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Forged Through Action: Randy Turner on Training, Leadership, and Resilience
126 Plays5 months ago
In this episode of And Another Thing, Jodie Jenkins and Tony Clement sit down with Randy Turner, a decorated veteran of Canada’s elite Joint Task Force-2 (JTF2) and founder of Direct Action. With 21 years of military service and a career as a top-ranked professional MMA fighter, Randy brings a wealth of experience in leadership, resilience, and combative training.
From operational deployments in Bosnia and Afghanistan to developing combative programs for military and civilian use, Randy shares insights on hardening the mind and body for personal protection. Discover how he blends martial arts, firearms training, and psychology to empower people from all walks of life. Tune in for an inspiring conversation with a true warrior dedicated to helping others build confidence and strength.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of And Another Thing podcast. I'm your co-host, Tony Clement. And ah yeah, we're here again. Jodi will be around or not for the next one. and But in the meantime, we've got a great guest with us, Randy Turner.
00:00:39
Speaker
Before we get to Randy, and I do want to read out part of his biography, let me of course thank our presenting sponsor. Again, municipal solutions have come through again. Your project management team for rezonings and development approvals, municipal solutions cuts through the municipal red tape to bring your project to fruition. Just go to
Randy Turner's Military Background
00:01:01
Speaker
municipalsolutions.ca and John mutton and the gang will be there to help you. We also want to thank our terrestrial radio sponsor hunters Bay radio.com every Saturday morning. They ah rebroadcast this and many other wonderful podcasts for you. Just go to the live streaming at hunters Bay radio.com. Let me tell you a little bit about Randy Turner. Now he,
00:01:27
Speaker
did serve our country in military service for 21 years. He completed the first five years with the storied Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and 16 years as an assaulter with the Joint Task Force 2, JTF 2, of course, ah within Canada's Special Operation Forces Command. He saw and and worked with some of the finest battle-tested soldiers around the world. He was employed employed out on eight operational deployments, including Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Lebanon.
00:02:04
Speaker
And um yeah since then, oh he since then
Leadership and Training at Direct Action
00:02:09
Speaker
ah he has ah done a stint ah as a mixed martial arts athlete for 10 years, retiring from competition in 2018. And he was ranked in Canada's top 10, including two different weight categories, bantam weight and flyweight.
00:02:27
Speaker
and became a bantamweight champion in 2012. Now he is the principal at something called direct Direct Action. He'll talk a little bit about that. He's transitioned ah into a leadership role integrating combative training for people of various skill sets and professions. All members of our society, he says, deserve access to training designed to assist with personal protection by hardening the mind and body.
00:02:54
Speaker
Randy Turner, thanks for joining us at and another thing podcast. Awesome. Thanks for having me Tony. You're looking forward to this conversation. I am too, for sure. And I know our audience will too. So tell us,
Elite Forces and Critical Thinking
00:03:05
Speaker
I guess, uh, I don't want to go completely linearly, but obviously your activities with the, the, the joint task force two and some of your other missions, what, you know, tell us what that was like and what you learned from that. Absolutely. Yeah. It was a great, um,
00:03:25
Speaker
over over a decade of my life with JTF2, working with you know some of the some of the you know the the best soldiers, not not only in the world, but definitely in Canada. um you know the The group of guys at that organization, ah true professionals, very humble humble people, and everyone has a very operational mindset. So working there was amongst real real motivated go getters. Um, yeah, it was, it was just a pleasure. I enjoyed every minute of it. Now, was it, uh, obviously it's a little bit self selecting. These are people who are, uh, are conditioned. Uh, they are ah people that can focus people that know how to get things done. Is that, is that part of the lore of it?
