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An Artpop Talk with Fandames
213 Plays1 year ago
In today's episode, we chat with Parks and Nebula from the Fandames pod. From cosplay to comics, these dames talk about fandom across the board. You can listen to the Fandames pod HERE. For more Fandames' content on Patreon, click HERE.
Find the Fandames on Instagram.
For more Artpop Talk, click HERE.
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Transcript
Introduction of Guests and Their Backgrounds
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. We have a very special episode for you today. We've got two dames on here from the show Fan Dames with Parks and Nebula. Their show is co-created and co-hosted by lifelong fandom dwellers that became friends through their mutual love of anime, video games, comics, and creatively exploring dedicated fan spaces.
00:00:27
Speaker
Parks is a veteran cosplayer and convention panelist, and Nebula is a digital artist and novice cosplayer. Both work together to highlight the experiences of women and queer folks in fandom through fandames. Alright everyone, we are getting straight into the interview, so let's art pop talk.
Creative Partnership and Cosplay Influences
00:01:08
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to the show, everyone. Now, you might recall one of these voices. They have been on APT before. Nebula, we are so honored to have you back. And we have another actual special guest that you haven't heard before. Parks, can you both introduce yourself to the art pop tarts and tell us a little bit about why you're here today?
00:01:36
Speaker
Don't prompt me, I'm prompting you. I've been on this show three fucking times. Okay, whatever. Hi, I'm Parks. I'm Parks of Fandames with Parks and Nebula. I'm a cosplayer and I'm the one that brought Neb back into cosplay and I'm the one that got her onto this project because we both have love for the worst things on the internet. Nebula.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah, I've been with APT since day fucking one, base. And now Parks and I have been building up fandames in our side of podcasting. And she picked me up like I'm a little kitten by my scruff and threw me back into the cosplay realm. And we like to talk about anime and video games and everything in between and all the good, the bad and the fucked up.
00:02:21
Speaker
So that's where we're at. Yeah, it's us. Wow, what an iconic introduction this was, I must say. That's what we submit to panels when they want to see us. What's up? Take it or leave it. Like or unsubscribe. I give zero fucks.
00:02:38
Speaker
We love it and we love that energy that you guys are bringing on Fandames and to us on our Pop Talk today. So speak to us a little bit more about your podcast and a little bit more about your relationship with Cosplay because you both come from Cosplay backgrounds in your intersections with nerd culture and you guys kind of culminate that onto the podcast. So talk about your perspectives on the pod because I'm just loving this energy between you two and I feel like there's like
00:03:08
Speaker
a nice back and forth happening that people really need to tune in for. So I've been cosplaying longer, I say in parentheses, because technically, Neb has, but it was very, very inconsistent. But we did start around the same time. I was on early Tumblr, which everyone who can relate shouldn't. It's a terrible experience. But I've been doing it since then. And it's been more serious for me as a job making commissions.
00:03:36
Speaker
and expressing myself more and more within the last three years because I lost my love for digital art. And it felt like it was easier for me to still adapt while I could get my hands on something rather than being unable to go get like pen and paper I was able to just keep sewing and sewing and sewing and so
00:03:52
Speaker
when it became time for events to come back, that was when I started showing stuff to Neb. I was like, hey, you, you want to do this so bad. And I would show her like comic book characters, stuff like that. That's where it came for both of us as a whole. But I was always doing this. I come from a sewing background. My aunt makes dance costumes. My mom was making my costumes growing up. So I loved doing it. And I loved being able to have a platform to do it now that social media is kind of moving to actually looking at things that people are creating. And
00:04:21
Speaker
It's very cool for me. Oh my gosh. A fellow art Nepo baby. We love it. I love being blessed with a sewing machine when I'm five. Oh my gosh. I can't use that shit. Purple Bratz machine. It was great. Oh, it's the best one. Did you have like a bedazzler with it too? No, I didn't have a bedazzler, but I used to make little tiny purses that would like hold my Nintendo DS, my pink one. Yeah.
00:04:49
Speaker
Well, thank you for using your privilege to bring us cosplay. We stand. Thank you. Someone had to do it. It's true. It's true. Nebula, do you want to talk about your relationship with cosplay a
Artistic Expression in Cosplay
00:05:07
Speaker
little bit? Yeah, because it's completely morphed since the last time I have talked to you guys on APT. So when I was younger, which I'm 25 now, bleh, which sounds weird to say,
00:05:19
Speaker
Okay. It just feels weird because I've known you guys since I was like 19, 20. So it's like weird. I don't know. But when I was 13 or 14 is when I really started to get more serious in the cosplay. And I had this moment essentially where my family was like, you have to choose between school and your love of anything creative. And so I was kind of forced into school.
00:05:47
Speaker
And I just dropped it completely, which really sucks because also Nepo Baby, my mom taught me how to sew because her mom taught her how to sew. So it's like a thing in our family. And I just loved it with the costumes and totally dropped it whenever I had to pursue.
00:06:03
Speaker
boring academics. And so then I met Parks through a other podcast that we're both fans of. And she essentially would just like, Pavlov me into cosplay and would just send me characters like, ooh, Wonder Woman, look at this design. Look how cool. Isn't that awesome? Ooh, look at this awesome anime character. Here's a video game character. And I finally said, fuck it, why not? I got back into it and went full force.
00:06:32
Speaker
Well, part of it was because you were drawing these characters first. I would be like, Hey, look at this. You're like, all right, I'm going to draw it. But then you stopped running out of like steam and time to draw it. So you're like, all right, well now I just have to become them. That's my only option left.
00:06:46
Speaker
Use your black canary like twice and like, well, that's really interesting parks because you said that you kind of fell out of love with the digital art space. And that is really interesting that Nebula you're so I mean, the way that I've seen your artwork has been so heavily through digital art. Do you guys both want to speak to like how that has like transformed the type of art form that you
00:07:12
Speaker
partake in today? Like does do you feel like you can flow between the both or is it kind of like, really, you've just like transitioned out of this two dimensional one and into this three dimensional one?
00:07:23
Speaker
I feel like I can't get my ideas down anymore in a 2D field. I try. I really do. I have to do patterning when I'm making stuff. So I still have to put my pen to paper no matter what. But it's really, really hard for me to make that get past the second step. Because when I'm working on costumes, when I'm doing patterns, it's always stops at a sketch. It always is going from there and there.
00:07:43
Speaker
I don't really have an interest in creating newer designs because I get more inspiration from the things I do, like watching shows, anime, things that are currently in front of me. I like to adapt those, but I don't like to make my own things from there. I don't want to design my own gajinkas, which are Pokemon or animals, whatever, brought to armor builds or something.
00:08:05
Speaker
I don't like to do that. It's never been my forte. So when it came to my 2D art, I would stop at like barebone designing and patterning and then leave it at that because I just felt like that next step was unnecessary to the point where I forgot color theory sometimes because it's like, I don't use this. I'm not, it's like math in school. I don't have to use this anymore. So I just forgot.
00:08:26
Speaker
I also feel that way about color theory, even though that was definitely... I still have to paint stuff. I still have to paint armor, but God forbid, I can't mix that. It's so funny how when you don't use it, you lose it, and how that's just the joke that all artists still don't understand color theory. And I kind of love it. I don't know. You do you.
00:08:50
Speaker
I don't have to see how it looks in this lighting because I have it in front of me. I can just go take it there. It's good. I know how to add a highlight on the rim. That's it. I don't need color theory in this. It's orange. It always looks orange. Don't come at me. You just are what you are, okay? I don't want to get into the color theory of it all. I think Bianca and I have PTSD about color theory because our mom would just scrutinize the colors and our aunts as well. And we love all of them.
