Transcript
Speaker: Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Bianca. And I'm Gianna. We are back in fall APT swing, kicking off the month of November with another mega art news session. It has been a while since we've done art news, but you know, you've all seen the latest art drama in the headlines and we figured we're ready to hash it out. Let's pour the soup on this painting, or in other words, let's art pop talk.
Speaker: What's up? How's it going? Good. Are you super entertained with yourself already in that line? Oh yeah, I thought it was really funny. So proud of you on this painting. Code for. Code, I don't need you anymore. You guys, have we talked about our love for Mega Mind, the movie? Fantastic.
Speaker: Go to pour the soup on the painting. I'm shaking in my baby seal leather boots. Fantastic film. I watched it recently. Good. Good stuff. Have you listened to Midnight's yet? No. So we're going to ex -Midnight's on Chitty Chatty. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker: I don't know why. I just haven't. You know what, I have a reason that I think you'll appreciate for me not listening to it multiple times. So I only listen to it once. And I actually want to listen to it more so I can understand, you know, just be like part of the part of the group, you know, be able to talk my way through at midnight conversation with my friends. But I don't want her to be on my Spotify top this year. And so I'm kind of like,
Speaker: refusing to listen to it on my Spotify. It's also so long. Oh my god, Bianca, I was just going to say isn't it like 28 songs or it's a very long, it's very laundry list of music, which respect for producing that much music. I don't know. I'm so I feel like so guilty sometimes for like the Swifties
Speaker: that are art pop tarts also, that we just don't give them this content. I feel as soon as this damn album came back, I wanted to retreat into the hole. I just was like, I don't want to. I definitely feel that complete respect to the Swifties. So happy for you. Know that I am because you know if Gaga put out a 20 song album, we would be dying in one by one. However,
Speaker: With this album, I feel as though, again, only listen to it one time, but the kind of self -reflection that Taylor is giving us, you know, I'm here for. We love a self -reflective queen. You know, that's very good and healthy, I think. Putting it out on Kim Kardashian's birthday. Don't know about that, however.
Speaker: i also heard some oh sorry no i was just gonna say like i feel like people might be stunned the more they get to know me because they know that i love a good easter egg you would think that i would be like a swifty stan but if you don't love like too many i feel like i am like overwhelmed like i also love an easter egg but i have ADHD
Speaker: and like I was going to tell you too much too much for me to focus on. I heard that the album came out at something like Taylor Swift's 12 ,000 hour of life or something like that all the you know because it's midnights 12 and it came out at the 1200, 3000,
Speaker: It's got into the point where like that's not even interesting for me. That's just ridiculous. Like that's just too much. No, it is ridiculous. But is that?
Speaker: Is that coincidental that it was on Kim Kardashian's birthday? No, I just think not. Based on the hours she was born, it's just something I heard. Do not fact check me on that because I don't know if it's true. I'm just spitting rumors out here, but whatever. I heard out of the pretty conspiracy therapy. There are also interesting conversations. TikTok is just kind of a savage place, so take this with a grain of salt.
Speaker: Yeah. In light of things happening with Kardashians and yay, TikTok is being very salty about how Taylor Swift is having the best moment of her life while others are not in the public eye. That's interesting. Yeah. So her album might have magical powers. I'm not sure. That's also very cool. Cool for the magical powers. I just love it. Great.
Speaker: Happy for you, know that I am, in the words of Demi Lovato, who works with Scooter Braun, who apparently is Red Paparin. So I don't know. Oh my God. I'm a savage. I will try. I will listen to it. It's only Tuesday. I had a busy weekend, so I will listen to it. I promise.
Speaker: I mean, maybe I feel as though next time you're going to Edmund, you can use that two hour drive to listen to the Midnight's album and then you'll be done. Okay, I'll challenge myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really big ask and I totally get that because I think what I might do is play it on YouTube so that it doesn't end up on my Spotify this year. I cannot have that girl on my Spotify tops again this year.
Speaker: What songs were on your on your top was it lover? So I love the lover album. Yeah, I truly love the lover album and when that came out rightfully so it was placed on my top Spotify.
Speaker: But when Evermore and Folklore come out and then she re -releases all her Taylor's version albums, so then I feel like out of respect, I want to listen to Taylor's version. And then she puts out 20 albums and she's on my top. And you're kicking other people out, and I don't think that's right. We know all too well in our pop talk what it's like to overproduce content. Did you mean to make that all too well pun?
