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What I Learned When I Burned Out in Ministry: An Interview with Amy Stopher
126 Plays1 month ago
Thanks for listening to Season 1, Episode 3 of The After Dinner Mint, a podcast of Stories I’d Tell You at Dinner. Thanks for sharing your day with us!
We are interviewing all of our regular contributors in Season 1 of the podcast. Today’s guest is Amy Stopher.
In today’s episode, we explore:
- The joys of gardening and sneaky walks with secateurs.
- Reading the Bible and doing life with other women and how to get this happening in your life, without being weird
- Amy’s experiences with burnout in ministry, what she learned about God, and what helped her heal.
About Amy:
Amy grew up by the beach, the third of four sisters, and first learned the gospel from her parents. She taught high school students Politics and English, before studying Theology at Trinity Theological College in Perth, WA. Now Amy serves on the ministry team at Providence City, and delights in seeing women grow in their confidence to teach God’s word. Amy loves gardening, cooking for people and eating with them, and early mornings at the beach. She lives with her dog, Billie. You can find more of her work on Substack.
Check out the show notes.
Want honest stories in your inbox from Christian women in Western Australia on Wednesdays? Sign up to our newsletter, Stories I'd Tell You at Dinner ❤️
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Transcript
Introduction to 'After Dinner Minute'
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to the After Dinner Minute, the podcast stories I tell you at dinner. We are Christian women in Western Australia sharing honest stories with other women. I'm your host, Bec, and if you like what you hear, please subscribe to our weekly newsletter for honest stories in your inbox on Wednesdays.
Guest Introduction: Amy Stouffer
00:00:25
Speaker
Today's guest is Amy Stouffer, who's also one of our regular writers. Hi, Amy. Hey Zach, nice to see Good to
Amy's Work and Ministry Involvement
00:00:34
Speaker
see you. So tell us, Amy, what does a typical week look like for you? What things make up your week?
00:00:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I work full-time, so that probably takes up the biggest chunk of my week. The ministry team at Providence City, which is a church kind of close to the centre of Perth.
00:00:52
Speaker
And so on Sunday, hey that's kind of the start of my week. We've got four congregations at Providence, so and don't go. but Sunday is like a big day. And then Monday to Thursday, I'm in the office meeting with other staff, meeting with people from the church, planning and preparing, kind of thing.
Leisure and Gardening Discussion
00:01:14
Speaker
And then, yeah Friday, Saturday are my days off and I love to, like, spend time with friends and family or garden or go to the beach, hang out with my dog, that kind of thing.
00:01:25
Speaker
That's lovely. What's in your garden at the moment? I actually have figs ripening on my fig tree, but they're itty bitty. My figs are so small.
00:01:36
Speaker
I can't work out why. they're They're like perfect. They're juicy and lovely. They're just like I'm like, I don't know. Is that a variety thing or is it just like a water fertiliser thing? So I asked my neighbour who I thought might know and she's like, don't know.
00:01:55
Speaker
So we'll see. We'll see. See, I have figs, but like, and, you know, they're growing and they look to be decent sized, they're green. And then small children come along and pick them and throw them away. They don't even eat them all.
00:02:09
Speaker
Oh, that's so sad. So angry. That is so sad. I'd be really cross. The other thing that's in my garden at the moment, but that's not ready yet. This is the other thing I'm really excited about is I have three years growing.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I, like, this year I've got into flowers, flow planting flowers. Yeah, so I had heaps of ranunculus in last spring, but now it's dahlias. So sadly, only, like, half the tubers I planted actually produced a plant, but I've got a bunch.
00:02:43
Speaker
So they're, I don't know, I felt like I planted them early, but they're still not flowering yet. But I'm excited about flowers. They're so fiddly. i I made Zach plant me. So i was like, I can't say that it's truly mine, but I made Zach plant me. Perfect.
00:02:58
Speaker
That's what I made. I made him plant me Proteas and Geraldton Wax because i was like, lovely I want to have a cut flower garden. I want to make bouquets and then steal like eucalyptus leaves.
00:03:10
Speaker
still want to come to neighbor. they They're not aware of it.
00:03:15
Speaker
They're good option though because they're not ah like they're rejuvenating plants rather than things that you cut and then they're gone. Yes, and they're like they're very cheap because once you own the plant, like they're so expensive if you buy them.
00:03:29
Speaker
Yes, totally. yeah Yeah. I do sometimes go for a walk with my secateurs in my pocket to like a verge nearby. It's not anyone's house. It's just like the main road where there's this massive joltomax bush and it'll just like see. but few things like This is just a verge plant. I'm sure this is fun.
00:03:49
Speaker
It's communal. It's a communal bush. Yeah. Yeah, that's
Favorite Books and Podcasts
00:03:52
Speaker
how I feel about it. Yeah. I also do that to my park. I'm like, this is a good bush. yeah I would not do it in a national park. I'm just putting it out there. wouldn't do it in a reserve.
