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The Hard Conversations in Surrogacy
1 Playsin 12 hours
In this episode, we’re joined by reproductive psychologist Dr. Julie Bindeman to explore one of the most difficult, and important, conversations that can arise in a surrogacy journey.
Dr. Bindeman works with intended parents, surrogates, and donors navigating the emotional complexities of third-party reproduction. Together we discuss why some conversations feel hard to approach, why they matter early in the matching process, and how thoughtful communication can help protect everyone involved.
If you're exploring surrogacy as an intended parent or considering becoming a surrogate, this episode offers insight, perspective, and guidance.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Julie Bindeman
00:00:00
Speaker
If you're not aligned in this and you're trying to contort yourself to to try to be in alignment about this, what else are you trying to contort yourself to be in alignment about?
00:00:10
Speaker
That's Dr. Julie Bendeman, a reproductive psychologist who helps intended parents and surrogates navigate some of the most complex decisions in family building. And if you're considering surrogacy, whether you hope to become a parent or you're thinking about becoming a gestational carrier, there's one conversation almost everyone hopes they'll never actually have, but it's one of the most important conversations in the entire journey.
00:00:36
Speaker
It's an uncomfortable conversation and It's a hard conversation to have when you're not in it, when it's all hypothetical.
00:00:47
Speaker
Because when you start exploring surrogacy, it's easy to focus on the hope, the excitement, and the possibility of creating a family.
Navigating Surrogacy Decisions
00:00:57
Speaker
But part of protecting everyone involved, intended parents and surrogates alike, is being willing to talk about the hard things before a match ever happens.
00:01:06
Speaker
These are unlikely to happen, but they are not 0%. And that's why we're talking about it. In this conversation, you'll hear how Dr. Bindaman helps people approach these discussions thoughtfully, how she walks intended parents and surrogates through them trimester by trimester, and why talking about them early can help protect everyone in a surrogacy journey.
00:01:29
Speaker
So if you're exploring surrogacy and want to move forward with clarity, support, and confidence, this conversation is for you.
00:01:45
Speaker
Before we continue, I just want to share that in this episode, we discuss some difficult topics that can arise in surrogacy journeys, including complex medical decisions during pregnancy. Our goal in this conversation is to approach these topics thoughtfully and respectfully so intended parents and surrogates can better understand the importance of discussing them early.
00:02:10
Speaker
I just, I want to dive right So Julie, you specialize in reproductive psychology, which means you sit with people in some of the most emotionally complex moments of their life. Why do you believe that hard conversations belong early in the family building process?
00:02:32
Speaker
So like just from a really like zoomed out level, yeah, most people who are having kids never have these conversations. And so it means that if they are encountering that life event, they have no idea where their partner stands on things because they've never had the conversation before.
00:02:51
Speaker
And thus it means that not only do they have to navigate, hey, wait, we might have differing opinions here, but do so during a crisis. So
Surrogacy Agreements and Legalities
00:03:03
Speaker
I like to have the conversations and I frame it as these are unlikely to happen, but they are not 0%.
00:03:11
Speaker
And that's why we're talking about it. And yeah let this be a spring, like I'm talking to intended parents, I'm like, I want this to be a springboard for the two of you to continue having this conversation.
00:03:23
Speaker
I don't need a final answer today, right? Not jeopardy. Yeah. No, I love that. And I think you're so right. i I think that's something that a lot of people don't necessarily think about.
00:03:37
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, like you said, you're presented with this type of situation. Obviously, surrogacy, the topic of termination is sometimes yeah it's reduced to a single question on an application, but it's yeah so incredibly nuanced. Yeah. From your perspective, why is this not a checkbox conversation?
00:04:02
Speaker
um For so many reasons. First of all, um given a post-Dobbs America, the laws keep changing yeah quickly. And so knowing what the laws are in your state, but not only now in your state, in some places in your city, of what the laws might be, um can impact a whole lot of things. So
00:04:31
Speaker
it's an uncomfortable conversation and It's a hard conversation to have when you're not in it, when it's all hypothetical.