00:09:20
Speaker
just scrutinize the colors that they would paint the walls and the house to the point where, oh, this pink has undertones. So if I paint this room, it's going to be this color, which is so valid. But I mean, the years that the women in our family have spent time analyzing color theory and paint colors is just, it's very intense experience.
00:09:40
Speaker
I also feel like I've learned so much, not from school and art classes, but truly just from the fucking painkillers, the swatches at Sherman Williams or Lowe's that adorned our walls. It's like, oh yeah, this is more useful than a fucking class I paid for.
00:10:02
Speaker
Totally, but honestly, bless mom, because she let me paint my childhood bedroom a hideous, intense emerald green, and she let me live my best life, so thanks mom. You weren't a luxury kid? I will. But I
Women in Cosplay: History and Challenges
00:10:16
Speaker
will tell you what, Bianca was a light blue and beige kid, so she had not a bedroom. Blue and brown, okay. I loved blue and brown though. It was not beige. I guess it was brown. It was full throttle blue and brown.
00:10:31
Speaker
Blue-brown striped room. Yeah, and it still is that way. Mama has not painted over it yet, so...
00:10:40
Speaker
you know maybe someday I'll go and I'll play around with some color theory and some swatches and just like what if I just show up and I leave them like I'll just paint swatches and then just leave them like that and then she can decide like a year later which one she wants to actually paint over the blue and brown stripes. Yeah I mean she's never gonna paint it. Never gonna paint it. I think my mom- This is gonna be a fun experiment.
00:11:03
Speaker
My mom wanted to paint part of her bathroom and she taped it off with the intention that she's like, I'm going to tape it this weekend and paint it next weekend. Do you want to guess how long that was taped? Two years. Do you like pick it when you go in there? I just avoided it. Pull it down. But also you guys mentioned the
00:11:24
Speaker
paint swatches now, like for Parks and Me, that's just become fabric swatches. I love that. I love you, Blue Moon Fabrics. I love your book. Like I literally have this huge book just next to my desk and wigs and wig swatches. I don't have it with me, but I have a coloring for artists so I can get the wig color right every single damn time. Wow. Honestly, that's super satisfying.
00:11:47
Speaker
It's so satisfying. You get to stretch it, you get to feel it, you get all the aspects of it, see how opaque the color is. See how the light catches on a specific weft. It's beautiful. Okay, we love this. Cosplay is a very tactile experience. Let's get into that a little bit more. Obviously, that is a big part of your lives and your relationship to the podcast and each other. This is my terrible segue.
00:12:13
Speaker
back to you guys from childhood paint swatches. Can you please talk a little bit also about just the history of cosplay and women's roles in formatting that and maybe how you guys kind of take that on your own in shaping cosplay in your craft? Baby, we have a whole panel episode over that. We did a live panel at FanX in Salt Lake City in 2022.
00:12:43
Speaker
And our whole panel was over women's role in conventions and cosplay because conventions and therefore cosplay would not exist without young women, like particularly late teens, early 20s, college age women that were heavily involved in the Star Trek fandom, which was kind of the main origin of modern fandom.
00:13:04
Speaker
And also shout out to mom of APT who is a Star Trek. She's a Trekkie? She's a Trekkie. We grew up with a Christmas tree, Star Trek ornament. I love her. Everything you tell me about your mom, I just love her a little more. It's the Italian moms. Parker is also of Italian descent. My mom's Italian though, I'm sorry. That's my dad. I'm sorry to ruin you. She's got the Italian energy.
00:13:32
Speaker
I can't help it. Well, I think it's interesting to already hear you guys talk about, you know, Nepo baby jokes aside that you had this relationship with sewing this kind of craft from the women in your family. And I'm just curious if you guys, it sounds like you have thought about that pretty critically and how that's kind of shaped your experience with like this kind of craft.
00:14:00
Speaker
More specifically, my aunt did dance fashion, which is technically on the line of borderline costumery, or costumery, because of whatever you need to do. She's doing it. But more specifically, through my mom, I would remember her, because I'm a child of a young woman. So she had me when she was 22. And so I was very young and watching her do this while she was still going out and having a life while having me. So she would come home and make her Halloween costumes.
00:14:29
Speaker
And she did like Miss Murderface from Metalocalypse at one point. And it was like, we're not sorry, Miss Macaroni Murderface. So she went and she made like 30 rows of macaroni. And my mom's a tall woman. So it was maybe like 40 inches each on each row of just macaroni.
00:14:46
Speaker
piece by piece by piece and then she made her own corset. She splattered all of it in blood and I just have very vivid memories of watching my mom do what I wasn't used to seeing because she used to make my Halloween costumes but it was stuff like a monkey or it's like Tinkerbell, whatever. I didn't really see the artistry too much in it because it was very simple and then I was watching her do this stuff without patterns or without really any guidance. She was just
00:15:09
Speaker
figuring out what she wanted to do and kind of just doing it. And so having her do that, she thought she was the one that taught me how to make my first bunny suit. That was the first cosplay I ever actually made myself was because she just knew how to make it up. And so it was one of my earliest memories of like my mom actually kind of towing the line into costume. And once I saw that for myself and I hit that Tumblr phase, I was like, Mom, can you show me how to do this? And she did really quickly because she was so excited for me to get into this to the same passion that she did.
00:15:39
Speaker
Well, and Parker, yours is also born of necessity because you're six foot four and getting pants or anything to fit is a nightmare. And so that's, it's not only the craft of the artistry, but the craft, the sake of the craft and for the use of it. So I feel like you have a very unique perspective on it. That's kind of where the line crosses those. Like I was already sewing leggings for myself. I was already making like
00:16:04
Speaker
tank tops, the bare minimum things I needed or refitting my jeans. I was already doing that and I didn't see it as anything more. Like in Home Ec, we had to learn how to make a pillowcase. I knew how to sew. I didn't have to be taught how to do that. I didn't know how to, I knew how to make a damn backpack. Like it wasn't anything new being introduced to me. I didn't know what else to do with from there because it was all so simple. So when I saw her doing this, I was like, okay, I actually can take this a step up more.
00:16:29
Speaker
And that was kind of what made me more interested because when I was making my pants, I didn't care. I was just doing what I needed to do. It wasn't really a hobby for me. I didn't consider it one like I do with like cooking or my art or whatever. It was just, I need pants this week. There's a hole in these. Gotta do it. Whatever. Versus like, I want to make a huge doublet coat and whatever, figure it out from there. I don't know. I just do it now. It's a lot different for a creative process than out of necessity for me.
00:16:57
Speaker
I just want to say I so admire that as a fellow tall girl. I'm not as tall as you five 11. But like, not in costume, like just quote unquote normal everyday clothes, the fact that you're, you have to build this out of necessity is also just something that I think is really interesting in terms of kind of gender roles and how
00:17:14
Speaker
people in general just clothe themselves and how we present ourselves, like how tall women in general are able to go out into different spaces because clothes don't fit us ever. But then on top of that, having this other layer of this other kind of presentation with cosplay, I think is really interesting.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah. And, um, I come from a nursing background. I was going to nursing school prior to COVID and then I had an accident like halfway through 2019. And so like the last four months between 2019 and 2020, where it was still normal, I was having to shift gears completely. So I dropped all of my nursing school, everything. And I was moving into fashion design for disabled people because I was still working in that field. I worked in neuro rehab. So I was seeing people who were.
