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The OUTSIDERS
106 Plays4 months ago
This week on And Another Thing, Tony flies solo and welcomes special guest MP Michelle Rempel Garner. Together, they dive into the current state of the Canadian Federal Government, breaking down the implications of Justin Trudeau's recent announcement. The conversation also explores whether Mark Carney is truly an outsider in Canadian politics. Don’t miss this insightful and unfiltered discussion on the issues shaping Canada’s future.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Acknowledgment
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of And Another Thing podcast. I'm your co-host, Tony Clement. Jodi Jenkins sends his best. He cannot join us tonight, but we've got a great guest and we will get to her.
00:00:34
Speaker
Very shortly, a returning guest as a matter of fact, which is wonderful that we've had so many podcasts that we have returning guests. But first, let's but thank our sponsors. Of course, Municipal Solutions is our presenting sponsor. They are your project management team for rezonings, development approvals, et cetera. Municipal Solutions cuts through the Municipal Red Tape to bring your project to fruition. As always, go to municipalsolutions.ca. They'll be there to help you out. And then we also want to thank our terrestrial radio sponsor, Hunters Bay Radio in Muskoka. Every Saturday morning, ah Hunters Bay Radio has a whole suite of podcasts that they rebroadcast on air, including, and another thing, podcasts. So go to huntersbayradio.com and they will look after you there.
00:01:23
Speaker
Our special guest
Interview with Michelle Rempel Garner Begins
00:01:24
Speaker
today, as I said, is a returning guest. ah Michelle Rempel Garner is joining us. Michelle Rempel Garner is the Member of Parliament, Conservative Member of Parliament. for Calgary Nose Hill, and has, I guess, Michelle, it's your, like um I was gonna say, like you're into your almost, well, second decade, really. I'm into my second decade, yes. Yeah, great. Well, welcome back to the program. Thanks. I was saying saying off air that you were one of our original guests way back at the beginning. In 2019, I'm gonna guess just before COVID. So a lot has happened since then. I think i think we had you on and you talked about your
00:02:03
Speaker
wine sommelier experience as well as political experience. yeah I know a long time ago in a galaxy got far, far away. So thanks for joining us again. Yeah, it's great to have you. It's great to be here with you tonight. So I
Political Developments and Trudeau's Resignation
00:02:17
Speaker
guess, obviously, you came to mind because ah you have been writing about the goings on ah in Ottawa, in official Ottawa, I should say. And I'd love to get, let's just have you know keep it open-ended for the start. to tell us Tell us what you are thinking about what's happened over the last couple of weeks, the then the future resignation of Justin Trudeau, the liberal leadership, the lack of an election, the pro-rogation. Just hit me up on all of that stuff. Well, Tony, you know you you and I serve together.
00:02:53
Speaker
in the House of Commons. We serve together in cabinet. And what I've been thinking about is if I went, like today, 2025 me, you know, we talk about time passing, went back in time and like burst into one of those cabinet meetings to tell us from back then, like what was happening. I think like I'd be locked up.
00:03:19
Speaker
Um, and, and, and I say that half ingest, but also like, like it's so important to start to answer your question with just the observation of without any hyperbole, our country is in a moment of deep national crisis. Um, it is a crisis. I'm glad you said that because I think it is important for people to understand that we, we are in a a very.
00:03:46
Speaker
poor situation, not only internally, but externally. I think that's your point. Absolutely. By a lot of different measures. so And these are personal crises. like this isn't These aren't sort of esoteric, four far-flung concepts for people. you know You and I both know there are people in our orbit, certainly in my constituency. A lot of people can't afford homes, can't afford groceries.
00:04:13
Speaker
ah losing their jobs, massive crime waves, you know, car thefts, and then you start layering on top of that all of these other major challenges like geopolitical challenges, um you know, a lot of geopolitical instability, um our relationship with the US, the atrophy of our military, you start going through all these things and Really, this is, you know and and I say this because it's true, this is the result of nine years of liberal government and very poor decisions. So you know to to to to to answer your question, what am I thinking about? what's why Why do all of these things, Trudeau's resignation, prerogation, why do all these matter? These things matter right now. Well, it's because like everything's not okay and Trudeau has taken
00:05:07
Speaker
but But by leaving when he did, he first of all, I think he should have left left after, lose but as essentially not getting his majority in the 2021 election. Let's park that. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, so so now the liberals are in a leadership race. Parliament is shuttered. um And they're trying to blame, you know, like just today, you know, i'm I'm looking at news coverage just before I jumped on to record with you here.