00:04:43
Speaker
have a lot of intended parents that are like, oh, hu I haven't thought about that. And I'm like, I understand. And so I like to frame it for both just potential gestational carriers and for intended parents as let's talk about what your your parenting capacity is. We're going to think about it in terms of this big frame, because there is no way for us to go through all of the complications that might arise. Because I couldn't even name a lot of them for you because i don't know, um that's okay. um There are probably thousands and like, okay. yeah um
00:05:21
Speaker
and And so it's it's, let's get broad strokes around this. um Oftentimes it's useful too, to think about it as like, what is your capacity around quality of life? What is your capacity around quantity of life?
00:05:36
Speaker
a um and And what would that be like? um And also, okay so if you know that um you want to carry the term, I want to make sure your surrogate's okay with that too, because she's still taking on all the risk of pregnancy.
Real-Life Surrogacy Experiences
00:05:55
Speaker
Right. And whatever else might come up in that could be stillbirth. It could like, there's a lot of complications too that could come up just because it's pregnancy. h So I want to make sure she's okay with that. And I actually walk people through this. Like i I probably spend way more time on it than the average bear, but I really walk people through it. I'm like, all right. So if something is found in the first trimester,
00:06:20
Speaker
And typically intended parents are like, well, but we have our embryos PGA tested, so we're fine. Nothing genetic is going to pop up. and Let's talk about that because what PGTA does, and it's a wonderful technology we have, but what it does is it looks at your chromosomes.
00:06:41
Speaker
And if we think about building a house, chromosomes are like the wood part that just sort of shapes the house. And our genes are everything else that fills it, right? The HVAC units, the insulation, the walls, the drywall, all of that. um So yes, you might have clear chromosomes.
00:07:05
Speaker
But that does not mean that everything else genetically is fine because we just don't know yet. Right, right. Just, I mean, certain certain things haven't developed yet. There's, yeah, there's but there's not organs yet. there's There's all kinds of things. And I definitely, you're hitting on something so important. And I really, really, really want to get there. But before we do, you know, one of the things, just going back to kind of that beginning conversation, I love that you've already, you know, kind of touched on it.
00:07:37
Speaker
for For egg donor and surrogate solutions, like we definitely like preferences they should be not only just thoughtfully considered, but yeah they need to like when a match happens, but they also need to be as silly as it sounds. They need to be heard because unfortunately there are situations in the industry where, you know, there's a, you know, people feel encouraged to maybe adjust their position because they're trying to make a match work rather than again, fully yeah feeling, you know, like they're heard.
00:08:10
Speaker
When it comes to that type of situation, what do you feel like is kind of the emotional cost of maybe trying to convince someone to change their stance just to make a match work or simply just to hope for the best?
00:08:22
Speaker
um Hard no on that. by Like, hey, if you're not aligned in this and you're trying to contort yourself to to try to be in alignment about this, what else are you trying to contort yourself to be in alignment about?
00:08:39
Speaker
So it sort of says to me like, okay, very people pleasing, but should you find yourself in that situation? How are you going to feel? What is that going to be like? And I've seen that like mid surrogacy where a lawyer had reached out to me and they're like, we need you to work with this surrogate.
Ethical and Legal Complexities
00:09:00
Speaker
sure fine yeah um there was this like they were watching something during the pregnancy and it was nothing really finite but it was something that the mfms were like we want to keep an eye on this like we don't know what it's going to mean or what it might look like but we want to keep an eye on it and as they kept on keeping an eye on it um the The potential diagnosis and prognosis became really gray.
00:09:32
Speaker
And it was basically like flipping a coin. and The intended parents had a really hard conversations with one another. And they came to the conclusion that we can't take this risk.
00:09:45
Speaker
We don't know what prognosis is going to be like, and we can't take this risk. And they were aligned when the contract was signed that she would terminate, and it was at the intended parent's discretion.
00:09:59
Speaker
um Because there was a chance for the baby, because the prognosis was so unknown, um she started to go through with it, and she couldn't.