00:04:05
Speaker
No. How about you to a veg? Yeah, I was like, the council runs my local park. It's fine. I'm like, they've got to chase me down after this episode. Like, how dare you take secondaires to the park?
00:04:19
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. So, Ames, tell me, what is your favourite book, TV show or, like, podcast recently? Oh, can talk about two, ah book and a podcast?
00:04:33
Speaker
Okay. My favourite book is... is, well, my favourite book from last year is a book called Tom Lake by Anne Patchett. My only disclaimer is I have a terrible memory and so I really enjoyed it but now can't remember if there was anything in it that was dodgy.
00:04:50
Speaker
So, like, I don't think there was. i don't think there was. Like, tune out the dodginess, nothing to do with me. It's fine. Yeah, that's right. I think I don't tend to like books like that. So, anyway, but I'm pretty sure. Anyway, it's just this lovely story Kind of told from the perspective of one woman, but jumping back and forth from kind of the time she was a young adult and kind of emerging into the world, I guess, as an adult, and then jumping kind of forward to the time when her own daughters are that age and just kind of seeing the thread that runs between them of place and relationship and that kind of thing.
00:05:28
Speaker
So it's just a really beautiful story. Yeah, I really, like Ann Patchett, but some of her novels I have been like, oh, that's a bit strange. Like she's got some interesting kind of premises for her books. This was like really just beautiful and lovely. Okay, I hear that because like I tried to pick up an Ann Patchett. Maybe it was like the Dutch house.
00:05:48
Speaker
I don't even know. I just, I read a bit and then I just lost interest. um But the one you're saying sounds really nice. It sounds a bit like Pachinko. Oh, which is like. haven't read that.
00:06:00
Speaker
Oh, it's really good. It's like three generations of this Korean family in Japan and, like, the Japanese, like, really like the Koreans and they run all, like, the gambling parlours, which are the, which is pachinko.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, really great. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking for a book to buy for a plane trip. So maybe I'll see if that's, you know, in the airport bookshop. Buy that one. Maybe. Tell me what it's happening.
00:06:24
Speaker
It's a podcast. So my favourite podcast of all time. This is kind of a bit dated, but they recently put out a new episode. Don't care. What's got it front mind. So there's this podcast called Home Cooking.
00:06:36
Speaker
And it's like a bit of a pun because it's, you know, about home cooks, like what can you cook for your family, for your friends. But it was originally released at the start of the pandemic and it was just four episodes and it was like we're all at home and so were let's cook. What are we cooking?
00:06:53
Speaker
And it the thing that love about it the most is it's these two friends that A guy called Rishi Hewe, who's like a podcaster. So he he's behind West Wing Weekly and Song Exploder and he's very he's a great podcaster.
00:07:10
Speaker
And then he's friends with the one called Samin Nostrat, who wrote the book Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat or whatever. water are those words I love that book. I love it Yes. And the thing that actually makes the podcast amazing is their friendship because Samim fantastic laugh, like the best laugh, and Rishi can make her laugh like on command.
00:07:29
Speaker
And so the thing i you learn you get to enjoy is their friendship. And over episodes, and the thing they do is they get people to send in voice notes And the voice note's like, hey, you know, I panic bought three kilos of lentils.
00:07:47
Speaker
What am I going to do? It's Samin kind of helping you work out, here are all the different ways that you can cook lentils. That's delicious. And you can do it without going to the grocery store.
00:08:00
Speaker
That's so great. I have no idea what to do with even one lentil.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, I reckon, you know, I like a few lentils, but if I had three kilos of lentils, I'd need some help. so Well, leading on from that, going to ask you, you become a Christian?
Faith Journey and Church Community
00:08:18
Speaker
My parents both became Christian as teenagers. So dad was from a kind of a church family. Mum was from a, not a church-going family.
00:08:30
Speaker
And they both became Christian as teenagers, took us to church when we were growing up. very consistently. Highly recommend. They just were like week in, week out, didn't matter what was going on, we went to church.
00:08:43
Speaker
They served at church and just like a very kind of consistent part of our life growing up. And so... kind of wanted to trust Jesus. I don't remember ever thinking I wouldn't trust Jesus.
00:08:58
Speaker
But I reckon my faith kind of became my own. When I was in year 12, a bunch of my school friends invited themselves to church. And it's really kind of looking back, I'm like, it actually was this magnificent thing. So probably half a dozen plus friends just were like, can we come to church?
00:09:18
Speaker
Not even in a group altogether, like from different kind of friendship circles. And yeah, they, over it the next year or so, a bunch of them became Christian. And as they...
00:09:33
Speaker
decided to follow Jesus, i had to work out kind of what I believed because, i you know, they were asking questions and I did the same course they were doing. and And so by the end of that process, I think I had a much clearer sense of what it meant to follow Jesus. I think I grew up knowing that Jesus died for my sin and had absolutely no idea what those words meant.
