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Ep 152 - My Haunted Project & Paranormal Debunkers with Danny Moss
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In this episode we talk to Danny for the 4th time, covering off what exciting future the My Haunted Project has as he reveals a secret is going to become reality over there next few months. He talks to us about our Delamere visit and also we go in depth into the state of the debunking that goes on in the paranormal world. We chat about the fine line between debunking and personal attacks.
Check Danny out - https://www.facebook.com/dannymossofficial
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Transcript
Introduction and Reunion
00:00:00
Speaker
almost but i don't know where to white those on or what it was it wasn't an airplane it was not in your plane it was out off You're listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal Podcast with your hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hey Ash, how you doing? good Good, Greg. Good to see you again. How's it going? Yeah, we must have seen each other about an hour ago, recording another podcast for somebody else. So it's nice to be.
Guest Introduction: Danny Moss
00:00:37
Speaker
Too too often at the minute. You were at your in Basement last week, now, yeah. I know. um I think it's ah too often at the minute. Yeah, yeah. I know you're back. I know you're back now, but let's ah ah slow down. um i I'm suffocating you now, am I?
00:00:55
Speaker
So we are joined for the fourth time tonight by somebody that we've known for many years now on the podcast. And he's been someone that has um been open and honest with us both on the podcast and off the podcast and has helped us out. And we've we've been up to a particular place in Chester that we'll we'll get on to shortly.
00:01:20
Speaker
Um, and the last time we spoke to him was about 18 months ago, and I can't believe it's that long.
Delamere Forest UFO Vigil
00:01:28
Speaker
Um, so welcome back to the but one like Danny Moss. How are you doing, Danny? Hi guys. Oh my God. I cannot believe it has been that long since we last spoke. It is, uh, that is flown by to say the least.
00:01:43
Speaker
has. And one thing I've forgot completely forgot to mention is that this time last year, roughly, we were in Delamere Forest having some weird experiences throughout the night, weren't we? So and that was a year ago. Can't believe that. Oh my God.
The Paranormal Investigator on YouTube
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, it was like and yeah it it was summer 2023, wasn't it? And that was a real eye opener for me because it's the first UFO kind of vigil I'd ever done. And getting to share that with with you guys was a surreal experience, of one that I'd definitely be up for doing again. Yeah, 100%, especially when you see a light in the forest and it freaks me out and then it turns out to be the moon.
00:02:28
Speaker
but
00:02:31
Speaker
I remember that. i was it was That was awkward as fuck. I'm not going to lie. I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. So great. We'll gloss over that. But that was a really good night. I really enjoyed that. And anybody who's um interested in seeing it again, you can now see it on YouTube, I think. I don't know. Is it still, is it on YouTube? Yeah, yeah. and you just then If you go over to my...
My Haunted Project: Evolution and Challenges
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, I'm not big on YouTube really, but I do have a YouTube channel to showcase my work. It's ah the Paranormal Investigator. You can find ah yeah a few episodes on there, including that ah epic night in Delamere.
00:03:10
Speaker
I tell you what, that was such a that was such a weird night. That was just such a weird night. And I think even watching it doesn't give you the the appreciation of quite how weird that place is, because there's there was loads of weird noises. there was We saw loads of stuff in the sky. And that's the first time I've seen stuff in the sky that has just been a bit strange, besides from the moon, obviously. but But um I must say that the the weird bit for me when I watched it back um was when I was doing the Estes method right at the end and you guys saw that the lights or whatever was going across. All the time in my ear and I never heard it since and I never heard it before was like this
00:04:00
Speaker
ah can know You can hear me talk about it on on the video at the time. It's like a crackling like electrical static noise. It was horrendous. so And it just kept going every now and again. And it ties in with when you guys think there was loads of weird stuff. I've never heard that on a radio suite before. but Yeah, it was it was very, very interesting. I think the fact that the the Envoy device that I had at the time was was picking up on magnetic shifts in in the in the atmosphere around it, it kind of all kind of synchronized together. So yeah, very weird, very cool eye opener for me. and Not really experienced with the whole UFO kind of visual thing and the CE5 techniques that we were doing with, them I think it was NAT, wasn't it?
00:04:49
Speaker
and Yeah, I loved it, guys. Absolutely. And a pleasure to work with you guys, as always. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun to to sit to see you in action, Danny, rather than seeing you on screen. So that was that was a pleasure as well.
00:05:05
Speaker
so One of the other bits where we've seen you before, um prior to that, was at my haunted hotel in Chester, which, incidentally, I was there on Sunday. We won't talk about the fact that you didn't come and see me, Danny. We will gloss over that. But um I was there with Sarah from to investigate, and we had a lovely roast. So if anybody does want to hit it up for a roast, they do a lovely roast, I must say.
00:05:34
Speaker
And the pudding was rather spectacular. um So how are things going at My Haunted Hotel? Because it's now called My Haunted Project as well. Yeah, look, it's it's been a very, very and yeah weird year shall we say there's been a lot of changes a lot of ups and downs and I think it's I think this year will be key to how it all moves forward so yeah look what started with my haunted hotel has evolved into my haunted project and I think that was always the plan really I mean last time I spoke to you guys
00:06:13
Speaker
it, you know, we just set up one in America, or we were planning on setting one up in America. And yeah, it's, it's been very, very strange. And the whole sort of almost three years that we've been running have, you know, that there is so much work involved in it that I can't even begin to describe it. It's a full time job for me. And this year has been a massive eye opener, but that the future is very very bright for this now and you know this format has proved to be a very popular one there's a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon with it a lot of people believe it's the right way of investigating the paranormal in terms of the 24-7 documentation the the educational format to it and most importantly opening the doors up to
00:07:07
Speaker
to people like yourselves who have been there in person and um and you get to be a part of it all. But I think now people need to kind of realize and that it's not just about My Haunted Hotel anymore. This is a project that is going to evolve on a much bigger scale. My Haunted Hotel was just the the epicenter, the first one. ah We have obviously My Haunted Manor USA now over in Pennsylvania in America.
00:07:35
Speaker
and that's flourishing. They've been with us since January and things are moving at rapid pace and 2025 is set to be the biggest year yet for the project. Because 12 months ago I think you had the two other locations kind of primed the Mill and the Mansion and for one reason or another they both not kind of materialised fully to obviously what you were planning a year ago. So any other sort of locations that you are looking at or anything coming up in terms of locations?
