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October 2022 UAP Round Table with UFO Thinker & PotP - Moment of Contact Vargina doc, NASA Study & UFOIdentified Mini-Con
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October 2022 UAP Round Table with UFO Thinker & PotP - Moment of Contact Vargina doc, NASA Study & UFOIdentified Mini-Con
In this month's round table we recap the UFO Identified Mini-Con 2022 which took place at the start of the month, consider the recent announcement by NASA of it's team that will be undertaking their UAP study and also discuss the recently released James Fox documentary Moment Of Contact which has a detailed look at the Vargina UFO crash and alien capture
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Transcript
Meet the Hosts: Frank, Ash, and Greg
00:00:04
Speaker
The UFO round table. The UFO thinker in pursuit of the paranormal podcasts.
Monthly Round-Up Excitement
00:00:19
Speaker
Okay, so I'd like to welcome everybody back to the monthly Round Up Round Table with myself, Frank, of course, UFO Thinker podcast, and as always, Ash and Greg from Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast, and Ash also being the founder of UFOIdentify.co.uk. How are we doing, Chaps? Awesome. Yeah, good thanks, good thanks. Glad to be back. Another month, I hear they fly by, don't they?
00:00:47
Speaker
That's crazy. Come around very quick. Exactly.
UFO Identified Mini-Con 2022 Success
00:00:52
Speaker
So as always, we'll talk about a few different topics, things that have been going on. I'll do my introductions as usual, and then we can go around and get some different opinions and whatnot. So actually, the first thing I'd like to talk about is something that seems actually quite a long time ago, even though I just said it's flown by, which is the UFO identified Mini-Con 2022.
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, so obviously this was organized by your good self and your wonderful team. Yes, it was. And I was in attendance as were you Greg and quite a large number of other people actually from the UK side of the UFO community.
00:01:35
Speaker
Last year, the 2021 event was, you know, actually probably only about six months after I started my podcast. And it was quite a game changer for me just being able to meet up with all the people who had spoken to online and things and, you know, to actually have conversations in real life is, you know, it's really cool. And safe to say this year's event sort of stepped it up another notch with a bigger venue and a great running order on the day and
00:02:02
Speaker
just another great experience and chance to meet up with some people who've basically become friends and colleagues and whatnot throughout the UFO community in the UK.
Community and Networking at the Mini-Con
00:02:12
Speaker
So just to talk a little bit about how everything went on the day, a bit of a summary.
00:02:17
Speaker
So the venue is like a really cool old building, which has been used as a Masonic hall in the past. And all sorts of Masonic symbolism around the place, which is quite, quite nice. And a little area just inside the entrance with some table set up and people's books for sale and posters and merchandising things and through a big set of double doors. There's the bar area and a pretty large hall with a stage at the back.
00:02:44
Speaker
where the magic happened as it were and in the morning there was a series of presentations from each of the members of UFO identified followed by a bit of a break for everyone to kind of mingle and catch up and talk about what had been said and
00:03:00
Speaker
That was followed by another presentation by Sasha Christie and then another break and a podcast panel Q&A, which I also took part in myself alongside Andy and Dan from that UFO podcast. And then another presentation from Ryan Sprague from obviously Somewhere in the Sky's podcast, who many people will be familiar with as well, which finished off the day.
00:03:24
Speaker
and there's also some competitions and other activities going on throughout the day and overall just a great event and really nice to catch up with so many people in the flesh to talk about this topic.
Event Challenges and Innovations
00:03:37
Speaker
So how was it for you guys? Did you have any particular highlights of the day or any just general thoughts on it all that you'd like to share and obviously might as well start with you Ash. Yeah I mean
00:03:49
Speaker
It went well. It just sort of went smoothly. We had very, very few hiccups and issues. It was awesome. The feedback we've had has just been immense and the amount of work that goes into putting something like this on.
00:04:04
Speaker
is sometimes you think why, why, why, why are we doing this? Like the cost of it, the whole, the hours and hours of work and organizing it and the stress of getting things sorted and last minute speaker dropouts, which we had again this year, but thankfully Sasha Christie stepped up.
00:04:21
Speaker
to help us out there but when you see everyone coming together like you say we sold out for the second year in a row we were just walking around the room and looking around everyone's talking to each other everyone's having a good time actually the feedback was amazing
00:04:36
Speaker
This is why we do it. And I've had a lot of feedback saying, there's one person that said that they go to lots of conferences, but there's something different about ours somehow. I said, we're young, we're fresh, presenting new information, being presented different things, rather than just being sort of talked out all day, get out a lot of conferences. This is why we're doing it, because the whole reason why we do it is to do something different, to make it memorable for people.
Greg's First UFO Conference Experience
00:05:04
Speaker
And so when we get people like that, yeah, that's why we do it. It makes it all worth it. And like I say, we have very, very few hiccups in the day, thankfully. That's down to the hard work of the team to make it go so swimmingly. And again, to see you thanking others again in the flesh is always good.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah, it was really good fun. And it's many, many conversations with people that are listeners of the show and just people who are a host of other shows and things like that. It's just great to have that in-person connection. Obviously, yourself as well. Greg, meeting in real life for the first time. How did you find it all, mate?
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah, well, that was my first UFO conference. So I didn't really, well, I knew roughly what to expect because obviously I speak to Ash all the time and knew who was going to be speaking. But to actually be there and meet everybody and like meeting yourself Frank met a lot of people that we've spoken to over the last couple of years doing a podcast as well. People who listened to us come up and said hello.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was great. Like you said, the venue was really cool. It was, yeah, old Masonic Lodge. I suppose it could have been more fitting, but it was good to be able to come through from where the tables, I was predominantly, had our little podcast table set up for merch and whatnot, and to meet people, and met all the people around me, which was great, and then to go in and listen to everybody.
00:06:39
Speaker
was was really cool and it like like Ash had just said about the fact that it's young people
00:06:47
Speaker
I will class myself as young for this conversation. But young people in attendance, and you guys, Ash, with the team, young, like, I say new to the scene, it's not, but like a fresh approach to it. New people, not the usual suspects of people speaking at these things. In fact, Ryan was there, had the podcast Q&A, which was great. Some good questions come from people.