00:09:55
Speaker
And by the end of that process, kind of maybe a year or two, i was i had a much clearer sense that that meant was actually forgiven and that I could have a relationship with God and, yeah, and it's just kind of gone from there.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah. I love that, like, just so many people coming to church. That's just so beautiful and you've got that chance to, like, this is my family's faith but, like, do I, what do I really think about this? What do I really, you know like, really stick with that?
00:10:29
Speaker
Yeah, with people who are doing the same. Like, what an incredible opportunity. Yeah. And it just occurred to me, occurred to me today, but onet brought it to my attention, unhelpfully, that I left it 25 years ago, and which is wild.
00:10:44
Speaker
But not all of those people still trust Jesus, but a bunch of them do. And i actually saw one of them last week. I don't see her often. She lives down south. But saw her and a is this great encouragement.
00:11:00
Speaker
know, we had such an encouraging conversation about their church and how they've gotten involved and how she's taking initiative to do ministry there. And it's not been an easy year, but just seeing her, this woman who is wise and godly and her husband too, just...
00:11:19
Speaker
fills my heart with joy like I just think what an amazing thing that God did in calling all these people you know Jesus yeah and she what even more wild is like so she became a Christian when we were in first year uni I think and then like 10 years later two other friends we went to school with who were good mates of hers also became Christian just like that long slow friendship I don't know yeah it's very cool it's just It's so encouraging where you're like it's not all of those big moments. And, I mean, even like just how you became a Christian, like I think mean I think became a Christian as a teenager and now I am raised like, you know, I'm raising kids and I'm thinking about like how can I share this with them? But like I'm like, I don't know.
00:12:04
Speaker
So I just love those stories where you're like, oh, like it is just in the day in and day out, like just getting to see what faith looks like. Yes, I'm really thankful to my parents for that.
00:12:16
Speaker
And, yeah, and i look around at people at church who are doing their best to, you know, raise their kids to know the Lord and lots of the time they feel like they're not doing a very good job or they feel like they've made mistakes. But actually i think most of the time they're doing all right, trusting their kids to the Lord.
00:12:36
Speaker
Well, I find that encouraging. Yeah. What am I doing? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. Oh, man. Keep going. Keep going.
00:12:47
Speaker
oh Oh, thank you. um So who is someone who's encouraged you in your Christian walk and why?
Influence of Friendships in Faith
00:12:56
Speaker
There are so many people, so many people, but um I'll tell about one, and that is she's my friend Irene.
00:13:03
Speaker
and I reckon the reason I'll talk about her is because she had influence on me when I was at quite a formative stage of my life. And so think I am shaped in lots of ways by her, ways that I'm really thankful to the Lord. Mm-hmm.
00:13:20
Speaker
um time I think a couple of the things that really stand out, she really wants to be like Jesus and she has great patterns of reflection and repentance and faith.
00:13:31
Speaker
I had the privilege of doing that alongside her and having her share that with me about herself and also encourage me to have those same patterns. And I think that was very precious, having someone of share that with just I think it really taught me by her example to be like that, to to want to be more like Jesus and to keep...
00:13:55
Speaker
turning back and thinking, oh, yeah, not that way, but this way, not that way, this way. And she kind of paired that with prayerfulness. And so can't remember a time that we have caught up and not prayed.
00:14:09
Speaker
so she's really instilled that in me, the value of praying with your friends, like in friendship, finishing a conversation that way, entrusting each other to Lord. And then I just learned heaps of practical stuff from her as well. Like I think I've learned how to do hospitality from people the hospitality she showed me and then kind of I did alongside her. And so lots of the way I do hospitality is basically me trying to be her.
00:14:35
Speaker
yeah, I think that's actually, that's kind of great. Like I can't remember where he said it, but Paul says to a church, you know, copy me as I copy Christ. And I think, oh, yeah, that's, I reckon that's what I did with her. I like i copied her.
00:14:52
Speaker
you know And learned heaps from her example. Yeah, my father-in-law says that. He's like, oh, more, you know, if I try and ask him any question about, like, you know, what do you think about this or raising children, whatever.
00:15:03
Speaker
And he'll just I think more that is caught than taught, like, if it comes yeah to. Yeah. Yeah, and was like, I love that. You're just kind of like, oh, i'm I'm alongside you and I'm kind of, like, modelling myself on you in some of these ways that I don't know.
00:15:18
Speaker
Like, how old were you when you met Irene? I think would have been maybe 21. think she was at the time in her early 30s. She had small kids.
00:15:30
Speaker
She's about 10 years older than me, I think, or just just a little bit more than that, between 10 and 15 years older than me. That's really like, like not inquired, required like some kind of intentionality, like on both of your parts to be like, we, you know, the church is just divided up into so many different sections.