Speaker: No, shut up. Totally. I, the all too well makes me think of Juliana Poro and I just love talking about her on this show because she would go on walks to the 13 minute version and if she did it like twice, she basically got like a 30 minute workout.
Speaker: And now when it came up I was in Delaware and we were talking about it. She was like, I'm just gonna go listen to it all too well in a while. And then my workout will be over. Oh my gosh. Well, I suppose that was kind of a nice introductory chitty chatty into probably the content that you're gonna get in the rest of this episode, which will be sporadic mega news art stories. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, that's, that's a gist. And in our last episode, we were talking about how much we missed our art news music too. Oh, so I will ask without further ado, formally, are we ready for some mega art news?
Speaker: So to kick things off today for our first art news segment this is going to be a continuation of the climate change protests taking place in museums and the use of well -known works of art as a way to get this message across about climate change or as a catalyst for change. So over the summer we had a couple of protests that we did speak about on our pop talk we had the use of Primavera
Speaker: and the copy of The Last Supper from the group Just Stop Oil. To give you all a refresher from our last art news segment, Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure that the government commits to ending all new licenses and consents to the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.
Speaker: Last week, Just Stop Oil staged another protest, this time with Van Gogh's Sunflowers, the National Gallery in London. So in this protest, they also released a video that can be found on Just Stop Oil's website. And to pick out one of their first quotes, they said, what is worth more, art or life? Are you more concerned with the protection of a painting or the protection of our planet?
Speaker: So there is a really good art news article that lays out this happening with the Van Gogh painting in which soup was thrown at it. And they have an interview with one of the protesters, a person named Phoebe Plummer. Phoebe Plummer says, quote, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. We did not damage the painting whatsoever. And also, I believe that the museum also made sure to say that the painting wasn't damaged as well. So we know that no harm
Speaker: has officially come to the sunflowers. In the video Palmer tells the camera that the protest looks like a quote slightly ridiculous action as she wears an orange safety vest and stands next to particularly a Heinz can of soup which the visuals of that Bianca I have I want to know your thoughts on that because from our frame of reference that's just a little bit chef's kiss. Plummer also goes on to say quote we're not asking the question should everyone be throwing soup
Speaker: at paintings. What we're doing is getting the conversation going so we can ask the question what matters. The issues that Plummer said she hopes to draw attention include the large number of fossil fuel licenses UK Prime Minister at the time
Speaker: Liz Truss has granted the amount of subsidies that fossil fuels receive compared to renewable energy despite the significantly lower reported costs of offshore wind and the connection to the current cost of living crisis in the UK with growing concerns about cost of energy.
Speaker: So, Bianca, if you remember kind of from our conversations from our last Art News segment, we didn't really talk so much about the financial backing of the Just Stop Oil movement. And I'm not sure that was information that we were exactly privy to at the time, but I was able to go to the Just Stop Oil website, which is very interesting now that they're getting a lot more media attention and more publicity with these protests.
Speaker: And also, if you'd like to donate, you can also do that through their website now. I'm not sure if you were able to do that before, but again, I think this is, you know, primarily a collective taking place in the UK, but it seems to be more of a global initiative. But what is interesting is that we know who one of their big financial backers is, which is Eiling Getty. Eiling Getty is the granddaughter of J. Paul Getty, who is the oil tycoon and founder of the Getty Museum in Los Angeles.
Speaker: Eileen Getty is a co -founder of the nonprofit Climate Emergency Fund and that was started in 2019 and she has reportedly donated one million of her personal wealth to support environmental activist group and that includes Just Stop Oil and the Extinction Rebellion just to name a few. The interesting thing about Eileen Getty is that she has not personally worked for the oil industry. She's basically like an heiress and
Speaker: a philanthropist, so she has a lot of money and is hopefully doing good things with that. The A -Link Getty Foundation says on their website, quote, they support organizations and individuals around the world committed to responding to the climate emergency.
Speaker: and treating our planet and its inhabitants with kindness and respect. So also really quick just recently this past week for frame of reference today is October 25th as we were recording that Just Stop Oil also took to Madame Tussauds in London where they smashed a what looked like a cake or dessert and the wax sculpture of King Charles III.