00:07:17
Speaker
And to meet loads of people who I've seen online and I only know them by their Twitter handle or whatnot. It's like trying to figure out who they were by their profile picture.
00:07:29
Speaker
It was really cool and everybody seemed to love it. Everybody seemed to love it. And I can't wait to have a load of free books from that lady. So I haven't started reading them yet, but that was a bonus as well. But also from like the podcast side of things, me and Ash learned a lot of stuff just about selling merch at these places.
00:07:52
Speaker
for example. So we only had a certain amount of sizes and colors, and people wanted other ones. So we've adapted our website to be able to do all that kind of stuff in the future. So we've learned a lot just for the podcast bits from there. But it's just great to meet everyone. Great to meet everyone.
00:08:12
Speaker
really was and to see that many like-minded people in one room, which I'm absolutely sure you could have got at least another 20 odd people in there easy, at least another few rows, but it wasn't overcrowded.
Future Event Plans and Growth
00:08:24
Speaker
It was nice. It was nice. Yeah, absolutely. It's like when I went to the first one in 2021 and same sort of thing for this. I didn't know what to expect. That was the first time I'd ever been to a UFO event.
00:08:39
Speaker
And I was kind of a bit like, or I let myself in for, but I was like so pleasantly surprised with the kind of caliber of conversation. You know what I mean? It wasn't kind of wacky out there stuff is, you know, people having real rational conversations about, you know, trying to approach this scientifically and get to the bottom of it. And, um, I mean, this one, I spoke to some super like credentialed people as well. You know, people who are like, um,
00:09:04
Speaker
you know, like former and current members of the military, police officers, things like that, scientists, really credentialed academics, you know, sort of thing. So it's, it's amazing the sorts of people you could you can run into and spoke to some people about some things that are in the works as well, that people are going to be bringing into fruition. I don't want to say too much because a lot of it's all sort of still, you know, in the pipeline and things like that. But yeah, some super exciting things to keep an eye on that came off the back of it.
00:09:34
Speaker
as well. And yeah, great venue. I thought it was a good place as well. And is there any plans for like future events? Is it going to be perhaps out of that place or potentially a different location? What have you got in the pipeline? So I love the venue. I like the separate room for the stores, but the way it's still all sort of together.
00:09:57
Speaker
large car park although there are some parking issues on the day but for next year we have started planning a couple of events and all I'm going to say is that we are going bigger
00:10:12
Speaker
We have big, big plans, and it's scary, but we know we can pull it off. And the last two years have shown that we, last year, I've never even been to a conference before, and we've put in our own conference on. We had no idea what we were doing.
00:10:28
Speaker
as we totally winged it and we had a great day. Then this year we kind of knew what we were doing. We had more time to plan. Bigger venue, smashed it again. Next year we've got a whole year that we're going to be planning it for and we're going bigger again. And that's going to be one of the events for next year. A couple of very exciting things. Again, talk about stuff that's new, stuff that's fresh. Something else we're going to be doing next year is going to be just that.
00:10:54
Speaker
And hopefully soon we can actually announce what that is.
Building Community with Skywatch Events
00:10:58
Speaker
But we can't just yet, so we've got everything finalized. But that is in the planning stages. I'm looking forward to that. Also just on a personal note, I gave, like you say at the start, the UFO Identify team gave a presentation each. I did like a 15 minute sort of presentation the first time I'd ever sort of stood in front of people in public speaking. It was absolutely terrifying.
00:11:21
Speaker
But I think that went well. I got good feedback on the, on my little presentation. And I think, and that's spurring me on to develop my sort of talk, my presentation, and then to give longer ones, maybe travel around the country doing my own little talks with the UFO Identify team. And well, I guess the whole, I didn't get that much time to stress about it because I was stressing about the whole conference itself. It's time to think about, oh my God, I got to stand up in front of
00:11:49
Speaker
80 people in a minute and talk about something that I hope they're going to listen to. But yeah, that went well. And hopefully from a personal side of you, me developing my sort of giving talk side of it as well.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I really enjoyed your talk and all of the other members of UFO identified as well. I thought it was a really good series of little mini presentations. And I really enjoyed taking part in the Q&A. Like you say, I mean, I've never done anything like that with this topic in particular. I mean, obviously I do music. I've been on stage quite a few hundred times over the years and things, but it's not in that way. Having a mic in front of me is a bit different. But again, like you say, just really enjoyed it.
00:12:34
Speaker
And the feedback was great and really encouraging to do more of that stuff as time goes along. And you guys also last year did some Skywatch events as well, like smaller meetups for people to check out, just have a look at what's going on up there sort of thing and have some conversations. Have you got any plans for any more of that sort of thing in the future? Yeah, well this weekend just gone. We had a Skywatch out in Liverpool.
00:13:00
Speaker
We had new people joining us again, because every time we do these events, we always seem to have new people joining us, sort of expanding that group. Obviously, we go to different places around the North West, Liverpool, Manchester. We also had a journalist joining us this time who came over from Denmark. So basically, he built his trip around coming on our Skywatch with us and meeting us.
00:13:22
Speaker
and like featuring us in this little article thing that he's doing in Denmark. That was pretty cool. But yeah, we generally have something planned every month, either a Skywatch, a small like mini, mini version of the mini comic, it's just...
00:13:38
Speaker
You hire out a function room, you have one speaker, and with a couple of hours in the evening, people come around, listen to a presentation, have a few drinks, get to know each other, just on a smaller scale. And we also just have social get-togethers, just meeting a pub, spend a couple of hours, have something to eat, something to drink, and meet other members of, well, the UFO-identified sort of Facebook community. Just come and join us in a pub.
00:14:04
Speaker
So at least once a month we'll have something going on around the North West so people can join us. It's just about building that community and giving a place where people can come to meet each other and learn stuff together. And then like I said, we have the big events a couple of times a year. Yeah, excellent. I can't recommend it enough for anybody who's in the North of England in particular. You know, anybody who's local and can make it along well worth making the trip.
00:14:33
Speaker
So anything you want to add about any of that, Greg, before we move on? No, no, I must say, though, that with your presentation, Ash, the fact that you presented the information in slightly different ways where you were talking about
00:14:51
Speaker
where the most sightings were, but then also that compared to where the most sightings were per capita, which was really interesting because you go, wow, obviously there's loads in London.
