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Another SpOoKy Artpop Talk with Lyn Broyles
278 Plays2 years ago
Special guest @lynwhoher is BACK!! In this episode we ask Lyn (our APT spooky expert) her hot takes on Pearl, Blonde, Don’t Worry Darling, Hocus Pocus 2, and more!
Go back and listen to Lyn's first appearance on APT where she tells us all about the "final girl" theory.
For more Artpop Talk, click HERE.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Bianca, and we are so excited to welcome you to Art Pop Talk's 100th episode. For today's episode, we have a guest that may be familiar to you, Lynn Broyles. She joined us one year ago to talk about all things horror and gender, and now she is back to talk with us about this year's horror and thriller films.
Lynn's Focus on Gender in Horror
00:00:30
Speaker
Lynn Broyles is a writer and academic living in Western Massachusetts. She studies gender and sexuality in horror films. And without further ado, we cannot wait to get straight into today's episode. So here we are with Lynn Broyles. All righty. Hello, hello, everyone. Hello, Lynn. Welcome back to the show. Can you please
00:00:57
Speaker
reintroduce yourself to all the art pop tarts who may not remember you or have heard you before. Give them a little info about yourself and what brings you back on the show today.
00:01:08
Speaker
Well, hey, everybody. It's so good to be back. I'm so excited to be here to talk about some spooky things and some gender things and some spooky gender things. I am Lynn Broyles, a writer and an academic with interest in feminist theory and how it interacts with horror movies and visual culture. So yeah, I love talking about
00:01:34
Speaker
the final girl theory. That's why I was on last time. And that was a great, super fun conversation. And I am so excited to talk about, you know, current horror movies, what's going on, the trends, what representation looks like right now.
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, now that you mentioned it, we also would like to talk about that. I mean, it has been a whole year. We've had another Halloween season come and go. We've seen some evolution of our OG final girl. We have the Halloween kills. We have Jamie Lee Curtis coming out. So I don't know. I mean, what's been going on from your perspective? Has have these concepts evolved? Are you seeing new trends? Like give us a G.
Critique of 'Wokifying' Horror Films
00:02:23
Speaker
I think, especially in remakes right now, they're really trying to, I guess, wokify, I say, in a very ironic way. They're trying to wokify these old monsters.
00:02:41
Speaker
And it kind of just really comes off very cringe. For example, we got the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You guys probably saw that clip going around Twitter and social media when it was about to come out. Leatherface comes onto a bus and this guy has his phone up and is recording him and says, try anything. You're canceled, bro.
00:03:04
Speaker
I honestly hate it so much, Lynn. We are going to talk about that wokeism a lot more throughout this episode, but I cannot tell you. It brings me so much hate joy for you to talk about it already because I'm just glad we're on the same page.
00:03:22
Speaker
I feel like Wokeify is, even though it's like a simple term, I feel like that's the exact word Gianna and I have been missing from our vocabulary. Like it's a very academic way to like be critical of things that theoretically like should be bringing progress to the genre, but we're talking about it in kind of this critical context.
00:03:44
Speaker
Definitely. It just comes off as performative and weird and cringe. And my leather face shouldn't be confronted with cancel culture, I don't think. So he's innocent of that. And you know what maybe should be canceled in theory is murdering people.
00:04:06
Speaker
We like horror movies and they exist in that realm to bring us into that area of fear. But you know what is one of the biggest uh-ohs of all time is like, I don't know, being mass serial killer.