Speaker: I think this was also a collective that we talked about which is a German climate activist group called Last Generation. They also just recently had a performance where they threw mashed potatoes at one of Monet's paintings and there was also reportedly from that museum no harm had come to that painting which is Les Muse. So yeah that is kind of my recap on
Speaker: all of the art protests that have been happening. But I will say I think that Just Stop Oil is kind of at the forefront of these happenings at museums. So I would probably expect to see more of them. Also, their website is really interesting. If you'd want to join the initiative, it seems very accessible. You can hop on a Zoom with them or a call. So I'm kind of interested to see what their accessibility is like in terms of
Speaker: conversation with interested activists or the media and maybe seeing if we can get in touch with someone to Bianca because I don't think this is something that is going away anytime soon. Yeah, I definitely don't think so as long as our planet is in crisis. I think we have reason to protest for a for a future on this earth.
Speaker: that's my personal belief. I was talking with Andrew about this the other day because he was asking, you know, my thoughts were on on the sunflower soup incident. And like we said before, I am here for acts of protest as long as they're not damaging the works of art. I just I just worry that it's going to go on and
Speaker: build so much that at some point something is going to be damaged. Like you just don't bring food into a museum for a reason.
Speaker: But, you know, museums are very well equipped to protect art from thousands of patrons every day. I'm curious to see how this evolves in the United States. It seems like this is a very European -centric movement right now, so I'm curious to see how that will evolve geographically over time.
Speaker: And I'm also just very interested in this Getty figure. It must be nice to be an heiress. I'm just curious about more of her background. To me, she's kind of giving Elizabeth Sackler energy where she's like, no, I'm not involved in Purdue. Like, let me let me give you a feminist gallery. But then it's like, you know, I loved all the memes that were coming out after the soup throwing, where it was like all the oil backers just like laughing and laughing because
Speaker: I think at the end of the day, this is just, we're kind of missing the point. And I think most art people are okay, again, with doing the protests, but you just got to go about it in a little bit more of a better way. What a missed opportunity to not use, like you're saying, like works of art that involve soup. Like, we can name a few off of them.
Speaker: right i was gonna say like andy warhol paintings are made out of acrylic and they're not gonna last the test of time anyways so why don't you just throw a can of soup on that also i told andrew i feel like warhol would just love if someone would throw soup on top of his work and then it became a part of the work you know what i mean like i feel like he would actually kind of love if
Speaker: someone threw Campbell's Soup on top of his soup. Well it is interesting when you think about how they are going about choosing the works of art on display. I think they are um as we like to say quintessential works of art in terms of at least you know the artist like we did a Botticelli, we did a Monet, we did a Van Gogh, like those are kind of like some basic like intro to art history level artists that you're probably
Speaker: familiar with. Also primavera was a topic of interest because of its representation of nature. And you could say the same things for the other two paintings that we just spoke about. You know, King Charles one is more just kind of like funnier than anything. It's just kind of like a fuck you, I think. It is. Which is layers and I in that video to one of the protesters was just like literally like this is
Speaker: take calm down. It was kind of funny. And as far as I know, the paintings that we're talking about are all behind glass too. I mean, I can think of a considerable amount of
Speaker: paintings that I viewed or like Andy Warhol paintings for example that aren't behind glass so I would like to think that this organization is understanding which works to to choose but I think that there's also that attention that comes with the painting that they're choosing and
Speaker: and totally perhaps a dollar amount as well or at least that is what the art world is picking up on because in a lot of this reporting they're like you know this Monet was on loan from this museum and it's reportedly worth 1 .4 million dollars like how dare they throw a can of soup on it so the dollar amount that is being I should say analyzed like not from the perspective of the activist group but from the art world is at play I think
Speaker: Yeah that's super interesting. We can make a statement and like how but how far does that statement go? Because I was talking you know with the entry about all these things there's so many problems that happen inside the museum world as well and what's happening inside the museum world whenever you damage a piece of art that's worth whatever figure dollar amount but if that's damaged
Speaker: Who is that hurting? Are there oil members on the board? Are there oil people who own this work of art? I'm just kind of curious as to like, after you make the protest, what's the next piece that actually
Speaker: makes legislation happen. Because at the end of the day, I don't want this to be a laughing stock where museums are taking this fall. Who is being impacted by this? Are those oil people just like laughing and laughing at the art world right now, basically?
