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Linebacker? I Hardly Know Her! | Packers LB Breakdown ft. Andrew Mertig
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The Green Bay Packers linebacker room is under the microscope on this episode of Ohana Packers Edition (OPE).
Special guest Andrew Mertig joins the show to break down the current state of the Packers linebackers and what Green Bay might do to strengthen the position.
From run-stopping thumpers to modern coverage linebackers, we dive into:
• The current Packers linebacker depth chart • What traits Green Bay looks for at the position • Potential draft targets and sleepers • How the LB room fits into the Packers defensive scheme
Could the Packers add another playmaker to the middle of the defense? And which prospects could be wearing green and gold next season?
If you love draft talk, defensive breakdowns, and all things Packers football… this episode is for you.
🧀 Doink along with us.
#GoPackGo #PackersNation #NFLDraft #Cheeseheads
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction & Episode Overview
00:00:56
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ohana Packers Edition podcast. Today we continue on along with our 2026 draft preview with Andrew Murtig as we cover linebackers.
Andrew's First Draft Discussion
00:01:08
Speaker
Andrew, thank you for joining us. Well, I should say thank you for joining Joe again and nice to meet you.
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, super, super excited to be here. This is officially my first actual draft discussion of the year. So much different than prior years, but but super happy to be here.
00:01:29
Speaker
That's how we work things. you know we We try to make sure this is the first one people get to or the only one in in certain other people's cases like Sarah next week. So, but it's always great. Bribery and blackmail are are our are our choices, our weapons of choice. But no.
00:01:50
Speaker
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, often it doesn't. But this is one of the few cases where
Packers' Roster Moves & Free Agency
00:01:56
Speaker
it did. na
00:02:01
Speaker
But it's always good to have the doc on the on the podcast. And, you know, i we were just talking some about the position group before Mike jumped on and we started recording. So I'm i'm really looking forward to what what this discussion is going to be.
00:02:19
Speaker
You should hit the record button already. That's what it sounds like to me. Well, if somebody wouldn't have been wasting time. Hey, hey, 7 Central, you said, and it is 7 Central, but either way. yeah But like I said, Andrew, thank you for joining us. Just to set the bound set the backdrop, not the boundary, the Packers have been busy this week. you know Free agency officially started.
00:02:47
Speaker
a lot of things happened. Okay, wait, Joe, I've totally lost my marbles. The Isaiah Franklin trade had happened before we did our last episode, right? It had been announced, but right it couldn't take effect until...
00:03:03
Speaker
what was it tuesday yeah yeah okay so that's obviously the big one for this uh episode so you know and the the corresponding move to go with it is because we traded for zaire franklin who does have a couple years left on his deal quay walker was allowed to leave in free agency and side with the raiders other than that it's been a lot more moves around the periphery or buffering up our special teams with bringing back Christian Welch and, excuse me, Nick Neiman, who were two of the team's special teams standouts. Mike must have been hitting the booze before coming on.
00:03:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Just to last through this episode, but no, seriously. yeah So as it stands right now, and I don't know why Welch isn't showing up on the team's site.
Current Linebacker Roster Assessment
00:03:58
Speaker
Is that not official? Official, but whatever. Whatever, Packers. Get on that. So far, they have their listed linebackers on roster as Edge Cooper, zaer the aforementioned Zaire Franklin,
00:04:11
Speaker
Teron Hopper, Jamon Johnson, holdover, signed to a futures deal, Isaiah McDuffie, who's in the last year of his contract extension, Nick Neiman, and we'll just call him the new international man of mystery since Zane Anderson made off in free agency and Christian Welch was definitely reported by multiple sources to have re-signed with the Packers and for whatever reasons is not listed as a Packer by the Packers official website. But yeah,
00:04:38
Speaker
To each their own? Yeah, they got them still listed on the site, on the roster as an unrestricted free agent. So they must not have updated their... Either that it fell through.
00:04:51
Speaker
huh I'm trying to look through it And everything Packer Wire and Packer News and Yahoo and all them say that he he signed the contract.
00:05:02
Speaker
Hey, Wikipedia says he is currently a Packer. So that is that is the most concrete thing that you can find on the interweb. So we will stick with that. But Andrew, I'm sure Joe has given you the rundown. But we've started out with the official review.
00:05:20
Speaker
initial note where the roster stands so far and how it looks going into the draft. You know, we're finally getting to do one of these episodes with free agency relatively in the rearview mirror, especially for this position. But how are you feeling about the Packers, you know, set up going into the draft and where this fits in terms of their, you know, on the need meter for the backers?
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I think the Packers are are set up pretty well, right? Like you, of course, would love to have three all pros and, you know, always be able to play base. But the reality of situation is for an NFL franchise, they they have what you think is a star linebacker in Edger and Cooper.
00:06:03
Speaker
I think you have a really solid player, a legitimate NFL starter in Zaire Franklin. So whatever they're paying him, I don't care right now. Right. Like you just plug him in. He's he's your number two. And then between Tyron Hopper's potential development and then Isaiah McDuffie just being what he is a solid player, unspectacular, somebody who's capable as an NFL player. I think you're four deep.
00:06:29
Speaker
And given the fact that we anticipate the Packers are going to play nickel most of the time, i think four is fine. Would I love to see, you know, Hopper take a huge step or a hop forward? yeah, a hundred percent. Like that would be really great that that would one justify his draft pick, the third round and, and two, I think really solidify this unit. however, I think they're in a good enough situation. Now had Cooper misses time.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yes, they are in trouble, but I think most teams around the league would be facing a pretty similar situation. Yeah, and kind of to speak to what you're saying with regards to Franklin, you know, he had a down 2025, but had a, you know, he led the league, I think, in tackles in 2024. And even last year was amongst the leaders. But I mean, if you just count his, you know, and so I believe in terms of cap number, his cap number is $8 million.