00:04:24
Speaker
Definitely. I mean, I think some of it has worked to a better degree than the very corny Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which also in that in that movie, they roll into this very dusty Texas town and see that also they're like, like YouTube or
00:04:45
Speaker
we're going to redo this town in kind of a hustle culture. Like we're gonna flip this town and make a bunch of money and profit. It's a very weird premise. And they see that on one of the buildings as a Confederate flag and they like go up and rip it down. It's so oddly like signaling. It's like virtue signaling, but there's no substance beneath it.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yes, exactly. And maybe this brings us into a larger conversation. And like already, like, there's no escaping this topic. Like, it's been on Bianca and I's minds. We have had conversations on the podcast between Bianca and myself a little bit about what's been going on with Hocus Pocus with that kind of woke humor. We've also talked about just the fantasy genre and how like political commentary has
00:05:37
Speaker
become a part of something as dumb as House of the Dragon. And so I think there's a certain level of escapism and just pure entertainment that comes in with something like horror or fantasy. And I really don't understand why we are seeing this political commentary in something that is meant to evoke escapism. So I mean, where is that line and why are we seeing it in this mode of entertainment?
00:06:07
Speaker
I think it's kind of a knee-jerk reaction to, well, I want to show that I'm on the side of good. I want to signal that I know the terms. I know the conversation we're having. I don't want to be criticized for not speaking to that, I guess. But I do think there are things that we don't need to worry about that. We don't need to worry about that in our
00:06:37
Speaker
you know, medieval witch fantasy for children. That's okay. For that one specifically, I, I don't know, I think they had to make them a little bit more tolerable, because in Hocus Pocus 1,
00:06:55
Speaker
like they are eating children's souls. So yeah. What's the problem? I still don't understand why Hocus Pocus 2 needed to be more tolerable than the PG Hocus Pocus 1. That's true. I do think it ran into the issue of like,
00:07:20
Speaker
the Jason and Freddie movies where the villains became the protagonists and we have to, I think they overcorrected. I think they tried to make it about like Wiccan sisterhood and that kind of shit, which like go off, but not, not, you know, not my cup of tea in this, in this arena. But, um, it was a little, you could see the, the sweat. They were trying a little too hard on that one.
00:07:48
Speaker
Well, I know we're probably going to return to some of that here soon.
00:07:53
Speaker
I want to continue to dive in a little bit.
Analysis of 'Don't Worry Darling'
00:07:57
Speaker
Something that I have been chomping at the bit to talk about is don't worry, darling. And I so wish that I was in a film studies class right now to talk about this. So we need your expert opinion on the film overall. So I'm going to give a spoiler alert for anyone who has not seen Don't Worry, Darling.
00:08:18
Speaker
Lynn has full reign to dive into all the movies that we're going to talk about. So as we move throughout the conversation, spoilers on movies just are going to happen. If you don't want to listen, come back later on. We've given her full permission in that sense. I'm going to go wild with it. Oh, please do. Please do.
00:08:42
Speaker
We were talking about, June and I were talking about Don't Worry Darling in the context of a thriller movie. And we'll talk a little bit about its lineage with Stepford Wives that comes at the topic from more of a campy sense. But I think what Don't Worry Darling was trying to do was make its mark in telling the story in a more thriller-like sense. So can you tell us a little bit about how the film doesn't
00:09:10
Speaker
does succeed in doing that and talking about gender politics in this manner? I think the film, I think it succeeds mostly on a visual level. I think there were some really compelling visuals in there.
00:09:26
Speaker
like the wrapping the face in plastic that was very that evoked something in me like i was afraid and i was getting uncomfortable um so yeah i do think visually it was interesting in how it like in how it visualized the entrapment of being a housewife at that time like when the
00:09:52
Speaker
wall was coming behind her and she was becoming trapped between the wall and the window. I mean, that's a very evocative image that communicates like suffocation, both literal and emotional. So that was really cool. I think on most other levels, it was really corny. But visually, I applaud.
00:10:22
Speaker
I have kind of a follow up question to that. And this kind of follows in a vein of some of what Bianca and I wanted to talk about, because I think another trend that we are seeing is this artistic direction aspect of these thriller and horror movies that have recently come out. Don't worry, darling, being one of them. And I suppose maybe
00:10:46
Speaker
I am a little bit critical of this like default artsy lens with then this other kind of like no sustenance to the rest of the plot of the movie. And so it's just been like really odd to see this like highly artful direction kind of take precedence over everything else. And then this movie gets like a 20 minute standing ovation at Venice Film Festival.
