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Ep 164 - Swedish UFO & Paranormal Researcher Fred Andersson
238 Plays23 days ago
Author, researcher, TV producer and investigator Fred Andersson joins us from Sweden as we hear some fascinating UFO cases from the country as well as an incredibly creepy 'Men In Black' encounter!
Title music provided by Steve Yarwood & Ambienfinity
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Transcript
Introduction to Pursuit of the Paranormal
00:00:00
Speaker
almost interesting but i don't know where to white those or what it was it wasn't an airplane it was not in air plane it was sound off You're listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast with your hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson.
00:00:21
Speaker
How are we doing, Ash? How's it going? Very well, very well. How are you doing, Greg? yeah good thank you good it's freezing cold in the uk so all is all is good it was very warm last week and i was away and now it's come back to rainy cold wet manchester it's always fun always fun going back to like two degrees it is now in a minute yeah it's horrible it's horrible up north weather wise everything else isn't so um
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, no. Did you have a nice holiday? It was very good. It was very relaxing and very hot. A nice 25 degrees most days. yeah so five Very different to our winter. Yeah, yeah. And you're still doing the Did You Know videos for TikTok whilst on a cruise ship. So my hat is off to you for that. and They actually did really well. They actually did really well, those was ones. They did. They did. They did.
00:01:19
Speaker
If we get some more Patreons, we can go more cruises. I can do more TikToks from the cruise ship. How about that? but Both of us can go that time, rather than just one of us. Anyway, it's cold in Manchester. I'm not sure what the weather is like in Sweden, but we will
Meet Fred Anderson: UFO Researcher from Sweden
00:01:37
Speaker
find out. Imagine it might be colder. We are joined today by a guest. We've been trying to arrange this for a few months. but A few things happened, but we are here now talking to UFO researcher, author,
00:01:49
Speaker
Quite well known public eye from the Swedish UFO community. And that is Fred Anderson. Thank you, Fred, for joining us. How are you doing today? Thank you. I'm i'm doing perfectly fine. i'm I'm so happy to be here, guys. And ah I need to to to apologize from the beginning because I've been awake for a long, long, long time today. I woke up at four o'clock in the morning and, you know, I'm still awake and it's nine in the evening, so you can imagine. But I'm um going to try to do my best here. Let's make for more of a fun interview. that's yeah say We appreciate you staying up to ah come and join us. yeah so Yeah. Thank you. It's my pleasure.
00:02:35
Speaker
So what are your winters like to start of interest? Is it pretty cold this time of year? Well, I mean, it's it's gotten warmer, of course, during the last 10 years or so. But at least once during this winter we go these winters, we get like, you know, 30 minus degrees here in Stockholm and Stockholm is in the middle of Sweden. Of course, far north they have can have much, much colder. This winter has been actually quite warm, um ah but bone-shilling at times, and ah you know, really gets under your skin. But we we had a couple of massive snowstorms here in in Stockholm, at least, which of course created chaos because the public transportation seems to forget that we live in Sweden, you know, each year and they get very confused.
00:03:28
Speaker
So, but but with that said, I kind of wish the winters had been whiter as as in the past when I was a kid. ah But, you know, it's oh, I'm rambling here. It's a good winter. It's a decent winter. Yeah.
00:03:47
Speaker
but very Very randomly, I don't even know why the disc just came to my head. and yeah but I'm from Warrington originally and we were the first town in the UK to get an IKEA. but So it's like a big huge thing at the time when we got, like it just came in my head to like, Sweden, IKEA, Warrington. Don't know why I wanted to say that, I was Warrington. It's safe for some reason. Anyway, let's move on to UFOs and other Yeah, I just want to say that there's not a single home in Sweden without an IKEA furniture, furniture of course. there's It's like...
00:04:24
Speaker
It's like breathing, basically, kind of. I love IKEA stuff. I love IKEA stuff. ah some It's a challenge to get around the shop and out safely. Oh, yeah. It's like a labyrinth. Yes. But um yeah, no, love love good I IKEA hot dogs as well. Oh, yeah. I was just so going to mention that. And the meatballs. And the meatballs are good. I'm happy to hear.
Fred's Paranormal Journey Begins
00:04:50
Speaker
So i mean I guess before we go on to your book and your other work,
00:04:54
Speaker
Everyone tell us how this all started for you. your kind of What got you interested all them years ago into the UFO and the wider paranormal subjects? Oh, it's ah it's a long, long story. No, it's a I'd say it's a it's a the it sounds kind of sad, but it's not really, you know, I'm I'm I'm forty seven now. So I'm kind of dealt with everything. But I was raised in. ah ah ah Sorry, you did something here. im
00:05:27
Speaker
I'm the same age as you I was just okay okay okay sorry it's not usually Ash is a lot younger than me well not a lot but he's younger than me so it's it's nice to have somebody of the similar age on yeah that yeah the seniors senior mentors kind of yes not yeah that's something anyway I was raised in a very very strict ah religious environment. You know, we lived kind of secluded, you know, far from from other people. And it was this old village, you can say, from, you know, we had a castle and we had, you know, yeah amazing place, actually.
00:06:09
Speaker
And one thing that was so forbidden you couldn't even speak about it was ghosts UFOs horror all those things that I came to love so I think I think I believe that.
00:06:24
Speaker
I kind of got interested in it because it was so forbidden. Because, you know, they always said, you shouldn't touch that subject, you shouldn't read those books. And, you know, I'm a kid. So of course I read those books. and I had a very, very kind mother ah who bought me my, or bought, I i don't know if she found it, my first UFO book, which is a Swedish book by Ocean Semichov, which is a quite skeptical book, actually, it's more skeptical than anything else. But it's still a good book. And it triggered my imagination. ah You know, I was ah was at a very sensitive age, so everything like this was like, whoa.
