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Episode 112 w/ Steve Paikin
60 Plays3 years ago
This week, Tony and Jodie chat with their good friend Steve Paikin. The host of TVO's nightly current affairs program The Agenda and host of "TVO at 50" podcast makes his third appearance on the program.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:17
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of And Another Thing, the podcast that really does set the bar in the world of podcasts. My name is Jody Jenkins. And my name is Tony Clement.
00:00:29
Speaker
And as always, this show by the team at municipal s sponsor, john mutton an amazing job. You can fin to municipal solutions dot share a little bit more abo some of our other amazing
00:00:48
Speaker
Yes, Jodi, I'd be happy to do that.
Sponsor Highlights
00:00:50
Speaker
As Jodi mentioned, John and the gang at Municipal Solutions are very busy these days, very busy. If you do have any development services or project management needs, they are great for that. Development approvals, permit expediting,
00:01:07
Speaker
planning services with municipalities, engineering services, architectural services. If you have a minor variance or a land severance issue, or indeed if you need a building permit, visit municipalsolutions.ca. And then we want to thank another sponsor of ours, Mr. Trevor Townsend. He is a Senior Vice President and Investment Advisor for Canaccord Genuity Corporation. And for the past
00:01:31
Speaker
25 years Trevor has successfully built an investment advisory practice. He provides counsel to affluent investors and private corporations in the public markets. He has strategic investment planning and wealth management for business owners, executives and management professionals
00:01:50
Speaker
retirees and affluent investors, and he provides a holistic approach to his advice. And you can find Trevor at TrevorTownsend.ca. And finally, our friend Stephen J. Sparling at Halton GR. They are a municipal lobbyist firm representing the in the development industry, clients that have worked to do in the GTA West.
00:02:14
Speaker
For instance, Etobicoke, Mississauga and Oakville, you visit Steven and you can find out about his services by visiting HaltonGR.com. And don't forget to check out LooneyPolitics.com exclusive content that you won't find anywhere else. We're proud to be
00:02:34
Speaker
partnered up with Robert and the team at loonypolitics.com. And you can get shows that are only available there. And you can use the code podcast to get 50% off an annual subscription. So head to loonypolitics.com. Well, after the show, don't do it in the middle of the show. Don't do it now. Don't do it now, but do it after the show and make sure you do that. So lots of fun and frivolity. And we can't even really tease who we've had on that show because it's top secret.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, you have to actually got to be a subscriber got to be a subscriber. That's a special ask. You have to ask our guest today if he actually subscribes to that. That one is as well. I can listen to those episodes. Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's a special. I'll let you introduce our guest, Tony. I'm excited.
Guest Introduction: Steve Paken
00:03:19
Speaker
Three time guest, actually. I know. I know. And we are very, very happy at and another thing podcast to have as our guest.
00:03:28
Speaker
Mr. Steve Paken. He is, of course, the host of The Agenda on TV Ontario. He has a podcast on Polly that he shares with John Michael McGrath, and they frequently have podcasts relating to Ontario politics. He is the author of numerous books, including a wonderful biography of William Davis, which is one of my favorite reads of all time. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Steve Paken.
00:03:55
Speaker
Pony, Nody, so nice to be with you guys this evening. How are you? It's just great. And you're in Sudbury right now. I am indeed. Got some family up here that I'm visiting for a couple days. So Northern Ontario, here we are. Lovely, lovely. Well, I always love Sudsville and there's always stuff going on there. So I'm glad you're safe there. I don't even know what the numbers are. What are the COVID numbers in Sudbury? Are they up, down, sideways?
00:04:18
Speaker
You know what? I don't know. I just got here. I literally just arrived and you used to be the minister for for up here. Were you not? Yeah, I was the longest serving minister of Fednor, which is the federal economic development initiative for Northern Ontario and did a lot of announcements in Sudbury. I can tell you that.