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's a good way to put it. um you know Give the guys a task and very little information and they will they will figure it out. They'll figure out the you know the best course of action to do accomplish the mission, but also you know keep everyone safe and use smarts and wit to figure out what's the best course of action. So yeah, it's a it's a good way to put it. And I would say what makes that organization or the people ah Make that organization so unique is there is their ability to critically think and right in multiple different directions to To accomplish whatever the skill or the ah you know the mission that needs to be done based on the skill sets that they have to You know to to create the best ah the best outcome and when we when we say that ah That's ah an elite task force the JTF to we're not just saying that in terms of ah
00:05:10
Speaker
the Canadian context, they're generally recognized in at least amongst our
Evolution of Warfare and Drone Usage
00:05:17
Speaker
allies as ah as an elite force. Is that correct? That is correct. Yeah. It you know it would not be uncommon that we would do, you know, joint operations and missions with some of the organizations that are a little bit more well-known, you know, like SEAL Team 6 is a very well-known organization. We've worked with them. um Delta in the States, we've worked with them.
00:05:38
Speaker
the British SAS, the Australian SAS, New Zealanders, um some of the Polish soft guys. So some of the, you know, what's referred to as tier one is more of an American term, but that that level of special operations, Kenyam, Canada canada has has an organization that is shoulder to shoulder with some of the best in the world. Now,
00:06:02
Speaker
Clearly, we're in a stage of world history where war is not uncommon, if I can put it that way. ah And it just seems to me, as somebody from the outside looking in perhaps, ah that ah the nature of war seems to be changing rapidly. when When I look at the war in Ukraine, for example, or the war in the Middle East, two examples,
00:06:28
Speaker
uh, the use of drone warfare, the use of, um, uh, sort of using cyber operations, for instance, these seem to be now part of the mainstream of warfare. I mean, you're, you must be a keen observer of how warfare is changing rapidly. What, what's your take on it all? Yeah, I think that's a, that's a great way to put it, you know, and it happened really quickly to, you know, what we were doing in Afghanistan.
00:06:55
Speaker
became very different than what we were doing in Iraq. And in now what we see with what's going on in the Ukraine and Israel, ah israel um things are different for for sure. um What I find really interesting is how quickly things like that have transpired. like i remember I remember our drone program when it was just coming on station maybe ah maybe a decade ago.
00:07:21
Speaker
Right. you know it was It was a relatively new concept for us, but not really in in the global sense. Some of the organizations that we worked with were far ahead of us. um But what's interesting about it was when it was coming when that capability was really becoming polished, how it started to take off and as I was retiring,
00:07:44
Speaker
um you know, it was once upon a time, a handful of guys that were keen and interested in figuring how to operate these drones and what benefits and capabilities it would bring to us. Now, it's it's a full-on program. It's certainly come a long way in a short amount of time. Yeah, i saw I saw the beginnings of it. I did take a trip as industry minister to Afghanistan, to Kandahar,
00:08:08
Speaker
and some of the forward operating bases around around there in the Panjwai District, for example. And I noticed our forces were starting to use drones to detect um the enemy-placing roadside bombs, for instance, so that so that that could be detected and and neutralized. So it was just starting at that. is is Does that timeline make sense to you in your recollection of Afghanistan?
00:08:37
Speaker
That's right. Yeah. So the tail end of Afghanistan in 2011, 2012,
Self-Defense and Training Critique
00:08:41
Speaker
um, it was not uncommon that, you know, small, uh, like personally operated drones would be, would be utilized. Um, you know, and and you saw it, it just wasn't as common on what it is now. And, and now not only the drone, different countries, but their drone programs, but then counter drone programs as well. So.
00:09:03
Speaker
it's um that's It's definitely changed not only the landscape of what a combat zone would look like, but also how maneuver elements get from point A to point B has, you know, tactics have changed and had to be adopted as well. So one of the things that you sort of derive from those those experiences was ah an interest in and a specialty in combat training. That's right. So tell us a little bit about that evolution from being in military service and then transitioning out and and specializing in that? Yeah, I think, well, not I think. I'm confident that the reason that I'm so passionate about combative self-defense is the amount of time that we spent in in Afghanistan, and i'll and I'll speak mostly about Afghanistan because that's where my you know my maturity as a soldier and as a man really um was really developed. Right.