00:10:13
Speaker
She said, I can't sign my name in good conscience, knowing that this baby might be fine. So in principle, she felt one way, but in actuality, it was really different for her.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. So I would rather we be really clear on it. And that's why I walk people through, like I go trimester by trimester. um You know, I go through whose decision is it if your health starts to ah not be the greatest and the thing that would be the most helpful for your health is to not be pregnant.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah. You know, but you're only 16 weeks. So how do we figure out that? How do we make those decisions? Well, yeah. And I think it's really difficult to be in situations like that because like you said, every state and now sometimes even city or county, you know they all do have their own nuanced language and it's sometimes really hard to interpret that. And so it is important to not necessarily just
00:11:26
Speaker
discuss this in broad terms, you do need to be really specific. So how do you, when you are going trimester by trimester, when you're speaking to intended parents and surrogates, how do you create space for that nuance without escalating fear or having that conversation turn into judgment?
00:11:56
Speaker
So I start the conversation by saying, okay, we're going to switch gears a little bit. And now I'm going to be Debbie Downer and we're going to talk about some of the really hard things that can come up in a pregnancy. Yeah.
00:12:11
Speaker
It does not mean they will in yours, but they're not, again, they're not a 0% chance. And so ethically, I feel like we have to talk about it. There's no right answer.
00:12:24
Speaker
And it might be that this is something you two have never discussed before. And so let this be a launch pad for more of those conversations. um You know, anything you tell me now, it's it's like you're not locked into it. And even in a contract, like the gestational carrier is describing, she could make that choice because a contract can't control her bodily decisions and her bodily autonomy.
00:12:51
Speaker
Um, You know, we we don't want those situations to happen because then there's a lot of acrimony too. And um and don't think anyone wants a journey to end up like that. Right. But I think it's also really important to keep in mind that,
Psychological Evaluations in Surrogacy
00:13:07
Speaker
you know, she has to feel okay about it and what that might look like.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We'll get right back to the show in just a moment. But if there's one thing we believe at egg donor and surrogate solutions, it's that building a family through egg donation or surrogacy should never feel transactional.
00:13:27
Speaker
For over 18 years, we've helped hopeful parents, surrogates, and egg donors navigate this process with education, transparency, and relationship-centered support every step of the way. We believe people deserve honest information, thoughtful guidance, and a team that truly sees the human side of this journey. If you'd like to learn more about our agency or explore working with our team, visit createahappyfamily.com.
00:13:55
Speaker
All right, let's get back to the show. How, just just going off of exactly like what you said, you know, it is, it's essential that intended, you know, it we know intended parents are building their family, but like you said, the surrogates, they do maintain autonomy over, you know, their body and medical care. yeah How can a intended parent maybe express their wishes while still honoring the surrogate's autonomy?
00:14:29
Speaker
um So again, this is why we have to have this conversation early on. Yeah. Because then we're clear from the beginning and it's the beginning conversation that we can always revisit.
00:14:41
Speaker
um it's I hate the situations where someone checked the box that, okay, this would be fine. And we get into that situation and actually know it's not fine.
00:14:52
Speaker
But they never talked about it. And so no one knew how to bring it up or how to talk with one another about it. And so people then got entrenched. Well, this is our baby. We get to make a decision. Well, this is my body. i get to. It becomes very, very entrenched.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and again, that, you know, just that nuance, because I think, you know, going back to kind of what you said earlier about you have PGT testing or, you know, the anatomy scan is another major milestone. But like you said, pregnancy is complex and, you know, it doesn't necessarily eliminate all of the possibilities, but we're still wanting intended parents to, and surrogates to have, you know, that hope.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah. But you still kind of have to remain grounded in just the reality of the medical phenomenon that is pregnancy.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I think we forget that because like the idea of surrogacy is, okay, here's someone who has a proven track record. And what I like to remind both surrogates and intended parents is, but this person has never carried an embryo with this particular genetic makeup.
00:16:11
Speaker
And so it's not the same. Yeah. And maybe it's been a bit since she was last pregnant. You know, she had her kids really young. So like been a bit could be fine and like still well within age markers. But yeah, like if you had your last pregnant at 26 and you're now 36 wanting to be um a surrogate, it's still been 10 years since you've been pregnant.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, for sure. And I think, again, this kind of, you know, all all of these scenarios and and things to think about, it can all feel so overwhelming.
00:16:53
Speaker
And not every not every agency, not every clinic necessarily requires, you know, a a joint session, for for example. Right. But from your perspective...
