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A wild week!
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In this week's episode of "And Another Thing," Tony Clement is flying solo and welcomes Kelly Mitchell, the president of KWM Consulting. They dive into a variety of pressing issues, including the ongoing LCBO strike and the shocking recent assassination attempt on former President Trump. Tune in for an engaging and insightful conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Kick-off and Sponsor Acknowledgment
00:00:00
Speaker
And another thing And another thing And another thing
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of and another thing. I'm the co-host Tony Clement here on behalf of Jodi, who just couldn't make it this evening, but that's okay. Well, I'm sure we'll have them back soon, but we do have a special guest. I will describe that to you very, very shortly. Thanks again for being part of this 202nd episode. of, and another thing podcast. Let's thank our sponsors right off the top, of course, top of the slate goes to municipal solutions. John Mutton and the gang doing great work there in the municipal sector, Ontario's leading MZO firm. They're there for development services, project management, development approvals, permit expediting,
00:01:08
Speaker
planning services with municipalities, even engineering and architectural services, building permits, even minor variances and land services. It's all there. Go to municipalsolutions.ca and John and the gang will help you out. And then, of course, our our newest sponsor KWM Consulting. Yes, KWM has been in the lobbying and advisory and advocacy business for over 23 years, and they support companies, including small businesses. to deal with governments. The company believes in honest ethical advice and the value of hard work. And you can contact Kelly Mitchell of KWM at KWM Consulting dot com or just phone Kelly at 416-728-8287. And finally, we want to thank our terrestrial sponsor. That is Hunters Bay Radio in Muskoka, Hunters Bay Radio dot com.
Golf Tournament Highlights with Kelly Mitchell
00:02:02
Speaker
Every Saturday morning, they have a whole suite of podcast which they rebroadcast including and another thing podcast but other podcast selections as well so go to hundreds bay radio dot com and speaking of our sponsors we have a very special guest today which is none other than kelly mitchell of kwm consulting kelly welcome to the program thank you it's great to have you on of course and
00:02:28
Speaker
ah You were we were just talking before we got recording. Of course, you did attend Jodi's very special golf tournament with the long drive competition as part of it. And you were saying it was something that you will not forget. Is that right? Oh my goodness, that was so much fun. Of course, the company that we had there was pretty amazing as well. And as you know, we got one of the pro long ball driver competition or competitors embedded in our foursome. So we got to actually meet the person and and play golf and then be amazed at how far he can hit it. And you might recall Tony at one of the very first holes, I saw him lining up and he was pointed almost like
00:03:11
Speaker
45 degrees away from where I thought the hole was. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, you've never played this course before, but yeah what what are you doing? You know, and he's like, you know, rest assured young fella. i yeah get out And sure enough, he hit it about two feet off of the green. So that was an absolute thrill. What, what amazing athletes those people were. Yeah. Matt Stubbs was his name. The guy that was with our foursome great guy from Australia living in Austin, I think I'm going to say something like that. And he Nashville, Nashville and that he's dating miss Kentucky or something. that's correct That's right. So I don't know he's doing okay. Apparently that's the lifestyle of, uh, of a professional long, uh, ball hitter. So, uh, that's right. Yeah. No, don't, uh, don't knock it until you tried it, I guess. Yeah. No, it was a great tournament. Jody did a great job and, uh, he said i think he's still recovering. He has just such a, I put in thousands of thousands of hours, uh, to, to make sure that that was right.
Insights on KWM Consulting and Political Landscape
00:04:05
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but Tell us a little bit about KWM and kind of the consulting you're doing. Maybe a let our audience know a little bit more about your company.
00:04:12
Speaker
Well, I feel a little bit blessed because way back into the late 80s and 90s, I was living in Fort Francis, Ontario at a place that you've been to, but it's it's a unique spot because it's essentially on the US border and on the Manitoba border. Of course, the joke out there is we would call it ah Southwestern Ontario and people in Windsor could never understand the joke, I guess. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. So it was a fantastic place, but I got lucky because in the area that I'm from, which is Halliburton.