00:18:00
Speaker
disabled from strokes or brain injuries or who had a colonoscopy bags and didn't know how to adapt with those. And so I started to try to move my focus. This is before I was like fully into cosplay again. I was still doing it, but I didn't take myself seriously. I was just wearing my stuff to conventions only. I wasn't a model. I wasn't doing anything on my own. I was just kind of existing. But I was trying to move that focus into fashion because cosplay and fashion are almost identical to each other. It's just a matter of where inspiration lies, whatever.
00:18:29
Speaker
talk for way later, it's so easy to put those two side by side. But I wanted to know how I could adapt these things for other people and make them accessible and make them more functional because
00:18:39
Speaker
The things we have now can cost upwards of 100 to $200 just for a pair of pants that I can unzip so I can wear a catheter bag, whatever. It was just so difficult to find that breach. And that's what I was studying for a bit before COVID happened and then whatever. And because of school and COVID not meshing well, because everything just shut down, I had to kind of focus more on myself. And that even meant adapting for me and how I can make my things work better for me with my conditions and whatever. And I've been still working side by side to make those things happen.
00:19:09
Speaker
Can the both of you elaborate a little bit more on just how cosplay and the expression that you get from any type of clothing breaks those regular norms aside from the kind of like quote unquote nerd culture? Well, I would say that cosplay is
00:19:27
Speaker
in essence, a form of drag. And originally it went by the term masquerade. So it was this idea of performative take on this other face for entertainment, but also for like
00:19:41
Speaker
the mingling aspect and for the interacting aspect. And I hear a lot, like, I'm sure any any AFAB person could relate to an older woman in their life saying, Oh, well, I can't wear X, Y or Z, because it's just not built for my body.
00:19:59
Speaker
And that mindset is fucked because clothes are built to go on the body. The body is not built to wear the clothes. And whenever you switch your mindset and take it into that level, it becomes so much more of an ownership and a performance aspect of like, fuck you, I'm going to take this over. I'm going to take it back.
00:20:21
Speaker
And I think that moving in that direction of the creative side and seeing what that means, not only for yourself, but for those around you and not only for the necessity of it, but for the ownership of the necessity of it. That's kind of what really draws people into it, or at least what draws me into it. Cause I had horrible, horrible body dysmorphia whenever I first started cosplaying again in 2021.
00:20:47
Speaker
And Crossplay itself, even though I was taking on these other character forms, helped me become more comfortable in my own skin and helped me feel proud to be who I was because of the community around it and the people that were also involved saying, like, you made that, that's incredible, and it looks good on you.
00:21:08
Speaker
this is such a weird comparison. But do you remember the episode of That's So Raven, where she makes the green spring dress and they're like, we want your dress but you can't model it? Yeah, I haven't been rewatching That's So Raven, like the past like
00:21:22
Speaker
three weeks. Just I just have it on in the background. I know exactly what you're talking about. And that she at the end, she's like, No, screw you. And she walks the runway wearing her own dress because she's shorter. She's a little fuller sized than the models. And that's her owning it. But the key part is at the very end, she's standing next to the model that is also wearing the dress.
00:21:45
Speaker
And like, it doesn't fucking matter who's in it because it matters that you put the passion into making it and that you're sharing it with the world. Oh my god, you know what I've been thinking? That's so Raven is a fucking work of art. Like I'm rewatching it like every episode. I'm like, oh my god. And also Raven, a fucking star. That woman can act to no end. I love her.
00:22:11
Speaker
she's in constant, you know, like, disguises. She's always doing like her different voices. And then at the end of every episode, I learned something. There's a positive message behind it every time. I'm like, watching this as an adult. But like, when I was a kid, I was just like, Oh, like, ha ha, this is funny, but as an adult, I'm like, laughing my ass off in one scene by the end. I'm like, wow, that was like a really moving episode. Sorry.
00:22:36
Speaker
But see, I can just pull that out of nowhere and then that can encompass the entirety of someone's experience with cosplay or costuming or traditional womanly craft of sewing or whatever that you want to do with needlepoint or embroidery that I can just lump all that in and be like, you know this one fucking episode of That's So Raven? That's exactly what it feels like. That's the positive side.
00:23:02
Speaker
Okay, so Nebula, I do want to follow up on kind of the inclusivity after Bianca's Raven fandom tangent, which we do love. But I think you kind of represented it like a little bit more of like a complex and individualistic relationship that people have with cosplay. And it does have this really
00:23:22
Speaker
long history from traditional roots to where it is now in kind of a modern setting. But we do have some questions for today's episode where we kind of do want to talk about the kind of comic culture of it all. And it's kind of difficult to speak for an entire community, which we're obviously not asking you and Parks to do. But I guess I am curious about
00:23:46
Speaker
the cosplay culture and if we do feel like it is particularly inclusive or the way that kind of the comic Marvel industry is kind of headed, I don't know. This is kind of like a lump sum question, but I'm just kind of curious about if we feel like there's hope for like women and other people in cosplay or like, what are we feeling is going on? Because here's what I'm going to say. Bianca's next question for you is about She-Hulk.
00:24:13
Speaker
Just when I think there's kind of progress. I only brought you on here so that we could vent about this because I can't talk to... I love Andrew so much, but I cannot talk to another man. It's just like just when we think that there's progress, there's this very...
00:24:29
Speaker
backwards, ooh, I'm going to present to you this feminist icon that's actually not it. And just tell me your thoughts. Just go for it. Before Parker jumps in, because I know she has so many feelings. I was going to say one thing. I know you have so many feelings.
00:24:48
Speaker
I have a lot of feelings, which is why that was a terrible way to ask you guys a question. So you're good. I'm going to add a little bit of perspective and say, unfortunately, I've cosplayed both DC and Marvel, and the most harassment I've ever received from men is in those costumes. They've never treated me as an equal despite making my costumes myself and
00:25:09
Speaker
I look good in them, whatever, I've never received more harassment in my life from those costumes because I'm in those communities do not, they don't see it as work. You can compare me to an Iron Man cosplayer. We could have each spent $500 on our costumes, 200 hours each, same amount of work. It just looks different, but because I'm a woman and it's not cooler, it's not held to the same respect.
00:25:31
Speaker
And every other aspect of cosplay, I'm good. People respect what I do. They like what I do. They respect my work, but because it's like your supergirl has the wrong haircut. Like what version are you talking about? Because I'm looking right at the comic. I match one for one, but for some reason it matters to you.
00:25:48
Speaker
What is this conversation we're having? And it's always like that. Every time I post Scarlet Witch, people tell me that my wig is the wrong color. When it's not, they just don't read a comic book. Yeah, I guess that's where I really honed in on what Nebula was saying too, just kind of about body dysmorphia and how cosplay is this self-expression. And that can be a really positive experience, but also when it's also so heavily scrutinized because of the body and the gender that you choose to identify as and exist in.
00:26:17
Speaker
like, things just get scrutinized differently. And the way that I see, like, women in comics be displayed on like an entertainment level, because I'm not in like the underground scene of cosplay, even though, you know, definitely invite me to your next shindig, because it sounds like a hoot. But like, I don't know, this is the this is what I consume. And I don't have this other intersection. So sometimes they feel a little hopeless.