00:11:14
Speaker
Really, everybody? We're just going to call this a masterpiece because it had a slightly artsy lens to it. Give me a break. I don't know. It's definitely doing art house drag and not well. But also, when it came out at those festivals, the reviews were kind of like, yeah, it's mid, but that's OK. It's a basic thriller.
00:11:43
Speaker
big like studio produced. So like, what's wrong with it? And I'm like, I kind of agree. It is what it is. It's a gentlemen six. Like, I just, I think maybe also the hype surrounding obviously we had the drama going on behind the scenes, but the cast and we have a woman director and it's like, I really don't
00:12:07
Speaker
I really don't want to hate on a film directed by a woman, especially when Booksmart was so enjoyable. I love Booksmart, and I was really, really excited for Olivia to deliver on something that's a little bit, I guess, branching off into a different genre. Obviously, Booksmart is a comedy.
00:12:29
Speaker
But I think I just watched A24's The Witch for the first time this Halloween. I mean, obviously Midsomer is another A24 film that's, you know, kind of known for breaking these horror boundaries with producing something that's creating fear in an environment that is not traditionally known for invoking those feelings and things like that.
00:12:54
Speaker
I think with Don't Worry Darling, it just, it fell so flat in that sense. Like there are these other movies that offer us this kind of non-traditional thriller landscape that really successfully delivered on making me feel a little bit stronger. But I think at the end of the day, I just like, I didn't care at the end of the movie. Like it didn't offer me anything new that I haven't seen before.
00:13:20
Speaker
So that kind of leans back to the 2004 version of the separate vibes I wanted to talk to you about. How did you find that transition from this very campy 2000s movie to what we have in Don't Worry Darling? How did you kind of, as a viewer,
00:13:41
Speaker
interpret that difference. I think it's not too far off with aesthetically. This is very like nuclear desert 1960s atomic, like that kind of era, while Stepford Wives is very Connecticut. But I think it's just the key is the sense of humor about itself because Stepford Wives, the 2004 version,
00:14:10
Speaker
is definitely self-aware of the jokes it's making, the campiness of it. Bette Midler is in it, which kind of implies a campiness going back to Hocus Pocus, too. But this one just takes itself very seriously and is like this is commentary
00:14:31
Speaker
about women's rights. And I'm like, okay. Like, I get it. Like, I just feel like they were being so overt. Yes. And not and not that that's a bad thing. But it felt like women's rights 101 for high schoolers. And, and that's great. That's all well and good. But it's like it wanted so badly to like reach the top of the hill, but it just like, tuckered out. It's kind of similar to did you guys see men?
00:14:59
Speaker
It was an A24 movie that came out this summer and it was very much like
00:15:05
Speaker
this is saying something about gender. This is like making a statement, but you couldn't tell what the statement was. And like, that's kind of, but in this one, it's like the statement is almost too obvious. I get it. You're over laboring the point, you know? And I feel like it's a point that's not, not that it's not relevant. I just feel like there are so many other more pressing women's issues that are happening right now.
00:15:33
Speaker
And it felt like all those current fears, like real fears that women have were just like, like, yeah, yeah, afraid of being a housewife. It's like, well, there's kind of some other stuff on my mind. Yeah. And I mean, like the 2004 one was very kind of like Sex in the City feminism, where it was like,
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, I can work and be happy and be sexually liberated and have kids if I want. And like you can have it all kind of capitalistic. It's all about outward success and upward mobility kind of thing.
