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What did we miss?
345 Plays2 years ago
APT is finally back from Summer Break and ready to get into everything we missed while we were away. This episode is MEGA ART NEWZ as we dive into the hot topics of the summer from climate change protests in museums, to being teased by the British Government over the repatriation of the Parthenon Sculptures, replica making robots, and a bit of light art trafficking. We've also got some big housekeeping updates. We're so excited to talk to you think Tusday!
For all of Artpop Talk's resources, click HERE.
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Transcript
Welcome Back and Catching Up
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. So, what did I miss? I've come home to this. Headfirst into a political abyss, Gianna? We have our first Art Pop Talk today, so I guess I better think of something to say. I'm already on my way to get to the bottom of this. Gianna, what did I miss?
00:00:29
Speaker
We know we've been away for far too long, so today's Art Pop Talk will be dedicated to important housekeeping updates and all things that we missed over break that we must discuss. I feel so good to say, Gianna, let's Art Pop Talk.
00:00:50
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. We are back. We are back. I am seeing chitty chatty in the doc and I am way too excited. I highlighted it for us. It's been so long since we've had a chitty chat. Oh my gosh. Gianna, we need the tea. We need the update. Summer recap. Summer recap. Well, you guys, I watched Hamilton a lot with Phoebe.
00:01:20
Speaker
Theban is reading a book about Hamilton. Therefore, you know, I've been getting a lot of Hamilton historical facts that, you know, we've been super into the summer. It's been a hot girl Hamilton summer. Watch the musical. Theban has been singing it so much that I have, I am like 10 years behind. Like now I'm listening to the Hamilton soundtrack. So I hope you all thought that my intro for you all was, was
00:01:50
Speaker
Or is it just like, wow, Gianna, that was so five years ago. It was funny because I saw your little dovey digs. First of all, I'm always here for like a dovey digs moment. I know. I know. And I was working in the dock and yesterday Andrew had some friends over.
00:02:08
Speaker
And one of the people who were there playing D&D, she started singing the Skyler sisters songs. Oh, I think it's because they were playing like a character's name was like Angelica. Oh, Angelica.
00:02:23
Speaker
i have had no hamilton references this summer and then i get two in one day and i was it was just one of those moments i was like oh it's it's our pop talk time clearly yeah well you know i feel like hamilton kind of had a little bit of a resurgence in the pandemic because it was released on disney plus so like totally you know
00:02:41
Speaker
This is just still an extension of my pandemic experience, perhaps, my pandemic summer. But no, other than that, we definitely have some very exciting updates in the House of Gianna and Theban.
Gianna's Personal News
00:02:55
Speaker
A lot of listeners know
00:02:58
Speaker
Or should know for the most part that the bin is originally from Malaysia And so he has lived in the United States for about seven years have some very exciting news to share that he got his green card after Yes about three years for working for this company outside of you know college like this post-graduation so we're so so lucky and feeling good hence also like I
00:03:24
Speaker
you know, the Hamilton experience. Oh, for sure. What's up, like immigrants? Like, yes! So, we've been feeling it. Oh my gosh. I would love to celebrate by watching Hamilton with Phoebe. Yeah. That sounds so fun. It's been a lot. So, we've been pumped. So, that was super exciting. And we also have some actual wedding updates, which is super fun.
00:03:51
Speaker
We have set a date for our wedding. So next September, Phoebe and I will be married September 2023. Look out September brides on the way. So yeah, I don't know. All of that also happened like not that long ago.
00:04:11
Speaker
This wasn't like... This is mostly... This is mostly like last week. Yeah, I made sure I was like, oh fuck, like I don't have any updates like for the art pop charts. Like I better like get my life together and then by the grace of the United States, thank God, they're good for something. We got a lovely notification the other day about the status of, you know, this green card. So that is my fast and furious updates for you guys.
00:04:38
Speaker
I just feel like, Gianna, you are such a September bride. I know. I am such a September bride. I wasn't going to sway you in one direction or the other in terms of picking a date, but I'm so happy you picked September because you are the epitome of September. I think so. Audrey. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And Audrey Kaminski, a friend of APT, was making fun of me so much because I guess that's also another good update. I went to go visit her.
00:05:06
Speaker
She was making fun of me because I was exuding such Virgo energy, I feel like. I don't really have any kind of affinity towards star signs. I have no idea, Bianca, you're a cancer. I have no idea what that means, but I feel very strongly that I know.
00:05:26
Speaker
for what a Virgo means and I feel like it's so funny because on TikTok or like any other like social media platforms, I feel like everybody avoids like talking about Virgos and I feel like it's because people are like scared of us. You know, they're like, oh, you know, based on your, you know, horoscope, this is what your bedroom would look like. This would be like your mansion. Nobody does Virgo and it's because they would get it wrong and they know it.