00:07:23
Speaker
ish this season and it's like 10 ish next season but if you just go by the average cost of his contract over the duration of his deal his deal is only like 17th in terms of like where it ranks league-wide so just to kind of speak to you know what you're paying for versus you know hypothetically what you're expecting to get out of the position that's a pretty solid feedback from what you're hoping to get and like you noted the guy you're hope you're hoping slash expecting to be the stud at the position is still on year three of a rookie contract and that's really where you make your money worth it while at any position but especially one where
00:08:05
Speaker
The league still doesn't know how to do the value of what is an inside linebacker, off-ball linebacker in the NFL.
Defensive Strategies & Linebacker Roles
00:08:12
Speaker
And then kind of to further your point too, Andrew, is like, we still haven't gotten a solid answer on what base defense, quote unquote, is going to be for the Packers this season. We've heard both sides of the coin that...
00:08:26
Speaker
you know in different insiders and lafleur and gannon have been pretty mum on the topic but we've heard a lot of insiders state like oh ganon's you know got a little bit more background in this or that he did more three four in his time with you know in these situations or he did more four three years so it's like Honestly, it could go either way.
00:08:48
Speaker
And I think, honestly, that kind of just helps where the Packers are with their situation. Because like you said, Andrew, they have two solid, two very good options at linebacker. And then they have some, you know, they have Hopper who, you know, different people will say has different levels of upside. You have McDuffie who can come in and just be a tree trunk and run support.
00:09:11
Speaker
And...
00:09:15
Speaker
The dog didn't like that one. No.
00:09:20
Speaker
And...
00:09:22
Speaker
now mike lost his train of thought yeah and so to speak you know where it remains to be seen how they're going to value the position you know it's one where you could take another like cooper type swing if the right player falls but there's not the like clear need like when we took cooper or even when we took quay in 2022 where it's like oh like they have one or none at linebacker kind of thing like the the franklin trade while You know, last week's episode, Joe and I did talk about how like like you do hate to trade a guy from a position where you were are it was already a need to like. at But at least, you know, in the medium, it's like, OK, you should have shored up and answered some questions at another position.
Draft Prospects & Team Needs
00:10:08
Speaker
So, you know, we kind of pooh-poohed that trade a little bit a week ago because it's like, OK, like not that Wooden was like,
00:10:15
Speaker
the next all pro, but he did give you some answers to the test at one position, at least Franklin, even in a coming off a down year, it's like, okay, like you're looking to him to be the steady veteran. And as we've noted on many episodes and as Andrew noted today already, edge is supposed to be the guy that's going to be that second level defender. Who's going to take a step and be that stud along that part of the defense.
00:10:41
Speaker
I, and I think the, the core that we have now, and where everybody kind of sits, where they all kind of sit, I know we'll talk a little bit about the free agents here in in a minute with if there's any of that fit right now. But I think the best course that they're going to do is probably spend a draft pick on one just so they have the four year cheap contract in case because edge will be coming up on year three. So he's got one more year on his deal after this.
00:11:16
Speaker
McDuffie's only got one more year. I think this is his last year on his deal. Franklin only has another year after this.
00:11:27
Speaker
Hopper's got to be, what, two years left on his? Yeah, he'll have 27 and 28. and And you didn't even mention Jermon Johnson, whether he'll do anything.
00:11:42
Speaker
you know, be productive or whatever, if he's just going to end up being a special teams guy. So, you know, i have a feeling that they will spend a high-ish draft pick on a guy, depending on who's there.
00:11:59
Speaker
just so they have something going forward in case, you know, let's say Edge prices himself out of town or Zaire has a shit season and they decide to cut ties with them.
00:12:15
Speaker
They decide they don't want to bring McDuffie back. They, you know, whatever the case is, they at least have a guy that they can go forward with and, and, and kind of groomed to be that that heir apparent.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, kind of what you're speaking to, Joe, is like the only way this season really goes tits up for the Packers at linebacker is if Edge gets hurt. What's it called? Zaire just continues to trend downward. And Hopper just is a nothing.
00:12:47
Speaker
and like that That's really it. that That's the only way this position is just a sunk cost. But I do think that Edge is upside. And then especially because you know him and Kuei were kind of similar players in the sense that they're both like kind of havoc creators in terms of like you want them attacking the line of scrimmage shooting a gaps and stuff like that and you the the ideal is that zaire is a guy that can you know hold down the middle and allow you to be really creative with edge and that way that you know you can just ask edge to be the very best version of what he is as opposed to like okay you two need to create matched chaos so that it'll just like cover up a bunch of holes that you could create kind of thing so
00:13:33
Speaker
All that to be said, Andrew, it's pick
Free Agency vs Drafting for Linebackers
00:13:36
Speaker
52. The Packers. Well, hang on. no Let's do the free agent part of it. Oh, are there any free agents that really kind of fit the mold or do we just skip that and go to draft picks?
00:13:49
Speaker
I don't think the Packers are going to make a move in free agency at this point. Okay. I think the position is pretty well settled unless they fall in love with somebody in the draft. So I would...
00:14:02
Speaker
maybe go the the counter of you, Joe, a little bit, which which is fine. I mean, if if they drafted a linebacker, i I would love to see this team play more base, especially if they're going to run a, you know, four, three ish system.
00:14:17
Speaker
I think the best teams in the league have linebackers that can run with people and they're they're allowed to play base little bit. And so I'll talk about that in the draft a little bit. If there was one free agent, though, that I could see being both connected to the Packers and a value, Matt Milano, he's still unsigned as of this moment. Coming from Buffalo, Bobby Babich is in Green Bay now, so obviously there's a relationship there. Just a guy, i think, if healthy, right?