00:15:51
Speaker
You know, all the young families are over here and, you know, all of that. And I love that there was that intentionality, like we're going to catch up. I'm going to spend time with you and be like, well, how do you do this? a Like, yeah, how do you walk with, yeah.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was. I'm really thankful to the Lord for that and for her. That church, I think that's one of the things they do really well. It's a ah multi-generational church where people do have relationships with people who are not in their situation.
00:16:20
Speaker
um Yeah. but i think Yeah. I think definitely worthwhile and one of the things I love doing now, which I get to do my job, is like is setting people up in those kind of relationships
00:16:34
Speaker
because i think it is so valuable. Yeah.
Connecting Generations in Church
00:16:38
Speaker
How do you, like that is one of the things that I think Prov does really well. What kind of things do you think help in setting that up?
00:16:46
Speaker
Do you know, i am very chaotic in the way I do it. So there's no structure. We're a big church and you'd think we'd be more organised. And I just like, I don't, I just do it like a ninja and I don't keep records. And so that's actually terrible because I've got such bad memory.
00:17:03
Speaker
But I'm like, don't ask me who's meeting with who because I don't know. but literally it's just, I, I'm just always thinking about matchmaking people essentially.
00:17:14
Speaker
And I'll be thinking who, who's a woman who's kind of further along in her face. You know, think about, might they get on like,
00:17:26
Speaker
Do I think they'll click? But also just like practical things like how close do they live to each other? How might their availability sync up? i'm I'm totally happy for people to to give it a go and be like, no, that didn't work. and Let's try again.
00:17:39
Speaker
of me But amazingly, like there are people who, you know, i have forgotten that I've set up and then, you know, five years later they're like, oh, yeah, no, we're still reading the Bible together.
00:17:52
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, wow. I just think, I reckon one of the things is being willing to give it a go And I reckon if you're the younger woman who wants someone to input, just be bold and ask someone. like And they can say no and that's okay. Just like be willing to take the hit.
00:18:12
Speaker
um I literally told someone this week, I think you should invite yourself to dinner at that family's house once a week. Like set that up. Yes. And there's a context for that that means it's not super out of the blue. But still, I reckon that's a great thing to do. Like I have had that.
00:18:27
Speaker
I have a family I have dinner with once a fortnight and I've been doing it with them for like 15 years or something. And like it just done that's a slightly different thing, but it's like it's been amazing. So just reckon be bold.
00:18:42
Speaker
have a Have a go. and then And just don't overcomplicate it. So literally I'm just like, just open the Bible and read some of it together and be like, I wonder what it means. Like literally. And I sometimes will meet with people and and show them how I do it.
00:18:56
Speaker
But it doesn't have to be complicated. It's just like, let's open the Bible together, read some of it, see what we notice, and then pray for each other. ah You actually set me up with someone Prog, like girl who was a student, and you gave me a David Helm book.
00:19:14
Speaker
Oh, yes. And then I remember reading it and being like, we can literally just like read it. So I was like, oh, we'll just like read it and just see. I don't know, I'll ask someone else a question. And then I just continued because I'd done it once and I'd fumbled through. was like, I'll just give it another go. And then I'd just ask people. like Love that. But I was like, hey, do you know, I need to find a younger, need to find someone younger. That's amazing.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. And then I'd be like, can you come babysit for me? But that's actually part of what's beautiful about it, right, is that, Especially when it's an older, younger dynamic, part of the benefit for both of you is kind of getting an insight into each other's lives and it's part of what makes it beautiful and...
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, and I have been amazed that, like, I do give it some thought, but I also, um point and shoot pretty fast. And God has done kind of amazing things where it's like I thought, oh, yeah, that might work. And then it turns out that it worked in a way that I couldn't have anticipated or they had something in common that I had no idea about or...
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah. I find it very encouraging and think it's worth it. And so if you're an older woman who wants to meet with a younger woman and you don't know the young woman or you're not sure who to ask, like but I just reckon if someone came to me who was like, you know, not perfect, but like I'd been a Christian for a bit, you know, faithful and was like, want to read Bible with a younger woman, I'd be like, okay thank you very much. Like you're doing my job for me.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah, when we got to the church where we are now, like it was much more like intergenerational, but then it still took a lot of intentionality to get to know women in different seasons. So, like, even when I set a playgroup, asked our pastor's wife, I was like, you know, do some you know some, like, lovely older ladies?
00:21:04
Speaker
And I remember ringing them and being like, hey, I would like to get to know you, but I'm always wrangling my children on a Sunday. Like, you know, i need some help with playgroup on the face of it, but I just, I'd like to get to know you. Yeah. yeah Yeah. it's Yeah.
00:21:17
Speaker
And I think especially like I now think of myself kind of on the older end. I'm one of the older women. But there are, I i think it's really important to honour the older, the the women who are older than me, the older, older women at our church, because actually they've got so much value.