00:05:52
Speaker
Because they can't pin us down. Such a forego thing to say. Such a forego thing to say. Well, enough about me and my plot to destroy the universe. How about you? Well, um...
Bianca's Summer Highlights
00:06:05
Speaker
Your girl went to the Cape for the first time. What happened at the Cape? And at the Cape, your girl also got COVID for the first time. So that has been basically all of July. I've been sick. APT wedding took place in June. Oh my gosh. Julianne Poro, APT fashion expert did get married. It was fabulous. The whole Martucci thing.
00:06:30
Speaker
Poro, Clan, Turner's, we were all there living it up, having a great time. Then went to the Cape for the 4th of July slash my Cansarian birthday and came back with COVID. Spent like two weeks in quarantine and then got out of quarantine. And currently I have this horrific cold.
00:06:59
Speaker
And I went to the doctor because I've just been coughing for the entire month of July and
00:07:08
Speaker
The doctor was like, I think you just coincidentally got a really bad viral infection right after you got COVID. So, but July still went great. Still favorite month of the year. Lots of birthdays in July. Two of my best Boston girlies have had July birthdays as well. So it's been fun to celebrate with people here and definitely do some fun, fun summer things. I did karaoke for the first time.
00:07:38
Speaker
Oh yeah how was that? It was so fun. It was for a birthday party and with my friend's birthday this past week she was like oh we're gonna do karaoke the private room. I was like oh my gosh my first time like I'm so nervous but it was literally so much fun and
00:07:57
Speaker
now I feel like I've done the private room, I actually feel like having watched people do it on the main stage, I think I could go for it, you know? Yeah, I've only done karaoke once and it was probably not as cute of like a vibe as I'm imagining you guys doing karaoke and it was definitely like a dive bar in Tulsa like two years ago. Oh, that would be fun too though. I mean, it was a good time. But what did you say?
00:08:26
Speaker
Um, I think I sang a Rihanna song. Oh, bold. Yeah, it's probably it was not great. I probably just graced her. You sang a Lady Gaga song, didn't you? Of course I did. That's the only I was literally
00:08:42
Speaker
practicing this past week in the shower. I've been taking the longest showers because I've been coughing so much and so I'm trying to like, you know, embrace all the steaminess. And so my sticky shoes. That's it. I was like, literally like, don't you stick on me. Like, just like trying to like have my coffee cool girl voice and
00:09:09
Speaker
So I was practicing in the shower this week, Spotify, they just know. They know exactly what I need at all times. And we're gonna get into this in a second, but obviously Chromatica is here. She has arrived and graced her presence on this earth. Of course, I'm just like fucking obsessed with it. I was on Spotify looking at the set list for the concert.
00:09:34
Speaker
and then Spotify populated this Lady Gaga deep dive playlist and it is when I tell you it's the best playlist on the face of the planet like I'm not fucking lying like it's so good and it's all these Lady Gaga songs but it's not like the number one hits from the radio and only Gaga deep tracks it is all of like Bianca's hits
00:10:00
Speaker
you know what I'm saying? Even though like her other hits are still in my hits, it's just like a little varieté. And I have just been literally listening to it nonstop. And so I knew that if my ass was going to get up there and sing karaoke, it had to be a Lady Gaga song because that's obviously like one of the only songs that I feel like myself in like that is how I feel comfort in this world. Sure. And so
00:10:26
Speaker
I was hoping that they would have Fashion of His Love, because that's why I was practicing in the shower. I'm impressed. I feel like that's kind of a, not like a, I would not pick that one. I would do something low stakes like cherry, cherry boom. I just, I feel like, I feel like Fashion of His Love is an upbeat song.
00:10:53
Speaker
but it's also in my vocal range, you know? Oh, is it? Totally. Totally. But sure enough, when I got to karaoke, they had an extensive Gaga library on there and Speechless was on there. One of my all-time favorites.
00:11:09
Speaker
Can sing my heart out to that anytime and I did and it was really fun. I Love it. I love it. You know, you could have been basic you could have sang like shallow or something and You know you went for it. So Happy for you know that I am
00:11:26
Speaker
Thank you. They did play shallow on the main stage after our time in the room was done. And some of the girls were like, you and Andrew should do shallow. And I was like, no, no, no. But then they played shallow. And I was like this close to grabbing the microphone, but some other people were already on the stage. And I was like, no, no, no, it's fine. Feeling the drinks at that point was feeling very confident in myself. But someone like, thank God they grabbed the mic.
00:11:52
Speaker
One girl did do bad romance and that would have been another great option too.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, man, what a great karaoke update. Yeah, I know you guys were like really concerned about what I was doing for my friend's birthday. I know you painted quite a picture. We love to see it. This whole time I've been thinking of Ted Lasso when he is like does that commercial karaoke. My friends whose birthday was is from the UK and we met on Bumble BFF and the first thing we talked about was actually Ted Lasso.
