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Camp Green Bay
71 Plays2 years ago
G'day! This week we return to the Packers Training Camp with special guest Paul Bretl! We talk about the winners and losers from this weeks practices and take a long look at the new QB1!
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Transcript
00:00:30
Speaker
G'day, everyone.
Introduction to App Backpackers Podcast
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to the App Backpackers podcast, the podcast where two mates from all the way across the world have a yarn talking Packers football and the green and gold. I'm Nick Gregory, joined by my co-host, Iowa Joe, as always. Today, welcoming me on the wonderful writer for Dairyland Express and the Packers Wild, Paul Bredl. Paul, it's lovely to have you on. Again, you're just one of these guys I always see posting things and writing things. And I always read your stuff and kind of, you know, I'm always in the loop with what's going on. And it's really, really nice to finally meet you and, you know, get to talk to you in real life.
Packers Training Camp Excitement
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the kind words and thank you guys for having me. I'm excited to talk about training camp here today. Uh, it's a different vibe around the team, but there's excitement that comes around with that as well. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's had me perked up. I, I, my, actually my phone right now is almost dead because I spent most of the day reading all the training camp updates and all that stuff. So.
00:01:29
Speaker
It used to be that I would be up there at this time, but I haven't done that in a bit. So, um, yeah, it's, it's fun. And it's great to have you on Paul, because I know you're right there amongst everything. So, uh, you'll, you'll, you've got a bird's eye view on all of it. And I did scroll through your, uh, one of your articles earlier. So I, I, I'm excited to get to talking about
Pre-season Roster Evaluation
00:01:54
Speaker
that too.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. This is, uh, obviously I love anytime there's Packers football, but I do really enjoy the training camp pre-season part of it as well. Just really diving into the, the entire roster and just so much potential and opportunity at this time of the year.
00:02:13
Speaker
for sure. Awesome. So going into training camp, obviously, you know, we're not reading too much into what's happening. But you know, there is still things that we can learn, things that we can see quite clearly. What are some kind of just general takeaways that you guys have just from what you've seen?
Offensive Strategy and Versatility
00:02:30
Speaker
You know, I mean, can start on the offensive side of the ball. Obviously there's a ton of inexperience, you know, at receiver at tight end, but I think what's exciting about that group is the speed and versatility that they have.
00:02:45
Speaker
And just the potential that comes with that, obviously speed, you know, can lead to big play ability, but specifically the versatility, the, the tight end unit can play, you know, Luke Musgrave, we're going to see him in line in the slot out wide, even, you know, Robert Tunion, 20% of his snaps came out wide last season. Luke Musgrave is absolutely going to see some snaps there. Just about all the receivers, you know, they can play from the slot. They can play from the boundary and.
00:03:12
Speaker
When you have that ability, that mixture of players, what it does is we hear Matt Lafleur often talk about the illusion of complexity, keeping defenses guessing, keeping them off balance, because it's going to allow the Packers to run a variety of plays from just a few personnel packages. And that creates mismatches with the defense, especially when you're utilizing motion. I think it was Tuesday's practice, that video of the love throw to Christian Watson, just that six, like 60 yard or downfield.
00:03:41
Speaker
You know, in part that play was set up initially because of motion. They moved Watson across the formation. He found a favorable matchup going up against Innis Gaines. And yeah, that's one that Watson should win most or all of the time. And so that's a little glimpse into what we can expect from this unit. Um,
00:04:02
Speaker
Again, Matt Lafleur has talked about how Christian Watson is one of the more intelligent football players he's been around. He's known for his speed, his big play ability, but we're going to see him in the slot. We're going to see him running a variety of routes, make him plays at different levels of the field. Jay, uh, Jaden Reed, someone who can line up inside and out as well. Romeo Dobbs is just a really, really refined route runner can win that way. So again, you add all those pieces together and you know,
00:04:30
Speaker
It hopefully helps take some of the playmaking burden off of Jordan love. Cause the scheme, the, the mismatches are doing a little bit of the heavy lifting to hopefully help create some, again, relatively easier reads, easier throws for him and this offense to take advantage of.
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting that you're talking about the motion because we heard for years how, you know, Aaron didn't like motion. So it's good to see that they're finally getting to incorporate that because they have the guys to do it. You know, Jayden Reed.
00:05:06
Speaker
a guy that you mentioned in your article earlier that's having a good camp that, you know, obviously is my guy, Tyler Gibson, you know, they,
Dynamic Roles and Player Strategies
00:05:14
Speaker
he's been doing well in the motion stuff. I think some guys have been, or some of the people on Twitter have maybe thought he could be the Tyler Irvin role that we had a few years ago.
00:05:29
Speaker
So the one question I have for you from being up there, we all heard that, you know, Luke Musgrave had a little bit of an issue blocking the first practice. Has he seemed to progress with it or is there kind of something that they should, you know, maybe he needs to work it out or should we just wait till, you know, the first game to really have any kind of concern with it?
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's going to be an, an, and something we're just going to continue to keep our eyes on. It's going to be ever evolving. I don't think it's going to go from, you know, obviously we hope to see progression, but I don't think it's going to be, it's going to be something that he's navigating the entire season. Matt Lafleur and we all know about talked about the jump from, uh,
00:06:11
Speaker
college to the NFL for tight ends, uh, in the locker room after last week's practice, asked Luke Musgrave, you know, about that jump and what is, you know, one of the more challenging parts of it. And he said it's blocking. Um, and so that's just going to be something that he's going to have to navigate as the season goes on. Um, where his, we're really obviously going to notice him is in the passing game.