00:14:44
Speaker
Big question mark, and I know we don't love that in Green Bay, but like if healthy, he is a really top-notch linebacker. I think he's lost enough of his athleticism that he's not in that elite category anymore. but he's not going to get paid like it anyways. And so I think if he wanted to take like a smaller veteran deal, come in, be, be another leader, that room gets really tight, really fast because they're probably only going to keep five or six. And so suddenly, you know, we're, we're looking at who we can cut for special teams purposes, but I love what Milano does. And I would be big time in on that kind of upside.
00:15:23
Speaker
Just to speak to, like you said, what you know cost and injury concern, he's coming off of the past. So last year he played 12 games. The year before that, only four. The year before that, only five games. So concerns with the injury, but also you would hope that that would drive his cost down. you know He's 32, coming off his second you know his second contract already in the NFL. So you kind of weigh those two. And that's the thing is like they – You know, a lot of people talk about how like, oh, like, you know, what are the pros and cons of being the youngest team in the NFL and stuff?
00:15:59
Speaker
I do think that it's really hard to be a contending team when you just are so young at every position you do. For lack of a better term, you do just need some adults in the room. You need like obviously not necessarily the impact, but like you need those vets like a Charles Woodson or Ryan Pickett who can kind of just say like to second year BJ Raji hey man like this is what the team needs you to do go do it kind of thing and stuff and or just can be trusted to be a little bit of that you know quote unquote coach on the field for for the team and
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, Milano would definitely be partly an investment in that and partly just like he's seen it all, done it all kind of thing. You know, and as as Andrew pointed out, you know, there may be some reservations on can he still do all the things he used to do? But that's where you would hope that the cost wouldn't be as high. And, you know, you get the like not hometown discount, but the familiar with the coach discount kind of situation. So,
00:17:01
Speaker
And that's where I would throw the other one in team Davis Gaither because of him having experience in Gannon defense and, you know, having, I guess, limited success in it. I don't know how well he did in Arizona, but, uh,
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, those are the only two that I could really think of unless they... I still wonder about McDuffie because I think McDuffie stuck around mainly special teams and because Halfley loved him, you know recruited him, had him at Boston College, and then was able to get him again with of in Green Base. I wonder if...
00:17:47
Speaker
he could somehow be a casualty you know a 53 man casualty depending on if they get a draft pick that they like or you know maybe there's a cut that happens so the packers are like hey we like him more than we like isaiah you know something like that so you know maybe we can ship them down to miami for a day three pick or something We love tinfoil Joe when he comes out of his cabin in the woods. So like I was telling. Just teasing. No, no, no. And I get it. I just, like I told Andrew before we started recording, it's not that I don't like McDuffie.
00:18:26
Speaker
It's he's very limited in the aspects that he can do as a starter. If he's just a backup guy, a rotational guy with with a special teams ace, you know, i'm for it But he's not a guy that I want to see in coverage again.
00:18:45
Speaker
you know, i he's more of the downhill type guy that you want him more to the line of scrimmage. But if somebody gets out past him, then, you know, are you going to be able to do anything with it?
00:19:00
Speaker
So if we can get an upgrade over that, and maybe that's Tyron Hopper, maybe that's so-and-so draft pick that the Packers take, Maybe it's in the King Gaithers. I don't know. I just, I, mean for what Isaiah McDuffie is, i would rather have an upgrade than have him back on a, as a starter and and something that you said about, we still don't know what the defense is going to be. i think it was Silverstein said to somebody that asked him for like the hundredth time, have they decided that he said both?
00:19:38
Speaker
So, you know, I understand it's going to be a hybrid thing, but I think because of the Hargrave signing, because of what the Packers have already on roster, they are going to be more of 4-3 defense than they are 3-4. It just, I don't know, it boggles my mind that they would consider going back to a 3-4 in just two years of having 4-3.
00:20:05
Speaker
i think it partly it i think part of the appeal to them is that in the three four even though they don't have quite the right body types for it you have one less linebacker and one less d lineman that your d tackle body type that you're relying on like I said it's they're they don't have the ideal fits for those but I was just gonna say they have more fits for yeah four three than they do and I completely agree with you on that but I can see where they kind of where Ganon especially because you know he's the new head on that side of the ball and all that kind of stuff he's like
00:20:40
Speaker
I can do more things if you allow me, you know, that that whole conversation. But we're not a fly on those walls. I get it. But but with the Hargrave signing, he had more success in the Gannon run 4-3 than he did elsewhere. So if they signed him to be what he was when he was in Philly, 4-3 is going to have to be the way they're going to do it.
00:21:00
Speaker
yeah i would i would say sorry to go no go ahead but i i would say if the packers are going to sign a veteran linebacker it's probably going to happen after the draft and so maybe the draft doesn't fall the way they want to they have one less pick than they were expecting maybe you know the udfas are not exactly what what they're hoping for and then i i think you get like joker breaking the pool stick over his knee and saying all right it's it's mcduffie this new guy we're bringing in one you is making the roster We usually get Star Wars or that references. That's great that he brought it in the Dark Knight one. Yes. And the one thing that I will say, and it kind of ties into what you're saying about McDuffie Joe, is like the what they the one thing they lost in Quay going out the door is they don't have a taller, like bigger linebacker on roster anymore. their you know Edge is their tall guy at 6'2 now. And you know Quay had his faults in coverage, but it did matter that he was 6-4 running up the seam when he was playing, especially when they were playing like a Tampa 2 thing. You had to still throw it over the top of him. And that honestly is what hurts McDuffie the most is like it's it wouldn't be as big of an issue if he was a run-stuffing line of scrimmage player. If he was even 6'2 or 6'3, but because he's like a sawed off six foot guy and he's not very athletic and he's, you know, because you add in that, like his physical limitations compound his athletic limitations, you know, it's the, you know,
00:22:33
Speaker
the the the the comp the the The situation I bring up is like Takiyo Spikes. It was like, oh my God, Takiyo Spikes ran like a 5-0-40 kind of thing. But the Pats made him work because he was like 6'3-2-50. And it's like, you still have to throw over the top of him in the middle of their defense kind of thing. Whereas like McDuffie, it's like you so the the film from the Eagles season opener in 2024 exists. The Thanksgiving Lions game from last season exists where it's just like,
00:23:01
Speaker
oh, there he is, I'm just going to put it two feet over his head, and he's going to jump and do his best, but it's like he might as well not be there kind of thing. Unless they trust Nick Neiman, who's 6'3", 234. Right, or Welch, who is also or And I do think that's why Welch got some looks. I think that he knew the defense better than Hopper, and also they're like, we need that body type out there because part of – closing off middle of the field zones is just having bigger people there and stuff but we've covered where the packers stand what their free agent options are let's get into the draft so as i was saying before andrew the board has fallen horribly for the packers top leads the corners are gone the d tackles are gone there's not even a receiver or a tackle an offensive tackle or a tight end who's worth a damn at 52
00:24:00
Speaker
Who in that wild scenario are you like, if this guy is on the board at 52, Groot, just send the pick in and we'll live with it.