00:05:34
Speaker
You know, the the the liberals are trying to blame some of the premiers for responding to the threat of American terrorists when it's like, you know what? um Where are you? Oh, right. Right. You're in the process, the prolonged process of quitting and you shut down Parliament. So I just, um you know, if you if you want it, we can get into some of the details on what's happening, what I think is going to happen next. But that's
Liberal Leadership Race and Election Discussion
00:06:00
Speaker
the key takeaway.
00:06:02
Speaker
that I want listeners to to really understand is like, this is no joke, but the people who are supposed to be providing leadership at this point in time are treating it like it. And it and it really scares scares the hell out of me.
00:06:17
Speaker
It is, I'm glad to hear you say that because this is not just about politics as usual. Yeah, you know, the the liberal leader is is going and there's going to be a new liberal leader who will be prime minister for a second and a half or whatever it is, or or six or seven months, who knows. ah But um the the fact is we have a major crisis And a lot of it, if I can just say this, ah yes, it's it's coming to a head now, but a lot of the reason why we are weak in our negotiating position is because of the decisions that have been made over the last nine years. Defense, the economy, these are the things where the the border, these are the things where if we had ah better policies from a government, ah they they wouldn't be irritants.
00:07:14
Speaker
so so So you're absolutely right. um you know Conservative party leader, Pierre Poliev, he's made that point um many times over the last month, which is it shouldn't have taken a change in the Oval Office, a Donald Trump victory.
00:07:32
Speaker
for the Canadian Liberal government to sort of wake up and go like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have let the military atrophy to this point or hmm, maybe we've got a problem with the border or hmm, maybe the immigration system is broken, right? These are all things that that the the government should have been seized with anyways. But I think that, you know, the sort of sub point that that's percolating under, under that is We're now like the the the liberals have spent so much money, like like deficit spending, money we don't have. They've added to the debt so much that we're now kind of as a country teetering on a precipice, right? We don't have that same level of resiliency, financial resiliency within the federal coffers that we did, you know, back when we were serving together in the house. And that that brittleness is is a big factor in
00:08:28
Speaker
considering how we respond to some of the challenges that the nation's facing. So it's a dumpster fire, right? And and that's that's essentially like, now I'll say this, a dumpster fire can be put out and and messes can be cleaned up. We can't get on with that business though until we have a federal election or at least until parliament resumes, right? so so so So here we are.
00:08:54
Speaker
So here we are, Parliament isn't there, so the the Tribune of the people isn't meeting. ah And, ah you know, Trudeau, and it it it appears, was trying to even get a more prolonged ah lifeline for his government behind the scenes. He was talking to the bloc, he was talking to the NDP, trying to trying to gerrymander or MacGyver some sort of deal. ah And that didn't work.
00:09:26
Speaker
So ah tell us, tell us what you would like. I think you've, you've already said it, but just tell us what you would like to see happen and tell us what you think will actually happen. Well, obviously what it what we need, the country needs is, it is a federal general election. And why do we need that? Because, you know, this is a lame duck government that, you know, it needs, it needs to be tested.
00:09:54
Speaker
in the Canadian public in a general election. And that needs to happen as soon as possible so that we can restore stability and in government for not just you know for industry or for diplomatic negotiations, but so that there's certainty for the you know people who are listening to this podcast and and and trying to figure out how they're going to pay their rent, that there's a clear line of sight on some policies. Now, what is going to happen?