00:09:58
Speaker
and you know What sometimes gets misunderstood you know based on Hollywood and movies and video games is the amount of gunfire that that actually transpires versus the amount of times that you know we go hands-on with somebody or we're able to clandestinely infiltrate a certain area to get our hands on people who have evil intentions.
00:10:23
Speaker
the the numbers speak for themselves. And the reason that I say that, and the reason I became so passionate about combative self-defenses, yes, it's important um to understand how and when to use a firearm, but there's a higher probable chance that we're going to go hands on before we're actually going to, you know, shoot neutralize somebody. Oh, I see. So like a hand to hand combat is so important that way.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, because i mean some of the situations where, yeah of course, we're armed and there's the potential that the enemy is armed too, but um but that's still going to be an element of of reality. But what I noticed was um when you do your job really well,
00:11:02
Speaker
there ought to be not a shot fired if we're going after somebody or a group of people that have evil intentions to do evil things to good people. If we're doing our job well, then we're you know collecting the right type of intelligence to execute on a target. um you know if it If it goes well, there won't there won't be a shot fired. So I think sometimes the You know, the, the dramatification or the the sexiness of the thought of what, you know, some movies portray isn't always that accurate. Right. So, so that leads to the conclusion that combat training is very important. Is that what you're saying? A hundred percent. Very important. It's, um, yeah, it's one of those things where if we're not going to use our, our firearm to neutralize the threat, but we're going to get our hands, you know, on somebody that maybe does not want to be captured or does. worry
00:11:56
Speaker
but up a fight, um you know, and for whatever reason, like maybe they're motivated to, to go out on their sword and and fight to, you know, a death. And in some cases, maybe they're, they're willing to try their hand at, you know, accepting capture with a thought that maybe they'll get released. So it's important. The way I look at it is we can only gain or collect information from somebody who was able to speak. So if we want to continue to, you know,
00:12:26
Speaker
collect information for follow on operations, then it's probably wise that this person can actually talk and give us some information. So how does that change your sort of philosophy of combat training? Is there, is there something that is different in how you train given that reality on the ground? Um, I would say it would be depending on the environment and depending on the, the operational context, when we're training or preparing for,
00:12:55
Speaker
bo swear There are multiple areas that we need to polish and and be sharp with, you know, some of that might be mechanisms to get us to the job. So, you know, an insert method or how are we going to infiltrate the target set? That's ah that's a key component of training. And then when you break it down.
00:13:15
Speaker
That's just to get us to the job. Once we get the job, you know we need to be able to make wise decisions very quickly, whether or not that's a shoot, no shoot scenario, or whether or not that's to close distance quickly or or the opposite. Maybe it's wiser to be stealthful and maybe dressed in um you know common attire that would be more you know plain clothes or clandestine type of operation. So the flexibility of the operator and the understanding of the the atmosphere in which they're working can be very fluid and you know things can change very quickly. Do you think that ah um modern militaries are training properly for these kinds of situations? I can't speak to um other foreign nations. I do have buddies in the States that share some stories and I do have some buddies you know other in other areas.
00:14:11
Speaker
you know in the UK, Australia, and and whatnot. I can't speak too much based on what they're doing, but I am integrated quite heavily with our own Canadian Armed Forces, and I can say that we are, generally speaking, um ill-equipped and improperly trained, in my opinion. Right, right. Well, you're it's not only your opinion, Randy. yeah I don't want you to think you're alone in that opinion. That seems to be the generally a held opinion of those in the know and those who are commenting outside the know. So what do we have to do in your opinion to get better training and ah better materiel, et cetera, for our ah wonderfully but brave ah troops?