00:15:06
Speaker
I can't remember the detail, actually, don't shoot me. But then when you go per capita, it's all changed around. So the ones that you expected to be, yes, you're going to see a lot of people with sight in sort of around the London area. But actually,
00:15:22
Speaker
per capital per 1,000 people or however you measured it, forgive me, was it changed the whole dynamic of the data. So that was really good that you were able to present it in a way that
00:15:39
Speaker
made sense and was a bit more realistic because I would expect thousands of people to see them in London but if you switched up the data a bit and actually gave a better picture of where the sightings were actually taking place so yeah that was good. Yeah I wasn't too sure because obviously my presentation was around sort of the stats and the figures and I was like how much people are going to be wanting numbers thrown at them
00:16:05
Speaker
So it was a bit like, oh, our bonus is going to be for people to sit and watch. But I say we try and present the information in a bit of a different way to give people a general overview.
00:16:17
Speaker
I'm glad you enjoyed it and I got quite a bit of good feedback about that we're seeing because this is information I don't think anybody else is presenting in the UK and so it's good to obviously we do have our database that we talked about before it's just a way of getting that information out there in a way that people can sort of understand it and see what is going on in the UK which is what we try to do as a group that's why we do it.
Ryan Sprague's Impactful Presentation
00:16:41
Speaker
And I must say, Ryan's presentation as well, everybody sort of was in the room for that last presentation. And that was great. That was really great.
00:16:55
Speaker
I loved the fact that he was talking about the effect on people as well as the sightings themselves. That was really good. And I think everybody was just hanging on his word to what he was going to say next. So that was great. I really enjoyed that. So yeah, it was a great day. And the podcast panel was great.
00:17:14
Speaker
it was just a really good day and it seemed to fly by and I know because I crashed at your house the night before and we'd done like a paranormal investigation the night before in the basement of Ash's house then we're up super early to get all the gear over to the hall so yeah it was a mad 24 hours but it was great absolutely great
00:17:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think a good time was had by all and very much looking forward to the next one. Definitely. So moving on to some a bit more recent events, actually something fairly big that's just pretty much happened this last week is this announcement from NASA.
NASA's New UAP Study
00:17:58
Speaker
of the 16 scientists who are actually going to be taking part into this study into how best to approach the UAP topic. Now we'd spoken about this on the round table a little while back when it was first announced and the difference now is they've actually announced the commencement of the study and the actual 16 scientists who are actually going to be
00:18:21
Speaker
you know taking part and safe to say when we spoke about it a while back we weren't exactly optimistic that we were going to get any significant answers from from this but the fact that the scientists have now been announced is sort of a step further towards you know this effort coming to fruition and you know whatever comes of this nine month study could lead to further studies by NASA and others and
00:18:45
Speaker
The study itself is expected to take nine months as I say, and I think the important thing to remember about this study is that it's not setting out to look into the topic and figure out what's going on with UAP, like where the origins of where these things are coming from, what it actually is.
00:19:02
Speaker
It's actually just a case of the purpose of the study is to come up with basically a framework of how to actually best scientifically approach this topic. I think there's a lot of confusion about that, especially because NASA's name is attached to it. It's sort of being discussed a lot in the mainstream and people are sort of thinking that NASA are going to spill the beans or something in nine months time. It's not necessarily that straightforward.
00:19:26
Speaker
So I think best not to expect any direct answers coming from this but even the fact that NASA is involved in the UFO topic, the UAP topic in any capacity has obviously generated headlines all around the world and there's got a lot of people talking which can't be a bad thing.
00:19:44
Speaker
And there are, you know, within the UFO community, though, quite a few people who are a bit concerned about NASA's approach here, to borrow an expression from Dave Smethurst, who's with us in spirit today, but not in person. Dave said,
00:20:02
Speaker
It's a bit like going shopping without checking what you've got in the cupboards first. I thought that was absolutely hilarious. And it basically sums up how NASA probably are already sitting on some of the best possible data for understanding what's happening with the UFO mystery. And then they embark on a study to how best to look into the topic. It does seem a little bit bizarre. But the other thing is, and this is one of the things that bothered me a little bit about this recent announcement, is that NASA put out a tweet
00:20:31
Speaker
which was a three-tweet long thread announcing the scientists involved etc and the third tweet out of the three said there is no evidence to suggest that UAP are extraterrestrial in origin now that really did seem a bit bizarre to me
00:20:47
Speaker
you know to be putting together a study to figure out how best to look into the mystery and framing the announcement of that study and the personnel involved in it with a statement that's seemingly designed to cast doubt on one of the possible conclusions as to where the thing's actually originated from.
Extraterrestrial Dismissal Concerns
00:21:03
Speaker
Surely that doesn't really seem to suggest that they're willing to follow the data wherever it leads. Now perhaps though that statement is not reflective of the approach that they're going to take but it does seem like a bit of a
00:21:14
Speaker
a poorly worded statement to make right at the beginning and not the best start and doesn't exactly fill me with hope about the effort overall.
00:21:23
Speaker
But having said that, I do tend to think that the fact that NASA are involved at all and willing to put their name behind it in any way will probably have an overall net positive effect in terms of the public taking this more seriously and whatnot. And academics and scientists getting involved in general can't be a bad thing. So I don't want to be too negative. So what do you guys think? How about you, Greg?
00:21:46
Speaker
So, like you mentioned, with NASA sort of throwing their name behind it, that's got to be a good thing. For people like myself, because I know I mentioned this on previous roundtables, that I'm not the resident expert in UFOs, or I think I'm more of the layperson. So to see that NASA have put their name behind it, I think apart from the US congressional hearings, I think NASA's name has got to be up there with kind of giving it mass appeal.
