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00:00:01
APT's Big Announcement
237 Plays1 year ago
Calling all Artpop Tarts! Tune in for this episode of Artpop Talk — your cohosts have some big newz to share! We'll also discuss papal drip and our David who has recently taken heat for his lack of modesty...
For more Artpop Talk, click HERE.
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Transcript
Introduction to Art Pop Talk
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca.
Upcoming Announcement Tease
00:00:07
Speaker
Today we are Art Pop Talking with another fun-sized episode, and we have a very important announcement that all the Art Pop Tarts are going to need to know. That's right.
Preview of Art News Stories
00:00:19
Speaker
After we share our housekeeping item for today's agenda, we will both be sharing an Art News story from the past few weeks. Let's Art Pop Talk.
Gianna's Emotional Writing Process
00:00:35
Speaker
Hi. Hey yo. Hey yo. My stomach hurts. Oh my goodness. Wow. I actually wrote my thoughts and my feelings in
00:00:55
Speaker
uh, today's Chitty Chatty document or Bianca and I's episode document that we'd like to, you know, fill you guys in on and keep you in the loop. It's really important that you understand we're using a Google Doc here. Our Google Doc is always a very premium, excellent content situation, but I put in, I'm actually crying while writing this just so when Bianca got in, she could see that this is my like,
00:01:23
Speaker
tears on the page, even though you can't see the tears on the page. Virtual tears. Virtual tears I had to put in. That's the world we live in. Tears. Enter here. But it's true, so I don't know. Bianca, I don't know about you, but I think
00:01:42
Speaker
before we get into any chitty chatty or even if we have the maybe bandwidth to do chitty chatty today. I think we just need to get into our big announcement. Otherwise, I might not be able to make it through this episode. My stomach felt like it was going to fall out of my butt. Excellent. So that's where I'm at. I hope everyone knows how to meet girls around here.
00:02:13
Speaker
There's been a lot of Mean Girls memes at work the past few weeks, so I'm just really like in that zone, you know? Yeah, no, I'm staying in that zone. I think it's great. Well, everybody, we have some big news to share for today's episode.
Retirement Announcement
00:02:31
Speaker
So.
00:02:31
Speaker
After three years of collaborating together as the hosts and creators of our pop talk, Bianca and I have decided to retire the podcast. Our pop talk was established with the goal of engaging with people around the world who share a passion and interest for the arts, but wanted a more inclusive way of interacting with it.
Impact on Careers and Timing
00:02:51
Speaker
We hope and
00:02:53
Speaker
we think we have accomplished just this. We have connected with so many incredible people and are beyond grateful for the network of art and pop lovers that have supported us from the get-go to our community of listeners, community partners, our professionals, guests of the pod and sponsors who have supported the podcast. We are so grateful to have gotten to know you and we wouldn't have made it these three years without you.
00:03:21
Speaker
So why now? Why this podcast? Bianca and I feel it's important to share why we are making this transition out of our pop talk and I think those reasons look different and also look similar for both of us.
00:03:40
Speaker
One of those reasons being the trajectory of our careers, seeing how our pop talk has helped launch us into different areas of the working world. And now we are both looking at what comes next for us as professionals.
00:03:55
Speaker
I was like telling my colleagues this because they're like, oh yeah, we have so many more our pop talk episodes look forward to. I was like, I have something to tell you guys.
Personal Journeys and Podcast Reflection
00:04:08
Speaker
And I was talking about, I mean, Gianna, you can share how you're like what you're looking forward to in the next steps.
00:04:17
Speaker
But I was telling him what you had told me when you were talking about this. And my boss was like, oh, they grew up so fast, getting married and ending a podcast. It's like, I know. She's going to be somebody's wife. She doesn't need me. Oh, that's definitely not true. It's interesting to talk about the transition out of our pop talk, I think,
00:04:47
Speaker
with some of the content that I've been sharing on the podcast, which is essentially an insight into my personal life. And I think when you are talking about a wedding, it definitely is a time of
00:04:59
Speaker
big life transition. But I think the transition out of Art Pop Talk also has to do with so much more. And I think Bianca and I have, throughout Art Pop Talk, kind of been in different places with our career where one of us, or both of us sometimes, or none of us, have needed Art Pop Talk or have not needed it at different points in our life.
