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Amber Bites Big with Kate Dillon - Founder @She Lion Group
120 Plays1 year ago
In Episode 6, Amber Bonney Bites Big with guest co-host Kate Dillon - a fearless omni talented founder and creative director of Melbourne-based fashion accessories brand She Lion Group.
Inspired by Amber's own Mantra, "bite big and chew like hell", in this episode we talk about Kate's innate personal drive and how that underpins her mantra "Anything is possible with guts, determination and persistence."
As a mother and lawyer-turned-entrepreneur - Kate's career trajectory is nothing short of exceptional. As a dual qualified lawyer in both Australian and New York, not only is she a successful award-winning ethical business owner, but Kate also holds the role of Director of Employee Strategy & Experience at Gilbert & Tobin Lawyers.
As a trained transformation and innovation coach Kate is no stranger to change and in this episode she openly shares both her academic frameworks and lived experiences in overcoming adversity, taking back control, feeling the feelings and being your own boss (figuratively speaking)!
Bite Big has donated $500 to the chosen charity Fitted for Work an not-for-profit community-led organisation who help women experiencing disadvantage to become work ready and gain secure and meaningful employment.
If you would like to know more about our host Amber Bonney her business The Edison Agency or co-host Kate Dillon you can connect and follow these boss women via the socials links below!
Kate's LinkedIn
Kate's Instagram
She Lion
She Lion's Instagram
AFR Article
"Actually, I Can" Support Local Video - She Lion
The Edison Agency's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's Instagram
Amber's Instagram
Amber's LinkedIn
Fitted for Work
Fitted for Work Instagram
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Transcript
Acknowledgment of Country
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurrung country and we wish to acknowledge them as traditional owners. We recognise First Peoples of Australia as the original storytellers of this country and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.
Introduction to Kate Dillon
00:00:25
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to episode six of Bite Big, a podcast about boss women leading big brands. I'm your host, Amber Bonney. And today I'm excited to be with the fearless powerhouse that is Kate Dillon. Hi, Kate. Hi, Amber.
00:00:41
Speaker
Kate is the founder and creative director of Melbourne-based fashion accessories brand, Sheline. Kate, not only are you an award-winning founder and creative director of Sheline Group, but you do lead a bit of a double life. You're also the director of employee strategy and experience at Gilbert and Tobin Lawyers. That's quite the career duality that you live.
00:01:02
Speaker
you have an exceptionally long achievement list. And I know that you're going to be embarrassed that I'm reading this, but I think for our listeners, everyone's going to want to hear this. So you're a dual qualified lawyer, both here in New York. That's no small feat. So it goes without saying that you have experience in top tier legal practices, but you also have experience in strategy and innovation coaching and consulting.
00:01:24
Speaker
You hold a Bachelor of Law degree, a Masters in Commercial Law. You're a graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and a certified Agile Practitioner, plus a graduate from MIT Sloan School of Management. And you were selected to complete the Executive Program in Women's Leadership at Stanford in California. Well, the list just actually keeps going. I cut that short. What a boss woman you are. And for our listeners, I'm sure that they're understanding now why we invited you on as our guest.
Founding of She-Line Group
00:01:53
Speaker
But today in episode six, we're focusing on your business at the She-Line Group, which you founded in 2015. You wanted to create statement handbags that embody women and enable them to walk feellessly and ignite opportunity. I'm really interested with you sharing with us about how did She-Line Group come about.
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, well thank you so much for having me and very embarrassing that you read that list. It's a big list. I think it's just reflective of being a person that has a big love of learning to be honest. Yeah. But yeah, She-Lan came about because I just couldn't find a handbag that suited my needs. So I was a billable lawyer. I used to carry reams of paperwork back in 2015 with a big chunky laptop and a big black chunky laptop bag that had the dual zip opening. Oh yeah, yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, you know, really liked wearing sort of a power suit and, uh, a great outfit and the bag would always, you know, not bring you down. I have a hundred percent. And then you would also be the bag lady because you'd invariably have some sort of not a nice canvas bag because there weren't so many of them around. It was like a Woolies bag or something that had all your paperwork in it. Oh yeah. That's not cool. No big chunky laptop bag. And then your nice handbag that carried, you know, the things that you kind of need for
00:03:13
Speaker
Day to day. Fixing your makeup barely even though no pockets in there. So Sheline absolutely came about from the frustration that I personally experienced and then observed a lot of other professional women around me experiencing or really any handbag user really. Yeah well I get that I have one of your bags and it's amazing. I love it. It's got so many pockets it's like absolutely everything can fit in there.
