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Getting Unstuck
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This week on And Another Thing, Jodie Jenkins and Tony Clement welcome Tim O'Connor, author of "Getting Unstuck: 7 Transformational Practices for Golf Nerds." Tune in as they dive into the mental game of golf, exploring how to overcome self-defeating behaviors and unlock your true potential on the course. Whether you're a seasoned pro or weekend warrior, this episode offers insights to take your game to the next level!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Beginnings
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of and another thing, the podcast that continues to set the bar in the world of podcasts. My name is Jody Jenkins. And I'm Tony Clement. And Tony, I know, I know you probably don't want me to bring this up, but I know you were a guest. I know you were a guest recently. Yes. On Humble and Fred. Yes. You know, long time broadcasting legends. Legends. Yeah. Well, no. Yeah. And we've talked about this. Like when I was in broadcasting school,
00:00:52
Speaker
Like I wanted to be Humble Howard, seriously. Yeah, I can i can see that he's very good at his at his trade for sure. Yeah, because that was early 2000s. They were like, everyone wants to get to be where Humble and
Political Bias and Listener Feedback
00:01:08
Speaker
Fred are. But anyway, you were on the show, yeah and as you often do, they bring you in, like they bring you in to kind of comment on political things, correct? right That's true. For the most part. I'm one of their chief political correspondents, that is correct.
00:01:20
Speaker
and without getting into too much detail you had indicated that you did the appearance you did the usual banter with them which goes well it's it's a fun time the great guys yeah and then the next day though this is something that i don't believe has ever happened with an appearance of yours they received feedback listener emails that were negative towards you that were subsequently read on air, which is great for entertainment purposes. No, they didn't. They didn't. They read they read um the comments of disagreeing my point of view. They did not read the comments about me personally. I want to make here ok make that clear. Well, they should have because that would have been even better. Yeah. on yeah that's But yes. But anyway, you are how do you feel about that?
00:02:09
Speaker
I'm a bit hurt. okay you know you know The snowflake in me is not very happy, but you know I think that there they they have been on an anti-Trump tear for four years? yeah I don't know, more than that. And so I think that their audience now trends towards skepticism, not only of Trump, which is a different category altogether, but any conservatives, or at least the vintage of conservative that is Pierre Poliev.
00:02:43
Speaker
Uh, you know, and, uh, I, I think that, uh, Pierre Poliev is fit for the times, but, uh, you know, he's a little bit sharper than Brian Mulroney used to be, or Joe Clark used to be, or something like that, right? Let's be honest. So, uh, there's a, you know, uh, there's a group, uh, mostly in Toronto that, uh, uh, you know, like, like, uh, conservative politicians who are a bit more gentle and therefore lose every election.
00:03:13
Speaker
Oh, did I say that out loud? yeah here
Guest Introduction: Tim O'Connor and His New Book
00:03:16
Speaker
Here's the deal. Our guest today, who we are going to get to shortly, yes has just written a book. he's ah He's a renowned author and his latest book might help you get out of a rut that you're in. Okay. I need to get out of a rut.
00:03:29
Speaker
We're going to talk golf, but this book can apply to several facets of life. also And hopefully by the time we get through our sponsorship here in a second, he is still there because he's probably listening to our dialogue going, what the hell have I got myself into? Oh, my word. Okay, so anyway, each week this show is brought to you by the team at Municipal Solutions. Of course, they've been our presenting sponsor since day one. I should also say we're celebrating five years of doing the program. ah I know. what Isn't it crazy? Five years, man. It's great. Not to continue to pump our guests' tires, but I don't think five years even holds a candle.
00:04:13
Speaker
to their podcast. They also have a podcast. We'll talk about that as well. Yes, we will. Yeah. So John and the team at Municipal Solutions, um we can't thank them enough for their continued support. And Tony, I know that you can expand on that and much more. Yes, of course, municipalsolutions.ca, John Mutton and the gang. John is healing well, I understand, to Jody, yeah from his his ah Brazilian jujitsu, a little escapade. ah So we wish him well and a full recovery very quickly.