00:12:27
Speaker
And her boyfriend, Alistair, came over from London for her birthday. And I asked her, what is Alistair's go to karaoke song? And she said it was let it go. And I was like, that is so Ted Lasso. I mean, it's a good dramatic one. Yeah, so Ted Lasso though. Wow. How British of him. Totally. Totally. Oh my gosh. Well,
00:12:57
Speaker
What's up in the other, in the world of Chitty Chatty? Do we have any other final updates?
Music Anticipations
00:13:03
Speaker
Something else that I do want to mention because Gianna had talked to me about it as like a potential topic for today was that Beyonce's Renaissance is coming out in like three days. At the time Gianna and I are recording this, but it will be out.
00:13:25
Speaker
by the time you guys are listening to this episode. So we are not going to talk about Renaissance today, but I really hope that it is as Renaissance-y as we are thinking it might be. Are we going to get the ABT visuals that we deserve? Which I think we will, but we will see.
00:13:49
Speaker
not gonna not gonna say anything i'm just gonna just gonna think it in my head and know that we're all thinking the same things and i mean we have some equestrian vibes already and uh we are anxiously awaiting queen bee's next album the other thing is that shortly after
00:14:12
Speaker
Our episode airs. I will have gone to the Chromatica ball in New York and Lady Gaga on the first stop of her tour.
00:14:23
Speaker
Did a post that said, welcome to my museum of brutality. And I sent it to our cousin, Juliana, who's going to the concert with me. And her response was, brutality, I'm scared.
00:14:46
Speaker
So I feel as though- Julie wouldn't really like fears Gaga, doesn't she? I feel like she does not like it. I feel like sometimes I'm like, I don't think you like Gaga. I think you fear her. I'm too afraid. You and your fear. I feel as though
00:15:17
Speaker
Come, you know, down the line a few episodes, we may need to do a chromatica part two because our first chromatica episode that aired in 2020 is labeled, is titled chromatica part one because we thought that shortly after we would get, we would be able to do part two, but part two never came. So I feel as though with the museum of brutality,
00:15:42
Speaker
that I will be going to, we might need to do an episode on Chromatica slash potentially Beyonce's Renaissance. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah, we really need to finish that out. Yeah. That would be nice. That would be a nice full circle moment. So anyways, catch Bianca in the pit with her little like pen and pad taking notes. Oh my God. So I'm going to document
00:16:12
Speaker
when she does Sour Candy and I'm gonna film Julia. I'm here for academic purposes. I am. I am. I'm so gonna like learn so much. I'm so gonna learn how to be a gay slut. I love it. Oh my god, I can't wait for my lesson. I cannot wait. Teach me Professor Gaga 101. So excited. So those are just some like upcoming potential topics.
00:16:42
Speaker
And it's just for me, I wanted to recognize that by the time this is out, we are fully aware that Beyonce's album will be out. And I'm sorry that we are not covering it today. But on that time, Gianna, should we get into some housekeeping?
New Podcast Schedule
00:17:01
Speaker
for sure. So because today's episode is basically all the art news stories that we haven't talked about in one summer recap kind of episode extravaganza, we are going to start this episode off with some housekeeping updates for the art pop tarts.
00:17:22
Speaker
Art Pop Talk is switching up our monthly content schedule and releasing bi-weekly episodes every first and third Tuesday of the month. So again, we are keeping our Tuesday episode release date. However, we won't be dropping content every single week moving forward. And this is really big news for Bianca and I, but it is really what we believe is going to be effective and
00:17:52
Speaker
necessary in moving forward with the podcast and also keeping up with our other professional experiences outside of the podcast. So Bianca, thoughts on housekeeping? Yeah, and just to reiterate what Gianna said,
00:18:11
Speaker
APT is not going anywhere. Gianna and I just have to space out how we plan and are able to deliver content. So this is going to be really exciting. But another thing that
00:18:24
Speaker
we would like to have happen is on the first episode of every month so that first Tuesday that is going to be generally a topic themed episode like for today we are obviously doing everything we missed over summer break
00:18:43
Speaker
Potentially in September, it might be a Renaissance recap. And then that second episode of every month is likely going to be a guest episode. So we are still going to keep our guests. We definitely want to feature all the amazing people on this show. But just so you know, that's kind of how Jen and I are planning structures is you'll get a topic episode.
00:19:05
Speaker
and a guest episode every month. So that really about does it. We know that we have been gone for far too long and we hope that everybody also had a safe and great summer. And we are really excited to just get back to it, keep making
00:19:21
Speaker
content for you guys that is, again, also hopefully more effective, more impactful and meaningful as we move forward. So I think all good things. Oh my gosh, should we get into today's art pop talk? I am so excited. Please, please give me today's art pop talk. Please serve me some art pop talk.