00:04:36
Speaker
Well, I'm happy to be here and happy to be with you guys. There you go. Well, we wanted to talk. Yeah, I got that before we get into the real questions. We were talking before Steve came on the program about his multi appearances. And Steve, you mentioned that on Saturday Night Live, if you're if you're a host to that show five times, what do you receive?
00:04:59
Speaker
Well, they did a cute sketch many years ago about the start of Five Timers Club, and they give you a bathrobe with the number five on the bathrobe. And, you know, some of the hosts, you know, Steve Martin, I think, has been on the show. Has he hosted 16 times, 17 times, something like that? Has it been that many for him? I think so. I mean, the show is now 45 years old. So, yeah, that's entirely possible.
00:05:25
Speaker
So I'm looking forward to getting my end another thing. I don't know. What do you guys give out like sweaters or something with the number three on it? If I'm the three-time guest We're good with like a velcro patch and you just switch out this money on having to buy multiple hoodies Well, we're
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, we're just getting into the merch now, so we'll have to figure all that out. But we will in time very, very soon, I'm sure. So there you go.
2021 Political Landscape Reflection
00:05:54
Speaker
But we invited Steve on in particular because this is our year-end show. It's after Christmas, but before New Year's when we are taping this. And it's a time where we can reflect a little bit
00:06:08
Speaker
on 2021 and then maybe look ahead a little bit and what better than to have the on poly podcast co-host Steve Paken and of course with his role on the agenda as well. Tell us what you think about 2021. What were the big stories, the big political trends that you've come away with thinking, wow, that was a real highlight for 2021?
00:06:34
Speaker
Well, I'm sad to say I suspect the answer I'm going to give is the same answer that everybody's going to give and that is still trying to figure our way out of this global pandemic. I know that when I went to the Ontario Liberal Leadership Convention in March of 2020 and
00:06:50
Speaker
And how, parenthetically speaking, how so many thousands of people manage to attend that thing and have it not turn into a super spreader event is beyond me. But having said that, that was the last sort of big event I can remember covering. And then after that, we were all sort of confined to quarters for quite some time. But yeah, Tony Jodi, I, you know, I'm not going to pretend that this is a unique answer, but how our political leaders have managed to
00:07:17
Speaker
handle the pandemic, work with each other to do so, try to establish credibility with the electorate so that the decisions that they make can be found with some favor. I mean, to me, that's been obviously the number one story of the past year and looks, unfortunately, like it's going to be the number one story of the coming year as well. And Doug Ford, interestingly enough, I don't think he's in a worse position after another full year of COVID being in the province of Ontario. Do you?
00:07:45
Speaker
Well, I just look at the polls, obviously. I have not gone out and surveyed 15 million Ontarians, but I looked at the most recent public opinion surveys, and he's still in first place with the two opposition parties, the new Democrats and the Liberals, sort of, you know, within the margin of error tied for second place.
00:08:04
Speaker
But I guess what ought to be of concern to conservatives right now is that Doug Ford can't win a majority government with the numbers that he's got right now. So if he hopes to come back renewing his majority mandate, something's got to change. And obviously that's what campaigns are for. And the two and I'll say three opposition parties who are represented in the legislature, NDP, Liberals and Greens, will try to obviously prevent that from happening.
00:08:31
Speaker
And do you see a trend as the most likely to be the most strenuous opposition? Is it the liberals or the NDP? Or is it too soon to tell right now? I don't know. And the reason I don't know is because the NDP is the official opposition right now. They have the most number of seats. On the other hand, your friend and mine, Greg Lyle, wonderful pollster with the Innovative Research Group.
00:08:59
Speaker
has a great line where he says most people in Ontario, when they get up in the morning, they look in the mirror and splash water on their face to wake themselves up, see a small liberal. So we know that the fact that the liberals only have seven seats at Queen's Park right now is not necessarily any indication of the strength and support they're likely to show at election time in June of 2022.
00:09:24
Speaker
I wouldn't make any predictions on the election this far in advance of it, but that's essentially where it's handicapped today. What does the liberal leader have to do to make the biggest and best impression leading up to the election then?