Family Values and Mantra
00:03:39
Speaker
Well, Bite Big is about personal mantras. And for every episode, we like to share our co-hosts personal mantra. And so my mantra, Bite Big and True Like Hell, has really inspired everything that I do, really, in terms of stretching up
00:03:56
Speaker
Thinking big, not being afraid to try new things doesn't always mean I succeed, but I like to have a crack, basically. Your mantra, if you'll let me read that out, anything is possible with guts, determination and persistence. So tell us about that.
00:04:13
Speaker
Uh, I think that is absolutely just, that's my mother's mantra and value system and her father's. Wow. So it was generational. This is our first intergenerational mantra. Yeah. Uh, my, my grandpa who actually died this year.
00:04:31
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. Would always say, you know, anything's possible with guts, determination and persistence. And you know, just give it another go. Try again. No, doesn't mean no. You know, don't give up. And that was absolutely instilled in my mum and then very, very much so role modelled and encouraged for my sister and I. And I think that's a big gift because I think if you think
00:04:54
Speaker
in yourself that anything is possible, you do keep trying until you make it, until you get there. And you absolutely are going to make mistakes along the way. But that's where all the lessons are and that's often where all the gold is. And it's when you fail and when you don't get to where you want to get to that you get the insight. You move forward faster than anyone else who hasn't tried. You mentioned that growing up this was something that was sort of talked about as in like a family attitude. Absolutely.
00:05:21
Speaker
Has that changed for you over time? I mean, obviously, like, you know, maybe in teenage years, that wasn't as relevant. But coming into your professional career, is that something? And as you started your business with Sheline, is that something that really kind of kicked in for you? It became a lot more literal. Yeah.
00:05:38
Speaker
Because, you know, when you run a business, as I'm sure you know, you're constantly putting out fires or trying to find new ways to create value or solve process pieces or make things work with no money or whatever that.
Lessons in Resilience from Failure
00:05:54
Speaker
Plenty of hustle going on. You're trying to pull out of the hat that you're dealing with, particularly if you're bootstrapped. But to be fair, I think the biggest wake-up call was probably when I did the bar exam in New York.
00:06:06
Speaker
I had been very privileged I think and lucky in my life to have been born to who I was born to and to have gone to the schools that I went to and to have been blessed with a brain and somebody who was very interested in learning that I'd never really suffered any really public failure. I had had a sibling die and that was really major and I think that was also something that empowered me in terms of well nothing is as bad as that so I'm going to take it on.
00:06:32
Speaker
but I hadn't ever personally properly failed in front of a large group of people before. And I did the bar exam and very publicly had told a lot of people that I was going to do this thing and I was really interested in becoming a fashion lawyer in New York and you have to do the bar exam so it was like 200 hours of lectures online and they sent me honestly like a
00:06:56
Speaker
stack of phone books that was almost as tall as me and you had to go through all of those as well and then you obviously have to fly over there to do it and you do a prep course before. When I did it, which was quite a while ago now, you had to get 665 points out of a thousand across 32 subjects and I got 655 so I missed out by 10 points. Crushing. Yeah. Especially to be so close.
00:07:20
Speaker
It was and it was so many hours because I was working full time so it was like getting up at 4 to study before going to work as a junior lawyer and then coming home at 9 or 10 and then studying again at night time as well. That was a big lesson for me because I had not publicly failed before and my mother's response was, oh well, do it again.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, just do it again. Like just do it again. You know, no big deal. No big deal. Just, you know, 200 hours of your life. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. And that's basically the essence of what anything is possible with Gus determination and persistence means. Um, I think that was probably the first proper time that I'd swallowed that statement wholly. And, uh, yeah, you get back on the horse and I, and I did do it again and I did study again and I did,
00:08:13
Speaker
go over there again and I did pass and then the GFC happened and then they weren't taking any international lawyers so I sought out this woman who was a fashion lawyer who'd like done the Louboutin case with the coloured shoes for the trademark and
00:08:28
Speaker
Wow that would have been fascinating. Incredible lady and she very kindly met with me and she was saying because basically you have to do a master's in fashion law to specialise over there the system is a bit different you can effectively be a partner as soon as you've done the bar exam but
00:08:45
Speaker
to specialise in an area. Often you do a master's degree and you couldn't do that by correspondence. But she said go do a master's in IP in Melbourne and then come back. So I went home and did a master's in IP. It was called master's in commercial law because I did a subject in construction so that I could understand a bit more to support my husband who's a builder.