Speaker: right and you bring up another good point in terms of what affiliations in terms of funding do certain museums or government institutions get from big business or big oil and I think it's been a little hit or miss in terms of what institutions they are targeting because there have been some museums that are like hey like
Speaker: we told you that you know next fiscal year like we're not like we're not accepting money from bp but but you went ahead and you know you chose this place to uh do this protest so there i think that um from my understanding has kind of been a little hit and miss maybe that's been a little kind of
Speaker: all over the place it's kind of interesting to hear your perspective Bianca because I feel like when we last talked about this you're very much in the mindset like yeah like our paintings are not going to be worth anything if our planet is destroyed and we're all dead and the future generations aren't going to be able to appreciate this because it's all going to be burned to the ground and I was more of like the oh my gosh like I don't know this is fighting fire with fire and now
Speaker: that this just keeps happening. Maybe we are like reaching a middle ground, maybe.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so. I definitely still feel that we know it is fact that there is just not going to be anything worth protecting. And I totally understand that sentiment. But I think so many more people have kind of entered this conversation now that it's becoming just so much more popular, which again, climate protests 100 % we need to do, we need to make that statement. But now I'm just curious about, okay, so what's next? Like, are we going to keep doing this? Is this going to evolve in some way? What?
Speaker: are we being shown as happening to take that to governments, to backers, like our museums being forced into those statements, like, who is accepting money from who, like, at the end of the day, it's just like, it sucks, but money kind of rules it all. So if you can cut off the money, then that makes a powerful, you know, I'm just like wrestling with all these like new ideas that people are bringing to the table, which is very cool and very interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, well, it is a developing and will be a reoccurring art news story. So for sure. Stay tuned as they'd, you know, as we like to say. Well, are we ready for the next story? Yes, we've got to move on. Otherwise, we'll keep talking. This one's a doozy.
Speaker: Okay, so I mentioned this last last episode, but I'm dying to talk to you all about the recently announced 2023 Met Gala theme. I'm not too happy about it. And when we posted this on our Instagram, we posted like a questions thing on our story, like a month ago now.
Speaker: And it seemed you all weren't too jazzed about it either. So according to Vogue, quote, it's official. The theme for the 2023 Met Gala is Karl Lagerfeld, A Line of Beauty.
Speaker: The exhibition will examine the life and creative legacy of the late designer who shaped the face of fashion for more than half a century. While we can joke as much as we want about this being Kris Jenner's moment to really shine and show off her affinity for Chanel and a black and white palette, the choice is sparking some controversy and here's why.
Speaker: The exhibition will reportedly see around 150 pieces paired with Lagerfeld's original sketches and those on the guest list for the Met Gala will design their looks around the theme, of course. But the decision to honor Lagerfeld in this way, he passed away in 2019, has sparked controversy due to lots of problematic things that he said very much in the public eye.
Speaker: Lagerfeld became a name in fashion as the creative director of the French fashion house Chanel.
Speaker: from 1983 until his death. And he was also the creative director of the Italian fur and leather goods fashion house Fendi. And he as well created his own fashion label, which sometimes you can, you know, find at Macy's or JCPenney or something like that. He was recognized for his signature white hair, black sunglasses, fingerless gloves, and high starched detachable collars. I didn't know that.
Speaker: In the 1980s, Lagerfeld was hired by Chanel which was actually considered a near -dead brand at the time since the death of Coco Chanel a decade prior. Taking over Couture there in 1983, Lagerfeld brought back to life the company making it a huge success and he revamped the ready -to -wear fashion line
Speaker: He integrated the interlocked CC monograph of the Coco Chanel, you know, letters into this pattern that we know Chanel for now, the House of Chanel, quote unquote. Lagerfeld also changed the silhouette of the fashion house, which prevailed in the 1960s, making it more 80s, padded shoulders.
Speaker: shortening and tightening the skirts, raising the heels. He enlarged or miniaturized jewelry and purses, which were very controversial moves at the time. Chanel had always disapproved of above the knee skirts.
Speaker: In 1984, a year after he started at Chanel, Lagerfeld also created his own Karl Lagerfeld brand and the brand was established to channel, quote, intellectual sexiness. According to a Cosmo article, which
Speaker: It's Cosmo but because it's just the announcement it was kind of hard to find. I don't want to say like Cosmo isn't elevated but you know like more of the elevated art articles I suppose about this topic which were interesting. So very like pop news heavy so you know. Take that with a grain of salt just to say quote, in 2009 Lagerfeld said that no one wants to see round women.