00:05:25
Speaker
And I hope that that makes sense and maybe it might not make sense to all the listeners, but it's something that I think might
00:05:36
Speaker
hold true or make sense to creators, where you create something out of this need and necessity for wanting to put something into the universe, but also needing it for yourself. And our pop talk for me was something that I created right after finishing my undergrad. And for Bianca, it was her finishing her master's. We were straight out of academia, and kind of creating your own platform really felt kind of like a natural
00:06:02
Speaker
transition out of academia. Now that we've been in the working world for three years, we've had so many ups and downs. It's been great and it's been not so great. There was this global pandemic that happened. There was this global pandemic. We were both in and out of jobs at one point. Definitely unemployed. Yeah, severely unemployed. Right.
00:06:29
Speaker
Now that I am at this place where I actually have been feeling very stable for the first time in a really long time, and that has to do with my income, my job, my life partner, just all these different things that I'm ready to take on something else and kind of see where that next chapter
Future Career Plans and Change
00:06:49
Speaker
is. And for me, that might be looking like entering academia in the near future again.
00:06:56
Speaker
She's going back. She's going back, folks. She's going back. And when I say that after being out of school for three years, at least for me, there is a kind of mental preparedness that I think that I need to have to do that transition. And so that's kind of part of the reason for me, along with a lot of things. I think that we created something really amazing that we kept up with for three years.
00:07:26
Speaker
I think that it has served an incredible purpose and will continue to exist on streaming platforms. I think it's time to see what else that we can do with this type of content and where we'd like to be with our careers. And sometimes you have to take a step back and look at what you've created in order to move on to the next thing.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
Final Episode Date
00:07:50
Speaker
We'll have more details for all of you about where you can find us if you need us, where you can find APD content. We're still going to be sorting through all of that.
00:08:04
Speaker
likely that all of APT's episodes are still going to be available for streaming. Indefinitely, theoretically, that's what that looks like. We are not going anywhere just yet. Our final episode will be on June 6th, so we have a lot more
00:08:24
Speaker
art pop talking to do in the meantime. And like, we were not about to just like call it quits before this bananas fucking mek alla theme. I mean, are you kidding me? Like, we're like complained about this all the time and then not talk about it with you guys. We would never do that. We have the lovely ladies of Women's Art Wednesday coming back as guests. Jane will be on with a very special episode with Gianna, a brides of art history art pop talk.
00:08:52
Speaker
That will be out in two Tuesdays on April 18th, so look forward to that. We have more time to spend together.
00:09:00
Speaker
We just wanted to prepare everyone that the end is near and we'll have a lot more sentimental things to share with you all
Bittersweet Farewell
00:09:09
Speaker
in the future. But just to echo Gianna, both of us are in that place of looking for the next steps in our career. And I'm really excited about those next steps. Those are really good things. And I think it's the end of an era.
00:09:25
Speaker
Of course, we're going to say that like five million. It was significant for me. I hope that it was significant for you. Totally. But it's like at the same time, like bittersweet, right? Like it's a good feeling to feel that you're ready to commit to that next stage, whatever that might be. And I think that's how we felt when we started APT. Like Jenna said, we were fresh out of school. Oh, you know, this pandemic hits. And our pop talk.
00:09:55
Speaker
was something that we're so proud of, so proud to have built together and with all of you, but it was that next step for us. And now we're just ready to move on to the next thing. So we'll be, you know...
00:10:12
Speaker
I actually think it just hit me
Partnership Reflection
00:10:15
Speaker
a little bit. Whoopsie. No, my stomach hurts. I'm sweating. I'm not well. I'm putting on a brave voice. I'm putting on my big girl voice right now. It's definitely
00:10:34
Speaker
a decision that didn't come lightly, but I think Bianca and I, it's when you are also in a partnership when, again, we've had these different moments where our pop talk has served us really well at also different points in our own lives, individual from the podcast. And when we reach a place that we are both kind of at the same point together, I think it's
00:11:00
Speaker
It was important for us to look at that think about that critically and also wanting to come to an end on our own terms. Yeah, so like Bianca said we still have some time together and that was our goal we didn't want to leave, you know, without a note.
00:11:18
Speaker
Out to lunch. Out to lunch. See you later. Be back in five. We will be business as usual until June 6th. With that, we do have some really interesting art news stories to share, and I'm really excited about mine, Bianca, particularly. Oh, yeah. I think also mine is very...
00:11:42
Speaker
topical. It's very appropriate for us, I suppose. It's topical. Do you have any, do you have any chitty chatty other than this? Like, cause, you know, just to kind of like take a deep breath and lighten it up.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yes, what has been going on in my life? Quitting one of my jobs, you know? Just quitting one of my jobs. Actually, the most long-standing job that I've had since graduation. Since when? What? This has been a very stable relationship. That is a work relationship.