00:14:59
Speaker
Oh, that's ah that's a big question. there's i know I know. There's a lot. there's Obviously, there's a funding piece. you Troops need better equipment, more modernized equipment for sure. There's a funding piece there. But there's also a political will piece that sometimes people kind of the generally speak and don't want to talk about. They don't want to... They kind of dance around it. I call it water cooler conversations where Guys will speak freely around the water cooler, but then when somebody of influence is in earshot, then, you know, generally speaking the conversation changes. And I think that's a problem. The ones that are making decisions need to be aware of the ramifications of those decisions and how it affects the the greater good of what the Canadian Armed Forces represent and stand for. So I think, you know, a little bit of this funding on equipment, but also it's drawing the right people and it's recruiting the right personnel for for the right job.
00:15:52
Speaker
um That the way things are have gone over the last few years that needs to change the pendulum definitely has swung to the much softer side And I'm I'm not convinced that that's a wise thing for the K&R forces which you know there once upon a time there was no commercials on TV or or you know some social out with that where you know young men and and women who know viewed some of these advertisements, they would be motivated. now Now it's not so much, you know, you don't see it a lot. And when you do, it's it's very soft and it's it's almost the opposite of anything that has to do with fighting and conflict or violence. Right. They're kind of downplaying the fact that there there is a kinetic, yeah you know, military aspect to this. i I agree with you on that. And I think though, let me just put my point of view out there in terms of
00:16:48
Speaker
I think the pendulum is starting to swing back a little bit in terms of, but by by that I mean the public perception and the public desire. We live in a world that has a lot of adversaries and enemies who want to destroy our country and our way of life. I'm by putting it bluntly like that. and And I think that when I talk to people about this, they're starting to get the message that business as usual when it comes to our military procurement and, uh, recruitment and, uh, training and material, it's not going to cut it. And the, the, I think people are realizing that we are not pulling our weight within the NATO Alliance or, or other Alliance bodies. So I don't know. Do you get that sense from talking to people too?
00:17:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, 100% for sure. Um, you know, the, the hardware for sure is important, you know, the equipment for, for the troops to do their job, but it's the software that operates that piece of equipment. So right it's the human that is going to, you know, execute that piece of equipment to do the job, to, to be effective. And what I think.
00:18:08
Speaker
Some people in Canada have their, you know, maybe it's by choice. They've got their head in the sand is this stuff is happening right here and on our own soil. This is happening right in inside the borders of Canada.
Canadian Defense Policy Changes
00:18:20
Speaker
And and the reason that I mentioned that is because I believe as a nation, we can be way more proactive with utilizing arcane air forces right here in our own country. And, you know, that's a pretty broad spec, ah broad statement, which I'm aware of, but I also believe in it. Otherwise I wouldn't say it. There are.
00:18:38
Speaker
There are people that are up to no good right here in our own backyard. We're aware of it. whether the policies need to change, whether the domestic capability while enter operaerville ah interoperable capability with our local law enforcement needs to change, something something significantly needs to change before a significant incident happens right here in our own soil. And it would not be uncommon, just based on the history of Canada, that nothing will change until something bad does happen.
00:19:09
Speaker
be a very reactive nation,
Military Training for Civilians
00:19:12
Speaker
right very passive aggressive towards a lot of serious issues. And I think, I don't know what is going to change, but I know bye I believe this needs to change and it needs to change soon. No, no, I think those are very wise words and certainly I agree with you. um Can I just talk about now your current role with ah direct action? That's the name of the company, right? That you directactions.ca a is the the website for our listeners. So tell us about how you apply the training that you used or perfected in the military.
00:19:50
Speaker
And take that to a civilian context. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of good Canadians that are, that are doing really good things. So most of the people, um, I would say 95% of the people that I provided training for who are general public civilians, I've done my best to vet them, uh, find out who they are, what their interests are. Oftentimes before anyone does training with me, um, I request a video.