00:07:05
Speaker
ah So that's where where I first read about, you know, Lonnie Zamora and the Socorro case and all the all these classic observations and encounters all over the world. And, you know, it's stayed with me ever since. so But with that said, there was a just tell me if I'm going to stop here.
00:07:31
Speaker
There was ah a number of years when I was kind of faced out with, you know, I was growing up, I did other things, I was trying to get a job, I was, you know, dealing with myself and I kind of... I kind of drifted out of the subject. It was just the fun books in the shelves and nothing else. And then many years ago, I got a job doing, I was a segment producer because I started to work in television. So I was a segment producer producer for a show called Theat Ushanda, The Unknown, which is ah well was the longest longest running paranormal show in in Sweden. And I did 50 episodes.
00:08:14
Speaker
that And during that time, during that time, I interviewed so many people. And you know, you sit and chat with people all day long, and you're drinking their coffee, and you're you're you're listening to them. And something started to grow inside my head, you know, that this is this is, people have these experiences.
00:08:38
Speaker
And it really, to be honest for me, it really doesn't matter if it's a misidentification or a dream or whatever, but they have these experiences which in many ways have changed them profoundly. And I found that so amazing. you know And it sounded more fun you know than the old religion ah religion from my teens. you know it This was something else.
00:09:06
Speaker
So I kind of dived into this object and I got stuck once again and here I
Notable UFO Cases in Sweden
00:09:11
Speaker
am today. So. Excellent. and There's some things that they want to come on to in a bit that copy you cover in your block. But I guess if we talk about Sweden, that's not a country that we really kind of covered up covered before. Obviously we're in the UK broadcast. 10.6 kind of UK stuff.
00:09:31
Speaker
So interesting to kind of hear about some of the kind of maybe the more famous instances in Sweden. Obviously got the Night of the UFOs from 1970 to 1974, which is quite famous. Well, that's kind of the only one that I kind of knew about. And then it was in your book as well. I guess let's start with that one. I'm going to give maybe a brief rundown of that night.
00:09:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a beautiful case, I think, because it has so many details, so many, many. It's one of those cases.
00:10:07
Speaker
the Valentina UFO flap, as we call it, too, where it has so many parts, so many witnesses, so many details, that it's very, very hard to deny that something really happened that night. It was actually over two two nights, but the main events happened the second night. And this was the 23rd and 24th of March, 1974. And It began with, you know, the main event began with Hilary V. Ann Deschamps, who was a lady, she was 36 years old at the time, and she tried to reach her treat tried to reach her parents, who lived like nine kilometers away.
00:10:53
Speaker
She couldn't reach them and she got worried, so she stuffed her kids in the car and drove all the way home to her parent home. On the way, they noticed that there was a bright light following following them on the side, and she didn't think that much about it at the time.
00:11:16
Speaker
But when she arrived to the house, she met her her parents or her father on the porch and her face her father was so pissed off because the television was broken, the telephone lines were were were we down, nothing worked, there was electrical interference, you know. And as the salmon there on the porch talking, they see on the other side of of the road over what you call it, though you you get to sand, you know, like a
00:11:49
Speaker
gravel, sand, place. I don't know the English word for it here. And they see a big object. It's like ah the size of a bus, one of those public transportation transportation buses.
00:12:04
Speaker
and is hovering above the forest. And she can kind of sense three window-like or at least lid-like patterns on the side. And up from the ground comes beams, three beams that goes up from the ground ah ground and into the ship or the craft or whatever it was itself.
00:12:26
Speaker
And here we have the whole family. yeah We have Hitler, her kids, and her parents are all standing watching this object very, very close to them. The kids get some very, very scared. And when the object fli flies away,
00:12:45
Speaker
She decides to, okay, it because Hillary is a very, very curious lady. She still is. She's in her 80s now and she she finds this so fascinating. She really wanted to go and tell her brother about this. And he lived like five kier kilometers away. So they go there and they don't see the UFO or anything like that.
00:13:05
Speaker
When they arrive, they meet a brother and his wife on the porch, and they're asking, what's this bright that's following you, bright light that is following you? And they turn around and they see that the object is back. You know, it's kind of stalking them.
00:13:20
Speaker
Hillary gets even more curious. So she grabs the poor kids, stuffs them in the car, and she drives kinda, she tries to basically to chase down the UFO until she stops right under it, kinda right under it. And she and her kids experience how a strong, bright light is coming into the car or covering the car. The daughter,
00:13:48
Speaker
who I had a pleasure to talk with last year, ah told me that she had this urge, there was like a voice telling her to leave the car and go to the light. Of course her mother didn't want to this to happen so they drove away and the the the whole event was over. It was, I mean, during this night there was like I think the police got around 80, 90 reports from a concerned ah public out there that ah that there was something moving around, that there was a strange bright light. And the night before, actually, there was an alleged abduction.
00:14:29
Speaker
Why I mentioned that later is that I'm a bit skeptical about it. It was a guy named Justa Häger who had been out partying. So he was pretty drunk, to be honest. And he was ah walking along it a gravel road somewhere when he saw a bright light coming at him from from a from the field. And it kind of strikes him.
00:14:53
Speaker
And then he wakes up outside his home, outside his door. And later in some kind of hypnosis regression session, he starts telling these stories about meeting what he describes as Native Americans, basically. They kind of look like that, but they are transparent. and i mean This whole case was ah it was a big thing at the time. You had very reliable witnesses. The military were was there doing a secret operation to try to figure out what it was.
00:15:29
Speaker
you had ah you had the police involved ah ah there was many many witnesses and it's still one of those own unsolved mysteries we have in Sweden there is no logical explanation to it i'm sure some of the lights that was seen maybe it was airplanes or a planet or something like that but the whole there were so many close-up close-up witness reports to this but the Hilivi Hilivam Dechon part of this is absolutely still today amazing there it's it's you know i mean i mean oh i was kind of starstruck when i met her actually i was like who that that's cool and i kind of got a two-part question i guess following on from this is so one is
00:16:20
Speaker
was there any kind of official government or military investigation or we report on it? And following on from that question, as the Swedish or does the Swedish government ever kind of had like a UFO desk or any kind of official investigation into into this type of stuff? There was a a report ah from this event, but it was kind of half official.