00:21:37
Speaker
wisdom and experience and they do get overlooked. We don't see the gift that God has given us in those women And I think wanting so to think, oh, yeah, how how can we learn from them and how can we know them and have them as part of our community? And because of one of my jobs at church, which is like I'm thinking, how can they serve? Like as a season they're in, like what does it look like for them to be a blessing in the church here? And that actually is one of the ways that,
00:22:12
Speaker
they have heaps to is to disciple younger women, especially if they've been Christians for a long time. like shouldn Yeah, share your stories. Like how did you become, like no one becomes like patient or kind or peaceful.
00:22:29
Speaker
You know, like at the start, like if you look little kids, like we're just not. You're like, how did you, like Sally Stark, I just keep telling myself Sally Stark's line, she's probably forgotten it, but she's patient little old ladies don't just happen. Yeah, you've got to exercise that.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, she's a great example of someone. Yeah, it is. It's not complicated. It's just sharing your life with each other, pointing each other to Jesus, praying together.
00:22:56
Speaker
So, yeah, it's great. It's stupid sometimes where you're like it's just it's simpler than we make it out to be. You're like, oh, there must be like this five-step plan to do it exactly right. But in the end, you're kind of like, do you just want to come to my house for a coffee?
00:23:09
Speaker
We could read this Bible. We'll just literally read this Bible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I reckon maybe that takes a bit of boldness, like, because someone could say no.
00:23:20
Speaker
And that could be hard to take. But I reckon, like, I reckon that's worth the risk. Like, it's only a very small risk. And, like, probably if that is what they say, it's not personal. It's, like, they have capacity.
00:23:34
Speaker
And so it's not about you. It's about them. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think it's a risk worth taking. Like if you were looking around at church and thinking, oh, that person there I want to learn from them or I i kind of click with them and I think that would be that would be someone that I think would be great to meet with.
00:23:51
Speaker
Take the risk. Yeah. It's worth it. reckon even just being like, can we just read this one book together? Can we just do it for a term? Like that has been really good because then you're like, if it's weird, you have an easy out.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yes, totally. Yeah, make it achievable. And just, like, circumstances change. You don't always have the same capacity. Or just, like, one of the girls I was reading the Bible with the last two years, she was a student and now she's going working full-time.
00:24:17
Speaker
And I'm not sure what that's been like this We have built this great relationship and so i do want to keep in touch with her, but we haven't decided yet whether that will be reading the Bible or not.
00:24:28
Speaker
And that'll be sad, actually. oh If it changes, as it changes, it'll be sad. But I think it's good to to name the reality and go, okay, this situation is changing.
00:24:38
Speaker
Do we have to change what we're doing? And just to kind of for that to be okay. Okay. Yeah, it's we're we're sending you off well rather than letting this thing like kind of just weirdly fade. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.
00:24:51
Speaker
And, yeah, I think, I mean, in there is a lesson which I think I find hard but is part of life. It's also just like being open-handed and thinking, okay, this has been a really good thing that I am thankful to the Lord for and I'm sad because it's changing or ending.
00:25:09
Speaker
e And that doesn't mean that I will never see, you know, this particular guy I think I'll keep in touch with, but someone else, maybe I won't see them very often. or And I can, I don't have to grab onto it. And, you know, i can yeah i can kind of move on and trust that to the Lord and know that he'll provide for me and provide for them and that that's good too.
00:25:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think there's something really like, I think this is a thing that I have been learning along with you where you're just like, oh I can really enjoy this and appreciate it while I have it.
00:25:45
Speaker
You can have something for a season and that doesn't make it any less beautiful. you can be like, I can really enjoy this for a season and I can trust God when it goes. Like you he will provide. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I think that has really helped me because sometimes the temptation is just to cling on to it.
00:26:03
Speaker
And, yeah, that's not always, i mean, sometimes that goes badly because, ah people don't always respond well to that. Like sometimes you kind of get grabby, people like back off and that gets weird.
00:26:16
Speaker
or But also just like it does make things dire slow death and to think, oh, yeah, this friendship that was once every day, every week, now is kind of from time to time and it's still good and I can still thank the Lord for it and enjoy what it is now.
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. So what is something that you've, what is something that God's taught you, like, through a hard season or suffering that you don't reckon you would have learned otherwise?
Experiencing and Overcoming Burnout
00:26:48
Speaker
Like, what did you learn about I think the season that springs to mind is a season maybe 10 years ago now. So maybe I was 18 months into pastoral ministry, so had been doing my job for, yeah, about 18 months, and we had literally just...
00:27:08
Speaker
planted a church all kind of, it's a bit complicated and weird, but and left to the church we were part of to become part of another church in a church plant kind of context. And I woke up one day and i thought I had gastro.
00:27:21
Speaker
ah just felt really nauseous and... And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, this sucks, but, you know, this will go in 24 hours. And, like, two weeks later I still was sick.
00:27:31
Speaker
And it turned out, and it was like I now look back with clarity and be like, oh, that's what happened. But it turned out that like I kind of had burnt out and I experienced that physically predominantly.