00:09:05
Speaker
I love that. I did seven subjects in IP and planning construction, so it was officially an MLM rather than an IP Masters, but technically. Same thing. And I had a very supportive law firm partner that I worked for because I was actually in financial services and managed investment scheme area at the time, and he knew that I had this interest in fashion law.
00:09:30
Speaker
And he helped me, which was amazing, move from that practice to a very big practice that did, specialised in IP and had some fashion clients and then moved across once I had the master's degree and I'd got the prize in copyright and started doing IP for two years and then actually realised that I just wanted to run a fashion business.
00:09:55
Speaker
It's all linked, right? That's really interesting. I'm fascinated that you need to do it in independent masters in just that area. I think if you want to specialise and be able to call yourself a fashion lawyer, which sounded so sexy and amazing, there's a lot of power suits and shoes going on in there.
00:10:15
Speaker
woman that I met with, she, I didn't really think it through to the level that I should have. When you turned up to meet her? No, yeah, we were in New York and it was like flooding rain and I had got so excited with buying these hunter gun boots that were like the gun boots to have. And anyway, rocked up and she was like head to toe in for sure.
00:10:36
Speaker
style. Oh next level. Like you know two layers of stockings that were like very cool with the fishnets over the top of another set that were amazing and these like thigh high boots that were all strapped up on this incredible suit that was straight out of suits that didn't exist at the time and the hair was phenomenal and the bag was phenomenal and the coat was phenomenal and all makeup was perfect and I was just like
00:10:58
Speaker
Hello, thank you for being here. I'm from Australia. In your gumboots. Yeah, in my gumboots. It was very wet, but anyway, it's amazing. I think throughout my life, the generosity of people that you don't know that give you these incredible pieces of advice or insight that completely change your career journey.
Generosity in Advice and Connections
00:11:18
Speaker
even on a 15-minute conversation, that if you're open to reaching out and asking for advice or just meeting people and listening to their perspective, the gifts that you can receive are just phenomenal. Well, you have to be open to that, right? In episode five, I talked to Leah Morris from the Mavens and the Mavens are set up as an advocacy group really for gender equality in media and communications industry. Fantastic.
00:11:43
Speaker
And one of the things that Leah was speaking about was her family, you know, advice when she was going out to uni and kind of moving from regional Victoria to the city was all about don't be afraid to ask for help. You have to ask to receive, right? So sometimes, you know, those opportunities sort of seem elusive or like they're not possible. But until you ask, you just don't know. Exactly. And people can be pretty generous with their time.
00:12:07
Speaker
Well, I want to talk about, you know, with guts, determination and persistence. I want to understand, is determination something that's innate for you or something that was learnt based on, you know, family values and dynamic?
00:12:22
Speaker
That's a hard one to answer, to be honest. I think both. I think I'm innately quite a determined, probably stubborn maybe is the word, or dogged type of person. I'm, I often am decisive. I also believe in the statement of, you know, don't wait till you believe that you can do something, decide you want to do it and then go and do it.
00:12:46
Speaker
because you just don't live long enough otherwise and I don't want to ever have any regrets and I think that's part and parcel of having a sibling die. You become very aware of your mortality and so you don't want to waste time so why not jump in and give it a go and you can always course correct. I don't think it's always been easy and I don't think I've picked the easiest path.
00:13:10
Speaker
for the majority of the time. And there are definitely times where it feels like it's too hard, but I feel like I get to a point where it does feel like it's too hard. And then all of a sudden there's a switch in my brain and I come out fighting and I'm like, okay, no, no, no, like put your big girl pants on, like how are we gonna sort this out? And it's like a wake up call. And it's just a trigger response. Like I definitely do get into that stage in different spaces of my life where, oh, this is too hard. I don't know how I will,
00:13:40
Speaker
continue or do this or how I will get out of this or how I will solve this and then it's like no okay realistically where are we and do we have the right view of what's going on and do I have an accurate perception of the stress and what is the actual problem what's under the problem and what are the different solutions that I can apply to this and what areas in my life can I draw upon and who can I speak to and who's experienced something similar and where can I find a solution and
00:14:06
Speaker
Where can I go and have a conversation? Kick into action, but it sounds like things. Yeah, absolutely go into action mode. And you mentioned before you did your master's, you understood the IP law, you did those couple of years. So what was that point where you realized that just a law career was not enough?