Analyzing Linebacker Prospects
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's interesting. Well, OK, first, let me start here.
00:24:14
Speaker
Linebackers that will not be available, right? Unless there's a gas mask video or something. Excellent reference. Yes. He looks close to the show, obviously.
00:24:26
Speaker
Maybe we just all have the same reference. So Arvel Reese, Ohio State, whether you want to call him off ball linebacker, small edge, whatever, like he's long gone. Sonny Styles is is also from Ohio State. He's going to be 10, top 15 sure. CJ Allen from Georgia probably goes in the first round. And then I think there's a legitimate pathway for any of the other linebackers to fall to Green Bay. And if you're saying this is a situation where the board fell horribly, maybe those linebackers got pushed by you know some of the big run-stuffing nose tackles, the corners, the other positions that that Green Bay would be interested in. so i think you're in a ballpark there's anthony hill jr from texas jacob rodriguez from texas tech jake gall day from cincinnati uh josiah trotter from missouri that that those players according to the nfl mock drop database and mostly fall within my scoring right in the same range and that's kind of that second tier and then there's a big gap And then probably like one guy who might be available in the third, that would be a value. And then everybody else is like day three.
00:25:35
Speaker
So this is a good class in that it has some really top-notch players, but it's like, how do you separate those other players? My favorite one right now is Jacob Rodriguez from Texas tech. I don't know if the Packers would be interested because he's a lighter linebacker. To me, he screamed like, don't,
00:25:54
Speaker
kind of athletic on tape, but like everything else you loved. He was instinctive. His fundamentals were super good. He's a solid tackler. He's pretty solid in coverage. And then he tested out of his mind at the combine. And so now I'm thinking like, well, if they do want to go a little bit more base, a little bit more traditional, they're just like hoppers, not where we want them to be. We already talked about McDuffie, like Jacob Rodriguez would be a guy.
00:26:22
Speaker
i think the Packers front office would like if they can get past the weight, the height, weight kind of combo there. and i think you'd be a fan favorite very, very quickly based on the way he plays.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the popular one with with a lot of them. you know i I talk with J.J. Leahy and and Jake Schvink and those guys, and that's the that's the very popular pick amongst the the circle that we run in.
00:26:51
Speaker
uh you know i agree with him the only thing that i had for a knock as i throw my phone around here was that i thought his hips were a little stiff when it came to the coverage that he could get a little stiff with that but otherwise yeah you know athletic uh he seemed to track the ball well solid tackler but i did say he's with the way this class is rounding out he's probably going to be gone by the time the packers pick unless This is where the weird part happens because we all remember what happened with Edge Cooper. You know, Edge Cooper was supposed to be the guy that was taken in the first round. We're supposed to, you know, he wasn't even supposed to make it into the second round when the Packers picked again.
00:27:32
Speaker
they They still were able to trade down and end up with Edge Cooper. So we all know how that happens. I don't know how much teams are putting a premium on linebackers unless they're a surefire, you know, like a Sonny Stiles or something like that, or an Avril Reese, you know, just unless they're surefire like that. So if he's there, i would have to say it would be really hard for Goody not to select him.
00:28:03
Speaker
It would have to really depend on what the corner and the the DT board looks like, and but it would be a long, long look at him. You mentioned Golday out of Cincinnati, and I tried to watch some of him, and it was rough for me.
00:28:25
Speaker
He looked very robotic. And not in like the good robotic way, but the real like, he was stiff. He was, you know, very, excuse me, calculated in his movements.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I think that hindered him in some way with his play because if like I said, it just seemed like, uh arnold out there as as terminator and you know just was rough moving if he could somehow figure out how to loosen up then i think the sky is the limit for him so i i mean like i said if he can loosen that up uh let's see yeah super stiff even when he was standing in his stance he's got an idea of what to do in coverage but his stiffness limits him and sometimes he can take some bad angles when when he's tackling so you know sometimes the misses happen but I wonder again if that has to do with his stiffness so if they took him they see something in him for sure you know whatever I'll be with it but he would not be my ideal
00:29:42
Speaker
we're talking round two probably if out of that group i would be more apt for josiah trotter he kind of reminds me of of chris mcclellan that we talked about with the defensive tackle position that he's a jack of all trades but a master of none where he's going to be good at almost everything he does but he's not going to be that el elite guy and that could be honestly something the packers could use
00:30:12
Speaker
in that he can he can cover but he's not the greatest at coverage he can rush but he's not the greatest at rushing but he's pretty good at it and and that could be something that would give you know like mike was talking earlier about uh edge you know that that could be something that frees edge up to do what edge does and also give you an extra guy out there that can run the defense I'm going to totally honest with you. Linebacker is one of my least favorite positions. Oh, yeah. freeze
00:30:46
Speaker
Oh, I can see him. Okay. Oh, I see him, but I think he's frozen. Oh, no, can hear him. I can hear him, too. He's moving. Now he's gone. There we go. He was frozen on the screen for a minute.