00:04:40
Speaker
But in the meantime, they are working very hard. They are your project management team for rezonings and development approvals. Municipal Solutions cuts through the municipal red tape. We know there's a little bit of that, Jody, to bring your project to fruition. Go to municipalsolutions.ca for all of your municipal solutions needs. And then Kelly Mitchell, yeah, KWM Consulting, they're still a sponsor, they're great. They have been in the lobbying and advocacy business for over 23 years. They support companies and small businesses to deal with governments. And the company believes in honest and ethical advice and the value of hard work. Contact Kelly Mitchell at kwmconsulting.com or simply call Kelly directly, 416-728-888. 8287. And as always, we are very thankful for our terrestrial radio sponsor. That is Hunters Bay Radio, huntersbayradio dot.com. They are in Muskoka 88.7 FM. And then every Saturday morning, they repeat a number of excellent podcasts, including and another thing podcasts. So we thank them for that.
00:05:49
Speaker
Excellent. And before we get to our guests, Tony, just to kind of cancel out some of the negativity we were talking about earlier, we get comments on our show here quite frequently through Spotify, where you can actually comment. I think it's one of the few platforms where you can comment. And anyway, JessK14, obviously not a real name, but maybe your name's Jess, but not the K-14. Maybe your last name starts with a K, I don't know. Yeah, it could be, yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
Jess K-14 wrote us and said, great podcast guys, love the flow and obviously I love the content. It's good to hear real conversations about Canadian politics currently hard to get sometimes. Yeah. I was at a lunch in downtown Toronto today and a passerby said, love your podcast, Jody. so Could have been, could have been Jess K-14. It could have been Jess K-14. And of course we've got a big announcement next podcast about a new sponsor. That's right. That was generated by a conversation where the person gave me some very positive feedback about and another thing podcast. So we're, we're definitely setting the bar, Jodie. Very high. Our guest, our guest today is a gentleman I've known for a long time. He probably, I i feel like it's been like 20 years. I don't know. Could be right. Could be wrong.
00:07:03
Speaker
might be a little less than that. ah He's a ah great author, good friend of the show he's been on before. ah We met through the golf space. He's got a great background with live or musicians. You guys actually have that and in common. He's interviewed a ton of huge, huge stars in the world of music. um But the reason we have him on tonight is to get his thoughts on Donald Trump. No, I'm just joking. but he He's on to talk about his latest book.
Exploring 'Swing Thoughts' Podcast
00:07:31
Speaker
It's called Getting Unstuck, Seven Transformational Practices for Golf Nerds. It's written by the incomparable Tim O'Connor. Tim, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Jody. Thanks for the invite, and nice to meet you kind of on the radio podcast thing, Tony. Yeah, for sure, Tim. This is great to have you on. I'm really excited about this.
00:07:52
Speaker
So Tim, before we get into this book, yeah I do want to just chat about your podcast experience because you've had one. Tell us how long and it's called Swing Thoughts. You do it with Humble Howard. Yeah. and And you've been doing that like you guys were a little ahead of your time. Yeah, you know, we might have been. um Yeah, that was nine years ago, 2015. We started to talk about it because What happened was I did a magazine article on Howard and he said, yeah, yeah that's his favorite subject is him. So ah we ah we connected and found that we were both fascinated by the mental side of the game. And we just had a couple of like really entertaining lunches. And I said something along the lines that we should record this. And so, yeah, we gave it a shot and he put up with me um at the time I was about a
00:08:47
Speaker
a 28 handicap broadcaster. and But he's had a lot of patience and work with me and yeah, it's nine years. We're going into our 10th next year and we've done something like 270 episodes. Fantastic. my My sister went, who knew you could talk about golf that much? Well, and and I don't have to tell you, Howard Glassman, he's a pretty darn good good golfer now, isn't he?
00:09:16
Speaker
Oh my gosh, Howard is a very good player. So among golfers, he's known as a scratch player. So that means he regularly shoots par. So it scores like 72 and
Insights from 'Getting Unstuck' Book
00:09:30
Speaker
all of that. Yeah, he's he's a very, very good golfer. um But he is indeed um obsessive about the game. He has a golf club in his hand.
00:09:39
Speaker
pretty well every day and um that's basically where I ice borrowed the phrase golf nerds was from him because I just really think it's so apropos for people like him, me, who obsess about this game and and do silly things with their golf clubs sometimes and lose their loose their stuff. Can we say bad words on this show? I don't know.