00:26:40
Speaker
Well, on a more clear level, you'll see like in high fashion where like they did the invisible dresses. If you guys saw that where like the dresses weren't on their body, people were criticizing that because they couldn't understand that it was an art form and they wanted to criticize the model's bodies and make it about things that were not about the show. And that happens a lot when it comes to cosplay because separate from fashion, you're introducing a known character into the mix or a known fandom or a known concept.
00:27:05
Speaker
So, when I'm not the Supergirl that they see in their own head, or if I'm not the one that looks like the one on The CW show, it's a problem for them that they bring to me. They take it personally because you're not their Supergirl. Exactly. It's like another level of a pedestal to be put on. You're not asking to be. It's just the way that people can view you that you have to be okay with when you do it.
00:27:30
Speaker
There's, in reality, there's two answers to your question because the answer that I want to say is if you were talking only to cosplayers, to fellow cosplayers interacting with fellow cosplayers, the answer is yes, we are becoming so much more inclusive. We are moving so much farther forward. There are so many plus size cosplayers and models that are being brought on as judges for conventions.
00:27:58
Speaker
invited as cosplay guests and being paid for their work and their appearances. There's artists that are designing all these really cool art nouveau inspired redesigns of beloved characters. And then other people are taking those designs with permission and with licensing and bringing them to life in costumes. And there's this sharing of creativity amongst mostly women, I would point out.
00:28:25
Speaker
And then in more of the masculine side, it's a lot of like armor building and film smithing and working with more tangible pieces of a costume, less the seamstress side and more the like technical stuff of how can I put all these LED lights into this sword and how can I build that, which is just as impressive and just as cool. But it's not quite as shared as a community level and it's still kind of guarded as their own like industry secrets, which is changing.
00:28:55
Speaker
But that's, again, still just at the cosplayers interacting with other cosplayers level. If you want to take it as a whole, it's just people who are looking in on cosplay, it's not inclusive, much to Parker's point. It's people who still ogle us when we're walking around, even in a convention space.
00:29:15
Speaker
Even when we're all there together to appreciate this thing, non cosplayers will comment on your costumes. They will just disregard the fact that you're human and will just absorb you as the character. And it's kind of something that comes with the territory of fandom. As a whole, fandom's doing better about it than they did like 15, 20 years ago, but it's still not where it needs to be. And it's not at the level that other creators are treating other creators.
00:29:44
Speaker
I can say last two years ago, it wasn't that bad. I hate to keep bringing up fucking COVID, but when you have a thing that relies solely on live events, get a little bit muddy because of live events not happening, it's going to change. And so a lot of people who were seeing things like TikTok and Instagram that were pushing old convention life and cosplay, you have these people who learned about it during that time and then wanted to come to these things and learn about them.
00:30:09
Speaker
but they don't have convention etiquette because they've never been to one before and no one was there to teach them and it's not our responsibility as the people they're harassing to teach them that but unfortunately we have to be because it's like who else is going to in some regards tell them that this behavior isn't okay when they're actively like
00:30:26
Speaker
Sexualizing me someone told them they didn't want to picture with her until they could find Nami because they were talking to us like we were characters Not like people which was very it's odd It's really odd because it's when you go and have these people who are like it's obviously someone's dad He doesn't know what the hell is going on. He wants to take a picture of you because you're sexy
00:30:45
Speaker
But he'll treat you like you're just a sexy object because he doesn't know what's going on. And you just kind of have to accept it at some point when it comes to dealing with it. And honestly, it's a huge mental load. But the payoff that you get from other cosplayers who recognize your effort
00:31:00
Speaker
makes it so much worth it because someone who also sewed their entire costume and understands the stress of having to glue wigs together and be up until 3 a.m., they're going to understand what's on my person than anyone else would. And so having that commitment and community is what makes it so nice and what makes such an amazing hobby. You just have to deal with the pushback from everybody else.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, Parks, thank you for elaborating on that, because that was going to be my kind of follow up to this perspective in terms of the duality in the relationship with cosplay. Because how do you keep going when you're constantly being harassed or fetishized? And particularly not just in a convention setting, but also on the internet, because you guys do have a public platform, and you do promote yourself in cosplay. So it's good to know that you have your people and you have your community. But just like anything, man, is like museum etiquette. Don't touch the art, bitches.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, I unfortunately don't have the luxury. Luckily, I started dating a dude who's also into cosplay, so balanced out. But I used to have to always have someone who's either not in cosplay or is a dude in cosplay who is always there. Last year at the same convention, I got hugged 15 times.
00:32:09
Speaker
Cause no matter if I said no, if they, some of them would like offer me their hand and a handshake is fine. I can do a handshake, but then they would pull me in before I can rely or like react. So I was hugged 15 times without my consent because it was something that was just forced upon me. People would grab me while I was saying no. And it's just whatever.
00:32:27
Speaker
But having, unfortunately, having a man there to be like, hey, whoa, dude, back off, is how I have to protect myself. And it's not fair, and it's not from other cosplayers that this is happening, unfortunately, not to say that cosplayers can't be predatory, but they understand a little bit more what it's like to be put into that place where I feel, where it makes me feel small. And honestly, after conventions, you can't see me for a week. I am not anywhere to be seen. I do not exist. I am in a box because I'm showing myself off. Yeah.
00:32:56
Speaker
Don't look at me. Don't message me. I'll talk to you when I feel alive again.
Safety and Harassment at Conventions
00:33:00
Speaker
What are the conventions doing to create a more safe experience, or are they doing anything? Within the last five years, they started putting down more like cosplay is not consent signs, which very clearly bullet point and outlined what you cannot do to cosplayers. Do not touch them. Do not take photos with them without their consent, or from afar, anti-bullying stuff like that.
00:33:26
Speaker
don't touch their props, don't touch their stuff. I've seen people smack people's wings as they're walking past and break them in half. I've had that happen to me where they ripped my ball gown once because they were stepping on me because they were just being inconsiderate. I was not in the way. Conventions are trying to do better about it now because certain people's attitudes and behaviors are being more brought to the conventions themselves. So certain people who are known to be predatory or abusive or toxic in some regard.
00:33:54
Speaker
they're now being completely barred because it's more acceptable to reach out to us on social media and be like, hey, this guy is notorious for jumping on people at conventions and throwing furniture out windows. Can we not have him here? And they'll revoke his badge. Also on their social media, they're doing a little more like when it's building up to the convention, they'll post more of promotional photos with class players from previous years or with guests
00:34:21
Speaker
with a sign or with some sort of caption of like cosplay is not consent, always ask for permission. Here's etiquette. They have usually they have Q and A's on their website of like what is appropriate and what's expected. And if someone like a security guard, because they do have armed security guards at most conventions now, if a security guard sees you or if con staff sees you,
00:34:44
Speaker
acting up, they will pull you off the floor. It'll take a little bit to get to that point, but they will pull you off the floor. It is more strict now. Luckily, it's a lot easier to report that before because beforehand, when I was like 15 at a con by myself, and someone would do something to me, I just had to deal with it sometimes because
00:35:02
Speaker
I would go to convention hall and because it's all con halls, um, you'll have their own convention staff, but then you'll also just have the convention hall staff convention hall staff. You should just twiddle their thumbs and not do anything unless like an actual danger was happening. So if I say someone groped me, they're like, well, do you know what he looks like? And I would tell them to be like, well, we'll see if we see him. And then they don't. Luckily it's taken seriously a lot more now because unfortunately it was like things happening in the news. It's a more obvious threat that we have to listen when people are
00:35:31
Speaker
talking about abuse or in any regard of someone being dangerous in a public setting. I'm curious if you guys can speak to the ratio not to put things in a binary but like what is the ratio of like men to women or female identifying people to male identifying people at a convention like this or just kind of in the cosplay
00:35:52
Speaker
space in general, because I feel like this is such a kind of like women centric issue. Again, not that like male identifying people can't be victims of assault or anything like that. But one, just thinking about the kind of like traditional associations of sewing and the craft of costuming and the craft, quote unquote, craft and art form of of building these costumes and that type of performance that you're putting on and all the work that goes into it versus kind of like this
00:36:22
Speaker
male perceptive of like other types of art forms. Is that like a kind of like split division or is it really happening across the board just in in or around these spaces in general?