00:12:22
Speaker
It has been my most stable working relationship. I can definitely say without a doubt, why can't I talk right now? Ah, tongue-tied. Yeah, no, for sure.
00:12:40
Speaker
I don't know, that's just accurate, but it's because those are the facts. We're handling this really well. We're handling it so well. Everyone knows about the 20, how many jobs I've had. It seems like the numbers just keep growing since undergrad. We are just nose diving like Taylor Swift on this tour, and we're just going for it.
00:13:08
Speaker
Mm hmm. What do you think about the heiress tour? I have just I don't I wish that I did. I just don't like I think that people are having a great time. I think like I'm interested to see how the show was going in light of all the Ticketmaster stuff. But seems like people are having a good time. And honestly, that nosedive is like pretty sick. Yeah, like I think that's like super dope. Everyone seems to like be like two thumbs up and I'm happy for them. Two big thumbs up.
00:13:37
Speaker
What's the deal with Gwyneth Paltrow like talking about Taylor Swift and her like because of the whole dollar thing she's countersuing for $1 which was I guess like something Taylor Swift has done or has I don't know. Oh, so there's no beef between Gwyneth and Taylor. She's just doing a Taylor action. Yes, because
00:14:02
Speaker
I think she doesn't need the money. Right? Because the opposing lawyer, I don't know what happens in court. Not lawyer. She was like, Oh, I wish I was as tall as you. No, you don't. She anyways, I don't know. This like lawyer was like questioning like Gwyneth Paltrow about like, this like metaphor, this like symbolic gesture of this like $1 and Gwyneth Paltrow was like, No, I'm literally countersweeting for a dollar. So I don't know.
00:14:32
Speaker
That's funny. I really want to like implement a more, like her, well, I missed a half day of skiing. Like I just want to like start saying that to be like, who inconvenienced me. Well, I missed a half day of skiing. I've been mostly interested in her like
Personal Updates and Pop Culture Chat
00:14:50
Speaker
courtroom attire, how it's like just giving like, rich casual wear. It's amazing. I
00:15:01
Speaker
Am or really enjoying it. Agreed. Anyways, I don't know. Hope Gwen's okay. I don't really know too much. I mean, she's clearly fine, but no, her and Taylor Swift do well.
00:15:14
Speaker
i was like really confused because like i didn't i haven't been watching the trial but one day i woke up and it was like what is poucho too so i was like the fuck happened i don't really think anyone is watching this trial but yet oh there are people watching it like i don't get it it's something that i've been kind of forced to consume because it's just popping up on everything but it's literally everywhere
00:15:41
Speaker
I don't know. Whatever. I think she's fine. She's absolutely fine. I am hilarious. And that's Chitty Chatty. Thanks, Gwyneth. Actually, thank you, Gwyneth, because I don't really have any personal content to share what's going on in my life. So I hope that fills in the gaps. Yeah, it does.
00:16:10
Speaker
What about you, Bianca? Nothing to report. Nothing goes here. That was something that Andrew says to everyone. I was like, what? It was like something you'd say, but it's something that Andrew says. He always says nothing goes here. What do you mean to say nothing to see here? Anyway, not much to report. It's been nice to
00:16:37
Speaker
chillax a little bit after I'll be busy traveling. So next, I have another bachelorette trip at the end of May, which I'm looking forward to. But that's the next kind of date of travel. And yeah, it's been nice to chill. So well, good. That's all. Yeah. I like being a whole body. So nice.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, except something about that is also slightly unsettling because it's so nice. But then when I sit down, I'm like, why am I not busy? I have to reintegrate how to slow down because then I'm looking for something to do. And when I end up doing a shopping, and I know that sounds really
00:17:30
Speaker
stereotypical but it just like gives me something to do, you know what I mean? And so I'm like scrolling on Poshmark for two hours. No, I get that. I feel like I just have a little bit of angst with the wedding these days when I kind of sit down. It's like, okay, I get home from work. I sit down and maybe like, you know, watch Netflix or something. And then I'm like, busy hands, busy hands. Like I should be working on something for the wedding. Like what can I do right now? Like what email can I send? Right.
00:17:57
Speaker
my boss is working on this, well, she's writing this huge report for us at work right now and she was like, oh, I'm just so tired of it. It needs to be the wedding date because you're not supposed to play in a wedding for too long because she said then you start renting a taco truck for people after darking. It's just such a good metaphor for
00:18:27
Speaker
things like our pop talk, you know, things need to have like a natural end to it because when you extend it for too long, you start being like, what can I buy? Like what else can I do to this? So I thought that was like a very funny wedding metaphor for like a long-term project, you know, as you start booking a taco truck.