00:10:05
Speaker
You can, it hasn't been done often, but you can if you want. Well, we can use our shit, you know? Yeah, man. There you go. I've never, it's never happened to me, but I know what you mean. So if you're not a, if you don't like that language, please direct, I'm just going to read out your cell phone number. No, no, it was directed to Howard Glassman.
00:10:23
Speaker
um So Tim, you wrote this your latest book here, which by the way, I appreciate the copy of it. I'm halfway through the book, Getting Unstuck, Seven Transformational Practices for Golf Nerds. Just give us a little background on how this one came to be. Was this something that had been percolating for a while? Is this something that came together rather quickly or?
00:10:46
Speaker
Well, um I'm not going to give you like, you know, when I was born in dark and stormy night, but my background is as a journalist, I've written four previous books, I worked for um some different news agencies, like you referred to earlier, I was a music critic, I interviewed people like Bowie, whatnot, but I was always an obsessive golfer. And so I became a golf writer in the 90s. And that's what I did. I covered seven masters. As I say, I wrote books, including the biography of Mo Norman,
00:11:16
Speaker
And then I drifted into the consulting space for a while and then got into into coaching. And, you know, I've always been a writer and, you know, I would poke away trying to get some kind of book going, um but i never I never finished it. But then I finally decided about 18 months, two years ago or so that, okay, I'm going to freaking do a book. So I started to write a book, but it became this sprawling epic. And I went, you know, I'm never going to get this damn thing done. So it occurred to me that the last chapter of my book had five
00:11:53
Speaker
basic practices or so five or six or so, I went, hey, you can just put this out. And it was always my plan to put in kind of what I call interludes, which are kind of like first-person stories about my experiences in golf and with various people in golf. And so that's how this book came to be. I just centered on ah seven practices that I think that golfers can can use to get what I call unstuck. And so I'll just drone on a little bit more. in the The overwhelming majority of golfers, they they want to improve. And there's a subset that I i call golf nerds who they ache, they crave, they just desire to get better. And so they invest so much of themselves in
00:12:43
Speaker
into the game through maybe taking lessons, ah scrolling through YouTube all the time, or on their phone looking for golf tips, reading books. And I was certainly one of the those guys, and Howard was, but the problem is is that with all that energy and trying hard to make a perfect backswing and do everything the right way, is that In fact, we're just self-interfering. I realized after 20 years of trying to become a you know a scratch golfer that I was a paralysis by analysis basket case. I was, in it in effect, stuck.
00:13:22
Speaker
So through coaching and through different things that I've done, I've realized that it's it's not so much that we can't make a good golf swing. We can't you know turn our hips properly or shift our weight. or And a lot of times it's not even just our thinking, but it's it's in effect our behaviors. It's the things that we do over and over again, even though they even self-sabotage us. And you for sake of example, a golfer and I was certainly one of these, if you're struggling on the golf course,
00:13:52
Speaker
you know I start to go through my mental rolodex of swing tips and try and find something or you know or after a round run to the range in a panic to try and find something to fix my problem. and That is not the way anybody develops skill.
00:14:10
Speaker
so The book is just is a way to help people become more aware of their behaviors and then start to apply some practices so they can start to change them and start moving towards playing golf in ah in a freer way where they can access their talent and their skill and their their experience. Because really, at the end of the day, when people choke and whatnot, it's it's an access issue. they can't access what they've got and
Applying Book Principles Beyond Golf
00:14:44
Speaker
perform you know as they'd certainly like to. Tim, I wanted to kind of make a comment and also ask a question, so I'll kind of wrap it up together and then you can unpack it as you see fit. At one point in the book, I think it's near the beginning, you talk about um how golf could actually be substituted out. Everything in that this book, and it's
00:15:05
Speaker
is As you said golf the word golf can be substituted out and it can apply to marriage it can apply to business it can apply to life in general which i think is is very cool i want to ask is that was that intentional the second thing was.
00:15:19
Speaker
you know I've played a lot of golf with you, and I talked about this before we came on air. I shouldn't say a lot. we've had that I can maybe say, I think somewhere between five, seven rounds, which isn't a lot, but I played with you and at different events. but yeah it was It was interesting to see you kind of be very transparent with a side of you that I didn't even know existed and some of the meltdowns. and It was interesting to read. and Um, do you still fight those? Do those urges or those things still arise even though knowing what you know now and Uh, no, uh jody i've completely ascended i'm, uh I'm now enlightened.