00:36:37
Speaker
men have the luxury use because a lot of their build, the craft versus women, it's a lot more makeup focus, you're not going to see too many like dudes doing their makeup every day, it's becoming more now, of course. But a lot of the time, like a few years ago, it was a lot of like Warhammer, World of Warcraft, Halo builds where they're wearing masks,
00:36:57
Speaker
or helmets or they're like in big things, you can't see them. It's a lot more of an anonymous craft to them because they have all of this armor on top of them. You can't see eye to eye with who you're talking to or who you can actually harass. So I don't want to say men don't get harassed in that regard, but a long time ago, they were just doing these big builds only and weren't really being like,
00:37:20
Speaker
There's nothing to really talk to. They only see them as the character because they're in these huge, I've seen people in big gorilla suits and no one talks to them because they can't hear us. They can't talk to us. They're in there versus women who are very focused always. That's starting to change now. My boyfriend, I've seen firsthand him bit harassed in conventions because he's also a dude and he's out there. You have to tell the Sanji Yukata
00:37:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, when we were at Akon in Texas last year, I made him a very very nice Yukata because one of the characters from One Piece wears one and everything was traditional. I did the hair bun traditionally.
00:37:56
Speaker
Um, his OB was done traditionally. Um, I can't think of what it's called right now, but the wraps that wrap up your sleeve, so they're not in the way, all of it was done traditionally. He's wearing the sandals, everything. The real wood sandals that like the rice patty sandals that have the little thingies on them. And she slaved over this fucking costume and it looked amazing. I finished it in three days, but whatever.
00:38:17
Speaker
We were wearing it and he looked completely traditional. Everything was right, except this character does a lot of high kicks. So sometimes while he was getting into the pose, not while he was in the pose, while he was getting into it, you could see a sliver of his gray shorts underneath because he didn't want to have his dick and balls out. But there were some dudes who were not in cosplay. They were not with anyone who was in cosplay at this shoot. I was just a super girl, so they didn't see me as like a part of this. So they were just talking in front of me like I wasn't there.
00:38:47
Speaker
But one of the dudes leans over to the other, he's like, why is he even wearing the costume if he's not gonna commit? Cuz he's wearing shorts. They wanted him to wear the wrapped underwear that like- Like a sumo loincloth. They were mad that he wasn't totally committed in wearing this weird white linen adult diaper. So my boyfriend's been harassed as a male cosplayer, but not by women. It's been by other men.
00:39:14
Speaker
And it's again, that criticism of you're not the character in my head, therefore you're doing it wrong. And I am allowed to speak on that. I have had other female cosplayers use him as props, which wasn't awesome. I've had to step in between of like, Whoa, hey, just because he's this character, because one of the characters in notoriously he cosplays is a simp. So he'll like
00:39:36
Speaker
whatever, he'll get on his hands and he's for characters, blah, blah, blah. But he doesn't do that for people he doesn't know. And it makes him uncomfortable, especially because he'll be like, matching costumes with me. And they'll be like, Hey, will you step away from her and do this with me? And it's never like that. It's always just like, I don't know. It's a weirdly possessive kind of deal. They're like, I see this character, why wait, I need you to conform to that.
00:39:59
Speaker
So it can be from both sides when it comes to harassment and being viewed as an object and treated as such. Cosplay itself is kind of a more feminine and queer dominated space. You'll mostly see like maybe 65% queer people and women versus like men or men present or yeah, presenting men either way. In terms of like what the main con will be in terms of cosplay scene,
00:40:29
Speaker
Sometimes if you go to a comic con where it's more focused on real life stuff, you'll change that number, but more focused on games or anime or just general convention cons, not pop cons, you'll find it. I don't know.
00:40:44
Speaker
It's hard to describe the layers of a convention sometimes. I hadn't even really put it put two and two together until you said something parks but with the masks in general or with the helmets when male cosplayers are doing something that's a little bit more fabric based and less like armor based. I've also noticed a heavier influx of Spider-Man or Deadpool or other characters that you
00:41:09
Speaker
just get a cloth mask that you get to pull over your head. And it is that same anonymity concept where maybe they can interact with you a little bit more, but it's almost like a pass that some cosplayers might take to that level, most notably Deadpool cosplayers, unfortunately, that take things just way too out there and not appropriate necessarily for the setting where they'll want to get way too into the character and make a joke
00:41:37
Speaker
or do some stupid pose and you're like, bro, I'm just trying to talk to other people about games and buy a charm from this artist over here. I don't give a shit about whatever fantasy thing you've got going on. And that's where you have to draw the line, at least in person when it comes to dealing with like other more anonymity-based characters and cosplayers. They feel like there's no consequence. So they act like it's a nightmare dealing with some of them. And we're not saying this for everyone. My friends cosplay Deadpool, but they also know how to act like normal people.
00:42:08
Speaker
So it just seems like all around there needs to be some etiquette courses. We're getting there, but it's taking a damn minute. But it's always the bitches that aren't in cosplay that want to comment on the cosplay. Build one and then talk to me about it. Isn't that always the way it goes? Always a critic, never an artist.
00:42:27
Speaker
uh speaking of being a critic here uh someone who doesn't read comic books but watched a disney plus television show about one um i would like to be very critical yes
00:42:45
Speaker
on the Disney Plus She-Hulk show. And like I said, I've only really talked to Gianna and my boyfriend about it. So Nebula, I just really want to hear your thoughts at
Representation in Media: Critiques and Praises
00:43:00
Speaker
the end of the day. Yes. And I just want to know if you feel the same way that I do. Or am I being that critic from the outside who's being way too harsh?
00:43:08
Speaker
I've waited two months to talk to you about this. So it's been like, you said in thoughts and fears, like you're bursting at the seams and that's where I'm at now. Because I see both sides where in terms of commitment to the comics, which is what a lot of more male viewers had criticism of the show with they're like, it's not comic accurate, they're fucking it up. One of the most prolific She-Hulk comic authors
00:43:36
Speaker
is on record stating that She-Hulk is so accurate to the comics in terms of characterization, how they wanted to tie in other characters, the plot development, and how her character would take on these kinds of issues.
00:43:53
Speaker
and overall struggles. But I would also like to point out there's a level of that that I did appreciate that they're like, we know, like you said in Thoughts and Fears, we know it's fucked up and we're going to commit to it. And I'm hoping, my hope is that we'll now echo
00:44:16
Speaker
because she looks originally from the 80s, she's a very 80s inspired character, the hair, the design, everything super 80s. My hope is that now moving forward with the character, once you've laid the groundwork, we'll move into modern comics, and modern comics are becoming
00:44:31
Speaker
much more diverse when it comes to body types, abilities, certain issues that different characters are tackling. The biggest issue for a woman that's a superhero is no longer pregnancy. Looking at you, Stephanie Brown, 1990s. Fuck you.