00:30:59
Speaker
So I could hear everything you guys said. I'm going to be totally honest with everyone. Linebacker is one of the positions I hate to scout most because I feel like...
College vs NFL Linebacker Responsibilities
00:31:10
Speaker
It's one of those positions where because of how college offenses operate, how wide the hashes are on college fields, how prevalent spread is in the college game, linebackers don't do a lot of pro linebacker things in college anymore. There's not a lot of block take-ons. There's not a lot, you know, the angles are all different in run support, all those kind of things. and
00:31:34
Speaker
And so there's a lot of like, how good is the tape, how good is this, how good is that. There's some parts to Rodriguez's game where some of his angles, I'm kind of like, I can't tell if he didn't read it quite right or if it's because of his responsibilities, you know, from a pre-snap standpoint to a post-snap transition, all that kind of stuff. You know there's points where it almost seems like he can be a step late to the ball, but usually when he sees it right, he plays it out really well, makes a tackle.
00:32:07
Speaker
My only concern for him is he's a little bit T-Rex armed. And you unlike you know some another former Big 12 linebacker with shorter arms, Ty Summers, Rodriguez at least remembers that he has arms attached to both his shoulders and he will wrap them when he tries to tackle people. The the the intriguing comp, and he doesn't play exactly the the same way, but the way that he measures out both athletically and physically is a lot very similar to Levante David, who came into the NFL as a lighter, undersized linebacker. Levante's arms are like a half inch longer. But in terms of like...
00:32:46
Speaker
The upside you'd hope to get out of a linebacker like Rodriguez, and I could see it playing out that way for him in the NFL, is to have like a long Levante David type career where, you know, he the the times that he shows the the plus instincts, the plus play, read field vision and reading. Those do play up.
00:33:08
Speaker
And that's the thing is it's like linebacker is hard, whether at the college or NFL level, because it's like the times that half the time you're uncovered it's like did my d lineman really eat blocks up so well that i'm truly free to the ball or is this a trick play kind of thing and i i'm you know it's the old like looney tunes or tom and jerry cartoons where it like fades the person fades whatever character out and it's just a jackass kind of thing and stuff like that. And it's like, oh, no, I've gone the wrong way. But I say all that to say, like, if you get the best version of what Rodriguez shows on tape, that's a really good eight to ten year player in the NFL. Like I said, if it all works out. And that's where I do think that, you know, his best.
00:33:58
Speaker
upside comes from like i said it doesn't take much squinting of the eyes to say like i can see how that plays out well especially because There's parts of me that's still a little old schoolish where I still do want to have some 240 pound linebackers in my lineup who you know are a little more of the quote unquote body type that you're used to and stuff. But at the same time, the it's so much more of a space game. Your linebackers have to be able to run sideline to sideline. They have to be able to get back in zone coverage.
00:34:31
Speaker
And Rodriguez does show the ability to do all of that at different points of his game film. And so it'll be really interesting. And like I said, for them to take a linebacker in round two, given the Zaire trade, given their needs at cornerback, defensive tackle, that you know, defensive tackle has been tentpolled a little bit with the Hargrave signing, but Hargrave is 32.
00:34:55
Speaker
33. 33. Yeah. So you know that's a short term and they do need to we they new to do you need to add talent at the position, you know especially given that what could be going out the door and free agency, whereas linebacker You know, Edge is still young. Zaire is under contract for a couple years. Hopper is under contract for a couple years and has shown some upside in the, like, handful of snaps he's gotten over the the few games he got, like, real defensive snaps in.
00:35:25
Speaker
But it'll be really interesting to see, like... yeah I know some people say, like, you don't read too much into this or that with draft picks, but if they take Rodriguez or any of these guys you listed, Andrew, in the second round, it says a lot to what they think of... honestly, what they think of Zaire's long-term prognosis, what they think of where Hopper is in his progression, and how you know the whole, are they treating this position with a little more TLC, or is it still on the back burner kind of thing and stuff. So yeah, I'm really curious to see what direction they go.
00:36:03
Speaker
I agree with you, though, Joe, what you said about Trotter is like he's just a good football player. i I could see him being a little a pretty decent blitzer at the pro level, but I think he is just on film like he's a little bit smaller Nile Diggs kind of player where it's like it's not a name that you'll recognize if you're not a fan of the team who drafts him. but it's like, oh, he's got free agency. You know, he's got free agency interest when it's four years down the road. Yeah, because he's a really good solid player kind of thing and stuff. So I could see that being Trotter's upside too.
00:36:41
Speaker
And with Golday, it is sort of like the Quay-Schwessinger mold a little bit where it's like, that guy looks like how you want your Mike linebacker to look. There's a little bit of I hope he's going to go in the right direction with him. But when it connects on tape, it does look really good because the height, weight, speed, physical package, it plays up when he does, you know, and I'm going to say that a lot in this episode, you know, when he sees it correctly. But like I said, that's why it's a hard position to play, especially in college, because the hash marks, like I said, are so wide. Teams line up in weird, wide,
00:37:23
Speaker
formations to get their playmakers out in space. And it's like your linebacker has to cover, especially if they're in you know and some kind of outside linebacker, you're responsible from like either outside shoulder of the guard or tackle to the slot receiver who could be like,
00:37:38
Speaker
out 10 yards from the linus from the inline line of scrimmage players so it's like you have this cone of responsibility that you can barely see from your peripherals and stuff and so it's like yeah i understand if your keys are a little off when you're trying to read it in the heat of the moment and stuff and like i said that's why i do hate scouting the position because it's like okay like yeah it it comes down to like the isaiah simmons thing at clemson where it's like what's his face the coaches, the Venables, just funneled everything to Simmons. Like, Simmons didn't have to read anything because it was like, everything is getting funneled to Simmons and he's just gonna admit we're just going to trust him to make every tackle or every play kind of thing. And it's like, okay, but how true is that going to be for an NFL player? Whereas, like, you have, like, a Fred Warner where it's like, okay, he looks solid at Utah State, but it's Mountain West, you know, and then it turns out, like, oh, like,
00:38:35
Speaker
this dude is reading and calling everything out pre-snap and he makes all the adjustments he makes and he makes all the the pre-snap adjustments gets everyone set and then on top of it is super on top of his own shit once the place starts and all so that's the part where it's really hard to gauge when you watch these positions in a college game versus like trying to project it into an nfl's defensive scheme Now, Andrew, to get back, you mentioned there's one guy that you're like, that's the last guy in round three that you're like, I'm
Late-Round Value Picks & Development
00:39:07
Speaker
interested. and then it's a gap to day three.