00:15:58
Speaker
um and it's hard i Actually, I really don't. I haven't for for a while, not since the last one was actually a couple of years ago, my club championship. um When I four putted, you know, I felt like an absolute idiot, but I didn't do any violence to my golf clubs or anything. But um what I find in terms of the question you asked about how the things in my book apply to everything. so i do you know Through the years I've done like more than 20 years of what I call men's work in a group called the man mankind project.
00:16:36
Speaker
and And I've done a ton of research just into psychology and how our belief systems and the stories we have ourselves, they they really rule what we do. It's almost like we follow blindly this script of our of our lives. And it goes, you know, usually right back to things that happened to us in childhood and the messages we took from our parents and the people around us.
00:17:03
Speaker
So what I'm getting at is that whatever we do, whether it's golf, playing guitar, being an HR manager, a VP, whatever. whether it's golf or whether it's any of those things, we all tend to have the same behaviors. So one of the things that I, you know, if if you watched Ted Lasso, remember that Danny, the character of football is life. um I kind of ah took on that and said that golf is life because golf is life and life is golf. And what I'm saying is that we show up in the same way in most of the areas of our life. So when we're trying to become,
00:17:41
Speaker
Say a better partner or you know or parent um a lot of the things that keep us stuck or regressing into behaviors we don't like.
Emotional Awareness in Golf and Life
00:17:53
Speaker
we're not really We're not really aware of them, and we do them all the time, but they're the same types of things that affect us, that keep us feeling you know mediocre in golf you know as yeah in our jobs and different parts of our lives. So it's really, all this stuff in my book is generally applicable to everything because We can have this surface level way that we go through life it's almost like in a trance but we're not aware really of what we're thinking about or what we're doing but when you drop down kind of below.
00:18:29
Speaker
kind of get down underneath and ask, what am I really doing and really being, what am I thinking? What am I feeling? Then you become aware of what's actually going on and now you can take action to respond perhaps differently than you historically have. So that's a feedback I've gotten through all my ah golf coaching stuff is that most of the things I talk about golf are equally applicable to the rest of our life.
00:18:57
Speaker
i want to ask you about that as well, but with a bit of a twist. In your observation, ah because you're talking about being present and ah you know being aware, self-aware, that's basically what you're talking about. Do you find a difference ah in meeting the challenges of golf from male golfers versus women golfers?
00:19:22
Speaker
um Yes, I generally do because male golfers, and this is generalization, so you're always in a bit of danger when you're generalizing. But most men, it's kind of like an old George Carlin routine.
00:19:39
Speaker
um It's like feelings like get them out of here like wipe them on flaming wood, you know anything get away from me feelings like so shut them down and so a lot of times men Particularly golfers. they They don't even know what they're feeling. I haveve often said that men have five feelings anger anger anger anger um But things like sadness shame ah Grief um that stuff, you know.
00:20:10
Speaker
A lot of times, a lot of men are are, frankly, just numb to it. So what do they do? Well, pour alcohol on it, ah work a lot, just think, they're try and think their way through something. And um so what in fact happens is that, we so we don't even, when I say we as ah as a male, um often we're just we're not even aware of what's going on within us. And that's the problem. If you want to make a change in anything,
00:20:41
Speaker
You have to be aware of what's going on. so Yeah, we're not we're not necessarily, and again, generalizing, we're not the best communicators. No, 100% because so much of our lives is quite frankly generated by fear. Yeah. we well and so so how do you work How do you work with male golfers to get out of that? Well, first of all, it's to say that to to work with them to understand that you're feeling if you feel so ah kind of there's five to me five main feelings that we have. Mad, sad, glad, scared, shame. And in our society, we get all these messages all the time that we're supposed to be happy all the time. And and in fact, you're doing it wrong.
00:21:28
Speaker
you know, if you're a little bit depressed, or you're feeling shame or whatnot. And so, but that's not the way we roll as humans, we're, we're messy. And so we embrace all these different ways. And so it's like, basically, to say that, you know, man, it's okay to feel this stuff doesn't mean you like it.
