achievement for me more than anything else. I think that I have been
00:46:46
Speaker
always self-critical in the way that I think that imposter syndrome often gets in, and it does for many of us. But to be able to sit back and think the people that are most important to me in my life are proud of what I've done, that's huge. That's everything. Yeah. Yeah. And not everyone gets to that point of, I suppose, quiet reflection that people are proud because often in business, especially in what I've experienced with other
00:47:16
Speaker
People that have started from nothing and built something is there's always this sense of looking forward and not taking, and I am 100% guilty of this, not taking the time to be present in the day and say, oh wow, that's really...
00:47:35
Speaker
That's really great. I recently had a similar experience. So, Edison, my agency turns 13 this year. Thank you. I've decided that this will be the year for us where we just rebel and potentially tell people we don't want to work with them anymore. But we were working through updating our credentials and moving to a new website and
00:48:00
Speaker
going through 13 years of work and curating, I suppose, our top 20 across different industries. And it was really the first little quiet moment in 13 years where I've gone, actually, that is a powerhouse portfolio of work. And I remember when I started business,
00:48:19
Speaker
I didn't put a website up for multiple years because I didn't have enough work. I didn't have enough proof points. And as you mentioned before with Shark Tank, that just became a lever point to win your business. But when you're building yourself, having enough, I suppose, credentials to say, I've done this for this person and therefore you can trust me, that's really difficult. And so that was, yeah, that was that quiet, I suppose, pride moment for me in going,
00:48:46
Speaker
Actually, yeah, that is a really good... Amazing, yeah. As you said, people can trust you and that's, yeah, a real moment of pride. So that really resonates with me. Thank you for sharing. All right, B moment. This is a question we ask all of our guests, white, big, there's two Bs, that's nothing more intelligent than where that's come from.
00:49:04
Speaker
Is there a moment that starts with B that stands out for you? It does, actually. As I said, I've never been in business or had any sort of business training before entering, um, Langlois and Branson. But I remember working with our very first coach and there was this term that he would say, there's always a current view of the situation, which you're in right now, but then there's the better version of the situation. CVS to BVS.
00:49:28
Speaker
And so for me, better, that word better, you need to be a better person. I don't need to be a good person, but I need to be a better version of myself. I need to have a better day from if I've had a shit day today. It needs to be better. So for me, that word better always comes back to me. How do I better myself? How do I better the situation? And how do I better the version of my business that is today? And that's really where Brandcent came about. It is bettering the current version.
00:49:56
Speaker
and that's my B word and has always been. It's just incredible. My other mantra if it wasn't bite big and chew like hell would be something like never rest on your laurels and someone in business once said to me it's a slippery slope to hubris and really the sentiment is that if you get too cocky that's where you can go downhill and you know and you would experience this that
00:50:20
Speaker
A big error can be catastrophic for a business, whether it's a recall of a product in manufacturing, no matter what they use. When that happens, you need that sense of community. You need all the good stuff that you have done to carry you through those negative times. And so, yeah, that essence of
00:50:40
Speaker
I suppose being better and always moving forward, I'd imagine that that would resonate with lots of people who run independent businesses. You can't really stop and I suppose you do want to stop and smell the roses, but at the same time you need to be continually innovating. That's right, yes. It's really important that we do that. So, better? Yeah.
00:51:02
Speaker
The next question I have for you is, I wish I'd read. Is there something that you wish when you were younger, so whether it was that university self, pre, it could be a teen self, or when you just launched one of your businesses, is there something that you wish you could have seen or read or heard that may have made a difference?
00:51:23
Speaker
And I think this takes me back to that Renee Brown TED Talk. I really wish I'd listened to that when I was or whether if it was around when I was much younger, just allowing yourself to be vulnerable, empathize also with myself. And I've always been someone who's always been extremely hard on myself and I still am to sometimes and I have to kind of stop myself from doing it.
00:51:47
Speaker
self-critical. But I wish that TED Talk itself, and I think if you haven't heard it, definitely go and listen to that one. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. I mean, what Brené Brown has done has actually completely transformed the landscape of
00:52:02
Speaker
language that we use in business. She has democratised having a humanness into what has been typically a very mechanical exchange of commerce. And she has
00:52:19
Speaker
very openly and now because she has so much authority in this area, the word vulnerable never existed in business. No one mentioned that word before Brene Brown ever. So, you know, what a massive contribution to Earth she has had with, and I won't dismiss it by saying it's simple because she's a highly intelligent professional woman, but it's amazing the impact of groundswell that something like that can have for people.