00:39:11
Speaker
Please drop that name now. I'm just saying, like, obviously the NFL does is not beholden to mock drafts. But i will say like when you when you look at and and the reason why I like NFL mock draft database is because it aggregates everything and you can kind of see windows of where people expect players to go.
00:39:31
Speaker
And the one player in that third round range, it's Pitts Kyle Lewis. I am not a fan personally, but like I can see the upside there. Right. Like, I think the movement skills are really, really intriguing. He just seems like a guy to me that's going to be more of a specialist in the NFL than like a full time player. But, you know, to each their own.
00:39:52
Speaker
especially given his size. He measured in at six foot 220. So he's going to be light. He's going to be a little bit more compact. I kind of agree. i kept seeing like the NFL or NFL.com has him as like what? One, two, three, four, five. They're sixth ranked linebacker. and I was like, okay. So I watched him and you know he is athletic there's no doubt about it speed and quickness look good but his tackling looked iffy he was small you know raw athleticism so maybe if somebody can get him in there and you know teach him what he's actually supposed to be doing he could be a really good linebacker but yeah i i had question marks all over him too
00:40:47
Speaker
There's an element that where would feel kind of like the, it would kind of feel like the hopper pick all over again, especially if they took him in round three where it's like, okay, like which position are you drafting him for? And you know are we going to just be in the 220s to 230s at the second level of the defense? So yeah. And I was going to mention that it's going to be kind of hard to find guys that you know as mafia would put it you know uh fit the packer mold and and fit these measurements because a lot of these guys are light there's I was going through a lot of them and not a lot of them way over 230. there are some but a lot of them they top out at 230.
00:41:32
Speaker
and in college they were playing underweight so like one that i watched and like i said nfl.com has them listed at mid-tier taurine york out of a and m texas a and m you know he has some injury concerns so there's uh hard to find good tape on him but he's 5 11 226. uh and then there oh and then there was Oh, let me look at it real quick because I mentioned him in our group chat and I completely forgot his name off the top of my head.
00:42:08
Speaker
That Moffy said he was small and I said, well, this is what he measures and that's not too bad. Scooby Williams. Scooby Williams was another one that I thought looked really good.
00:42:20
Speaker
but you know he according to mafia he was only playing at like two in the low 220s in college well he measured in at 231 at the combine so you know he was able to keep his athleticism at 231 but is he going to be able to bulk up to the 240 range that the packers usually look for so i'm wondering if they're going to have to start changing some of their measurement requirements just to fit some of these guys in there really interesting to keep an eye on because yeah like you said the 245 pound 250 pound college linebackers they just don't really exist anymore because most of those guys are playing edge of end now you know and like even reese and
00:43:08
Speaker
Even Reese isn't like that big, but you know he's one of the bigger linebacker prospects. And they're already like, oh, let's just get him on the end the the end of the line of scrimmage kind of thing. So as we move along, so we're into day three now, which I think is the more realistic range of where if Green Bay adds to the room, they would. Because like I said, more pressing needs at other positions and how this draft is loaded.
00:43:31
Speaker
Andrew, what are some names that you've got your eye on at this position? So I mentioned three, one that is completely impossible, not happening for Green Bay, but I need to pigeonhole him in here anyways. So the first player that I'll mention for day three that I like a lot, Alabama's Deontay Lawson. He again, little light, but like I just love like to me, he's super steady and there. There were points where like as an underclassman, maybe even coming into this year, people had really high expectations for him. He's just not that player athletically, but like i love his assignment. Sure. i like the angles he takes like he's going to be a really solid player. And so, you know, is is there always the potential that somebody comes in their instincts are so good that they're like the next Henry Totoa? Sure.
00:44:22
Speaker
But like, that's not what my expectation is. I think this is a guy who can play core special teams. He's he's the guy who's going really assignment. Sure. He gives you four years of like that solid play and then you can you can figure out where you're going from there. The player who the Packers absolutely aren't touching, but I just can't quit him.
00:44:40
Speaker
Speaking of high draft expectations, this is Harold Perkins Jr. from LSU. He measured in even lower than I could have possibly imagined. Let me see. 223. And like I knew he was too small, but that's crazy. I just, I don't know.
00:44:56
Speaker
I feel like... He did play special teams at LSU. He was pretty good at special teams. I think you draft him in that like fifth, sixth round range and just your expectations are this guy is only a special teamer and you get him to dedicate himself to that craft. And I think he becomes an elite level special teams player.
00:45:17
Speaker
If there's packages that you can fit him in on and like the way that they went with like the wild card that I wasn't expecting of Colin Oliver last year. Like maybe there is a special package where you can get him and you're just saying, hey,
00:45:35
Speaker
race around the edge to the quarterback try to generate as much outside pressure and force them back inside and maybe that's the play where you have micah doing a spin move back to the inside and you you can you can generate some stuff anyways i don't know not gonna happen but well they did have the meeting with him though so i mean there is depending on where he's sitting at there is the possibility never say never never dash this boy's dreams the The last one that I'm to mention, I try to be really cognizant of not jersey scouting. and And so when they say that, they mean the front of the jersey, typically. But in this case, it's the back of the jersey, too. And that's Lander Barton from Utah. Like, sign me up for another Barton linebacker in the NFL. But, like...