00:19:50
Speaker
So for today, we are bringing you mega art news. These mini art news stories will cover some of the highlights from the summer that Bianca and I were craving to talk to you all about. We truly could not believe all the things that happened when we were off. This time, I am not throwing away my shot. And we are covering all of the stories now. Well, not all of them, most of them.
00:20:20
Speaker
the good ones, the juicy ones that are still churning out that content for us. Thanks for the other musical Easter egg. I like that one, throwing away my shot. That's good. You know it always pains me to quote Lee-Manuel Miranda, but it seems...
00:20:43
Speaker
So what did I miss?
Art and Climate Change Protests
00:20:46
Speaker
Chapter one. I would first like to talk about some of the climate change protests we were seeing in museums.
00:20:54
Speaker
At the time when this happened, this was the big one being the action taken towards the Mona Lisa at the Louvre at the end of May, which is still pretty big. I'd say that one was up there in terms of some of the protests that we saw, but we'll get into it a little bit later. There was recently another protest that took place towards
00:21:20
Speaker
Botticelli's work of art. So with protest comes performance and as we all know and what we are noticing is that these climate change activist protests in museums
00:21:33
Speaker
are using really disruption or the action of disruption as a social movement. Not an uncommon tactic for protests by any means, but I find it interesting that what is being disrupted in the physical space is kind of like mundane in relation to like a museum space. You know, people are just like, ah, you know, being quiet, like looking at art, like minding their own business. Like, you know, it's not like you're
00:22:03
Speaker
in the middle of maybe like a more highly densely kind of like populated area but the action or the protest in relation to the work of art that they are touching themselves to in these protests I think is quite disruptive to perhaps the art canon or at least the way in which we talk about what should be included in the canon and how we talk about art and pop culture because now we are
00:22:32
Speaker
you know, the kind of thinkers who would add this occurrence in the next chapter of, for example, Mona Lisa's journey, that she has been weaponized and or threatened kind of depending on how you look at the protest. I think it's a little bit of both for this political opinion.
00:22:53
Speaker
There was another climate change protest at a museum in June. And then another one happened mid July at London's Royal Academy of Arts, where protesters from a group called Just Stop Oil glued themselves to a copy of Leonardo da Vinci's The Last Supper and spray painted, quote, no new oil on the wall below this historic copy of The Last Supper.
00:23:23
Speaker
Associating your protest with a historic work of art is also not new. I see maybe why art is an easy target to attach yourself to because in some ways there are connections to your politics and museums because museums are most times government institutions and a lot of times there is also
00:23:51
Speaker
symbolism in the objects that are being chosen to showcase these performances and to attach them to these protests. Some of the works that we notice as a trend with these protests is obviously the nature aspect, the environmental aspect, the religious aspects. I think Mona Lisa
00:24:19
Speaker
is interesting and she is always somewhat of a target just because of her overall historical significance and because in that respect there's always a line of hundreds of people waiting to come see her so maybe
00:24:35
Speaker
that wasn't so much of a mundane experience because there is so much foot traffic and there's always eyes on her. So that is interesting to kind of think about. I don't know, Bianca, if I was ever like to go back for my master's, let's just say like just humor me. Perhaps like maybe this is my thesis or maybe this is just my coffee table book idea. But I think, you know, there's merit in both. I just love
00:25:03
Speaker
you know, a shitty history on the art of shitty protests. Like, I love nothing more than some like good old fashioned cringy protest art. And I would even be so happy to like submit my own work into the mix like from freshman year, you know, where I thought I was like being like so
00:25:23
Speaker
deep and it just like was like not it you know what I mean. I don't know what you think about all these protests happening how you feel about art and protest being combined and then also Bianca is going to share her thoughts on the most recent protest that we got.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think all of this is super interesting. But before we get into a little bit of the meat of it, I want to bring this story up because, coincidentally, as I was prepping for this episode, I saw that the news had come out that another protest had taken place.
00:25:57
Speaker
this time at Florence's Uffizi Gallery. And somewhat selfishly, I'm glad that we're not on break and have kind of a full circle moment where we can really talk about summer beginning to end a little bit in terms of protest. And it's still very much relevant as it's still happening. And we just had this heat wave and all this stuff.
00:26:21
Speaker
I'm going to read from an art news article that quote, on July 22, a man and a woman from the activist group Ultima Generazione glued themselves to the glass protecting the painting of Botticelli's primavera with the help from a third activist who had unfurled a banner.
00:26:43
Speaker
reading Ultima Generazione, no gas, no carbon, which means last generation, no gas, no coal. That's the rough translation. All three of the protesters were removed from the gallery by security, and it is unclear if they will be charged over the incident. And according to the Uffizi, no damage was done to Prima Veras. She was covered by glass.