00:20:21
Speaker
interview essentially is what it is. I want to know a little bit about who they are, what their motivations are, and why they want this type of training. Because I want to be cautious that I'm not arming the wrong people. Yeah, because this is lethal training. Yeah, I mean, some of the stuff that I'm sharing with these folks can do some serious damage if it's not catered and harnessed properly. So the reason that I mentioned that, and I think it's important, is because, you know,
00:20:47
Speaker
It's an imperfect system. People are are good at putting on a facade. They're good at playing a role. So I got to be cautious with reading people well and it also be okay with saying, no, I don't think you're a good fit for the direct action brand. And, you know, it's not about the money. Yes, this is what I do for a living, but I'm not willing to sell my soul for, you know, a couple thousand dollars on ah on a course to give information and training and skills to somebody that's just going to use it for evil.
00:21:16
Speaker
Um, so it is a tough, um, it's a tough thing to, to navigate. Um, but what I've noticed is generally the people that are are working with me, um, and choose to devote the time and money to train with me, they're, they're good people. They're good Canadians that just want to be better prepared. Right. What, what are they, uh, what are they afraid of or what are they concerned about that that drives them to you?
00:21:40
Speaker
um I think people are just aware of what's going on. you know Some government decisions on the firearms ban, for example, that could be a whole new position, but you know people are concerned with you know the motivations, why the government is it' you know really ah attacking attacking you know, law abiding firearms owners and you know, guys are are cautious, concerned and wondering like, what are they doing wrong? Why are they, why are they being told they, they can't have this or they, they're restricted to, you know, this platform or another platform when it comes to firearms. So these folks, they want to know, you know, if, if they have firearms already, they want to know how to use them and and they want to be, oh go it go beyond the regular training for firearms that you get, uh,
00:22:29
Speaker
yeah you know ah to get your PAL, for instance. Correct. They want to know how to use them
Personal Safety Concerns and Self-Defense
00:22:35
Speaker
safely. They want to know how to use them effectively. And then that's just the firearms piece, which is a pretty big piece. um What I think a lot of people are not aware of in Canada, we have a huge gun culture in Canada, huge. We're just really quiet. ah It's very different than the approach that the Americans take. And I'm just using that as an example, because they're our Southern family. They're our Southern brothers that we share a border with.
00:22:57
Speaker
We in Canada have a huge gun culture. They're just guys are generally speaking are a little bit quieter. And that's on the firearm side. There's other folks too. Like I have ah lawyers, doctors, um school teachers who they just want to know how to defend themselves and defend their families a little bit better. I've literally had you know individuals you know do some training with me who have said those words and fighting tears back saying, I don't know if I can even protect my family. If somebody kicks my door in and they want to you know steal our belongings or or do some harm to my wife or kids, I don't know if I have the ability to even you know fight them off. right and I respect that. I respect somebody that wants to arm themselves with the the knowledge, the know-how, the mindset, and the capability to protect themselves and their family. I admire that. so
00:23:46
Speaker
for me to not share that information, I believe would be a detriment to myself and be ashamed because, you know, one day I haven't forbidden, you know, I get hit by a bus. There's a whole bunch of information and knowledge that I could be sharing with people. and And if I'm not on this side of the earth to do so, then, you know, to me, that's a shame. So that's interesting. So it sounds like that people are sort of looking around their city, town, neighborhood and saying, you know, this place is getting a little bit less safe than it used to be or a lot less safe than it used to be.
00:24:16
Speaker
And I need to protect myself and my family. That's, that's what you're telling me. Yes, sir. I agree. Yep. 100%. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So I notice ah from your website that you also blend components of mixed martial arts into the training. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. So while I was serving in the military, I was also fighting professional and mixed martial arts. And I started, I got a little bit late to the game. I started when I was about 28, 29 years old.
00:24:43
Speaker
um I started training in jiu-jitsu as a formal martial art. Um, and then I really gravitated to it. I liked the structure. I liked what it was providing. Um, and I, and I saw an opportunity for it to, to kind of compliment what I was doing for a living. So I started to take training pretty serious and then I added Muay Thai kickboxing and then I added wrestling and those three disciplines, um, really. I, I dedicated time almost five days a week for, you know, almost a decade.
00:25:15
Speaker
To get better at those skills and then while i was fighting you know i was picking times to that i can take a fight in between operational temple or training exercises while at the unit so i didn't fight as much as i wanted to i only fought fifteen professional fights that was for not a lack of interest that was more just timing sure in temple.