00:16:13
Speaker
And then the 1975 one is very much about like second wave, like I want the right to a divorce, like that kind of thing. So this is kind of a weird in between unsuccessful version of that, where it leans more to the visual campiness and like kind of swinging like 60s version of it, but with nothing really to say.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the interesting thing about Don't Worry Darling is it does fall trap to some of the concepts that we've talked about on the podcast, like futurism and how otherworldly constructions are fabricated in this mid-century modern light. And so I felt like Don't Worry Darling was just a continuation of that. I would say this movie reminds me, thinking of just the lineage of this plot
00:17:12
Speaker
I think this movie is equivalent to like the Barbara Streisand version of Starsborne. Like it's maybe not the best one out of the remakes. Yeah, for sure. You know. But just let's kind of keep this conversation going and possibly go back to Hocus Pocus 2. We've talked about some of the things that Don't Worry Darling has fallen trapped to and I think
00:17:40
Speaker
Some of the same things possibly apply to Hocus Pocus when we're thinking of remakes or reboots. Bianca and I were perhaps critical about the Sanderson sisters backstory and how I feel as though sequels fall kind of traps.
00:17:59
Speaker
trapped to making sure that they do an intro scene with a backstory. It seems like a very common formula that we see. But with that aside, with this being a movie that also lends itself to a children's movie, but it's also has stayed with us as adults and it has been put in this genre as a cult classic.
00:18:25
Speaker
We're critical in the sense that this backstory doesn't lend itself to the camp factor that we know and love. And going back to that woke-ism, right, and woke-ifying this plot line, Bianca and I didn't
00:18:42
Speaker
feel as though we needed a reason for the Sanderson sisters to be witches or that they eat children. We were comfortable with just knowing that that is what they were. So from your perspective- Even just having a reason to love them. Sorry to cut you off, Jenna, but I don't need a reason to love the Sanderson sisters. I don't need you to present their
00:19:03
Speaker
sisterly bond of how they became witches in this old woman in the woods from Ted Lasso gives you the book and like, you know, it's just like I already you hooked me. I'm good, you know, yeah, honestly, it confused me a little bit because now I'm like, confused about
00:19:22
Speaker
is Winnie the only witch and like are the other two only witches because like Winnie like that honestly confused me even more it opened up a lot of questions like especially I was like but in the in the first one there's a moment when they go mother like and they talk about like their their mother who was a witch and I'm like was that supposed to be her anyway it really just complicated a lot of things um but no it was like they were cool and feminist like icons or like
00:19:51
Speaker
cool girl Halloween costumes, I guess, without, you know, a tragic backstory. Without like the preacher of the town, like having a vendetta against them. It's just it felt very like heavy handed. It felt very similar to
00:20:10
Speaker
the Fear Street trilogy that came out on Netflix recently. I was like, are they reusing these sets maybe? Yeah, and also I'm a little bit bitter about the fact that I feel like the audience intended for this movie was children. And I'm not saying that the first one wasn't also, but I really felt that
00:20:33
Speaker
with the second movie, and I felt that was some of the even plot changes that we got. And this specific focus that Winnie's kiss with Billy the Zombie was just one kiss because, like, God forbid they got jiggy with it. Like, that would just be, like, so scandalous. Like... That was the charm of Hocus Pocus 1, was that it was a little bit horny. Right. Was that we were talking about Yabos and virgins. Of course, that's where I learned what a virgin was.
00:21:02
Speaker
That's where we all learned what a virgin was. Right, but then we had the kid being like, oh mommy, what's a virgin? And then her being like, uh-uh. I was like, instantly no. I actually did think that line was one of the funnier ones than anyone because it was like,
00:21:20
Speaker
I thought I thought that that was one of the there were a few moments in hocus pocus two where they they really like encapsulated like all the things that we thought of as like young kids like when I watched hocus pocus one like Linus saying you're like all right he's a virgin we'll just we'll just roll with it like not sure what that means but like okay like so I thought that was a very kind of a good momento to us watching it as adults but the rest of it
00:21:50
Speaker
didn't succeed to that level.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, it was written by a comedy person named Jen DiAngelo, who is a frequent podcast guest on the things I listen to and stuff. And she has talked about her love of Hocus Focus 1. She freaked out at the opportunity and was so excited and so happy to get to do this project. And I think you can tell, I think you can tell that there is a reverence and appreciation for
00:22:20
Speaker
the fans and the joy of the first movie. But I think it was a little bogged down with some plot manipulations and some unnecessary backstory kind of stuff, for sure.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, sometimes that art pop talk too, we can just let Hocus Pocus 2 be Hocus Pocus 2. I feel like we all knew what this movie was going to be. Totally. I think we can probably put it to bed now, but now that we have Lynn's hot takes, I'm at peace with it. Well, I was expecting it to be really bad. My expectations were really low, so I was like, this is serviceable.