00:16:45
Speaker
it it actually have a top secret stamp on it, but it's handwritten by someone. and it It was in the archives for a very, very very long time. And I think it was Klaus von, who is the chairman of Ufus Veria, who finally got it out. And it's mainly interesting because the military, under spare time in this case,
00:17:10
Speaker
ah gathered a lot of other witness reports, not only from this night, but from the years before, basically, in this specific area. So some will say this is a window area for for for UFOs and similar things. ah It also describes how they ah plan to try to capture this light, you know, on either by witness witnessing it themselves or, you know, on some kind of equipment.
00:17:40
Speaker
they didn't succeed. that They had three stations with military staff on, of course, he three different places, like ah they did a triangular thing on it.
Sweden's UFO Organizations and Archives
00:17:54
Speaker
It's interesting reading, but it it doesn't reveal anything amazing, really. One thing, that sorry, one thing I did just wanted to say is that that one piece of detail where the lights went up Has that been any other kind of sort of witnesses that have said similar things to other UFO reports? I haven't found any and anything like that in in in Sweden. not ah you and Not during this night and not outside ah outside of that. this is This is to me a very unique detail, which also makes it, you know, when
00:18:39
Speaker
um I'm thinking a lot, you know, when when when people imagine things or when they hallucinate or lie, they kind of tend to describe what people expect from an event like this. They would probably describe the beings from going down from the UFO, you know, to scan the ground or whatever.
00:19:02
Speaker
So that's one of the details that makes me think that this is the real deal, whatever that is. There was really an unknown phenomenon out there. Of course, it's important that the family themselves, who everyone today, so many years after, more than 50 years after, still keeps to, you know, they stick to the story. There's no changes in in anything.
00:19:30
Speaker
so It's a good one. It is a good one. and but regarding Regarding UFO desk, the Swedish swedish military military had for I think for since the 40s or 50s at least one person sitting at their headquarters receiving UFO reports but and these have often been very very skeptical guys who always always had the explanation that it was a balloon so even at the time
00:20:02
Speaker
With that said, there's been really good people working there with a keen interest interested in the subject, but even today, and I mean this has started to happen maybe 20, 30 years ago, they just send these reports directly to UFOSFERIA, the main organization for UFO questions, so and we take care of them instead because When it comes to this question, we have better resources and more qualified people to work on it. But I believe there's still one administrator there who takes care of these kinds of things, but it ends up at our place. Why you mentioned it, I guess, obviously, Class 1. I've got to try to pronounce it. I've tried to pronounce it, isn't it?
00:20:51
Speaker
and you've alsour surveyin that why The UFO archive. yeah yeah sweet Obviously very big, quite a famous archive. A lot of people that I know in the UK research have sent a lot of their stuff over to you guys. What's kind of...
00:21:11
Speaker
I mean, I have my own UFO organization. We're one of the biggest in the UK. We have the biggest database in the UK or something like that. So there's lots of you guys, like you in class and guys over in like Peter Dal from Popip like that. Look kind of what you guys are doing and trying to do similar stuff basically. So what what's kind of like working with with class and that that organization. but Please say that again.
00:21:36
Speaker
It's what it's like kind of working with class one and the group itself. yeah oh yeah it's ah it's it's a I usually described us as, you know, most of us looks like people who collect stamps, you know, and are that kind of nerd. it's We're talking nerds here. We're talking science nerds. We're talking history nerds. ah So it's a very, very familiar, ah warm feeling to work with and in Ulfus Varia.
00:22:10
Speaker
um
00:22:13
Speaker
yeah I mean, it's I recently started an account on BlueSky for the organization. and I decided quite quickly that our my main focus here won't won't be to show us as cool UFO hunters or whatever you know we're nerds we're super nerds you know and I mean if if I'm a nerd and my colleagues are a nerd I mean Klaus von is the super nerd I mean but I mean he's like the mother mother nerd of of them all
00:22:45
Speaker
Klaus is an amazing researcher and journalist.
The Art of UFO Research: Balancing Skepticism and Belief
00:22:52
Speaker
his read i mean First of all, he's he's not afraid to get disappointed. I mean, if he finds a logical, ah good answer to a mystery, he will you know that that is it. you know I mean, he's not really yeah I mean, even I can, you know, soften my words when it comes to explaining that what the witnesses saw was probably just Starlink or or or ah or the moon. you know ah you know it's its You know, you don't want to pull people down. ah But Klaus has this gift to talk about this without, you know,
00:23:33
Speaker
hurt hurting people you know without without being rude. hes so scientific He's so scientific actually that he's been accused many times to be a debunker or a professional skeptic.
00:23:49
Speaker
very, very recently in Swedish television in a documentary where some, excuse me, mad people described him as a CIA agent. um Me too, by the way, we said bizarre. But that's kinda, it's it's very, very far from the truth, I would say. I mean, what we do in Ufosvalia is to look for those two to 3% of cases that we can't explain.
00:24:17
Speaker
that's the most important thing and along the way you have all these dots in the skies and you have starlink or airplanes in the distance or whatever but then we have those two three percent at the end and those makes our hearts tick a lot extra you know so we were on the hunt for those you can say true misters yeah definitely likewise for us and we get over 100 reports made swells every year and like they say 99 of them 100 we can explain and it's that one 100 that we look for you just got to go through that process of yeah sort of solving it solving it solving it till you find that one in that bit of gem yeah yeah yeah that's what makes it all worthwhile as well going forward they're kind of the same don't say
00:25:13
Speaker
I put put it down, but like one mundane kind of sightings and stuff makes it worth it for that one that you can't explain. Definitely, you know, it's kind of it's it's kind of cool that we, you know, we're so excited when we find something we can't solve. You know, it's I mean, I honestly, I mean, I love mysteries. I don't I personally don't need everything.