00:10:21
Speaker
um Can I give you kind of a hot take on the NDP potentially voting down the government or not in March? Yes, please. Yes, please. So, you know, Tony, everybody everybody's giving this take that like they're almost approaching a election at the end of March. Like it's ah it's a foregone conclusion. It's a certainty. And I'm not so convinced. um I think that the NDP don't even need like the deal sweetened to prop up the liberal government into the future. Like, let's say to a fall election, I think they just need some sort of minimal excuse. And some of the communications that like, you know, very beleaguered and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh have been putting out in the last couple of days, it's it's kind of like, it feels like they're pre positioning a narrative that allows them to support
00:11:17
Speaker
the liberals at the end of March. And there's a lot of reasons for them to do this. I mean, you and I both know that ah there's not a lot of people except for maybe, you know, ah ah former leader who's now passed away, Jack Layton, in the and NDP that ever took forming government seriously. So they sort of see this as the most influence that they're going to have on a government. um they They want to prolong that, I think, for some weird reason. They shouldn't be allowed to, but I digress.
00:11:47
Speaker
There's some of the people in their caucus. um I think that therere they're looking to bump up their pension accruals, the ones that are either retiring or not re-offering or whatever. There's all of these litanies of reason. and I mean, and I'll close with a very powerful one. Singh knows that the the the gig is up for Singh, literally, after this election, right? This will be his third election. He's lost. If he loses, I hope he loses.
00:12:12
Speaker
um So I think that they're just, i'm not so so I'm not even sure that we're going to have an election at the end of March is what I'm saying. and and that' so you Sorry. Yeah. yeah So Singh did seemingly seemingly ah say something before all this brood with Trudeau resigning, saying he said to to the effect that regardless of who the next leader is, the NDP are going to have a motion of nonconfidence before the sitting is done. So you're saying he's going to eat his words on that. Well, he's already done that, right? So so last August, you'll remember he came out, and you know, oh, we're we're ripping up our agreement with the Liberals or ripping it up.
00:12:59
Speaker
And then they voted to prop the government up multiple times this fall, multiple times, even voting against a motion of non-confidence that used the NDP's own words and statements verbatim. So I just, I i could see, I absolutely see a universe. like Like could there be a spring election? Absolutely. But is there a universe where there isn't and the NDP prop up this failed liberal government? Yeah.
00:13:27
Speaker
And I think that that's, you know, my appeal to people is regardless of how people vote, we need stability in the country. And like this, this government is, has lost its moral authority to govern. Well, and then the credit credibility and legitimacy. And exactly need they need whoever is the government needs a mandate from the people. That is a much better way of sussing the thought out that I was trying to try to get out there. You're absolutely right. like like From where you sit, like and from what you hear, like
Comparing Political Figures: Carney vs. Poliev
00:14:06
Speaker
it seems to me that is such an important piece that's that's missing in Canadian federal leadership right now is that mandate.
00:14:12
Speaker
like Is that something you're hearing a lot in your circle too? Because I know you talk to a lot of people, Tom. Yeah, I think people generally are fed up with the nonsense and the shenanigans of the Liberal Party and and Justin Trudeau.
00:14:26
Speaker
ah and It'll be interesting to see how that plays out with the next liberal leader. who i am You don't have to say anything, but I am 100% convinced it's going to be Mark Carney. I think the the fix is in. ah Team Trudeau has gone 100% to Carney. and Interesting. and they They not only have their acolytes in in the liberal caucus, and but they they control the liberal machine. Sure. so
00:14:56
Speaker
so Somehow the thumb is on the scale, Michelle. I'm saying this, you don't have to say it. The thumb is on the scale. No, I'll jump in. Yeah, they want courage. I see it too. Yeah. And they don't want Freeland. We know that too. I think this is public knowledge. I mean, you're just putting together a string of articles and evidence that's out there, right? You've got former Trudeau advisor, Jerry Butz,
00:15:26
Speaker
I think he's he's either running the campaign or is very senior in the campaign. I'm not i'm not sure, but he's definitely involved. Then you've got ah Brian Lilly, who a Toronto Sun columnist reporter, who his sources told him that Katie Telford was making calls on behalf of Carney. You've got Tom Pittfield, the liberal senior pollster who had to recuse himself because it was reported he was involved in the Carney campaign.