00:04:44
Speaker
ah The member at the time was a guy named Chris Hodson who became a cabinet minister and he was the minister of natural resources and at that time also Northern Development of Mines. right And he had asked if I would come down to work because I was a professional forester and I hunt and fish and I know the park system. And I'll be honest with you Tony, probably the first time that you and I met way back into like 1996, I knew nothing about politics, literally nothing. I'd never taken a poli sci course or a history course. I was a straight math and science person. ah When I left the company I was working for, I was a computer programmer primarily for about the last three years of my forestry career. so i was
00:05:23
Speaker
I was pretty far away from politics right and started working in 1996 under the Mike Harris government. just I got so lucky of of meeting great people and having very good bosses and mentors like yourself. And in 2000, on April 1st, seemed like the appropriate time to leave government. i I left, I was campaigning a lot at that time. And there was a lot that was happening, the reform party and Canadian alliance and of course, Mike Harris had stepped down and we had a leadership race provincially and all that stuff. So after that period of time, I started up a you know government relations lobby firm and I've been president of two of them.
00:06:03
Speaker
and it's It's pretty interesting work. it As you know, there's been so many changes on the attitudes of the electorate, on on how governments operate. I used to think, and I'm going to use ah federal examples, but you know when I was a young staffer, to me, spin political spin was really about putting something in the appropriate context for what you were trying to argue. And now it's it just seems the government's just willing to lie to us. And that's a change. There's lots of other changes. The KWM represents for profit, not for profit. We will do work for charities as well. And it's all really about, I think of our ourselves as being guides. And so it's about trying to find the right path for an organization to get what they're looking for from government.
First Nations Training Institutes' Educational Impact
00:06:54
Speaker
So sometimes that can be changes to regulations or policies. Sometimes it's putting a new act in. A lot of times it might be procurement.
00:07:02
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There are a lot of pieces of why organizations are trying to interface with government. And we work on being guides. And as you know so well, there's a political part to it. And then there's a process piece that normally is run by the civil servants. And you have to be able to work on both of those. Nothing happens exclusively in one side or the other. It doesn't happen very often. And so we're pretty good at figuring out how to work through a process, make it less complicated and ponderous. And what I say about a good lobbyist is is they essentially have the ability to speed up time. And what I mean by that is if a process was normally going to take a year and you could do it in less than that, ah then you've done a good service. and Right. Right. No, no, I get it. And and it it would you say that most of it is is in Northern Ontario is it or is it across Ontario?
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's across Ontario. Although I have to admit, every time I pick up a client that's in Northern Ontario, it makes me a little bit more excited. and Okay. ah But yeah, it's really a soup to nuts. But you know, you're, as somebody who knows Perry Salmos Gokas so well, you're seeing and I'm seeing changes in the north. Yeah, there's a bit of a swagger that's going on in Northern Ontario. And it's not just because the EV and the supply chain, which is mining, Right. But there's lots that's happening on, on the tech sector. And of course, forestry is always another big employer, right? You're seeing all kinds of things happening, you know, when, when the Mike Harris government made the decision to put Northern medical schools in Sudbury and in Thunder Bay, and then Thunder Bay picked up a law school. And, you know, there's just lots of interesting stuff that's taking place right across Timmins, campus gazing, it's, it's happening everywhere. Do you do a lot of work with First Nations too?