00:17:08
Speaker
Why is it so important that these preferences are explored, not only just each individual, but together yeah rather than just kind of treating it as sort of a just brief, okay, yep, you're good.
00:17:25
Speaker
Cool. Check. yeah yeah and And what is um always interesting to me is that some agencies will say, well, we handle the group part.
00:17:35
Speaker
interesting you know and i'm like okay well what if a disagreement comes up like then who's managing that or how do we get it to not just be that checklist we agree we agree we agree great um i think so much about the mental health piece when we're talking about third party feels um
00:18:00
Speaker
very daunting to all those that are part of it and, and maybe unnecessary um intended parents are like, like, If we were able to get pregnant on our own, none of this would be happening.
00:18:14
Speaker
And so I don't understand why i have to justify being a parent. I'm nope, that's not what we're doing today. um So really also being clear on this is, I'm not evaluating you for your fitness to parent. I'm actually not qualified to do that. I'm not in that. So we're not doing that.
00:18:34
Speaker
You two have told me you want to be parents and this is the path you need to take. I'm good with it. So, you know, if you're concerned about passing, I'll tell you in the beginning, you've passed. Now, let's go on to the other things we need to talk about.
00:18:48
Speaker
Right, right. And then the tell me a little bit more about the the surrogacy aspect of that, because I think we do have a lot of, you know, i I shouldn't say I think, I know. And I know for me, the first time I had my psychological evaluation, i was I did, I came, I was like, okay, wait, I'm taking a test. Are you going to think I'm like a wackadoo? What's going on?
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, well, even if people have never experienced any kind of mental health issues, so they've never met with a mental health professional. um And then like they're meeting with one, it it feels evaluative. and And it is like, I don't want to lie. Like it is an evaluation. It is. And for this, it is an evaluation more about fitness. The way I describe it to people is, um you know,
00:19:34
Speaker
If you want to be an astronaut, it' like people are like, wait, what what? I'm like, I promise it will make sense in a moment. Sure. If you want to be an astronaut, you need to have a certain skill set. You need to be good at math. You need to be good at science. You need to be able to think on your feet. Your body needs to be able to withstand zero gravity where you're not vomiting the whole time. Like there's a lot of things that have have to be in place. And there are a lot of people that work at NASA who wanted to be an astronaut and were unable to become one.
00:20:08
Speaker
So we think about like, oh, but if you talk to one of those people who are unable to become an astronaut, you're not going to sit there and be like, oh, really? You're just in control? You're you like, you just managed the entire control room? Ugh.
00:20:21
Speaker
and No, you're like, oh my God, you managed the entire control room? What's that like? Like you're very excited about it because it's it's a skill set. And so I say then to, i said, so here's how it connects.
00:20:35
Speaker
A lot of people think that just to be a gestational carrier, all they have to do is had a pregnancy before. Mm-hmm. And it's it's not as simple as this. I wanna make sure that going into this, this feels good and coming out of it, it feels good.
00:20:52
Speaker
um I wanna make sure that everyone you know can be supportive, that you're going to get everything you might need because we can't predict how this is gonna go.
00:21:03
Speaker
And I say to the partners, you might not have a ton you're gonna say today and that's okay. I think your role is of the utmost importance because you're the rock, you're the foundation. Should something go sideways, you're picking up extra things around kids and the house and also your partner's health.
00:21:28
Speaker
So I wanna be really clear, like you understand what can happen and that you feel comfortable with it as well. um And I said, you know, if it comes out that this might not be the right time for you to do it or that, you know, for whatever reason, you don't necessarily have all the skills. It's not, I'm not evaluating whether or not you're a good person. The fact you're even considering this tells me really clearly you're a good person.
Transparency and Support in Surrogacy
00:22:00
Speaker
So that's really not what this is. And I try to be really like very honest and upfront, like this is why we're doing um Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, that transparency and just that ethical standard of, you know, these are, this isn't just a checkbox. And this is something to make sure, like you said, that you intended parent, surrogate, partner, feel good about everything that's happening.
00:22:30
Speaker
Why do you think, what do you think a ah joint session you know, might uncover that separate conversations might miss?