00:44:50
Speaker
It's a Batman thing. It's the Batgirl, she gets pregnant, that becomes the whole issue. And then they're like, okay, goodbye. Oh, is that why they canceled Batgirl? Like, that must be the reason, right? Oh, obviously, it has to be the reason that she can't be Batgirl anymore and get rid of her.
00:45:06
Speaker
But now it's like there's so many more modern comics that are taking on the issue of gender identity and navigating society as a mutant to use the the marvel term or as
00:45:21
Speaker
this metaphor for someone being different. And it's historically used really poorly. And I feel like the Disney Plus show for She-Hulk kind of took it in a tongue-in-cheek direction for about half of it. And then for the other half, we're like, okay, but we are going to take part of it seriously. Because there were moments that I really hated and there were moments that I really loved.
00:45:45
Speaker
Like, Bianca and I did not get through the first half. So maybe that's where our issue. No, I finished the whole thing. You watched the show? Okay. Gianna did not get through the first half. Oh, no, I was I was full on prepared to see this through because if I was going to talk so much shit about it, I didn't go as far to read the comics. But like, no, I was gonna finish that and keep going.
00:46:10
Speaker
Well, now I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the ending because personally, I thought if you take the ending at face value, which also like spoilers if you want to hop out now, if you haven't seen it, get your shit together.
00:46:26
Speaker
If you want to take it at face value and say like, this is her first reaction to something that is very serious and is a very real threat like revenge porn for young women, especially in a very modern technological age, then yeah, I understand that that was a
00:46:44
Speaker
interesting and unique writing choice to articulate women's rage when it comes to the violation of their consent and their body in that regard and also because she's a professional woman and so now that could destroy her career potentially. I get it, it's topical, it's feminist, whatever. There's also the level of, I'm so fucking sick of looking at this, can you just give me something else? And that's kind of where I landed, I was in between.
00:47:11
Speaker
Think at the end of the day. Well, I don't know. I just I every episode I was like ripping it to shreds like I guess I just don't I'm tired of seeing women be so normal about those things and Like she gets attacked in the alleyway and like she just like doesn't do anything about it Like she's just like is like, oh, yeah, like oh like okay like I'll just like be you up and you'll run away and like see you later and then at the end I
00:47:40
Speaker
She's a fucking hulk. Like, I didn't see that bitch get rageful once. Okay, like, oh, she's a pro. I feel like for me, it was, it was like that trick, right? Where you're like, Oh, no, she's being like a strong woman where she's just like, you know what, like shutting it down, putting it out of her mind, like not to but like, I want to see her get mad. I want to see her beat some people up, because she's a hulk and can do that. And she got attacked in an alley. And then
00:48:10
Speaker
the whole revenge porn situation. Like she did not get mad enough. And she has a right to be mad about all these things that are happening to her. And so I feel like it was a trick. And I'm the bad feminist for being like, I want to see her beat people up because that's like an anti feminist thing to say is like women should be more rageful. Like so it's like making then the show is like having like psychological effects on you. Like, oh my god, like,
00:48:39
Speaker
I'm a bad woman. This lady should go like kill some people. I felt that way too in terms of the first half of the episodes or the show.
00:48:49
Speaker
and why I couldn't get through it. It just felt like the stereotype of women having to do everything. She has to be a lawyer, she has to be Hulk. And I was like, God, I don't want her to not be a lawyer, but kind of. In that episode where the guy, her colleague or whatever, who she doesn't get along with, they literally are playing fucking mind tricks on all the women watching this. I'm like a conspiracy theorist right now.
00:49:12
Speaker
they are like they she makes that man money at the end of his case she it's like oh uh i just took you down by like or by saying all this stuff and she feels gratification he made money because he won the case
00:49:32
Speaker
She didn't have to fucking do any of that. She didn't have to show up for him in court. Why should she have to go there and be the good woman who proves that he's a bad guy, but then he wins money in the end? What is that? How was no one
00:49:52
Speaker
talking about how this is problematic and then I'm crazy. You're not crazy. I haven't watched She-Hulk because I'm very, very, very fucking tired of the MCU and how they handle women. I do not like how they handled Thor, the last one, Love and Thunder was bad.
00:50:12
Speaker
I did not like what they did to Scarlet Witch, how it was like, she's crazy for having emotions. God, hated that. I don't give a fuck about Dr. Strange's third eye. So I did not watch She-Hulk. First, from a costing perspective, why the fuck is she CGI green? And why is it like a baby poop color? Could we have not done anything else here?
00:50:31
Speaker
We have you guys have state of the art costume work. Why is she CGI poop green? Um, um, is this Shrek? Honestly? For real? Honestly? Is it 2001? I don't know. Honestly. I don't know. Shrek kind of did it better, babe. Shrek is a masterpiece. Don't even.
00:50:47
Speaker
No, you're not wrong. That's what they gave it. That's the effort. I hated She-Hulk but not in a white man Marvel fan hate She-Hulk way where they don't like that She-Hulk is a woman even though they
00:51:04
Speaker
Since the 80s, she's been a woman. It's not a new thing. I hated it because A, she looks bad. I hated the CGI fake muscles. There's no reason you couldn't just hire a big woman to do that. No reason. Why did we do that? Why is the costume look like shit? Her hair isn't green in some parts. You can tell they didn't do that work properly. Ugly, ugly show. I didn't want to watch it, but
00:51:28
Speaker
Compared to the comics, She-Hulk has always been very, very, very emotionally controlled compared to actual Hulk. And that was the part that was like, oh, interesting sides to the same coin if they have the same problem. She handles it better. But that doesn't mean she's always been like,
00:51:45
Speaker
better than other people or she's been better than everybody else. She's always been emotionally intense in the opposite direction of her calm was why she was able to just like tear through people still. She was still doing that. So when the series was like, actually, she's just going to roll it off. She's better than them. No big deal. It's infuriating. Right. Why can Hulk smash? And she's just like, nah.
00:52:14
Speaker
It's okay, I'm gonna be the bigger person. The only thing that smashed me she did was fucking other dudes. I want her to smash me! Like why is she with a man? Okay, so we have found the core root of our issue here.
00:52:31
Speaker
as a plot device to introduce male characters. That's what they did. That's never been her in the comics. She goes, she does her sexy lawyer job where she talks to the audience the whole time because she was able to break the fourth wall before Deadpool. Anyways, she would do that. She would show up to her sexy job. She'd go home, do her jazzercise. She would freak out and go be some dudes. That's how it works. We don't have this weird dude we're bringing in to fuck on the screen. Why are we doing that?
00:52:56
Speaker
She didn't need that, that doesn't make her a character. Oh, here's her giving her feminist rants a hulk about how she's so strong and was so strong before this and she'll be strong after. Okay, we get it. Like this is so self-serving because it's written by a man who's like, look guys, we get it now.
00:53:16
Speaker
Like, no, you don't. That's what that's what else is disappointing because a lot of the people behind She-Hope were women. I was like, what the fuck are you guys doing? But then at the end, when the whole fucking story is just about a robot Kevin Bayi, this isn't such an afterthought. Like, I'm sorry, this is poor Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow movie, like summed up in like the end episode.
00:53:41
Speaker
They use this whole thing for a fucking Kevin Feige robot to be like, the X-Men are coming. Like this show sucked, but look what you're getting. That's why I stop watching every other fucking show, honestly. Ms. Marvel, same thing. I didn't touch Ms. Marvel. It's a fucking trade wreck. I hate it.