00:09:41
Speaker
Well, probably not take advice from Steve Paken. That'd be a good start. And then second thing would probably be not taking advice from Tony Clement or Jody Jenkins either. But no, what does he have to do? Tony, I know you've been on both sides of this equation. So I know what I'm about to say, again, is not going to shock you. And that is,
00:10:04
Speaker
Governments defeat themselves. Governments are not elected, they defeat themselves. And Stephen Del Duca could be the second coming, we're a few days after Christmas here, so I'll use this analogy. Stephen Del Duca could be the second coming of Jesus Christ, and it won't matter a bit if the people of Ontario, or at least the largest chunk of them,
00:10:22
Speaker
decide they want Doug Ford back for another term. So he can do all the things that he needs to do, get good candidates, raise a lot of money, get some more profile, put a policy book together. He can do all those things as expertly and perfectly as possible. But if the public have decided they want more Doug Ford, then it won't matter. If the public have decided that they don't want more Doug Ford, and they're looking at alternatives, then that will matter a lot, obviously.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah, and we, you know, we don't know the future. So this is all speculation.
Election Outcomes During the Pandemic
00:10:52
Speaker
But looking at 2021 and the latter part of 2020, when governments went to the polls,
00:11:03
Speaker
in the midst of COVID, and this happened in several provinces now, and of course we had the federal election. We want to talk about that a little bit too. The result wasn't a change of government in most instances. The only one I can think of is Nova Scotia.
00:11:18
Speaker
But in New Brunswick and in British Columbia and in Saskatchewan, the result was a status quo. And of course, in the federal election, you can argue that there were some things happening underneath the tectonic plates, but the general result was the same result in terms of seat allocation.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, quite right. I'm looking through my memory banks at the same time you are, and I think you're right. There's only one government I can think of that tried to renew its mandate over the course of the coronavirus pandemic that was rejected by the public. Everybody else renewed their mandate. And it certainly suggests, if there is a national trend behind this, it certainly suggests that
00:12:03
Speaker
that the public prefers, I hate to put it this way, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to put it. The public prefers the devil they know to the devil they don't at the moment. And they don't seem to be in a, you know, if the past is any indication, they don't seem to be in a gambling mood to give too many
00:12:19
Speaker
parties that were in opposition an opportunity to come in midway through a global pandemic and try their hand at things. You know you can't because it's been that way so far overwhelmingly you can't automatically assume that it will be that way in the future because of course all of these trends are trends until they're not and somebody at some point is going to come along and upset the apple cart at an opposition party
00:12:45
Speaker
will get elected and an incumbent government will get thrown out and then suddenly the trend won't be the trend anymore. But you've described it quite accurately for what's transpired over the past 20 months.
00:12:56
Speaker
Let's talk federal for a second or two. The dust has started to settle now, obviously, and the new cabinet has been sworn in. They've received their mandate letters. Justin Trudeau did his year-end in review interviews. Did you watch any of them? I didn't, no. What are you going to say? Jody, did you watch any of them?
Justin Trudeau's Political Future
00:13:24
Speaker
no i did not okay so that's three of us that's three of us who didn't watch any of them and we're we're people who eat sleep breathe drink politics way too much and if we didn't watch any of them i wonder i wonder how much of the general population watched any of them
00:13:41
Speaker
Because, I don't know, based on, I think this is the first year that I haven't watched any of them. And I think I didn't because this just doesn't feel like a year where, you know, and again, no disrespect to the journalists asking the questions, no disrespect to the politicians answering the questions.