00:27:11
Speaker
A gallery spokesperson told the art newspaper that it took 20 minutes to clean the glass, covering the work of art after the protest. Quote, if there had not been the special protection of glass, something that the museum management put in place with all its major masterpieces a few years ago, then the work would be badly damaged.
00:27:33
Speaker
The protest group, The Last Generation, said in a statement on their website that the protest posed no risk to the painting. Quote, We consulted restorers who advised us to use glue suitable for glass and frames. In the same way that we defend our artistic heritage, we should be dedicated to the care and protection of the planet that we share with the rest of the world.
00:28:00
Speaker
Ultima Generazione said on Instagram that they targeted the painting given its subject matter. It represents, quote, with a finesse of detail that borders on the encyclopedic more than 500 botanical species that bloom up precisely in the months of spring. This is a reality that we are in danger of losing.
00:28:23
Speaker
In a statement released by Just Stop Oil, one of the protesters said that she was taking action because the government plans to, quote, license 40 new UK oil and gas projects in the next few years. This makes them complicit in pushing the world towards an unlivable climate and in the death of billions of people in the coming decades. So I have a lot of thoughts. Gianna, do you have a reaction to the Primavera situation?
00:28:54
Speaker
I mean, I have a reaction, but I'm well aware that it's like not helpful, right? Like my maybe like candid thoughts. Like I also understand that I'm not producing a solution, but a lot has happened this summer that makes me feel like the world has gone to shit, right? Roe versus Wade was overturned. And I live in a particularly red state where it's going to be increasingly hard for me to have access to a safe abortion.
00:29:23
Speaker
I don't have anything constructive to say about that. In terms of protests, it's always really sad when art is formed out of something tragic. Of course, that's the point of protest, is that you are protesting something that is harmful.
00:29:44
Speaker
It's hard to advocate for something that's kind of fighting fire with fire, but also like I'm never gonna like be for the like aggression towards art in order to make your point kind of come across. But it's also hard because it's like saying team like obviously I am here to save the planet like we all want
00:30:10
Speaker
things to happen. But it also makes me sad. And I think I'm also like grappling with my feelings about it. Like, I don't know if I really have a productive solution or reaction to share. I don't know. How do you feel? I mean, that's actually super interesting, because I feel like I am a little bit more on a
00:30:33
Speaker
not opposing side, but maybe I feel a little bit more strongly in favor of the protests. I think that just especially what we've seen across the globe these past few weeks with record temperatures, but especially in Europe where many people don't have AC in their homes, this action is needed and no damage was done to Primavera. I found it super interesting that the protesters actually said that they consulted
00:31:02
Speaker
someone who has experience in restorative practices for this protest because they are conscious human beings in that way. And no damage was done to this. But no damage was done to Primavera. But in other protests that happened, people were gluing themselves directly to the frame. So I'm like, where's the line? Right. And I think for me, that's probably the line because
00:31:29
Speaker
Here's the thing, for my perspective, if we don't make these significant climate changes now, there won't be any need to protect these works of art in the end because it won't matter, no one will be here. What are we saving these works of art for? For our future, what future do we have? I am all for cultural and historic preservation in a respectful sense, but
00:31:58
Speaker
There won't be anyone around to see them and to preserve them if our climate is burnt to the ground. I'm kind of at the camp, keep doing it. Keep doing it. I'm not advocating for their destruction, though. I think that there is, in a sense, a very smart way to go about a protest, and I think that museums are an excellent space for that because
00:32:27
Speaker
Art has always been a form of protest and disruption. We have artistic movements because they act as a disruptor of the past. And I think that's what art does. So by all means, continue to use art to do what it was intended to do in the first place. These works of art are famous and have cultural significance because they are culturally significant and they
00:32:55
Speaker
oftentimes indicate a shift or a measure of culture. And we need to take stock of our climate and our culture now. Art has always made the world a more beautiful place, and I want to keep living in it. And it's weird to say this, but if a few pieces of art get damaged to really make people
00:33:23
Speaker
look at what's happening. Is that what it's going to take? Because our climate is burning. Our planet is burning. And we just saw record temperatures across the globe. And people aren't doing anything about it. And we're seeing all that stuff with
00:33:43
Speaker
Kylie Jenner and her 17 minute jet ride. How is my recycling and not using plastic bags and not buying plastic going to balance out Kylie Jenner taking her private jet everywhere? So by all means, be a disruptor. And again, I'm not actively advocating for destruction of cultural objects, but
00:34:09
Speaker