00:27:46
Speaker
in really weird kind of symptoms. And that made me, and then there had been a buildup. My mental health had declined and was very anxious, but I was physically, the physical stuff was what limited me, not the anxiety itself. They were both there, but the physical thing was what kind of got me I kept work, I didn't know what was wrong. So I think I took two weeks of sick leave thinking it was like some kind of virus.
00:28:15
Speaker
And then I just went back to work and at some point i ended up going and seeing a psychologist and he explained to me, I think you you have you've experienced burnout and this is what's going on in your brain and this is how long it's going to take.
00:28:29
Speaker
And he said to me, he's like, I think it's going to take you at least six months to recover. And I was like, what? like What? Have you seen my schedule?
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I was like, and I think I just felt so awful and so limited. I remember little things like I watched us just couldn't out at night and I watched every episode of a season of The Block, which I've never done since, it's just this one season. Yeah.
00:28:59
Speaker
And I just remember thinking like watching them do it and be like, how they doing that? Like, how are they getting up every day? And I have this really distinct memory of seeing Julie Bishop of the news, like such a random person, like a politician, and just being like, how are you running at six o'clock in the morning and then working a full day? well I just, I couldn't imagine being better again.
00:29:22
Speaker
And I remember going. Yeah, it's so far away. Yeah, and I remember going to a friend's place for dinner. At that season, i was having dinner regularly, i think once a fortnight with some friends.
00:29:33
Speaker
fireman I remember was really struggling to trust the Lord. think I had had a high capacity and found a lot of value, I think, in being competent. And all of a sudden, was very limited and I didn't really understand what was going on and I couldn't see anything.
00:29:50
Speaker
a light at the end of the tunnel. I just felt like this was going to last forever. And I felt like I was grappling with that, like what if this is my capacity forever now? and Yeah, what if this never goes away?
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, what if this never goes away? And I remember I obviously had got to their house. I can't remember this bit, but I must have done this. I must have just kind of complained a lot about the circumstances.
00:30:13
Speaker
And at dinner my friend... prayed something about, you how much God loved me in the Lord Jesus.
00:30:25
Speaker
And I was very angry. I remember being so angry. I just, I don't know why it made me angry, but i it felt like he was telling me the gospel in this prayer. And i was like, stop it.
00:30:38
Speaker
I didn't tell him in the name. don't think I've ever told him I got so angry, but on the drive home, it was a real turning point. Cause on the drive home, I was like, you know this is really hard, but wouldn't it be a waste if I got to the end of it and I hadn't trusted God? Like there's an opportunity here to learn to trust the Lord.
00:31:01
Speaker
Like I'm going to go through this either way. Like can't change that. And what if I get to the end and I've hardened my heart? Like, well, well that's a waste. like and Like I've wasted this suffering.
00:31:15
Speaker
I guess say I guess so. And think it makes you so angry. thing that made me angry was not, I wasn't angry with God. I was angry with my friend. So it's not, I don't think I was angry with God.
00:31:27
Speaker
think was angry with my friend because he pointed me to Jesus and I wanted him to wallow in. I wanted him to wallow with me. you're let me be sad. And you're like, stop telling me about Jesus. Like I i want to be sad.
00:31:39
Speaker
And he actually did a great job because he didn't, he let me be angry. let me be sad. And it was literally just that he when he said grace, he prayed for me that I would know how much God loved me.
00:31:50
Speaker
And I was like, stop it. How dare you? That's right. Yeah. But, yeah, that was probably a turning point. Like I came full circle pretty fast.
00:32:01
Speaker
So then it was, it did take six months or more to get better and it took like quite a long time after that to feel like,
00:32:12
Speaker
I was back to full capacity. Like six months later, I was like pretty good. But then it was probably another year or two before I was back to normal. Because I could feel, I could physically feel it when I pushed myself too far.
00:32:25
Speaker
i' be like, oh it's I'm on the edge. Like what do you reckon helped in that time? yeah kind of i I mean, God is very kind to me and I think maybe the thing I learned about him that sustained me, if you like, I became more and more persuaded that he was good.
00:32:46
Speaker
I guess I knew that about my head, but in an experiential way, i experienced his goodness to me and kindness and provision and he was So I think I became probably both more persuaded in my head that he was good, even though I was, you know, having a hard time suffering, but also experienced his goodness through his people, or through his kindness to me.
00:33:12
Speaker
A girl moved in with me and I'd never met her. She was like a contact person. the day i met her the day she moved in and I was sick and she cleaned the flat for a rent inspection having never me before.
00:33:25
Speaker
Just things like that. um And so... And she's actually now a very still a very dear friend. I'm very thankful to Lord for her. So don't know, just stuff like that, people cared for me, including Sally Stuck. I was brand new at that church. That's when I first met her and she was really generous.
00:33:46
Speaker
So I think just God being kind to me. And then there were also practical things, like the psych I saw was very, very helpful Help me understand what had happened, why had happened. And then he just said, it's going to take time and you need to rest. And he gave me some really good tips about rest, including things like they rest at the same time every week so that your body can anticipate it.