00:46:20
Speaker
you talked about players that are too late he measured at six five two thirty three he's a big dude he's super solid on tape nothing spectacular he's not going to be a really elite pass coverage guy but i think like you get him in into zone and he'll be where he needs to be and he's long enough to disrupt some passing angles but i think he's an early down player again i think you can probably get him to buy in on special teams and so Those are the kind of guys on day three, like either give me one elite skill, like quickness and bend in Perkins, or just give me the most solid college player that you can.
00:47:01
Speaker
I agree. Like, that's where I've always, especially you get into that, like, round six, round seven range, that's why, like, I'll always, oh, shucks, what's his name? I can't, the, like, one from Southeast Missouri State, the defensive end was Kendall Donerson. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm, like, or the Jeff, like, Donerson, Jeff Janis, MVS, EQ, like, they're not all going to work out, but I'm, like,
00:47:29
Speaker
just give me the the highest the ras athletes you can get at some point and just see if your coaching can teach them how to football at some point and i'm not a perkins believer because like i said it's not just that he's so small but like he's had some massive injury issues over his college career like he's had he tore his ACL. He had another knee thing and stuff. that Still looks explosive as hell. Even when he, you know, when he's come back from the previous injuries, it is like, I joked that we already have a Colin Oliver at home when it comes him. But the, the, avenue for Perkins to get on this roster, like you said, Andrew, is he's just sitting there in round six.
00:48:12
Speaker
And Goot has shown him every year as a GM that he cannot stop scratching his itch for a nickel linebacker body type. it like He's traded up for Burks. He's taken a couple safeties who kind of fit that mold. Most recently, Oladapo. Hopper kind of fits that mold where you know he's not the athlete though that Berks or Oladapo are, but it's like you know this 220-ish linebacker who can sit in like hook zones and stuff.
00:48:43
Speaker
and yeah and like there is that and even oliver kind of that i know he was drafted as more of an end but it's like is he a sam with like shorter arms kind of thing and stuff and like yeah i i joke but at the same time it's one of those where i'm like it At some point, Goot may do the the value was too good to pass him up here kind of thing and stuff. So yeah, as much as I'm like, I'll believe it when I see it happen, I never thought in a million years they would take Oliver. like that i I watched his film. He was super fun on film. And like obviously, now that we took him, I'm like, fuck it. Let's see what he can do. But like there was a there is no way they're going to take this like six foot one
00:49:29
Speaker
240 end with 30 and a half inch arms and they did so like you know it shows that when you're late enough in the draft and you know just other positions of need aren't there kind of thing they will just say like okay this guy like we had a really high rating and he somehow fell down the board kind of thing and that like i said that's how you get a perkins on you know i i do think that some team is going to be like in round three or four they're going be like like the highs on the film are too good. Let's just take him here. And I don't think there's any way where the Packers would take him there. But if he's there late on day three, it's kind of one of those, oh, he's still there. Like, you know, when like it's ticking through, if you're watching on NFL Network and it's DJ's best remaining available, or if you're on ESPN and it's Mel's best available. And it's like, there's a couple names that have just been there for like four rounds kind of thing. It's like, oh, maybe maybe it's time to just take one of those at this point.
00:50:29
Speaker
any players that you just like you know i know you kind of pointed at lewis as one of them but any other players that you're like you'll just kind of like close your eyes grit your teeth if the packers take and be like i really don't know about that one but he's a packer now so i gotta get behind it kind of pick but Lewis is is the obvious one for me just because of where his expected draft ranges and where I view him as everybody else because like it's basically just a list of day three players and so I'm like who do I prefer if it's lander Barton I'm going to be really excited about it if it's anybody else I'm going kind of be like oh okay.
00:51:08
Speaker
I can see that it's solid. but yeah, like weirdly, i think most of the players fall relatively chalk on my board this year at linebacker, with a few variations, but yeah, Kyle Lewis is probably the one where and not only would I be like surprised from like the actual player itself. for me, I just don't see that role necessarily being something that the Packers have typically like prioritized.
00:51:37
Speaker
Joe, any names that you had that stand out that we didn't go over? Oh, I got a bunch of them. We got a whole list here. So I'm going to throw three of them out right now that because you mentioned Raz and these guys have high
Evaluating Prospects' Athleticism
00:51:52
Speaker
Raz scores. So I'm going to go the opposite of Andrew when it comes to the Alabama backers. I like Justin Jefferson, and I think it would be really neat to have Justin Jefferson, the linebacker.
00:52:04
Speaker
lay out Justin Jefferson, the wide receiver of the Minnesota Vikings. Now, obviously with Justin Jefferson comes some drawbacks. He's, he's six foot two 23.
00:52:15
Speaker
So he's really light. He's really compact. Uh, you know, his RAS score is in an unofficial 8.40. So he didn't do the three cone and, and those, those tests, but ran a four or five, seven.
00:52:32
Speaker
you can see it on film that he's got everything that you want in a linebacker but he struggles with it because of his size you know he he will take a hit he will give a hit but if the guy's bigger than him you know it just it's it's kind of like if if kiwano would come over and try hitting me it'd be like swatting a fly you know so it just although i would love him as as kind of a mcduffie replacement per se because he would give you what mcduffie could with a little bit better athletic more athleticism than than what mcduffie could do
00:53:18
Speaker
The other one that I've got is one that Jake and JJ kind of brought up a couple of weeks ago on their D on the derailed podcast, uh, out of TCU, Caleb, Caleb Earl, Earlums, or, you know, i really liked what I saw out of him. His Raz is a nine, seven, two,
00:53:40
Speaker
So, you know, he he's got the the athletic score. of Good size. He tracked the ball well. His coverage looked good. when he plays full speed, he has great speed, but he hesitated a little bit too often. So I think he overthinks things.