00:25:40
Speaker
explain to me. i can I can live with a good mystery. you know so So when I find something I can't explain or I can't you i can't find an answer to what this is, you know it makes me happy.
00:25:52
Speaker
say
00:25:55
Speaker
You mentioned um that when you were younger, that you were told to stay away from the ah topic and stay away from ghosts and whatnot. How is the um the public perception now in Sweden, and like in the 21st century, um compared to how it was before? Because in the UK, probably and we're not quite there like the US is at the moment in terms of full public acceptance of UFOs but there's there's lots of people talking about it now and it's not a taboo subject like it used to be when I was growing up. How is it in Sweden and how has that changed as you've grown up? Well I would say that I mean I was born in 77 so I grew up during the 80s and during that time
00:26:48
Speaker
I think the general idea of people who was interested in UFOs, for example, was that we were tinfoil hats, you know, you know crazy people, basically. Fusveria was working hard to change this during the 80s, which Klaus and the other guys who was in that age ah did very, very well.
00:27:11
Speaker
My, i mean we we I mean, we also had a satanic panic here in Sweden, so everything that even touched upon the occult or weird was satan so satanic or dangerous or whatever. Then the night this came, now I sound so old, but you know, I'm just, now I'm just, this is stuff that's happening when I was a teenager.
00:27:32
Speaker
ah
00:27:34
Speaker
i i It felt like there was, ah the interest in the subject in general specifically the paranormal ghost spirits etc peaked a little bit in the 90s and ah I would say since then it's slowly getting better. The interest for UFOs has clearly peaked in Sweden the last five years or since 2017 of course when the the Pentagon stuff came.
00:28:06
Speaker
we yeah There's been documentaries, there's been several several new podcasts, newspapers has have written about but it, but of course compared to the United States it's it's very very but you know very very very little of this stuff and and still still to a tiny bit it's like you you consider a little bit weird when you're interested in this but it's with that said I've got an only great response when I mentioned that I oh i deal with you and those and ghosts and people say oh that's cool so yeah there is a change absolutely last year I was working on the documentary show ah for Tevafira a four-part
00:28:50
Speaker
show a series where we kind of try to portray or explain the phenomenon and UFO culture. So I was the researcher and I was a little bit in front of the camera and we traveled around, we met witnesses,
00:29:07
Speaker
i would heard but told about their their the incidents they had. We traveled to the United States, met some some people that might be a little bit crazy, and we met people who are very, very smart and very, very you know logical. So we tried to bring in the whole spectrum of of of this into four ah four episodes.
00:29:30
Speaker
And it got very, very well received and people appreciated that we did try to do a balanced show about it. We didn't try to push a specific agenda or or and we didn't want to debunk anything, but we didn't want to believe in everything either. And I think that helped a lot you know to push it even more into the mainstream to something that people can be interested in without you know feeling silly or ashamed. So, and I hope it will, I mean,
00:30:02
Speaker
There's still an interest interest for the subject in Sweden without a doubt. you
The Beckron Incident and Men in Black Connections
00:30:06
Speaker
know And I'm working on a new show right now, another four-parter about our paranormal events in Sweden ah for the same channel. So that just shows that there is an interest. People want to see these things and they want to see something serious about it.
00:30:26
Speaker
nice one and I guess I wanted to ask is there any kind of other cases that maybe deserve to be a bit more well-known maybe to the likes of say Rendlesham or the Titac incident are there any kind of serious cases that you think should be up there that people should sort of know about in places like America in the UK?
00:30:46
Speaker
o There is, I mean, of course, we have one that's up there, I would say, and that's the ghost rocket flap of 1946. It's quite old, of course, but it's still a genuine mystery. I mean, it's absolutely unexplainable. But I would like to say there was an event in 1999, I think it was,
00:31:08
Speaker
ninety nine where we call it the Bäckron incident. ah it was ah It was a summer day, I think, I think it was the 27th of July. And this was in Värmland, which is this fantastic part of Sweden, where you just have forests and lakes everywhere. It's like fairy tale country. And There was a family that had a cab in there and the whole family was out there. Adult kids and and two parents and they were, you know, chilling normal summer day when they when they hear a huge roar.
00:31:52
Speaker
up from the from the air from the sky and they see the witness description differs a little bit but one describes it as a triangular shape maybe three three four meters in diameter one of them describes it more like a rocket And they see it right above them, you know, it coming down over the forest over them and it goes out in the lake. And just when it's about to hit the forest on the other side of the lake, it takes a um ah left turn and down into the water of the lake.
00:32:31
Speaker
And you had witnesses all around the lake. People heard this and they saw this. There's there no question that there was something that crashed or landed in the lake. They called, of course, the police at first. They thought it was some normal aircraft or something like that.
00:32:52
Speaker
And after a while ah military contacted them and started a military operation there that I think the first one was like one week and then they had a break and then there was like a two, three week period when they were literally scanning, you know, they were diving, they were searching the the whole lake.
00:33:11
Speaker
they found nothing, they claim, the conspiracy says that they actually took something from the lake. So it's I would say it's it's probably one of the most convincing cases we we have there because of the amount of witnesses and it's good witnesses, really really good witnesses and they did the report directly and the police and police and the military did one almost directly to Klaus, who was of course active here in 99. He heard about this maybe a week or two, a couple of weeks after. So, yeah because it was like, she just mentioned in the local news that there were something crashing a lake, but no one really, you know, made a connection with the UFO.
00:33:59
Speaker
So, specifically, Klaus has been investigating this a lot. ah Incredibly fascinating case. I had a pleasure to visit the location in 2023, together with Klaus and the family.
