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00:00:01
Amber Bites Big with Mim Haysom, Executive General Manager of Suncorp
33 Plays9 days ago
In Episode 13 of BITE BIG, I sat down with Mim Haysom, Executive General Manager of Brand and Customer Experience at Suncorp Group, to dig into exactly that.
Mim’s career is one that most would consider enviable. From GM at M&C Saatchi to holding one of the most influential brand roles in Australia, overseeing AAMI, GIO, and Shannons, to name a few, her resume is heavy with achievements. But what really stood out in our conversation wasn’t her accolades. It was her authenticity, self-awareness, and a mantra that reminds us what really matters: Life is short, so love what you do.
👑 Boss Takeaways from Episode 13 with Mim
- “Life is short, so love what you do.” - Mim’s mantra, inherited from her father, is a powerful reminder to find meaning and joy in your work because we spend too much of our lives working not to.
- Passion can drive impact - From GayTMs to One House, Mim’s most defining projects were powered by belief, not just data. When purpose meets bravery, extraordinary things happen.
- Leadership is symbiotic - You’re only as good as your team, and they’re only as strong as the confidence and support you give them. Empowerment is not optional; it’s essential.
- Progress isn’t always linear - Forget the ladder. Mim’s journey proves that growth often comes from sideways moves, big leaps, and unplanned pivots.
- Say yes, but be intentional - Early in her career, Mim said yes to everything. Now, she says yes to what aligns with her values and serves her whole self. A reminder for all of us to be more thoughtful about how we spend our time.
- Define your purpose early - Understanding your personal values and purpose isn’t a mid-career luxury, it’s a strategic advantage. Get clear on it sooner, and let it guide your path.
- Bite big and chew like hell - Taking on the Suncorp role was a huge pivot and she’s still chewing. Mim’s career is a masterclass in bold moves backed by belief and a lot of hustle.
🔗 Follow BITE BIG for more unfiltered stories from women who lead big one mantra at a time.
Links:
Mim Haysom LinkedIn
Mim Haysom Facebook
Suncorp LinkedIn
Suncorp Instagram
St Vincents Clinic Foundation
The Marketing Academy
Amber's Instagram
Amber's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's LinkedIn
The Edison Agency's Instagram
CREDITS
Host & ECD – Amber Bonney, The Edison Agency Founder
Producer – Niki Beeston, Group Account Director, The Edison Agency
Marketing – Liz Archer, Head of Operations, The Edison Agency
Social Assets – Alyssa Payad, Intern, The Edison Agency
Post Production – Francine Toscano, 17th Street Audio
Recommended
Transcript
Acknowledgment and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
On behalf of the Bite Big team, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land we are recording on today, the Boon Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. We recognise that with over 60,000 years of experience, First Peoples of Australia are most definitely the original storytellers, designers and artists of this country, and we pay our respect to their elders past, present and emerging.
Amber's Advocacy and The Edison Agency
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, before we get stuck into this episode of Fight Big, let me tell you a little bit about who the hell I am and why this content is important to me. My name's Amber Bonney and for the past 25 years, I've been reshaping iconic Australian and international brands, helping them stay relevant, get noticed and be remembered in the good kind of way.
00:00:47
Speaker
I'm a passionate feminist and committed to advocating for better representation of women in senior creative and marketing roles, which is why this podcast is proudly brought to you by my business, The Edison Agency.
00:01:00
Speaker
If your brand or organisation needs help aligning your vision to your reputation, then you can find us at www.edison.agency or you can connect with me on LinkedIn.
Introduction of Co-host Mem Haysen
00:01:11
Speaker
Let's get into it.
00:01:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Season 3, Episode 13 of Bite Big, a podcast about boss women leading big brands. I'm your host, Amber Bonney, and today I'm co-hosting this episode with one of Australia's biggest names in brand and marketing leadership,
00:01:30
Speaker
Welcome, Mem Haysen.
Mem Haysen's Career Path and Personal Mantra
00:01:32
Speaker
Hi, Amber. Mim, let me just um give you a little bit of a bio intro. You are a prolific podcast guest, industry thought leader, panellist, awards judge. Your career has seen you on both sides of the marketing services fence, leading big creative agencies like M&C Saatchi, where you were GM of the Australian operations, and then now on the client side, pivoting into your current role as executive general manager of brand and customer experience at Suncorp Group.
00:02:01
Speaker
Now, for those of you who may not know the scale of Suncorp Group, currently ranked number 31 and still in growth on the Australian Stock Exchange, your role sees you responsible really for the reputation and customer experience of some of Australia's most iconic service brands, notably AAMI, Shannon's and GIO, and they are all brands that we would have seen on our screens or heard on our radio or seen the billboards out and about. So a big role.