00:18:54
Speaker
Honestly, though, I love a good panic purchase. You know, sometimes it's like...
00:19:05
Speaker
I don't know, it's like a little bit of like spice that you're just throwing into the mix of your life. Why is it spicy? Why is it spicy? Well, I will keep that in my back pocket if I feel like I need to add a little extra, you know, flavor to my fusion wedding if I need to throw in a taco truck. I'm more spiced here, Malaysian way.
00:19:26
Speaker
a whole Italian thing going on. We've got the whole Malaysian thing going on, you know, if you feel the need to. I wouldn't mind a taco truck. Taco truck does sound appealing. I'm dancing the night away. Go outside and get a taco. It sounds like a great idea. This is what you can do with all your free time after APT. Right, right. With the few months leading up that you'll have.
00:19:49
Speaker
Busy hands, busy, busy hands, busy hands. I hear you have a taco truck. That's enough of that.
AI Image of Pope in Puffer Jacket
00:20:00
Speaker
You want to talk about the Pope? I do want to talk about the Pope. Cool. So for today's Art Pop Talk,
00:20:11
Speaker
Bianca and I will be sharing two art news stories, Lightning McQueen, fashion. First up, since we hit you with the heavy at the beginning of this episode, I'd like to bring us back up, you know, and talk about something that I think on the surface level is very hilarious, which is the viral image of Pope Francis wearing a white long puffer jacket. GQ, of course, covered the story and found the creator of the image who used AI.
00:20:39
Speaker
Quote, the image, of course, was very much not real. It was created by a 31-year-old Chicago man named Pablo Xavier using Mid-Journey, an artificial intelligence image generator. Xavier told Buzzfeed News that he felt moved to write the Mid-Journey prompt for the image while he was tripping on shrooms. Amazing. Quote, I try to do funny stuff or trippy art, psychedelic stuff. It just dawned on me. I should do the Pope.
00:21:09
Speaker
Then it was just coming like water. The Pope in Balenciaga puffy coat, walking the streets, Rome, Paris, stuff like that, said Xavier. Afterwards, he posted it on the Mid-Journey subreddit under the title, quote, The Pope Trip. One Reddit user said, it's just benign enough to be plausibly real. Quote, Catholic Church is super rich. He's just not as orthodox or old as other Popes.
00:21:38
Speaker
I could see Francis having mad drip. So let's talk about this Pope drip, the Pope drip of it all. Why do we think the Pope has drip? Well, I think even from like a funny Reddit comment, we all have this idea that the Catholic Church is super wealthy, and there is something about
00:22:01
Speaker
seen Pope Francis in like a white high fashion luxury puffer coat that reads as it just makes sense. It just makes sense. There's something about it that makes sense. And I think it has to do with the price tag of it all, the fashion of it all. And you want to know something embarrassing? What?
00:22:20
Speaker
I scrolled past this image 4000 times on Instagram when it came out. I did not bat an eye. There's a boat. I literally did not second guess this at all.
00:22:32
Speaker
if the pope was going to wear a puffer coat. Is he cold? It gets cold. This is what it would look like. GQ also talked about what the pope's coat actually does look like because we know what it looks like. It's basically a white peat coat and it's custom tailored. I've never even thought about the pope in a coat. Right, because he has to go outside and shit. He has to wear a coat, but it's got to be like a pope coat. It's essentially a pea coat.
00:23:02
Speaker
white that matches his robes. So and because the Pope has all of these tailors that have worked with the church, they have like institutional tailors that like historically like work for the Vatican. So it's just crazy. Honestly, now it's like, you know, when you say a word so many times, you don't think it's correct. Us saying Pope has anything the Pope isn't even real. What is a Pope?
00:23:29
Speaker
Honestly, the Pope is just kind of like a construct. I don't know. There's been a million of them. It's just... No, like totally. It's just... I just see this kind of puppy coat. I mean, it would work and the funny thing is I think with...
00:23:43
Speaker
kind of our modern visual lens because this is a normal everyday jacket, although it is high fashion and something in our brains registers this as a luxury item. He's also got this like very jeweled cross hanging on it. It just looks very shiny, like tre riche.
00:24:06
Speaker
It does. People drip. People drip. But a lot of people are comparing this kind of puffer jacket with the bling, something like a blingified cross necklace reading into rap culture. And so that's kind of where we're getting people drip. I think everyone gets that. But there's something about it that reads as modern, reads as luxury, and the Catholic Church is super fucking wealthy.
00:24:31
Speaker
It's also interesting to think about those historical portraits of popes that we get where they're covered in fur and jewels. In art history, we see what the finest luxury looked like at the time, and we can see the depth and the texture of all the fabrics that a pope is wearing. It's interesting that papal garb hasn't
00:24:59
Speaker
changed so much over the course of history where our fashion has. Like, if you think about it, 500 years, you know, let's say we go back to Eloise Renaissance paintings, it just, in the history of the world, 500 years is not that long to see a figure like the Pope have such a constant fashion presence in that tradition.
Irony of Pope in Luxury Fashion
00:25:23
Speaker
You know, when you look at those portraits,
00:25:25
Speaker
There was papal drip at a certain point in history, and we know what that looked like, and that exists today. It just hasn't changed. So it's a really interesting concept to think about, like the Pope in this high-fashion puffer. It's not that shocking, but the concept is. Right. And I think it's really interesting that someone who is tripping on shrooms and just wanted to make something trippy and funny because
00:25:54
Speaker
you know, Pope Francis isn't like the other popes. He's cool Pope, you know, which I can get into that and which I have thoughts about because sure, but also know totally that.
00:26:07
Speaker
It is actually quite jarring for us. Very astute academic argument. Right. Sure. We can say that. Sure, Pope Francis isn't like the other popes, but honestly, fuck that. No. He doesn't get a gold star for saying that gay people are okay.
00:26:24
Speaker
I'm not about gold star energy here. We're the head of the Catholic Church. It's a very problematic institution. I don't know, man. Do something about it. Do something about it. No gold stars for you. It's funny to think about someone who was just wanting to make high trippy art actually made something that was actually really thought provoking because you're right, Bianca, we have really never
00:26:47
Speaker
in our visual world seen the Pope out of any other kind of attire. But with AI imagery and just kind of like modern creativity, we can see what he would look like in the everyday. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, it's speaking for granted from our eyes. Yeah. Because the Pope is, like you said, wearing custom, very expensive items that are handcrafted just for him on a daily basis. But because it's not what
00:27:17
Speaker
our modern lens sees as.
00:27:20
Speaker
luxury or high fashion or wealth, that doesn't mean it's not. Right. But we see them in this damn puffer jacket and we're like, oh, hey, both of you. I see you, Pope Francis. It's crazy. And also, again, I don't want to, I think there's a purpose for art at face value to take this into consideration as just something that was created with the intention of being funny and
00:27:48
Speaker
create an image to exist on the internet. That is what this image is at face value. But if we put on our super critical art pop talk lens, it's super interesting to compare this image with recent pop culture undertones. The fact that the Pope is wearing Balenciaga when we think of the abuse of children is quite interesting. And again, I don't say that
00:28:16
Speaker
to be super critical of this image, because I do think I want to keep it kind of at face value for what the intent of this image was. But there are things that you could get into, for example, if you wanted to do an analysis on literally anything, like even in this image, there are things to talk about with a pop cultural lens. When you think about it, like it's an incredibly complex image, which is really is love about it.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Take it for whatever you like about it. You know, honestly, it's really funny. Mad props to Xavier. Honestly, like living your best life. We appreciate it. I hope you have a nice puffer coat. You know, I cannot see really shiny. Cannot wait to see what his next AI creation is. But well, are you ready for this next one? I am.
00:29:03
Speaker
So, like I said earlier, it's, you know, this one hits close to home for us here at APT.
Controversy Over Statue of David
00:29:10
Speaker
And I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read you guys the article, basically. It's from Associated Press and I'm doing that because AP basically got, had a conversation with the involved parties and so the direct quotes
00:29:26
Speaker
are from this conversation that Associated Press had with the following people. A lot of news, other outlets are covering it, and I'll share another example of an outlet at the end, but that's why I'm reading from this one specifically.
00:29:44
Speaker
From writer Terry Spencer, the Florence Museum housing Michelangelo's Renaissance masterpiece, The Statue of David, invited parents and students from a Florida charter school to visit after complaints about a lesson featuring the statue forced the principal of the charter school to resign. The mayor of Florence also tweeted an invitation for the principal to visit so he can personally honor her.
00:30:13
Speaker
And this arrives out of the conflation that parents are confusing art with pornography, and the mayor says this is ridiculous. So, for background, the board of the Tallahassee Classical School
00:30:31
Speaker
I just find that ironic to begin with. Sorry, whatever. Pressured Principal Hope Karaschia to resign after an image of the David was shown to a sixth grade art class. So this article says art class. Another article from NPR said art history class. So first of all, I just wanted to say like,
00:30:53
Speaker
That's very cool that sixth graders are learning art history. I don't know if it's just a regular kind of studio art 101 drawing class. The other article said art history, but I just want to say I thought that was cool. The school had a policy, has a policy, requiring parents to be notified in advance about controversial topics being taught. The incredulous Italian response
00:31:20
Speaker
Okay, this writer highlighted how the US culture wars are often perceived in Europe, where despite a high rise in right wing sentiment and governance, the Renaissance and its masterpieces, even naked ones, and I'm quoting the writer here, are generally free of controversy.
00:31:42
Speaker
Sunday's front page in an Italian daily publication actually featured a cartoon by a satirist depicting David with his genitals covered by an image of Uncle Sam and the word shame on it. So that's also another interesting kind of like political cartoon that's arising out of this situation geared towards American politics, which I thought was interesting.
00:32:11
Speaker
Karaskia, the principal, believes the board targeted her after three parents complained about a lesson that included a photo of David. She has said that two parents complained because they weren't notified in advance that a nude would be shown, while a third parent called the iconic statue pornographic. I also read another article, the NPR one, which we'll link,
00:32:39
Speaker
said something about that an email was supposed to be sent by the teacher to the parents and this is part of the curriculum. This has been taught before and every time it's been taught an email goes out to the parents. So there's some like kind of fishy stuff going on here where the principal didn't follow up that the email had been sent out. Obviously I'm not involved in how
00:33:08
Speaker
communication with parents works at this school, but it seems very weird that a principal would have to be the one responsible for a teacher's responsibility if that is the protocol. Not that that should be the protocol. So some things were just a little fishy here because I don't understand the back and forth between the principal's responsibility of
00:33:34
Speaker
Notifying parents and the teacher's responsibility for notifying parents. Cecilia Holberg, director of the Galleria Academy, where the David is, expressed astonishment at the controversy to think that David could be pornographic, quote, means truly not understanding the contents of the Bible, not understanding Western culture.
00:34:00
Speaker
which also seems a little weird, but I'm not understanding Renaissance art. She invited the principal, the school board, the parents, and the student body to view the quote, purity of the statue. Tallahassee Classical is a charter school and so while it is taxpayer funded and tuition free, it operates entirely independently of the local school district and is
00:34:26
Speaker
usually sought out by parents seeking an alternative to public school curriculum. So there's about 400 students from kindergarten through 12th grade that attend this three year institution. I was like, wow, oh my God. And this is apparently its third principle.
00:34:47
Speaker
So it follows a curriculum that is designed by Hillsdale College, a conservative Christian school in Michigan, frequently consulted by Florida governor, stupid Ron DeSantis, on educational issues. Barney Bishop, the chairman of this charter schools board, has told reporters that while the photo of the statue played a part in the principal's, quote unquote, resignments,
00:35:15
Speaker
It was only one factor and he declined to elaborate while defending his decision. And there's some weird stuff where the NPR article writes that, quote, despite the measures earlier in the month, Barney Bishop III met with Kiaraskia and gave her the option to resign or be terminated without cause. And so she ultimately decided to resign.
00:35:45
Speaker
The whole thing is, is very weird she said in this article like they never got along like she doesn't think he liked her very much. So, it's again weird going back to that thing with the email and the teacher why wasn't the teacher reprimanded I mean maybe they were for not sending out the email.
00:36:04
Speaker
I feel like part of this is also just using David as like a scapegoat almost to get this principle out of the school. But nonetheless, it's bringing up some interesting things, of course. This chairman said, parents are entitled to know any time their child is being taught controversial topic with a controversial picture. Bishop said in an interview with Sleet online magazine,
00:36:34
Speaker
Several parents and teachers plan to protest Karski as exit on Monday night at a school board meeting, but the ex-principal said she isn't sure she would take the job back even if it were offered to her.
00:36:49
Speaker
quote, there's been such controversy and such upheaval, she said, I would really have to consider is this truly best? Maria Stone, head of humanities studies at the American Academy in Rome, said that the Florida incident was another episode in escalating US culture wars and questioned how the statue
00:37:08
Speaker
could be considered so controversial as to warrant a prior warning. Quote, what we have here is a moral crusade against the body, sexuality, and gender expression, and an ignorance of history, Sohn said in an email. The incident is about fear, fear of beauty, of difference, and of the possibilities embedded in art. So of course we all know that Michelangelo sculpted the David between 1501, 1504,
00:37:36
Speaker
after being commissioned by the city of Florence. It's still in Florence today and helps draw 1.7 million visitors each year to the museum. Quote, is an incredibly sought after by Americans who want to do selfies and enjoy the beauty of this statue, Director Holberg said.
00:37:56
Speaker
The museum, like many in Europe, is free for student groups, but there was no indication that any trip would be subsidized by the city of Florence or the museum after they invited all these kiddos over there. The NPR article writes that, going back to the chairman, Barney Bishop III, he noted despite parents' complaints about the David artwork, it will remain in the curriculum.
00:38:23
Speaker
He says, quote, we're going to teach it regardless of whether parents are in favor of it or not.
Art Censorship and Cultural Differences
00:38:28
Speaker
But if they are not in favor of it, we give them an alternative curriculum. Bishop similarly said that there were multiple concerns that led to her departure. He couldn't explain further. He didn't believe the principal was aligned with the school's values. Quote, it's not the showing of the picture, it's the process, Bishop told NPR.
00:38:49
Speaker
parents are entitled to decide whether any topic, any subject, any use of particularly sensitive words are going to be discussed in the classroom. If they don't feel that it's appropriate for that age of their child, they're entitled to make that decision. Well, I don't agree with that, but that's a personal preference that I have. That is kind of,
00:39:15
Speaker
Again, I think all of this is just a very odd scapegoat to fire to get this principal out of this school because she, quote unquote, didn't align with their values. But it's very interesting. Like it feels like just propaganda, you know, like David has become this like nude object of sexuality when it is from, he's a biblical hero, you know, it just seems very counterintuitive to
00:39:44
Speaker
I'm going to stereotype here that maybe the type of people that are wanting their kids to attend this. Yeah, charter school in Tallahassee. Yeah, for alternative curriculum. So it just
00:39:57
Speaker
It seems very counterintuitive. And again, I just think all of this is a weird workaround to get this woman fired. Right. I did really like the statement from the head of humanities at the American Academy and Rome, who talked about how this was a moral crusade against the body sexuality and gender expression and most importantly, ignorance of history.
00:40:23
Speaker
and this idea of fear, fear of the beauty, fear of the difference and the possibilities embedded in art. I think that was like a really incredible statement because I think art is really incredibly powerful. And I just can't handle the fact that we are still policing these historical images when particularly in this conversation, the context of American education, like we have had like art
00:40:48
Speaker
There's been so many shootings in our schools lately and like literally kids are dying and yet we're going to be mad about this principle for overlooking some paperwork in which like a nude image was showed. I'm not trying to like compare these two situations. American education has just been...
00:41:06
Speaker
become so politicized and so polarized, it is just devastating. I think that this is a very minute example in comparison to everything that has been happening of why everything is so controversial. I just can't handle the fact that this is something that we're talking about and still having to talk about and discuss when there are so many other things happening. We just had another school shooting and we can't even
00:41:35
Speaker
get that right. And I just I have a lot of feelings and I am projecting that onto the story. But there's just so much happening with politics and education and it just pisses me off. Yeah, it feels like nothing about this story makes sense, actually. And honestly, some of the some of the quotes out that I disagree with them, but I think they're all missing the point. Like, I don't think that these people care about beauty, sexuality, gender,
00:42:05
Speaker
at all. They just want to think that they know what's best. It's about control. I think for me more than it is fear, maybe fear of not being able to control what their kids are learning. I think it's about the fear.
00:42:28
Speaker
yeah it's there's just something off about the statements from i don't want to say outsiders but this european perspective of these quotes that they're giving about like what's going on and like this how like americans aren't understanding like this history of western culture i don't think that's
00:42:47
Speaker
the mark at all. Like something feels very disjointed about the perception of what's happened and then what is actually happening in American education. I guess, yes, I think I see what you are saying there and I do
00:43:05
Speaker
agree with that kind of projection on, well, let me put my two cents in here. What's going on in your charter school? He feels like a European academic response to something that is so unnatural. It feels like an institution trying to analyze in depth what's happening in American culture. And I feel like we're just so far past the point of trying to put rationale on this, because I think for me, there is no rationale.
00:43:35
Speaker
I don't know, there's like a barrier in my mind that's like, there's no explanation for this kind of behavior. And I don't think we should try to put, I guess, like a pretty hypothesis on it, I suppose.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's interesting, Bianca. I think also it's this European perspective of I'm trying to understand what the big deal is because this is such a normalcy for us. Aside from my personal projective of just can't even dealing with this bullshit just in light of everything that's going on, your perspective I think is more astute in the fact that Europe is just like big question mark. I don't understand what the big what is about. Yeah, I just feel I feel like the whole thing is
00:44:23
Speaker
off like I like it feels the whole thing just feels very like uncanny, I suppose. Yeah, I guess I still did part of me did like this idea of the fear because I still think coming from like an American centric perspective, I think that there is this there's this field of knowledge, there's this fear of art that I are
00:44:48
Speaker
culture, our parents, like just American culture. It's like we're trying to cherry pick what information we want taught or shared. And I think that is just how I am. Like that's existed for, I'm going to say, the older generations. They have grown up with this as well. And I feel like it's more about control and less about fear because they've grown up with this the whole time.
00:45:16
Speaker
how can they be afraid of something that they have lived with, you know, like, again, it is a privilege thing to take an art class, it is a privilege thing to have cultural courses offered to you in school, it is, you know, a privilege thing to be able to go to museums in general and experience art and cultural history. And it's a choice a lot of people make in America, because we're not surrounded by it all the time. But I think there is a
00:45:45
Speaker
I don't know I'm just I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around how maybe it's just because they're conflated like fear and control are one of the same these days it feels like yeah maybe yeah I think maybe we can sit on those thoughts too a little bit I think
00:46:03
Speaker
I am definitely projecting my own thoughts and fears just about the American education system. You also have this different country and their academic perspective coming into play when it's really like, okay, this kind of concerns you, but also it does seem like there is a lot of adding to the noise.
00:46:26
Speaker
Like if we wanted your perspective like we would ask Coming from this like charter school. They're probably like, okay, like, you know, I don't know. Yeah I'll just like very disjointed and I don't know. It's like all these different Yeah, like all these different comments all these people wane in but yet are these people actually really talking to each other? Like it's no No, and it's not getting to the root of a problem either like like like
00:46:55
Speaker
politicians or activists or parents involved. If you're a parent in this country at all, like you should be concerned about this and I feel like
00:47:06
Speaker
it's not the right approach for a humanities academic to be like, well, I believe that this is a fear of sexuality. It just feels like, shut up and do something. It just feels like not productive. And I think that's like, it's frustrating me, I guess. I think to, again, not to, absolutely to not make light of the mass shootings that we are having in American schools,
00:47:35
Speaker
But in my head, I'm just like people are dying Kim like I don't know I'm just kind of like I
00:47:44
Speaker
I just, my brain can't like... This isn't the time for you to invite these kids to the floor. I don't know. That would be great. But if you want to invite them, also pay for their trip. You know what I mean? Well, and I feel like my brain can't even focus on the root of this issue or just this story because of all the other things happening as well. Sure. Yeah. Sure.
00:48:08
Speaker
Um, really like David does not deserve this. No, truly. Just not. And it just like, what a weird thing that David is like involved in this. You know, it is like the Taylor Swift being involved in Gwyneth Paltrow's court case. Like, what? Do David and Tallahassee have beef? I didn't know. I did not know. Why do you hate David? Maybe he'll countersue for a dollar.
00:48:35
Speaker
Oh my God, totally. He would. He doesn't need the money or the story. I'm biblical bitch. I don't need your patronage. Man, if APT wasn't coming to an end, I would say that's a great call for some merch. I'm biblical bitch. Culture quota, that's a teacher design you can steal and then I'll buy it from you. Okay.
00:48:59
Speaker
Culture quota can just have our content and we'll just live vicariously through Beatrice from this point on.
Listener Engagement Encouragement
00:49:07
Speaker
I'm biblical bitch. I'm like Judith because they fucking took her out of the Bible. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. We need to stop having great ideas. I know, I know. Is this going to be sad? It's just too difficult. Oh my God. Well, in spite of perhaps our big announcement, I actually did really enjoy this episode and I actually am glad to
00:49:42
Speaker
get our announcement off of our chest and fill everybody in the loop. I think that it is a nice fair amount of time to kind of give everybody and, you know, reach out to us, you know, in the meantime, if anyone has any thoughts or wants a chat or, you know, you can always, you know, where to find us, slide into our DMs and then
00:50:07
Speaker
And then we'll talk about where to contact us later. Yeah. We got what? Two months? Two months? Two months. Yeah. And my stomach hurts again. And I need to go have some tea. Calm down a little. Calm down a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. All right, everyone. Well, like we said earlier,
00:50:33
Speaker
In two Tuesdays, we will have a very special episode of Brides of Art History, so get excited for that. And with that, Gianna and Jane will talk to you in two Tuesdays. Bye, everyone. Bye. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci Fink, and me, Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner.
00:51:00
Speaker
and our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.