00:14:26
Speaker
I've always been closet creative in the law firm. And it's so funny because most lawyers are really creative, but there's no outlet for that really. Yeah. Interesting. And there's much more so now. Like now it's there's much more ability to have legal design. Yeah. You can actually leverage creative thinking much more directly. And I think obviously you have problem solving
00:14:48
Speaker
when you're a lawyer, but so much of it is you and the computer and the client on the other side of the world, depending on the type of law firm that you're working in. There's not that direct creativity outlet. And that was the piece that was missing. And the handbag concept, it being an unmet need and one that I would have loved to play around with, seemed like the perfect opportunity as a first step to just sort of have a play. To doing that. Yeah.
00:15:17
Speaker
Wow. There's not many of you around, I don't think. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Have you met many other women in law who have other businesses? I think there are a lot of lawyers actually that have sort of side hustles, but
00:15:34
Speaker
I don't know that there are a lot that intentionally work half-half. They do one and then decide the other one's now going to take off and do the other. Whereas I've definitely found that having the two have been mutually reinforcing, provided you're able to set it up in a way that is going to work for your life.
00:15:52
Speaker
And so that's about having conversations around how that would work for the business that you work for and how that works for the business that you're running to make sure that it's sustainable. It's sustainable. And so was that something you really had to pitch to the business? You had to be really clear about the value that you could provide and why that would be valuable. But I also work for an incredibly progressive
00:16:12
Speaker
firm that has enabled me to do that for nine years, like way before COVID happened. And I've worked flexibly there the entire time, never worked full time there. I've worked full time the whole time, but not full time for them. They've always been very conscious of being able to enable me to flex days and time.
00:16:34
Speaker
based on other commitments. Yeah, and I think part of that is because when you run a business you understand the ecosystem of your own business and the same principles apply obviously at a much larger scale. To a bigger business it makes you a better employee because you're actually thinking like an owner and understanding how to be a better employee because you are an owner. Yeah, exactly.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, obviously smart people, they recognize that. And they recognize the benefit, obviously, of creativity and innovation in what is typically a very dry industry. But as you said, creativity and design are problem solving. So if you're in law, it's another form of problem solving, right? Absolutely, it is.
00:17:17
Speaker
All of those tools strengthen your ability to provide legal advice and make it more holistic and make it more user-centric. And customers have empathy for people. 100%, yeah. And that's absolutely where we're going with all of this generative AI that's essentially like a reset on the way so many professional services are provided. Those uniquely human skills are going to become the superpower skills and they're the pieces that are going to be needed. Everything else becomes functional.
00:17:46
Speaker
Well, it can be outsourced. Yeah. Yeah.
Empowerment and Brand Ethos
00:17:50
Speaker
Let's talk about walking fearlessly and where that came from and how that fits into your business, Sheila.
00:17:57
Speaker
I feel like walking fearlessly is a potentially shorter, more powerful way of saying anything's possible with custody in the distance. A bit more succinct. Yeah. And that was absolutely off the back of the brand being around bold ambition, which is about you deciding where you want to go and that you can get there if you want it enough.
00:18:20
Speaker
and that nothing should be too big or too far away, and you should always dream big. It was about fierce elegance, so it's about, I am here, I am loud, I am female, and I can be strong. It's like another version of Bite Beat. Yes, absolutely it is. I like the synergy. Absolutely it is.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yeah and premium practicality is a reflection of the woman and the bags because it was never to be honest truly about bags. The bags had to be functional and fabulous and so it's about being really pragmatic.
00:18:54
Speaker
but like premium in your approach. So really realistic but positive and completely you and aware of your uniqueness and owning who you are and the authenticity of who you are boldly. And those three pieces, bold ambition, fierce elegance and premium practicality absolutely are the backbone of walking fearlessly. And the expression originally was and is through handbags because they're a tool that I hope
00:19:22
Speaker
embolden women to step into any setting and perform at their best because they can access what they need when they need it and it's not a big branded piece it's more reflective of the woman and how they're feeling and wanting to express themselves that day which may be electric blue or sequins or sparkles or some sort of textured leather and that was where that came from.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah, we'll definitely have the links to your website, but I would definitely recommend jumping on and have a look because there are some fabulous textures and colors in your range. I want to talk a little bit about resilience and persistence and what
00:19:58
Speaker
keeps you going in spite of hardships because I've heard you speak before at events and you've spoken a lot about hardship and resilience and your experiences during lockdown.
Pivoting Business Strategies During Lockdowns
00:20:09
Speaker
How do you kind of keep going in those moments of feeling like it's too much?
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think my brain works at a point where you definitely go, everybody goes into victim mode for a certain amount of time and then I do absolutely kick into an action mode. Okay, so what is in my control and what is out of my control and how can I move the needle on where I am and how can I make the situation better and what steps can I take right here, right now that will make this better?