00:08:48
Speaker
I do over the course of 20 years, I've done a fair amount of work. And one of the areas that I'm doing a lot of work right now is on First first Nation training institutes. So there are seven training institutes in the province. And um so the one that we represent is the is called Seven Generations Educational Institute up in Fort Francis. And it's interesting because where the government will fund colleges on a consistent basis, which of course is critical because they have a big infrastructure and they need to know what funding
00:09:20
Speaker
envelopes they have going forward. We still aren't that way when it comes to the First Nation institutes, training institutes. And seven generations has about 200 employers. They do everything from degree i programs, diplomas, but skills training. And so and they they're very market oriented. So right for example, Ring of Fire, it's going to require train people in this area, then they will put programs together that will train those people. But the key to it, Tony, is that they provide certified training so that if you become a welder through their program, then you're the same as you were a welder who was working in an auto plant down in
00:10:01
Speaker
in Windsor. So you can move around transferable skills. It's really important that whatever training programs they have, are they're certified and they've been hugely successful. What they require from government and is a little bit more of a partnership so that they have stable funding because Because what happens if the program ends, the funding runs out. And this is a lot of its federal funding. right If that funding ends, then they have to lay off the staff. And of course, like any staff, they say, okay, well, I'd like to work with you because I live in Northwestern Ontario, but I got to get a job. So if I have to move, and then that that qualified person no longer is available to you. so
00:10:38
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But yeah, so one of the things in the North is a good example of some of these changes to Swagger that I talked about, is that as we train more and more people, a lot of them are First Nation people, it gives them the skills to get into the economy closest to their community, which helps their community and of course helps them. And those training programs are really important to them. And not all these people would necessarily go to a college, a Khan College or something like that. They might find the travel and impediment to them because, you know, they don't have a car or they literally, culturally, there may be some impediments. And so going to a First Nation Training Institute really helps them.
00:11:18
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ah Cool. Okay.
LCBO Privatization Debate and Consumer Perspectives
00:11:20
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Now, i let me broaden it out because you did mention Ontario more generally or broadly. And I guess the big issue right now in the province is the LCBO strike. And ah I went to Graydon Smith, who's my my own local MPP, um had a barbecue picnic in Huntsville this past weekend. So I showed up to that and they had there was a bunch of LCBO employees there with with ah ah with placards. And, you know, they're kind of picketing the perimeter of the of the barbecue. And, you know, one of them offered me a leaflet, which I did accept. ah But I said, look, I I'm a teetotaler. I don't I i'm I'm not your target market for LCBO. But i have thanks for the leaflet kind of thing. But yeah, any any thoughts on how that's going, this this this strike?
00:12:11
Speaker
i find it i find it interesting for sure i think The Premier has it pegged pretty right, for me at least, as somebody who is isn't a teetotaler, and certainly I know the LCBO. The challenge, so I'm gonna go back to my Fort Francis days. Back in 1990, for example, they had an agency store already, and I believe it was out of Coke in Ontario, a little small town kind of in in the middle between Fort Francis and Thunder Bay. That's in 1990. In the greater Halliburton area, I think we have four agency stores already up and going.
00:12:43
Speaker
they're very successful, you know, people go there, they get their groceries, they pick up their case of beer or wine or whatever. And so consumers really seems to me they want choice. And LCBO, I thought had made a really good transition from, I don't know, when you first got elected in 95, where they expanded their uh, services and they were, you know, the, the place to go if they were concerned that we were going to privatize them back in 95. So they all of a sudden, uh, had the fear of God in them and, uh, we're all about service and all about choice and all about, you know, glittery new stores, right? Yeah. I mean, the real estate market that they have right now is amazing, right? They're in every town. And of course in Toronto, it's their, their real estate portfolio must be amazing.
00:13:34
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I think it's also interesting, you know, on on the strike piece of it, they've, you know, when the Liberals were in power, Subera would have been the Minister of Finance. They almost went on strike. and And what happened, of course, is everybody went to the LCBO and they bought and just in case they went on strike. They made a ton of profit as a result of that. But I think in this case, they've misplayed what the public is looking for. and And help me on this, Tony. My understanding of the way LCBO generates profit is I buy a bottle of wine and whatever that, the LCBO is the regulator, liquor control board of Ontario. So it controls the price of liquor. And so whatever the profit is of that, you know, you take your expenses out of running LCBO, the profit goes to the,
00:14:19
Speaker
to the Crown. right And so when I hear people say, if you privatize it, the the amount that goes to the Crown, and I think the number that floats around is two and a half billion dollars, would be reduced, I don't think that argument holds water as far as I understand it, does it? No, because because the they the sale at the at the private you know retail is going to be taxed. Right. help and and And whatever the they set that price as, they aren't going to likely have the ability to, you know, I don't think you'd expect to see big sales on her or something. No, i know they they still get to set the price because it's still there's still liquor control. you're You're absolutely right.