00:21:48
Speaker
but it's quite normal to be like this. And a lot of lot of men, and a lot of women too, think that if they're thinking bad thoughts, they're feeling bad, that they're they're somehow doing it wrong. they're not They're not doing things according to the latest book that Oprah gave an okay to, that they're screwing up somehow. But it's okay just to acknowledge that, okay, this is what's going on for me right now.
00:22:16
Speaker
And that's all all it is, is just acknowledging this is what's happening. Because if you're not, ah again, like I said earlier, if you're not aware of what's going on with inside you, and you're not happy with yourself, you're not satisfied, you want to move forward, unless you're aware of what you're going on, you can't move forward. But I'll just sort of close this by saying, awareness is curative. As soon as I'm aware of what's going on within me, then I'm in a position where I can start to respond differently than react, you know kind of almost like unconsciously. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, it's funny you mentioned Ted Lasso because there's a lot of psychology in that show as well, right? It's not just about a football team. Oh yeah. that that The key thing about that show was I think the theme was about transformation.
00:23:12
Speaker
about change, about people moving forward from one place to another. You look at at the ah the the arc of that show and some of the some of the characters, how they changed. um I can't remember the names, but you remember ah you know the grouchy former captain? Yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah how he he you know All he could do was grunt. you know And by the end of the show, he said,
00:23:36
Speaker
He's somewhat of a different person and ah the self-absorbed star player. so roy Roy Kent, you're referring to. Yeah, Roy Kent, and then I can't remember who the other guy was. Jamie Tarte. Jamie, yes, Jamie Tarte, yes. The Tarte. So yeah, the show revolved around ah football or soccer, as we call it over here, but it was mainly about ah transformation.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah. And and you are you getting a lot of good feedback then from people that are are accepting your ways through this book ah saying, hey, look, it it's made it's made a difference in my golf or in my life?
Feedback and Reflections on Coaching
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, the book has been the book has only been published about three weeks. Well, come on now, Tim.
00:24:26
Speaker
i'm getting no I'm getting really nice feedback, but I've been doing this kind of work for, gosh, you know since since two since the early 2000s. And so you know I coach people in in their golf. A lot of the coaching I do starts out in golf, largely sort of in in the mental space. I do coach people in there and the golf game, the actual swinging of the golf club.
00:24:53
Speaker
but Most of it is what I would call life coaching. And it goes back to what Jodi was talking about earlier, is that if you're trying to make change in your whether it's in your golf, ah how you're getting along you know with your family, ah things in your business or other things that you do,
00:25:14
Speaker
You need to be taking a look of what's actually going on and how you know you know what beliefs do you have about yourself? What are the stories you tell about yourself you recurring all the time? you know and and Golf is a great example. it's It shows really starkly what we believe about ourselves. you know For the sake of example, you know someone who struggles in a sand trap and you hear them go like, I suck.
00:25:40
Speaker
I will always suck at this. I can't do this." And you you read it so that's the interesting thing about golf is is that it's really transparent about what goes on. And so someone who's saying those things about themselves, you might just think it's just someone just spouting off like an awesome some steam. But when you dig a little deeper, you get down underneath the surface, you see that these are this these are their belief systems.
00:26:06
Speaker
you know And the overwhelming majority of people, quite frankly, get are getting just a tsunami of messages through social media, through TV, through movies, that you're just not good enough, pal. Unless you meet this standard of how you can look, how you how you talk, the car you drive, and for golfers, the way you swing a golf club, your score is, well, then you're substandard. So you need to you need to up your game by doing what the experts tell you to do.
00:26:34
Speaker
and so you know it we're really kind of We're in a society where right where it's just this tsunami of information that I think really keeps people in this state of of anxiety and feeling insecure rather than grasping that that really, just as a consequence of a human being, they're frickin' brilliant.
00:26:59
Speaker
and We all really are, but it's so hard because of our our upbringings. you know It's a kind of a squishy word, but the wounds that we've got carry through life. Yeah, no I feel it, man. I do. Interesting. and I know that Tim and I, some of the courses that we played, i know we've told that I've told this story before and when I had my other radio program, we've shared it, but one of the times that Tim and I were playing at Blue Springs, which I'm assuming is still your home course. That's correct. Yeah, so we were playing there once and we rescued a turtle off one of the fairways, which is one of my favorite stories. But now now after reading this book, i'm I'm starting to wonder if you went back and like killed that turtle or something after. No. I'm just kidding. Well, what Jodie's referring to is oh in in the book, I have i put these things that I call interlude.