00:02:28
Speaker
You have also recently been appointed to the Australian Association of National Advertisers Board. Congratulations on that. And last year you were recognised on the Asia-Pacific Power List. You have a string of notable other achievements, including the coveted number one position in the CMO Top 50.
00:02:44
Speaker
And while your accolades are really nothing short of spectacular, today we're going to dig a bit deeper and get beyond what we might see on your LinkedIn profile and what a quick Google search or nowadays ChatGPT might tell us.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. We're going to this off with getting under the skin of what your personal mantra is and why we think you're a boss woman with a great story to tell. So let us kick off.
00:03:09
Speaker
So Mim, if you don't mind me saying, your personal mantra is life is short, so love what you do. and I'm really curious, as I'm sure everyone is, how did this come about and how does this show up for you?
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's probably something that I guess has been in the background for me for quite a long time. Until you've asked me to write a personal mantra, I'll be really honest, I didn't have one.
00:03:34
Speaker
ah Yeah, and so it's common. Yeah, so I was like, what do I think has probably influenced me as a soundbite throughout my life.
00:03:46
Speaker
And my dad, who I was very close to, and he was very influential in in my approach to life, he used to say, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And you know that's probably a little bit unrealistic because we all know no matter how much you love your job, there are some days where it's still a grind, right? You have hard days. But I really love the premise of it, that if you are really, if you believe in what you're doing, if you've got a clear purpose in what you want to contribute in your professional life and you find a role that helps you fulfill that purpose, then you you can really enjoy your professional life and your work. So, and let's face it, life is short. We all work a huge percentage of our adult lives are spent at work. And so I just believe like life is short. Time is our most precious commodity.
00:04:35
Speaker
And so, you know, we should all be trying to do something that we find fulfilling personally in our professional lives. So, you know, love what you do. Now, I was a bit careful when I selected this as well because I thought at the end of the day, you know, i' in a pretty privileged position to be able to say that I love what i do I recognise that there are some people that,
00:04:59
Speaker
literally need to put food on the table. But I think how you how you think about in every position that you're in in life, how do you create and find some meaning and some joy is really important. But I do recognise that I'm in a privileged position to say you should love what you do So i'm just I'm just a bit mindful of that as well.
00:05:19
Speaker
But that's that's my position. That's what my dad instilled in me. You know, go for it, find something you love and then you'll feel really fulfilled and and enjoy your life a
Career Challenges and Passion-Driven Decisions
00:05:28
Speaker
whole lot more. Now, i know having been in agency life, you know, independent, smaller agencies um to your experience, but it it can be a bit of a grind. Have there times that you've really had to make a really conscious reminder about, is this what I love? I mean, you you did pivot in your career, but it can be an exhausting industry.
00:05:50
Speaker
Are there times where you really had to remind yourself of that mantra? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. um i would say I've always, I always wanted to work in ah creative industry.
00:06:02
Speaker
um Similarly to my dad, my mum was really influential and she was ah a marketing director in a fashion organisation. So I grew up spending my school holidays on on um photo shoots.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I think I had the esteemed title of um stylist on a photo shoot by the age of about 15, which basically meant I was just organising the earrings and the ties. But I loved being in that creative. But these days that would be on LinkedIn as someone's core achievement. Well, it was good fun. But what it did give me was a real passion and love for creativity, the creative industry.
00:06:39
Speaker
And so I always knew from quite early on that I wanted to to be in a creative environment with creative people. And so I think that's what really in in some of those, you know, when you're working on a pitch or it's really long hours or you're not seeing eye to eye on with someone on on a creative element, which happens all the time, that is what creative relationships are. You always know that you're there because you're really passionate about delivering a great output at the end of the day. ah But what I would say is i I did get to a point later in my agency career where I did feel like I'd really lost the joy for it.
00:07:12
Speaker
The company and the role I was in was not a good cultural fit for me and a good fit for my values. And I learned a lot from that and I'm happy to dig into that with you. But I wasn't enjoying it. So I actually left i left that role and I didn't have something else to go to because for me,
00:07:29
Speaker
it was too much of a compromise, how it was impacting my personal wellbeing, the way my confidence levels, the way I was interacting and engaging with others. I was so far from the best version of myself that it was just not right anymore. So i think that is...
00:07:48
Speaker
a really good example of kind of staying true to and living that personal mantra, even though I'd never articulated it as my personal mantra, you know, but it was like, there's there's a tipping point that I wasn't willing to tolerate anymore.
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, yeah, certainly familiar for a lot of women in leadership, especially. Now, i i dug around and listened to a lot of podcasts or articles that you had been um mentioned in. And there was one from five years ago from Future You where you talked about the fact that you didn't have your career mapped, but you knew what you enjoyed. So even i can sort of see the thread that even younger, even though you didn't consciously think about that mantra, the idea of being excited by something certainly sounds like something that's driven you.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah, oh definitely. and And yes, I stand by that today. I'm a terrible career planner. And the irony in that is that I constantly talk to my team about their development plans and and you know what they want to do in the next 12, 18, 24 months, what's next. So the way I always approached it was...