00:53:57
Speaker
But like, Loki, hey, let's add in some other dude that the series is not about. And then Falcon and Winter Soldier, that's the same thing. I don't know what it is about Marvel's TV universe where they're like, all right, eight episodes. One through seven is about this character. Episode eight, ooh, that will be a movie in three years.
00:54:20
Speaker
I will say I do. I do love Loki and I did really enjoy Wandavision. I loved them until the last damn episodes. For the film history aspect, but like I've said on APT before, it is still about a woman and her obsession with domesticity.
00:54:41
Speaker
Again, they're fucking tricking your minds. Oh, no, look, like it's so cool. We're doing something so innovative, but they're like, ooh, we're going to keep her in the house wanting babies. Well, I'm a softy for romance, but I still I didn't give a shit about her kids plot. I really didn't. And she's not even like that of the fucking comics, which pisses me off. Fuck no. Like she she teams up with Magneto at one point. Magneto's whole thing is that everybody looks at him like a terrorist. And so then she's aligned with this like terrorist ideal.
00:55:10
Speaker
And that's what's intense about her is because she has the power to fucking tear apart the universe. And then she aligns with that. And there is still the kids thing, but like she's Jewish in the series because we had to make her a fake race.
00:55:23
Speaker
Yeah, she's Jewish. Also, well, her accent fades in and out a lot. Sometimes it is. Yeah. Where are you from? They made her from a cool part of Russia, a fake place. They even reference it in WandaVision and call her a fortune teller when that's not what she is. She is Jewish in the comics. She's Romani and Jewish. She's a Romani Jewish, and they're like,
00:55:50
Speaker
Two historically horribly represented people for God knows whatever reason and now we're like, no, just gonna take it a roadway. We didn't have to make it that way. We could have just kept that part. Elizabeth Olsen can play a Jewish person. It's okay.
00:56:10
Speaker
I will say I feel a lot better thinking. What are some fandames approved pieces of content for the art pop tarts? Honestly, it feels like...
00:56:24
Speaker
Let's get into it. Let's do it. I feel like we need some happy, happy content. Have you two started watching The Last of Us since it's come out in the last week? Only the first episode. I'm behind. Yes, Gianna's zero episodes, but I'm kind of over all the Zaddy Daddy content. I don't know how we feel about
00:56:48
Speaker
No, still watch it. I promise, just watch it. I was simping for Pedro and Kingsman too, so this is nothing. Gianna, I will say also my best girlfriend has been like on a real Pedro train here, but I watched the first episode and I was like, oh my god.
00:57:05
Speaker
Joel Miller was already fine as hell and then they casted Pedro Pascal. Damn! He's a silver fox in the game and they're like let's just up it up a little bit and they put more highlights in like oh my god. In that first episode like that scene where he's I mean I don't want to spoil it for anyone but you you every woman or a person attracted to Pedro Pascal will understand. It's like um
00:57:31
Speaker
I compared a Gianna to Ewan McGregor and Moulin Rouge whenever he's like crying over Nicole Kidman at the end. It's literally exactly that. We were like, oh, my entire life has changed and my heart is being out. A soft, emotional man. An emotionally hard man. Everyone got so obsessed with Pedro with the Mandalorian and I was like, eh, fucking whatever. Like it's Mando, it's fine. He's an attractive man, but it's still like the, and then I saw
00:57:59
Speaker
The first two episodes of The Last of Us was like, oh shit, I get it. He's so good. But the story as a whole is phenomenally told. Found family to the max. It takes place in the apocalypse. It's not about the apocalypse.
00:58:18
Speaker
It's about humanity. The real apocalypse is people. It's about how humans both tear each other apart and band together to continue surviving in the only way they know how. And it's done very artfully. There's even a really intense scene in the second to last episode that I was worried was going to be like, oh, do I have to turn this off whenever my friend was telling me about the plot of it.
00:58:44
Speaker
but it's done so tastefully and so well in a way that everything is just implied enough. You don't have to see it. You don't have to see how gruesome someone can be. You can just hear a few lines and see the slight movement of their body as to what they might do. And the acting is what really captures that, but it makes it to where you understand what's going on without having to see the gruesome Game of Thrones bullshit. Oh, Sid, I was literally everything you were just saying. I was like,
00:59:14
Speaker
just reminded me of all of our Game of Thrones content and House of the Dragon how
00:59:20
Speaker
they just thought that they went there in such an artistic and grotesque way and it was horrific and triggering. So it's nice to have a positive review on a video game turned movie because I feel like, I don't know, you guys are kind of the experts on this in terms of other video games gone movies hasn't been so great. So Chris Pratt Mario is happening so we can only say so much. The
00:59:47
Speaker
40% Italian in me is really pissed off about that. Oh my God. Charlie Day is great, but God damn, if I have to hear his stupid like, Yahoo again, lose it. Unacceptable. But video games give you a lot more time with a character. It's kind of like reading a book in comparison, but I've also read some terrible female-led books. Have you guys read The Gracier? That was a fucking shit show. That book was horrifically bad.
01:00:13
Speaker
Um, when I read it, I sent Neb like three hours worth of just nonstop DMS. Like why the fuck did she do that? Because it's supposed to be about sisterhood and it's not. Um, so don't recommend that one. That's not a fan name's improved book, but there are certain games where I feel like I can have more time with the characters to actually go through it. Or there is certain games where they're not female led, but most of the like,
01:00:36
Speaker
whole cast is or it's about female expression. Like right now I'm playing persona five. And one of the opening things persona as a game series is about emotion and learning about yourself because it's called persona.
01:00:48
Speaker
and you have these things that are inside of you that are your personas and they're your reflection of like whatever the game's theme. So persona five is about rebellion. So your persona is your act of rebellion as like a young teenage person. And so your first character you meet is named Anne and she's a victim of a teacher who is oppressive and using her to try to like, he's gross, he's a pedophile. But it's handled extremely well because you're dealing with Anne's character,
01:01:16
Speaker
you're supporting her through it and you're her best friend and confidant through it. And then you move on and you meet other girls who are oppressed and done the same thing. But it's not done as like torture porn because you're genuinely learning as their friends. So any of the Persona series I would highly recommend for that reason because once you get to learn and give story to this, there's so much that you can do in games that you couldn't really do or people weren't recognizing it if you're not a gamer.
Recommendations: Games, Comics, and Movies
01:01:40
Speaker
Like if you don't know to play all at Kingdom Hearts, one through like seven plus the mobile games,
01:01:45
Speaker
You won't know that like the real friendship of what's in it or the compare. Don't call me out like this. Nebula. I just think a lot more people should be very open to game storytelling, especially now that we've had success from The Last of Us to kind of be that like step in the door of just like, hey,
01:02:05
Speaker
There are good things over there that you guys are looking at just like do it. So I think a lot of games are doing better than comics and everything especially because a lot more indie games are becoming popular and those are made by women owned or queer studios. Highly recommend those like if you're not really a gamer but you want to play one I suggest playing unpacking.
01:02:23
Speaker
It's a tiny game. I think it's on Switch or on PC. It's like $5. And you just unpack shit. And as you pull everything out from boxes and make your little space, it starts to tell a story. I don't want to spoil that story, but you're kind of learning. And even though there's no words or dialogue once throughout the whole thing, you're kind of really getting the sense of who this person you're unpacking is for.