something needs to be done. And I think that with the example of Primavera, I think it was really, it's a significant marker in the fact that they specifically said they don't want to destroy the work of art, but they need to disrupt something in that like mundane, routine-ness of looking at objects of cultural significance. And I think it's great that they were conscious about how they were enacting that performance.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's an incredible perspective to have. I think that's really fascinating. And everything you said was super astute about the disruption of protest versus the disruption of what is an everyday occurrence for the making of an art object and putting that out into the universe. Both are accomplishing the same things. It's just ways in which they come about.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, perhaps some of my kind of like feelings about it. Yeah, it's like, do I just need to kind of get over it like for the greater good. But also, I do think that some of these protests are better than other ones happening. And I am nervous about what is going to be
00:35:22
Speaker
like an actual necessary art casualty versus an unnecessary art casualty. Like I'm not really sure what smearing like a cake on the Mona Lisa accomplished but I appreciate like the conversation and the
00:35:39
Speaker
the intent behind some of these other protests that are happening, the conversation and the act. And I haven't heard much about the person who faked a disability to be able to
00:35:58
Speaker
create that action against the Mona Lisa. I feel like we haven't gotten too much follow-up about that one either so I think that we're going to see more of this and I don't think that it is stopping so I think it's something to kind of keep your eyes peeled on. I will say we have gotten a lot of stories though about gallery docents and museum docents and there's been stories about
00:36:22
Speaker
them being essential workers and how they are protecting the arts. So it would be really kind of interesting to get a current museum docent or gallery guards maybe take on this and how that's affecting their everyday lives and maybe what is going on in terms of a training situation, which I'm sure is not happening in museums, probably aren't providing.
Elgin Marbles Repatriation Debate
00:36:45
Speaker
Moving forward, next topic, we cannot not give updates on the art history comp one classic tale of repatriation.
00:36:58
Speaker
the freaking Elgin Marbles folks over the summer break, the fucking British Museum of Art dipped its toe into the conversational pool for the first time in a hot minute. And really, I feel like this was just a big fucking tease per usual. So
00:37:18
Speaker
I will link a Smithsonian article for you all if you want to follow literally the mediocre update that we got. When we went for break, I was so mad. I thought we were going to get, oh my God, you know, the Parthenon sculpture content that like we all deserve. They're going to get given back. Like this was big news. And then it was just silence. And I need to talk about the silence.
00:37:47
Speaker
But I'll quote the last paragraph of this article, which I thought was kind of chef's kiss. Quote, whether the British Museum in the United Kingdom might consider such an agreement remains to be seen. Meanwhile, the two century controversy about the fate of the ancient friezes will prevail and millions of visitors a year will view the artwork in the country that preserved or plundered them.
00:38:16
Speaker
So like, who knows, right? Like, forever, who knows? I think history has just doomed us to talk about this forever with no progress. However, there was a spicy art news story that came out also mid July from the New York Times, which I will read for you now. Quote, a solution may be on the horizon.
00:38:43
Speaker
Roger Michael, executive director of the Institute of Digital Archaeology, believes the conflict can be resolved with the help of 3D machinery. No it can't, Roger. His research consortium based on the University of Oxford has developed a robot
00:39:01
Speaker
with the ability to create faithful copies of large historical objects. In June, the robot began carving a highly detailed copy of one of the Parthenon marbles on display at the British Museum, a life-sized head of one of the horses.
00:39:19
Speaker
This prototype will be used to carve a new one from a block of marble actually quarried on Mount Pentilicus, the main source of the stone for the construction of the Acropolis. However, some archaeologists who have supported repatriation expressed unease regarding the source of funding, the lack of public consultation, and the whiff of British imperialism.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, did you catch my bias tone? No fucking shit. So, oh, once I have the technology to create a carbon copy of the shit that we took and stole from you, only then will we give you back the original. Also, we have had no
00:40:11
Speaker
updates as far as conversation goes with the British government and the Greek government, but we got this story about this fucking robot, right? So I'm like, this, we've just, it's been silent with the conversations between the governments, but then we casually, and no one is, like,
00:40:31
Speaker
I saw this article was, again, it was a New York Times story, I shared it on our story, but I didn't see ArtNet shared it or all these, and I was like, this is the follow-up I feel like that we need to talk about based on the last conversation we got with these two governments. So I am fascinated also with how this query operates and if the government has a hand in it. And I'm kind of like kicking myself
00:41:00
Speaker
because you can see this mountain like from the Acropolis that's kind of one of like the interesting like factoids you know when you're like taking your tour like look over there like that's where the marble is. And I am just curious if the government has a hand in it or if it is like a private company. I would highly doubt it based on the historical significance of this marble that is still also being used to make repairs
00:41:29
Speaker
to the Acropolis. So why my question is that nobody seems to be able to answer is why the Greek government is allowing this guy Roger Michael and the UK government to source this marble to fund their own project.