Speaker: later making a string of upsetting comments, including calling Adele quote, a little too fat and Heidi Klum too heavy. He also claimed Coco Chanel wasn't a feminist because she was never ugly enough for that. And like, I don't know. I just can't get on board with that whatsoever, especially knowing that Coco Chanel was a Nazi. Also learned today that the founder of Adidas was a Nazi because I was reading into all the
Speaker: yay stuff with Adidas dropping. Yay and learned Adidas is a German company and the founder of Adidas was also a Nazi. So she was never ugly enough to be a feminist, but she was pretty enough to be a Nazi. So she wasn't a feminist. Like she just thought that the day wasn't and it's very upsetting.
Speaker: So the Met Gala's upcoming theme has also reignited conversations about accusations of sexual assault made against Lagerfeld. Quote, if you don't want your pants pulled about, don't become a model. He once said in an interview with the fashion magazine numero at the height of the Me Too movement, quote, join a nunnery. There always be a place for you in the convent.
Speaker: And Gianna's eyes just got really big. After the announcement, a celebrity started to speak out, of course, and Jamila Jamil said, quote, This man was indeed supremely talented, but used his platform in such distinctly hateful way, so repeatedly and up until the last years of his life, showing no remorse, offering no atonement, no apology, no help to groups he attacked. Why is this who we celebrate when there are so many amazing designers out there
Speaker: who aren't bigoted old white men. Aside from these horrific characteristics and views about fashion and bodies that Lagerfeld very much publicly promoted, there are some other notable things that I was discussing briefly with APT fashion expert Juliana Poro, which we cannot wait to have on for this episode, of another Vogue article reads,
Speaker: Karl Lagerfeld was a regular attendee at the Metropolitan Museum of Art Costume Institute, from the seventh on sale benefit in 1991 to Alexander McQueen's Savage Beauty in 2011, and of course for the Chanel exhibition in 2005. And yet, says the Costume Institute's Wendy U. Curator in Charge, Andrew Bolton.
Speaker: Carl never tired of telling me that fashion did not belong in a museum. When we worked on the Chanel show together, he was incredibly generous in what he lent, but was completely disinterested in the exhibition itself. He would say, fashion is not art. Fashion belongs on the street, on women's bodies, on men's bodies. And that's a little binary for my take, but let's see you Gianna on this.
Speaker: I feel like I'm more coming from kind of like a untrustworthy perspective towards the Metropolitan Museum of Art, because I just kind of feel like they want the drama. Oh, okay. I don't know. I'm kind of like here for that take, but it's really gross if that's what they're doing. I feel like there's also been a lot of
Speaker: protests at the Met Gala from our celebrities. And there have been a lot of public thought and opinion about that in terms of, you know, it's really hard for you to be relatable right now when you are at this like very expensive benefit, getting dressed by, you know, our world's fashion designers and also upholding that celebrity. So obviously that's a part of it. But I do feel as though or I would hope
Speaker: that at the same time we do get those protests because it's gonna suck if also no one acknowledges this because I'm not quite sure we've gotten that statement from the museum but I think what I'm just like worried about is not only upholding like Karl Lagerfeld himself but upholding
Speaker: like Chanel and what that stands for as this quote, reputable brand. And it's just not, it comes from like a disingenuine, horrible, unfeminist woman. And that just concerns me. So it's, I think it's always the things that we grapple with with Met Gala is like, oh, we hope that there's protests, but also we wish that there was nothing to protest. And also, is the museum just thirsty for content? Like, I don't know.
Speaker: If this is going to be the theme, which I don't think they're going to change it obviously, I hope that there's protest at the event. You know, obviously I love the drama and I love the tea, but just to your point, I don't think they should have made this choice in the first place. This is a terrible choice and exactly this is not the person that we should be upholding.
Speaker: he can be an innovator, that's fine, you can be inspired by Karl Lagerfeld but to Jamila Jamil's point in her caption there are so many other talented designers who also work in this vein and I do think it's very strange to kind of place him on a pedestal in this way given obviously the the language, his views, the way he approached fashion
Speaker: But I think there's other people who are kind of working alongside him. What's the full title? A line of beauty. If we're thinking very clean, very classic, very linear, I think there's a lot of other artists and designers that you could celebrate in that theme. The theme being a line of beauty and not putting Lagerfeld on a pedestal in this way. Yeah.