00:22:43
Speaker
um I think sometimes individually, everyone wants to put best foot forward. And if um a potential surrogate is hearing something from the intended parents for the first time, she might have a reaction to it because she's like, oh, I was not expecting that.
00:23:04
Speaker
yeah And we then have time to be like, okay, so let's talk about it. Like, you know, the intended, the the, the other thing I say so much in the beginning to surrogates, but the other thing that I say is it's really important for you to tell me what you want. So many people who are meeting with me, they tell me what they think I want to hear. And I said, I'm not interested in that because,
00:23:31
Speaker
You know, if a problem comes up, it's you navigating it. It's not me. yeah So if you're telling me something you're not comfortable with, but you're just trying to go along to get along and that happens, it could have been avoided. So please tell me things because I'm not judging you. I just want to make sure that you are as good or better after the surrogacy as you are in this moment right now.
00:23:57
Speaker
And so, you know, I want this to be a good thing. journey for you. Yeah. Now I'm not a wizard. And so sometimes people can seem great. Not just in the interview, but I always give other kinds of measures too, because I don't just want to rely on like one thing or two things.
00:24:18
Speaker
um I think that's really important if I'm if i'm really trying to understand someone. um And it also gives me an opportunity to say, hey, where where might there be inconsistencies?
00:24:31
Speaker
um So that I can follow up on that, right? And you maybe there's a really good reason for the inconsistency. And you know, maybe it was like, I didn't realize I was inconsistent.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But again, i think you're pointing out just why the psychological evaluation is just as important than that medical evaluation that everyone is always so focused on.
00:25:00
Speaker
And people ask me, they're like, why does it take so long? And I'm like, well, you don't want me to rush this. um And I think as time goes on, mine get longer, not shorter.
00:25:12
Speaker
um But just I'm going into more detail with people and asking more questions, i'm following up with different things. um Like, just plan. Sure. With how...
00:25:25
Speaker
thorough you are. And again, you've kind of already touched on this, but you you do say when it comes to you know some of those tough conversations, you break it down trimester by trimester.
00:25:37
Speaker
yeah Why is maybe a first trimester scenario so psychologically different versus a later trimester one for all parties involved?
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah. So I don't know that it's ever easiest for the intended parents. I don't think that there is a gestational time where it's like, well, this is fine. ah Yeah. No, we can establish. Yeah. Let's establish that very clearly. This is hard period. Correct. Absolutely. don't want to like minimize, oh, well, you know, the longer you've been pregnant, the worse it is. Not necessarily.
00:26:12
Speaker
um And i I see that from the people I work with every day who have encountered, some kind of pregnancy loss. um That like, no, that's, that's hard. People who have had recurrent miscarriages in the first trimester, and they're devastated. And they are emotionally similar to the person who had a stillbirth at 39 weeks.
00:26:40
Speaker
So like, there's nothing that's There are nuances. I want to be really clear about that. But like, it's not a contest. This is not an Olympiad of like, what's the worst situation you could get into. yeah um So i I do it trimester by trimester. And I talk about look, and the other thing I talk about when we're talking about this is, how do you all manage loss? Like as a couple, how do you manage loss? What has been your experiences of loss?
00:27:10
Speaker
How do you manage it individually? How do you manage it together? and what might it be like, how might you think about managing loss with another couple?
00:27:22
Speaker
Because
Emotional Challenges and Managing Loss
00:27:24
Speaker
the four of you are sharing this experience different ways because everyone's coming at it from a different place, but you're sharing this experience and working with with gestational carriers in the past, they feel so guilty.
00:27:41
Speaker
What did I do? This has never happened to me before. Whereas the intended parents like, oh my God, I can't believe it happened again. Like we did everything we could to not have it happen again.
00:27:54
Speaker
um So like very different places they're coming from. Yeah. And so like I say, like, I can't tell you how you're going to feel. And most of the time the carriers are like, well, I'd be really sad, but just for the intended parents. And i'm like, well, but what about you? And what about those hormone shifts? And like, are you sure you're not? Well, sure. I'd feel sad too for that. Like, it's not like I want that to happen. Sure.
00:28:20
Speaker
But, and again, I appreciate it's really hard to imagine a situation that you've never been close to. Yeah. So it's like, well, I don't know. All my pregnancies work out. i get pregnant the first time that I think about it. And, you know, 40 weeks later, perfectly on time. Awesome.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah. You know, but being able to also to put themselves in the intended parent's shoes and that empathy is the other piece that I'm really looking for, too is.
00:28:51
Speaker
Can you understand if an intended mother might be calling you more towards the end of a pregnancy or so texting you more? Because maybe that's where she lost her baby.
00:29:03
Speaker
And maybe she's really freaked out. And while it's fine for you to be able to empathize with, I'm going to give her some grace. Like,
00:29:15
Speaker
Okay, we'll have these conversations. Yeah, it might be annoying. It might not fit in with my schedule in the way that I would like, but okay, she's really scared and hurting and it's coming back and the things she wants so much, she can touch it, but it's not there yet.
00:29:31
Speaker
And it's it's really scary. um So just like these divergence of experience too, I think is really important to understand. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:44
Speaker
And again, like you're not grieving by yourself. You're not grieving with your your partner. But it could be the four of you grieving together, three of you grieving together, two of you, like, you know, the gestational carrier and the intended mother may be grieving together. I'm being so stereotypical. But, you know, who is it that is who is it that's actively grieving?
00:30:09
Speaker
What is that like? And sometimes intended parents want nothing more to do with that carrier because they're in pain. And so it's not like it's, but as a carrier that how, how do you not take that personally?
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Like, wow, we've been really working on this relationship and now like, I just feel like I've been dropped. So how do you not take that personally? Or, oh my gosh, she really hates me.
00:30:36
Speaker
Because I do this. And it's like, well, there are lots of reasons that this happened. None of them were you brought it on. um And I talked to them about that, too. so like if I talk about what might it feel like if the embryo transfer doesn't work?
00:30:53
Speaker
What might it feel like if it's an early loss for you? It's hard to imagine what it will feel like. Whereas the end intended parents oftentimes are experts on this, unfortunately.
00:31:06
Speaker
I like to also the, and and just like you were saying, it there are different things that can happen that can give us different information. So I actually walked through the testing where I'm like, okay, so in the first trimester, most likely you'll either have a NIPS and you'll have a NUCCL fold or you'll just have a NUCCL fold.
00:31:25
Speaker
Here's what it's looking at. um And because there's a visualization to it as well, it might not be chromosomal. It might be like there is a giant mass forming. And that is not what we would expect to happen right now.
00:31:42
Speaker
um You know, and maybe maybe that becomes something in the, you know, in the next several weeks where it's like, oh, this is not reconciling on its own. Like this is this could be problematic. hmm.
00:31:54
Speaker
um Then to talk about second trimester and I first go through like, okay, you're going to have... The ah anatomy scan. you know well The anatomy scan. it's It's like doing all the quad A kinds of things where you're looking at, you know, what what is that nervous system looking like? What's the spine looking like? You know, like one more check too.
00:32:22
Speaker
And things can kind of come up there. Oftentimes it might be with that blood work, the first sign of potential spina bifida. Sure. And then again, this is where quality and quantity come into play.
00:32:36
Speaker
um Because plenty of people have spina bifida. They live amazing, incredible lives. um Also, there are others who don't.
00:32:47
Speaker
And so really having to be like, we need to understand this and what this is. Then we get to the anatomy scan. So like, okay, so now you're like halfway through pregnancy. Like, remember that time from your own pregnancies. What might it be like?
00:33:01
Speaker
Because this is the first time we can really see organs differentiated. Sure. What might it be like to learn that there was some kind of defect, that the brain wasn't growing in the way that it should, that the heart was wired backwards or wasn't closing in the way that it should, that maybe there's a club foot or, you know, and I'll go through all of the things. Mm um Or, and sorry, just to go back to the first trimester, I'll talk about Down syndrome.
00:33:28
Speaker
Oh, sure. And specifically that. I said, look, the greatest diagnosis that people tend to think about is Down syndrome. So let's go with that as an example. um How might you feel if the intended parents wanted you to carry to term?