00:15:54
Speaker
um and And then you know you go through all of the like the you know five plus years longer than that of the liberals publicly admitting that Carney was the senior economic advisor. So like i yeah, like i'll I'll back you up on that. like They want the status quo of Justin Trudeau wants Mark Carney as the continuity candidate. Right. so And that was you did have we should say to our audience, you've got a lovely sub stack. Thanks. You have been doing for quite a while now. And you just had an article in the last couple of days talking about refuting the the narrative of Mr. Carney and his team that he's the outsider candidate. And your your point. And I've made the same point as he's the ultimate insider.
00:16:47
Speaker
yeah course he is. I mean, the the line that I used, you know, for for for the headline of this was, you know, he he's no outsider. he He owns the club, man. He owns club yeah that he owns the club, right? And, yeah and I don't like that positioning was just preposterous. But I think the key thing like just kind of backing up is that you're you're absolutely right, Tony, this this is Mark Carney, if he's coronated, per your suggestion, because he's the continuity candidate for Team Trudeau. yeah They ask like that that. They don't. that There's no legitimacy there in my eyes. That's why we need a federal general election. And it's not just my eyes. It's going to be the eyes of the Canadian yeah people. Businesses are looking to trying to decide whether or not they're going to invest and frankly, in our diplomatic relations as well, too. Right. So we need a general election for that that continuity.
00:17:44
Speaker
whether or not we're gonna get one. you know I guess it depends on um on how much how how the NDP are feeling that day. And I really hope people put pressure on the NDP to do the right thing, finally. That would be helpful and and to to live up to their their declared intent. I think that's part of it too. So yes, that that would be helpful. I think we if we, and look, we're going up against an administration ah in the U.S., it has an agenda, ah and ah ah we we are sort of on the front line on some of their issues, i.e. defense, border, those kinds of things. So ah we need we need a strong interlocutor. ah You know better than most that but if if we're if we show signs of weakness, as ah as a nation I'm talking, and as a government, ah then
00:18:40
Speaker
Donald Trump, he'll exploit it. That's what he does. And and it's not just Donald Trump. that's that's that You could say the same about John F. Kennedy and and John Diefenbaker. You could say the same about Pierre-Elia Trudeau ah and and ah Ronald Reagan. you know these are These are things that that are true ah in the in the Canada-U.S. relations history book since 1867 and indeed before. So what I'm saying is, yes, let's get ah a a leader and a prime minister with a mandate. And we talked about Mark Carney and how ah he is trying to position himself as the outsider. Really, he's the insider. I guess my next question to you is, what what how is
00:19:33
Speaker
Pierre Polyem and team Pierre, you're on team Pierre obviously as a member of the caucus. How do you want to communicate to the people leading up to an election which could be a few weeks away, a few months away? what's What's on your mind about how you want to have that discussion with the Canadian public? Well, I think for starters,
00:19:57
Speaker
um you know, Pierre Poliev has really emerged as a disciplined, common sense voice for Canadians who have been frustrated for a long time and feeling like the government wasn't listening to them and said they were telling them in very arrogant, you know, condescending tones, how they should be or how life is, right? And Pierre's offered this, uh,
00:20:28
Speaker
you know very mature, very relatable, and I use the word relatable in that it's in for his communication is it directly informed from what he hears. ah in in you know he's He's on the ground everywhere, right? like He's just you know constantly talking to people.
00:20:53
Speaker
He's kind of emerged as this like, okay, like this breath of fresh air for a lot of Canadians. um and And liberals will hate to hear that, but it's true, right? Because he's providing this like, he he's saying the thing, he's talking about the things that need to be fixed, and then he's offering common sense solutions, right? So he you know yeah he's he's got this great, um
00:21:19
Speaker
speech right now ah that that he he's given a couple of times to our caucus talking about the Canadian promise, right? Right, right. I've heard him do that. Yeah. And it's it's so powerful.
00:21:32
Speaker
it's and it's you know the canadian it's says i'm i'm not I'm obviously not going to do it as well. He's done it, but essentially he's saying that the Canadian promise used to be that if you worked hard, it didn't matter who you were, where you were from,
00:21:48
Speaker
you could afford a house, have a family, and have a decent life and get ahead, right? That's the Canadian promise. you know And he'll talk about freedoms, et cetera, as well. But like that really is the promise of Canada. And when you break down how broken that's been, you know be it crime, housing unaffordability, food unaffordability, job losses, economic instability,
00:22:13
Speaker
divisiveness and in you know ah between Canadians from the federal liberal government. you know People are like, yes, yes, finally somebody's saying that it's not okay and that there needs to be a change and we need to get back to that promise.