00:23:04
Speaker
hitting the spot, and Kathy Najimy is funny as hell, always is.
00:23:08
Speaker
Okay, well, Lynn, oh my gosh, there, I'll have to send you this TikTok that I saw of someone on set shooting, like filming a moment behind the scenes. And it was of Kathleen and Jimmy, and she was on her little like DJ room buzz, you know? And she ad-libbed or whatever, like made up this scene where she was like,
00:23:36
Speaker
Oh, like they're vibrating and then kind of like a like a funny way. Like it was like a, like a sex joke. And I was, it was great. And like, of course, it wasn't in the original movie. But I just love that, you know, at least I knew that she was having a good time and hopefully had fun putting her like own take on the character again, but I would have absolutely
00:24:01
Speaker
loved if that would have been in there. What a missed opportunity. The best joke in the movie to me is when they're at Walgreens putting all the lotions all over themselves and she gets out of the face mask and goes, "'Tis the face of a child." Would 100% agree. I think that whole scene was very clever when talking about youth and beauty products. I thought that was all very clever.
'Blonde' as a Trauma Narrative
00:24:31
Speaker
Um, so, you know, like I said, I think like we can be at peace with it now, but what I will say and what I am not at peace with is the blonde movie that came out on Netflix. So I can, I can feel that you have some thoughts about this one as do we. And part of Bianca and I's very brief conversation about blonde was we're just, we're not really sure where this
00:25:00
Speaker
movie belongs just because of its overall ignorance or it just being basically a trauma scape just one scene after another. I don't know if I've ever experienced a movie like this and you know it's obviously based on this historic character but it is definitely a fiction and I'm not sure if it was
00:25:22
Speaker
Presented to us in this in in that way or we knew that it was going to be a fiction I thought everyone thought it was gonna be this biopic and I I would not place it there But I think that is what is so puzzling is that I don't I don't know what to do with this movie I don't know where to put it and hopefully you can you know shed some light on where we can put it and
00:25:45
Speaker
Well, I was thinking because it is based on a novel by Joyce Carol Oates, right? And she is a pretty
00:25:55
Speaker
noted feminist author, but I can see how in text it might be an interesting exercise of like maybe what is behind this Marilyn myth. It could, I can see in text it working, I guess. Um, it, not a, not a pleasant, it wouldn't be pleasant in that, in that, um, media either.
00:26:19
Speaker
But in film, it was just really unrelenting and horrible to watch. I think in terms of its genre, I don't think it's horror in that it is horrific, but I don't think it has that. There's no suspense.
00:26:39
Speaker
It's absolutely suspense-less. You know that something terrible is going to happen, and then it does, and then she feels bad about it, and then it happens again. But there's no ride up the roller coaster, and then you climax and then release. There's no release ever. Yeah, I think another thing too.
00:27:01
Speaker
add to blonde as well is potentially just the timing of this movie coming out. And I think potentially some of the commentary, I was highly, highly disturbed by the fetus speaking to Marilyn. And I don't know what you thought about that, if you're comfortable with sharing any thoughts, because that happened several times about the movie and I was just not okay.
