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On this episode of the Bachelorette...
275 Plays1 year ago
This is shaping up to be the most dramatic season of APT yet, all thanks to this episode on the history of bachelor and bachelorette parties! There won't be any roses to hand out… but we will be offering up our hot takes on recent public art installments in our Art Newz segment.
For more APT, click here!
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Transcript
Upcoming Wedding and Party Planning
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to our Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. Today we will be getting a little spicy.
00:00:11
Speaker
as we get into the history of bachelorette and bachelor parties. As many of you know, 2023 is a wedding central station here on APT because your host, yours truly, Gianna, and boy of APT, Phoebe and Theveninum, are getting married. But before the wedding, there's the batch, so let's party.
Winter Storms and Work-from-Home Fashion
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello, hello Bianca, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you? I'm freezing my butt off over here in Boston this weekend, but other than that. Yeah, I was laughing because, so I worked from home all this week because Oklahoma got hit with just a little bit of that ice storm. I know Texas got hit like way heavier. It wasn't nearly as bad here, but just due to like our lack of four wheel drive in Oklahoma, everything,
00:01:04
Speaker
kind of shuts down. So I was working from home, and I had an evening meeting for work. And I was laughing because I felt like way over trust for this meeting. But I was like, I don't know, I was just happy to like put on clothes, I guess. So everyone was like, Oh, my, you look so great. I was like, Well, you know, like,
00:01:25
Speaker
I haven't really worn human clothes this week, so I just thought I'd make an effort. And I'm actually wearing the same sweater right now. I've been wearing the same sweater this entire week, I feel like. It's just been my work from home sweater, because if I wear a sports bra or no bra, I feel like you can't really... It's all fine. It covers all of the basis. During the winter, during the summer, it's a little bit different, because my tops are a little bit lighter.
00:01:54
Speaker
But in the winter, the girlfriend collective bralettes have really been a game changer in the work from home. Like I can just wear those all day under a sweater and it's great. And then I invested recently in some very tall sweat pants. And so, you know, it's really changed the work from home outfit game.
00:02:17
Speaker
That's great. I always need to up my lounge wear and my active wear game. And I feel like I have been catfished like the past several times I've bought something from the Target athleisure section.
Target's Athleisure Mishap
00:02:32
Speaker
Like I'm actually wearing these pants right now and I bought them. This is not going to tie together, guys. This is Segueing into Bachelorette content.
00:02:41
Speaker
I bought them because they're white and I was like, oh, this is cute. I'm going to be like white sporty spice on the Bachelorette trip and I'm going to buy these white pants and they're going to be so cute. You foolish of me. So I bought these white pants. It was also before I went to Malaysia and so I wore them on the airplane and Phoebe was like seriously worried that they were cutting off my circulation because
00:03:06
Speaker
I'm too tall, so when I sit down, they have cuffs on the bottom around the ankle, but they ride up to my calf. I'm sorry, these are sweatpants? They're like joggers.
00:03:19
Speaker
And they were so tight, they were cutting off. They're like, I don't know. And I thought they'd be nice because they, I don't know how to explain it. It's like the bottoms are like cuffed and it's got like two layers too. So it's nice because it's like, you know, keeps you like warm in the winter, cool in the summer type dealio. But I don't know. They're just like, they're too tight on the bottom when I sit down because I'm too damn tall. And then all of a sudden, I don't know. They're already like,
00:03:45
Speaker
stained or something. And like, right now, like this weekend, I have to go bleach them because I don't know what this like random like black mark. It's literally I'm never buying like white athletes are wearing like every good. It's been a nightmare. I just wanted to be like
00:04:03
Speaker
Like the cool, comfy, cozy kind of girl looked at the airport and said, you know what? These fucking pants from Target are cutting off my circulation and have barely lasted two months. So I don't know. This is a PSA. Has anyone else been catfished by the Target athletes or wear a section? That's very interesting. I don't know. I did buy a pair of lounge pants for the bachelorette party. And last night, too, I was shopping.
00:04:31
Speaker
because I was like, I need a cute outfit for our hike. I, yeah, it's just, it might not happen. So I really tried and listen, I don't, January just takes a lot out of me in general. And so I just barely made it out alive. And so if I, you know, make it to the bachelorette party, that'll just be a win. So, you know, if I look cute, that's just, that's a plus. No, I'm super excited. We will get into more bachelorette party.
00:05:00
Speaker
content here shortly, but I feel like there's also been a lot of other stuff going on the past week.
Auction House Drama - A Reality Show Idea?
00:05:06
Speaker
Yes, so we have a rather lengthy art news story for today's episode, but there was a lot of art news that happened over the past several weeks. Bianca
00:05:17
Speaker
tuned in for a live auction stream of the Sotheby's master's painting. Like extravaganza, tell us about it. So we've had Daria Foner on our show before. If you'll recall, she talked about all about her past experience at the Morgan Library, working on research,
00:05:40
Speaker
for Belle Green. And if you will recall, she now works at Sotheby's in the old master's department. And this past week, they had their live auction. So there was a fascinating YouTube live stream of the show of the show. And it literally was so interesting. It really was like reality show.
00:06:06
Speaker
I would die to have a reality show of like the ins and outs of auction houses, real housewives of Sotheby's. You know, also, I feel like I'm going to get into this, get into this in a little bit, but there's been so much satire in terms of like art history and history content that I feel like there needs to be some kind of satire involved with like auction houses.
00:06:31
Speaker
Oh my god, 100%. No, I feel like a show about this would be amazing. Like, I, Andrew and I started watching The Bear because it, you know, it's been up for nominations, all this stuff like that, the inner workings of kitchen.