00:20:38
Speaker
And have you ever gotten to a point where you felt like you couldn't bounce back? Like, even if it was, you know, 24 hours or a week where you went, actually, I'm just not sure I've got it in me. Yeah. And you wait and then it kicks in. Yes. And now you've learned to trust that.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. And you just revel in that feeling. It's important to feel your feelings. Feel the feelings. Because otherwise you bury them and they come out at the point where you don't want them to come out at an inopportune moment. And I've learnt that too. I'd like you to talk a little bit, if you don't mind, about the work that you were doing in community during lockdown. It really is about resilience and persistence and then anchored to this sense of community. And I know that's really important to you. So yeah, tell us about that.
00:21:24
Speaker
Sure. Well, 2020 arrived and obviously we solved the need that women experience when they're needing to take all their office utensils to and from where they work. And if you're no longer commuting, you don't really need a handbag to move your gear in lockdown. No. And you definitely don't need a really beautiful handbag to move your gear from the kitchen to the home office.
00:21:48
Speaker
So the problem that we solved, it almost disappeared overnight and it became radically apparent that if the business was going to stay alive that there would need to be a different offering for however long this period was going to be on for.
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And I was at home with a newborn and I had a three-year-old and we were living in regional Victoria at the time and my husband was commuting three nights a week to Melbourne to do his job. My newborn had really bad reflux.
00:22:20
Speaker
So I wasn't getting much sleep anyway to do with a newborn, but like a lot less. And you know, we were suffering more than 40% losses in sales. Everything was more expensive. So it was more than 30% increase in logistics and freight and materials. And it was just quite difficult to move anything and everything was delayed. And I'd also put most of my capital up to invest in a really exclusive premium, premium range of bags that arrived in February.
00:22:49
Speaker
before the lockdown started in March that were totally not, uh, PC to be selling, you know, almost a thousand dollar handbags to commute manual commuting. And no one was commuting. No. So, uh, it was a tough time.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't good. And I am always keen on wearing slogan sweatshirts. I have one that says superhero. And I put up a photo of my personal Instagram account, which was more of a rally cry to myself, like milk vomit.
00:23:22
Speaker
on it and everything saying, you know, we can do anything. Women are amazing. We're going to get through this. It's going to be okay. And all these people commented on it saying, gosh, you should make a walk, fearlessly talk. And that absolutely inspired the idea of
00:23:38
Speaker
Maybe there's something that I could make that is entirely Australian made, like every single element that brings together a whole group of other small businesses that are also suffering and that showcases the abilities that we have here in our backyard because we are so dependent on international manufacturing. Maybe this is a point of difference and a really good initiative that's feel good, that's going to make
00:24:04
Speaker
feel better that may save my business that would absolutely bring awareness to other businesses and if that was the way it died then I'd feel really good about it and maybe that's where I should explore. Did that little pivotal moment become a new kind of fire in your belly at that point once you once you got there because you were
00:24:23
Speaker
Tired, you know, two children in a regional town during lockdown. Like that doesn't sound like fun to anyone. Plus, you know, with a flailing business and a product that was no longer required. Like I can imagine finding a new sense of inspiration would have been, yeah, quite the ray of sunshine in a very dark space.
00:24:43
Speaker
Critical critical and then I absolutely channeled any spare time into that into that and so it was a space I knew nothing about like like nothing about like I don't know anything about Designing clothes making specs for clothes what's what's involved to create?
00:24:59
Speaker
some apparel, how you sew, like I'd learned how to sew at a certain level to make handbags and hadn't made samples with the handbags and dabbled with sewing in the past and had a sewing machine but by no means was a dressmaker.
00:25:14
Speaker
cushion covers. Yeah and like not great ones. But I had worked at Feathers when I was at law school and Marg is incredible and knew that she manufactured some things in Brunswick and so literally cold called the garment manufacturer and said Mr Longbow I'm a handbag manufacturer I used to work for Margaret Park
00:25:39
Speaker
I know that you manufacture for feathers so that you must be amazing. I'm keen to make a sweatshirt end-to-end Australian made. I don't really know where to start. I have some concept about how to pull together a supply chain because I do that with my bags. I know how to design, manufacture and sew bags, but I appreciate that's quite different to apparel. Is that something that you can support me with? And he was amazing. He absolutely...