00:22:16
Speaker
regardless of what the outcome is or the people in the UFO community, what they think. I think from the general public, that is a headline grabber already. And one of the guys on it is a former astronaut, so he must potentially have seen stuff. But they can't say that they... So going back to your point about the fact that they must be sitting on loads of stuff,
00:22:42
Speaker
which undoubtedly they are, because they're the only ones essentially up there. And they control all the video feeds and all that kind of stuff and all the communications. But for them to come out, they have to say, we got to look at it from the ground up again. Because if they come out and say that they've got all this evidence,
00:23:06
Speaker
There's going to be a lot of uproar. And I was watching a documentary a little bit earlier for some of the guys we're speaking to later on. And one of the guys mentions the fact that if they mention anything before like 2004 and the tic-tac and everything like that,
00:23:27
Speaker
like we've said before, they're basically saying that they've been telling us alive for the last 50-odd years and they can't do it because as soon as they do, it all goes pear-shaped for all the people above and down. They have to essentially
00:23:47
Speaker
draw a line in the sand and say nothing happened that we knew of before 2004 or whatever, since the Nimitz and the Tic Tac. So them saying they are sat on it and I genuinely, I think we
00:24:02
Speaker
or three of us would agree, they've got to be sat on some real nice sort of Gucci stuff that people would tear their arms off to see. For them to come out and admit that, they can't. As much as somebody's there going, we've got all this stuff. So that's my opinion. I think they have to pretend publicly that they've got nothing and they're starting from afresh. Otherwise, it
00:24:32
Speaker
It smacks of a lot of lying all over. Never a straight answer, as they say. Don't you, Ash? Yeah, it's like you say, Frank, about the statement they put about the extraterrestrial side of it. It's like, why even didn't have to mention it there? So why are they bringing it up when it is a possible explanation? It has to be. And they're sort of saying straight away,
00:25:00
Speaker
You're just not going to get a fair crack of the whip if you're saying that from the starting blocks. No one asked you about it. You didn't have to say that. Why are you saying it? I don't know. Do we know what data? Because he mentioned about 2004, so where the basic US government like 2004 is where it started. That's where we're going from. Is NASA the same? Is that...
00:25:22
Speaker
I think it's really this study is just to actually figure out what data to look at. So they're going to be sort of, they're not actually going to be analyzing like a chunk of data and going through different sightings and things. They may be doing that as a bit of a, you know, to pick a few as an example of like break stuff down and figure out, you know, conclusions of how well the analysis of it goes or whatever.
00:25:45
Speaker
I think that the whole point of this study really is just to actually, you know, put a framework together of what data you can look at. And I think they're actually trying to focus on unclassified data as well. That's been quite a big thing. Yeah, that's why that's why you say I'm on NASA's website now, it says the study will focus solely on unclassified data. So basically, they're there, they're just going to look at everything that's in the public domain. And it gets them out of a sticky situation.
00:26:16
Speaker
I mean, it is a step forward, no matter which way you sort of, how you think about what you might do with it. It's got it in the public eye, of course. It's more mainstream news on a scientific level. It's helping take it away from the sort of, to the full hat, whereas it is making it more serious. And like I say, it's just making a framework, at least then going forward.
00:26:43
Speaker
They have that basis. So it does say that there is going to be more studies in the future. This is like the baseline study in the future. There's going to be more based around. This is the baseline. Now we've gone into the next thing. So yes, I guess it is. It is a good thing. It is good for us. And it's just, I guess it's got to wait and see what actually happens.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that this framework as to what data to look at and how to analyze that data and how to basically kind of allow scientists and academics to approach this topic could be used then by NASA for like a phase two where they actually go right.
00:27:20
Speaker
Now we know what we're looking at, how we're going to go about looking at it, let's actually get all that data and go through it and analyze it and have another maybe year-long phase two aspect of it where we actually look at this, draw conclusions from it, and then present our findings to the public and things. That would be good. But I suppose it's just a bit of a long game, isn't it really? We've got to wait nine months from to even figure out what they're going to look at and then- And that was more of the need.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. I think it's a relatively limited amount that they're going to be using for the nine month study as well. I think they said a maximum of 100,000, which sounds a lot, but it's not really in the grand scheme of things of what you can actually achieve to look into this. When you consider how much the Galileo projects have got and things like that, it's much bigger budgets.
00:28:11
Speaker
And yeah, but like the end of the day, you know, the proof is going to be in the pudding, isn't it? You know, we'll see in nine months what they come up with with this. And I think overall, like everybody has been saying, I think around the round table just now, NASA's name being attached to it is kind of a good thing overall. I saw a clip the other day.
00:28:31
Speaker
It was one of those morning news programs, like this morning or whatever they call it these days. And one of the presenters who clearly had no idea about the UFO topic was talking about, and he said, well, NASA's looking into it now, you know? And it was like, it just hit me that, wow, OK, yeah, NASA's name being attached to this is going to make people sit up and listen, isn't it? It makes it easier for people like us when people ask us, oh, what do you do?
00:28:57
Speaker
Like, well, they do start sort of being that sort of typical response, like, well, NASA are doing it. US government are doing it. Like, this isn't a joke. It is a serious thing. It does help people like us. Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:12
Speaker
I mean, when you think the alternative is NASA completely denying any involvement or any interest in it, like, has been going on for quite a long time, you know, that just subconsciously kind of, you know, delegitimizes the whole thing, doesn't it? Like you say, you're having that conversation with somebody and they say, oh, well, what are NASA doing about it? And you've got, oh, well, NASA just aren't even involved at all and just won't, won't even touch the topic. Doesn't look good though, does it?
00:29:37
Speaker
at least at least now you don't have to say that anymore now it's a case of well that's we're actually fully engaged with this the commission to study and blah blah blah so yeah overall less i'm trying to focus on the positives even though there are a few warning signs there and that kind of thing but we'll we'll see how it all pans out won't we
00:29:55
Speaker
A lot of it is just a waiting game.
Public Discussion and Legitimacy Growth
00:29:58
Speaker
We can't do anything apart from just keep it in the public eye. But isn't it good that we are able to have this discussion? We're mentioning NASA, we're mentioning the congressional hearings and the US government saying that UFOs are real or UAPs are real. Whereas before the New York Times article, we wouldn't have had this conversation at all.
00:30:24
Speaker
And even up to the last couple of years, you probably wouldn't have had a meaningful conversation about the likes of the US government and NASA being involved in trying to figure out what UAPs are. And then all these pilots coming forward. It's an interesting time.