Speaker: I think as well like we were even very shocked ourselves like not understanding particularly like Coco Chanel's past was not something that
Speaker: I was well rounded about or informative about at all and I still think there is a lack of just general public awareness. Like I can't tell you how many times I go into a gift store or like the children's book section in a bookstore where it's like famous figures throughout history and it's like Coco Chanel. Like this isn't great. Maybe a silver lining in all of this is that
Speaker: maybe it will put this history at the forefront and maybe this is the time for for people to actually understand because I was very shocked like when we had the presidential inauguration Lady Gaga was wearing full Schiaparelli and JLo was wearing full Chanel and it's just like like the the world war history like on display is just way too much and no one nothing nothing
Speaker: And to do that in such a political setting was just wildly fascinating to me. And we got zero conversation about it. So I hope people come up to this gala and wear Schiaparelli and have dresses that say the Italian on it.
Speaker: Oh my god. I'm just drooling at the thought. Truly. Like, I wouldn't be mad about that. Active protest. I do. I am totally here for that. Again, don't think it was the right choice. They shouldn't have made that choice to begin with. However, if we're gonna go through it, I need to see some people fucking act up at this Met Gala. Like, for real.
Speaker: But we could also keep talking about that. So we do need to move on to our next mega art news story. Is art created by AI art or can AI create true art? Recently, Ada, the world's first ultra realistic humanoid robot artist has gotten media attention. Jesus Christ.
Speaker: What a LinkedIn profile. Viserys Valerian, first of his name, protector of the realm. That just reminds me of... Jesus. What a fucking title. It's too much. It's too much is what it is. Oh, also, by the way, when you Google Ada, she comes up like with her own website. It's nicer than my website. Literally no one go look at my website. It's trash right now. And she comes up and is labeled as an artist.
Speaker: her first and foremost title artist, which is interesting. Who is Ada? Again, Ada is the world's first ultra realistic robot artist. She can draw and is a performance artist. She's multi talented. She's multi talented. She's everything she double majored that bitch.
Speaker: Oh my god, okay. She's got like a see a haircut thing going on as well. As a machine with AI capabilities, her artist persona is the artwork along with her drawings, performance art and collaborative paintings and sculptures. And this is her bio off of her website. Ada creates again contemporary art and she is a contemporary artist
Speaker: and is also contemporary art. So she's like all of this and more folks. And she encourages us to question our society and our futures. And in early October, Ada was part of a parliamentary inquiry about how technologies will impact creative industries. And it made history as the first robot to speak at the House of the Lords. So Ada says, quote,
Speaker: In this parliamentary inquiry in early October, I am independent on computer programs and algorithms. Although I am not alive, I can still create art. The robot uses cameras in its eyes programmed with AI algorithms and robot arms to create quote visually appealing images, according to the robot herself. The testimony was part of an inquiry for lawmakers to better understand
Speaker: how intellectual property and the creative workforce may be affected by new technologies. ADA, this humanoid robot, was created by Aiden Miller.
Speaker: who is an art dealer and gallery director and was also at this inquiry and presumably, you know, presented his humanoid robot to these officials. So that was interesting. I stumbled upon that and I shared it on our
Speaker: Instagram story, because I was a little taken back by it, but I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole in terms of just looking at some history or some good moments to reflect on with AI. And so ADA isn't the first AI art project to make a splash in the art world. A little bit, one of our more recent stories in 2008, the AI art collective, obvious, composed of researchers, artists and friends, according to their website,
Speaker: had one of their paintings auctioned through Christie's for over $400 ,000. This was the first sale of AI artwork through a major auction house. So that was a really big deal. And also, it's kind of funny the way that these works are referred to, they're referred to as paintings, but that language is also interesting when you think of AI as well.
Speaker: So they use their work to share their vision of artificial intelligence and its implication in our society. So when this flash happened in 2008, and you know, it's this quintessential moment, a historic moment for Christie's in the auction world. There was some articles that came out that I found from 2018, kind of taking a more futurist perspective, or I suppose maybe like a counter argument that I thought would be interesting to share.