00:34:14
Speaker
and but this was for the documentary TV show and we brought some high-tech equipment there and we were scanning the bottom of the lake ah trying to find something and we we didn't find anything actually it was like it's bizarre and it was so close because we found um on the monitor we saw a triangular shape in the same size you know basically at the place where it should probably have stopped underwater. And we send our TV host and a couple of divers go out there and they find bizarrely enough a triangular shaped rock standing in this position. It almost looks like it has drag marks after, you know, marks you know in and and but in the bottom of the sand.
00:35:03
Speaker
So, failure, but we didn't find any UFO, but it's oh it's one of those cases. It's so much mystery around it and it's so tangible somehow. I really think it belongs up among the best, in in if you look at it from that direction at least.
00:35:24
Speaker
Amazing. so So your book, which is Northern Lights, High Straters in Sweden, it kept me company on my holiday last week. I finished it off while I was on the sun lounges ah reading. So it's not just UFOs in this book. It's kind of a bit of a mixture. You've got kind of a bit of a crypt in there, trolls, so many black in there. So I found it really an interesting action. and I wanted to ask you.
00:35:48
Speaker
to kind of talk about the, and the personal many black go experiences I had. I found that chapter really, really interesting. So I'd like to kind of hear it from the author's mouth as it was. It was really good chapter. Yeah. absolutely Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Oh.
00:36:08
Speaker
I've told this a couple of times and I'm never sure if it sounds as creepy as it really was, ah you know, because when you when you experience something and you you've been talking about it and after a while you're thinking, and maybe it's just me being paranoid here or something, you know, it's like, is it me who's going crazy, but um I'm gonna try.
00:36:31
Speaker
I need to try to remember some detail details though. I think it began one day when I was home. I was home alone. My my partner at the time was away and I was chilling in the sofa. And I noticed, maybe I'm throwing the details around here. I noticed how the cats were reacting to something out in the hallway, you know like they were looking at something.
00:37:00
Speaker
and i was And they were very, very focused. And I was like, what's what's what's happening? you know And i I go to the hall and I see how the door handle is moving slowly up and down. It it feels like a horror movie, basically. probably And I'm like, what's going on? So I'm i'm um looking out to the peephole, you call it like that.
00:37:26
Speaker
And I see a man standing pretty close to the door, of course, because he was trying to open it. And he was... it was kind I was kind of shocked because, you know, I never experienced something like this. And after a while I'm stupid enough, so i'm open I open the door and and i I ask him, hey, who do you do you want to talk with someone? Is someone you're looking for? And he only says, Luam.
00:37:55
Speaker
l o a m loam And I'm like, no, there's there's no Loam here, you know, it's no Loam. And he keeps coming back for... ah I don't know how many weeks, a bunch of weeks, you can say. And he's standing outside the door. He tries to get in into the apartment during night. He stands outside our balcony and he always says, Luam, Luam. And of course, the the the thing what but got me so paranoid is that at the moment I had begun researching Swedish men in black stories.
00:38:35
Speaker
experiences and I was deep into this I was like because there's very few of them very very few of them so I was like what's what's what's you
Interconnectedness of Paranormal Phenomena
00:38:44
Speaker
know I yeah I was total focus on that so he kind of appeared in this in this in this context I remember now I actually met him before he tried to open the door and I think it was earlier the day or the day before maybe and I was walking home from from the store and I was passing this guy and I didn't really think about him of course but I noticed I felt that he was stopping behind me and he was turning around so I stopped and I looked around and he was standing you know like a robot
00:39:19
Speaker
you know, with his hands straight down and he was just looking at me. And i i I just walked home and he was following me. And every time I turned around, he was standing there like a robot staring at me. and Yeah, that's, yeah. um And there was also, off i I almost said the F word here. It's,
00:39:45
Speaker
because i was i also made I was also reading about Alistair Crowley at the same time, I was looking into the history of weirdness in general and I came to think about his his his drawing of Lum, the alien-like being with a big head. It might be a self-portrait of him but it's some kind of being, a channel, channel it some kind of otherworldly alien intelligence. And the name of this was LAM. LAM is a different spelling of loam, loam, which is a kind of mud. I managed to find that. And actually, to be honest, I'm i'm a bit embarrassed to say it, but I don't remember my the connection I made to mud here in the in
00:40:34
Speaker
I came to the Men in Black, but I got involved in some bizarre thinking around it. Men in Black, Aleister Crowley, general high weirdness around me. I think there was a couple of months after.
00:40:53
Speaker
there was another synchronicity happening in connection to this. I was, I don't remember the correct order, but I got an email from a friend in Norway who sent me a couple of photos on big footprints in the snow. And we were joking that this this was troll footprints. Of course, it's Norway, so it's it'ss it's trolls and not Bigfoot. So it's quite cool photos anyway.
00:41:21
Speaker
And then a couple of hours I got an email from a British production company who made a show called, I think it's unexplained caught on camera or paranormal caught on camera or something like that. And they asked me if they could use a photo my partner had taken at the time, which is of me. And I'm standing and it looks exactly like a troll behind me. It's kind of a pareidolia effect, you know, you see patterns.
00:41:50
Speaker
but they really wanted the troll photo and they asked if they could use it in the show. And I said, yeah, of course, it's fine. So all that two troll things at the same time.
00:42:02
Speaker
Later in the evening I'm going to the store and I'm just about to ah come to that place where I saw the man outside the last time where he was standing looking at me. And on the exact same spot I see something on the ground and I i move closer and I'm just like, what what is this? It looks like a little human.
00:42:23
Speaker
and I go really close and I see that it's a wooden troll. it's ah Someone had carved a troll um from wood and put it there and I still have it somewhere in that park the apartment, of course I need to save. So that's of that that connection to Men in Black is of course a bit far-fetched. I can hear that now when I'm like But for me, when I was in this kind of reality or in in this experience, it was very, very it very very powerful. you know
00:42:56
Speaker
And it was scary, especially with this guy. he He later disappeared, and I haven't seen him ever since. so And i never I've never understood really what he meant with Luam. Was it a name? was it was it ah Was it connected to to Lam and and Crowley? Was it something else? I have no idea. But just because it was in my man in black period and I had this experience, I i call him my man in black. you know My man in black.
00:43:26
Speaker
that's Fascinating and creepy in a balance that's scary as anything like that. I didn't sound too insane I hope now when I really don't know that. Not at all. good
00:43:43
Speaker
So coming on to kind of other, you mentioned high strangeness a couple of times. In your in your research, after we've been doing the podcast,
00:43:55
Speaker
we kind of been joining up the dots a lot more, whereas when we first started it was I was kind of like UFOs, UFOs, ghost to ghost, cryptids or different segments. But now we know, well, believe pretty much that they are all connected. It's kind of what kind of your thoughts on the different phenomenons and how they are linked together. What's your thoughts on that? I, without getting to mumbo jumbo. I will try to explain my view on it because it's of course it's a highly personal view which is shared by many other people. But I i feel at least in in in my heart, I feel that the the phenomenon that we see, maybe not everything but most of it is so deeply connected to us humans.
00:44:52
Speaker
it's often a profoundly personal experience when people see and hear and encounter stuff ah you know outside. So that's why I'm i quite skeptical that we're talking about you know nuts and bolts UFOs and and you know physical creatures or or something like that. I think that When we experience stuff, we kind of experience and see and hear what we need to experience at that very moment.
00:45:24
Speaker
And what that's that's clearly and not an answer but because I can't you know explain why and how that works. But for me, it's mostly because I've been interviewing so many people and I've been reading so much and I've been writing so much.
00:45:38
Speaker
So that's basically, for me, the only answer I have. you know This is a human phenomenon, which doesn't mean it's you know you know like a hallucination or imagination only or something. I think it's just something that's very, very interlinked with us, you know whatever it is.
00:46:01
Speaker
um I kind of see our you know our consciousness is kind of painting the reality around us and and and when when when we when but maybe when we need something to happen, maybe it's subconscious or not.
00:46:18
Speaker
It will happen, hopefully, at least if we're open to it. I've recently been analyzing my book because I wrote it in quite a frenzy. So I'm like, what what did I write now? And OK, now I lost my chain of thought here. Yeah, my my main conclusion, actually, it's kind of now I'm going into a different question a little bit here.
00:46:47
Speaker
I feel and I can see and read that the the the the best way to experience stuff is when you're alone or when you're in a silent environment, a peaceful environment, when you're alone with your own thoughts or you're alone with yourself.
00:47:10
Speaker
I mean most cases in my book is set in forests or on country roads or you know far from the big cities because I feel that when you're out there and you're alone you are you kind of becomes more open you you kind of goes almost like into a subtle trance in how you deal with the reality around you which just makes you see and notice stuff that you wouldn't do in any other cases. I mean even together with a friend you will get distracted but if you're alone you can focus in a very you know very very
00:47:53
Speaker
strict way on these things. So yeah, my I'm i'm i'm um one of those you know more esoteric guys when it comes to you know how I think the phenomenon works.
00:48:11
Speaker
Cool. So so i've I've got a question. win going back to like what I said that we when we first started we were UFO encrypted parent um like ghosts and spirits um over the years we've spoken to many people who say have a UFO experience or UAP experience but when we talked to them about how it all started and um what they they actually tended to have like a paranormal experience when they were younger or growing up they lived in a house that experienced things or their parents did
00:48:48
Speaker
and Have you noticed any kind of pattern like that when looking at some of the UFO events that have happened in Sweden?
Fred's Personal Unexplained Experiences
00:48:57
Speaker
um Or any cases where they they seem to have some kind of sort of lifetime of paranormal, as like an umbrella really?
00:49:08
Speaker
i I personally I mostly noticed that people have a tendency to have ah paranormal experiences unrelated to the UFO experience, you know, in and around, you know, or after um I think I mentioned one case where there's two teenagers teenagers who meets a little alien-like creature on a country road. And before that, it's almost like they're in a haunted you know haunted house movie. they They pass an old house and the strange lights and shadows and sounds. It's very, very spooky. And then this happens, you know something drastically different.
00:49:50
Speaker
One, one that's kind of the opposite in that way is if we go back to the Hillebian Dachon and the Valentina UFO flap of 74. And I didn't know this until I talked with her. She has mentioned it, you know, afterwards she told me about the experience and everything and then she said something like, oh, I died here once.
00:50:15
Speaker
And I was like, what? ah And she told me how, when she was a child, on the exact same spot where the she and her family saw the UFO, on the exact same spot, yeah she drowned when she was like five or six years old. And her dad saved her. He he lifted her up from the water. And her memory of that was that she had the most beautiful experience drowning you know when when she was dead or or at least very, ah very, very, very unconscious. She saw lights and she you know it was a very, very peaceful thing. For me, that this was like, wow, I mean, this is you have a
00:50:59
Speaker
a clear connection to the spot and it's I don't know if you guys have read Yoshua Kachen's and his Ecology of Souls book which you should read it's it's a fantastic book where he connects he connects these kind of phenomenon mostly fairies and and other things with death and dying and I really dig his view on it, that that having a profound experience, a paranormal experience, is it's some kind of it's some it's is connected to your own death, your own dying, and and processing that. But I'm not the expert on that. He's he's the one who's written two books about it. ah So anyway, the one with Hillary struck me as extra powerful.
00:51:52
Speaker
I also have a friend, his name is Eric, a great guy who had also a series of events. It's quite many over a couple of years where I think he and his family saw a bright light. It seemed like it was landing or crashing in the forest. And after that, they had you know multiple episodes of of you know weird sounds and shadows and strange feelings, not really are really really related to aliens or something like that. But I would consider them paranormal experiences.
00:52:29
Speaker
And the last thing that happened was that they visited their old home again, and they were sitting drinking coffee, and they were looking down at the forest, because the forest was was a little bit down. And they suddenly could see that there was a ah big circle you know area that with with dead grass, you know like ah like a classic you know UFO landing spot, basically.
00:52:53
Speaker
ah So it was like a full circle there from from seeing this light to all these weird things in the middle and then see what they think was the landing landing traces.
00:53:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I can come up with at the moment. But yeah, i there is absolutely. we I mean, one thing, and I think everyone who investigates UFOs should do this is when you do interviews with witnesses, you should always ask, have you experienced something else? And as you probably know, guys, everyone has, basically everyone has experienced something really weird.
00:53:33
Speaker
Definitely. It's just a shame it's not more openly talked about, because it's like like like say when you dig into it, even though a lot of people will kind of dismiss it and stuff, when you actually sort of go a bit deeper, yeah go you always go, actually. It's happened um but or this happens to my mum or my dad or something. there's always Everyone always has some story or some sort. Yeah, it's still quite widely dismissed. which is and think I think that ah probably a thousand people have said this before, but I think the the that many, I'm not saying everyone, but many UFO researchers and investigators, they want they want to be seen as as serious as possible. And then they focus on Jewish and military stuff, you know, they want to be, you know. And and then when when the poor with this want to tell them about that weird monster they saw or a ghost, you know,
00:54:30
Speaker
in the kitchen, they kind of, oh, I don't want to touch this. um That's my, my my maybe ah I can't find the words now, but that's my my opinion. opinion
00:54:45
Speaker
that That's great. What about your own experiences, either paranormal or UFO, your identity? noteable and instance i in In normal life, normal life i mean outside sitting talking with two great guys here in a podcast, I often say, no, no, no, I haven't experienced that anything. And then I often um remember, yeah, I have experienced a couple of things.
00:55:10
Speaker
I do not want to say that I then i think these are you know supernatural or paranormal, because I don't know. I really don't know. So I don't want to you know fool myself. But some of them were really, really strange. um I'd say there's two two incidents that really struck me, three actually. But I can tell about them quickly, because or else I will get boring.
00:55:37
Speaker
um One was actually during the making of a paranormal show and we were visiting a small house in the south of Sweden that was very, very haunted. And the family complained that there were ghosts in the garden outside the house, a guy or a a figure, a shadow people, shadow people, basically, you know, with with a black hat and, you know, silhouettes, very, very black and sinister.
00:56:05
Speaker
So I was standing there talking with them in the middle of the day or early afternoon and the sun was still high. I'm talking with the mother and daughter outside. And suddenly I see this freaking shadow guy sticking out his ugly head and shoulders and upper body from a very, very narrow tree, from behind a very, very narrow tree. You know, you couldn't hide behind it. Absolutely impossible. And there was like far away to other trees. So you couldn't hide in the bushes or anything.
00:56:38
Speaker
And that was a very, very solid shadow person. I could clearly see the head, the shoulders, the upper body, maybe a hat, but now I'm starting to think maybe I've added the hat afterwards.
00:56:55
Speaker
you know so and it was so clear it was so clear i've never seen anything like it and i remember i told the family like oh i saw him now and they said yeah he's always here but it was important for me because I finally got to see what they saw what you know paranormal witnesses saw so I could you know I could paint myself a picture what what is this you know and I still can't you know figure it out.
00:57:28
Speaker
At one time I got my leather bag literally ripped apart by something. I was alone outside on a bridge. I was walking and this this bag gets pulled from my body. This is really, really violent and the the the metal parts in it are, you know, connected. this sounds It looks like something else, but it's kind of connected like this.
00:57:53
Speaker
but ah with a ah kind of ah ah metal ball here. So you can't even pull it out because it's stuck here. Anyway, it pulled it out. I still have it in the basement somewhere because I can't figure out how that happened. So the bag was torn from my body. And like the moment after, i i my body starts to shake.
00:58:15
Speaker
it's it's freezing it's like uh you know you're outside in the naked and in the in the winter you know it's it's like i've you know the whole especially whole back and i'm i'm i'm my my teeth are shaking it's it's awful it's horrible I have no idea what that was. I can mention one last thing. This was, I believe, in 2019. So it was just right before the pandemic pandemic and everything like that. Then we were out barbecuing one night.
00:58:50
Speaker
a couple of kilometers from where I live. It's a beautiful spot, you know, you have a fantastic forest, you have old grave mounds, and you know, it's like, whoa, it's amazing. And you have this this field in in front of this. And out on this field, you see deers and foxes. It's one of my favorite places in the world, actually. And we're barbecuing Polish sausages there and drinking beer.
00:59:16
Speaker
Until we notice out on this dark field, there's no lights or anything like that. Well, there is one light because outside on the field we see a huge circle of light. It's very, very big. It's in the middle of the field.
00:59:33
Speaker
And it's really it really sticks out. you know and be's like And it's flat, so it's it's not like a beam coming from there from from from from the sky or anything. It's just on the ground, a huge circle light.
00:59:49
Speaker
and And we've been here hundreds of times. I mean, this is a place I know like the back of my hand. This is like, I've never seen anything like this. And we were standing looking at this and I remember I remember how we so fast lost interest in this super strange phenomenon. All of us had cameras, for example. No one took a single photo of this. I took photos from this evening, and I still have them. And on every photo, I just cropped out that section of the field. So just see you know you see everything except this circle of light.
01:00:31
Speaker
And that struck me, I mean, years after. you know life why why Why didn't we take photos of this? Why didn't we even go and examine this?
Impact of US UFO Disclosures and Personal Insights
01:00:41
Speaker
And i believe me, i'm I'm there every summer, every spring, every autumn, and I'm still looking for this circle. It's never appeared again. I have no idea what that was, but it's weird.
01:00:54
Speaker
Strange one, thank you for sharing and that. And I guess one last question from me is, if anything has happened recently in the US, especially with disclosure, all this stuff, all these whistleblowers, all this stuff happening kind of officially, do you see kind of a change coming up in the ufology field to how it's been the past couple of decades, or do you think it's just going to be keep them talking over there but nothing's actually going to happen. What kind of your thoughts or opinions on that if any? Well i mean I mean honestly I was also excited when when first the Pentagon videos came and it was like what what is this strange stuff and and Grosch came.
01:01:36
Speaker
which was very, very intriguing. I mean, I sat there watching the, the you know, this, what do you say in English, interrogation or this, whatever it was, debate. um I followed all that because I was like, here's a guy sitting in Congress or Senate or whatever it is, and he's telling all these weird things. And then you have all these other people coming out from the woodwork and they tell all of their weird things.
01:02:03
Speaker
And for the first time and in my in my life, I was like, hmm, maybe there is you know some real disclosure coming here. Maybe it something is going on. I remember talking with Klaus, and Klaus is a very irrational guy and still is. And he said, yeah, I mean, for once he also thought that, yes, something was going on. Maybe there is some kind of change coming here.
01:02:30
Speaker
with that said I'm not really impressed then how how what happened afterwards because it feels like the same thing has happened over and over again and it feels like it feels like a rehash of earlier disclosures from the 40s and up you know it's the same same story being told basically you know a new a new ex-military a new insider so at the moment I'm I feel that Whatever it is, if there is a disclosure or not, if there is something to to reveal you know or or not, it's still you know it's still on the same spot. It's not moving forward. I'm i'm kind of tired of of all of them who goes out on Twitter and says that next week, next week, there will be the biggest revelation ever.
01:03:26
Speaker
um i mean i am um so um um I don't want sound like a party pooper or anything, but I have a hard time you know taking in that information at the moment. What what do you guys think?
01:03:39
Speaker
I'm very much the same. I use the term jaded recently. And and that was that was just before the egg video come out. It was like the day of that. People were like, are you going to stay up and watch it? I was like, no, because it's going to be nothing. I'm notm not even interested interested in it. I don't even want to. I let everyone go mad on Twitter. Let everyone get hyped up on Twitter. If it's something good, if I find that in the morning.
01:04:03
Speaker
but it's not going to be so I'm not getting excited about it. It's just like saying the same thing happening, the same people pushing the same kind of come come on my Instagram, come on my Twitter, come and see. So it's just the same people doing the same stuff. And yeah, it's tiring. It is tired, tired of it. It really is. yeah Yeah, it sure is, you know. But because of that, I feel it's even more important to do what I do or you do or Klaus do or all us non, you know, non Jeremy Korbel type kind of guys to focus on what I consider the the the most interesting cases where you have the personal experiences you have that you have excuse me if we use the word normal people, you know, there's just people like you and me
01:04:58
Speaker
out there seeing stuff and experience stuff. And those kind of witnesses have kind of become forgotten a little bit in all these disclosure talks during the last couple of years. It's like, and I'm like, no, I rather listen to a farmer who has seen a flying saucer on his field and yet another pilot or whatever, you know. Definitely. I did a talk in Wales ah a couple of years ago, and yeah, we're doing a Q and&A with the audience.
01:05:27
Speaker
And one of them asked me, like if disclosure happened or came out, like what would you do? like How would you carry on? I was like, well, I'll just do the same thing. We speak to witnesses. We give a place where people can tell their story. We listen to them. We try and find out what it is they saw. We do monthly meetups where people come to a public place and talk about it. And none of that would change. it just given more emphasis to could keep going because we're like I say we're there for the for the experience there for the personal people that haven't got anywhere to tell their story that's we're there for people I've never told their story in 30 years come and tell it to us that's what I do it for that's that's that's to me is what my ufology my
01:06:10
Speaker
my research is about is that you the individual going back to what you said earlier it's all very personal to personal experiences and that's what we try and do is that to give that service a guess at service to that person that has somewhere to talk about their story and that's what we are proud to to do in in our organizations that's yeah that's awesome. I'm getting goosebumps it's amazing they're I think there's also a difference between disclosure, like the US government admitting that these things are real. There's a difference between that and somebody who's had this lifelong or one-off life-changing experience where some think that they won't be able to speak about.
01:07:00
Speaker
has happened to them, and I don't think that the general public are ready quite for that disclos that type of disclosure. Aliens real and UFOs are real, for example, is one conversation. Being abducted, having these close-up, undeniable, but life-changing experiences, I think is a whole other level, and I think the general public is is not quite there yet so I think that the service that you guys do and no ash does
01:07:33
Speaker
And that is to still going to be there. There's still going to be those those type of experiences. And I think that will never change.
Conclusion and Follow Fred Online
01:07:42
Speaker
um And I don't think we'll ever get that full disclosure that this this stuff's happening. Oh, that's that's that's great. Great said. I might borrow it to something. you know no and Absolutely. it's I completely agree. Completely agree.
01:07:59
Speaker
Amazing. Well, thank you very much sh tred for staying up late and battling through that for us. Make sure you check out Northern Lights High Strangers in Sweden by Fred Anderson on Amazon. And any sort of links or anything you want to share and that people can find you? Well, you know, if you if you search for Homo satanic, I guess it's Latin for the the satanic man, it sounds very goth and and and dark, but it's not really. Homo satanic on blue sky and Actually, that's the only place where I am really nowadays. ah no So you can find me there. And please, you know, please interact, please write, please comment. You know, I love i love people, most people, not everyone, of course, but in general, I love people. So feel feel free to connect with me. Amazing. oh Thank you so much. yeah Thank you. Thank you.
01:08:57
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal, title music created by Steve Yarwood and Ambienfinity. If you like the show, please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, X, and Instagram. And if you really like the show, please rate and review the show wherever you are listening. It really does help. See you next time, and until then, stay weird.