00:26:05
Speaker
absolutely gave me like a whole book of contacts to talk to, um, some, a whole list of questions to consider and, and what to think about at each stage. And, but then each person along the journey would then also give me three or four or five contacts as well, even if they were competitors of theirs, just because the concept itself, I think was giving people a feel good energy. That was probably a sense of hope in their dark cloud. Well, yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, and so that that's all these amazing like veterans of industry like really incredible people got on board Amazing. Yeah, and so I thought I absolutely need to go and and this was all over zoom and phone calls and text messages and couriers that got lost in lockdown obviously because you couldn't go and speak to them and It turns out that a sweatshirt is not
00:26:55
Speaker
Simple at all. It's not a straightforward process.
Showcasing Local Talent
00:26:58
Speaker
It's got lots and lots of different elements that obviously go unseen. If you're sending something overseas and arguably if you're sending it to overseas factories, they're much bigger and they have a lot of these pieces in house. But it was really important that I was sort of getting each of the makers involved and showcase. So all of the small businesses that were like my small business, having all of those people involved.
00:27:19
Speaker
And then after meeting those people over the phone, finally being let out of lockdown and going to meet them in person and feeling like we'd known each other for years, deciding that it was critically important that I interview them. And so I went around and videoed them all on my phone thinking that it'd be sufficient. So I interviewed the first, the garment manufacturer and the cotton weaver and the industrial wash house and the
00:27:44
Speaker
plastic manufacturer, the recycled plastic manufacturer and all of these conversations are gone for like an hour and a half and that was just the first few I'd interviewed and it became very apparent very quickly that this was just unbelievable stories that I wasn't doing it justice capturing it on a phone and it really cemented the fact that this initiative was so much bigger than my business and something that needed to be appropriately scaffolded and put out
00:28:13
Speaker
so that it could be used as an asset, arguably at a much higher level outside of Sheline that has nothing to do with Sheline, so that it could demonstrate that a very small business can make one product that touches 300 Australian hands. And if a small business could do something like that, like imagine if a big business
00:28:31
Speaker
even just did one skew or one element of all skews or even just showcased the difference that it would make if there was more funding in this area or if there was more insight and ability for people to go in and step into apprenticeships and have funding for apprenticeships because there isn't the funding for apprenticeships in fashion and you know people can easily name builders and carpenters and electricians but they don't always know that there's such options as being like a cutter or seamstress or a
00:29:01
Speaker
a weaver or a wash house specialist or a diet. There's all these other specialties that we have, but we don't have the succession planning in place because we don't have the infrastructure and the funding behind it. And if we don't support it, we'll lose it.
00:29:18
Speaker
Yeah, locally. And that would be such a shame, wouldn't it? Well, I think, I can't remember exactly off the top of my head, but it's a $32 billion industry that's 77% women employees. It contributes a lot to our GDP. Wow. And it could contribute so much more if it was appropriately supported or focused on as a growth piece. And I think it's not going to be the last pandemic that we have. And it's probably
00:29:47
Speaker
I appreciate it's a wicked problem and I'm stepping into it as an outsider and it's easy to make sweeping statements. But it seems like it's the perfect area that's ripe for disruption that could bring great strength to Australia and provide a lot of jobs and have a real impact on our economy if there were some ways to support it.
00:30:06
Speaker
I mean, a lot of jobs, but also the quality and integrity of the product. Absolutely. So, you know, you're reducing waste. Of the carbon. Yeah, like the carbon emissions, the fact that, you know, you're buying better quality. You're not going to necessarily throw it out as quickly. It's going to stay as a staple piece in your wardrobe.
00:30:27
Speaker
And I know that you know, there certainly are in for those who can afford to make those decisions in their life People are choosing now to be a bit more considered about the pieces they buy absolutely for those reasons exactly what an opportunity let's That feels like it's a it's a government
00:30:43
Speaker
It's a government-based... It's a loaded wicked problem that's multi-layered. But I think the stories from these amazing people who have been in the industry for 30, 40, 50 years, telling these stories about how they've survived multiple different downturns and the globalisation and all the outsourcing overseas and componentry and capability going overseas and how to manage margins and how that's become really difficult because you just can't compete with the labour costs internationally.
00:31:13
Speaker
And so how would you support that so that that's more desirable here in Australia? And then it's the whole consumer education piece around actually what they're buying and why that is worth investing more in, but then also making that accessible, because not everybody can afford to pay that, but then you are paying Australians. How do you democratise that? And multiple pieces that would feed into making that a possibility.
00:31:39
Speaker
I want to talk about being a brand boss.