00:06:43
Speaker
And I think the inner workings of an auction house or the inner workings of our world, I'm sorry, it's long overdue. We have Abbott Elementary, we have the office, we've got Parks and Rec, we've got government work. Where's the museum? Where's the auction house? I know, I think they're doing some kind of mockumentary type office thing about a car dealership. And I'm like, where's my auction house? Where's my museum? They just truly- Bianca, they just did on CBS Saturday,
00:07:12
Speaker
this morning, they just did this segment about this kind of like conspiracy theory ish about how the Natural History Museum in New York dumped woolly mammoth bones in the East River because they simply didn't have enough space for them. And I mean, like how how fantastic would that be if there was like a mockumentary office parks and risk esque
00:07:37
Speaker
show that took place in the Natural History Museum and your Michael Scott character when diving in the East River. No, I can make sure like Andy Dwyer just like dumping bones. That sounds amazing. And I want Daria Foner to lead the charge because first of all, she was looking fucking fabulous on the screen. Let me tell you, the outfit game was on fire. And that was partly why I was like, holy shit, like these people look incredible.
00:08:06
Speaker
talking on the phone to the people who were buying the pieces and it was just like, I want like a side cut.
00:08:12
Speaker
to where we get the other person like we don't know who it is yet but then we get to hear their voice like on the phone like bit this much bit this much and then we get like another cut to the other person who's on the phone like the competing because they were sometimes when I'm watching the auction and there are like two people who can't see they're not in the audience but they're on the phone like calling in and it's like back and forth and then the auctioneer is like okay like 150,000 here 160,000 180,000
00:08:39
Speaker
$190,000 and I was like oh my god I mean the suspense is truly so exciting and I've never really sat down to watch a whole kind of auction before normally I just get that you know the highlights afterwards and what is the biggest thing that sold but it was so exciting to watch I was like
00:08:58
Speaker
I've got to fucking produce this show. Oh my god. I will say obviously I've never worked for an auction house that is you know selling works of art but since I work in philanthropy I've worked
00:09:11
Speaker
to live auctions fundraisers and I'll be doing my next one in April and I feel like there's nothing that stresses me out more than a live auction like even though like there's just something about the intensity the auctioneer having to
00:09:29
Speaker
be a runner to make sure that you're aware of the price, who is the bidder going up to them. You basically have to have them like sign a contract like in the moment that basically says like you have consented to this purchase and like you have to like follow through with this. It's honestly um
00:09:46
Speaker
like it stresses me out like I do not blink the entire time. It is also kind of like a Downton Abbey situation where you have the people who are like working behind the scenes like working their asses off and then you just have these people come in like these money bags like spending all this fucking dough like it's I just I need this happen. I know we have a few people in our APT fam who work for auction houses and Gianna and I are like all over this we definitely want to have like more conversations about
00:10:16
Speaker
auctions in the art market. But I just, I'm watching this like, oh my God, this is so exciting.
00:10:23
Speaker
You know who loves live auctions is mom, because I was telling her how much in the moment it stresses me out. It's really fun to be a part of and put on, but in the moment when you're responsible for the event, I'm like, mom, this is stressful. And I'm telling her about my work life. And she's like, I love live auctions. It's so great. The other thing about watching this was they were
00:10:48
Speaker
there were pieces that sold for like a fuck ton of money, right? But there were other ones that only sold for like, I don't know, if some of them may have been, I think some of them were under $100,000. And when they were like, $60,000, I was like, wow, $60,000. I'm gonna call him Daria. I was like, there was something about like,
00:11:13
Speaker
But it is like truly an exorbitant amount of money that these people were spending. And that's, you know, it was it was great to watch and see like what went for different prices and like what ended up going to like a bidding war. But when one thing would come up, that was the here's the starting price. It only had like a couple bids or whatever. I was like, why is this number so low? Because the other ones were got so high. But then when a low one came in, I was like,
00:11:41
Speaker
I can afford like, I can buy that. There was this like, a part of me that was like, there was this odd facade that was put on because some of the prices were so extreme, like very high and then like not low lows, but they were low. I could technically buy that. However, I would have nothing left.
00:12:05
Speaker
Like I could I could do it and that button should I? And then it reminded me of that iconic scene in Tomb Raider where she goes to the auction and she waves at her friend and then She like tries to get out of the bed, you know Okay. Do you know what I always think about is what is that? There's that con artist movie with Sigourney Weaver Sigourney Weaver and the girl from
00:12:34
Speaker
What is it like ghost or she like can see more? Okay, it's called Heartbreakers. And it was that movie that was like always on TV on like the weekends. And so I just watch it. It's a mother daughter duo. Yeah, okay. It's Jennifer Love Hewitt.
00:12:50
Speaker
What was she in? She was in Ghost Whisperer. Ghost Whisperer, yes. And so they are like conning this like, you know, old man, rich man. And so Sigourney Weaver accidentally ends up buying this statue.
00:13:07
Speaker
And so she has to like trick them into like breaking it so she doesn't have to buy it. Oh my god. It's so funny. Oh my gosh. So that's hilarious. Anyways, that's an excellent movie. You know, for like the early 2000s, like 90s kids who were like home during the weekends, you know, watching that, you know, Saturday midday show, you know. Yeah. So so the auction, Sotheby's auction was
00:13:34
Speaker
was a really exciting thing that happened to me this past week and to Daria and everyone who worked really hard on these auctions and for the people who bought all this work because that was cool. Congratulations to them. APT, Auction House, satire screenplay coming your way.
Schiaparelli Fashion Show and Faux Taxidermy
00:13:48
Speaker
Holy shit. So we also had the Schiaparelli-Hakkator summer show with these
00:13:56
Speaker
faux taxidermy looks. We had Kylie Jenner coming in with this hot girl, rich girl energy wearing one of the faux taxidermy lion outfits that debuted on the runway, so I just cannot
00:14:11
Speaker
wrap my head around that amount of wealth and influence that she was sporting that look. I think just the work too, like they had to make so many of those for people to wear in the audience and then wear on the runway. It was pretty incredible. So all of the UFO taxidermy looks, mostly the ones that I saw were lions. I think there were some other like, there's like some jaguars and like leopard
00:14:38
Speaker
Right. So they were all handmade as is most of, as is most of, as is all of, you know, these hakatoru scaparelli looks with, you know, their handmade jewelry. So it just kind of followed that vein of everything they do and how it's so sculptural, which is why we just love them so much. But Bianca, I just could not help but think
00:15:01
Speaker
what Foster's hot takes were on these looks. And I feel as though you reached out to him. I did. Well, I saw Gianna's comments here in our document. And it just says, I really want to hear Foster's hot takes. And I was like, I'm gonna make that happen for you, girl. And so I sat down at him. And first of all, he he responded and was like, Yeah, I I saw something about these, uh,
00:15:28
Speaker
costumes or what? I love him. And it was just the cutest thing in the entire thing. It made me laugh so much that he was like, yeah, these costumes. I mean, he's not wrong. He's not wrong. It was just like so funny. I was like, yes. But yeah, okay. Also, just so everyone remembers Foster W. Krupp is our taxidermy specialist here on ABT.