Gen Z's Influence on Liquor Industry Dynamics
00:14:58
Speaker
I want to mention one other thing, which was well before my time, but yeah you may remember this and probably was one of the reasons why LCBO wasn't privatized back in the day.
00:15:09
Speaker
And ah you, yeah I, you're going to be chuckling at this, but people don't realize, you know, I'm talking in the, in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s. All of those jobs at the LCBO were controlled by the politicians who controlled the Government of Ontario. You're chuckling now, aren't you? kind You know it to be true. And this was like and that's where you got to make sure that that that to Johnny Jr., who was the son of your campaign manager,
00:15:43
Speaker
Got a job at at the at the lick bow and ah You know and then that when it was your time to be to get reelected They all they all piled on to your to be your sign crew. am Am I am I being accurate here? Oh That's ah that sounds far-fetched Tony oh yeah but but But the point is that that whole system eventually disappeared and now it's a professional organization with you know hiring standards and no interference really, as far as I know, no interference by politicians on hiring practices. So you know a lot of the reasons why a politician would be interested in keeping the LCBO public are not there. It's just another aspect of it. That's all I'm saying.
00:16:30
Speaker
Well, I think you're a hundred percent right. and And there's so much choice now with, you know, food as an example. but You can, you know, get Uber and Uber Eats or Dashdoor and the ability for the consumer to be able to get their product in a lot of different ways that's easier for them. ran So, you know, locally here in town, I have to admit, easily admit. I feel terrible for the people who are out walking on strike. you to know and i And I get it. I get, you know, look, this is the, the, their job situation is is changing. I get that. So and they're, they're fighting, you know, to make sure that, that the mixed and mixed drinks are not being sold ah in the corner stores and so on. I get all that, but it's hard to, uh, you know, once the door is opened, it's hard to close that door again. I agree. I really agree.
00:17:20
Speaker
so yeah Sorry, go ahead. Well, just quickly, I was out with some younger people on the weekend and I'd asked them about it. And in all honesty, they they had switched to to marijuana now that it's legal and stuff. And so their view was, whatever, you know, don't care. Well, this is this is a good point, Kelly. And I know the stats on this because I'm interested in the in the music industry, as you know. And 70 percent of Gen Z don't drink alcohol.
00:17:51
Speaker
Wow. So you know when when they're going to a concert, they're not buying the booze, which is a big problem for the venues because they get their money from the booze sales. The artists get the money from the tickets, but the venue gets the money from the booze sales and you know other other additional items that that are that are sold on site.
Trump Assassination Attempt: Repercussions and Responses
00:18:11
Speaker
So if you're if you're eating a gummy or taking your CBD before you get to the venue and not buying liquor, it's It's a big problem so yeah there's there's there's definitely a change of taste with ah Gen Z that is having an impact on the liquor markets no question about it.
00:18:29
Speaker
That's a fascinating stat. You know, these young kids, when I say young, they would have been 23, I'm guessing. They had an interesting thing and it was just straight economics. So they said it would take roughly about a buck and a half to get high to a point where you're comfortably high. And as you know, Tony, ah I've never done drugs before. So I'm out of my, I'm out of my lane here, but I get the buck and a half. And if you compare that to what it would take to get, you know, pleasantly buzzed for alcohol, it's a lot more than a half, right? yeah Oh, yeah. like yeah Especially at at at a venue that has got lots of markups. Yeah, you're absolutely right now. It's a different world.
00:19:08
Speaker
Hey, I'm going to change the subject on you because we've just got a few minutes left here. ah We got a talk and Jody would be upset if we didn't talk about the latest on US politics at the time of this recording. Donald Trump has been nominated. is His ah choice for vice president is a former author and now Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio. And of course, over the last few days, the big story has been the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, which is knocked off. And you you're a you're a big observer. This the whole talk for the last two weeks has been can can Biden put together string together a sentence to continue to be the nominee?