Speaker: So the big thing is that until until AI can be programmed to absorb inspiration or crave communication or be able to express itself independently and express itself in creative ways independently a lot of people say that the work simply cannot be considered art so this story is also just interesting because it goes back to you know our favorite question what is art?
Speaker: And AI can change that. So there's a lot of basically opinion that essentially if a person is controlling the algorithm or the robot, then really the person is the artist. But some say otherwise. So I think this is still like very much up for debate. And that is part of the reason why we had Ada involved in legislation to talk about
Speaker: you know, how is AI also going to affect future creatives? Is technology something we need to be increasingly looking at when it comes to potentially our curriculum or access to AI? All that fun stuff. So essentially, if a person is steering the ship,
Speaker: you know, people think that it's not art. But I know that this is kind of different, Bianca, and you can not, you can shut down this tangent if you want. But I remember when we were working on an exhibition together, you know, about animation and contemporary art, there was a person who created a work of art through an avatar. And I'm not super well versed on this work of art. It was an animated
Speaker: video footage, so essentially a video. But this artist like created the artwork through the lens of this like avatar, so this third party. And so that's kind of what Ada reminded me of a little bit. And but is that a tangent? I don't know. No, I think that's completely valid and relevant to the conversation. I also think that brings up things like the gorillas, you know, they're a band, but not really, it's one person who has created the persona
Speaker: of figures in
Speaker: making the music so i think i think that's kind of an interesting comparison as well just in the way that we kind of perceive and acknowledge art it feels like with something like the gorillas uh maybe just because it's not as well known uh i don't know i'm sure obviously the hardcore gorillas fans know this but
Speaker: I think the medium lends itself to something being pointed out as fake or not, perhaps, if that's like making sense. I think an avatar is different. It's a different mode by which you communicate that work of art. But at the end of the day, I think an avatar or someone like something like AI, ADA,
Speaker: is a vessel by which the art gets made. It's a type of medium. And maybe that's a way that we should kind of be thinking about this, whether or not it's art or not, I don't think makes sense. But maybe the mode by which it's made, it's an actual medium is different, if that's making sense. It does. I still think both should be called into question. But that's what I like about the description of Ada is that she creates contemporary art and she is contemporary art. So they are viewing her as
Speaker: a material and as an artist I just kind of think it's interesting like I feel like we can get really wrapped up in the fact that this is AI but I remember doing like experimental drawing practices in college where they would say that you had to you know make a drawing with anything else but your hands and that could look a different way like you could
Speaker: tie a you know pencil to a string and hang it on a tree branch and then whatever the marks made were the drawing or you could throw marbles on the paper and then whatever you know and dip them in ink and then whatever the ink left was the drawing and you could you could also go from there if you wanted but though that thought process like still lends itself to what I'm thinking in terms of AI it's still
Speaker: You're still using like a middleman to to make your art and so but we would still consider The practices that I just described as art. So why wouldn't The thing that Ada made be art Sometimes I try to ground myself and like what Josh says about music and technically anything that is music is just sound so I feel like
Speaker: or it lends itself to anything that, you know, you can experience and it transcends, you know, visuals. So, but she does have a TED talk and she talks very slowly. So have fun with that 12 minutes. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I think I think all of your points are, are super valid and really seek to the core of the question. I think at the end of the day, there is something about a fear of AI.
Speaker: And I think that's kind of natural. We've been programmed, if you will, as humans to be afraid of the unexpected. And we've grown up in this world of science fiction and robots and Westworld and iRobot. And there is that fear of something taking over. I think it's also
Speaker: not unrelated to protests to this kind of white fear that white people have about, you know, race, I think it's all very much related or that men have of women taking over the world, I think it's something different. And
Speaker: people in power don't like change. And I don't know much about the artist, you know, creating Ada herself, but I think all of those are kind of natural or unnatural things that coalesce.