00:41:49
Speaker
wildly fascinating. Wildly fascinating. Ooh, it feels good to say that. This is bananas. Cuckoo bananas. This is the most cuckoo bananas shit that I've heard in so long. Because if I am... It is to my recollection that
00:42:16
Speaker
when the new Acropolis Museum was being built. Obviously, we know it houses basically the holes for which will be replaced by the Elgin marbles, whatever, like the marbles have a long decrease. Now that they have a place to be properly stored and cared for,
00:42:43
Speaker
in the museum. It is my recollection that the British government had said, hey, Greece, you don't have the means to take care of these objects. So, you know what the Greek government did? They built the new Acropolis Museum. Which is fantastic, by the way. Their own objects. It is an incredible museum. An incredibly thoughtful museum in terms of the architecture does not obstruct the view of the Acropolis, I would just like to add.
00:43:13
Speaker
And the fact that it's like they have those clear glass walkways so you can see the ancient ruins beneath you. And it's the exact same dimension of the Acropolis. So when you are circumambulating the space, you can actually think about- It is still the same experience. Like it's an- Gianna, this is so- How are they getting that marble also? I don't know, bitch. No one will tell me.
00:43:46
Speaker
The fucking audacity to be like, listen, listen, Grace, I've got to take more of your marble. I've got this robot. Hear me out. I'm going to take more of your stuff to build a replacement for your stuff if I have to give your things that I took back to you. But we're going to be even because don't worry, I still took some stuff from you.
00:44:12
Speaker
It's just like freaky that you will need from me when you're, when you need materials to restore the Acropolis. Again, she's like, don't understand.
00:44:24
Speaker
I've got some words for Roger Michael. Like, this guy has no idea what he's gotten himself into. He's just like, oh, I'm into robots. Like, let me get myself in the mix of a century old debate. Like, you know, what would be fun? I'm just gonna, this guy is stirring the motherfucking pot. Like, the marble stirrer of, of a millennia, like,
00:44:54
Speaker
I am just in shock that- Why is this the thing that you're going to do? I just like- Really? No, this is what- You know what, dude? Carve it in your gravestone with the fucking robot that you built because I hope this is the hill that you're willing to die on. It's not for me, but maybe it is for you. I don't know. Well, speaking of taking things that don't belong to them.
Louvre Director Scandal
00:45:18
Speaker
I have another doozy of a story that I am also extremely fascinated by. And this is another one where I feel like the news dropped and then it was just like radio silence. Like I have no update for you guys on this story.
00:45:34
Speaker
I'm just, I want to know more. So back in May, I was watching CBS mornings like I do, and one of the headlines was just like, Louvre director indicted. I was like, what? What? So to quote the art newspaper,
00:45:56
Speaker
They wrote, quote, the former director of the Louvre Jean-Luc Martinet was charged back in May, which comes as the latest revelation of the investigation into the alleged traffic of antiquities from the Middle East. According to an official legal source, Martinet has been charged with, quote, complicity of gang fraud and laundering of antiquities allegedly smuggled from Egypt,
00:46:25
Speaker
and purchased by the Louvre Abu Dhabi. Martine, who has become France's Special Ambassador for the Cooperation on Cultural Heritage and is supposed to deliver a report to President Emmanuel Macron on Restitutions to African Countries, has been placed under judicial control.
00:46:47
Speaker
Jesus Christ. He was director of the Louvre from 2013 to 2021. According to a source close to the investigation, Martine is blamed for not having paid enough attention to certain doubts expressed by the author of an Egyptology article.
00:47:12
Speaker
Mark Gabold from the University of Montpellier. And so Gabold expressed these concerns about the conditions of an export of a steely from 1933. And it was exported in that year by an officer of the German Navy. So this guy, Gabold,
00:47:39
Speaker
told another publication that he's convinced that quote, Egyptologists and curators were cheated by thugs and were not accomplices of the traffickers, but actually their victims. So in June of 2020.
00:47:56
Speaker
A French judge charged the Parisian expert and dealer, Christophe Kunicki, with criminal conspiracy, gang fraud, and laundering. So the Parisian headquarters of the French agency for the Louvre Abu Dhabi was raided at the time. And French investigators plan to travel to New York to exchange information with someone named Matthew Bogdanos.
00:48:26
Speaker
the head of the Trafficking Antiquities Unit at the District Attorney's Office, who has been investigating this trafficking ring since 2013. Cunichy, who, I apologize, probably saying that wrong, who has also denied any wrongdoing when he was previously questioned by the art newspaper, sold a golden sarcophagus to New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art for 3.5 million euros in 2017.
00:48:56
Speaker
And this was subsequently seized by DA Cyrus Vance and returned to Egypt. Criminal investigations in France and the US have extended to Germany, the UK, and Dubai. They are now focusing on nine other objects purchased by the Met and the Louvre Abu Dhabi for a total of more than 50 million euros from Kuniki and Dib.