00:30:43
Speaker
It is indeed an interesting time. So yeah, well, next up, let's move
James Fox's Film 'Moment of Contact'
00:30:49
Speaker
on. Let's talk about the moment of contact film by James Fox, which just came out and is available to watch online now.
00:30:59
Speaker
We mentioned this in the last roundtable and we were kind of excited to all talk about it a bit. So anybody listening can check that out. I think it's available on no streaming platforms. I watched it on the Amazon Prime video where it's available. $9.99.
00:31:14
Speaker
that's the price to buy the film and it's one of them where you buy the film as well you can watch it as many times as you like it's not like a rent for 24 hours thing like some films have been been doing nothing wrong with that but it's I think it's nice that you can buy it and then go back and watch it you know whenever you like
00:31:31
Speaker
And I actually thought that's fairly reasonably priced, to be honest. Again, some of the independent films charge twice that amount and more. So I think considering the work James Fox puts into his films, I was quite happy to pay that. So the film centres around James Fox visiting Virginia, Brazil.
00:31:50
Speaker
to investigate a case that took place there and 1996 I believe multiple witnesses observed UFO which looked like it was struggling to stay aloft before crashing and then there were multiple reports of living beings which escaped the wreckage and actually wandered around the town
00:32:11
Speaker
before being captured by the military and the witnesses actually reported witness intimidation and there were witnesses who reported having seen this creature being captured and taken to military facilities in hospitals and things to be analysed and there was some pretty compelling witness testimony in general from quite a large number of people who saw things
00:32:34
Speaker
So, as I say, we discussed this last month and there were rumours swirling around about potential actual footage of the being, maybe even being included in the film, but as it turns out, that didn't happen. We kind of all predicted that it probably wouldn't do and there may have been some elements of a little bit of hype in there perhaps with that sort of thing.
00:32:57
Speaker
But there were some witnesses who had never spoken on camera before including a man who saw the actual UFO crash and was then intimidated by the military and kept silent for all this time and was very emotional when opening up and giving his testimony as to what he saw. Also the three young girls who were often associated with this case who are now adults
00:33:21
Speaker
and have maintained for all these years that all three of them saw the being in a patch of waste ground. So yeah, a very interesting watch. So I think you guys have both seen the film, if I'm not mistaken. What were your thoughts on it? And we'll go with you, Ash, if you're up for that.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, the amount of testimony and witnesses is just incredible. I had no idea. There's that many people involved, that many different, so like you got government people, you got like the firefighters, you've got like to a hospital staff, like the x-ray sort of operator guy, all the people that were involved and then told to basically this didn't happen.
00:34:04
Speaker
I mean, it is all testimony, obviously, but that much of it which James put across in this film is just astounding. And when you're watching the witnesses talk about it,
00:34:18
Speaker
Like I said, you can see the emotion, like the guy on the hill, when they finally found the place where he remembered seeing it come down, he talked about the White House. Like, you know there that he's not lying. He saw, whatever it was, he saw something. And obviously it was silenced after. And you see him sort of finally like, he's told someone for the first time, and that someone believes him. And it's mad because I've got a colleague who's Brazilian. And I sort of asked him the other day, I was like,
00:34:48
Speaker
You live anywhere near Virginia, where you're from originally. And he was like, where abouts is that? He's like, what name? And he's like, oh, with the UFO. He didn't know the town until he realized it was a UFO town. And it was a big story at the time as well. You know the news and the papers and that back in 96, was it?
00:35:09
Speaker
I think so, yeah, unless I'm fair. It was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the, yeah, I mean, we were going to talk a lot about the different parts, but the point is, you mentioned sort of the footage. I've seen the last few days of the last week, some photos from Reddit that are claiming to be the creature, like generally photos of it in like a box. Yeah. It's on Twitter at the moment as well. It's on Twitter as well. I sort of read it in the past week and don't know if it's been totally debunked.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah, it looks like the description that people, the girls were given, and the people were given. If you look at the iconic sort of, I say iconic, I remember this story. I was 19 when this, this all happened. And I remember specifically that picture of the crouching alien.
00:35:59
Speaker
or entity or whatever it might be that the girls drew or they got someone to draw. And I remember that specifically. And then to watch this and see all these other people involved, like you just mentioned, Dash, I didn't know the rest of it. And then I saw that picture yesterday, I think it was, and today on Twitter.
00:36:21
Speaker
and it was in a box which they mention in the documentary that it was in this box and its eyes look very similar but everybody alleges it's 100% real and genuine but
00:36:39
Speaker
Well the thing is not wanting to be the one to rain on the bonfire sort of thing, but I have been looking into that a little bit and I've seen apparently there were some other shots as well from a TV show like recreation
00:36:57
Speaker
which apparently that was part of a scene recreating. I think it was a Brazilian TV show recreating what happened during the case. I'm not sure exactly if that's legit, but I did see it was an account on Twitter that goes through and debunks cases and stuff, so obviously whether or not it's true, I don't know.
00:37:18
Speaker
I did see a few other people commenting on it. And it seemed as though that there may be something to that. But there has been a real frenzy of all kinds of different images and videos and things like that being discussed. And there's one particular area that I'm trying to keep an eye on, which is, I don't know if you guys have seen this one. There's a guy called Roni Vernet. I don't know how you pronounce his name, unfortunately.
00:37:47
Speaker
But he's on Twitter, and he's been speaking about a researcher, Vittorio Pachicini, who's a Brazilian researcher, and apparently he's been giving interviews saying that he himself has actually seen. In 2012, he was shown a clip of the footage.
00:38:08
Speaker
and which apparently exists of the entity, the being. And I'm just going through the tweaks here, I've got some screenshots of them. He was given permission to watch a 35 second video of the being and
00:38:25
Speaker
The description of the creature was the same as that given by the girl's thin arm and the chest like a seven-year-old disproportionately large head, immense red eyes that protruded from the sockets. And apparently the creature was kind of struggling and struggling to get to its feet. And they tried to give it some fruits and vegetables, none of which were accepted by the being. And after 35 seconds, the video basically ends.
00:38:53
Speaker
And according to this, the patricini, who's, like I said, a Brazilian UFO researcher, genetic analysis showed ancestry with human DNA, and then all of the captured creatures were sent off to the US.