00:15:56
Speaker
If you haven't listened to his conversation yet, be sure to do so. His oral take was how it was very impressive how far faux taxidermy has come because there was a time when you could very easily tell that
00:16:16
Speaker
a taxidermy specimen was in fact fake. And so just the fact that it's really interesting because you would think like art and sculpture in itself is so far developed, you know, like if we had the statue of David, you know, premiere 500 years ago or whatever, then how is it that we struggled to make taxidermy models, I suppose, like it just kind of it just seems interesting that his
00:16:47
Speaker
first take was wow like faux taxidermy has really come far and in just like a sculptural and artistic sense how someone was able to design them because they they just looked incredible I mean it that's so interesting too because what we also spoke about with Foster in our taxidermy episode was just how taxidermy in general has come a really long way because it the the only like real part that I think is
00:17:18
Speaker
different with faux taxidermy in terms of my understanding of like modern day practices is really that skin right and that fur. Some armatures used to use like the bones to make the armature. But my understanding is that that's not really how that practice is done anymore. So that armature and those processes are very similar if not the same. And
00:17:43
Speaker
It was really interesting for me because in college, my sculpture professor worked with the animal forum and she was always making these really interesting armatures, kind of welding the internal structure and then building with like foam and other synthetic material on top of that. And if you go to Schaperly's Instagram, you can kind of see some of the behind the scenes right now of how they built out those armatures for the lion. And it's just really interesting.
00:18:12
Speaker
It also comes up on my TikTok now too. There is this woman that mainly does deer taxidermy and I see the armatures and they look... It's a very interesting process and although I fear it, I am finding this fascination with it.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was just I mean, it was just super interesting and uh He said he's not the biggest fan of people wearing animals He just said it seems like a little bit weird, but that he said that wasn't the weirdest thing there What it was the weirdest thing there in your opinion Bianca Um Honestly, I don't find I just didn't find it that odd. I just I thought it was like extremely impressive I don't even know that like for me doja cats
00:19:03
Speaker
appearance was like she was one of the Schiaparelli faces that we see in their like in their handbags and their jewelry and their earrings like in their regular clothing. She just was one of their metalwork pieces like brought to life. And so I didn't find it weird because it was just so in vain. It was like the epitome of what they do instead of instead of forming
00:19:27
Speaker
metal into a body, they were like forming this body into metal. Oh, that was yummy. The way that you said that. I liked that. It does because to me, I just thought it was so interesting, just particularly because I love the content of her just also sitting in like the same row as Kylie and just kind of the comparison of their two outfits.
00:19:55
Speaker
you know, Kylie over here with like this, you know, mountain lion's head and then people saying that Dojo was like a bloody tampon. So to me just, it was interesting that Kylie was sporting one of the looks on the runway, but then Dojo was just a standalone. And so I was trying to just figure out, I guess, that outfit and that place
00:20:19
Speaker
and how that placed within the setting and the content that we received for the summer show.
Artistic Boldness in Fashion - Schiaparelli vs Chanel
00:20:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think she was just the epitome of everything that Danielle has been bringing to the brand. I liked the, I think the kind of overwhelming presence of the color too was very, it was really nice to also see something
00:20:46
Speaker
that I felt like was kind of different for scalper really too. And I felt like it was this, I don't know, this moment. So I always love.
00:20:54
Speaker
to think about when we look back on that moment or five years from now when Doja is doing her little Vogue moment, her little flip book and looking back on her looks, that one better be in there. Oh, 100%. That's an iconic look. Yeah. I hope we see it at the mecca. Do you want to tell everyone what you said? We've had so many good ideas in this episode. I'm afraid that people are going to steal them because we need to start working on our screenplay.
00:21:22
Speaker
for the mockumentary live auction house. Let's start working on our pilot. But Bianca and I have talked so much about our affinity for Schiaparelli and how we just still can't wrap our heads around
00:21:40
Speaker
this particular glorification of the person Chanel. And we've talked about on the episode with our Nazi-Asian Coco Chanel episode that she notoriously referred to Schiaparelli as the Italian. And so I so- As a derogatory term.
00:21:58
Speaker
Fucking rude. Don't be fucking rude. I am just gonna be so so upset if just it's it's I'm gonna be livid if Scott really does not put someone like Lady Gaga or Ariana in a dress that says the Italian
00:22:19
Speaker
That is going to be the missed opportunity of our entire lifetime. And I just don't know how to phrase it any other way. Somebody needs to speak about the history of these two designers, and I need someone to stir the fucking pot.
00:22:36
Speaker
Oh my god and Daniel's the perfect person to do that. Put fucking Gaga in a gorgeous garment with like embroidered jewels metal that reads the Italian and I love it because like you know like Kris Jenner is gonna come up sporting like should
00:22:53
Speaker
now like to the full extent possible like she will be shitting pearls at night and I just I need Gaga to like come out with this dress that says the Italian and give everybody the stank eye oh my god but I just like I didn't I like it's just about it's just about bringing the the history of the person yeah like and like it just is unfortunate that Karl Lagerfeld
00:23:22
Speaker
fell in a very unflattering vein as far as a person and his personal beliefs you know it's just it's just it's all a little icky if you ask me it's all quite icky so um so i'm just that is why i will be tuning in for the mekular so everybody knows
00:23:49
Speaker
Well this weekend as well right now we are recording on february 4th and so we will have the grammys this weekend, oscar nominations are out, obviously grammy nominations are out so when we come in for our next episode
00:24:06
Speaker
we will be recapping a little bit of the Grammys, just giving you guys our hot takes. Before we get into art news, Bianca, I know that you have not started watching it, but if any of the art pop charts have started watching Chunk on Earth, please slide into my DMs because I just finished watching the first episode and I am thoroughly enjoying it.