00:06:33
Speaker
But to pivot a little bit, but stick into the blocking part of it, I think that that's also going to be why Tyler Davis carves out a role within this offense. He's held up very well. Specifically as a blocker and as you know, scrolling our Twitter feeds, that's not going to be something that jumps out or cause he's not running. He's not being asked to run, you know, a ton of routes. You have Luke Musgrave, you have Tucker craft. That's what they're going to do. Um,
00:07:00
Speaker
But he's holding up. Well, there's a couple of reps that I have, you know, coming to mind right now where he's matched up against Lucas van Ness and is able to hold his own in that capacity. So when you have such a young tight end room where.
00:07:12
Speaker
Again, there's a transition, especially with the blocking aspect of it. And you have Tyler Davis, who, if he can continue to perform at the level that he has so far in that blocking capacity, he's absolutely going to carve out a role within this offense, especially with just how important that element is to making everything else work.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. That's a good answer. Um, something I think is, um, I think that, that is like really promising to see, you know, it's like, just to kind of like, like you mentioned the start there, it's like the abundance of weapons that Maliflu has to work with now. It really felt like at some points last season and especially with injuries that there was just really no one to kind of execute what he wanted to, you know, I mean, we were running end arounds with Alan Lazard and now we have, you know,
00:07:58
Speaker
Tyler Goodson, Jayden Reed, Christian Watson, you know, maybe even try and get Wix in there occasionally. Like there's just so much more to work with, so much more explosiveness. And yeah, to touch on the blocking thing as well, you know, I think, you know, Musgrave is a guy who has all those physical tools. I think, you know, the dream projection is something like Travis Kelsey, where
00:08:17
Speaker
He's like blocking isn't his strength, but he can do it. Um, and like, you know, for me, he comes down to like, if Matt LaFlore could get Robert Tanyan and Jimmy Graham become serviceable blockers, uh, with a guy who's young and probably a bit more willing to block like, like Musgrave, I have full faith that he'll be fine.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, after the draft, Brian Gudukin said, in regards to Musgrave, they view him as being an all-around tight end. It's going to take some time to get to that capacity. And when you have that ability within the offense, and he said the same thing about Tucker Kraft to bring in that ability, it just adds so much unpredictability to the offense. Because if we look at last year's tight end room, while Mercedes Lewis was heck of a blocker, super reliable in that capacity,
00:09:04
Speaker
Robert Tunyon, super reliable as a pass catcher. When they were on the field, you kind of had an idea of what their roles were going to be. Not that big dog didn't, you know, run some rows, not that Tunyon wasn't asked to block, but you kind of knew, all right, he's doing this, he's doing that. If you can get that all encompassed in tight end, who can
00:09:24
Speaker
hold up as a run blocker, impact the passing game in terms of being the defense pre-snap again, plays into that illusion of complexity as the play caller, Matt LeFlore can do a lot more in terms of what he's asking these guys to do, keeps defenses off balance, adds again, that unpredictability that I mentioned. And again, hopefully take some of that playmaking burden off of the quarterback position. For
Luke Musgrave's Offensive Role
00:09:48
Speaker
sure. And that's what I was kind of getting to was, you know, if,
00:09:54
Speaker
Everybody scouts the Packers and realizes Musgrave's not going to block. So the only time that they're going to trot them out there is to run routes. Then it's at least a little easier to scheme. So I, you know, if we can see his progression go to be even serviceable, you know, I'm not saying he's to go out there and be a big dog, right? You know, there's no doubt about it. There's only one big dog and you know, if they wanted him, they were going to keep him.
00:10:19
Speaker
Um, but at least enough that he's not going to get his running back or Jordan love killed when they're running that type of play. But it's great that we have the two playmakers. I know there's even been hype with, um, Daguaro in his role.
00:10:38
Speaker
Tyler Davis I you know, I know they're trying his blocking stuff is great, but he just it Nick can attest to my disdain for Tyler Davis for the longest time just because it seemed like all he was doing was taking up a roster spot but You know, it's I've said for the longest time that this year is an interesting year and it's got me more excited than it has for a long time and
00:11:08
Speaker
and these young guys are really, really putting it in there. Now, something that I saw on some clips earlier, I guess they had that, I think it's Henry. I know the last name is Pearson because we have the same last name. So, but he's been playing, he was a tight end, but they're playing him strictly as a fullback now. Is he going to be,
00:11:37
Speaker
competition for Duara or is this something that, you know, there may be finally a spot for a fullback that we haven't had since Danny Vitale in 2019. If, if I had to guess, you know, Pearson's ceiling this year is the practice squad and, you know, potentially as a
00:12:00
Speaker
DeGora backup maybe if he were to get injured. When they're doing individual drills, the specific position groups, DeGora and Henry are even separated from the tight ends, working through a lot of blocking out of the backfield, work with their position coach and then they go back and
00:12:22
Speaker
continue to work with the tight ends, uh, within line blocking and past catching and all of that stuff. So that's the capacity that I see him being in, you know, DeGora expect him to have more opportunities this season in part, just because of the makeup of the tight end room.
00:12:39
Speaker
But he's entering his, I believe it's fourth season now. He, you know, knows the Matla Fleur offense, you know, and that's, that's just a tough ass to have a rookie come in, you know, in a, in a role where there's a ton of responsibilities. I mean, we talk about the tight end. The H back has a ton too.
00:12:57
Speaker
So that's the kind of where I see Pearson fall in practice squad is the ceiling and you know, at least could be some insurance for if to go or where to get injured. But even at that point, I'm not sure if we would have to see more to even determine if they would feel comfortable bringing them up in that capacity.
00:13:16
Speaker
I just thought it was kind of funny that they had the video of him being the lone player and doing position drills and that. It was really weird, but I got a chuckle out of it. And like I said, I got a soft spar because we do the shit. I don't know if that's a relation or not, but we do share the same last name.
00:13:36
Speaker
So something I want to ask about here now, guys, moving away from the offense, what do you think about this defense? I mean, you know, they've won every single competitive period at the end of every practice besides today. You know, like, it just seems like they're kind of running with a lot of confidence. You know, Jair is talking a lot about
00:13:53
Speaker
you know having a bit more uh trust in kind of the play call and you know not like yeah just kind of working together more than trying to work individually and you know they do seem like they have kind of regained some of that confidence after you know a disappointing uh 2022 season. Are there any players that have really stuck out for you you know there's I mean obviously TJ Slayton is kind of poised to be a starter this year um you know what comes to mind for you with the offense in mind?
Defensive Performance Analysis
00:14:18
Speaker
Yeah. So the success for this defense, the opportunity for them to bounce back, it starts with the, it starts with the interior defensive line and stopping the run. Uh, there's a stat from last season, I feel just kind of encapsulates the Packers run defense performance. They were the eighth best on third downs in terms of getting off the field, which when I first saw that stat, I I'll be honest, I didn't think it was going to be that high, but.
00:14:43
Speaker
The other side of that coin is they faced the fewest third downs per game in the NFL. So how does that correlate to the run? When they're on third downs, good chance that they had the offense in third and long situations. That's where this defense thrives. Brian Guti can set. They have a ton of pass rush options. Those guys can pin their ears back. They can get after the quarterback. They have playmaking guys in the secondary. Obviously, that's advantageous for them.
00:15:12
Speaker
On the flip side, they faced the fewest third downs per game because teams weren't getting there. They were moving the chains on first down. They were moving the chains on second down. And a lot of that starts with giving up chunk run plays that puts them in second and shorts, opens up the playbook for the entire offense.
00:15:29
Speaker
Defense is now on its heels. Offense is the one dictating everything. So if this team is, defense specifically is going to bounce back, that's where it starts. And it's going to take the entire front seven, you know, obviously the interior guys are a key part of that. They're the, they're the frontline, but it's the edge rushers. They, as a group have to be better at setting the edge. Linebackers have to be better at filling the gaps. Overall, the tackling has to improve.
00:15:55
Speaker
So to me, I've been watching the interior defensive line a lot for that reason. And also tight end and receiver are getting a ton of attention, but that's a super young room as well. Take Kenny Clark out of the equation. TJ Slayton's played fewer than 600 snaps. Devontae Wyatt's played fewer than 250. No one else on the roster has any NFL snaps. It's super young, but what I will say
00:16:19
Speaker
in terms of them standing out, they look so much faster than I think what we're used to seeing from a Packers defensive line. Devontae Wyatt's getting more snaps. Kobe Wooden tested incredibly well athletically. Karl Brooks, someone else who brings some of that burst to the interior defensive line. Whether it's getting push and penetrating into the backfield, flowing sideline to sideline,
00:16:44
Speaker
When the ball carries move in that direction, this group just looks so much faster. And if you don't mind, I'll go on. I'm going to go off on a little side tangent here. Go ahead. The play callers podcast or yeah, the play callers podcast. I was presented by the athletic where it's focused on, you know, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Lafour, that coaching tree. They also interviewed Brandon Staley, the Los Angeles chargers head coach.
00:17:10
Speaker
And because his or the Vic Fangio defensive scheme is kind of taken over the NFL a little bit similar to kind of what Shanahan and McVays is.
Defensive Line Strategy Shift
00:17:19
Speaker
And of course, Joe Berry was brought to Green Bay by Matt Lefleur to run a version of that off or that defense. So they're interviewing Brandon Staley. He's talking about the type of interior defensive lineman he needs. And two of the things that he mentioned were versatility,
00:17:34
Speaker
which this group very much has wooden brooks both played up and down the line in college. Obviously we know Kenny Clark can do that as well. And then speed. They're looking for more gap penetrators rather than the Tyler Lancaster's the Dean Lowery's that we've seen in Green Bay that are more
00:17:53
Speaker
you know, doing the dirty work, space occupiers, uh, you know, just clogging up the middle. And so as we look at the moves that Brian Goudekins has made over the last two years, wooden brooks take, bring it into Vontae wide as well. It feels like there's been a real focus shift in terms of bringing in that specific type of interior defender. Now.
00:18:15
Speaker
To say all that, I have no clue what this unit's going to do this year, how we're going to perform. I'm in very much, Hey, you got to show me right now for not just the defensive front of this defense as a whole, but that's the biggest observation I've had from that unit is the speed and the versatility is absolutely showing up in training camp. And hopefully it translates into the regular season. Cause like I said, at the start of this, this entire thing, it starts with stopping the run.
00:18:45
Speaker
The one name that I was surprised that coach LeFlore brought up was Jonathan Ford. He said that he, he looks like he's, you know, what was the exact quote? Something like, um, yeah, up to his game. That's it. Yeah. And.
00:19:03
Speaker
You know, I know a lot of people are down on him and he really didn't play any last year, but I was kind of interested in him coming out because he looked like he had potential. Sorry, I'm messing with my dust cover. It keeps moving on me.
00:19:22
Speaker
And I really haven't heard it. It was kind of weird hearing the floor say that because I really hadn't heard anything from anybody, you know, any of the beat writers or that talking about him during any of the practices. So, you know, even so that he must be doing something right. If even the head coach is coming out and saying, Hey, you know, he's, he's upped his game. He looks like he's doing something.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I think a part of that too is it was unprompted. It's not like you specifically asked about Jonathan Ford and gave that answer. He was, the floor was actually asked about the center position and Josh Myers, and then just took it in a completely different direction and started talking about the interior defensive line and how they've played well at the start of training camp here. And, uh,
00:20:11
Speaker
Ford has been with a lot of times the second unit, you know, the, uh, why it's slate and Clark, they're the big three that they're going to lean on. Kobe Woods, the fourth guy in the rotation, you know, Ford's playing for the six spot on this team. And also.
00:20:27
Speaker
He's six, five he's three 38. Like his role on this team is going to be as a run defender. And at times, you know, those guys, just that role and what you're asked to do, that just always isn't going to leap out off of the screen or the stat sheet, whatever you're looking at. So I think all that's playing into why we.
00:20:45
Speaker
haven't heard as much about him up to this point, but his path to the roster is clear. Like it is as the secondary nose tackle option to TJ Slayton. And again, I'm going to reference that Brian Gudkin's quote from earlier. They have guys who can get after the quarterback. They have plenty of those, but who can be those guys to step up against the run? Obviously it's Slayton. Clark is going to be relied on cause he's kind of Clark and he's just that good, but.
00:21:13
Speaker
Clark can't play a hundred percent of the run snaps and a hundred percent of the pass rush snaps. So if you want them on the field for run defense, he's not on the field for pass rush and vice versa. These other guys need to step up and for Ford, you know, that's going to be his path to his team. If he can prove to be someone who, you know, again, it's not going to be a high usage guy, but if he can, you know, give you 10, 12 quality snaps a game as a run defender, you know, that's going to be how he can earn a spot as the six interior defensive lineman on this roster.
00:21:44
Speaker
to kind of stick with the defense and maybe you can give an answer and maybe you can't. But I saw that Rizul got a little heated today. Do we know what that was over or is that still kind of a team secret?
00:22:04
Speaker
He was just very enthused about the team drill. I don't think that there was anything, uh, you know, taking place. He was just, he was just out there bringing, bringing the energy, bringing the juice. And, um, you know, I think, I think that's, you know, that's, that's exciting to see this time of the year from, from, uh, it's, it's amazing. I just, I know the way they were putting it, he was kind of saying some things that maybe he shouldn't have been saying to the point where.
00:22:31
Speaker
It got Tucker Kraft to quote Step Brothers. And I know Matt Schneiderman kind of, I don't know if you want to call it clickbaity or not, but he said, I'll try to get an answer from Rizool, but I'm not going to say what he said on Twitter. But if he'll say it to me in the locker room, I'll put the quote out there.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah, what I'll say, the Rasul Jair Kishan Nixon, like that cornerback room, they've all been playing extremely well at the start of camp here as well. And even the secondary options, you know, Corey Valentine, Carrington Valentine as the boundary cornerbacks with the second defense, like this cornerback room has looked really, really good. I know it's not, you know, breaking news to sit here and say that Jair Alexander's playing at a high level, but he's really playing at a high level right now. Like,
00:23:23
Speaker
He, the ball's either not going his direction or, you know, he, a lot of times he is absolutely all over it. So, you know, in addition to just monitoring the interior defensive line play, the cornerback room to me has leaped off the practice field as well, just because of the overall high level of play that we're seeing from that group.
00:23:44
Speaker
Something I kind of want to ask about here, because it seems like it's a real gray area, is what's happening with this safety room. You know, we've kind of seen Jonathan Owens almost in a starter role. Anthony Johnson, of course, is getting some snaps in there. You know, we're seeing like in his games, playing more as well. Like, what are you saying like coming from that area of the back field that like you do you have has like a has two siders really like kind of define
Safety Lineup Competition
00:24:08
Speaker
themselves yet? Or is it still pretty open?
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like in terms of who is going to make the team, it feels like there's been a separation in that regard. And I'll touch on that more in a second. In terms of who's the starting, who's the second unit, it felt like we were kind of seeing that defined as well. But that was thrown off a bit recently. So for going back to OTAs, it's been Darnell Savage and Rudy Ford as the starters. And I don't think that's terribly surprising to anyone.
00:24:40
Speaker
But now that we're getting a little deeper into training camp, new guys like Tavarius Moore, Jonathan Owens getting more comfortable with the defensive scheme. We saw Jonathan Owens on Thursday lining up next to Rudy Ford with the starters. And he and Tavarius Moore have primarily been with the second defense.
00:25:00
Speaker
And then there's Dallen Levitt, who's a core special teams player. He spent his entire career under Rich Bassaccia, either in Green Bay or in Las Vegas. And there's at least one instance, I think there were maybe even two last season I can think of where Aaron Rogers specifically mentioned Levitt in terms of just his locker room presence, the leadership aspect that he brings.
00:25:22
Speaker
And with a young team, I mean, I think that can be important to have. So I'm just having a hard time envisioning a Packers 53 without Levitt. So right there, everyone that I just mentioned is already five safeties.
00:25:34
Speaker
I looked this up the last time they kept six safeties was 2016. So it's not exactly something that I'm banking on at this point, not to say that it can't happen, but very uncommon as well. And so that means at least based off who we've seen with the first, second team defenses, Levitt's role in special teams in his gains and Anthony Johnson. No, that leaves them off the roster at this time. And I know there's a lot of excitement around Anthony Johnson. I think he can.
00:26:02
Speaker
I think he's been compared a little bit in terms of play style to filling an Adrian Amos like role. I believe I saw someone say, and you see that there was one rep where he's at deep safety, identify as the run has taken place, fires up to the line of scrimmage, fills the gap, stops the run.
00:26:22
Speaker
It was a terrific play, but he's been with the third defense for going back to offseason programs. And I don't think we should be terribly surprised by that because he's not only making the jump from college to the NFL. This is only a second year at safety. He spent four years as a cornerback at Iowa State. So he's still learning a relatively new position for him.
00:26:44
Speaker
Now, when it comes to in his games, I don't know what his path to the roster looks like. We just talked about the cornerback room that's playing really well and is crowded. Safety room's crowded, but he's gotten some snaps with the second team defense playing in the slot. And when he played the final three games of last season, that's where he spent his time. I think he had 31, 32 slot snaps.
00:27:07
Speaker
And so as we look at the Packers cornerback room and how it's constructed, Kishon Nixon's the slot guy right now, but who else within that room is like a true slot cornerback? Rasool, Stokes, Valentine, Valentine, they're boundary. Jair, you just want him wherever the best guy is. So that's a potential role he could carve out as.
00:27:29
Speaker
the backup slot. He was also a contributor on special teams last season. He started off the year on the practice squad, so he ranked 19th on the Packers and special team snaps, but he ranked six on the team in solo tackles, showing some of that playmaking ability. So you couple those two things together and you can see someone who can be a contributor.
00:27:49
Speaker
who can, you know, find carve out a role on this defense. But again, going back to the overall cornerback room, the overall safety room from a numbers standpoint, that's where we just need to see more take place. We need to get to the preseason games. We need to see, you know, who's where in terms of first unit, second unit, how are guys performing? But right now,
00:28:13
Speaker
In a roundabout way, that's how I feel the safety position stands right now. Those five that I mentioned, Savage, Ford, Owens, Moore, Levitt really feel like that could be the week one position group.
00:28:27
Speaker
for at safety. Um, and then right now, Matt LeFlore said too, they're going to continue to rotate guys. You know, he said that he told us that on Saturday. So the fact that Owens was in there with Ford, you know, it's too early to sit here and say, Oh, he's, he's taken over savages spot. I think they're just seeing, cause there's so much unknown. They're just given everyone an opportunity and they're seeing what they can do. Yeah. Um,
00:28:52
Speaker
That's what it seemed like to me, but obviously I'm not up there to see the groups, but it just seemed like they were trying to pair everybody together to see how well they work together with each other.
00:29:03
Speaker
And, you know, as much as I hate to say it, but I am kind of rooting for Anthony Johnson Jr. Just, you know, I have kind of a little story from when I was up there in June with him where I was, I had my stuff to get autographs and he come out and I said, you know, I asked him if he'd sign my picture and he said, yeah, well, I always wear an Iowa Hawkeye hat when I'm up there.
00:29:29
Speaker
And he walked away and then like two seconds later, you could see it like click in his head and he comes back. I didn't even recognize that. I wouldn't even sign for you if I saw that ad on your head. Um, but you know, he, like you said, Paul, he he's only been a safety for a short amount of time, but
00:29:49
Speaker
He's got such an athletic, you know ability to him I think they're just gonna slow roll him until they have to use him because and I I don't know how he doesn't make the roster because I don't think they're gonna be able unless something major happens I don't know if he'd be able to Skim through to the practice squad
00:30:11
Speaker
But, you know, it's still too early. Anything could happen, but it's kind of weird to say that with the doom and gloom we've had out of the safety position or the way people talk about the safety position that we're already, you know, I'm already talking about how maybe we're not even going to get one or two of them back onto the practice squad. But, um,
00:30:33
Speaker
No, go ahead. I was just going to say like, we know that the Packers prefer if they can, especially those, or for those back end roster spots to keep the guys that they drafted. And I think Jonathan Ford last year is just a prime example of that seventh round pick, you know, the outside looking in it. And I think a lot of agree. It felt like Jack Heflin, even Chris Slayton.
00:30:54
Speaker
may have outplayed Ford during the preseason, but they gave Ford the roster spot, even though I think he was an active all 17 games on game day. But the Packers had 13 draft picks this year. Like, yeah, they've had roster turnover. It's, it's a young team, but fitting 13 draft picks onto the roster. It's, it's not easy not to say they can't do it or won't do it, but I think
00:31:17
Speaker
in, in looking at how they've operated in the past in terms of squeezing. And this isn't just an Anthony, you know, in reference to Anthony Johnson, but you know, the late round picks as a whole and looking back at how they've squeezed those guys on the roster. It's just a lot more difficult this year, just because of the sheer number of draft picks that they had. Right. But, um, speaking of draft picks, I, we probably should get into this one a little bit. Anders Anders, I guess it's auditors Carlson. Um,
00:31:48
Speaker
you know, so far he's not looking amazing. He's not been horrible, but I guess it came out. Was it yesterday or today that they hadn't been keeping track of it, but it seemed like he was doing well when Pat O'Donnell's holding compared to when that I can't think of his first name, but Whelan was holding. So is that, you know, I know it just came out. So is that something you've noticed when you've been there or
00:32:14
Speaker
Do we need to kind and obviously they're gonna just go with the flow and let the guy kick and unless he double doinks every game of The year, you know, I don't think that they're gonna move on from him because this is a basachi a guy so I mean What is your thoughts on Anders? Yeah, I
00:32:36
Speaker
You're, you're right. He's a Bessatchia guy. Like I think it was rich himself said that he met with him one-on-one, like flew down to Auburn prior to the draft. Obviously worked with his brother, Daniel, and, and Brian Gudakhan said the familiarity that rich has with Anders played a big, big role in them drafting him. The Packers knew.
00:32:55
Speaker
that there were going to be days like this, like they're like last Saturday where he goes one for six. You got a rookie kicker coming in. He's the only one in camp. You knew that this was going to happen. And they're, oh, they were obviously aware of that. And based on goodie's comments, they're going to give him.
00:33:11
Speaker
They're going to give him time. They're going to give him time, you know, over the coming weeks to see if he can be the guy come, come training or come regular season that they can rely on. Cause good. He said, not just referring to Carlson, but all the young guys, they need reps right now. And that's a big reason why there's not a second kicker in camp to, to challenge them because.
00:33:31
Speaker
the opportunities to kick field goals in that team setting in the practice field, it's so limited. He's only getting up in that environment. Obviously he's getting more up, you know, throughout the day, but in that specific window, he's only getting up six kicks. So now if you've got another kicker in there, you know, maybe it's only three kicks or maybe it's six, but then he's not the next day. So they're going to give him that opportunity to go and prove that he can be the guy. And I'm going to pivot to punter real quick.
00:34:01
Speaker
Cause Daniel Whelan, he's got a heck of a, he really does. And, but there's so much more that's going to come with this role. Like a big reason that they signed Pat O'Donnell a year ago was because of his ability as a holder, you know, Corey, but Horquez, the punter from 2021, he had a big leg too, but was, uh, inconsistent in the holding part of it. So now you got a rookie kicker. You got a rookie punter, like.
00:34:28
Speaker
That, that may not end well. And so I think that's something we just have to keep in mind too, rather than looking at, you know, wheeling, bombing the ball 55 yards is hanged times 4.6 seconds. Like that's great. But how is he doing in, in that capacity? Because chances are this is a Packers offense at least early on as they try to figure things out.
00:34:49
Speaker
You know, situationally in the red zone, um, on third downs may struggle. It's going to put points in a premium. It might mean more field goal attempts when they cross midfield versus being able to punch it into the end zone. Not to say that field goals, extra points don't matter. They always matter. But if you're not putting up a ton of points, they matter even more. And so being able to capitalize on that is going to be incredibly important.
00:35:14
Speaker
Another thing about Anders, I don't know if you would know or not, does he still have the brace on his plant leg? Or was that just the last year of college that he had it? No, he doesn't right now. And I guess I'm not certain, but part of me thinks he didn't even play that full season at Auburn with the brace on either. But no, he doesn't have it right now.
00:35:36
Speaker
Well, I was just wondering because that could be something that's factoring into it too, where he finally got used to wearing the brace. And now he's trying to go back the other way of not wearing the brace. But if he's not, if he hasn't had it for a while, then that's probably not it. And it's not like, and I mean, part of the, again, from the outside looking in part of the head scratch and part about the pick was he wasn't this guy that had this pristine, you know, make percentage coming out of Auburn. I think he had 71 of his career attempts.
00:36:05
Speaker
So the fact that he's, you know, missing some kicks right now, it at least mirrors what he did in school. But again, there's the familiarity that Satya has talked about.
00:36:17
Speaker
The, the, in his words, he said the mental makeup that Carlson has, uh, he's got a big, big leg, like that, that's not the issue. It's just about harnessing that. And Bassaccia also talked about his, uh, just big game experience in college, the bowl games Auburn was in competing in the sec every week. Like those are some of the intangibles that, you know, stood out to them and gave them the confidence to make that pick.
00:36:47
Speaker
That's really interesting that point you made about the holding because as you said with Buhorkas, he kind of struggled with that, right? And JK Sculp was almost the exact opposite where he struggled with the punting, but he was a fantastic holder and we saw him save so many errant passes from long snappers. That's really interesting. And I guess, you know, like you guys have said, we kind of knew this was going to be a thing.
00:37:06
Speaker
You know, a lot of kickers, sometimes it just takes a while for them to click, whether it's getting comfortable or they change something about their actual motion. You know, I think like Yung Wei Ku is a perfect example. He was like pretty terrible his first year. And with the Falcons now, he's actually quite solid. So, you know, hopefully we'll see that kind of from Carlson. Yeah, definitely up and down so
Offensive Line Battle Insights
00:37:27
Speaker
far.
00:37:27
Speaker
Something I've been very interested in that's coming out more today is this kind of the O-line battle, right? I mean, you know, I think they have decided pretty much, as far as we can tell, that Zach Tom is going to be a starter somewhere on this line, whether it's at center or tackle, remains to be seen. But that battle is just so fascinating to me. And honestly, I didn't think that they had the guts to really address it like this in training camp.
00:37:53
Speaker
Um, the fact that, you know, uh, the matlock floor had that quote today about Josh Myers, that he's, he's good, but they need consistency. I think that's really, really telling. And I think a lot of us kind of knew that, right? But it's like, it was always kind of surprising to hear a coach say that so bluntly. This, this battle, you know, where are you at? What have you seen? What do you personally think? And what do you expect from the guys even behind in depth, but like, uh, Sean Ryan, who's made a really fantastic recovery.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, so Madelfor said today, like you said, it's about consistency. And I think we see that when Myers puts it together, he performs well, but it's just the ups and downs.
00:38:35
Speaker
I think where Zach Tom ends up playing, because offensive line play, it's the sum of the parts over the individual. A really, really good left side, but a struggling right side, the collective unit isn't going to perform very well. So in determining where he's going to be, where's the biggest talent gap? Is it between him and Meyers at center or him and Nyman at right tackle?
00:38:56
Speaker
And at least based on what I've seen up to this point, he, uh, Tuesday was Tom's first time taking snaps at center with the starters. And so I think at least for me, there needs to be a larger sample size, but he's like, uh, like he said, Nick, he's absolutely one of the five, like without question. And one other thing I.
00:39:16
Speaker
in the, I did an article writing about kind of some standout performers here in training camp. And I threw Tom on the list because I think as Packer fans, we've seen Elton Jenkins move around. We're now seeing Zach Tom move around, but like that's not normal. It's not normal, especially to go from the interior to tackle. And then the next drill you're back to play in center and do it all at a high level. So I, I wanted to make sure I wrote in Zach Tom in that article because it's,
00:39:43
Speaker
It's really impressive what he's doing and he's absolutely holding his own. And he told us in the locker room on Tuesday after that practice that he's put on 15 to 20 pounds over the off season with the intention of, you know, I'm doing this to be better in the run game. So.
00:40:01
Speaker
again, still to be determined where he's going to fall. If I were making up the offensive line right now, based on what I've seen, I think I would put him at center and Nyman at right tackle. But again, a lot to be determined. As far as the secondary or the second team offensive line, it's been pretty well set. Your left tackle has been Rashid Walker.
00:40:22
Speaker
right tacklesman Caleb Jones. Up until Jake Hanson got injured, he had been at center. And then now it's kind of been either Myers or Tom, depending on who's not with the ones. And then the guards have been Royce Newman and Sean Ryan. And like your reference, Nick, Sean Ryan and the individual drills, the one on one against the interior defenders has done really, really well. So that group right now seems set.
00:40:49
Speaker
That gives them 10 offense alignment right there, you know, the six who are battling for the five spots. And then you got Jones Walker, Ryan Newman as the, as the next four, like that could be the Packers, you know, roster of, of offense alignment come week one.
00:41:08
Speaker
What a privilege to have so much versatility in this group. I mean, between Zach Tom, Elton Jenkins, Yosh Naiman, Sean Ryan, Royce Newman, these guys can play all over the line, even if just at guard. Having guys who can legitimately flip and stay solid, consistent, that's such a privilege. And Zach Tom, who's fighting for two different starting spots, is absolutely crazy as a fifth round second year player.
00:41:36
Speaker
on an O-line that has so many good players already. I mean, yeah, this is another classic example of how the Packers could get these guys in.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's a, it's very good and something to watch just on the, on the back end is those developmental tackles Jones and Walker. Cause this is a position of depth for green Bay right now. They give, they got a lot of options at offensive tackle, but 2024, there could be some definite question marks. This might be back to Ari's last year. Yash. Nyman's an unrestricted free agent in 2024. The good news, I guess, is that the offensive tackle class next year is supposedly supposed to be really, really good.
00:42:14
Speaker
But we could see Walker or we could see Jones with the opportunity to start next year. I don't think either of them are going to be handed that by any means, but they could be competing for starting time next summer. And both of them are on a similar timeline to Yash Nyman. Nyman was an undrafted rookie in 2019. His first significant snaps came in 2021. It was that San Francisco game where Green Bay headed out West early on in the regular season there.
00:42:42
Speaker
These two 2024 Walker and Jones, it's going to be their third season in the NFL Walker seventh round pick Jones, a UDFA. So they seem to be on a similar path. Um, and I, and it definitely feels like, again, based on how the, the starting and second team units are constructed that, you know, they could have another year on the roster as pretty much developmental players. Like they're, they're not going to be, you know, barring a slew of injuries. They're not going to be needed, you know, this season.
00:43:13
Speaker
Now, this is a way too early question because we've still got a bunch of training camp left before it, but is there any, a real possibility that one of either Meyers or Nyman is on the trade block by the end of the training camp? I don't think so. Offensive line depth is so important. Um, and we know the Packers really, really value it. So even if you have one of those guys coming off the bench, for example, as, as a backup, I think that
00:43:42
Speaker
the Packers would rather have that than, you know, what, whatever draft pick they could, they could get in return. Cause just like the defensive line and stopping the run is success with defense. Offensive lines are key to success for the offensive. Love doesn't have time. It's not going to end well. If the run game isn't consistent and they're facing second and longs, third and longs, it's not going to end well. So I just don't see the Packers go on that route.
00:44:09
Speaker
Well, kind of speaking of love, it's been kind of controversial, so to say, between the personalities on Twitter.
Jordan Love's Quarterback Performance
00:44:19
Speaker
You've got one side saying that he's looking tremendous throughout. And then you've at least one specifically, uh, saying that, you know, he's had one good practice and then one all right practice and then a bunch of practices.
00:44:37
Speaker
So we're, what are we looking at or are just some of these guys buying into love already? Or is he actually, I mean, we see the clips and all that and we see the good throws, but, um, you know, is he really looking like he's ready to take on QB one role?
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah, he still definitely needs to be more consistent. Like that day we, you know, the Christian Watson clip was out there and even that pass to Jayden Reed that he didn't catch, but was just a beautifully placed ball. Like that same day he bounced one off a Quay Walker's chest that he wasn't able to come down with. So consistency is absolutely needed, but I think, you know,
00:45:19
Speaker
If you're looking for encouragement, those passes that I just referenced, there was another one where Samori Toure ran a quick out and then up.
00:45:28
Speaker
And they had been running, the receivers had been running out all day, all day. And so Resul Douglas saw the out, got super aggressive, and then Toure turns up field. So he gets a step on Douglas and Love is about 30 yards downfield. Just drop the ball in there perfectly. If it's too far left, Toure drifts out of bounds. If it's too far right, Savage is coming over, has a chance to break it up.
00:45:50
Speaker
So those, we see those, you know, wow throws. And I think that shows the ceiling, the potential that's out there for him. When you have a quarterback who can throw guys open, like those plays there. I mean, that can take the offense to, to a whole another level versus the pass catchers having to create that separation or the scheme, having to create that separation. So again.
00:46:15
Speaker
A lot more consistency is needed, but that shows the, the potential, the ceiling that's out there for him in that regard. And one other thing I'll add is Matla Fleur has talked about with love. It's about the process. That's what they're concerned about right now, more so than the results. And if the process is done consistently and it's done correctly, the results will follow. So what does he mean by that? Getting in and out of the huddle quickly, good base in the pocket, throwing
00:46:43
Speaker
with timing, throwing in rhythm, good mechanics that lead to accurate passes, going through his progressions, good footwork. And I do think that we are seeing more of those parts of the game become a bit more consistent for him, which again, should lead to more results for him, uh, you know, on the practice field. And one, one other thing I'll add is, you know, there've been some drops by these receivers too. So when we see his, you know, numbers at the end of the day that are posted on Twitter, you know,
00:47:13
Speaker
This is a young receiver group. There are drops as well that don't always tell the whole story either. Yeah, it's like you're saying the kind of progression out of love and obviously there's going to be consistencies. He's just stepping into this role. But what we've seen so far, I guess it's kind of a little bit par for the course and a little bit of a taste of what potential kind of is there.
00:47:39
Speaker
Um, and I guess that's one of the really hard things about Packers, uh, campus specifically is that there really isn't much to like for us to say, you know, someone like me is in a different country or guys who aren't actually there at the practices. There's not much for us to say, so it can be really hard to judge. Um, I think it's kind of interesting as well. Like, um, it seems like some of the receivers are having trouble with this, like catching in general as well, which maybe is part of it. Um, but you know.
00:48:05
Speaker
I think it's still so early to really determine anything about love. But what a fascinating situation for us to be able to tune into. Yeah, his performance so far, just overall 30,000 foot view, I'm not terribly surprised. He's had some really impressive throws. We know he has the arm talent. That was one of his strengths coming out of the draft. He's had some interceptions or near interceptions. He's a first time starting quarterback. That's going to happen.
00:48:32
Speaker
But what he and the offense are really doing is taking advantage, when they do have sustained success, they're doing really well at taking advantage of the middle of the field. And I think that's one element in this offense, we're going to see a lot more of, and we know Aaron Rodgers preferred the boundaries, but the Shanahan offense, so the Fleur offense, you get the guys in space over the middle, yak potential, big play potential with that. So the offense has done a good job of taking advantage there.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's all about, you know, in the system, it's all about, you know, putting the linebackers and the safeties in difficult spots, right? Awesome. That's really cool to hear. So before we finish up here, Paul, is there anything of your own that you want to kind of just talk about any articles you've written or stuff in general you'd do like to talk about here?
Paul's Work and Social Media
00:49:15
Speaker
Ah, we got through all my big stuff. Great questions. I appreciate the opportunity to join you.
00:49:21
Speaker
Follow me on Twitter at Paul underscore breadle can find my work at Packers wire, Dairyland express, got a YouTube channel as well, where a lot of the topics we discussed today, observations from training camp. I talk about articles that I've written just my name, Paul breadle. Awesome.
00:49:37
Speaker
Well, thanks so much for coming on. Paul was fantastic to talk with you and get, get so much detail in these responses. Um, as always guys, you can find us on Twitter, myself at Nicholas, GIGR Joe at Iowa underscore Joe 86 the podcast at app back underscore Packers. Make sure you like share, subscribe, all that good stuff. And until next time, we'll see you later.
00:50:09
Speaker
so