00:27:28
Speaker
like watching that at all. It was very disturbing. It felt very shoehorned in for some reason. Like I don't know why we needed to go in utero. I don't know why the fetus needed to have like a voiceover and like actually accuse her of like
00:27:51
Speaker
hurting it previously and saying that that was the same baby. It was really horrible and it struck me more as like an anti-choice Christian short video or something than a real movie. I'm curious of just how you kind of reconcile
00:28:17
Speaker
watching something like that with blonde that seems very uh you know kind of anti-feminist despite the you know kind of original writings from the book it comes from with things like we talked about from uh you know last time you were on the show with things like the final girl or even like giana said and you were talking about the beginning we are very much in this age of
00:28:39
Speaker
reboots, but we do have this kind of like reoccurring final girls Jamie Lee coming back in the final Halloween. So how, how do we kind of wrestle with things like blonde and then at the same time, Jamie Lee coming back as the final girl in a reboot nonetheless, but you know, having these characters
00:28:59
Speaker
bounce back and forth within this genre. I think, unfortunately, exploiting women's pain is never going to go away in art. And I think Blonde is an example of that. But I think on the flip side, you also have more
00:29:22
Speaker
representation of women who aren't victims, who aren't like childlike in their naivety and like openness. And I'm going back to blonde a little bit. But yeah, I think there's
00:29:39
Speaker
So much more variety now in terms of women in specifically horror and in film in general. Just one of the recent releases in horror is Prey. Have you guys seen Prey on Hulu? Okay. It is a...
00:29:57
Speaker
kind of prequel sequel continuation of the Predator franchise. Yeah, a lot of young boys liked in the 1980s. But this one is set in the 1700s in the Great American Plains with the Comanche warrior
00:30:16
Speaker
girl who is going up against the predator or a version of him from that time period. And it's really kick-ass and super cool and the action is sick and like it was just really amazing to see like a native woman and an all-native cast like really getting to kick-ass on screen.
00:30:39
Speaker
I think now that you mentioned it, I think I've seen like the trailers for that come up. It's not scary. It's very much like actiony kind of that kind of violence. Okay. Okay. Oh, I'm excited. I'll have to watch.
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and not everything has been so bad in horror, I feel as though, you know, our conversations are kind of, you know, nitpicking the things that we have seen that we haven't liked. But there's been a lot of better conversation around the movie Pearl, which, you know, we have talked about A24 on the pod, obviously a lot. And Pearl, for those who don't know,
00:31:19
Speaker
is Ty West's origin story of the movie X, which was really kind of like inspired by 70s slasher flicks. And so Pearl being this origin story really kind of takes on or I should say what people were excited about was it taking on this kind of classic horror aesthetic, people really interested in the musical score, they were interested in how
00:31:42
Speaker
the credits were even rolled kind of at the beginning. And so I feel like here is a really good example of how a more kind of like interesting, unique, artful direction really works. You know,
00:31:56
Speaker
A24 sometimes can be hit or miss with that direction. But I think overall, people really liked Pearl. So we don't have to compare Pearl to blonde if that's not helpful. But Lynn, I don't know if you agree about the direction and how you liked it.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, I adore Pearl. That's one of my favorite movies of the year, definitely. It feels very grand and painterly. It's very much like a big 1950s technicolor Hollywood epic. It was very much inspired by Wordsworth of Oz, so there's a lot of those little touches.
00:32:37
Speaker
throughout and then it being a prequel to X which is the opposite aesthetic which is very grungy like dark porno like sleazy barn 1970s Texas chainsaw vibes it was just a really really cool juxtaposition and both of them were done
00:33:02
Speaker
extremely well. I would say in comparison to blonde, I think blonde felt so much more arbitrary, like the switching between the black and white and the color. It's like, okay, I'm trying to find like a
00:33:17
Speaker
When we're in black and white, why are we in black and white? You know what I mean? And that felt a little haphazard. The 2001 Ass Baby is what my notes say. It looked like the film 2001.
00:33:34
Speaker
Like, really bad. And then, as films about female characters that are meant to be like, kind of, character studies, we have Pearl and Blonde, like, Pearl is a really ferocious, like, overwhelming screen presence.
00:33:53
Speaker
insane person whom I love and Marilyn is like a perpetually kicked down child or like kitten or something and it's really difficult to watch. This is a really like dumb and not helpful like pop culture reference but
00:34:13
Speaker
And I hate being that girl that's like, have you watched The Office? But Roland reminds me of when The Office is like having a Halloween party and Gabe is trying to like adult up The Office party and he brings in this like weird movie to show that's just like a random scenes and like they're like really like disturbing and people are just like, what the heck is happening?