00:22:29
Speaker
So that's how he's been communicating. But again, you know, he's been giving, you know, there, there are liberals who hate the fact that he has so clearly articulated four key priorities under that restoration of Canada's province, right? Acts attacks, build the home, stop the crime, fix the budget. People hate, like and by people, I mean, liberals, capital out liberals hate that he has so clearly articulated those priorities.
00:22:57
Speaker
because they cut to the heart, they cut through all of the failures of the federal liberal government and get into people's homes and people are like, yes, this is what I want. This is what I need. This is what we want our government doing. Not all the rest of this you know nonsense that has bankrupted the country in so many different ways. So in terms of like just communication style, I think what he has been so powerfully been able to do is really just capture so succinctly what tens of millions of Canadians are experiencing and feeling, say it and then clearly communicate authentically that that plan to fix things. And I, you know, a lot of people will say, you know, Tony, that, oh, you know,
00:23:47
Speaker
Pierre, they'll dismiss his popularity. Liberals will try to dismiss his popularity. Oh, it's just because Justin Trudeau is unpopular. No, Pierre Poliam is legitimately popular for all the reasons that I just said. so and it's been It's been really you know stunning to watch and the communications on that have have gone well and will continue to go well.
00:24:07
Speaker
Well, he intuitively ah you're quite right. First of all, he's a great communicator, possibly the greatest conservative communicator in the country and a couple of generations. I say that without hesitation. But you're right. He's he does have his finger on that pulse. And I think that's going to be very interesting because I think you're right. I think there there there is a counter narrative in the legacy media and the liberal elites of our country that now that just now that we force Justin Trudeau out, everything's going to be fine. And Mark Carney is that they always have this messiah complex with their leaders. you know they ah They always want somebody that somehow has a pedigree ah that they're impressed with and therefore the rest of the country should be impressed with. so i think you know Look, I predict in the future you're predicting it, but I don't think that's going to wash
00:24:59
Speaker
very well because I think people want some leader who is authentic and who actually understands what they're going through and and and there and then the policies kind of roll out as a result of that. And I'm not sure that Mr. Carney is going to be the the the great solution for that for the for the Liberal Party. But that's going to be, I think, pretty apparent fairly soon. I agree with you.
00:25:28
Speaker
And I would just add that maybe it I'll add this. I've been on a ah couple of media hits in the last few days where I've had either a host or a reporter or whatever. Just, just fundamentally say like, well, the next election is not going to be as Pierre Poliev says, a carbon tax election. There's no possible way it's going to be about insert niche issue that like the press gallery is obsessed with or this or that, right? And you know that's not to say that there aren't other policy issues that are of of big concern right now. There are. Obviously, we have multiple national crises happening. But the reason why like I disagree with that premise that
00:26:16
Speaker
when Pierre says this is a carbon tax election or this is an election about building homes or crime, people are done with like be sort of like elitist, esoteric narratives about grand public policy, which has largely failed and not bringing it home to addressing the challenges that the average Canadians are facing. And like, so so like for me, what I hear, I don't, I don't get messages in my inbox about,
00:26:44
Speaker
insert esoteric issue here. I get messages in inbox of my inbox on, I can't afford food. I can't afford my house. Um, my car got stolen. So like, I think that, you know, pay peers message discipline. It it it is going to get there. And then again, your contrast with the liberals and Mark Carney, like could not be more apt. He had this, I don't know if you saw it. There was this, um,
00:27:07
Speaker
op-ed that he put in the globe, I think it was last week, maybe two weeks. Yeah, like couple weeks ago, it was pretty lame. Yeah, it was so um like tone deaf isn't even the right thing. It was almost like it had this flavor of like, Oh, I'm bestowing my buzzword laden wisdom on you Canadians. There was nothing at zero in there on even just acknowledging this the struggles that Canadians are going through in their house right now are their households right now. So yeah, I'm with you. I think that that is just like an Achilles heel that the Liberals have. that has well as Frankly, it's why they they've continued down this garden path that's taken our country to this point. right Their Achilles heel is their inability to listen to the average Canadian voter
00:28:02
Speaker
and respond with public policy that completely reverses course from all of the damage, the the damaging policies, the economic vandalism, as as Pierre says, policies that they've inflicted on the country over the last 10 years.