00:34:08
Speaker
TV's fine, but doesn't it's not going to let your brain do the thing that it needs to do. And so make sure you're doing things that are not screen related to you because your brain needs to to kind of have a break and just, so and that was really good. And it helped me. Basically I had to learn that I needed to do less on the weekend.
00:34:27
Speaker
Maybe that's how I became a potterer. I needed to learn that I needed to have time on the weekend. That was not, I wasn't outputting emotionally. So just I had to learn a few grown up skills, basically how to rest. and I think that's really lovely where you're like, it's both of those things together. You're like, yeah, well, you know, theologically you're like, I know that I really experienced that God is good.
00:34:48
Speaker
even though like these things are hard but also you're like hey I'm in a body God made me in a body have to learn how to like to tend it and yeah care for it yeah and accept and accept that I'm a creature who's limited and yes i do i I do have, I can't do everything I want to do And sometimes the right thing to say is actually, I'd love to come and XYZ, but the thing I actually need is to be at home.
00:35:26
Speaker
I think that can be quite a hard thing say. i don't i actually don't normally tell people, depends how close I am to them. Normally I would be like, i just am i can't um not available or I'm not free. and And the thing that I've planned to do is to be at home without...
00:35:41
Speaker
people or without kind of without doing things that are going to particularly output energy, output emotional resources. And I think that's okay. And I think that really is. And I think particularly, yeah, those kind of roles where you're really caring for others and sitting with that kind of stuff, like you can't.
00:36:02
Speaker
output like that all the time like no one like you said like yeah we don't have that capacity we don't but we have limits you're like yeah god god made you in a body you know he made us sleep we need rest we need to eat like we just yeah ah like i feel this as much as i want to can't do everything Yeah, totally.
00:36:29
Speaker
Yeah. And it's actually freeing in a way. i think once you get to that point, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm not God. Oh, that's actually God.
00:36:40
Speaker
You know, this is not my responsibility. Like, I don't have be responsible for that. I can just be responsible for the things that God's given me to be responsible for and I can let ah the rest of it go. Yeah.
00:36:53
Speaker
There's just such relief. You're like, look, you're responsible for your life. I can i can come alongside you for a bit and then I'm going to go to the beach and I just need to like enjoy and rest and that's it.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I think I don't want that to become a thing where I'm so self-protective that I'm not willing to serve people. I think that would be the extreme kind of overreaction to it. But I think, yeah, I think, oh, okay, yeah,
00:37:20
Speaker
How do i serve people? How do i do the things they've given me to do in a way that over a long period of time is sustainable? Because you there are little patches of life that are don't feel sustainable.
00:37:31
Speaker
I'm sure when you have a baby, it doesn't feel like that's very sustainable. But, you know, it's not that every day has to be the perfect balance of, think that's kind of unrealistic.
00:37:43
Speaker
But, yeah, just over long seasons to think, oh, yeah, I'm running hard for a month. I need to make sure. there's a break or, you know, or a normal pattern to think, oh, yeah, there needs to be space here. And if for some reason there's not for a while, to then factor it in when I can.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. No, I think you're really right. Like it's just... loving people is ineffective and it takes a lot of time and it takes a lot longer than you think it's going to take and, you know, like the Christian life is serving others.
00:38:16
Speaker
But I think, like you're saying, it's that kind of sustainability. yeah You're like, how can i i can go hard and like, you know, burn out, but you're like, well, that's not helpful for the people that you're loving and caring for the long run. if Yeah. You know. Definitely.
00:38:34
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, think that's right. No, love that. Thank you Thanks for the like. That's right. I want turn the question. How do you rest? Can turn the question back on you? Yeah, how do I rest? I am historically bad at resting.
00:38:51
Speaker
I started Sabbathing and I hated it. I had to write lists of things that would be relaxing and then I went through and ticked them off.
00:39:01
Speaker
It took me a very long time. That is hilarious. terrible but I have come to love Sabbath I love it I go to church like I sleep in I go to church well mean I sleep in but whatever like I don't get out of bed like I return back to bed with my cup of coffee and you know small children come in that's fine I go to church Yeah, but I'm like, you got look, you can have some cartoons. You can find me here. Whatever. I'm not getting up. Here's a cup of coffee.
00:39:31
Speaker
We go to church. Then I come home. I have a nap. Like, you know, we make it work. And then Sunday afternoons, like, we will drive, like, 40 minutes to the beach, like, at, like, 4 p.m.
00:39:42
Speaker
Go for walk along the beach. Have a swim if it's nice. Get pizza. So good. I'm getting better. I'm not great at it, but I'm, like, practicing, you know, keeping my phone in another room at nighttime and starting my evening and, like, having rest time when my kids are resting in the middle part of the day to be like, I will make myself lunch because that's what I would do at work.