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, this is what I'm on about. 2024 has been a year of massive change where we thought maybe we could expand at a rapid pace. and you know I don't think we were able to get stuff in place as well as we thought we
Teasers and Upcoming Shows
00:08:22
Speaker
were. Taking on Walton Hall in Liverpool, and which we were going to call my haunted mansion, and was a much bigger task than we imagined and the state that that building's in with all the the people that are still continuously breaking in as well. No support from the council in Liverpool.
00:08:41
Speaker
it just wasn't feasible to take this on and and I think what we what we fell into the trap of this year was we got the manor open in America so it was all you know we were we were jumping off the success of that and we tried to move too fast and took on unrealistic possibilities and then with the mill and there was an insurance issue there that we and unfortunately weren't made aware of so that fell through as well. So you look loads and loads of change but to answer your question Ash, and yes we we have one possibly two things lined up for 2025 which and speaking now I can't say anything about however once we announce certainly one of them it will shake the paranormal world
00:09:35
Speaker
big time um because it is the most craziest thing that is going to be done and it's in a location where everybody knows um so that's all i'll say on that wow why are you leaving this like that when are we gonna find this out when are we gonna fall down yeah so the the big The big major announcement because obviously My Haunted Project has just been commissioned for a mainstream show as well. So it it will obviously be moving away from the the paranormal YouTube scene. And ah the the big announcement regarding the mainstream show as well as these other possible announcements will all take place at a VIP event at My Haunted Hotel on the 14th of December.
Debate and Science in Paranormal
00:10:24
Speaker
and then everyone who can't make that event, they will all find out on the Sunday the 15th of December.
00:10:33
Speaker
Exciting. Can't wait for that. Coming we up very soon though, tomorrow, I think it is, you are doing a live debate in Chester. Don't tell us how that came about and what what that is.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, and that that was something that kind of has materialized over the last few weeks. A guy called David who does dark tours in Chester. He's like one of the the big tour guides very much into the the folklore, the paranormal surrounding Chester City. as He's done a lot of work at at my haunted hotel as well and he invited me to take part in this live debate with and a psychology lecturer So that's going to be a really, really interesting debate. And i'm I'm really looking forward to it. There'll be people there who have huge interest in the power of normal and also other people from different backgrounds attending. And it it would be a nice sort of healthy debate that will take place. We'll share some stories. And I'm really looking forward to that. um And then i'm I'm straight over to the hotel afterwards to actually ah run one of the investigations. So yeah, busy, busy day tomorrow.
00:11:51
Speaker
So do you think, talking about this debate, do you do you think sort of mainstream scientists and psychologists have their own, or do are you aware of any of their tates on um this? Because we've we've spoken to somebody before on the podcast, and she was struggling to get people to to take notice of her. So she'd done a psychology degree, then she um specialized in parapsychology and then she moved into to doing EVPs and she's got a doctorate in parapsychology. um So obviously there is a ah niche in in psychology for it, but do you think that science ah tries to explain it away as as tricks of the mind, that kind of thing?
00:12:43
Speaker
Yes, I do think that. um I also think it's a very touchy subject within science. and you know The paranormal has been around for for centuries and it has constantly caused at a ah divide with you know the scientific community and um and believers in the paranormal.
00:13:04
Speaker
I've always been of the opinion that science is constantly evolving. um you know how long was it before How long ago was it you know where scientists actually thought the earth was flat? How long ago was it where they thought smoking was actually good for you? So science contradicts itself. However, and we need science. Absolutely we do. We need science and we need to push the boundaries with modern paranormal investigation and and scientific approaches. it will all where you It will always divide people I think until there is a definitive answer either way.
00:13:45
Speaker
paul Look, i'm I'm very much on the paranormal side of things, but as you both know, and many people know my story, I was a complete skeptic of the paranormal. So i I believe myself that psychology has a huge part to play in the paranormal. We see it.
00:14:03
Speaker
at the project all of the time. I saw it prior to the project on my haunted hunts investigations with the public and I still receive it on a weekly basis now. yeah know My admin team send me emails that the haunted hunts receive because obviously the then now the company is now at a full-time call out consultancy and paranormal consultancy and the amount of people that are quite clearly looking at the paranormal in in a psychological way rather than actually an evidence-based way. And that for me is it is a huge ah huge problem that needs to change in the paranormal. We need to
00:14:48
Speaker
rationalize things. I mean, you guys will know as well as I do, and if you're a member of a paranormal group on Facebook or multiple paranormal groups, how many all pictures come up, how many security camera footage comes up of cobwebs and you know rain. and it's It's a constant, constant thing and Ouija boards are bad for you and you shouldn't mess with them. It's a constant psychological and mindset that has been installed onto the onto the public by TV shows and Hollywood and you know centuries worth of folklore so this is nothing new but eventually I don't think it'll be in our lifetime but eventually a definitive answer will will come from from the scientific community.
00:15:41
Speaker
so oh By way of trying to sort of forward that, um do you think that when you go on a paranormal investigation, are there things that maybe you've seen online? but and This isn't a slight on anybody. I know when I've seen it on like TikTok, those kinds of places, that the experiments that people do, are valid experiments to do in calling out, they're doing all the normal stuff, but they're not being done in a controlled way.
00:16:13
Speaker
And I think the only way we can push forward like to make it more mainstream with science is to control the environment better. And I don't think I don't think people I appreciate the fact that by you calling out and you might get a knock on a wall, if you haven't checked to see if that knock on a wall is somebody next door or whatever, it it loses some of the the credibility of the science aspect. Now, not everything is going to be science based and the paranormal itself, science just doesn't like necessarily like you mentioned is
00:16:51
Speaker
is It's stuff that they don't necessarily understand and it's so fringe that mainstream scientists won't even touch it for fear of losing 10 years. But I just thought I'd ask, are there better ways of us doing experiments that will help us um get more validity with, say, the the outcome of that experiment?