Aligning Life with Personal Values
00:31:42
Speaker
When we were researching for this podcast, we had lots of workshops internally with all the women in the business to talk about what was this going to be about. We got onto the track about mantras. We talked a lot about, do we want to use the word boss?
00:31:58
Speaker
negative stigma around boss coming from a very masculine gendered place and then it coming from a negative place of kind of authority and being autocratic, which didn't sit comfortably for people. But then we sort of got to the end and we're like, actually, we're just going to take back that word and kind of own it and lean into it. And so I want to ask you about what that means for you. So you've got these dual roles.
00:32:25
Speaker
Do you see yourself as a boss? What's the connection with that word? How do you feel about that?
00:32:31
Speaker
I love that you say that you're reclaiming it. I think that's really good. I think in life, actually, what I've learned, at least my observation from my own experience, has been that you need to be the boss of yourself and that you are in control of you and that you have the ability to change something if it's not right. And I think it's super important that you consider yourself as your own business
00:32:57
Speaker
and you actually think about it like that and you think about are you achieving what you want to achieve and is the experience of you what you're intending it to be and where do you want to go to and what are the steps that you need to take to get yourself there and if there aren't pieces that are aligned how are you as the boss of you going to take control and make it more aligned and ensure that you're satisfied and engaged and doing what you want to do.
00:33:22
Speaker
because you do only live once and there really isn't time to waste on things that, you know, are draining at a huge level or that don't align with your values. I mean, there will always be aspects of things that you do have to do that will, it can't be perfect all the time, but fundamentally it shouldn't be depressing or it shouldn't be
00:33:44
Speaker
not aligned with your values and the direction that you're wanting to go in. And there are always multiple ways and there is never one solution. There are always many solutions and you are always able to course correct. Yeah. Has there been a time where
00:33:59
Speaker
you just feel like you've really fucked up and you need to course correct? Yeah, many. That's where all the lessons are. Many, many, many times. I think that was the gift of failing the bar exam. Was a public failure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think experiencing that was mortifying, but also like, well, I can do that now. I've done that now. And I hope no one else has to have a public mortifying family like that.
00:34:24
Speaker
But realistically no one cares about anyone else really other than themselves to be honest. Like I felt like everybody would be talking about it but nobody like they're like oh that's a shame for Kate or haha Kate failed or hopefully not but realistically everybody else's opinion is their opinion and it actually has nothing to do with you so
00:34:44
Speaker
It's about you taking control and how you steer the ship when you are in troubled waters, rather than so much how you steer the ship when you're not. And that's where your integrity piece and your values come to light. And so it's about you being the boss of you and making the decision. Let's talk about a biggest B moment for you.
00:35:07
Speaker
Bite big, it's got two B's in it. We like the idea of thinking about a B word. When I think of you, I think of brave. That definitely comes to mind. Actually, all the words on my mirror post-it lit actually, I feel like, resonate with you. But what's been a big B moment that you think has had the most impact for you?
00:35:26
Speaker
I think if you think about Boss or Brave or Bold or Best or Brand, the fundamental thread that runs through all of those is being authentic to yourself and being comfortable to sit with yourself. And I don't think I fully was able to do that until I was in my mid-30s, but I think, gosh, that's powerful.
00:35:51
Speaker
Once you're aware of who you are and you're comfortable being authentically you and radically transparent about that, it doesn't matter what happens. Like, you know who you are and you know what's right for you. And then you have the confidence to be able to navigate appropriately as long as it's aligned with who you are, what you stand for. Yeah. And it's such a shame really, isn't it, that
00:36:20
Speaker
these lessons come so late in life.
Life Experiences vs Traditional Learning
00:36:25
Speaker
The next thing I wanted to talk about, which we talk about with all guests is this sentiment of, you know, I wish I'd read or I'd wish I'd watched or I'd wish I'd listened to. And, you know, thinking about those lessons, of course, you know, some of the benefits of aging is wisdom, right? Wisdom and confidence and just giving less fucks than you did in your 20s.
00:36:47
Speaker
What can you think of that you sort of wish you could have told yourself or wish you could have read in your 20s? That would have helped you on that journey. Gosh. Is there a book? You know, sometimes I still find this when
00:37:01
Speaker
You know, I'm approaching 50 and, you know, someone says, oh, you got to read this book. And you're like, where has this been in my life? How did I not even know? And you read it and you're like, oh my God, like this author or whatever it is, you see a TED talk and go this just next level. It would have been great if I had have known that when I was, you know, 18 or 25 or.
00:37:21
Speaker
There are so many TED talks. I think Margaret Heffernan has this amazing talk about social capital and the power of relationships and it's called something around the pecking order or forget the pecking order. I think everything is about relationships and I think everything is about how you support others and how you give.