00:52:46
Speaker
Gone are the days of that authoritarian form of leadership, and it's that servant leadership. And that's what I leaned into when leading my team is servant leadership, having those emotions, company culture, building that into it. And everything that she says and does, and there's a podcast that she suggested with the Simon Sinek, which was incredible to have. Oh, the two of them. Yes. They're quite funny together, aren't they? Yes.
00:53:07
Speaker
Just that sense of belonging, and she's really taught me something in my personal growth when it comes to her. When it comes to business growth, for me, the book by James Clear, Atomic Habits, Small Changes, because procrastination is my best friend. I will sit there and think about something for hours.
00:53:28
Speaker
before actually doing it. And it wasn't until I picked up this book and read it and went small changes. Just often the big changes are so overwhelming that you kind of go break it down. It's too hard. But if I can break it down into these small little habits and consistently change them, you start to evolve. Excellent. Well, for any of our listeners who have not read that, I highly recommend it.
00:53:51
Speaker
Well, that's the end of our session today. I want to say thank you Suji for just being what I define and Alison's would find as a boss woman for showing us your version of biting big and aspiring to your mantra. It's not successful people who are thankful. It is thankful people who are successful.
00:54:10
Speaker
I especially loved, I suppose when you talk about the sense of humility, the being grateful for the opportunity and hearing how that has filtered throughout your career is a really beautiful thing. I also thought it was inspiring when you talked about how light and glow
00:54:27
Speaker
gave you this sense of freedom and flexibility and for many women who are juggling career limitations, having the bravery to step out and do something new that actually served you and your family in a different way I think is really inspiring. You spoke about, you know, breaking the glass ceiling and breaking down those barriers and I think
00:54:48
Speaker
As a platform, all of the mentoring and advocacy work that you do is inspiring other people and showing that there are other ways to do things that may not have seemed possible. I do also just want to congratulate you and Jeeva. I mean, what an incredible partnership. It can be difficult working with your partner sometimes.
00:55:06
Speaker
knowing the limits of, you know, can I, as we said, still be talking about something at 11 o'clock or four in the morning. But congratulations on both taking risks and building exemplary businesses in Australia. Thank you so much, Amber. I really appreciate it.
00:55:22
Speaker
Congratulations. And so I just want to end this podcast talking about this is a medium form produced by women for women to show our gratitude. We donate $500 on your behalf to support a charity of choice. And you have chosen a charity called Bridging Lanka. It is a charity that bridges the ethnic, religious and geographic divides for peace and prosperity in Sri Lanka. Tell us a little bit about why that's so important to you.
00:55:48
Speaker
So I'm Sri Lankan and so for me Sri Lanka has means so much because Jiva came from Sri Lanka and many of you would know there was that civil unrest for almost three decades and as a child he saw things he probably shouldn't have seen as a child and lived through the horrendous
00:56:09
Speaker
war that was unraveling there. As a country it is beautiful and in 2004 it then went under the tsunami and then during COVID has really struggled and for such a small country it's struggling at the moment for me to be able to give back to a place that I call home and Giva calls home and
00:56:30
Speaker
the work that Bridging Lunker are doing are just incredible for the widows. I know personal family members who have lost husbands in the war as a result of the war or as a result of things that have happened who've taken their own lives and it's
00:56:46
Speaker
such a hard as a culture we're ingrained to be submissive women just homemakers and these widows now have don't know what to do my grandmothers were those ladies to to be able to come out of that bridging lunker is aiding them to be able to be independent the work that they do with the children they're providing education for kindergarten children they're trying to
00:57:10
Speaker
assimilate young adults back into society to enable them to work after having come out of this kind of ravaging bore. So the work that Bridging Lung could do, and I was an ambassador last year, but I had to put my, I kind of pulled myself out of it because it was just too much and I needed to focus, but I would love to be able to get back into it. But if, exactly. And for me, it's a charity that's making huge strides in the country that I call home. Okay. Well, we'll definitely put details in there.
00:57:38
Speaker
All right, well, it's time to say goodbye. There is just so much gold that we've got out of this session. And until next time, I hope that you all bite big and chew like hell. See you later. Thank you so much.