Speaker: to be weary of and I've and to a certain extent I totally understand you know she it's weird that she was brought in front of this uh you know committee it's very weird that she's speaking on her own that she's giving TED talks that she has a website but I think it's just that buildup of something that's unexpected that we've been taught to fear that many people in those positions of power have been taught to fear people who are making the decisions about the art world
Speaker: could be uneasy about this, people in government can be easy about a robot taking it, you know, so it's just, it's unsurprising, but warranted, I don't know. Yeah, I also have just some, you know, notions, thoughts, if you will, just about the use of like, gendering AI and how it's interesting that - Oh, 100%. You know, we have to give AI like a human,
Speaker: presence and create a humanoid robot. So those are interesting conversations that I don't even have to express. You all kind of know where I'm going with that. We see the continual gendering of AI, especially on our phones and our everyday life. And so that's just maybe a conversation for another day, but you guys know what I'm getting at. Yeah.
Speaker: very valid questions and concerns, so we will see where Ada and AI brings us into some, you know, next generations of art worth protecting or worth throwing soup on. I don't know. Only time will tell. Will soup be thrown on Ada? Find out in the next episode. Well, that's game it. What's the Westworld theme song?
Speaker: theme music. Oh my gosh, I don't know. I only ever watched the first season of Westworld because that show is horrible. Well, I watched the second season and it was really bad, but there's also bad things happening behind the scenes like on the set. Real bad. Yeah, real, real bad, real bad. I don't know the theme music to Westworld. But yeah, I remember liking the intro a lot. I liked the visuals of it.
Speaker: But I've heard actually some good things about House of the Dragon. And when my friends were all talking about it, it made me sad because I'm not watching. But then I was like, stick it to the manneosis. Like, I will not watch. But the legend of the red. Can I tell you a secret?
Speaker: Yeah. Are you going to tell the average? Yeah. I'll let you guys on a little secret. I have been watching House of the Dragon. Do you like it?
Speaker: No, but I'm watching it. I mean, that's how I felt about She -Hulk. I finished She -Hulk and it was just like utter garbage. Here is the thing. After the first not so great episode, I mean, other things have happened. Obviously, it's extremely violent. There is a lot of miscarriages and stillbirths that happen that are shown throughout the series. So I will say that.
Speaker: really other than that like I really can't say that I have too many other thoughts about just like the show because we are very used to the violence and the incest and all that fun stuff that would happen with Game of Thrones so other than that like I'm not really finding any super triggering symbolism but there are some there are more so
Speaker: compact in this one season of Just showing births and the trauma that comes with that and throughout the series But I am watching it Yeah, okay. Well if you watch then I don't have to Even though I do I my friends were talking about it and I was like, oh this sucks I mean, I still don't really think you're missing anything stay strong. I
Speaker: Okay. I'll stay strong. Yeah. Stick it to the math. I'm just bored. So that's why I watched it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Great. Well, this was a fun recap. I'm glad we got to talk about all these things that I was, you know, like chomping at the bed to talk to you guys about. So, uh, hopefully we're kind of caught up on some of the major, major hot goss. And next episode, we have a very phenomenal guest, an APT repeater.
Speaker: an alumnus, if you will, of APT. And we are very excited to have this person on again. And I think you guys are going to be really jazzed for it. Really jazzed. Yeah, jazzed is like a new favorite word I like using. Good jazz. Jazzed and hundo pea.
Speaker: I just like, if I agree with someone, I'm like, I'm Hondo P. Because Hondo P reminds me of the 100 % emoji. And when I sometimes talk to people, you know, I like to think in visuals. And when I say that, I'm thinking about like, I hope that they understand the emoji I'm wanting to convey with my words.
Speaker: i literally can't with the fact that at like work i use outlook and so i can't even insert any good like shitty emojis so sometimes in my emails i put parentheses like insert thumbs up emoji in my work emails because i just have a hack for you fundamentally like cannot
Speaker: try using Emojipedia. It is something that my boss told me about and I use it in all of our, you know, content stuff. Interesting. Not because I can't just like, we use Outlook too and I can't just, you know,
Speaker: I like with emoji PD, you can copy paste all the emojis into things. Oh, interesting. I kind of like my verbal insert though. Yeah, your verbal inserts funny. I also started using howdy in some emails and I thought you'd be proud of me. Excellent. So proud of you. Yeah. Yeah. Signing off weird to like
Speaker: don't have a good day or like fuck off. Instead of yeah, I don't know. Fuck off. Or like don't have a great day. Yours and regret. Hope you're not doing well. Hope your day is as much as mine. Okay art pop tarts, hope you're not doing well. And we won't talk to you in two Tuesdays.
Speaker: Bye! Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me Bianca Martucci Fink and me Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrienne Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
Speaker: you