00:25:38
Speaker
So now you know I'm no longer in uniform, but as part of a component of what the the business offers, mixed martial arts is is a piece of it. So for guys that are interested in the sports side of of martial arts, I offer that. And then for folks that are interested in more in legitimate real world street defense, I offer for stuff like that as well.
00:26:03
Speaker
And you mentioned as well that you want to provide physical and mental tools to perform optimally. What do you mean by mental tools? Uh, well, let's, let's use the phrase, for example, if I were to say, um, I embrace violence, um, some people will misinterpret what that means. And I'm not saying that I, I supported, but I'm worth it. So the mindset is being able to walk around your neighborhood at night without the worry.
00:26:33
Speaker
that somebody is lurking in the shadows and having the confidence in the mindset to say, you know, generally it's not going to happen. But on that day, should it happen? Are we prepared to do something about it? Right. That's kind of what I mean by the mental strengthening side of what I believe combat, um especially hand to hand combat is very personal. It's up close. um It's in your face. It's emotional. Um, it's, you know, there's obviously physical consequences that are associated to it. So,
00:27:03
Speaker
The mental side is as important, if not more important than the physical capability to actually you know apply a specific technique or for you know principle to ah to a scenario that literally could do some serious damage to you or somebody that you really care about. Do you think that after your training, people have better mental wellness then? Is that part of ah one of the advantages?
00:27:28
Speaker
I do. I do. And you know some of the testimonials that I received from from folks was exactly bad. Literally, people said, thank you. you know I believe you saved my life. And I said, what do you mean? like
Randy Turner's Book and Life Lessons
00:27:42
Speaker
I was struggling. And you know martial arts gave me an outlet. Martial arts gave me structure. Martial arts gave me something to put my my mind to. and you know And for that, I'm grateful. I'm in a better position. so I mean, when somebody opens up like that and and they share, you know, some, some truth and they really expose some vulnerabilities, um, that means a lot for sure. And, uh, young adults, the same thing. Yeah. Young adults, young, young men, um, females, males, ate a mixed mixed bag of backgrounds and, um, experiences. Yeah.
00:28:17
Speaker
you're telling me yeah You were telling me off air, you're writing a book too, or you're intending to write a book. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so in the early beginning stages right now of writing a book, tellingkin just a little bit about my upbringing, I grew up in the East Coast. um you know what What motivated me to join the military? What did that road look like and how did that journey come come to the fruition of what it was? and I'm going to share you know some stories, some lessons learned, some decisions and choices that I made that were optimal and then some decisions and choices that I made that were definitely um not so optimal, but able to learn and and gain experiences from that and then just share that with with folks that might be interested. So a little bit about my upbringing, a little bit about my military career, a little bit about um i my MMA career. you know i'll I'll write a little few stories about some of the some of the good things, some of the bad things operationally. right
00:29:11
Speaker
Um, that's one thing that our organization doesn't do a really good job ah of is ah sharing the good stuff. Some of the guys have done some really, really good stuff and, uh, you know, it doesn't make the front page of the news. Um, movies are not written about it. Folks are not written about it. And I think, um, it just, just my feeling
Conclusion and Acknowledgments
00:29:30
Speaker
it's a, it's a bit of a shame because these guys will do one of the 25 years of a lot of good work and it just, it it kind of gets lost or forgotten. They'll go on to the next chapter of their life. and Some of them are okay with it, and some of them kind of question, was it worth anything? Right on, right on. Well, Randy, I'm glad you're doing that. I'm glad Direct Action is out there. Congratulations on your ability to transition from a very successful military career into this
00:29:59
Speaker
this new career and certainly we wish you well. Thanks for being on the program. I also want to thank our sponsor municipal solutions, municipal solutions.ca is where you can find John mutton and the gang and our terrestrial radio sponsor hunters Bay radio.com. We will do this again in seven days.