00:37:43
Speaker
because actually the more that you give, it comes back three, four, five fold. So it's not about going out to take, it's about going out to give and actually not expecting anything in return. And it all being a long-term investment and it's about what is the benefit of someone else having a relationship with you and how are you providing a positive experience for that other person. But to be honest, I don't know that I
00:38:09
Speaker
wish I had read or done anything differently because all of the experiences that I had I think because I've been in a privileged unfortunate position have been from exploring opportunities that were unconventional and that were non-traditional that did often result in an awkward or uncomfortable outcome.
00:38:30
Speaker
that I learned from that I wouldn't have been able to digest from a book or a talk or a movie or a podcast or a letter in the same way as if I hadn't actually lived and experienced it. And I think I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't experienced all those different pieces because that is what shapes you and that's the beauty of everyone being unique.
00:38:54
Speaker
because everybody's lens and experience and life journey is different. And so everybody's value is special and unique to them. And I think it's about being able to articulate and own that and know yourself and feel comfortable in that space that you're really valuable and you are enough. I really love that. I really think you should write a book. Have you got any books in the wings?
00:39:15
Speaker
I want to write a book. I can't decide what on. And I feel like that's a whole new learning journey as well. Yes, there's a lot. There's a lot going on. Just add that to your side hustle number 486. I haven't, but I have several in my brain. I was going to say, I'm sure you do. But again, that whole idea of what topic, I think I'd end up with like 3,000 mural boards trying to determine which is it.
00:39:38
Speaker
business? Is it design? Is it like personal experiences? Yeah, there's a lot that I can focus on. And the process of you doing that would probably be amazing. And there would be so many gifts coming out of just that process anyway. I know, it's there. But I also want to do my PhD, so like that's in there. Tie them together. Yeah. You write a book as part of the PhD. Yeah, I like it.
00:40:04
Speaker
Well, Kate, you are definitely a boss co-host. I really want to thank you for joining me today. It's been so wonderful and for showing us your version of biting big and sharing your mantra. Anything is possible with guts, determination and persistence. I really wanted to point out a couple of things that I've taken my little notes onto here. One is you're talking about the ripple effecting community. So that experience during lockdown being
00:40:30
Speaker
bigger than you, bigger than Sheila and I definitely think there's a future proposition in that sentiment, which I'm excited to wherever you take that to see how does Sheila and evolve into something else.
Considering Oneself as a Business
00:40:42
Speaker
I really love the idea of you being your own boss and thinking about yourself as your own business. I think that's really inspiring.
00:40:51
Speaker
for people to not feel like they're just on a journey they have no control of and they're just here existing and they're doing their, you know, nine to five and they have no influence over what's happening. I think that's a really beautiful sentiment.
00:41:06
Speaker
I most of all feel the feelings, you know, I think there's something really beautiful about acknowledging that sometimes you do just have to feel the feelings and, you know, being publicly vulnerable, I think is also really important, both for women and for men. Being okay with that and saying, yep, I did, I fell over or I did something wrong or I, you know, whatever it was, but, you know, knowing that that's going to be that opportunity to learn.
00:41:30
Speaker
The other podcast is produced by lots of incredible women and made for women. And to show our gratitude, we donate 500 on your behalf to a charity and you've chosen Fitted for Work, which I was very excited about because we support Fitted for Work also at Edison Agency.
00:41:47
Speaker
For those of you who don't know Fitter for Work, they help women experiencing disadvantage to become work-ready and gain secure employment and they do that by helping get ready for job interviews, providing clothes and outfits and also training and development. Tell us how you came across Fitter for Work and what significance that has for you.
00:42:05
Speaker
I have been a big supporter of fitted for work for a long time. I regularly gift them bags if I have inventory that I haven't been able to move that's still really beautiful product. I regularly donate clothing. I just think what they do is fabulous. So yeah, any opportunity that Sheline has been able to support them, that's absolutely been the place where I would go.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah well lots of synergy because yeah we've been supporting them as well and again you know women finding paid work you know coming out of whether it's disadvantage or they might have just even been out of the workforce for a really long time and they've lost their confidence so it is a great organization and we'll definitely be putting the link in for the show notes if anyone wants to support them.
00:42:48
Speaker
Well, thank you. It's been a wonderful experience. And I know that all of our listeners will really get something out of this session. So thanks so much. I'm your host, Anne Bonny. And until next time, may you bite big and chew like hell. Yeah.