00:39:09
Speaker
And apparently it is Patucini himself who's in contact with James Fox to try to negotiate about this footage coming out. And supposedly there is some negotiations taking place that the footage itself will be a front page story in the New York Times. Now, again, is that all legit? We don't know. But what I do know is that James Fox himself has been retweeting that account. So he obviously is behind this person sort of thing.
00:39:38
Speaker
there is a lot of talk about you know footage there's a lot of people that have come out with footage but that does seem like one to keep an eye on but the footage itself is not out yet it's all just talk at this point in time we'll have to wait and see won't we what do you reckon you think we're gonna see that on the new york times wow who knows five years ago would you have seen the expose on this nimits thing and the tic-tac and everything probably not but
00:40:06
Speaker
This particular, the way James Fox presents the information, and like Ash said, there's a lot of witness
Varginha Case Witness Testimonies
00:40:14
Speaker
testimony. It's pretty much all witness testimony. Interviewing people, blurred out faces where they're saying, we don't want to be on camera. They're like doctors.
00:40:25
Speaker
I think the way that they use the drone footage as well, being an ex-drone pilot, I recognize some good drone footage when I see it. And it was good that they were up quite high above and they were able to sort of point out where the alien was in, where the blockades were. And it was when you say it was in this Brazilian town,
00:40:51
Speaker
I have a picture, I live in a town, I have a picture of that in my head, but when you see it on the documentary and the people that didn't want to speak about it, one guy says that he thanked you for the opportunity of getting it out. Things like that, it's just like, you know what? There wasn't a single person on there
00:41:17
Speaker
for me that seemed like they weren't telling the truth. Everybody seemed to be genuine. That guy who was crying and was really emotional is like, I haven't made a single penny off this. So it's not about the money for me. It's like, why would I be embarrassed for 20, 26 years when I mentioned it to my friends and family and they'll laugh at me? Why would I do that? So then you kind of go, yeah, why would you do that? You just shut your mouth and get on with your life. But
00:41:48
Speaker
The fact that somebody died, they all described, so one of them who captured the alien, why you do that? And I put his arms around this alien and grabbed it. And he was covered in this sort of smell and this oily stuff. And then he later died. They all said the same smell, like a sulphury ammonia smell.
00:42:10
Speaker
and how it sort of engraved itself where like days afterwards they could still smell it like to the point where I think the hospital already had to close that part of the hospital for a few days because of the smell and couldn't have people going in there yeah and the same smell at the the crest site and where the girls were
00:42:27
Speaker
Why are they all reporting the same thing? That's got to hold legs. And one of the specific, it seemed to be affected by the heat and it couldn't stand the heat, which I thought was a really
00:42:45
Speaker
weirdly specific kind of description of something to say that it seemed to be struggling with the heat. That's not the kind of detail you generally, or I wouldn't think to think of when you think there's this alien walking around this neighborhood in Brazil struggling with the midday sun. It was like three o'clock in the afternoon or something like that. It wasn't even nighttime.
00:43:13
Speaker
And there was two creatures, they captured one early on and one later on. The towns even got a UFO, a flying saucer shaped monument in the town, which I thought was brilliant. They have embraced the whole thing. Obviously he's good for tourism. He's looking at it from that side as well. I don't know if I'd want to go there though. It didn't really look like a very touristy kind of place though, did it?
00:43:40
Speaker
We have Rendlesham, you think how famous that incident is? Nobody got his little bit of metal in a forest. You have to go find it. They proper embrace where something happened. I was expecting that when I went to Rendlesham.
00:43:57
Speaker
I was like, I went to a local shop and I was like, is there any shops around here or anything selling or information about UF also? I was like, no, no, just that little tiny walk in the forest. That was literally it. At least they do embrace. This is a story we've had. This is something that allegedly happened.
00:44:13
Speaker
And they embraced it, which was awesome. One thing I did like, when they got there, they held up a sign saying, do you know anything about the UFO? Come and speak to us. And people were just like queuing up to speak to him, which I thought was absolutely brilliant. Alongside that guy, Lopez, or Lops, or something they called him, and they were trying to, he was like, get away from me.
00:44:40
Speaker
scale away with bullets or some words to that effect. I'll remove you with bullets. I'll remove you with bullets. Yeah. Pretty, pretty scary little phrase that isn't it? I don't fancy being removed with bullets. Thank you. And it was the fact that nobody was trying to sensationalize their story.
00:44:56
Speaker
I think that's what got me the most. None of them sensationalised what they saw. Like, you haven't got these guys going up, yeah, there's this big thing come crashing down and we were probed and we were taking aboard this ship. It's all like the smaller parts of the main picture. It's that bit. They had evolved in that bit. He was involved in this side of it and then we clipped it all together.
00:45:19
Speaker
I'd basically like to say we're deep with the footage from the above view, showing you where this was, where the blockade was, where they saw it, where it was captured, and how close it was to everything. Yeah, this happened. Yeah, and it was all in quite a smallish area, but a lot of people involved. And like you say, it was just like little small stories that intersected each other.
00:45:43
Speaker
create this big picture, I thought it was a really well made documentary, actually, I wasn't entirely sure what I was going to see. But I was, I watched the whole thing, pretty much straight off, and was just like, that was really interesting. I learned a lot. And even though majority of it was a subtitle, it's Brazilian, and nobody really spoke English, it was
00:46:06
Speaker
fascinating really fascinating i think james fox generally has a way with his films of just getting the tone just right and i was thinking i mean i've i've seen you know all of his other films and it's kind of like what i think of as like the gold standard in terms of like ufo documentaries you know that and a couple of others as well but um for me he just gets the balance you know just right it's not too kind of
00:46:30
Speaker
you know x files music and sort of like fake footage all the time to make it look more you know grandiose kind of thing and but with this i must admit i was thinking before i watched it you know this is one of those cases where we're talking about like live beans and stuff how's it how's he going to be able to approach this with that sort of like but i thought he did he somehow managed to get the balance you know really good in that regard and
00:46:54
Speaker
One thing that I thought was really helpful is like you guys were saying, the drone footage of the areas and the recreations as well. But really importantly, they were labeled as recreation. It says on the screen, this is a recreation. This is not anything of the original footage or anything like that. And that was very clearly marked as when something was an artistic recreation and when it was, you know,
00:47:17
Speaker
something that may have been, you know, real footage and things like that. And the recreations were done very cleverly as well. Like there was where the crash site was, they actually showed what the craft would have looked like in that landscape and things like that. I just thought it was very tastefully done. And yeah, overall, definitely well worth a watch, I would say.