00:40:06
Speaker
I sit down and make, a like, an actual lunch and I might read a little bit of a book. And just try to be deliberate yeah about patterns of resting. Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah. So good. That is great. love that. but Yeah. It's, I'm with you. It's just this ongoing process. You're like, well, if I continue to act like I won't have limits, I'm like, well, that's just stupid. And then I will hurt the people that I do care about and I do have responsibilities for.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, all right. Well, what you reckon is a word of encouragement you can offer to a woman who has maybe been not listening to her body and furloughed by like something when your body's just kind of given up and like, no, you feel fine, but I've stopped. Like what's a word of encouragement you can maybe offer to a woman like that?
Encouragement in Difficult Times
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah, maybe it is that thing of, like, God is good. And so in the midst of that suffering, I think probably whatever suffering it is, it it can be it can be really easy to lose sight of that.
00:41:09
Speaker
But to think, actually, God good. And maybe everything is, like, he loves you more than you can imagine. Like, he just... we don't no we can't comprehend the depths of how precious we are to him.
00:41:25
Speaker
and And so think that's a thing worth kind of meditating on kind of reflecting on in the midst of those things. Because you you can feel like, what is God doing? Like, has God abandoned Yeah.
00:41:40
Speaker
And to think, oh, actually, God loves me. out um remember listening to this talk by Alan Chappell, who was one of my teachers at Trinity Theological College, and it was a talk on some...
00:41:54
Speaker
I think it's Psalm 77, but always forget. I'm like 73, think it's 77. The psalmist is crying out to God and he's like, where are you? Have you abandoned me? Have you forgotten to be good to me?
00:42:07
Speaker
Like what, you know, what is going on? and then of halfway through the psalm, it turns and he says, this I'll remember when you brought your people out of Egypt through the sea with your mighty arm and And it kind of reflects on the Exodus. And then it just ends very abruptly. It just kind of cuts off.
00:42:27
Speaker
and you're like, what? Did you forget to finish? Like, what's going on here? I remember Alan saying in this talk, he's like, the psalmist in his circumstance is in the darkness and he can't see who God is, his goodness, doesn't know, can't feel God's love for him. And so he looks back to this event in the past and says,
00:42:50
Speaker
oh, I see how you loved your people there. And so I i know that you love me because you loved me And I think he said, you know, that's the cross. Like we know God loves us because we look we look to the cross and we see that he loved us in giving us his son And so what good thing will he withhold from us? And I think, ah you know, Alan described it as a lighthouse in the darkness. So you're in the dark, can't see anything, but you look to the lighthouse and see.
00:43:21
Speaker
ah you see and yeah in the midst of difficult things it's it's really can be very hard to understand what's going on and you can feel like god isn't good or maybe he doesn't love you and to look to the cross and think oh no God has done everything I need. He's provided everything for me.
00:43:45
Speaker
you know, even if the thing that's very hard is your own sin, he's, yeah know, i'm precious to him. He loves me and he knows everything, my blackest parts, and yet I'm still precious to him. And I think that that is a thing worth chewing on and reminding each other of Yeah.
00:44:07
Speaker
I love that. I mean, There's something really in that where you think, if I'm a high-capacity person and I, you know, you're like, I'm always doing stuff. I'm doing stuff for God.
00:44:18
Speaker
But then, you know, you're taken out at the knees and you can't do stuff. yeah Yeah, love that to be like, God knows everything about me and he knows all the worst about me and he still loves me the same.
00:44:30
Speaker
Like, that's really beautiful. That's a beautiful note to end on, Ames. I love it. Who... Who would you nominate for this next? Who do you think would be really lovely to hear from or someone that encourages you?
00:44:44
Speaker
Her name's Crystal, Chrissy. She comes to my church. And the reason wanted to about her, so she's someone now, she's a good friend of mine. She's just become my neighbour, which is like the most delightful thing ever.
00:44:56
Speaker
She's moved in around the corner. Oh, great. actually became friends with Chrissy when we read the Bible together. And we used to read the Bible together at Lake Munger after work. So we'd both drive there after work and we'd hop in one of our cars Unless it was really good weather, mostly it was not good weather.
00:45:13
Speaker
Like it was too cold, too windy, the birds were too loud. And we'd hop in the car together and read the Bible and... pray for each other and we don't do that anymore we haven't done it for years but it became this lovely friendship and but the thing we used to joke about that at the time we used to listen to this podcast of these two girls who would report record this podcast in their car and so she was like any one day what if we recorded a podcast of our chats in the car you Anyway, so I just feel like, Crystal, here is your moment.
00:45:46
Speaker
and And she is someone who now consistently points me to Jesus and encourages me and challenges me. Like, she will pick me up on stuff and encourage me to be more like Jesus. And I think, who doesn't need a friend like that?
00:46:01
Speaker
You really do. Yeah. A hundred percent. kindten yeah Yeah. I've got a few friends like that and you're like, they are precious and right and rare. They are truly beautiful. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah.