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142. Cooking Therapy-with Debra Borden
102 Plays2 years ago
Debra Borden, better known as The Sous Therapist, is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in NY and NJ, and a pioneer in the field of Cooking Therapy. Author of two novels published by Random House, “Lucky Me” and “A Little Bit Married,” as well as the self-help book, “Cook Your Marriage Happy,” Debra has a wealth of experience to share in how to take away the stigma associated with mental health and struggling relationships through her unique approach of putting the kitchen at the center of the problem-solving process. Borden can show your audience how cooking therapy helps diffuse problems and makes it easier to discuss such issues as fairness, perspective, responsibility and gratitude.
Website: https://debrabordenauthor.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/debraborden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DebraBordenLCSWandAuthor
TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@cookyourselfhappy
https://www.Cookyourselfhappy.com
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest or for grief coaching:
https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
Recommended
Transcript
Gathering Ingredients: Personal Motivations
00:00:01
Speaker
It's so funny that you would bring that up because there's a couple of tried and true initial steps in every cooking therapy session. And the first thing is gather your ingredients, which is a double entendre, because yes, we look at all of the things we've brought, the actual items, but then I say stop for a minute. And what have you brought to the table today? You know, what's your purpose or motivation? What do you hope to get out of this?
00:00:30
Speaker
Sometimes it can even be skepticism because whether it's art therapy or culinary therapy or equine therapy, you know, things that are new, people tend to be like, how is this? You know, I'm not quite sure.
Introduction to 'Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between'
00:00:48
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:56
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:12
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'm hoping our audience gets cozy, ready with maybe a cup of coffee or tea as they listen to this conversation that I'm having today with Deborah Borden.
Meet Deborah Borden: Sioux Therapist
00:01:45
Speaker
She is better known as the Sioux therapist.
00:01:50
Speaker
Actually, you might get hungry as you listen to this episode too. So just kind of have that in the back of your mind. If you're hungry now, you might want to pause as you listen to this because we will be talking about food and its influence and healing and how she uses that in her therapy because she is a licensed clinical social worker in New York and New Jersey and a pioneer in the field of cooking therapy.
00:02:17
Speaker
So we will be lucky to be listening to this interview. She is a published author of actually a book called Lucky Me, A Little Bit Married, and then the most recent one, Cook Your Marriage Happy. So welcome, Deborah.
Adapting Titles: From 'Food Therapist' to 'Sioux Therapist'
00:02:34
Speaker
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
00:02:37
Speaker
happy that you are and happy to be learning more about you and about your work and how you came about. Did I say Sioux Therapists? Is that how it's pronounced for like a Sioux chef? Exactly. It was originally the food therapist, but there were some issues with copyright and I couldn't get the website. So we pivoted, which is actually a big metaphor.
00:03:04
Speaker
that I use a lot in recipes and life.
00:03:09
Speaker
Oh, I pivot in my recipes quite a bit. As I was reading your description about your book and the way that you combine therapy and cooking and the descriptions that you use, the pivoting is mine. I'm like, oh, I don't have butter. Okay, let me see. What can I do instead of using butter? And I pivot and I find something else or I don't have an egg. Oh, I can find something that does the same thing as an egg.
00:03:36
Speaker
do that. So I'm so excited to have that conversation with you. But let's start talking about
Deborah's Personal Journey
00:03:41
Speaker
your life. So share with us about your upbringing, where you grew up and a little bit about your family dynamics. Sure. Well, I actually grew up in New York and then raised the family in New Jersey. And shortly after empty nesting,
00:03:57
Speaker
and getting the kids off the payroll. It's true, it happens. I actually got a divorce and met my future husband in the same field. He was a psychologist and owned some therapeutic businesses. We're together about 10 years and both were of similar mind that we wanted to
00:04:21
Speaker
being warmer weather in the winter and we're both golfers. So we love that. So now I'm sort of a snowbird. Part here, part there. And it's only been about a year, a year and a half. So, you know, I can tell you, I can tell you I love being here, especially on a day like today, I see the weather in New York is snow.
00:04:44
Speaker
And it's only 82 and sunny here today.
A Career in Therapy: From Writer to Social Worker
00:04:49
Speaker
Oh, only. So now take us into how you became a licensed clinical social worker. So very interesting when I actually
00:04:59
Speaker
went back to school for my masters when my kids were a little older. I think they were in fifth and eighth grade, respectively. And that was really just driven by the idea that I had published two novels, blessed and grateful for that to happen. That had always been my hat and my talent. I had worked as a writer in a lot of different ways.
00:05:28
Speaker
But then when I sat down to write that novel and got published, it was truly amazing. And in fact, the day I learned that- Which one of the two? Lucky Me or the Little Bit Married? Lucky Me was the first. Okay. And a little bit married, you could tell I was on the road to a divorce. So not really, I don't think at that time, but who knows. And that's a really interesting thing. Until you tease things out, which you'll see my therapy hat,
00:05:54
Speaker
come out sometimes not just in conversation, but by doing. In my case, it was writing. It's a little more tangible. It hits different parts of the brain. And you'd be surprised how you can be more self-insightful and self-discovering when you're doing an activity. And I'll segue when we talk about the cooking therapy. But I did publish the books. And publishing then took kind of a turn with Amazon
00:06:23
Speaker
Things changed. There were many, many publishers. The big ones contracted to a small number. Very hard to sell books the way it had been. And in fact, my editor at Random House lost her imprint. And so I had to pivot, which we were talking about. And again, my relationship was changing. And so I went back to school for social work, got a full-time job, got my own health insurance.
00:06:51
Speaker
and was a very traditional talk therapist for a while, working with families, actually school social worker, which fit into my kid's schedule and then expanded to families.
Grief and Identity Loss: Personal Insights
00:07:04
Speaker
Now, in that journey then of writing the first two books and sharing a little of what you said, a little bit married and your divorce,
00:07:20
Speaker
Did you experience grief in those areas of your life, in that aspect, in the moving, in your children moving out of the home? Did you experience grief from those different transitions? I would say tremendously. And that definitely informs my practice today. And when I talk about grief and loss, almost none of my experience as a clinician
00:07:46
Speaker
is with actual loss of life, but so much more with the associated loss of certain changes. For me, I was a writer. I thought I was a writer forever. I was waiting for book three, four, seven, in fact, three and four in a drawer. And even though I know they're good and I've got all that validation now, it's can't get them published. So that was huge.
00:08:16
Speaker
loss of identity, which I think a lot of people can relate to, was so painful on a personal level. And as I said, you know, but, you know, I'll tell you something funny, people have different constitutions. And I think I was blessed in some way with a kind of, okay,
00:08:40
Speaker
Well, what are you going to do about it? What are your choices here? And so I've always been, I remember, my kids will tell you an expression they grew up with, which was, buck up, buddy. And it's not clinical. And it doesn't always work. It's carry on. It's like, no, carry on, carry on. It's like, chop, chop. OK. Yes, yes. Grief. Yes. Morn it.
00:09:06
Speaker
feel it, don't not feel it. That's the worst thing because whatever you push down will come up somewhere else and definitely not in as healthy a place as sharing it. But now you have a choice at a certain point. And I'm very careful when I talk about that because as I said, that's me. That's my constitution. And for me, it might be a month or six months. For someone else, it might be yours.
00:09:35
Speaker
So I never want to put my stamp on someone else's grief process. But at the end of the day, is it helping you? Are you progressing in any way, even if you're treading water, which is OK? Or when is the grief or the dwelling on the grief starting to make it worse? It's not helping you excavate. It's not helping you come to terms. But it's really handicapping.
00:10:03
Speaker
your life, your relationships. That's a question to ask and for a client to answer. But long-winded answer. But then, yes, my relationship was ending. And even though I spearheaded it, it was the same. My husband now, we call it the D word. Nobody in our family was divorced. We felt incredibly like losers.
00:10:31
Speaker
even though we were both the ones to leave the relationship and knew that was a good move, it wasn't, you know, dancing unicorns and rainbows. There was definitely a grief and loss process. And I would say even still today, I loved the intactness of an intact family. And even though I made the right decision, I'll always miss being the Borden's, you know, the way we were, so.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, because then that component, like you mentioned, of the loss of identity even within that structure of that family, of the Christmases altogether, or not Christmases, sorry, the Hanukkah, so any holidays, okay. We call it Christmakah. Christmakah, okay.
00:11:21
Speaker
the holidays all together and things like that, the trips, vacation, those kind of things that you could still miss, that your kids are maybe now doing separately than you and vice versa. And so yeah, there's a lot of juggling.
00:11:38
Speaker
A lot of juggling and yeah, it's a lot of grief in any of those big life transitions.
Cooking as Therapy: Origins and Benefits
00:11:45
Speaker
Now, as you were doing then your work, how did the idea of starting to incorporate the cooking component with your therapy come about? Was it one specific patient that you had, client that you had that then you used it and you saw, oh, or did you use it first on yourself? And then you're like, okay, this analogy works and this works.
00:12:08
Speaker
Share now that journey. Absolutely. So yes, I have always found some solace in the kitchen, but I want to be very clear what the zen or the warmth that I feel when I'm cooking is actually very different than clinical
00:12:27
Speaker
cooking therapy or culinary therapy. The foundation is the same memory, nurturing, feeding your body good things. That's a very big foundational piece. So I guess the best way is to tell you how it evolved. I was working for the state of New Jersey who had a wonderful program where they would send me into family's homes that unless someone came to the home, they couldn't access therapy.
00:12:56
Speaker
So it could have been a physical ailment. Most often it was an economic issue. And I began with adolescents who were alone in the home because both parents had to work and things were going on at school or in the home. So oftentimes I found myself with a 16-year-old teenager
00:13:20
Speaker
who had been in school all day and now was so lucky to have two hours of therapy when he got home from school. And it was very challenging. I became a certified play therapist, played a lot of therapy games, created a bunch of games, feelings Jenga I could do by heart.
00:13:42
Speaker
But what I noticed was the kids were always hungry. And I had remembered from a group I ran in high school as a school social worker that if you brought food, they would talk to you. Also, the diets due to probably more economic than lack of education, but I called it
00:14:00
Speaker
The kitchen was Doritos, Wonder White Bread, and Frosted Flakes. So that's not going to help anybody. This is not an advertising. This podcast is not sponsored by these. And I don't mean to put them down in moderation.
00:14:16
Speaker
but a sugar diet and, you know. I hear you. Yeah. That also affects your mood too. I tell my kids all the time. Absolutely. I was like, when I would ban them from red number four or whatever, five, whatever, the number five, all the food colorings. I'm like, no, you guys can't have food colorings for Monday through Thursdays because then it will not allow you to focus on your schoolwork. That was right. You know, so I understand. It's so true. And it's been proven, you know, scientifically.
00:14:43
Speaker
But I thought, well, maybe we'll cook together because they were always better when we weren't making one-on-one eye contact, when we were working side by side.
00:14:54
Speaker
A lot of what came, they taught me. I realized that when we were working side by side, it was more of a level playing field. And it wasn't just like, oh, I'm the big therapist. And you can't say to a 16-year-old for two hours, and how do you feel about that? And how do you feel about that? It's ridiculous, especially when you see out of the corner of the ride, they're just looking to want to play.
00:15:18
Speaker
full metal jacket or be on their iPhone. But food, yes. So we started cooking together. And I will tell you, they loved it. I wasn't sure at the time, quite frankly, it was therapeutic, except they would talk a little bit more to me. They would get a little more engaged and a little less resistance. But I had a breakthrough with a 14-year-old girl who was
00:15:45
Speaker
family had just fractured. The father had left mom for his assistant and they had a new baby and mom was very bitter. She was not doing the best job of, you know, kind of protecting her daughter from feeling angry because she was angry. And in fact, the
00:16:06
Speaker
The client, this 14-year-old girl, was in total denial. The school had been called in. A police incident had happened. Mom didn't know what to do with her. But if you spoke with her, she'd go, no, it's great. Everything's fine. I don't really know what you mean. It's all good. So little clue, she would only answer if I called her. She adopted a new name, the heroine in one of the trilogies that were out and very popular.
00:16:35
Speaker
And unless I called her that name, she wouldn't answer. But if I called her that name, she would speak to me, but still would nothing, nothing of substance. So I decided to make with her life is sweet and sour meatballs and
00:16:51
Speaker
I always name my recipes because it seems people remember them, if you call it a title, rather than saying, we made meatballs. And they were turkey meatballs. So they were a little healthier. And I made her get her hands in there and shape the balls. We talked a little bit about shaping things. And the metaphors for me started to sort of reveal themselves. But the real key was when she was mashing up the turkey and the egg
00:17:20
Speaker
and the panko. And she looked up at me and said, this is what I'd like to do to my new baby sister. And I know how it sounds. I know it sounds evil. But the truth is, it was so real that for me, it was the first real moment. And honestly, it was a portal. So we could do some real work.
00:17:49
Speaker
after that. And so what I did was realize this was a, this was, I knew about other experiential therapies and I realized, and frankly, food was so hot at the time.
Adaptation in Life and Recipes
00:18:03
Speaker
You know, the Food Network was booming going back about 15 years. Everybody was kind of, it wasn't like the old days where the kitchen and food were like not that exciting. It was kind of a win-win match of things.
00:18:19
Speaker
So creative with the names of sweet and sour, the sweet and sour meat. Life's sweet and sour meatballs. So let's talk about other examples of these titles of recipes and then how they
00:18:39
Speaker
correlate to our life. Let's go into the one of pivot then. How inhibiting in recipes and how that relates to our life. Well, so what I do when I'm going to do a cooking therapy session with a client is have a 15-minute phone conversation.
00:18:59
Speaker
And so in that, I can not only customize a recipe for any dietary concerns. And if we're doing it virtually, it works just as well. I just have them buy all the ingredients. But it can kind of be one of two ways. Let's say they say to me, could we do a dessert? I just, you know, I'm not really great at baking. I'd love you to help me through that. I could do that. And based on the issue,
00:19:23
Speaker
Let's say it's a life transition where they do have to pivot. So I will be thinking of desserts where maybe, you know how sometimes you have to separate ingredients
00:19:37
Speaker
Put them in alternately. Like liquids and solids sometimes. Sometimes. I have a cinnamon chocolate banana bread recipe where you split the batter. Please tell me. I'm telling you, you're going to make me agree.
00:19:54
Speaker
And so you have the batter, and then one thing goes in one side, and one thing goes in the other. And it's kind of a good metaphor for you're more than just one thing. You're more than just that marriage. You're more than just the one job you have now. You're more than just the parenting you've done to this point. You can change. You can pivot. So that's what I would do.
00:20:21
Speaker
I could start with, you know what? I could say I have a great recipe that really addresses a life change or a loss. Would you be open to making a banana bread, let's say? But of course, there's so many, so many recipes. And I'm better in the moment. The book I wrote, Cook Your Marriage Happy, talked about four specific reasons.
00:20:49
Speaker
most reasons that marriages fall apart. And then what I did was customize about four recipes for each issue. I think one was financial reasons. One was I don't touch adultery. I leave that for a licensed marriage and family therapist. That's a big one though. And another one is growing apart. And so I'm not sure.
00:21:17
Speaker
So, but getting back to pivoting, which really, I mean, don't we all have to do that in some way every day, let alone for the big issues that come our way? So, there are a lot of recipes. And you brought up some substitutions, whether it's applesauce or yogurt, those are always big, I think. And eggs, by the way,
00:21:40
Speaker
are a wonderful metaphor for a new sort of birth or a new way of looking at your life. Every time I use an egg in a recipe, when we crack it open, I just think there's a yolk. That's something that could be a life. And take a moment to just think about what else? What else can you birth? What else can grow?
00:22:05
Speaker
Wow. And the component of an egg, too, of what happens even with that egg, if it still stays in shell and you heat it like hard-boiled, like the different textures that could, I'm sure so many metaphors can come up from that as well, that all this heat is happening and this egg is going through so much while you're boiling an egg, yet it's something edible that you get to have and enjoy.
00:22:35
Speaker
It's so funny that you would bring that up because there's a couple of tried and true initial steps in every cooking therapy session.
Therapeutic Steps in Cooking Therapy
00:22:42
Speaker
And the first thing is gather your ingredients, which is a double entendre. Because yes, we look at all of the things we've brought, the actual items. But then I say stop for a minute. And what have you brought to the table today? What's your purpose or motivation? What do you hope to get out of this?
00:23:04
Speaker
Sometimes it can even be skepticism because whether it's art therapy or culinary therapy or equine therapy, things that are new, people tend to be like, how is this? I'm not quite sure. The second thing is washing our hands, which is very concrete.
00:23:24
Speaker
and just sets us up for a new, fresh beginning. But the third thing, tying in what you were talking about, is often preheating the oven. And heat, we know, is a catalyst for everything that's going in there is going to change. And we stop and take a minute and think about that. And sometimes, just gathering the ingredients and discussing that,
00:23:50
Speaker
washing your hands and discussing that, being mindful, thinking about the heat, that can take 20 minutes, just that before we even get to the recipe.
00:24:02
Speaker
I am visualizing this, thinking of you in a kitchen with a client and going through this and the amount of emotions that can come up from each of those steps. Are there ever times in which you don't actually get to even start the recipe because a lot just happened in that moment of you turning on the oven and talking about all the heat and what that's bringing up in that individual that
00:24:32
Speaker
maybe that day, that's all you end up being able to do and that that's where all the therapy ends up occurring? It's a great question because what happens is we can run out of time. So if it's an in-person session, which really is going back now three years because with COVID everything changed, then I try to get to the end. I try really hard.
00:24:56
Speaker
because the curriculum that I've developed is 3Ms. It's metaphor, mindfulness, and mastery. And the mastery comes at the end with this finished product, because not only have you had a therapy session, but you might have dinner. So it's a really powerful thing, especially a lot of clients are feeling
00:25:23
Speaker
if not before therapy, then because they're in therapy that somehow they're failing at something. So I say that if I could script a success into every client's day and teach them how to do it too, I mean, that is gold. So I do try to get to the end. What I will do
00:25:45
Speaker
if I have to leave, is guide them through what they're going to do after. And we can video chat or send photos. And then I can sort of reinforce everything that I want them to feel and make sure they understand what they created. And by the way, there are no failures. Even if the recipe doesn't turn out, I use the metaphor of making bread.
00:26:12
Speaker
Sometimes it doesn't rise. You know, we're human. Ovens are different. Recipes are faulty. But guess what? Take a look. Take a look at what you did. It is about the journey and all the steps. But who knows? Maybe even though you don't have that gorgeous sourdough bread, you have some crackers or pita or breadcrumbs. So there's always something to be teased out. Or if it's a total disaster,
00:26:41
Speaker
you know, what do you do when that happens? Do you have the ability to kind of brush it off, not take it so seriously into heart? Or, you know, can you laugh about it and go it's pizza night? Or if you can't, that's, that's where we need to go next. So
00:27:01
Speaker
It is a great way of seeing how someone navigates situations that come up, right? When you're in that moment of the, oh, now what? I was totally thought that I was going to serve this for dinner. Now I can't. Now what do you do, right? What do you do about it?
00:27:20
Speaker
And that is a great analogy then in life. You totally thought that you were going to spend the rest of your life with this person, that this was going to be your life. The picket fence, this children, this, all that. And it didn't happen.
00:27:36
Speaker
Now what? What do you do? What are you going to do? So all these, my gosh, analogies come to mind for me as you're talking about. So again, it's metaphor, mindfulness, and mastery.
00:27:54
Speaker
So as you are coming up with these ideas with each of your clients, what are some of these other recipes and give us then some examples. Let's talk about balsamic, like one that you shared with me was a balsamic reduction for example. What happens there of something that is this that turns into something else or used completely differently and how you apply that lesson then in someone's journey.
Reduction Sauce: A Metaphor for Relationships
00:28:24
Speaker
Yes, well, if we're going to address the loss component, I think a reduction, I think the recipe is called a relationship reduction, which I originally created for
00:28:41
Speaker
a marriage that was ending. And I'll just share with you, it actually wasn't what we were making. It's something that came out of a session where the client was, we were baking and she put in sugar instead of the flour, flour instead of the sugar, I was right there. And she frantically tried to scoop it out. And she stopped, looked up at me and said, this is just like my marriage, no matter what I do.
00:29:11
Speaker
I can't fix it. And that was a really powerful moment. But what I realized after that was working with her, and I didn't encourage her to end her marriage. That gave her clarity and strength, really. She knew it really was time to move on.
00:29:31
Speaker
But with her, we talked about the loss of it. And I thought a reduction was a great idea because here you have this sort of, you could have a cup of liquid, which sort of like that's your cup is full, everything you thought, your little picket fence and your
00:29:52
Speaker
You know, two kids and a dog, and then it boils. It burns a little. It goes away a little. There are some fumes that can make you cry when you're burning off vinegar or alcohol. Then suddenly you're left with this residue, right? And it doesn't look anything like what you had.
00:30:19
Speaker
The time between coming to the fact that that small thing that you're left with can inform another dish, and I mean that, inform another relationship, inform your next relationship, and even make it better, because we know all of the things you learned have kind of reduced and solidified and are stronger and more potent. And it's sad.
00:30:48
Speaker
that some of the ingredients are gone and maybe you wouldn't choose that, but it happened and it happened for a reason. And now you can use it, that reduction for a pasta or a quinoa or a new spouse.
00:31:09
Speaker
Does that make sense? Oh, yes. Yes, so much. So thank you. No, they're just I love analogies in general. I think they just help help metaphors. I just think they help visualize something that is so hard to explain sometimes. And so when we grab things from our day to day and then put those into words and with children, right, that that that's how your work started was with teens.
00:31:36
Speaker
So it just materialized into now you serving many other people, serving literally too, right? The families loved it when they'd want to do it. They'd see me working with the kids and it was, you know, because let's face it, sometimes
00:31:56
Speaker
therapy can be not boring, but depending on the therapist, it can be a little one note. Believe me, I'm, I'm, I am a therapist, I'm pro therapy.
00:32:08
Speaker
I should say that I think experiential therapies are an enhancement for talk therapy, never a substitute. But sometimes you can jumpstart it by doing something tangible or concrete and then using that in a regular talk therapy session. So.
00:32:28
Speaker
Perfectly said. Now take us into how you now practice and then do you train now people in your method of being a Sioux therapist? So people seem fascinated by it. The buzz is just getting crazy. So I've had to go on TikTok of all things. No, I mean, really, I do get a lot of inquiries. I've trained colleagues. I've even trained colleagues in
00:32:57
Speaker
France and Spain, which by the way, Europeans just seem to be even more open. So yes, so but even some American Food Network stars recently, I was able to work with Katie Lee Beagle of the Food Network. And oh, David Burke, the chef, he's pretty well known, just because they actually David Burke said to me, he feels so bad that even chefs who got into this for the love of cooking,
00:33:26
Speaker
have gotten so caught up in the business that they need cooking therapy to get back to the joy and all of it. But there's been like kind of a metamorphosis for me. And again, it was COVID driven. So I'm doing much more working with groups who kind of like the infotainment act
00:33:50
Speaker
Wait, is that a new word I've never heard? It's not new, and I didn't coin it. I think it's out there. So if you have a hospital, and every quarter you have a breakfast for all your doctors, it can be very boring. You've been to those. Everybody's been to those organizational events. And sometimes it's interesting.
00:34:18
Speaker
But if you have a demo, or you have something tangible, and there's even a shred of credibility, hey, she's a social worker. Hey, she does this from Mount Sinai in New York City, or she's been on TV, or she's covered in bon appetit. So what's happened is it's evolved into having the cred, but also it's a fun thing. And it's funny. Sometimes it's hysterical.
00:34:47
Speaker
especially like, you know, some people say, my, I learn at every single presentation because someone will say like, well, like, you know, you're peeling a cucumber and, and you'll say, well, think of something bitter you'd like to peel away. And someone will go, well, I need an eggplant for that, you know, or, you know, that just comes out and it's fun. Um, so I guess more I'm doing groups, organizations, more event,
00:35:17
Speaker
type things and articles, writing articles about it as well. And wonderful, great new venues like this, podcasts where people listen and it's a little entertaining as well as clinical. Now, is there a cookbook in any of your drawers that you said that have not been published or anything like that coming up?