00:19:49
Speaker
for the Democratic Party. That's out the window now. Everybody's talking about the attempted assassination of Trump. So you as a political observer, what are you what are you making about all this? Well, ah fascinating time to be you know living through this and especially for the Americans who I think so many of them wish that they had some other choices between the two of them. And there's obviously lots of reasons why they're picking Trump and for the for the Democrats of of trying to hold on to whatever Biden was representing for them.
00:20:21
Speaker
And to your point, everything changed on Saturday at about six o'clock. It's fascinating to me. I have to admit, for JD Vance, I read his book, The Hillbilly Elegy, right when it first came out. And I, I didn't, you know, I didn't know him at all. I just read the book and I thought it was an excellent book and it really helped explain how, uh, at that point, president Trump had won the rust belt and pretty fascinating. So I look at where it's going right now, but there's two broad thoughts, I guess, you know, you and I probably have a view about Americans and guns and, and there's so many shootings. You know, someone said to me the other day about how unique it was. It's like, this is not unique at all. Not unique. Yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
yeah And ah so that to me just highlights yet again, you know, another person with with a weapon that obviously shouldn't shouldn't have a weapon. These three presidents have been shot and killed, you know, yeah Lincoln, McKinley and and Kennedy. There might be a fourth as well, I can't remember. But in any event, this is not this is not unique. Right. Sadly. And then Bobby Kennedy as he was running as a nominated ah for his nomination. And of course, re Reagan was shot. He survived. Gerald Ford was, was, was attacked by ah the Manson family. People forget about that one. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Squeaky f From, remember her.
00:21:43
Speaker
No. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. The redhead. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. like I think her first name was Lynette, actually. But anyway, I don't don't ask me why I know about the Manson family. OK, we just were not going to go there. But but yeah, no, this is as you know, it's and this is the stuff we know about Kelly. There must be dozens and dozens and dozens of stories held within the bosom of the Secret Service of other attempts on the life of the president and or the vice president. So this is you're right. It isn't new there. I just want to make this point. And, you you know, you're you're a keen political observer. The virality of the photo of Trump fist pumping with the US flag in the background and the Secret Service trying to hustle him along.
00:22:30
Speaker
What an iconic photo. And, you know, at a time when Biden is being assailed as being weak, you know, here's Trump, who is gang tackled by the Secret Service, struggles back to his feet to do the fist pump to his to his people to let him know that he was OK and, you know, chanting fight, fight, fight. And that's you can't buy media for that. I mean, that that was his instinct and that photo is going to be the most remembered photo for years now. you know it's it's so It's so iconic. So whether you like Trump or hate Trump, you got to agree that that is that has changed the course of this election. There's no question about it.
Political Civility: A Call for Change
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think it i Tony, I could agree with you more. you know We all recall when George Bush Jr. stood on that pile of rubble and said, you know I can hear you and soon the entire world will hear you or whatever that quote was. Yeah. And to me, the the photo of of Trump with the flag in the background, you have blood in his face and stuff. And and even just, the you know, him saying that when he was tackled so hard that his shoes came off, you know, saying, let me get my shoes.
00:23:50
Speaker
You know, the the sad part of this, of course, is the fact that and while this person decided he needed to take out Trump for because, you know, the person's clearly crazy, um but he killed some innocent person and yeah firefight Right, it's really wounded two others and and you know and and could have been much worse obviously. so I know, we got eight rounds off and there's going to be a lot of questions. There already are a lot of questions about how the the failure of the Secret Service to secure the site, even even if that was beyond the perimeter.