00:33:45
Speaker
You know, like, what are your own thoughts about this too?
Preparing for Complex Decisions
00:33:49
Speaker
So, because people have bias about ability and disability and they do.
00:33:56
Speaker
And that's, that is unfortunately a part of our world. um So again, it's something I want to know so we can be really clear on that. yeah. You know, in third trimester, like we can talk about stillbirth. We can talk about things that weren't found in the anatomy scan because they weren't big enough to stand out.
00:34:18
Speaker
But if you're getting a 28-week scan, okay, this might be where we see something. yeah um Or we might see something at 20 weeks and be like, not concerned, but let's keep monitoring it.
00:34:33
Speaker
And it might be that six weeks later, They're like, oh, this is taking a big jump. Like something is happening and okay, we were not expecting this. So these are hard choices. Like in any situation, these are really hard decisions. Should they be something that occurs?
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost a little easier to talk about it in the abstract. It is, it is. And it is especially so hard to have these conversations because you are talking to a group of people that is desperately wanting to have a baby. And so the thought of, you know, being in a situation where all of a sudden you have to decide is really difficult.
00:35:16
Speaker
yeah I will say, you know again, we're talking about all of the things that could happen. And in our experience, these situations are not that common. But when they do arise, they do carry such and enormous an and emotional weight.
00:35:37
Speaker
But from the data that maybe you've seen, how often do these decisions actually arise in a third party you of sitchin situation versus you know maybe how often people fear that they might?
00:35:52
Speaker
Right. So most agencies will say, maybe we've had one or two in the existence of our agency. Right. That's sort of how, how rare and particularly the agencies that have been around over time. They're like, yeah, this is I think like in my memory, since I've been there, it's maybe been one or two. um and And so they stand out because they're rare but they're rare. i the estimation, because these numbers are not kept and there's a lot of reasons for that, but that's not, not that's beside the point. Um,
00:36:30
Speaker
the estimation is that 1% of people who um
00:36:39
Speaker
have a anomaly, like it's 1% that might be terminating. So again, this tends to be the second and third trimesters that we're talking about. These are intended pregnancies that we're talking about.
00:36:54
Speaker
it is something that is extremely rare. But again, i come back to just because it's rare doesn't mean it's impossible. Right.
00:37:06
Speaker
Right. Why?
Connecting with Dr. Julie Bindeman
00:37:07
Speaker
And I mean, again, yes, we want to we want to hold both truths. It is rare, but it is still worth that thoughtful discussion.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much just for helping us approach this topic with such clarity and steadiness. These conversations are obviously not easy, but they are so necessary when, and when they are handled so thoughtfully, they, like you said, they protect those relationships rather than strain them. Where can listeners just connect with you or learn more about your work Yeah. Um, so I have a, a website it's greaterwashingtontherapy.com. Um, I'm, I'm on social media, but I'm probably not as active as lots of people there. sure
00:37:59
Speaker
You know, i only have a certain amount of time and so, but you can find me at Dr. Julie Bindeman on Instagram, on Tik TOK, on, um,
00:38:10
Speaker
Facebook, LinkedIn, all those places. And then you can also, you can email me um through the web website too. That is perfect. And we'll have that in our show notes. Thank you again, Julie, just for everything you do in this industry and for this incredibly thought-provoking conversation. I'm so grateful.
00:38:30
Speaker
Absolutely, me too. And I can't wait for us to connect again. 100%. one hundred percent
00:38:39
Speaker
If this episode resonated with you in any way, I just want to remind you that this journey, no matter what it looks like, it doesn't always follow a straight line. There are moments that feel clear and certain and others that are harder to name, harder to hold, and both are part of the story.
00:38:58
Speaker
At Egg Donor & Surrogate Solutions, we believe that support shouldn't just exist for the milestones, but for the moments in between too, the ones that don't always get talked about. So whether you're navigating a shift in your journey or just trying to make sense of what this experience means for you,
00:39:16
Speaker
You don't have to do that alone. Lean on your support system. Reach out to your coordinator. Talk to someone you trust. And if you need deeper support, there is real strength in finding a mental health professional who understands the emotional weight of this journey.
00:39:34
Speaker
You deserve support in every part of this process.