00:35:47
Speaker
Cook Your Marriage Happy is the first in the Cook Yourself Happy series. Cook Yourself Happy is my website, cookyourselfhappy.com. And I probably should have named it Cook Yourself Happy, volume one. But as people do, you sort of explore out there what brings people into therapy the most. And I wanted to reach the most people, and they said it was relationships.
00:36:14
Speaker
So I may have to go back and rename, but there are so many in the future. And again, talking with you on your podcast, it could be, you know, cook your empty nest, happy cook your
00:36:28
Speaker
first marriage happy, cook your sex life happy, cook your relationship with your children too. Oh, the kids. Definitely the kids. By the way, kids love this because they don't want to go to therapy, generally some do. And remember, this is a therapy
00:36:53
Speaker
you can schedule at your time once you learn how to do it. Oh, that's what you had asked me. So not only do I, this is the therapy you can do at home. Do try this at home once you know how to do it. In fact, I got an email from someone who said something like, Deborah, thanks a lot. I can't even make a sandwich without thinking about all the layers in my life.
00:37:17
Speaker
Um, so, you know, you get a little crazy with the metaphors, but you could do it with a bowl of cereal. Um, I've done cooking therapy with a baked potato, literally. And once you teach it, you can do it with your family. You can schedule it at your own time. It's free. Can you imagine that? And you don't have to travel and fit it in. If you're a busy parent juggling kids, you know, with your carpools and all, you could fit it in Friday at six.
00:37:45
Speaker
And it's also part of your schedule. Eating and cooking is part of our daily life. So you're just basically making it be something more in that moment. So you're not really taking away anything. You're just adding into your life already. I think one of the
00:38:06
Speaker
It's a chapter title or an article title. I can't remember what, but it's, um, why not have a side of self-esteem with that salmon? So you're right. You know, you're making that. What can we, what can we, even if you're not the professional or the suit therapist, once you learn this, even if you have three questions for your kids, you know, and you say, what does it mean to have the skin on?
00:38:33
Speaker
What does it mean to take it off? Does that mean maybe you're more vulnerable? Anything. It just goes. Wow.
Connecting with Teens Through Cooking Therapy
00:38:42
Speaker
Now I'm going to have to schedule some Sioux therapy with my teens. If I could just get them to the kitchen. It used to be hard not to have them in the kitchen when they were little. They wanted to help with everything. That's what I should have been doing a lot of these examples to. I used it for a lot of math lessons then, right?
00:39:02
Speaker
measuring and all that. Now we can use them for the emotional lessons. I have a recipe for you. Tune in and talk to me tacos.
00:39:12
Speaker
I'll send it to you. Oh, I'm so grateful. That'd be wonderful. Thank you so much. Is there anything I have not asked you that you want to make sure the listeners take away? I think just like that, what I'll send you is the recipe with all the questions. There's a couple of worksheets. And on my website right now, it's not tuned in and talk to me tacos. I forgot because we change it up.
00:39:39
Speaker
But if you just go to cookyourselfhappy.com forward slash gift, you get a free mini session as my gift to any of your listeners.
00:39:51
Speaker
Oh, what a treat. So I hope everybody stayed till the end to listen to this part that you get a free mini session with Deborah.
Finding Deborah Borden Online
00:40:01
Speaker
And Deborah, how can people, now you mentioned your website, how can people get this current book and any of your other books or work with you? Well, everything's on Amazon or my website, cookyourselfhappy.com. I'm also on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. I'm pretty easy to find.
00:40:21
Speaker
with my novels, my website is Debra Borden, author.com, but that shows up on Cook Yourself Happy if you're interested in the novels. And if you go to that, the Sioux therapy shows up on that, so.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yes, you know, you're never rid of me. No worries. Everything's intertwined. You can find one thing and the other and vice versa. So thank you. I appreciate you so much. Again, this was Deborah Borden on our podcast and looking forward to my cooking experiments with my teens and with my husband too. So thank you. You're so welcome. Thanks for having me.
00:41:06
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:41:34
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.