00:08:55
Speaker
You know, if something was offered up in terms of a role or an opportunity or you know, something new to take on in my younger years, like I just, my automatic response was to say yes.
00:09:06
Speaker
Like say yes to everything because I was going to learn, I was going to grow, i was going to get to meet new people, have new experiences and just to continue to expand more.
00:09:17
Speaker
um my my own experience and knowledge base. so I just always said yes to everything. And then I guess my my mantra, if you like, back then without knowing it was just like work really hard at the role that you're in.
00:09:31
Speaker
And if you work really hard at it and you love it, you naturally tend to be quite good at it. And people notice that. and And what happened to me early in my career was I just kind of got picked up by people I'd work with And they'd go to another role and then they'd hit me up and say, hey, come across. And if it sounded interesting and right for me, i was like, yeah, cool, I'll give it a crack.
00:09:52
Speaker
So it was always um my whole career really until Suncorp. I didn't have to work on a plan and I just kind of got swept up in a momentum that came off the back of being a really hard worker who was passionate about you know, creativity. So, um yeah, I was a terrible planner.
00:10:11
Speaker
I'm trying to get better at it. And my CEO is really, really good at helping me become a better planner. She's constantly like, what want to do next? So, yeah, I'm trying to get better at it. The reason that this podcast is called Bite Big is because my amount interest Bite Big and Chew Like Hell.
00:10:28
Speaker
And there's definitely a bit of that sentiment in that just get in, work hard, aim big that I've heard in the thread of what you were talking about, especially in your and your younger self. I want to ask a question around when we think about loving what you do, there really is a deep sense of passion that comes through in that and in a lot of the projects that you have been accoladed with.
00:10:49
Speaker
I want to ask about the idea of passion versus logic. And was there a time that you can think of where you've made a big decision based on your passion versus necessarily going through the planning or the logic or the analytics of it?
00:11:04
Speaker
Probably many.
00:11:09
Speaker
And again, you know, as I'm getting a bit more experienced, I tend to be and I try to be ah a little ah little more logic-based and data-driven. um and in my current role, I have to be quite data-driven. So, um you know, but I would say i made a heck of a lot of decisions in my the younger, earlier part of my career based purely on passion. I would say some of the the best work that I've done and got through was because I believed in it passionately, but also so did the brilliant team around me. So the GayTMs campaign that we did for ANZ, which is a long time ago now, it's 2014. And that was with Caroline Gindle.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah. ah So that's why I said the team around me. It was literally like it was such a small group of us in reality that worked on um that project.
00:12:01
Speaker
And she protected that and championed that through is age so brilliantly because she really believed in it and we all really believed in it the agency paid for a whole lot of of that work because it was quite a ah you know a small budget from the client side and once once the the idea was born the small group of people there was probably only about really truth be told eight of us that really worried that project through and it nearly got pulled the night before because you know there were
00:12:32
Speaker
there were more conservative people on the client side that were like, this is too high risk and we don't want to do it. And we were like, well, sorry to let you know, but it's Mardi Gras tomorrow. being All the ATMs on the street are already bejeweled. So the horse has bolted.
00:12:47
Speaker
But that like that was just a great example of a group of people who were so passionate about diversity, inclusion, this beautiful, joyful, magnificent idea And we really didn't know if it was going to land, if we were going to get backlash. I mean, Carolyn put everything on the line, really.
00:13:06
Speaker
And what about the, um I mean, you won a Lion for the One House um initiative 2022. Was that a similar situation? Was that really about, you know, purposeful passion looking to create impact?
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's so many similarities between the the two stories, right? One House is just the perfect embodiment of Suncorp's purpose, which is to build futures and protect what matters. And we really saw an opportunity to innovate and be trailblazers around how we help to support customers and communities by understanding how we can help them to make their homes more resilient to the increasing climate change risk and the increasing perils that we're seeing you know hit our local communities. It took us 18 months to
00:13:55
Speaker
20 months to to create that campaign. And a big part of that production was during COVID. So I would say a much bigger group of people worried that one through because, you know, we we partnered with James Cook University, CSIRO, an architecture firm. We had our agency partners in that, a big team of of mine here in Suncorp.
00:14:17
Speaker
And a brilliant group of people that really worried that through because everyone so passionately believed in it. But again, it nearly fell over like three times because there were so many external factors almost conspiring against us to stop us from making this brilliant thing come to life, even through, you know, travel restrictions and all of those things that you can imagine.
00:14:42
Speaker
And so we're all we're we're all so incredibly proud of that work. and And yes, there were people that went, including myself, all of us went above and beyond because we were so passionate about it.
00:14:53
Speaker
There was logic in that one too, for sure, because we you know we were we were looking at the increasing weather events, the increasing severity going We've got to be able to do something more. We'd always done storm season campaigns telling people how to clean their gutters and storm season's coming. But we just knew there was something bigger that we could do in that space. So, you know, it it was that was a really easy one to get people on board with because um it was relatively low risk in comparison and it just made sense.
00:15:26
Speaker
But the only thing that got it made really was the passion of that amazing team who made it all happen. Yeah, who worked behind it. What did that project or both of those projects really teach you about leadership and your leadership?
00:15:41
Speaker
I would say you're only as good as the people and the team that you have and they're only as good as the confidence, empowerment and support that you give them.
00:15:53
Speaker
To me, I think it's a really circular relationship. simple yeah Yeah, that's a better way of putting it. It's a really symbiotic relationship. And when you get that chemistry right, it's so incredibly powerful and what you can achieve together is brilliant. And
Women in Leadership and Role Models
00:16:10
Speaker
I suppose that's the benefit of working, I imagine, when you took time off post-agency life and thinking about what's next.
00:16:18
Speaker
Working for an organisation that did have a purposeful intent to do more would have, I imagine, been an important part of that next journey for you.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, hugely important. I made a lot of mistakes in that last part um of my agency leadership. I sort of changed my style and my way of approaching people and leadership because i was being influenced and encouraged that that was the only way to do it, to lead.
00:16:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it wasn't right for me. It wasn't right for the team. And and and the whole thing just kind of, you know, didn't work um for anyone. The whole thing fell over.
00:16:59
Speaker
And so I learned so much from that. And I spent a lot of time following on from that, really working out who I wanted to be as a leader, what kind of organisation was going to be the right one for me to bring that back.
00:17:14
Speaker
And, you know, I spoke to a lot of people about different roles and um And then I sat down and I was talking to Karen Taylor at Herrigans. I'm sure she wouldn't mind me mentioning her. She's another fabulous woman.
00:17:27
Speaker
And she she told me about this role and I got butterflies and I was like, oh, my God, that's it. That's the one. For so many reasons, I loved the purpose of the organisation. ah loved everything she sort of told me about the culture.
00:17:40
Speaker
um There was an amazing CEO at the time, Pip Marlowe, who was hiring for the role that I took. Everything just felt right. Again, passion versus logic.
00:17:51
Speaker
There were lots of other roles logically that could have been great, but it was, I literally, as she was telling me, I've got butterflies and I was like, this is it, I want this job. but I wanted it so bad. i was like, I'm going to have to really fight for this.
00:18:04
Speaker
That was scary. That was scary and a different place for me to be in and have to navigate as well. I had no track record, like, working in corporate. Like, I'd worked on ComBank for many years, on ANZ for many years. So I ah had lots of experience building FinServices brands.
00:18:21
Speaker
IAG was one of my clients at MNC as well. So I had experience working on but never in. And so the risk that, you know, i would not be seen as the right cultural fit was massive.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, a risk, ah in some ways, a risk for them, but in other ways, you know When you have worked in such big agencies, um aside from some of the cultural challenges, the understanding of how big brands work and and brand management and leadership, I imagine that was probably what was missing for them and and why you were such an attractive person.
00:18:55
Speaker
candidate outside of all of the other accolades that you have under your belt. You touched on something that was really my next question. So it was a beautiful segue in your experience in agency land and sort of feeling like you needed to mould to a certain way of leadership.
00:19:11
Speaker
How do we socially redefine leadership in a way that works for women rather than fitting into these sort of outdated leadership models of of what leadership should look like?
00:19:25
Speaker
Oh, look, i think I think we've come a really long way. and I was reflecting on this yesterday, you know, when when I was moving up through the ranks in my career in agencies, it was very male dominated.
00:19:38
Speaker
There were not very many female agency leaders. um Jane Emery and Melinda Gertz later on were were like, you know, few and far between. And so I think, you know, back in the day, you kind of made and a natural assumption as a woman that you had to behave differently, they you know,
00:19:58
Speaker
Behave a bit more like a bloke, let's be honest, if you're going to get ahead. Like don't show any emotion, for goodness sake, don't talk about the fact that, you know, your eight-month-old baby threw up all down the back of your jacket as you were walking out the door. Like just don't even mention it. Don't go there because it will be seen as a weakness and, you know, it will work against you was kind of the way the culture and the the leadership view was, you know, back in the in the ninety s early two thousand I think it's really come a long way and I can only speak to my experience now and today and I've been at Suncorp six and a half years.
00:20:39
Speaker
But we have an incredible female chairman in Christine McLaughlin. She's such an inspiration. We have a female CEO of Insurance Australia with Lisa Harrison. i have incredible female leaders, role models,
00:20:54
Speaker
who really, they're incredible and inspiring leaders. um They're empathetic, they show vulnerability, they're still all about high performance, um but they know how to get the best out of people in a very different way to what I experienced leadership to be in and 30s.
00:21:15
Speaker
think the more
00:21:18
Speaker
so i think the more ah the more organisations continue to get gender diversity right and bring incredible women into leadership roles who bring their whole selves into those roles, like the examples I just shared.
00:21:34
Speaker
And I'm increasingly seeing that happen more and more. My my agency partners, Sian runs OMD, Claire runs Leo. There's female leaders who are role modelling great leadership now, today, and I'm seeing it more and more and more. And that just makes me so happy because I think...
00:21:51
Speaker
The females coming up through those organisations today are going to have such a different experience to me and they're going to feel empowered to bring their whole self.
00:22:02
Speaker
And i like that really, I'm really happy about that. So I think it's getting better. It's getting better. I heard a quote once on that topic from someone in Hollywood that said, you know, we've reached gender parity when there's just as many females making shitty movies as there are men. And the sentiment of that is that the women are usually there making the, you know, niche, small budget, hard work, independent. They've had to absolutely like fight for every cent and yet you know there's still so many people producing you know shitty movies on big budgets. Now, you mentioned before in your intro about privilege and that you understand that um having passion for your role and loving what you do, not everyone has to experience that.
00:22:50
Speaker
What advice would you give two women who who maybe feel like they don't have a voice, but they do have strong convictions. What sort of things in organisations that may not be as progressive as Suncorp, what sort of advice would you give to them?
00:23:06
Speaker
Take it step by step. You don't climb Mount Everest on your first try in one day. Yeah. And with that, is that about also, you know i know, having worked across lots of programs in lots of industries, whenever you create change,
00:23:22
Speaker
really it's incremental. And you would know this with with brands, you you know, if you go out there with something that nobody's seen, with a bunch of assets that nobody recognises, like that is just going to be ah burning inferno.
00:23:34
Speaker
um Whereas if you take things little by little and then the change becomes incremental, that can be yeah more helpful. Yeah, 100%. So I think, you know, take it one step one day at a time.
00:23:46
Speaker
Celebrate the wins when you have them. And then on the flip side of that, like, don't, don't sweat the small stuff. Like if you have a little setback, just pick yourself up, keep going, you know, like wallow in the annoyance of it for a minute.
00:24:01
Speaker
Cause you know, that's healthy. It's not saying don't recognize it, like wallow in the annoyance of a setback, but then don't sweat it Like, Get on with it. You've got a bigger agenda that you're trying to shift and just just stay the course even if you're taking, you know, one step forward, two steps back and then it's three steps forward and two steps back. Like that's progress.
00:24:22
Speaker
And look, if you feel the the honest reality is if you're in an organisation and you take you take that mentality and, you know, you feel like 12 months, 18 months later you're not making any progress, like let's be honest, call it. Maybe it's not the right place for you. Yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
maybe it Maybe your values aren't aligned either, like mine weren't, and it's time for you to pull a ripcord and go, life's too short to put up with this crap.
Advice for Women in Creative Careers
00:24:48
Speaker
I'm out.
00:24:48
Speaker
I'm out. Do you think that younger women entering their career... understand or even have thought about their own inherent values.
00:24:59
Speaker
I know that when you move into more senior roles, everybody talks values from organisational values, personal values. But I wonder if more conversations need to be had with younger people around actually starting to articulate their own values in a way that helps them then measure that against their experiences, certainly in their careers. Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. I mean, again, you know, I'm very fortunate. Suncorp is big on development. So I've been fortunate to be put through some amazing leadership programs.
00:25:31
Speaker
And the one thing they kind of all have in common in actual fact is kind of starting off with what's your personal purpose and what are your values and what drives and motivates you? And are you really clear on that inner monologue and inner narrative for yourself?
00:25:44
Speaker
And I think when you are forced to stop and take the time to make sure you're really clear on those things, you know, it guides you in all of the decisions that you make.
00:25:55
Speaker
And it took me a long time to have those opportunities and for people to say, do you actually know how how you feel about these things? yeah So I think, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know again, the Marketing Academy, I've put i've done a fellowship myself.
00:26:12
Speaker
um I've put a few of my team through the Scholar Program. And there's a very similar approach where it's it's all about actually what ah what's your purpose?
00:26:23
Speaker
what What are your values? and And having that as a starting point before you really start thinking about how you can lead, what impact you can create, what you want out of your career. So, yeah, gosh, if the earlier you can get onto that stuff, the better.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, it'll be even yeah more impactful. Yeah, but I think, you know, again, when I was growing up, there weren't people like you, Amber, doing amazing podcasts like this where you get to hear from other people who have come before you. And, ah you know, I think this generation has access to such a great wealth of expertise, knowledge, leadership, personal development. a fantastic opportunity.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, i agree. I want to ask you about, I suppose, your legacy. If we strip away all of the accolades and titles and and kind of business metrics, what is the one thing that you want to be remembered for in your career?
00:27:18
Speaker
For being a good human, for having a positive impact. I think about, you know, some of the relationships I have with friends who started off as people I hired. Yeah. um And i like I'm so proud of those relationships and I have some of those people that you know call me and ask me for their advice and i value that greatly.
00:27:45
Speaker
So i would say, yeah I would love people that worked with me or in my team to say she was a really good human and actually she had a positive impact on however long, on the short, the long time, whatever.
00:28:00
Speaker
You know, I ah sit on three boards and I've selected those boards very carefully because they're boards where I feel very passionately about what they're trying to contribute to the world you And i want to I want to have a positive impact on helping them make that contribution to the world. It sounds very worthy, but it's as simple as that.
00:28:20
Speaker
You know, i want to have a positive impact on the people that I spend time with. Yeah. Enjoy it and have a positive impact. Yeah. Yeah. That's the two things.
Leadership Balance and Accountability
00:28:30
Speaker
What has been your biggest lesson in leadership in your senior role? So take the last six and a half years, for example, at Southern Corp.
00:28:39
Speaker
What's been the thing that you have learnt the most or maybe reframed as the biggest curve in in your leadership style or growth? I think probably that recognition of that symbiotic relationship that we talked about before.
00:28:56
Speaker
You know, as as a leader of ah of a large team, you can either cast a shadow or shine a light. Yeah. And...
00:29:08
Speaker
You have to be, it's ah it's a balancing act, right, that you have to work on. I think you have to work on it, right? You need to be authentic and share with your team how you're feeling.
00:29:22
Speaker
But you you're also the leader, right? And no one wants to see someone panicking and having a meltdown when they're leading a team through a crisis, right? So i think it's, you know,
00:29:38
Speaker
the importance of how you show up as a leader and the accountability for how that flows through to the team is something I'm quite conscious of.
00:29:50
Speaker
And, you know, depending on the situation and the time and the day, you know, I do manage through that um and manage myself through that. um
00:30:03
Speaker
And I think that's just something you continually have to work on as a leader. Yeah. Yeah, not everyone moves from very senior executive agency life to the other side on um on client side.
00:30:19
Speaker
What's been that biggest transition in leading agency comms to leading brand teams? I think the leadership principles are the same, truth be told. Because I know you have a point of view around not, I think the quote was, not making the senior creative executives dance in the C-suite, so not putting them in front of your C-suite.
00:30:38
Speaker
So I think as a leader, you bring the same strengths, qualities, skills and and you know tools to the role, regard regardless of where it is. yeah And you might have to moderate that slightly depending on cultural nuances, role requirements, whatever. But there' there's basic sort of leadership that you is relevant anywhere.
00:30:59
Speaker
I think for me that that statement that I made was probably less about coming from a creative agency background and more about the respect and the accountability of the role of the person who's accountable for marketing in an organisation.
00:31:16
Speaker
yeah In most organisations it's the CMO, right? If you're the CMO, then you're a chief marketing officer. That's a pretty senior role. So you should have accountability and be responsible for the creative product.
00:31:32
Speaker
And, you know, the buck stops with you. Yes, absolutely. You know, you should share it with your peers in that, by the way, here's a campaign that's rolling out. Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
But you should be accountable for the creative product, for the creative effectiveness. And if anyone has done the AICD course, the role of the board is strategy and governance.
00:31:56
Speaker
yeah It's not management execution. And my perspective is that it is the role of the CMO as management execution to look at creative concepts.
00:32:09
Speaker
yeah
Role of CMOs in Creative Leadership
00:32:10
Speaker
So I don't think in any organisation, not not just mine, i don't think... creative concepts should should be going to a board to approval. The strategy that gets you there should, 100%.
00:32:24
Speaker
hundred percent Yeah, I just, I find that. kind I find that it's an interesting thing. she right there You end up with so many decision makers that it becomes paralyzing anyway. So then you actually never get executed.
00:32:42
Speaker
ah That's right. they just You've just got too many people's point of view and too many people who aren't necessarily that close to you know the insights or the consumers influencing decisions and then you end up with sort of weak execution potentially.
00:32:58
Speaker
Yeah, and the boards that I sit on, i do not ask the CMOs to come and present me their concepts. I work with them outside of board meetings if they ask for my advice on strategy.
00:33:11
Speaker
Some of them, you know, love sharing the work with me because they're passionate about and they know I am too. But I certainly don't, ah that that's not an approval as a board person. that's That's me as an outside of the boardroom, you know, ah excited to show you something, not asking a board member for approval for it. So as as a board member myself, I,
00:33:35
Speaker
I do not, I don't approve concepts. That's not my role as a board member in those organisations. But I'm happy to support the amazing marketers that do that work if they if they want to engage me on it, of course.
00:33:48
Speaker
yeah But yeah, I'm not um'm not sitting there approving their work. That's not my role as a board member. Yeah, I get that. And you mentioned a few, um using the term of the podcast, boss women, that you admire. So Carolyn Bendel, you mentioned your time at ANZ, um Christine McLaughlin.
00:34:07
Speaker
What are other women, potentially even women that you don't or haven't worked with, whom you really admire? I have so many of them. How long have you got?
00:34:18
Speaker
yeah mean I mean, you mentioned your mum and her influence. Yeah, all of them. Yeah. um Yeah. like My mum and, um you know, all of her amazing, her group, they were all they all worked and had incredible careers.
00:34:33
Speaker
And, yeah, so, you know, Suncorp, Lisa and Christine, my agency partners I mentioned, Claire and Sian, they're incredible. They're running big businesses and they are such good humans and,
00:34:44
Speaker
fantastic business partners. But outside of that, you know, I've got my girl gang and there's a couple of girl gangs actually. so some of them are industry peers that I've just developed really deep, close, meaningful relationships with. Nysa Edwards, who's at Amex.
00:35:01
Speaker
She's just one of the most fantastic humans I've ever had the good fortune to come across. Lou Barrett at News Corp. I mean, talk about a boss woman there. You know, she's the media power list number one.
00:35:13
Speaker
um and and become a very good friend. i think the beautiful thing about this industry that we work in is you have the opportunity ah to network and meet in incredible, influential, thoughtful, intelligent people.
00:35:31
Speaker
And I'm very lucky that a lot of them have become my friends and and they're my go-to to bounce things off. In my personal life, similarly, um you know, I have a ah core group of girlfriends who are all incredibly accomplished.
00:35:43
Speaker
I sit on boards with some of them, um some of them are CEO of investment funds. I won't name them. They'll be embarrassed. If they ever listen to this, they'll know who they are. But we bounce things off each other all the time.
00:35:56
Speaker
personal things, professional things, you know, we work out how we can help each other progress. So I feel incredibly fortunate with just the ah the amazing kind of family of females I have around me and and men as well, but my yeah my my girl gangs are pretty special to me.
00:36:16
Speaker
um So yeah, it's, and you know, I've been in Sydney 10 years and i I pinch myself actually often at how lucky I've been to meet such an and it' such an incredible gaggle of people who have just become such a huge and and profound part of my life.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's interesting, your experience and and other people on the podcast and just, you know, people I talk to in industry, there's a there's this misconception or that this... I suppose, narrative that women are so competitive with other women and that everyone's there to take each other down. But my personal experience has not been that. My personal experience is, of course, there are some women who are assholes, just like there's men who are assholes.
00:37:00
Speaker
But you get that with, you know, the same about making terrible movies. Like that's parody, right? But yeah in most instances, I find... women's sort of skill in developing and nurturing relationships and supporting other women have been, yeah really rewarding. And to your point, you know, having all those accomplished people around you keep gives you sort of confidence and gives you people that you can bounce ideas off. And, you know, I hope that people listening to this, if they don't have those people
00:37:32
Speaker
that they, I suppose, identify people that might want to be that person and really try and build that kind of community because it can be otherwise quite lonely, I think. Yeah, I agree. And yeah, I think go seek it out. Sometimes you've got to be a bit purposeful with those things. i didn't really have to be, yeah,
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's a game changer having those confidence and those people that you know have, you know, there's no agenda there for the support. They're just great humans and, you know, they they want to see other people do well and it's great.
Embracing Career Risks and Opportunities
00:38:05
Speaker
It's friendship, right?
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Is there anything, is there an experience or a moment that comes to life where you have really bitten big and just bloody chewed and chewed like hell? Is there something that comes to mind for you? this job!
00:38:22
Speaker
Six and a half years, you're still chewing? Well, you know, I mean, yeah, kind of. Yeah, I mean, it was a risk for me, you know, jumping client side straight away into a really big role, right? And there were a lot of people going, I know. Yeah, you certainly didn't start in your tier three, did you? Yeah, no. You just went straight up top 50 and dropped.
00:38:43
Speaker
That's it. And, you know, I know there were lots of people going, how's that going to go? Jeepers. Yeah. know so I, yeah, so I just like, it was kind of how I, how I approach life though. Right. Like, and I do love, I love the saying, you know, just bite off more. You can chew and chew like hell.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like I really wanted this job because I believed in it and I believed in the purpose of the organization. So I just thought, what have I got to lose? Right? Go for it. And I just, I went for it and I've loved every second of it. And as I said at the outset, like every job, every role, like, you know, there yeah you come up against challenges and you work your way through it. Right?
00:39:23
Speaker
But I love the people I work with. I love my team. And, you know, because of that, my remits expanded. So I started off, you know, just taking care of brand and marketing that part of the team. About a year and a half ago, I got um the opportunity to build the customer team, customer transformation team, which is accountable for all of the customer experience.
00:39:43
Speaker
And then, you know, six months ago, I got a big chunk of the corporate affairs team, corporate comms. Wow. It flabbergasts me that so many businesses still run their corporate comms like it's a completely different entity.
00:39:55
Speaker
i know, it's weird, isn't it? I mean, your employees are like your number one customers that you want to absolutely love you. So it and your other customers are just as important, you know, and of course your shareholders, but so many businesses still run them um completely independently.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I love that. I think, you know, yeah it's why I still feel so energised and, you know, and love what I do because i I keep learning, I keep growing, I keep getting these new opportunities.
00:40:24
Speaker
And again, you know, as soon as as soon as they say, do you want to have a crack at this? I'm like, hell yes. Like, let's let's go for it, you know. I want to ask, what is the best piece of career advice or just life advice that you have received as a younger person? So emerging into the market?
00:40:42
Speaker
Is there anything that jumps out for you? and Well, I don't think it was advice I was given, but the advice I would give is to keep saying yes, you know, and just going back to the earlier discussion we had about kind of how I didn't have a plan. And I just think don don't get caught up on job titles and hierarchy.
00:41:04
Speaker
Get caught up on titles. the actual role itself. What are you going to learn? what are you going to How are you going to contribute? What impact are you going to make? Is it going to help you grow?
00:41:15
Speaker
Who cares about a title? My title's been the same for six and a half years pretty much, but the role has changed significantly and I'm learning and growing. So you can advance far further sometimes by by taking an opportunity that might feel like a sideways step.
00:41:33
Speaker
You know, your progression isn't always linear. Yeah. Is there something that you wish you had have heard or read or understood better when you reflect on your younger self at just say an 18-year-old mim?
00:41:48
Speaker
new I would say, yeah, maybe don't be so hard on yourself. yeah Maybe that's one. I will probably, again, like time is our most precious commodity, right?
00:42:03
Speaker
So keep saying yes. but be choiceful in how you spend your time. Yeah. It is a common challenge around women saying yes to too many things and then leading to burnout the time they hit 40.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah. so keep saying yes to opportunities, but I think make sure that, you know, like when you look at your whole ecosystem of self, if you like, and how you spend all your time twenty four seven be thoughtful about how you spend that time and is it serving you well. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:34
Speaker
I love that. Well, we that is our core kind of questions and structure done. It's been really awesome to meet you ah not today. And i loved listening to your version of Biting Big and especially around this idea of life being short. So I love what you do and how that has shaped what has, well, what continues to be ah really stellar leadership role
Support for St Vincent's Clinic Foundation
00:42:57
Speaker
for you. and the things that really stood out for me, ah loved the the references to One House and the GATM and the synergy of those two things being initiatives that you are proud of um and how that has really driven some of your decision making, the things that stand out for you.
00:43:13
Speaker
And that sort of really leads into this idea of the symbiotic relationship between agency and client. I think that's really important. I liked the idea when we were talking about personal purpose and belief, and I suppose the earlier that women merging into their career can think about that the the better. But, you know, thinking about your legacy of positive impact and being just a good human, I think that that's sort of sums everything up. Keep saying yes, but be thoughtful to what you say yes to. Now, this podcast is produced and made 100% by women, something we're very proud of.
00:43:46
Speaker
And to show our gratitude, we donate $500 on your behalf to a chosen charity that you and you have chosen one that you're on the board of trustees for. So Vincent's Clinic Foundation. Tell us a little bit about why this um charity is important to you. and ah The team at St Vincent's Clinic Research Foundation do amazing work in trailblazing with new and different medical treatments you in a whole lot of areas, but, you know, cancer, cardio, neurology,
00:44:16
Speaker
um And it always blows my mind just that how little government funding they get, um how reliant they are on grants and donations. And the work we do on the on the trustee Board of Trustees is all around getting donations and and future funding to make sure this really important work works.
00:44:36
Speaker
keeps happening because we have these amazing people who are talk about positive impact, like spending their whole entire life trying to better um the health of of humans in our community um and they are truly inspiring and it's such a hard grind getting money ah to fund some of this really critical work. So i thank you very much for that donation, Amber, and I've really loved this conversation and I love what you're doing with this podcast, giving,
00:45:06
Speaker
you know, the world an opportunity to hear from others and and maybe be inspired and think about what they want to do. Well, thank you so much, Mim. Until next time, I'm your host, Amber Bonney, and may you bite big and chew like hell. Bye. Bye.