00:14:02
Speaker
I just really, you know, at this time of year, don't want to hear the same old, same old. I really just don't. And I think that's my, I guess that's what all three of us were concerned about, was that we were just going to hear same old, same old. And we're not interested in that right now. The talking points, exactly. And I think the only one that I really, and I only, I saw a snippet of it, I didn't see all of it, but the Queen's address, her Christmas Day address, I did pay some attention to that because she was perfect.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, talking about Prince Philip and it was more of a personal kind of address rather than just genuflecting to the usual talking points. So that was something that I was interested in. But I think you're right. And I think this time because of Omicron and whatnot, we were just sort of hunkering down. I mean, you know, the last thing we wanted to do was digest
00:15:00
Speaker
politics, as usual, coming from our parliamentary leaders and so on. But I think that I'd like to get your response to this because Justin Trudeau came out of that election with a victory. You can't take that away from him. But we're starting to see
00:15:24
Speaker
within the liberal ranks, and you talk to a lot of liberals, Steve, as you talk to a lot of conservatives, a lot of NDPers, I'm not saying it's particular liberal party, but you're starting to see, just as we saw at the tail end of Stephen Harper's power, that people are starting to think ahead a little bit, and they're starting to be a little bit of jockeying, a little bit of, you know, what's Kristia Freeland going to do, and what is Mark Carney going to do, and so on and so forth.
00:15:51
Speaker
And so that's kind of a new thing that we didn't have after the last two elections. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, I think it is. And I think part of the reason why it is a fair assessment is that there are not many leaders these days who can stick around and win three straight elections. And the current Prime Minister of Canada has done that. That's a hard thing to do. Stephen Harper did do it. But when he went for number four,
00:16:18
Speaker
Well, I don't have to tell you how that election turned out. Right. You know, the interesting thing is I'm, let me put it this way. Justin Trudeau has only been prime minister for six years and change, right? Yeah, true. And yet he's already number, I think he's number eight or nine on the list in terms of time spent in office among prime ministers of Canada. And he's the 23rd prime minister. Right. He's the 23rd prime minister and he's already number eight or nine on the list.
00:16:47
Speaker
So that goes to show you that there are a lot of prime ministers who don't spend very much time in that job. And the number of prime ministers who've actually won multiple elections and spent any kind of time in that office is a relatively small number given 154 years of Canadian political history here. Well, that's a very good point. Yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
Well, I was just gonna say, you know, all the people, and boy, we heard a lot of this immediately after the election, maybe a little less now, but all the people who are saying, oh, you know, Justin Trudeau is obviously looking for an exit. He's obviously not gonna run again. The people who want his job within the Liberal family are obviously putting their organizations together right now and will no doubt one of them be successful and lead the party into the next election.
00:17:37
Speaker
And I don't know, I'm just totally not sold on that idea at all. I just have, I'm going to need to see a great deal more evidence or proof that Justin Trudeau doesn't want to stay in this job. It's a hard job to get. It's a very hard job to stay in. And I don't know too many of them who walk away on their own timing. Yeah. Bill Davis was the great exception to that.
00:18:03
Speaker
He was, but let's remember, you know, it's funny, you've mentioned Bill Davis, former Ontario Premier for some of your listeners who may not remember from 1971 to 1985. And Justin Trudeau and Bill Davis' careers have a great mirror image of one another in this respect. Mr. Davis came in October 21st, 1971 with a majority government. Justin Trudeau came in in 2015 with a majority government. Then Mr. Davis won two minorities in a row. Justin Trudeau has won two minorities in a row.
00:18:33
Speaker
Mr. Davis then made the decision that he wasn't going to do any, you know, snap election calls and all of that funny business, that he was going to serve an entire four-year term if the opposition permitted it, and they did. And then four years later, he would go to the polls again and ask the people of Ontario to render their judgment.
00:18:52
Speaker
And that's what happened. And they liked him and they gave him a majority government back. So four straight election wins. No one's done that in Ontario in 100 years. Right. I've always thought, given the close relationship those two had, I've always thought that part of Mr. Trudeau's thinking would involve trying to match Bill Davis's record of coming back for a fourth straight election victory. And maybe if I mean, obviously, he'd like to do this to win a majority his first time first time out to reclaim the majority that he initially had, which he lost twice in a row.
00:19:22
Speaker
I until somebody tries, you know, has evidence to convince me otherwise.