00:24:32
Speaker
All right, so there has been a lot of coverage on this art news story, but coming at you from the New York Times is the article that I found most helpful to reference the story.
Shaiza Sikander's Sculpture and Women's Rights
00:24:45
Speaker
Frenzied commuters in New York's Flat Iron District have stopped in their tracks in recent days by an unlikely apparition near Moses, Confucius, and Zoroaster. Standing atop the grandiose state courthouse is a shimmering golden eight-foot female sculpture emerging from a pink lotus flower and wearing Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's signature lace collar.
00:25:10
Speaker
Staring regally ahead with her hair braided like spiraling horns, the sculpture, installed as part of an exhibition that opened later that week, is the first female to adorn one of the courthouse's ten plinths, dominated for more than a century by now weathered statues representing great lawgivers throughout the ages.
00:25:30
Speaker
all of them men. Shaiza Sikander, the paradigm-busting Pakistani-American artist behind the work, said the sculpture was part of an urgent and necessary cultural reckoning underway as New York, along with cities around the world, reconsidered traditional representations of power and public spaces, and recast civic structures to better reflect 21st century social moors.
00:25:55
Speaker
Coming from her artist statement from her website, Sikandar says that she is a citizen of the world. Over the course of three decades, Sikandar has developed a multimedia practice that embraces the production of compelling objects that practically and theoretically transcend borders. Her meaningful artistic and social collaborations probe contested histories of colonialism, mechanisms of power, notions of language and migration.
00:26:25
Speaker
Sikandar is internationally renowned for a pioneering practice that takes classical Indo-Persian miniature paintings as its point of departure and influx it with contemporary South Asian American feminist and Muslim perspectives. Going back to the New York Times article, Sikandar describes the sculpture as quote, a fierce woman and a form of resistance in a space that has historically been dominated by patriarchal representation.
00:26:52
Speaker
She also says that the work is called now because it was needed now at a time when women's reproductive rights were under siege after the US Supreme Court in June overturned the constitutional right to abortion. It is not the first time this court, the appellate division, first judicial department of the New York State Supreme Court has changed the lineup of figures presiding over the rooftop.
00:27:16
Speaker
In 1955, the court removed a turn-of-the-century, eight-foot-tall marble statue of the Prophet Muhammad, when Pakistani, Egyptian, and Indonesian embassies asked the State Department to intervene. Many Muslims have deeply held religious beliefs that prohibit depictions of the Prophet. To compensate for the visual gap left at the commanding southwest corner of the building, seven statues were shifted one pedestal westward, leaving Zoaster in place of Muhammad.
00:27:46
Speaker
The Eastmost pedestal, once occupied by Justinian, was left vacant. That is where Sikander's sculpture presides now. Sikander emphasizes that Muhammad's removal and her installation were completely unrelated, quote, saying, my figure is not replacing anyone or canceling anyone. Much as Justice Ginsburg wore her lace collar to recast a historically male uniform and proudly reclaim it for her gender,
00:28:15
Speaker
Sikander said her stylized sculpture was aimed at feminizing a building that was commissioned in 1896. The now sculpture is actually in dialogue with another 18-foot sculpture of the powerful woman by Sikander, also called Witness, and is adjacent Madison Square Park.
00:28:35
Speaker
Sikander said that the sculpture wore a hoop skirt inspired by the stained glass dome of the courthouse, symbolizing the need to quote, break the legal glass ceiling. The dome concept is important. While the courthouse has allegorical female figures, no actual figures of female judges or justices have previously
00:28:58
Speaker
existed outside or inside of the courthouse. Only one woman, Betty Weinberg-Ellerin, a trailblazing judge and the first woman to be appointed presiding justice of the appellate division,
00:29:10
Speaker
was named on the courtroom's ornate stained glass ceiling dome on a section honoring those who had held the position. One of those names on the dome also includes Roger Brooke Taney, the US Supreme Court Justice who wrote the racist Dred Scott decision which ruled that African Americans were not and could not be citizens.
00:29:32
Speaker
Justice Diane T. Renwick, the first Black female justice at the Appelike Division First Department, who chairs the committee examining issues of diversity, said that in the wake of the killing of George Floyd in 2020, the court had undertaken a long overdue effort to address gender and racial bias since the courthouse
00:29:51
Speaker
had been built at a time when women and people of color were erased and overlooked. She and other justices want Tanning's name removed from the dome and said that talks were underway to expunge his name and potentially place it in the court's library with an explanatory note describing his role in American history. Quote, the fact that his name is in the dome is outrageous, said Justice Renwick. We don't want to erase the art. We want to contextualize it.
00:30:21
Speaker
So there is a lot more to this article. We will link it for you if you'd like to read into it further. It does have some really great visuals that you can reference. I like that it also shows the internal architecture of the courthouse because you can really see
00:30:37
Speaker
in the sculpture Witness, how it also has these really beautiful graphic details that reflect that stained glass, but otherwise they look very similar in this almost female goddess character of sorts that she's created seems to be replicated a lot throughout her body of work.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah, this is really beautiful. I really like it. And I also keep thinking about this point that the artist makes talking about how female figures in history are these like allegorical figures. Our figure of justice is a woman carrying, you know, two scales. So many of our, I guess I will call them, well, I don't know what to call them, liberties, I want to say, but
00:31:28
Speaker
that is probably not the right word, are characterized by female figures yet so ignored in systems across the United States and across the globe. But I do find it really interesting that she specifically calls that out. Because I think she's not wanting to conflate the two. Like we want women in the justice system, our rights have been taken away, stop thinking of us as this allegorical figure when you
00:31:55
Speaker
you know, consistently don't pay us any any attention. Yeah, that's interesting. But it's interesting that she does that by creating an allegorical figure. How do we feel about that? Like I I'm kind of it's interesting. Right. Yeah, I don't know. I was thinking about that as well, because you know what this reminded me of a little bit was the fearless girl and how that's been moved so much and how, you know,
00:32:25
Speaker
she was in front of the bull in New York and then she was facing the, what was it, the stock exchange building and how? I think she's still in front of the stock exchange. Is she there? Because she was moved to the bull. That was temporary. No, she was placed in front of the bull at first and then moved in front of the stock exchange. And so now she's at the stock exchange permanently. I guess I think so. I guess I was just thinking about even this idea of the fearless girl and how
00:32:53
Speaker
she is also this allegorical figure as well and how we have been, I don't want to say we have been reimagining and also rethinking so much of public art in the past two years that I think. Is it a problem that we keep creating allegorical figures instead of
00:33:21
Speaker
Depicting real women. I guess there are women there are women judges. There are women in the court. There are few but they Exist they do and I guess that's that's why I find this work interesting because she The now sculpture is this like blend of all these kind of
00:33:45
Speaker
historical attributes as well as the artist's own creation of this allegory. It's interesting because one of the most predominant visuals as she described was the iconic Ruth Bader Ginsburg collar.