01:02:45
Speaker
or who they are and what they're going through. I love video games. People play video games. All you need to play unpacking is a mouse. That's it. It's super cheap on Steam. It took me two hours, two or three hours maybe to get through the whole thing the first time. And there's so much that you can still find if you want to go back through it. And you will cry. It will hit you so heartwarmingly right in the fucking gut that you will cry in a good way.
01:03:14
Speaker
because you're seeing this progression of this female lead that you never see. And all you're seeing is glimpses of her life in the moments that she is moving and unpacking her things.
01:03:27
Speaker
It's really cool. It's also like very it feeds that inner child because you're literally like taking out a teddy bear and where am I going to put it in this bedroom lining up all your chicks? Yeah, where are you gonna take every time you move? You get all your little stuffed chickens and where are you gonna put your books and your TV and like that's the whole game, but it has a really strong story.
01:03:49
Speaker
So highly recommend. It's also very artistically visually appealing. It's very satisfying to look at. It's isometric. I just love it. Play unpacking. I just think there should be a lot more domestic and love-focused things.
01:04:09
Speaker
I don't think it has to be female-led to still show that expression and be loved. Amore is a game that's on Switch now, and it's also on PC, but it's about a boy who is trying to unpack his grief, so he lives mostly in a dream world. And it is extremely good. It is very well loved. It's like a 20-hour game, maybe.
01:04:29
Speaker
But it is so good to play through. It's very sweet. You have moments with friends. I like games that are sweet and will make me cry on top of like my very stupid games I play because I don't know what else to play. But any game that can really make me feel is my favorite way of storytelling. I like being able to learn about these characters and see how they feel so that I can feel it too. So I'm a big gamer and I suggest everyone find a game they love and really hold on to it because the feeling that can come from it is huge.
01:04:59
Speaker
I am going to give you guys some comic based stuff. So Bianca, you can get away from Marvel. If you want to actually dip your toe in reading comics, I highly suggest DC's Bombshells. It's all focused around the women of the DC Comics universe. It takes place during World War Two.
01:05:20
Speaker
And it's a retelling of all of the characters that you might know about, but don't know a ton about. And they do so in a way that doesn't feel like weird World War II fetish porn. You know what I mean? It's truly like...
01:05:36
Speaker
These women are on the front lines, but they're still caring for their constituents, essentially, as to who to save, how to tackle it, how do you balance being a human amongst all of this. There's a lot of coming of age stuff in it, and the art is beautiful. They rotate through several different artists, but the main artist that I love is Marguerite Savage, I think is how you say her name.
01:06:01
Speaker
She's a French comic artist and she has this very soft like watercolor-esque style that I have not seen in comics before. But I love it so much. I literally have a little Batwoman on my computer and little Batgirl that's from the series because I have to look at them constantly because I love them. Yeah, Parker has cosplayed Supergirl from the bombshells.
01:06:25
Speaker
series and they're all pinup inspired styles, but it's not really done in a sexual way in the plot. There's obviously vintage looking pinup covers, but then you open the book and it's like, oh, Batwoman's covered in blood and she's fighting to save her girlfriend's life because she's a lesbian Jewish woman that's running a business in New York in the 40s United States and has to go fight the Nazis. I love her.
01:06:56
Speaker
Yeah. And you can, you can read it online, like support the artist. You can read it online. Okay. Okay. Well, I'll, I'll have Andrew team me into a comic book store cause he likes to do that. This one's a one off based on the Harley Quinn series, but also, oh, hold on. I just lost the series. You know what I'm talking about? The Harley Quinn marriage one with poison Ivy. What's it called? Oh, the E-Bang killed tour. Yes. E-Bang killed tour is also a fun little read. If you've read the Harley Quinn series, it's just an in-between. I think it's,
01:07:23
Speaker
four copies, four issues between season three and season four. Really cute little read. Just two girls doing their honeymoon. Very sweet. Um, I love that. Talk about seeing women beat the shit out of people. Watch the Harley Quinn animated series. It's really good. It's very funny, but it's also good at kind of talking about trauma because, um, if no one's aware, uh, Harley Quinn is a psychologist. She's.
01:07:49
Speaker
done it forever. That's what led to her being turned into a clown. But she really overcomes that and is really focused on finding back her roots of understanding human nature and people. So it starts to twist backwards into like, well, maybe she's not a villain, and maybe she's more of like an anti hero, or maybe she really is more just like someone who's trying to do better, but the heroes aren't doing it right. So she has to
01:08:13
Speaker
kind of deal. So really check that one out. The Harley Quinn series is fucking awesome. So I feel like on that note, we can't really end without a very APT inspired question. Are we excited for Lady Gaga to play Harley Quinn? And the answer should be yes, but I'll accept other ones from the professionals. I'm excited for her. Not excited for another Joker movie. Yes, I think that's fair. I think that's very fair. It's a
01:08:41
Speaker
It's a great movie. I find it unfortunate that other people don't watch it and interpret it the way that I did and that's what's scary. Like I'm scared for the people who
01:08:58
Speaker
aren't processing the layers that that movie has to offer and are taking it at face value. So I know that Gaga is gonna, you know, pull out all the stops for this. I think she was looking a little, you know, tired at the Oscars maybe from being on set. So I'm excited to see it, of course, but it's always concerning when a film like that comes out and you're like, there are people who really aren't gonna get the
01:09:27
Speaker
There's a short podcast series that's an official DC Comics podcast about Harley Quinn's creation, like how she transitions from Harleen Quinzel to Harley Quinn. The way they tell that story, I think, would fit perfect with Lady Gaga's representation. So give it a listen and then go watch the movie. Still be a little nervous, because again, it is a Joker movie.
01:09:55
Speaker
We don't care about the Joker anymore. The only one that matters is Harley. We know why all the girlies and the gays are going to show up to that film and that's what makes me happy. That brings me joy. I'll be there for her. The girlies and the gays infiltrating that
01:10:13
Speaker
male dominant space and you know we love to see it but Parker has a point have the fear have the nerves be prepared oh yeah on reddit um don't go in public for a minute don't go on twitter don't don't use just turn your phone off for five days maybe a month depending how this one goes as much as i love the art form that is brought to life when you go to a movie theater
01:10:41
Speaker
I do really miss the COVID days.
Engagement and Social Media Promotion
01:10:43
Speaker
I'm just being able to watch a movie in my damn house. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. So before we let you guys go, can you please plug yourselves, plug your artwork, plug the show, tell us where everyone can listen to you, where they can find you. Ready, go.
01:11:00
Speaker
Um, you can find me personally at crown guard cosplay on instagram and little light B on twitter You can find our podcast at fandames pod on twitter and instagram and you can also find us at patreon.com slash fandames pod
01:11:12
Speaker
And on Spotify is Fandame's Pod with Parks and Nebula. Nebula, where are you at? You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at nebula underscore inky. And we also have new sticker designs that we teamed up with an artist on that if you want to sign up for our Patreon, you can get those as rewards. So hell yeah.
01:11:32
Speaker
And if you want to find our panel we referenced earlier about women in convention scenes and cosplay scenes, that is available on video version on our Patreon and also released on our Spotify for the audio listeners. Cool. And we will link all of that for you guys in the show notes so you can find everything that Parks and Nebula are doing right here, wherever you're listening to this episode. Hell yeah. Thank you so much.
01:11:58
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Everyone, please go over to Fandame. They have some incredible content. But in the meantime, thank you so much for bringing cosplay and your hot takes to our Pop Talk podcast. And everyone listening, we will talk to you all into Tuesdays. Bye, everyone. Bye.
01:12:17
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
01:12:49
Speaker
you