00:19:27
Speaker
That's the theory I'm operating on right now. Well, let me add this, because I think part of what's at play here for Mr. Trudeau, but also for other premiers, is the fact that you really, in a sense, when you're governing during COVID, it almost doesn't count, because what you're doing is fighting fires, you're dealing with a worldwide pandemic. Really, the other parts of your agenda are significantly on hold.
00:19:56
Speaker
So in your head, you're thinking, well, those years, those two years or those three years really don't count because I still have parts of my agenda that I want to achieve. And so I need another mandate in order to do those things. I'm thinking also of John Tory, the mayor of Toronto, when I'm making this argument that he's been a good steward.
00:20:18
Speaker
of Toronto during the pandemic, but maybe he wants to run again, even though his first inclination wasn't to run again, just because these pandemic years, they're kind of lost in the mire when you're trying to deal with this national emergency. What do you think?
00:20:36
Speaker
I'm deeply concerned at this stage of our discussion, Tony, because I'm agreeing with you all the time. And here's another thing upon which you and I are going to agree. And I think that's right. You've got to remember that most of the people who hold their offices right now, Justin Trudeau, Doug Ford, John Tory, when they all started their careers in the jobs that they have right now, COVID did not exist. I mean, it wasn't a thing.
00:21:00
Speaker
And as a result, they all had other plans that they wanted to see achieved before they left office. Well, I agree with you 100%. All of those plans have been put on the back burner right now as they have had to pivot and deal with all of the COVID-related issues they've had to deal with.
00:21:16
Speaker
And I suspect that that is one of the things that John Tory is going to use in his argument with close family and friends, which is to say most people thought he was only going to run for two terms if he could get them and then leave as Mayor of Toronto. But I, you know, again, I want to see evidence to the contrary, but at the moment I'm working with the theory that
00:21:38
Speaker
He will think the last two years have derailed so much of what he got in a public life to do that they, as you point out, or as you've called it, they kind of don't count, and therefore he will seek a third term and try to hopefully ride COVID out and hope that it becomes less of an everyday occurrence in our life and get to some of the things that he wanted to get to.
00:22:01
Speaker
You know, this is another one of these things where we shall see there's a municipal election in all the municipalities in Ontario next October as a provincial election in June.
Patrick Brown's Political Speculations
00:22:13
Speaker
And, you know, we'll see where the chips fall. Yeah, no, they're all they're all coming up. Jodi, do you want to jump in at any point?
00:22:20
Speaker
I was actually gonna see if Steve would do another little bit of predicting or speculating, and you mentioned municipal elections coming up, and I'm gonna bring up a municipal politician. Actually, this is something I mentioned to Tony the other day, and I wanna talk about the mayor of Brampton being Patrick Brown. And Steve, I'm just wondering, do you think there's any chance within the next couple years, not long-term, but in the next couple years that Mr. Brown
00:22:49
Speaker
angles or tries to jump back into a federal position. The only reason I bring that up is because he seems to be on the forefront of a lot of issues facing our country and the province more so than some of the federal leaders. And of course, I'm talking about the conservative leader, Aaron O'Toole. He seems to get out of the gate faster than Aaron on issues. But just your thoughts on that. Has that ever crossed your mind?
00:23:12
Speaker
Absolutely and I think that's a very insightful observation Jody because of all the mayors, there's 444 municipalities in the province of Ontario and then I guess you know triple or quadruple that if you want to go out across the country and of all of the mayors of all of the municipalities in this country it was Brampton's Patrick Brown who got out there first and before any other
00:23:34
Speaker
in saying that Bill 21 in Quebec, the law that has been at the center of so much controversy, saw a teacher lose her job because of wearing a hijab. He was the one who came out and said, this law is wrong and we should try and overturn it. Now we can sort of discuss another time whether that's a good strategy or a bad strategy and could end up, you know, boomerang, having a boomerang effect of some kind. But the fact is he's out there. And, you know, he
00:24:01
Speaker
I think personally, and I haven't talked to him about this. I don't know. So what I'm telling you right now is just my impressions. But, you know, he left federal politics. He was originally a member of parliament, a not particularly influential one at all. He was one of the very few members of Stephen Harper's caucus, as Tony will well remember, who was not in Canada, who was not a parliamentary secretary, who was not the chair of a committee, one of the very few who didn't get any bump up at all. Right.
00:24:29
Speaker
and yet somehow managed to parlay that into the leadership of the Ontario PC party, which ended prematurely. And then somehow, even though not even a resident of Brampton at the time, managed to get himself elected as Mayor of Brampton, defeating an incumbent. So the guy's got skill. There's no doubt about that. And Chody, yes, I agree with you. I don't think that his federal aspirations have ended yet, but let's also keep in mind
00:24:53
Speaker
he's got one very young child and one baby. So I think my hunch is he should wait a little while and wait until his kids get a little older before he drags his family.
00:25:10
Speaker
to an Ottawa adventure, which is not great on family life as everyone knows. And of course, I think it would be best for him to get reelected. He could get a thumping majority in Brampton right now. That's what I would say. And so just get that done next year and then a couple of years down the road from there, look at his prospects. So he's got time. He's still a young man.
00:25:37
Speaker
And, you know, in that sense, he's got some options. I'm going to play a little bit of a partner game with our guest, Steve Paken, and we're going to move from politics, Steve, and we're going to go to pop culture.
Pop Culture Events of 2021
00:25:53
Speaker
And I'm just going to ask you a series of questions about whether you watched or participated or I've heard some of these things. So first, if these questions Tony could only have been about the great cup or the Major League Baseball playoffs or something like that, I'd stand a much better chance of answering yes to a lot of these
00:26:11
Speaker
We're not going to mention the gray cup as I know you were there and the result was not to our liking. But we'll put that one aside. First of all, have you used a QR code this year? Oh, sure. Yes. Okay. Because it is the great return of the great comeback of the year was the QR code. We're using it all the time. Did you watch the interview that Oprah did with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle?
00:26:40
Speaker
I plead guilty to that one, too. Yes, I did. Oh, you did. I did. That was seen as one of the big cultural events of the year, right? It sure was. And, you know, you got to hand it to Oprah. She really is the queen of television interviews. And she's you know, she knows what she's doing out there. She knows just how to ask. And of course, it doesn't hurt that she's got, you know, 40 years of experience to bring to interviews. And she's she comes in prepared and she knows what she's doing.
00:27:07
Speaker
Very good. Did you follow and support the Free Britney campaign? Of course I don't support because I'm scrupulously neutral in all things. But I was, let me put it this way. I wouldn't say I followed it, but I was aware of it. How's that? Okay, that's good enough. That's at least a half a point. Have you watched any episode of Squid Game? Not only have I not, I've never heard of it. Really?
00:27:34
Speaker
Oh, my word. OK. What is it? That is the now the most streamed and watched show on Netflix ever. And it's it's a cross-cultural phenomenon because it's from Korea. OK, news to me. I've never heard of it. Well, if you ever hear in politics, somebody saying, well, you're just engaging in a squid game over there, you'll know where it came from now. Gosh, this is terrible. I've never heard a squid game, but I can tell you who plays outside linebacker for the Tiger Cats. Does that count for anything?
00:28:02
Speaker
No, no, no. Okay. We're almost done. We're almost done. Have you, have you heard Olivia Rodrigo song driver's license? Uh, that's another for no on that one. Okay. Well, it's one of the most stream songs this year. And have you heard the 10 minute version of Taylor Swift's a song from red?
00:28:25
Speaker
I know who Taylor Swift is, Tony. How's that? Okay. Okay. Now this one I'm hoping you'll get. Have you watched any part of the Beatles Get Back special? I don't have that channel. Oh, no. I do have Netflix, but what's that? What's that one on? Is that Disney? Disney Plus. Disney Plus. Yeah, I don't have that channel. So the answer is no. But I really do at some point, you know, I have to say here in my defense, here comes my defense, in my defense,
00:28:51
Speaker
I've spent the last year in my quote unquote spare time when I'm not posting the agenda or the Unpoly podcast or writing columns of the TVO website. I've been working on a book on John Turner and it's almost done. I got about 100,000 words written right now. So I have missed a lot of significant pop cultural phenomena over the past year because I've been living and breathing John Napier Turner.