00:34:06
Speaker
So should we stop kind of glorifying people and public works of art together? Is it easier to kind of create an allegory? Like, do I want a sculpture on top of this courthouse of Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Because although I love her and appreciate everything that she did for us, I also she was also a person and is glorifying people like that. Also just an issue. Yeah, that's actually really interesting, Gianna. I
00:34:36
Speaker
I'm not sure where I land on this. I think maybe I'm 50-50 because I think, I don't know, because I guess I'm just thinking about like in the future, there are things about people's past that we choose to ignore. Coco Chanel, for example, like, you know, she's a part of history. Her name is a living legacy, but she had a problematic past.
00:35:05
Speaker
200 years, are these, you know, figures going to be uncovered in a similar way? Like, are truths about these people still going to be uncovered? Or, you know, there are things that people do today that will probably not be appropriate in 200 years. Yes, and I think for me, like,
00:35:30
Speaker
you know, there is a human component to, you know, a monument or a statue of a real life person, even though that person had historical significance, there is also that that human moment. And I think when you create a public work of art, something happens where
00:35:52
Speaker
intentionally or unintentionally like you are encapsulating all of that and so you do have to be very careful but then also where do I land because although you know we have all these historical figures and statues of men if we don't have any of women and so then we just end up with the allegory kind of cliche but I don't like I don't know where I I don't know what to do like I don't know where I stand that's how I am feeling I mean we can
00:36:18
Speaker
This may be a good segue to bring up the MLK statue in the Boston Common? Yes.
MLK Memorial in Boston - Public Art Debate
00:36:24
Speaker
So to keep this art new segment going in terms of public works of art, we wanted to speak about artist Hank Willis Thomas's memorial or monument. It has been kind of described as both, which we can talk about.
00:36:39
Speaker
to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., unveiled in the Boston Commons in the Freedom Plaza, and Bianca lives very, very close. So that I did not see Kim Kardashian because I was gone that day. Oh, well then we should just not talk about this story at all then.
00:36:58
Speaker
So the monument honors the local civil rights figure. It's a 20 foot tall, 40 foot wide bronze sculpture statue? Question mark? That was inspired by a photograph of Dr. King embracing his wife Coretta Scott King after winning the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964.
00:37:23
Speaker
So, to kind of describe what's been going on on the internet, this hyper-allergic article states that the image of the sculpture on social media has drawn mixed reactions with some praising the artist's design and others wondering about the interpretation of King's legacy, going so far as to accuse the work of resembling a phallus.
00:37:45
Speaker
So some, including members of the King family, applauded the commemoration of the famed civil rights leader who gave a speech in 1964 on the comments about de facto segregation and unequal schooling. So during the unveiling ceremony, Martin Luther King III said that the monument represents his parents' love for the city and its abolitionist past, and that it memorializes their relationship.
00:38:12
Speaker
as well, because a couple met while King attended Boston University School of Theology, and Scott King attended the New England Conservatory of Music. So, Bianca, you have been able to see this in person. Stayed quite a bit, yeah. So let's share our thoughts. Obviously, it is very intimate. And although there have been a lot of jokes and a lot of comments about how this sculpture
00:38:42
Speaker
lends itself to like sexual jokes. My main kind of just thought about it was this is a very intimate moment blown up on such a large scale and in such a public space that I am just having a hard time kind of wrapping my mind around that.
00:39:11
Speaker
I don't know, it's the scale of it all. Yeah, I'm not a fan of it visually. I'll say that. But I do think it's important, obviously, as Jana read from the article, if you've ever been to Boston or New England, there are a lot of revolutionary war monuments. So I am
00:39:39
Speaker
happy that the Boston Common is incorporating new works into the public space. It's America's first public park. It's also one of the first new public works of art that's gone in the Common in like over 30 years or something like that. Like the Common does not make these installations happen frequently and it's a very big deal when change is made to the Common. So there are you know kind of
00:40:09
Speaker
old timey, I suppose, monuments and sculptures depicting, you know, various white male figures from New England's history, kind of all over Boston. So I think that this is a very, very important edition. I am not a fan of the of the rendering of it. But that's also interesting because we were just talking about these kind of allegorical figures. And without the faces of
00:40:37
Speaker
Coretta and MLK, there is that almost kind of allegory to it. Like you lose the personhood a little bit in their lack of a profile. So that's also interesting. And it kind of boils down to this, like you said, very intimate moment between two people. That seems so physical.
00:41:04
Speaker
And because there are these two very iconic historical figures of the civil rights era in the United States, it kind of wipes that away for me. And it's interesting because we were just talking about like, well, should we have these figures be commemorated in our public spaces? Should we know who these people are? Should we bring light to them? But then in this piece in particular, when that's stripped away, I'm just not a fan of how it's
00:41:33
Speaker
rendered. Yeah, there was also like a joke about how like we have yet to actually kind of like just encapsulate like a monument that is maybe
00:41:50
Speaker
more straightforward, maybe more realistic of Dr. Martin Luther King and how we just kind of keep doing him a little bit dirty and how one of his other monuments, the joke was like this man marched for freedom and they didn't give him legs in this sculpture.