Concluding Remarks and Future Prospects
00:28:19
Speaker
ah but you know what I'll give you one example. I was ah on my social media feed, a ah liberal, certainly an anti-conservative that that that fall I follow.
00:28:29
Speaker
just to see what the other guys are saying, had a split screen, one picture of Mark Carney, picture of Pierre Poliev, and it said, one was one is the governor of the Bank of Canada, and the other one is the governor of Stitsville. And you know his point was that he was going to go with the governor of the Bank of Canada. And I looked at that and I thought, I'd rather have the governor of Stitsville, actually.
00:28:53
Speaker
that's like that's That's not a selling card for me, that that he was part of this deconstruction of our monet monetary policy. You know what I mean? There are tens of millions of Canadians who are so tired of being condescended and talked down to by elites, who can't even bring themselves to recognize the struggles that they're going through. like li like and And I'm not making this up. i mean like And you know this. Any of their question period question ah answers answers in quotation. Any of these liberals' interaction with any media, their social media posts, their policies, ah everything they say is is a a direct refusal
00:29:38
Speaker
to listen to the concerns of people in Stitsville or in Calgary in my writing or anywhere in this country, right? So yeah, I just don't think that like this is a moment for elite out of touch politicians who have a history of only influencing public policy when it's to benefit the shareholders of their company. That's right.
00:30:07
Speaker
or whatever as really Mark Carney, that that's what his CV says, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I think it's a it's a fair point. And this is going to continue. Obviously, we're in a period where things were kind of slow for a while on Parliament Hill. Now they're really speeding up. I'm sure you feel that you probably got that rush of adrenaline as well, right? You know,
00:30:34
Speaker
I have never seen something like this. yes i you You know, you have a long history of public service, Tony, and you kind of get to a point where you're like, okay, I kind of, you know, I have, speed isn't even the right word for it. It's not like, it's just,
00:30:53
Speaker
um
00:30:56
Speaker
the liberals have put us in a place where, a I'm just so worried about the country. you know I don't want to sound so pessimistic. the these the The problem is everything that we've talked about tonight, this like vent session, these are solvable problems. Canada is is is a G7 country. Its its strength is in its people, in in our democratic institutions.
00:31:21
Speaker
the freedoms they enjoy, our natural resources. whatever We have a lot of stuff going for us. We just have to have a federal government that allows those things to actually go for us and so they instead of preventing it from happening. And I am confident that if we have a federal election um and and and, you know, God willing, the Canadian public gives Pierre Poliev a mandate as prime minister of Canada that that that those can that that those issues can be addressed and will be addressed rapidly. But yeah, like, who bring it on. You're saying it's too it's it's it's too fast. It's too slow. We need an election. No, hey Tony. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, that that message is is ringing out from this podcast. That's for sure. So
00:32:07
Speaker
ah Michelle Rumpelgarner, thanks so much for taking a little bit of time with us again, at least four and a half years from the last time you've been on the program. So we really do appreciate you giving us a sense of what's going on in Ottawa and what's going on in Calgary, Nose Hill, what's going on throughout the country. We really do appreciate it. And thanks to you and Jodi for having a really great podcast too for all the work you put into it.
00:32:32
Speaker
Well, it's ah it's a labor of love. And ah as Jodi would say if he were here, those Bentleys don't pay for themselves. So I'm think i'm going to thank our sponsor once again, Municipal Solutions. Go to municipalsolutions.ca for all of your municipal rezonings or development approvals. And again, thanks to our terrestrial radio sponsor, huntersbayradio.com. You get a revisit for this and many other wonderful podcasts every Saturday morning. We will see you again in seven days.