00:29:19
Speaker
Canada's former prime minister, former finance minister, former justice minister for about the last 14 months. He died in September of 2020 and I started working on a book about a month after that. So that's my excuse. That's a very good excuse. What do you think, Jodi? I mean, I don't even know most of the answers to those questions. Well, I don't feel so bad then.
00:29:40
Speaker
I think I tried to watch the Beatles special or whatever four times. I've told Tony this. I've tried to watch it four times and I've gotten through about 25 minutes of it total. I just can't get into it. But I mean, wasn't my timeframe, not my great performers, but not my thing. So I would love to watch it. At some point I will watch it. I just, I don't have time right now, but at some point, cause it's what does eight, 10 hours long, something like that.
00:30:05
Speaker
almost eight hours long. Yeah, almost eight hours. Okay, so at some point, I will watch it. And I know I was talking to somebody else about it earlier today. And when I did, did you guys see that movie yesterday? Yeah. Okay. I was just thinking earlier today about that movie. And and I won't spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it, but they should see it if they're Beatles fans. And the scene near the end of the movie, I know where you're going, which takes your breath away, I won't say any more about it, but it takes your breath away. And just
00:30:35
Speaker
It just brings you to tears. And the Beatles are significant people in my life, have been for 40 years, 45 years. But I don't have Disney Plus, so I got to get to that after I finished John Turner.
00:30:53
Speaker
Tony, just give him your login. Just give him your login info. Yeah, apparently he doesn't pirate it either. So he's a good citizen. He's a good citizen. But yes, I know exactly what he means. And one of the big thrills for Beatles Get Back is seeing John Lennon just alive and laughing and his wit.
00:31:16
Speaker
is something to behold. A lot of people say his wit was rapier and nasty. What I saw was the opposite of that, just like an incredibly sharp wit that found ways to just
00:31:35
Speaker
not twist a knife, but just do a little bit of a poke and make sure that people didn't put on airs and so on. I'll just give you one example where at one point in this documentary, he was being advised that he has to do the introduction
00:31:56
Speaker
He has to tape the introduction for the Rolling Stones for their movie that had been taped. And so John was saying, well, so what am I supposed to do? Just say, ladies and gentlemen, here's the Rolling Stones. And they go, yeah, that'll be great. So for the next like 20 minutes of the documentary, he stares deadpan at the camera and says, ladies and gentlemen, here's the Rolling Stones.
00:32:20
Speaker
And just like, you know, he's just making light of it. He's making a joke of it, right? But there's a little bit of sarcasm in there. You know what I mean? That's great. That's great. I do recommend it. And of course, it was just my way of talking about some of the pop culture highlights that I thought were interesting for 2021, which is a year that had its highs and lows, I would say, gentlemen. And we had moments of freedom from the COVID.
00:32:47
Speaker
In the summer months, a little bit, things loosened up and we got to go to patios and maybe do some things outside with our families and whatnot. And so it wasn't all terrible drudgery. So let's try to think of the nice things, right?
Year-End Reflections
00:33:04
Speaker
Well, apropos of your John Lennon comments, I would just say that one of the things I always look forward to about watching New Year's Eve is that after the clock strikes 12, they always play Imagine in Times Square in New York. Right. And it's a lovely way to ring in the new year because it is truly one of the most
00:33:23
Speaker
glorious and simple but glorious songs ever written and it's uh i i look forward to hearing it every year as well as mr sonatra doing new york new york there you go there you go i'm with you on sonatra at least i'm not sure i like to imagine as much as you do but that's that's fine that's just a matter of
00:33:43
Speaker
Steven Paken, it's been an honor to have you on our program, our last one of 2021, looking behind, but also looking ahead. Thank you for that. And again, you can find Steve Paken as host of the Agenda on TV Ontario. And don't forget his On Poly podcast, which is available wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're looking forward to your book as well.