00:42:08
Speaker
And it just is painful. And I think that these people that are so important and that we should have these holistic and kind of fair representations of them in public spaces.
00:42:29
Speaker
I think this one is also very complex. I can't really speak to the ins and outs of their relationship, but know that they had a very complex relationship. To, again, display that on such a grandiose scale, I just- In the intimate manner that it is. In a very intimate manner that it is.
00:42:54
Speaker
I'm just not sure. That's why it's also interesting, Bianca, that this is described as not just a monument, but also a memorial because I've only experienced this piece as a viewer on my phone through images. I'm getting to see this from all different angles at the same time. I'm getting to see it from an aerial view.
00:43:17
Speaker
and to really experience it from the actual, you know, physical point of view, I think will be really interesting because I don't really think that you can get the whole, you can't really get the whole picture, it's too big. And so I think that also sometimes, sometimes with public works of art, man, I just don't, we really don't think about that sometimes. As much as like we've talked about like the art viewing relationship,
00:43:47
Speaker
just sometimes with public art, man, I just feel like we just never something happens and that one person out that that person was supposed to be responsible for that and check off the box. Oh, we didn't think about the viewer. We just skip over that step. Well, if you're able to see it in person, Bianca, let us know. Oh, I see it all the time.
00:44:06
Speaker
Have you been able to get up close to it? Have you walked over yet? Okay, you have. I can take some pictures for the for the our stories. Yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just always like our ongoing conversation just about public art and I don't like just want to leave us with that like public art man. I know. I feel I'm just thinking like, is there a right way to do public art? I don't know. Like, am I being too picky about like, oh, this is an allegory, but this is too real. And this is you know, like, is there ever is there such a
00:44:35
Speaker
a thing as the perfect piece of public art. Like you're not going to please everybody. It's a public space. Yeah. Because also to play devil's advocate too. And then we can stop talking about this. I promise we can get into the bachelor of content. But I am also tired of like boring works of public art. And it's just like a statue. And I'm just going to definitely isn't boring. I mean, I like that it's creating a conversation for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
00:44:57
Speaker
Public art, that's what we leave you with today. And now, private art. I think we should just let you sit in silence with that for a little bit and we can take a little break. And when we come back, we will be talking about Bachelorette content. The private sector, if you will.
Gianna's Bachelorette Party Planning
00:45:45
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. In addition to Gianna's batch, you know, it's also Valentine's Day coming up, so we thought we'd spend the rest of this time getting a little spicy, heating things up here on APT. I hope everyone has a lovely Valentine's Day. I would love for all of you to be my Valentine. Oh, that's nice. Gianna, how excited are you for the bachelorette party? It is now two weeks away as we're recording.
00:46:13
Speaker
So excited. I, if everyone didn't know this already, which I'm sure you have gathered at this point, I may spoil Brat, and I've really never felt more spoiled in my life. Bianca, maid of honor over here, has really just been killing it. This is
00:46:36
Speaker
also just thinking of like, you know, spicy and like Valentine's Day like Bianca is her love language is like gift giving is very much like doing these types of things like for people and
00:46:51
Speaker
You're very good at it and you go all in. I told Gianna this is the role I was born to play. It truly is. It's kind of terrifying. It's overwhelming. I hope that I receive an Academy Award for this role. I think you will. My role in Gianna's bachelorette party is... I feel like you're one of those people that was just born with a purpose and you just...
00:47:19
Speaker
I just you have this like direction of my planner I don't know like you just like you you're just good at it and I don't I Don't know how to like it's just you just do a lot and it's just like overwhelming But I appreciate it and I'm excited about talk about wedding stuff I do scared Gianna like by the end of the conversation. She's like
00:47:48
Speaker
sunken down into the chair. And I'm like, I'm not trying to scare you. I just need a good decision. I've been, yeah, it's been crippling. You were truly being a trooper. You were like the Phoebe buffet to my Monica with her headset and clipboard. Like, I just, I don't really want to give you that set. I think Andrew asked me if I was going to wear a headset to your wedding. I said I might.
00:48:18
Speaker
The intensity is real, but you're doing a fantastic job. Hey, we're making moves. Yeah, I think that's a perfect way to describe it. It's very much like Monica Geller Organization Central over here. I've got a little bit of like Rachel Phoebe energy that's just kind of like, I don't know.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm so excited. We'll have to post some photos for you guys of the batch after it takes place. I was telling Gianna, I just wanted to be here already. We spent so much time planning and I just like, it's like, this is like Christmas. I just wanted to be here. Yes, we wanted to be here and also like,
00:49:05
Speaker
Gianna wants to do it. I want it to be done also. I don't want to forget to check that box. Oh, it's checked. Can look at public work of art from all angles. Check. Done with bachelorette party. Check. All done. Now I can pick out decorations from here. Check. It's just another thing everyone planning a wedding just
00:49:31
Speaker
you're just like crippled with all the decisions that you have to make. And so it's been really nice to just have Bianca be able to do this for me. And also why she is taking the lead on this bachelorette kind of content since you're the one that's been doing everything for the shindig. Yeah, no, I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. Question for you. Gianna, when you think about a bachelorette party,
00:49:56
Speaker
what is the first thing that comes to mind? Are there certain iconic visuals or moments from pop culture that immediately kind of come to mind? Because we talked about this when we started planning, we were like, what is the ideal bachelorette party for you?
00:50:11
Speaker
It's such a, like you said, it's part of the planning process, but it's not required to get married. Over the past 15 years or whatever, the iconography of a bachelor and bachelorette party has been shaped by pop culture. We definitely have the hangover as one of those kind of iconic bachelor
00:50:34
Speaker
party films that we got bridesmaids. We have them depicted in television shows. Cece's Bachelorette Party is an iconic episode. We have Phoebe's Bachelorette Party with the iconic appearance of Danny DeVito. There are certain
00:50:51
Speaker
elements that we continually see visualized over and over, but it's now that we're finally putting them in place, it's been interesting to see how those manifested and where those ideas really come up. Well, why do you need a bachelorette party? Or why do we have to go on a trip? Or what does the trip look like? Or where are we going? Or what is involved? Because we've been ingrained to see those in other visuals. Yeah, and it's interesting because I feel like every
00:51:17
Speaker
all of my visuals are like they're very modern, right? And we've talked about, you know, we can see like a history of wedding portraiture, of bridal history of marriage, like there's a lot of documentation about that. But in terms of this concept of a bachelor and a bachelorette party, those those all feel like very like modern day pieces of iconography. I also think of the proposal
00:51:44
Speaker
and Sandra Bullock and Betty White going to the one bar in Alaska. Iconic.