Media Influence on Paranormal Perception
00:17:15
Speaker
you Yeah, did the the simple answer to your question is absolutely yeah. and let me Let me go to your point on TikTok. So, things like TikTok and YouTube and, and you know, Facebook Lives was a big one during lockdown, I think. and There are three types of things going on here. There are, the first one, it's for that shock factor. They know what they're doing is fake and they'll push that out for for money and entertainment value. The second one is that they are not faking the actively means of search for answers of the paranormal, but they're so in the mindset of, I'm in a haunted venue, if anything, the slight significance happens, it must be paranormal and there's not enough willingness to disprove or rationalize. And then and the third one is,
00:18:11
Speaker
not something you really see on TikTok, and but certainly on YouTube, there's ah there's a fair few groups that attempting to ah really you know fight for this real paranormal aspect, which you know that's brilliant. But I mean, any any paranormal investigator that's serious about their job and serious or or whether it's a hobby to them or serious about seeking the truth and will always understand the paranormal investigation is ah is a very boring, long, drawn out aspect. And, you know, there's not enough of it showcased on TV, ah YouTube, until i' certainly not TikTok, TikTok's an absolute farce for the paranormal, to be honest with you. But um yeah, look,
00:19:05
Speaker
we We see it all the time at my haunted hotel where you'll get so many different members of the public coming in from different backgrounds, you get real skeptics coming in, you get believers who think absolutely everything's paranormal and then you get everything in between and the ones that really believe everything is paranormal um the slightest knock will be a paranormal event to them. And this is why's why it's so fundamental that we have a team in the control room overseeing anything that can then radio. And you guys will have experienced this yourself by being at the hotel, our willingness to ah rationalize and give you an explanation for what's going on. And and that's so important. And unfortunately, i don't I don't see enough of that going on in the paranormal at the minute.
00:19:55
Speaker
That was definitely something that was definitely groundbreaking for when me and Ash came up and we were in one of the rooms, I can't remember which room it was now, and there was a knock at the door.
00:20:11
Speaker
for knock at the door clear as day and we rode radio through to yourself and you pulled the video and you can see the moment where the knot took place and you could see outside the door that there was nothing there and that was absolutely um revolutionary really compared to all the stuff that you see on on TV where you might not have caught it somewhere um it was just off camera for that it was on all cameras and I think that
00:20:43
Speaker
And then to put that on YouTube and those kinds of things on YouTube so people could see that, see themselves in a little episode was, was, was brilliant. And I absolutely loved that concept. It was such, such a good way to, to get the validity straight away or the, the, the sort of the grounding that actually it was just somebody walking past the door. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's us yeah I think the thing with TV though is the, um,
00:21:11
Speaker
the the the crew and the camera crew, the you know, whoever's presenting here, that the investigators of the shows, they're only on site for a limited amount of time. Whereas at the project in all locations, so the hotel, the manor, these are, this is 24 seven documentation. So, and it's long-term, so it's not just, oh, let's lock off 24 cameras in a building for three days and then see what happens and then we leave.
Understanding Paranormal Terminology
00:21:38
Speaker
The hotel's been running for almost three years. and the amount of footage in three years rolling 24-7 is astronomical. But like when it comes to that piece of phenomena that you witnessed with the knocking on the door, I've now heard that over 50 times. um And it happens in the day, it happens in the morning, it happens at night. and
00:22:02
Speaker
if It wasn't for the cameras and the team being on site all the time and the notifications going straight to Harry's phone, who's obviously the owner of the hotel. and we wouldn't We wouldn't know about it, but it's it's a thing that happens. We go through every possible scenario to try and explain it. And then when you can't find an explanation, you have to say that it is paranormal. It doesn't mean it's it's not That doesn't mean it's a ghost knocking on the door. It means it's paranormal. it's It's not a normal thing. And I think there's a lot of misconception in the field in general and and the community in general that when people say paranormal, people automatically perceive that as, oh, that's evidence of ghosts. Well, no, it's not. A ghost, in my opinion, and
00:22:54
Speaker
would be a full figure humanoid figure walking down a corridor that's caught on camera and you can't explain it that for me is is a ghost um but that there's so many aspects to paranormal activity isn't there so yeah you know and absolutely agree with you in terms of There's nothing else like it out there and the format that the project is built on, you know, it started at my haunted hotel and it will be the same across all of our future locations where it's so vital to open the doors to the public because
00:23:32
Speaker
they can witness it for themselves and there's nothing better in the paranormal than an eyewitness account being backed up on camera and and you guys are are too ah over 2000 people who who have had their eyewitness account documented on camera at that particular location.
00:23:52
Speaker
And I think the point you mentioned there about paranormal doesn't mean ghost Hopefully I'm the UFO guy out of us two. And there's a lot of similarities where people say UFO. a lot of people think alien, whereas it just means unidentified. We don't know what that
Impact of Fake Content and Debunking
00:24:08
Speaker
is. We're not saying it's come from out of space. We're not saying it's come from elsewhere. It's just at this moment in time, we don't know what that is. And you've got the same kind of different groups of people where one is every single thing is alien. It must be. or Whereas one, you would give a side where it's just, yeah, that's always a satellite. It's always space junk. It's always something else.
00:24:28
Speaker
I just want to pick up something you mentioned about TikTok. Obviously social media is always changing and stuff like that. And kind of obviously with TikTok you have like three seconds to try and get people's attention and then it's gone to the next thing.
00:24:43
Speaker
what What do you think to you is like kind of the best medium, I guess to try and maybe be not the best way to be joke. The best platform or the best way to kind of get people's attention? What you found has worked or isn't working? I mean, look, there's a lot of people out there that are in the paranormal to try and gain exposure and to try and showcase their investigations and
00:25:14
Speaker
I've absolutely no problem with that at all. I've done the same thing over the years. So, you know, people are on their own journey. People have a right to put their hobby, their love for something, or whether it be their job, if they're lucky enough to do that, onto a platform where people can see. But, I mean, with with TikTok, it's not just a paranormal issue, it's ah a society issue. like is it's absolutely destroyed the attention span of the younger population and
00:25:51
Speaker
you know i don't I don't know how anyone can disagree with with what I'm saying there, because it it is. That's absolutely the problem. And look, I have a TikTok account. and the The project has a TikTok account. The project, one of the videos, has got 4.2 million views on it at the minute. And I have no idea how that's happened, because it's just a video of people running out of a room because some footsteps are heard. so i mean But then you've got the likes of, and I will name them because I'm not really that bothered, it's common knowledge, but you've got the likes of a ah channel called Smug Puppy who are quite blatantly faking things for views and that is damaging the paranormal. like that That is absolutely damaging because then what you get from that is a domino effect of
00:26:48
Speaker
these these very gullible people, because anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that that's fake, and but then they believe everything is paranormal and it all it's very, very frustrating because look I've been doing this for 15 years now and I didn't come into it for any amount of and exposure of. as I was just on my own journey and it just so happened that it panned out that way and I'm very lucky. I am very lucky to to do the job I do and I don't take it for granted at all but if I could start the journey again I wouldn't have gone down this path because look at the state of the paranormal now and I don't i don't know anybody at all who can turn around and go
00:27:36
Speaker
The paranormal is in a really good place right now. They'd be lying, it's not. every you know Nobody thinks that. and Nobody who's serious about it anyway thinks that the paranormal is in a good place. But yeah, I mean, if you want to showcase what you're all about, and the only platform I know how to do that for anybody, which is free, quick, easy, is YouTube. but I think everybody knows my thoughts on paranormal YouTube. It's an absolute shit show.
00:28:09
Speaker
yeah ah fair enough and i think but when he mentioned about like the these fake channels set again same ufo stuff but i appreciate mean for me if There's a channel where the upfront is saying, yeah, because some of the stuff, like with some of the UFO stuff, it's good quality video editing. It's that in itself is a skill to create. Obviously, some of the UFO stuff, I think that is marginally that could be real. The video editing is that good. and you know I appreciate it if you said, yeah.
00:28:41
Speaker
but But if they were up front with it saying, yeah, this is a fake video, but can we do it? But when it's fake, and when you call them out, you just get so defensive about it. It's like, I'm trying to say you did a good job. but It's a good fake, but just own it as a fake, not trying to be passing it off all the time when then get defensive and start arguing with people because they're calling you out on it. That's where it's wrong. words To me, if if you say, yeah, this is for entertainment purposes, this is something we created. It's a hobby of me and my daughter. We want to make the video, see if we can do it and make it look real. Fair enough. When you like to say it's just.
00:29:14
Speaker
clearly fake. And these are the videos that get millions of views. And it's like, how do you get millions of views? And the real stuff gets stuck in the thousands or the hundreds of views. It's actually doing like the the fundamental, we what we'd call the real work. It's just quite frustrating, again, as a UFO guy, that we know people are doing hours of work every single day doing real hard work that actually means something. But the ones that are doing the fake shit, putting the clickbait stuff on,
00:29:42
Speaker
are getting all the rewards. It's just very, very frustrating. mean You know that person deserves much more. I mean, they don't want that attention, but they should get that attention yeah because they they're they're doing the proper work. Yeah. ah your Your frustration there is shared by so many in the paranormal field. But the the problem lies with the general public because if people just had a bit more common sense, they could recognize the fake stuff from the real stuff. and But it's so it's a social media issue as well. And it's an algorithm issue because, you know, the more shocking the content, and I go to YouTube for this, the more shocking that the clickbaity titles and clickbait thumbnails and oh my God, demon here, the night we almost died. and Like,
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. But like, if if people want to watch that and they go, Oh, yeah. ah Yeah. Do you know what? They've contacted a demonic entity there. If they actually believe that then, but I mean, this is the world we with the world has stupid people in and like it, you know, it doesn't take a genius to work out fake content from, from real content. But I absolutely agree with you that the real stuff gets pushed and to the back.
00:31:08
Speaker
But you have to look at why it's being pushed to the back, because if we're going to talk about YouTube here, it is so oversaturated with paranormal content, whether it be UFO, whether it be ghost hunting, whether it be crypt zoology, it's oversaturated. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of ghost videos, UFO videos on YouTube. So people are going to see the fake stuff first.
00:31:38
Speaker
because that's the stuff that's got the most views. That's the stuff that the YouTube algorithm is pushing forward. And and that that's where the the YouTube paranormal scene is such a mess at the minute. and And you're never going to be able to get rid of it. So the frustration is growing more and more year by year where the real investigators and the the people who are searching for the truth and putting real content out there are almost tearing their hair out because you have got the likes of, you know, Twin Paranormal and Really Haunted and all that, and they're getting thousands and millions of views. And and it's it's it's nonsense. It is nonsense. Everybody knows it's nonsense, but the problem is not enough people know it's nonsense. um But it's about common sense. It really is. The general public have got to have more common sense.
00:32:35
Speaker
and paranormal YouTube needs to just stop. it It's like it's gone way too far now, but where where else can people showcase their work? Not everybody's gonna get, well, very, very few people will get a TV deal. And and and and it's that's how it is. It's a real mess all over TV, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, every platform out there, Facebook, it's all a mess with the paranormal.
00:33:06
Speaker
So talking about likes and socialite, particularly on on YouTube, but other channels, I wanted to just broach a subject that I've witnessed in my very short time being back on social media. I've only been on social media probably for the last month um after taking a well-earned 12 months off.
00:33:29
Speaker
and like you say, the the state of some of it is appalling. um But I do feel that there are people out there, there are channels out there that try to debunk. um It's a word that I'm not really a fan of. I was talking to Sarah um As I mentioned, over the weekend, we we spent a lot of time in the car over the weekends. We were able to to chat all things paranormal.
00:34:05
Speaker
and ah said to have you have you checked out what the word debunk means because in my mind debunk is a weird kind of word so I got the the sort of the the meaning of um debunk and it means to expose something as being pretentious false or exaggerated so when these there are channels out there that try and debunk that's what their term they they will try and debunk videos but the actual
00:34:36
Speaker
pretense is that they're out there trying to prove that whatever they're seeing is fake. So know how good your footage is that they will try and fake it. ah Sorry, expose it as being fake regardless of whether it is for likes and views. And like you say, um controversial content YouTube loves. The algorithms love controversial content. Loads of up, thumbs up or whatever they do. want I don't know, I'm too old for YouTube.
00:35:03
Speaker
um
00:35:05
Speaker
But if you can cause a controversy, you get pushed up for the algorithms that like all the fake content and stuff like that. So in my mind that when somebody says they're going to debunk the paranormal as such that they're actually straight away, they're saying that they believe it to be false.
00:35:25
Speaker
um them So I think the word debunking is wrong. I think some some of these channels out there, I'm not saying all of them, but some of them are actively essentially bullying people for likes. um And there's one phrase you touched on a minute ago, Danny, and it was absolutely perfect. And it was one that what the debunkers should be doing is they should look at the footage and eliminate everything that is possible. And this is a quote that when you've eliminated the impossible,
00:35:58
Speaker
so it's dust it's whatever it might be whatever remains however improbable must be the truth whether that's a paranormal truth like you say paranormal doesn't mean ghost but whatever you're left with is remains unexplained it doesn't mean it's fake it just means that you can't can't get what it is. You just don't understand what it is. So I do hate the word debug. I think some people are using it for likes. I just thought I'd broach that subject on here because I know it is something that we've, I've been called a government shill for putting up a photograph of a 15 second exposure of a plane going over my house. I live next to R.F. Price, no one, so I'd see planes coming all the time.
00:36:47
Speaker
put a picture up and some guy said it wasn't an airplane, I'm a government shill, all that kind of stuff. right But it's a photograph I took, I can send you the photo. They weren't interested, they were just actively trying to attack.
00:37:03
Speaker
um What are your guys' thoughts on it? Wow. and Okay, so... How do I say this? Well, I didn't want to go in too deep on that, but it's something that I have noticed. And I do know it's something that doesn't help any community, really. But yeah, so look, whatever I say here, um if if you know certain certain debunker channels are listening to it, we'll likely make a video of it and and you know use my words and whatever will happen, it it will be it will go against me. So the only way for me to talk about this is just to be as open and honest as as possible. and do Do I think that debunker channels are a a good thing?
00:37:57
Speaker
i think that raising awareness for fake paranormal is a good thing. Absolutely. And and I think that it is helping the people who who are blindly believing this fake content to be real. I think it is helping raise awareness for them. And and that is a good thing. Is there a particular way to do it? Yes. And I don't think that's what's happening. I think that
00:38:28
Speaker
What has happened here is there has been a a sudden trend of and debunker channels that have arisen. Now, it's very interesting to hear you say it, Greg, because you've been out of the the field and out of the scene for 12 months. and This has only come about in the last sort of 12 to 24 months. And what I will say is that there are a lot, and when I say a lot, I'm seeing it go viral on viral is the wrong
Defending Authenticity and Integrity
00:38:59
Speaker
word. and I'm seeing it explode on multiple paranormal groups between people who are actually involved in the paranormal and teams that are not fake at all. and They are real teams who equally share the frustration as we've just spoke about regarding fake content, but there are a lot of people now talking about this and saying it is going too far. and Now,
00:39:25
Speaker
ah forever who knows this and and anybody who who follows me closely will know it. I've been a victim of debunking channels and over the the course of 2024 and um what i'm what I'm actually seeing is that nobody has actually ever the the the money haunted project and there is the narrative on youtube that my haunted hotel
00:39:57
Speaker
is an attraction which has speakers in the wall which we activate from the control room and create sounds coming from those speakers. That is the narrative that is on YouTube and that narrative has been brought around by debunker channels which have got it badly, badly wrong. and Now how can I prove that they've got it badly wrong?
00:40:26
Speaker
We open the doors to anybody. Now, and for anybody who doesn't know this, one of the debunker channels is Beardo Gets Scared. Now, he's been to the hotel twice. The first time he came in was before he started his channel properly, and he booked in under his name Dale. ah He attended with his missus to my haunted hotel, and I have got a very, very clear video of him talking to camera saying how good the place is and how real it is and how he applauds it. He then returned to the hotel upon invite where we gave him and another team called PSI free access to the location to check everything. Now what came from that video
00:41:14
Speaker
Oh yes, they've hidden everything before they came in. They've hidden all the speakers, they've hidden all the buttons that activate the speakers and it's absolutely ridiculous. and So what I'm seeing is it's gone way too far because there's actually real anybody who anybody who's been to my haunted hotel and anybody who's followed the My Haunted Project and actually been there in person and knows that everything that happens in the hotel
00:41:47
Speaker
is completely real and it's not fabricated at all you two have been there yourselves you know this and there's certainly no buttons in the control room and there's certainly no speakers in our grade listed walls which would take us to actually install that into the fabric of the building and if there were speakers in the walls and the knocking would all come from the same place and people with any ounce of common sense would take an emf detector put it up against the wall realize it's spiking like crazy and realize that there is an electrical device in the wall so don't take a genius to work that out but it has all come from one guy in a mask in america
00:42:30
Speaker
making a debunk on my haunted hotel which he accused guests of using fishing wire and being paid by us to pull things and he actually accused us of throwing things out a window which was actually a dust particle flying past the camera and And so that's how badly wrong he got it. And and we reacted to that. There was a joint decision from the team at the hotel to react to it. Should we have done that in hindsight? No, we should have probably just ignored it because what came from that was a ship storm. And then we had another one who's done multiple videos on me and who accuses the hotel of being an attraction because it once held a scary Halloween event back in 2013 where
00:43:18
Speaker
actors were dressed up scaring people i don't know what that's got to do with the power normal and but. If you don't believe me on this, go and look at Newsham Park Asylum, one of the most reputedly haunted locations in the country, which is booked out every single weekend by paranormal teams doing paranormal investigations. There is a poster online, I have it on my phone to share with anybody who doesn't believe me. They hold a scare attraction event at Halloween over the course of October, where people are dressed up as zombies and they chase them around the asylum.
00:43:53
Speaker
How is that any different to what my haunted hotel did back in 2013? But suddenly, the hotel is not a hotel. It's a scare attraction which was rebranded into my haunted hotel. Let's completely ignore the fact that over the course of the 90s, the 1980s,
00:44:11
Speaker
the early 2000s, this has been a hotel which has got eyewitness accounts dating all the way back even to the 70s of people having paranormal experiences. It has always been known to be haunted even before Harry Achilles took over the building. I'm starting to make sense of where I'm going with this. There is a narrative that has been created and because that narrative has been put out there, people,
00:44:39
Speaker
believe it. And then what happens from then, I react to it, because I'm an opinionated person, I will defend the the project that I work for, I will defend my work, which I have a ah right to. But everyone who knows me knows that I will speak my mind. But if there's one thing I don't do is lie. I don't lie, because lies catch up with you. So I'll always say the truth. So everything I said here is true.
00:45:05
Speaker
a narrative has been spun. Nobody has ever, ever debunked My Haunted Hotel. No one has provided solid evidence that anything fake is happening in in My Haunted Hotel. And I think that that's a good point. um I mean, we've known you for a few years now anyway.
00:45:25
Speaker
um ah
00:45:28
Speaker
i It's something that I'm all over and I think your passion comes through about the paranormal and the projects you run. I also think that because you defend it so so much, that people are almost desperately wanting you to fail. But then I think to myself, if you've got my haunted hotel and it come out for whatever reason, that there was a hidden speaker in the wall or whatever, that would literally destroy
00:46:04
Speaker
everything for you, Harry, Brad, everybody who's involved in it will just, it's the kind of environment we're in that it would, that would be it. There's essentially there's no coming back. So why, why would you go to great lengths to to fake something, knowing full well that if that came out, you're fucked, basically. Well, not ah not only that, but why why on earth would we risk it with it's actual people coming into the building who bought? We have no idea if if a debunker books under a fake name and comes in and and surprises us. We've got no idea if that happens. like I have no idea who Beardo was when he first booked. He came in and said he was skeptical and I said, what
00:46:51
Speaker
you know If anyone asks him that, he will say that because I was a sceptic myself. i look but look this this isn't I've said it so many times and I'm the bad guy for saying it. This isn't the bunkin this is fabricricks he debunking. This Like I said, that is assassination because if you're trying to debunk something, you should be looking at everything it could be.
Criticism and Community Reflection
00:47:13
Speaker
and if you can rule it all out then you're left with this unknown and it should remain an unknown rather than well if I can't explain it it must be fake and when people come after you or come after the project or whatever that that's that's not debunking that's that's that's something more and it isn't right and that that's the kind of shit that destroys everything I know with like the UAP stuff and the UFO stuff I know that some of the big people like Jeremy Corbell they're always getting attacked by people saying that it's all fake and and whatnot but nobody can prove any of it's fake so yeah this is this is my this is my this is my problem with it all and look I'm not I'm not the only person I've mentioned here is is Beardo and I won't mention the others but
00:48:03
Speaker
you know, be there was worked with me in person. He knows what I'm like. He knows that the hotel is real. He's been there. But even he's been accused of covering it all up. And that's it's just ridiculous. But what I will say is that earlier this year, I was I had a woman and make a video on me talking about, you know by the way, this was a live video that I was doing on the My Hornet Project fan group. So whoever sent it to her or whether she went in herself was doing it deliberately. And there's me talking about the fact that the project doesn't belong on YouTube, it belongs on mainstream TV.
00:48:45
Speaker
Now it just so happens that I was actually right in everything that I said because we now have a mainstream mainstream TV contract and we're coming away from YouTube and I've already explained why it doesn't belong on YouTube because it is based on real paranormal and that doesn't get the views. It echoes in the stuff, the views that we get on YouTube. Anyway, she made a video on me.
00:49:06
Speaker
where she picks me apart. And I responded on Facebook and i I said, who the fuck is this crab, right? Now, yeah, that's an emotional response. It is. But I'm sorry, it's crap is is the word crab, the most offensive word that I could have used there? No. Is it quite funny? Yes. Now,
00:49:31
Speaker
From that, I had multiple videos made on me. Danny Moss is a woman abuser. He wouldn't dare say this to a man. And then you you'll never believe this. And Greg, I know you're involved in in the martial arts or or were heavily involved in martial arts as well. I've done boxing since I was at a young lad.
00:49:53
Speaker
I absolutely love boxing. Me, boxing, because I incorporated it in one of my paranormal investigator videos talking about that I live quite a healthy lifestyle and it helps me on paranormal investigations, that was fun to make it seem that I'm using boxing to threaten people and that I'm a bully. This this is what I'm talking about. And this is not debunking. This is character assassination, personal attacks, and the communities that come from it. I've gotten the messages approved. I've ive received and threats online. I've received abuse in mee on Messenger. I've received abuse on Instagram. and And then the comments on these YouTube videos about me
00:50:39
Speaker
Oh, can't stand that guy. Look how gawky he looks. Look at the size of his mouth. And he's he's claiming he lives a healthy life lifestyle, not judging by his pigmented skin. Can't stand that guy, the way he talks. Look at his teeth. These are all personal attacks from a video which is not even saying ah that any of the content I'm making is fake. but This is what I'm talking about. This is this is not debunking, and and that's where ah anybody who who listens to this now, the evidence is all there. It speaks for itself, but I'm the bad guy. I'm the bully because I react to stuff. I call it out. I say it how it is, and I would say it in person.
00:51:29
Speaker
And and that's that's how I've always been. But if you're gonna take a shot at me, then I will respond to it. That's the way I've always been. And believe me, I ignore 99% of things that come my way because it it's a lot. and But if we're gonna talk about debunking, let's let debunk the paranormal. Let's not attack fucking people online.
00:51:58
Speaker
So does, mean I mean, obviously that, oh, that stuff's horrible. It's absolutely, but like I say, couch fascination, it's vilification. It's, and I think sometimes people like a villain and it just, I think people latch onto things and you sort of see like little mob groups forming and stuff, and it's just too easy to to join them. Is this stuff that happens to you ever put you off? one Yeah, i got yeah that absolutely. Yeah. Like, look,
00:52:24
Speaker
um This all came about because I defended the project that I don't even know. I just work for it. I work for the project. I produce the show. I investigate the paranormal for my love of the paranormal. And I think it's an incredible thing for the paranormal because it's everything that I want. Everything's on camera. It's long-term data analysis and recognizing patterns over years of investigating. It's it's any paranormal investigator's dream to work for this project.
00:52:55
Speaker
And the fact that one of the most fulfilling thing about my job is seeing people's faces who have genuine paranormal experiences. Anybody who has worked with me in person will tell you how much of a nice guy I am and how much I love this and that that the paranormal and love this project. So I defended the project.
00:53:18
Speaker
And did I do that in the right way at times? No, admittedly not. I've been outspoken. I've made mistakes. I've let a motion ride on it. But I think that anybody in my position, if you're being falsely accused of fakery and forgery, the one thing that you are dead set against You're gonna react in an angry way, in an upset way. And did I do that right? so Should I call that woman a fucking crab? No. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I could have called her much, much worse. and Does that make me a woman abuser all of a sudden? Absolutely not. And and and the effect this doesn't have on just me, my family, and my partner, who who has to see me go through this, it's disgusting. now
00:54:08
Speaker
this is this is no longer about the paranormal this is just pure character assassination and let's let's get this guy and get our community in and i will say to be fair to the debunkers they do say and don't go over to their channels causing hate Does it work? Absolutely not. Is that a social media problem? Absolutely. Yeah, fully fully agree. So respect to them for saying that. I'll be fair, you know, and respect to them for making videos and exposing fakery. No one's that ever, ever, ever exposed my haunted hotel. And I tell you why, because there's no proof that it's fake, because it's not fake.
00:54:48
Speaker
They've never been in person. The only one who has anything to say is Beardo because he has been in person. All the other guys behind masks and the other ones that have done stuff, they've never been.
00:55:00
Speaker
One lives in America, one lives in Australia, and the other one lives in the Northeast, and none of them have ever visited the hotel in person. So how can they possibly, possibly deem it to be fake? But it's not about fakery. It's about a personal vendetta because I responded, and they didn't like the fact that I responded. So, you know, this is this is it. And I'll probably get multiple videos made about me now for saying this, but let's be honest here,
00:55:29
Speaker
i could I could make my own response videos on YouTube. I'm not going to do it because it just gets tit for tat, childish. These are 40-odd year old fellas, 50-odd year old fellas.
00:55:40
Speaker
all the the taking swipes at me because I've responded because I've been accused of fakery. My work has been accused of fakery and it's not fake. So I have a right to defend myself. and Maybe I should do that a bit more politically in the in the future or just completely ignore it. Absolutely. Hands up when I've done something wrong, I shouldn't let my emotion come out on social media. Absolutely not. But it's nothing I wouldn't say to these people's faces.
00:56:08
Speaker
But they wouldn't say it to your face. I know that. i could bet you I could bet you every single penny I own, not a single one of these people will ever, ever come to me and say it in person. Now, that's not a threat because I'll be accused of that always threatening us. He's going to use his boxing, buth blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not all. I just have a lot more respect if you actually came to the hotel.
00:56:31
Speaker
had a grown up mature conversation instead of just making a video about me online, which they're clearly doing for views and monetization. so yeah absolutely fine you just just ignore me i'll ignore you and we'll just get on and and do our things i respect anybody who who exposes fakery but the hotel is not fake and there's over 2000 people who know the hotel isn't fake because they've been there in person they're the ones who can talk everyone's entitled to opinion absolutely you can have an opinion but to paint something out as
00:57:06
Speaker
solid evidence that this is fake or spin a narrative you've got to be prepared to back that up especially if you're a a debunker channel that's going out to these people and it's just wrong and it just needs to stop and i am not the only one now who has this issue there are tons and tons and tons of real paranormal channels, real people who are involved in the community coming forward and saying, this is a problem, because it doesn't take a genius to watch these videos and go, hang on a minute, this isn't about the paranormal anymore. this is This is personal. This is getting a bit childish, a bit ridiculous. And some of the some of the community, not all, you know, people are very fair, but you do get your idiots online. And whether they say to them,
00:57:53
Speaker
don't go and be nasty, don't be personal, don't go over to the channel and cause hate, people will do that because that is social media for you and there's a lot of people who are very unhappy in their own lives who feel important by taking shots at real people and and it's it's fucking disgusting and the the more people who are, but and there's big people, big names in the paranormal calling in this out now, Steve Higgins, Higgie Pop,
00:58:19
Speaker
the one of the biggest paranormal journalists in this country. He's calling it out. I've seen it on multiple groups and more and more channels are coming forward and calling this behavior out. Keep it about the paranormal. Stop the personal stuff. That's all I'm going to ask.
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. On a similar I've had personal attacks and insults because you're pointing out to people that their UFO video isn't when explained. So it's what what we do as an organization, we investigate UFO sightings. We get over 100 reports every year to us directly, and we go and investigate them. And 99% of the time, we can explain what that is.
00:59:04
Speaker
I've been called the bunker and Greg is coming in his shell. I've been called the bunker because I'm pointing out why. But I always explain in the way, why is this? I don't know, it's one of them where it's just like, yeah, it's this, you're an idiot. I explain why it's that.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah, and asked to to be honest with you, you know I'll have to be fair here and say that both sides are as bad as each other because you do get your believers that everything's paranoid and your cult followers of these fake channels who will then start abusing and the debunker channels for calling out obvious fakery. So I do have to be fair. like That needs to stop.
00:59:44
Speaker
ah it bought it's that They're as bad as each other, and then and that's that's why. yeah I only see this happening on YouTube, by the way. I don't see this happening anywhere else, and and that's why it's a paranormal YouTube problem. and But what everything I'm saying here is not fabricated. It's not a lie. I've been fair. It's the truth. That's that's what's happened this year.
01:00:08
Speaker
and and you know it kind of stops like let's stop it you know tomorrow night i'm going to sit with a complete skeptic are we going to end up having an argument is she then going to go home and make a personal video about me and say that i'm a bully and a woman abuser absolutely not we're going to have a healthy have a healthy debate um and and that's how it should be that absolutely how it should be but both sides need ah both communities need to stop but the fake paranormals are not doing any anyone any favor and the bunker channels that are making it more personal than it needs to be they have a responsibility to tone that down as well and it's it's just an unfortunate mess
01:00:55
Speaker
I think because the machine is now so big for the the fake paranormal channels because they can get all the views and and monetization, same with the guys on YouTube doing their thing and debunking, it becomes too big of an issue for them to go, well, why would I why would i want Stan to lose millions of views just to do the right thing? um But yeah, I think this...