00:34:37
Speaker
that's all I was thinking about when I was watching blonde and that has and now that you're saying it kind of that like weird pop of like black and white just like randomly thrown in I was like what are what are we doing here it reminded me of like in college when my professors would say
00:34:56
Speaker
don't show us your photographs in black and white just because you think that's artsy. You're just putting a filter over it. Artsy for artsy. It's not really doing anything. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, the guy, I was disappointed because the director, Andrew Dominick, is a frequent collaborator with Nick Cave, who is a fantastic musician. I've liked for forever. He's a wonderful artist, and they've made some films together, and I'm like, ooh, that loads well.
00:35:25
Speaker
Okay, nevermind. I just thinking about Pearl and the actual, you know, kind of good movies and the Hulu movie you mentioned. This is a kind of a random question, but Andrew and I were just talking about, you know, it is Oscar season kind of will be here before we know it. So as a follow up, you know, from our last conversation,
00:35:53
Speaker
after this round of thriller horror movies has come out for 2022.
Horror Films and Award Season
00:36:00
Speaker
Where do you think the genre sits and these films that in particular as we kind of line up into award season again, not that
00:36:09
Speaker
award season, you know, it has pits and peaks just like everything else. And, you know, we're probably gonna get set by all of that. But what do you think? I think that out of everybody, the most likely to get any kind of nom is Mia Goth from Pearl. There is a truly outstanding, like,
00:36:32
Speaker
eight minute long credit sequence where she holds a smile and then starts crying because her face is hurting so badly. And like it's it's incredible the work that she's done. But yeah, I could see I could see maybe that getting talked about. But unfortunately, there's really
00:36:55
Speaker
very, very few instances of horror, like making it into the Academy talk. I think The Exorcist and Silence of the Lambs are the only two horror movies that have ever won Best Picture, and there are very few ever nominated. But I think at like the level of like the Independent Spirit Awards, that's where you can really find some cool suggestions of like horror movies you need to watch that have come out in the past year.
00:37:25
Speaker
Nice. Well, maybe we'll bring you back on after the Oscars and we can have a debrief with Lynn, who is not only like, obviously you are an expertise in horror and gender, but, you know, a film scholar of all films. I would love your take on those once you get them as well. But I want to know what's coming up.
00:37:45
Speaker
you know with you in general you did mention to us that you're working on a slasher novel and multimedia zines so do tell yeah um over the past couple months i've been thinking like what do i really want to write like what do i love maybe i can just write the things that i love myself um so the experiment of writing an 80s slasher um where
00:38:10
Speaker
still chipping away, but it's been a very fun exercise to kind of translate the visual scenes that are playing out in my head, like from films into a novel has been interesting.
00:38:28
Speaker
And then the zine, I'm playing around with multimedia zines. I've always been interested in collage and especially video and still collage. So I'm looking at zines as a way to integrate video and song audio, song clips, and still images into one series.
00:38:56
Speaker
Absolutely love it. And to kind of, I don't know, pay back off of Bianca's questions, we know that the award season isn't always the best judge of character or product.
Top Horror Film Recommendations
00:39:09
Speaker
So if we just, you know, to wrap things up, we just need lens like top horror watches. You know, I know that there were some movies that we didn't talk about. Barbarian has gotten a lot of press.
00:39:21
Speaker
I've been really interested in the marketing behind, I believe it's Smile, which is probably not the best horror film, but the way that they put people in the wild to publicize that movie, I think is really interesting. I think the branding is on point. So I don't know, what should we add to our watch list and what have we not talked about?
00:39:44
Speaker
I think this one is kind of a wild pick. I myself did not really expect much, but one of the most enjoyable films of the year for me was Orphan First Kill. A hilarious, so funny, so funny film. I loved every minute of it. You should definitely watch it. Unapologetic. I enjoyed every minute.