00:51:53
Speaker
Oh, that's a good one. So I have a little history on bachelor and bachelorette parties that I will bring you. It won't be too long.
Evolution of Pre-Wedding Parties - A Historical Perspective
00:52:03
Speaker
A lovely article from Museum Hack actually will help us dive into the history of these parties from a very Western point of view. There is a, I was reading a few articles about different traditions across the globe, where they come from in different cultures, how they manifest and
00:52:21
Speaker
There is a book I found if any of you are getting married soon, if you're engaged. It's called Lucky and Love, Traditions, Customs, and Rituals to Personalize Your Wedding. It's from 2018, so I haven't bought it. I'm not sure necessarily all of the contents, but
00:52:40
Speaker
It looked really interesting, and in this book there were different kind of cultural backgrounds or traditions for you to implement in your wedding process, so I thought that was kind of cute. But this Museum Act article is from, you know, largely the Western marriage tradition world. So before we can discuss the lady version of a pre-wedding party, we have to discuss the, you know, kind of default bachelor party.
00:53:08
Speaker
Which, I'm excited to hear about the Even's Watcher Friday because I think it's just going to be really cute and nice. I'm like, I think he's going hiking. That's all she wrote. So this actually looks back at the 5th century BCE when the Spartans held parties for their to-be-wed friends consisting of dinner and a toast. That sounds nice.
00:53:36
Speaker
In the 14th century, the term bachelor first comes into popular use as describing an unmarried man thanks to Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. In 1896, a stag party thrown by Herbert Seeley for his brother
00:53:57
Speaker
is raided by the police after hearing rumors that a nude belly dancer would be performing. And this is actually the grandson of P.T. Barnum. And this would feature a, quote, 17-course dinner, music and drinking, scantily clad dancing girls would hand out gifts for each of the guests, and Herbert Barnum Sealy drew up the guest list from this kind of who's who of society at the time.
00:54:27
Speaker
So then I was like this is so interesting. All of a sudden P.T. Barnum's grandson throws a bachelor party for his brother and this becomes like big New York news. There's all these kind of historical archives about this one bachelor party. So then I discovered this very interesting story about the belly dancer who was at this party and this seems to
00:54:57
Speaker
lead into the American tradition of kind of stripteases at these engagements. So the stage name of this particular belly dancer was Little Egypt. Obviously not very PC, a problematic
00:55:13
Speaker
name and leading to the exoticism of other cultures clearly and this was actually the stage name for at least three popular belly dancers from the late 1800s through the early 1900s and they had so many imitators that then this stage name kind of became synonymous with these dancers in general and this kind of dance or striptease belly dance quote-unquote
00:55:44
Speaker
was later named in society a hoochie-coochie dance. And this is not, it's not like a strip show. It was a hoochie-coochie dance. So this particular dancer at P.T. Barnum's grandson's bachelor party was named Ocea Wave, but that's not
00:56:08
Speaker
She had a stage name, she went by this name, but she was actually born a French-Canadian to the name Catherine Devine, so do with that information what you will. This woman became front page news in 1896 after she danced at this now famous bachelor party. A rival promoter
00:56:31
Speaker
recorded that she was going to be dancing nude at the party and that's why it was actually raided by the police. So the raid precluded her from completing her dance but she admitted to local authorities that she had been
00:56:48
Speaker
paid to dance and pose quote-unquote in the altogether, which was a euphemism at the time for not having any clothes on. At the time, Teddy Roosevelt was then a New York City Police Commissioner. He supported the police captain who conducted the raid and was subsequently vilified by the media of New York City for interfering with a party
00:57:14
Speaker
held by quote unquote, upstanding gentlemen. So people are getting pissed at Teddy Roosevelt for supporting the police for rating a bachelor party with dancing girls because they were supposed to be fine gentlemen at the time. And only later did the story come out that if she was able to complete her dance, she definitely would have been doing it in the nude and would have done so had the police not showed up. So
00:57:43
Speaker
They're gonna have a fallen naked lady at this party. The raid actually brought fame to Wabe. She was hired by the famed Broadway person, Oscar Hammerstein, and actually appeared as herself in a humorous parody of this dinner. So this bachelor party worked its way to Broadway.
00:58:09
Speaker
Oscar Hammerstein hired her to play herself on stage. And then she might have been forgotten, because this was like an obscure, I don't know, reference in a show on stage that she did. It was like a pop culture moment. And then people started to kind of capitalize off of that maybe. So there was actually a photographer, Benjamin Falk, who took photographs of her and the other
00:58:39
Speaker
dancers that worked with her that kind of went under this one stage name. And so because of these preserved photographs by Benjamin Falk, she has kind of stood the test of time and we have images of her which I thought was really fascinating. This was super tragic though. She passed away in 1908
00:59:03
Speaker
And in her apartment at New York City, she was found by her sister apparently having died from gas asphyxiation. But after her death, it said that she left in a state of over $200,000. Whoo. So your girl was making bank. I kind of feel as though we've had this recent fascination with stripper culture. And I feel like a lot of that came out of like the Hustlers movie.
00:59:32
Speaker
And there's been a lot of women who work in like different kinds of entertainment who are like
00:59:38
Speaker
showing that part of their life, like a day in the life of being a stripper. I actually really like my job. I actually make a lot of money doing this, so on and so forth. So I feel like there was a little bit of that, again, that pop culture moment and all of these women, dancers, strippers, other people that work in entertainment were kind of coming out and sharing their kind of moment when we had this pop cultural fascination happen. Yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
The last thing I'll note about the bachelor party timeline is that in 1922 was the first documented use of the term bachelor party in the Scottish Publication Chamber's Journal of Literature. So that's when we first see this term in use.