00:49:25
Speaker
According to a source close to the investigation, a spokesperson for the New York Museum declined to comment on the specifics, but says that it's, quote, employees were deceived by this criminal conspiracy and the museum has been fully cooperative throughout this investigation and will continue to be so. I just like am wildly fascinated by the trafficking and smuggling of
00:49:55
Speaker
art objects, let alone how these major museums can, quote unquote, be fooled. You foolish me by these people. I just feel like, do we not have provenance? Are they just looking at fake pieces of paper and they're like, yeah, it looks good to me.
00:50:19
Speaker
Like what is going on? Bianca, I feel like it's so like, also like naive of you to say like, oh, yeah, like, like they know full well. They just don't want to know, right? They know that we know we know. Right? No, exactly. So for them to be like,
00:50:37
Speaker
Oh, we were deceived. What is that? That like jaw rule. I was bamboozled, I was unaware. You know, with a fire fest, that tweet, like, oh my gosh. I was bamboozled. You were full aware that this is sketch and you don't care because if anything goes down, you're just going to use
00:50:56
Speaker
the sketch people who sold you the object to blame it on them and to be your scapegoat and then you will forever be the person who continues to maintain and house stolen artifacts.
00:51:10
Speaker
for the test of time. I also love how they were like, we're gonna talk to some guy named Matthew about antiquities. And I'm like, it doesn't really seem like we're following a really straight thread here. No, and I apologize for, because the reading of that article probably sounded so scrambled, but the article will be linked for you guys on our resource. It is scrambled. There are so many moving parts. No, but literally, they were,
00:51:40
Speaker
You said verbatim French investigators plan to travel to New York to exchange information with someone named Matthew. He is the head of trafficking antiquities at the district attorney's office, which I didn't know was a thing. But that's a cool that that's a job. Well, I didn't know that was a job. Matthew has his life together. And
00:52:06
Speaker
Hopefully, I don't know, we'll get an update about this. Yeah, Matthew probably has stock in Roger Michaels Institute of Digital Archaeology. Actually, Matthew and Roger are the same person. This has just been one conspiracy theory. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so I don't know what's happening with that, but I just thought I was like,
00:52:33
Speaker
something interesting i wanted to talk about i mean it's yeah i think it just goes to show too i think when we get these like headlines or these big news stories in kind of like any respect like we are we feel like oh we're so in the note we're no the no about it when it comes out big news but then
00:52:55
Speaker
We also don't follow up on a lot of different things. Well, Matthew's been investigating this trafficking ring since 2013. It's one of those things that you unfortunately know exists and we know that the black market exists. We know that a black art market exists, but it's
00:53:20
Speaker
interesting when those little nuggets come into popular knowledge and that's it. That's how we're going to get. Man. Well?
Wrapping Up and Future Teasers
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah. Good art news update. That's all she wrote. That's all she wrote. Yeah. Hit me up in the next five years. Maybe they'll be something.
00:53:45
Speaker
I might call over to Matthew's office, see if he's got any good tea for us. I hear you're someone. I read an article about you. I don't know. In light of all the terribleness, my heart is actually full of such joy to be able to
00:54:08
Speaker
get my thoughts out in the world, and I am so privileged to have a dumping ground in which I call art pop talk. Art pop talk is also change against aimed, just the dumping, glorified dumping ground of Gianna's brain. I love it. I love it. Honestly, that's, I've needed you guys. Hashtag workout energy.
00:54:38
Speaker
Oh my gosh, well it feels very good to be back. We will obviously keep you posted across social media with updates. Again, it's been a little bit of a hiatus on our social channels, but Gianna and I definitely needed a little bit of a mental break.
00:54:54
Speaker
And just needed to refresh and replenish and figure out a better content strategy for us to give to you all moving forward. So we will be back in two weeks. Our next episode will come out on August 16th. We have a very, very exciting, truly an honored
00:55:18
Speaker
guest to be on the show for August 16th. It is very exciting. And as per usual, you can follow us on all of the regular channels. You can listen to us wherever you get your podcasts. And Spotify just included this handy-dandy little rating button. So if you want to rate us on Spotify, if you're a Spotify listener, please do. We'd love that.
00:55:42
Speaker
And if you are an Apple podcast listener, do the same over there as well. If you like our content and want to keep it going, help support the show, you can go to our website, artpoptalk.com. Look for our Buy Me a Coffee page. Search Art Pop Talk on Buy Me a Coffee. Just donate a little something to the show. You can find that link in the show notes below this episode, in our link tree, in our handles across social media. And with that,
00:56:10
Speaker
Gianna, we will talk to you in two Tuesdays. Bye everyone. Bye. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci Fink. And me, Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
00:56:50
Speaker
you