00:24:23
Speaker
you know I figure any any rooftop where you can be 400 feet away from the stage and get a shot away, that that should be in the perimeter, not outside the perimeter, but that's just me. but There's going to be a lot of questions, I'm sure, for the next little while. but It has changed the face of the of the election. Trump this week, obviously ah at the Republican National Convention. ah So he'll get wall to wall coverage on that. So I expect the polls to be very, very good for President Trump right now and very, very poor for President Biden on in the swing states like Wisconsin, which is where the yeah Republican Convention is taking place. Pennsylvania, where this this attack occurred, ah he you know, Michigan, You know, Ohio is already lost to Biden. Biden's already six or seven points behind in Ohio. He's already seven or eight points behind in Florida. You know, Texas has lost to Biden. He's 10 points behind. Georgia's lost. He's six points behind. So, yeah, not not a lot of runway for Biden to catch up is what I'm trying to say.
00:25:29
Speaker
Well, it's pretty amazing that we're in July 15th as we tape this. And of course, their voting is in November. like you know When we talk about the federal government and whether or not Trudeau decides to step down or doesn't step down, the reality is they do have a little window. Not much, not enough. Not much. yeah um ye But on the on the US s side, there's no window here. I mean, to be able to go and and and presumably they'd have to pick Kamala Harris up. There's just no time. and And and you know there's enough of a storyline around immigration and and what she hasn't done to secure the borders, ah which is one of the you know top five or four issues in the United States economy, of course, is the same for everybody, affordability and stuff. She'll get killed, I think. So yeah I don't think that they've got any... You don't mean really killed. You just mean politically.
00:26:19
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. You got to be so careful with these words. You got to be careful now, my friend. yeah and And we did talk about that earlier about, you know, we've been involved in politics you longer than me, which is which is something that not doesn't not very many people can say. And yet you and I have never hoped for violence on any of our political opponents. And I was sickened by what happened. And then you see some of the comments that go on. of people, you know, the Trump derangement syndrome and wish that the shooter was a better shooter. And you're just like, oh my goodness, how can you hope that on anybody, let alone a political leader in the, you know, the freest country? Well, it just goes to the toxicity of things now, Kelly. Jody and I have talked about this a lot, that people, you know, when you frame it, and both sides in the US are framing it this way, that
00:27:08
Speaker
unless their candidate wins, it's the end end of democracy. Both sides are doing that stuff. So when you say it that way, anything is justifiable. you know And ah so we've got to get and both ah to their credit, both Biden and Trump, at least initially in the first 48 to 72 hours, have talked about the need for civility again, how you know we've we've got it we've got to be respectful of one another and take it back from the brink. And I think that that that is a good sign. And and look, i don't but when when it comes to Justin Trudeau, I do not wish him ill. I do not wish his family ill. I wish he was out of power. yeah And I have good policy reasons for saying I wish he was out of power. But that's different from hating the man and and
00:27:55
Speaker
and wishing ill upon him. and i hope that that that kind of I know people are frustrated out there, and I know people blame Trudeau, and they they they have a right to blame Trudeau. Don't get me wrong. i mean There's a lot of policy decisions that he's made that have hurt people, but I think Pierre Poliev has even made this point in the last 24 hours saying, look you know Yeah, he he says, yeah, i I have a problem with Justin Trudeau and his policies, but we've got to dial it back a little bit in terms of our rhetoric. So ah hopefully that that that occurs now.
00:28:27
Speaker
I sure hope so too. I suspect it doesn't though. I feel like we've been rushing towards moments like this and and there's a moral superiority that certain groups have that they they feel that they should, that the end the end justifies the means. and Yeah, no, it's it's at the human condition, my friend.
Closing Remarks and Future Plans
00:28:47
Speaker
It's nothing nothing new under the sun. So having said all that, Kelly Mitchell, our time is up. It's been great having you on the program. Uh, Jodi sends his best. He, sorry, he couldn't make it tonight, ah but we want to thank you for sponsoring our program at, uh, KWM consulting.com. You can reach them. We've also got, uh, municipal solutions.ca. John mutton and the gang. They're also sponsoring and our terrestrial radio sponsor is hunters Bay radio at hunters Bay radio.com. So thanks to everybody. We'll be back in seven days.