00:47:38
Speaker
yeah definitely it wasn't hyped up footage they weren't sort of building to this crescendo of this anti-climatic bit of footage it was nice storytelling and i think it like we just said about the nasa legitimizing stuff us congressional stuff this actually
00:47:59
Speaker
gave a human side to what essentially was an absolutely abnormal experience for the whole town.
Compelling UFO Documentary Review
00:48:10
Speaker
It's hard for me when I was looking at it, when you take a sceptical approach to it, trying to find those holes,
00:48:19
Speaker
I mean, obviously, there's some there. There's a couple of parts where I thought, eh, he could have just got that from something else and built it into his story. Like, probably the only part for me that did that was when he was at the crash site. I know what you're going to say. He picked up the sort of piece of it and then screwed it into a ball, then it came flat out. You're thinking, Wozwell, that's exactly how they described the material of Wozwell. Has he just incorporated that?
00:48:48
Speaker
it too slowly. But then like I said, Greg, why for 26 years when it's not like, it's not like he's gone to the papers, we want books about it, I'll try to publicize it. This fact is just, this is what happened. That's it. Like 26 years ago, this is what happened. I don't think he's going to say he kept the pocket. He said he put it in his pocket. He's like, are you going to show us it? He put it in your pocket. He's all got it. No, he didn't. Which is a shame.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, I thought it was a great film. I mean, didn't sort of revolutionize the way I look at the UFO topic or anything like that. But I think, you know, if you've not been familiar with this case, and I wasn't, I'd heard bits and bats about the case. But I think we've mentioned, I think you were the same. I should sort of thought, well, actually, I'm going to hold off looking into this case, because I'll, you know, be able to sort of absorb it all fully when I watch the film. And I did the same thing. I've been intrigued about this case for
00:49:42
Speaker
I must be well over a year that I've heard James Fox talking about he was working on this or was going to be working on it and so on. Like I said, it doesn't completely change the way I think about the topic. There wasn't any massive revelations in there or anything, but if you want a really good overview of the case, I think he nailed it in that regard and anybody who wants to find out more about the case, perfect place to go. I think definitely a good one to show to someone.
00:50:09
Speaker
who's maybe a bit on the edge, maybe a bit, yeah, it's all a bit, it's all a lot of baloney. As long as they can sit through the Portuguese and having to read the subtitles, I think it is a good one to show, sort of, someone that does have an interest to say, these are the types of cases that are happening that people probably aren't aware of in the mainstream. So it is really, really good one. Definitely. Yeah, so I thought I'd add a little bit about what's actually coming up pretty soon as well.
00:50:39
Speaker
which will probably likely be a part of what we're going to be discussing on next month's roundtable. I quite liked how we did that last time with the moment of contact and then talked about it this time, so I thought we'll keep the theme going. So there is... It's all homework today. Exactly, yeah. This is your assignment, everybody. So, yeah, the main one, I suppose, is the October the 31st report in the States.
00:51:04
Speaker
So part of the requirements of the previous UAP-related legislation from previous years required a report to Congress from the UAP office, which currently goes by the name of ARRO, the Old Domain Anomaly Resolution Office.
00:51:21
Speaker
And this report is also required to be unclassified, but perhaps with a classified portion. So it's not exactly clear that it's going to be released to the public or what aspects of it will be released to the public, but going off the previous times, it most likely will, something will come out to the public in some kind of public report.
00:51:43
Speaker
There's been a lot of discussion about what that report might contain. If you take kind of a broad view, it's safe to say that opinions are pretty mixed on that, all the way from the possibility that this report will go further than ever before in acknowledgement of a non-human intelligence and an admission that sends to systems of picked up objects that can't be explained by human technology.
00:52:05
Speaker
all the way to others predicting that there'll actually be an attempt to walk back on some of the previous progress as part of a push to deepen the secrecy. And that actually the transparency with the public might actually be reduced and there might be efforts to do that. So at the end of the day, the proof is going to be in the pudding on that one. And at the time that this episode goes out, the report will either already be out or be due out imminently. Also,
00:52:34
Speaker
I think speculation and hype have reached an absolute fever pitch recently on Twitter, which to be quite honest, I'm taking with a generous pinch of salt.
00:52:44
Speaker
And a lot of the hype is kind of coming from anonymous Twitter accounts claiming to have knowledge of some imminent big reveal. And, you know, sources confirm that a big reveal is coming in the next 24 hours and all this type of thing. Well, there you go. And there's various accounts associated with and whatnot. But yeah, some of this is tied to the October 31st report.
00:53:07
Speaker
of the Halloween report. And some of it is tied to entity images from the Virginia case that we talked about earlier and all the various people that are discussing that online. And there's also a lot of speculation that some of the other relatively small incidents that have happened recently are all tied together, somehow suggesting big things going on behind the scenes leading up to a world-changing disclosure in the next few days, quite literally.
00:53:37
Speaker
And much as I'd be fascinated and I'd love that to be the case, I do tend to think that it is probably a bit overblown.
00:53:43
Speaker
And people sort of finding patterns in the chaos rather than some kind of elaborate disclosure conspiracy behind the scenes. I mean, these are exciting times where good progress towards government transparency on this topic is being made. But I think sometimes certain folks take it a bit far, over hype a little bit, tying things together based on a bit of a loose connections and a lot of hearsay. Couple of examples of that.
00:54:11
Speaker
at the meeting between the UK Defense Secretary Ben Wallace and Lloyd Austin, his counterpart in the United States. Probably, I think, has more to do with Ukraine and Russia, but people are trying to say that that's somehow UAP-related, and there's not really any evidence that that's the case. And there's also the Mars NASA photograph, which, again, I actually think looks really interesting, but to suggest that that's part of a drip-drip of information leading up to a big bombshell that's coming. I don't know, seems a bit of a stretch.