01:01:22
Speaker
I'm sure we'll touch on this again at some point in the future, to be fair. because I really hope not. certain say Same. But yeah, it is it's it's a sad state of affairs when when we have to have a discussion um about all the bad stuff that's happening, when it is such an amazing thing that the paranormal is such an amazing thing. UFOs, cryptids, everything that comes under that.
01:01:52
Speaker
is going to the hotel. I mean Ash went and the the table in the brothel area, the the table just like banged up. And it's a fucking monster of a table. yeah And we've got a camera on there at that point and it shook. And and I was like, well, it wasn't me. Cause I was one end and I'm, although I'm a big guy, I'm not, nobody's that big. Yeah. look It's it's a huge it's a a heavy, heavy table. And again, but yeah What are you two gonna now be accused of a fakery because you've had a moment that that's happened It's just where does it stop and it you know what? It's the one thing what you've just said there about The paranormal is so amazing and it's it's the same that it always ends up as a negative and I miss it. I miss the excitement the buzz of
01:02:47
Speaker
being able to just investigate and and use new technology. Look, I've got a new gadget here that I've been tested at the hotel, the EVP mic, which measures frequencies. I was like a kid at Christmas when I got this, but that's that's what I miss. That's what it should be about. It should be about people just being able to have their love for, like I'm a big history geek. I love my history, but history has a huge part to play in the paranormal. um and And it always ends up coming down to the negative. And everybody I've ever spoke to in the paranormal, I see it across every paranormal group. There are teams falling out. There are this, there's that, there's this negative, there's that negative. And so and so said this, and so and so said that. And he said it's, you know, it's constant. It's all the time. I'm in the middle of writing a new book now, which will be coming out before Christmas, where I highlight all of this stuff.
Upcoming Book and Closing Remarks
01:03:44
Speaker
and how it takes away your love for the paranormal, because it just has to always end in a negative and, and sick to death of it. Other people are sick to death of it. Um, you know, I, I spoke to, uh, Sarah and, uh, and Emma, her sister at the festival of the unexplained. They're sick of it. Um, you know, they're two guys that have come into it. They're making a loud noise. They wear pink. They're out there.
01:04:10
Speaker
and absolutely and and people don't like that people people are taking shots at them already because they're trying to have fun with it and it's you know everybody everybody has had an issue in the paranormal and that that is why this is such a bad mess and it it really does need fixing it seems like a good place to to to and end the conversation really unfortunately ending on a on a bad bet I do think the paranormal has got so much to give. And if everybody pushes in the right direction, I think we can, I know that that sounds a bit preachy, but it's, it's true. I think it's such a fascinating subject that, um, like I can speak to people about it and they go, what do you, what'd you do at the weekend? You go, I went ghost hunting. That's essentially what they would see as if they're not into it. They're like, don't freak me out. I'm like,
01:05:07
Speaker
okay and then we have a we have a discussion about it and they go do you believe in ghosts in and I'm like wow it depends what your class of ghosts and and then they're like oh I didn't think of it like that and then go so how do you how do you what do you do and you go well I put these devices down there and we do this device we do this experiment and like oh and they I don't know what what image they've got in the head is like ghostbusters or something like that um I get called a ghostbuster and and whatnot but You can have such a fascinating conversation with people who have seen probably most haunted episodes every now and again, because that's where most people, then my generation started on a lot of it. And it's just such a big, the same with um UFOs and that, and i'll go I go, I'll do this paranormal UFO podcast and then that people get normal.
01:05:58
Speaker
What's that all about? And then they go, I saw that on the news or I saw this on the news. And it has a ah healthy debate. And I think we do lose some of that online when everybody gets too, too into it and too passionate about what they think is the right answer without opening up their mind a little bit to to other possibilities. So. Yeah, absolutely. um And do you know what? like There are so many positives as well. Let's let's be real here andly and try to end this on a positive. and like I don't do many podcasts anymore because you know whatever I say will will just get spun and um and twisted. but
01:06:40
Speaker
Obviously I know you guys personally and I've come on this podcast for a long time and I enjoy doing it and I know that we all share very similar views on on things and and you do get to meet really nice people and but that's what we're trying to do with the project. We're actually opening the doors for investigators, skeptics, people from all walks of life to come in and and all have a healthy, ah friendly investigation where different views can be and you know given without without the toxicity of it all. So um that that's what we're trying to do. And it's it's just been a year for me where
01:07:22
Speaker
I really have lost my love for for the paranormal due to due to the politics and due to the the the the nastiness and you know you know and admittedly you know sometimes I don't help myself and I shouldn't get involved in it I should just walk away but that's that's how it is. But it takes a big person to to admit that in yourself as well so it's a good one you for that to be fair. um So yeah where where can people find you Danny?
01:07:53
Speaker
probably on a deb bunker channel by the end of this and down i mean well i don't do you Well, we'll be on there with you. We'll be on there with you. So yeah, obviously my Hornet project. and is you can watch the full hotel show on on YouTube, you can watch and you can watch My Only Man of USA on YouTube, there'll be other locations that will feature on YouTube but obviously with us going mainstream now and that the main kind of documentary style show will be on the mainstream platform. I put my own little YouTube show out there just to give some people free content because I know I appreciate everything's behind behind a paywall nowadays
01:08:35
Speaker
and But yeah, you find me on Amazon with The Haunted Hunt, you can find, yeah, find me anywhere really, you just type my name in and away you go. And I'm a nice guy in person, so yeah, come with me. That's the thing, we spent many hours with you in the middle of a forest, and if you were going to kill us, you'd probably have killed us then, but you didn't, you were very welcome in, so thank you for not killing me.
01:09:03
Speaker
I appreciate it Danny, thanks for coming on. No problem guys, i always a pleasure to speak to you both and I will see you at potentially new locations for the project. I'm sure. Yes, I look forward to that. We'll get going with that guys, thanks so much honestly and and <unk> it's always a good open conversation to have on here and and and you know it's just ah don't think i'm saying anything that everybody else isn't thinking i'm just probably the one who says it
01:09:34
Speaker
yeah though it ob steve for that cool and mao cheta Thanks for listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal with title music created by Steve Yarwood and Ambienfinity.
01:09:47
Speaker
If you like the show, please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, X, and Instagram. And if you really like the show, please rate and review the show wherever you are listening. It really does help. See you next time, and until then, stay weird.