00:27:59
Speaker
There are generally just some stories throughout my golf you know history, if you will, and a lot of them are about me basically losing my shit. I mean, just getting praised by golf because you know and and I've talked to so many other golfers who are obsessive about the game like Howard and I and others who it's it's it's just crazy how this game can just tie us in knots. yeah and um
00:28:29
Speaker
you know generally kind of calm, cool, been collected from a lot. But um you know i'm just not ah but every once in a while, just things would just build up and I'd do stupid things. and you know I broke a driver one time, in ah in not intentionally.
00:28:51
Speaker
but so that you Oh man, I felt so terrible. I was playing with my parents and my brother. and Oh my god. just know I've been there, brother. I've been there. I'm an absolute idiot. and ah and a you know It was a mortal sin. you know i just the History's a Roman Catholic. I got that baggage. you know sure Sure. Yeah. so i'm waiting I keep waiting for you to say, Jody, don't read page 73 because I do go and kill the turtle.
00:29:23
Speaker
What's the actual pseudonym for Jody in the book? That's what I want to know. I don't think so. I'm trying to think. I remember playing with Tim at Blue Springs. I remember playing with you at Osprey Valley at an event for G-Jack, Gulf journalists.
00:29:41
Speaker
I remember playing a long time ago, I believe, at Rocky Crest. Oh, yeah, Rocky Crest. Because we were up there for some, there was another event. They housed us all at the, you know, the the not apartments, but like the little condo thing. Yeah, they do. Anyway, nice, nice part of the world. But yeah, no, it's listen, Tim, this has been really interesting. I want to thank you for what you're doing. I think it's going to help a lot of people. Well, thanks very much. Yeah.
Where to Find Tim O'Connor's Work
00:30:09
Speaker
How cal can people get the book? What's the best way? Well, it's on Amazon. So you if you go on there and and just if you put in my name, you'll see a couple of my Mo Norman books will come up. um This book will come up. um So yeah, go to Amazon. And if you're if you're intrigued by what I've been talking about, you could check out um my substack. So I put out, they're called newsletters, but they they're blogs, basically. it's So it's ah T O'Connor dot substack dot com, or you can just go on substack and search for my name and um you you'll find stuff that I've written there. And I've archived a lot of blogs on O'Connor golf dot CA. So I think I've covered the gamut there, guys. Yeah, no, that's great, man. ah you You're kind of like the Jordan Peterson of the golf world, it sounds like. yeah
00:31:01
Speaker
I don't know. there go You don't have to comment on that. It's OK. Yeah, I'm going to let that one go. You're going to let that one go. I'll even it out. You're kind of like the Kamala Harris of the Gulf. Oh, great. We're going to cover both sides of the spectrum there. Yeah, exactly. always Always a pleasure. And hopefully you'll consider coming back on at some point. Oh, yeah. I had a lot of fun. and thank Thanks for the invitation, guys. It was was great to talk to you again.
00:31:29
Speaker
Now for sure. We need to get out and golf all three of us actually. Oh yeah. And humble because humble owes us around. He owes us around. Really? Yes. We were supposed to play with him for the last two years. He's ghosted us numerous times. He's a hard guy to arrange a game with because he plays so many tournaments and he's so protective of his time playing with his fellow scratch golfer buddies at Glencarin. I generally play one game around with Howard. We're playing ah a two-man geezers tournament together. and This year, actually, we won our division. so and only There you go. yeah No, he's ah he's out there, man. He's got trophies and all sorts of recognition. and good for Good for Howard. I think i think that's great.
00:32:19
Speaker
great pastime for him, and he's very good at it. Yeah, you can put that intensity to work. Oh, yeah, for sure. All right. I'm going to thank our sponsors. We got to, of course, thank the team at Municipal Solutions for their continued support. You can find them online at municipalsolutions.ca.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah, and we've got KWM Consulting. Visit to Kelly Mitchell at kwmconsulting.com for their advocacy. And again, thanks to our terrestrial radio sponsor, huntersbayradio.com. Tim, thanks again. And Tony, we will do this in seven days. You got it.