00:54:41
Speaker
I'm waiting more info and expert analysis on that one before jumping to conclusions. There was also, we were talking about this to the day, Greg, Obama's comments on aliens and UAP in a recent video, which is absolutely fascinating to hear a former president comment on UFOs more openly than ever before.
00:55:02
Speaker
which is a definite sign of how far things have moved along. But is it a sign that the US government is about to drop the big reveal? I don't know. I think that's a bit optimistic. Maybe I'm totally
Speculations on Upcoming UAP Report
00:55:14
Speaker
wrong. Maybe it is all linked and they're about to wheel out the Roswell bodies on TV, but I've not necessarily seen enough to be convinced of that just yet. But I thought all of these things,
00:55:24
Speaker
will be quite interesting to revisit a little bit in next month's roundtable to see how things have progressed. So what do you reckon, you guys, anything at all that lot that you're particularly keeping an eye on? Well, it's been a while since we've had a UFO Twitter hype train for some groundbreaking video that's going to be a load of shite. So, yeah. I mean, we've got this report coming out.
00:55:49
Speaker
I was like, how's Bennet to be today? And then we're going to have to scramble around before we've called this and try the last couple of times. It literally comes out hour before we've been called. You have to scramble, try and read it and talk about it. But yeah, you know what I mean? It's interesting. Something comes off it. I hope we get something out of the report like I did last time. Maybe we get more than we think. I'm quite optimistic. Then we won't be total nothingness. But yeah, it's just exciting times. And if there's something coming that few days, then we're here for it.
00:56:20
Speaker
What do you reckon Greg? Anything you're keeping an eye on out of all that a lot? I want to know if Brian Johnson is... Really the singer of NCDC. I don't think he's the same guy. I want to know...
00:56:36
Speaker
if he is gonna be called out when it goes to shit and everything that he's hyping up. We were talking about it yesterday briefly. Yeah, it's one of those. I think we just gotta wait and see and then maybe go down Ash's route of being suitably underwhelmed by a lot of stuff.
00:57:04
Speaker
Whereas I'm usually the other one going, oh, that's great. That's great. That's great. And then Ash brings me down a little bit. I'm saying, let's give it up for now. I'm going to look at it again. So now, like we said, it's an exciting time at the moment. There seems to be lots going on. There seems to be new things coming out every day, people talking about new bits, this moment of contact.
00:57:31
Speaker
has certainly stirred up some tweets and conversations online. Yeah, I think it's exciting times again, but interestingly, it's coming out on Halloween of all days.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny how the dates line up. If you think about some of the things that are being speculated about on UFO Twitter, if all of that came to fruition the next month, we'd be talking about a New York Times article with an alien body on the front cover. We'd be talking about the US government admitting that they've got bodies potentially and things like that.
00:58:12
Speaker
you know the extent of what's being discussed i don't think is necessarily going to happen but you know if any of that stuff even a tiny little bit of it comes to fruition it's going to be an interesting discussion next month but i think one thing that we can that he's definitely going to happen is is some kind of a report on october 31st all the rest of it is kind of
00:58:35
Speaker
you know, probably a lot less likely. But when this episode goes out, it's going to be, what is it, Friday the 28th? And there's even been some discussion that they might actually drop some kind of an unclassified report on that Friday. So as people are listening to this, the report may already be out, or it may end up coming out on the Monday, which is actually the 31st. But some people have been sort of saying, you know, maybe if they did want to, you know,
00:59:00
Speaker
not make too big of a splash the amount of do it on the Friday before the weekend so it could end up coming out on the Friday. I do recall last time one of these reports came out it was on the actual very last moment so it was on the day of the deadline day sort of thing which if that's the case again it's going to be the Monday.
00:59:18
Speaker
But, you know, all the rest of it, like you were saying, Greg, you know, the sort of the suit say is going to be called out when all this doesn't happen. And I think what will probably happen is there'll be a convenient shift to all the big bombshells now coming a month down the line, you know, and then a month comes and it's another two months down the line. That's generally what happens, isn't it? Oh, it does disappear. Yeah. And another account springs up under a different name talking about the same kind of predictions.
00:59:46
Speaker
Be for enough shit, some of it will stick at some point. So at least one of these predictions will come true even just by pure luck.
01:00:02
Speaker
Well, we'll see you, won't we? And I think, like I say, it will be interesting to see in a month's time how many of those things that we just mentioned, with the speculation and the hype going on, how much of that will stand the test of time.
01:00:19
Speaker
You know, never know, it might be all of it. You know, I might be being a bit overly cynical and everything might actually happen as the hype suggests, or none of it might happen. So it'll be interesting to actually look back on this conversation in a month's time, won't it? Definitely. So yeah, anything either of you guys want to add before we wrap up? No, no, it's been another fascinating
01:00:43
Speaker
chat and it was a good opportunity to review the documentary which as I think we all agreed was thoroughly enjoyable well put together and that was worth the hype that was worth yeah yeah it was and like like you said it wasn't groundbreaking in any kind of UFO
01:01:06
Speaker
or circles really apart from telling the case probably in more depth than anybody's ever spoken about it before. So I think that in itself is a good place. I think like you said, that's one good documentary people can look at, not necessarily learn anything about the subject, but that particular case is a good place to go to.
01:01:30
Speaker
Definitely. And if anyone's not checked out the other James Fox films as well, definitely worth having a look at as well. I know what I saw. That's a really good one. Very early. And he talks about the Phoenix lights. I always nearly say Phoenix Nights.
01:01:47
Speaker
That's a great program. I tell you what, and I only really kind of clocked recently that maybe Peter Kay is a bit of a closet UFO fan. You don't call your show Phoenix Nights for no reason, do you? Do you know what I mean? Somebody needs to sort of delve into that a bit and maybe it is just a coincidence. But I reckon I'll reach out with my Bolton connections and see if I can get him on the podcast.
01:02:10
Speaker
Get Max and Paddy on. Yeah. But anyway, I don't think Peter Kay's got all the answers, but you know, it'd be a fun show anyway. Yeah, we'd definitely. But anyway, I think on that bomb show then, we'll call it a night, guys. I'll catch you both next time. Yeah, speak to you soon, Frank. Yeah, see you next month. UFO round table. The UFO thinker in pursuit of the paranormal podcasts.