00:40:11
Speaker
Esther's revenge continues as she wreaks havoc on families throughout America. But yeah, love that little queen, orphan first kill, fantastic movie. When your slasher novel gets turned into a Hollywood film, are we invited to the red carpet premiere? Yes, God. Like, can we be friends? Of course. Oh, my God. OK, everyone, when this comes out, go read this slasher, sweet thing about it. For purely selfish reasons.
00:40:41
Speaker
I'm trying to think of any other, barbarian was fantastic. It was one that, do you know what was directed by a whitest kid you know? One of the whitest kids you know directed barbarian, which is insane to me, Zach Kreger. I was listening to a lot of press with Justin Long about barbarian and
00:41:07
Speaker
I haven't watched it yet. It is definitely on my list. But I heard it's so scary that I just like have it. It's very scary. Okay, okay. I just I really, I really haven't gotten to that level yet. And it was getting way too close to Halloween. I was like, the stars are way too much on spooky season. Like I just didn't feel ready yet. So
00:41:28
Speaker
So it's very scary. Yeah, it's incredibly scary. It is also about what if you booked an Airbnb and there was already a guy there. Would you stay? What if he is kind of creepy but kind of hot also?
00:41:49
Speaker
obviously invite him in obviously. Yeah and it's it plays on it explicitly plays with like women's fear of men in an interesting way of like being alone with a man in a house and that kind of thing and being safe in your neighborhood. So it is interesting I can't believe it came from a whitest kid but good for him.
00:42:14
Speaker
Well, so we will definitely add Barbarian to the watch list. I will try to get over my scaredy-cat-ness and do our special guest proud. I was trying to feel like if I could just hone in on the goofy Justin Long being Justin Long, I really want to watch it. And he was so sweet talking about how much fun it was doing in this movie. And then everyone was like,
00:42:41
Speaker
don't go see it. I don't know if he's the sweetest. Let's just say that. Interesting. I'm so scared, but I want to watch.
00:42:53
Speaker
I also, maybe before we go, something interesting to maybe talk about would be Dahmer. I don't know if you've watched that. I did finish that series. Do you have any thoughts about that show? I did not watch. I was a little grossed out just from what I read about it.
00:43:13
Speaker
I used to be a Ryan Murphy, like, I'll watch all the American Horror Story or whatever, but it just got to the point where it's too gross and too just like violent, fetishistic and nasty. And that seemed like this was all that was. So I avoided it.
00:43:32
Speaker
Well, part of the reason why I asked that question is because something that maybe we didn't talk about so, so much in this, using that particular terminology is that something like Dahmer was more accurate in terms of a biopic, but it did obviously put that in light of fetishizing what he did.
00:43:54
Speaker
And the same thing goes kind of for Marilyn in that directoral light is that it really just fetishized her trauma. And I guess I don't know how to kind of combat the two. Again, it might not be fair to compare because I'm still grappling with with blonde, but it's a it's an interesting
00:44:16
Speaker
concept or lens that I feel like has just kept coming up. And again, I don't know where to put all these things, especially when they're sometimes real or they're based in reality, and then they're not. But obviously, Dahmer was completely based in reality. Yeah.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:44:35
Speaker
Well, on that note, Lynn, before we let you go, is there anything else that you'd like to talk about or share with the listeners before we let you go?
00:44:44
Speaker
I don't think so. I'm just glad to be on. Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate an open invitation to talk about horror movies of the day.
00:44:55
Speaker
I'll gladly take it. Always welcome. Always welcome. Always such a treat to have you here. And we, as always, appreciate you and your expertise and horror. You are our go-to gal. So everyone, this is just a friendly reminder. If you like this conversation with Lynn, you should definitely go back and listen to our episode with her.
00:45:15
Speaker
from last Halloween 2021. So everybody with that, definitely give Lynn a follow. We will link all of her social media and where to get in touch with her in the show notes of this episode. And with that, we will talk to you all into Tuesdays. Bye, everyone. Bye bye.
00:45:36
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
00:46:08
Speaker
you