00:34:07
Speaker
Jodi, Tony, thanks so much for the invitation. I always enjoy our times together and I hope you both had a Merry Christmas and I wish you all the best for a good new year.
00:34:16
Speaker
always an excellent conversation with Steve. And I guess we are one step closer to having to give him some article of clothing as he marches closer to being our first five time guest. Maybe we shouldn't have brought that up, but I think he's expecting something now. Yes. Oh yeah. He wants like a bathrobe, but I think I, I'd have to listen back when I'm pretty sure I said something about a hoodie. Yeah. We can say it's a bathrobe.
00:34:45
Speaker
I'd like to, cause I'm a big wrestling fan. I'd love to give him like one of those like Ric Flair robes. You remember what they look like at all? No, that'd be nice. Yeah. They'd be, they'd be beautiful. Be dazzled or be jeweled or get it all nice and shiny for him. So no, that was a lot of fun. And always, I love hearing the predictions for what could happen and speculating and, and, uh, we'll see what does happen coming up.
00:35:11
Speaker
Well, we're almost into 2022 and there's going to be a lot of elections in Ontario and maybe in other provinces too.
Ontario Municipal Elections
00:35:22
Speaker
So it'll be very interesting to see what happens. Yeah, I expect the municipal elections in Ontario specifically will have low voter turnout. I mean, they typically do anyway, but I think being right on the heels of a
00:35:34
Speaker
provincial election will just make it even worse. I know that, you know, it's funny. I was talking about that with someone the other day about the municipal election and the fact that I think with the new rules, you can't even announce that you're running municipally until the long weekend in May. And then it's like a eight week window to file rig. If you recall, you could announce on Jan one of an election year and then you had all that time to file. They've actually really shrunk that down. So if you think about it,
00:36:02
Speaker
The provincial election in June, I mean, you have a really small window as a municipal campaigner, you know, if you don't want to get the oxygen sucked up by the provincial stuff, right? Like you're literally looking at like July and August and September and nobody pays attention in July, August. Well, and the other thing is, too, you know, it's it's it's hard to fundraise when you've got a provincial election. And so this is all going to help incumbents, I would I would suspect.
00:36:31
Speaker
I would think so. All I know is that I'm not running. I know people ask me that all the time. I'm not. Come on. Yeah. Never say never. But no, I'm not. I'm not running it. Do you get asked about municipal politics? I don't know if I've ever asked you that, but I assume you do all the time. I do. Yeah. Yeah. Is there people that want you to run for mayor since that guy is leaving to run for provincial politics?
00:36:52
Speaker
Well, not mayor of Bracebridge, no, because I don't live in Bracebridge. Oh, sorry. What's his name again? Gordon Graydon or? Graydon Smith. Graydon Smith. Ontario PC candidate in Paris and Muskoka. But no, there'll be other people who will be running for that, I'm sure. But yeah, no, I'll keep my fingers in a few pies, municipally in Muskoka, but I have no intention of running.
00:37:20
Speaker
All right, Tony, once again, don't forget to check out lunipolitics.com. You can find out exclusive content, shows that you can't hear anywhere else. Use the code podcast to get 50% off your annual subscription. That's at lunipolitics.com. And our presenting sponsors, we gotta thank them again, John Mutton and the team at Municipal Solutions. You can find them at municipalsolutions.ca.
00:37:42
Speaker
And then Trevor Townsend, who is an investment advisor at Canaccord Genuity Corporation. You can find Trevor at trevertownson.ca. And then, of course, our friend Stephen J. Sparling, who has the great municipal advice as well. You can find him at haltongr.com. All right, Tony, we will see you in the new year. Yes. And looking forward to a lot of great shows coming up. And enjoy the rest of your week, and we will talk soon. Absolutely.