01:00:23
Speaker
40 years go by. And in the 1960s, women are holding bridal showers. So I was reading about bridal showers also is this time like, oh, you're you get gifts, you're there to be pampered, like all this stuff, where I feel like bridal showers are kind of working their way out of culture. Yeah, totally. Because it's
01:00:47
Speaker
Cause it's like, if you were going to have one or the other, like, I rather have my bachelor at party and just have a good time, then like the stigma is that you like sit around and open gifts and like drink, you know, just like have like tea or like wine or like, hmm, sounds great. But also I think part of that too, is that with bridal showers, like that was something that you had like with your family and with people like just moving more.
01:01:14
Speaker
like my aunts and my cousins and my sisters don't live where I live. So it doesn't really make sense for like my aunts to fly out here twice just so we can like have a bridal shower.
01:01:25
Speaker
Sure, yeah. So at the time in the 60s, this was that moment where the women and the family friends prepare the bride for these kind of gender norms associated with the role of wife. That's what a bridal shower was. Over times were changing and the sexual revolution was coming into fruition. And brides-to-be were embracing their sexuality and swapping bridal showers
01:01:53
Speaker
for rowdy bachelorette parties. And the term bachelorette party actually wouldn't be popular until the 1980s. So by the 80s and 90s, the bachelorette party had officially kind of cemented itself as a premarital tradition, culturally significant as a symbol of sexual freedom.
01:02:15
Speaker
another step towards gender equality. And thinking about this, I just I was really fascinated. I guess it just had never occurred to me that a bachelorette party's founding principles were in that sexual freedom from the the women's movement. Because I feel as though there's some kind of backlash against a bachelorette party where women and brides
01:02:44
Speaker
don't want it to be this very over sexual experience. There's kind of this a very non celebratory weekend or day or party where the phallus is kind of like that primary thing that you circle yourself around. Yeah. So people don't want it to be necessarily this like very like sexually like explicit, right? happening.
01:03:10
Speaker
Right, which it doesn't have to I think, you know, at the end of the day, I'm very grateful that any bride, any person getting married can just celebrate however they want. And I think that's just that's what a bachelor bachelorette that's what a pre wedding party should be. But I just thought it was so interesting that there's this kind of
01:03:32
Speaker
I don't know cultural backlash against like having a bunch of dicks at your party and it's like this idea of the unsolicited dick pic I think like people just don't want that, you know, in their face or to be celebrated like I like I said just be kind of encompassing of the event and I thought,
01:03:50
Speaker
All of that was just a really interesting way that we've come to plan years today. Yeah, I think that's all really interesting. I also think too with, again, you don't think about how like recent in history these types of events are, but you're so right with that kind of like women's liberation movement, how something like this
01:04:11
Speaker
ties into that like wave of feminism so clearly. I think there's also now this interesting also fascination with male entertainers as well. And we even actually you know obviously like Magic Mike came out before like Hustlers but we have this very you know interesting like Magic Mike like wave and a lot of entertainment has come out of that and like. Are you excited for the new Magic Mike movie?
01:04:41
Speaker
I did not know. Jenna, I thought you were bringing this up because of the new movie that's coming out. No. I had no idea. I am so excited for the new Magic Mike. And it's really funny because I think both Andrew and I really want to go see it because Andrew loves Sama Hayek. Oh, is she in it? Yes. It's like, have you not seen like Chani Jain and Sama Hayek doing all of this press for the movie? I have. Apparently my phone isn't listening to me because no.
01:05:12
Speaker
wow, you have to honestly the trailer looks really good. But Andrew and I are both like, wow, I had no idea. But I love it. I'm also not surprised too. Because I don't know, like, obviously, like those movies did so well, I wouldn't be surprised that there was like another one. And also the interesting thing about like Magic Mike was like,
01:05:34
Speaker
there were a lot of they were so smart when they like made that movie because they were men of all different kind of like age groups like two different age groups, like hot men texted me. Are you talking about magic? We are indeed. I'm just saying that that movie like was made to cater towards like
01:05:52
Speaker
a larger demographic of women also. And I just thought it was- We also just had the Chippendales show on Hulu come out as well. Yeah. And that's something that we haven't talked about. He said, I hear you. I also want to point out too, it's difficult
01:06:11
Speaker
like even in my language right now I'm saying like that is catered towards like a large group of women and like obviously these movies cater to like all types of people with whatever sexual orientation but are like I feel like we need to dive into like
01:06:23
Speaker
Also, there are still those gendered aspects with The Bachelor and Bachelorette trips, right? They seem very hetero. The Bachelor and Bachelorette, yeah, they do. They very much do. They still fall into a dichotomy and they've been segmented into his and hers, but I think there's also a growing trend of people doing their pre-wedding parties together as well.
01:06:51
Speaker
What's her name looking for? Just like a buddy trip or something? Like a dual bachelor bachelorette party. Yeah, I wanted to do that actually. I thought it would be really nice just to have the whole group together. But it was more so just kind of like a hard thing to coordinate with so many people. This is going to be nice to have a girls trip. I mean, I'd be totally happy to have Thieb in there, but I don't see him really.
01:07:21
Speaker
It would be great either way, but no. Yeah, we love it. Girls only. Girls only. Girls' role, boys' role. With that, I think that's all she wrote for today. I think that's all she wrote. I'm all warmed up and ready to go now.
01:07:38
Speaker
ready for a horny horny time. We're ready to go. Just take you right now. Well, I will I will try to get over to the common once it warms up a tad and it's not in the negative numbers here and I'll post some photos of the statue for you all of the
01:07:59
Speaker
monument on our story. Stay tuned for the next February episode coming out on the 21st. We have a very special guest joining us. It is a familiar face that you will be
01:08:13
Speaker
Happy to hear and see again. As always, you can email us at artpoptalk at gmail.com. Follow us on social media at artpoptalk. We'll post updates from the batch party. And with that, Gianna, I think we'll talk to everyone in two Tuesdays. Bye, everyone. Bye.
01:08:35
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.