00:53:59
Speaker
You know, his tackling was pretty good. i think he could be another one kind of like I mentioned with a Trotter that he's more of a jack of all trades, master of none type deal where he's going to be the guy that can do a little bit of everything.
00:54:19
Speaker
again, he's probably fits the system a little bit better. Cause he's sick. He measured in six to two 34. His shuttle was pretty crappy and he didn't run the three cone, but he had a four, four, seven 40 yard dash.
00:54:34
Speaker
so that helped him, but I think my favorite, and I kind of started falling in love with this guy. The more and more I watched him out of BYU is Jack Kelly You know, he really popped on on the film.
00:54:50
Speaker
oh More quick than fast. Coverage looked good. Tracks well. He can be a little bit lacking when it comes to tackling, meaning he he can tend to miss a tackle or two because he's put himself out of position.
00:55:08
Speaker
but he would probably be the type of guy that kuwano was kind of talking about where you know he's got a 981 ras score give me the high ras score throw him out there see what he can do you know take a swing fling the shit at the wall hope it sticks type deal uh so i really liked him there was one other that oh red murdoch out of buffalo Tackling machine, almost 200 tackles every year. Decent quickness, good size.
00:55:42
Speaker
I'm trying to think what he measured in at. I think it was like 6'3", 240 or something like that.
00:55:50
Speaker
Decent pass rush, coverage looks good. He had good, he tracked the ball well. The question mark I had is his speed. He wasn't at the combine, so I couldn't see what his straight line speed was. But I do wonder if maybe he does lack a little bit in the speed. So I think Mafi said the pro day is the 31st of March. So if he runs, that would be the thing that I would look more for at his pro day.
00:56:18
Speaker
But those are a few. course, there's an Iowa guy that I can talk about, but I'll let Mike talk about his Michigan guy before I do my Iowa guy. But that's what I got right now. If we could come away with one of those guys, I think i think I'd be pretty happy.
00:56:35
Speaker
OK, so since Joe tossed the softball up, I got to ask you, Murtig. I have my position on this. Jaishan Barham, do you have him as more of an off-ball linebacker or as an edge in the NFL?
00:56:50
Speaker
I have him as a linebacker right now. I mean, I know like there's some multiplicity to what he can do. But I, to me, like i saw more of a skillset for like that physical off ball linebacker, pass coverage would be a concern there, but I, I, you know, I could see I don't know if the Packers want to get into more hybrid stuff.
Hybrid Roles & Unique Skill Sets
00:57:14
Speaker
with the new defense. But yeah, I could see bart Barham sorry but really kind of providing both skill sets. But yeah, I would i would start him as a bigger off ball.
00:57:27
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think his future is on the edge. I i just think that some of the stuff, the the down to down eye discipline is a little concerning for me. And that's as someone who is like rooting for him the past two seasons.
00:57:42
Speaker
You know, when again, it's my beaten my dead horse beaten to a pulp line of when he sees what you're expecting him to see, it looks so good because he's so explosive. When he triggers downhill, he comes with, with you know, it's just a load of bricks that comes through the line of scrimmage. He hits hard, clean form tackles when he reads it well. He had the he had the the play in the opener this season where he sacks, you know,
00:58:10
Speaker
think it was Fresno State's quarterback, and he got thrown out of the game for targeting. And it's like, it's not his fault that he's six foot two and a half and the quarterback is listed at 5'11", and I think he's like five eight And like it's one of those, like, the targeting rule is broken. It's not his fault he's half a foot taller than the guy he's tackling kind of thing. But, you know, just it just shows, like, how much...
00:58:35
Speaker
like how much power he brings when he gets to the ball carrier. But like you said, there's some moments where it's kind of like, how did you not see that they're running a sweep at you and you just just dive inside kind of thing that you dive inside the B gap and it's like, oh, like.
00:58:52
Speaker
Yeah, like I joked that you want him on the edge and you need an overhang defender behind him because it's like he's going to make you a lot of plays, but the few that he doesn't get quite right, it's like, oh, that's 20 yards down the field, they' like very easy and wide open for... So that's that's my concern and why I have his future at edge. But if, like I said, you know, if it turns out that for whatever reason, you know, him playing like Sam at the NFL level limits, you know, his read and react necessities.
00:59:24
Speaker
I'm like, okay, fine. Like, I'll take that because what he can do as a third down player is really impressive, whether it's an at the snap blitzer or as a delayed blitzer, he just ignites through the it's really edge like and even Quay like, you know, Quay gets a lot of like, crap for like what he did and didn't do as like a a read and react zone defender and stuff. But both edge and queer are in the top like five percent as like a gap trigger blitzers kind of thing and barham is you know i know they played him on the michigan played him on the edge a lot this past season but really in 2024 when he was allowed to blitz up the a gap he really screwed up a lot of blocking schemes for the wolverines defense and
01:00:09
Speaker
It would be one where, like, if they got him, like, round three or somehow he slipped to four, I'd be really excited about that. Just because, like i said, at some point you've got to get together, and we've kind of alluded to it. It's like, what can you do to affect the passing game? And I know that we'd be, like, really loaded up on these kind of sawed off from, like, an arm-length standpoint of, like...
01:00:30
Speaker
Edgerusher types in terms of like you have Parsons already, you have Oliver, you have and then you would be adding Barham to that mix. But it's like one of these guys is good. You know, Parsons is going to draw all the attention and you just need one of an Oliver or Barham to like, oh,
01:00:47
Speaker
I've got someone who's only got half their attention on me, and I don't even forget half attacking half the man. I'm attacking like quarter of a man. It's like, yeah, I can chase down basically any quarterback in the league.
01:01:00
Speaker
And both of you know Oliver for his size and Barham for anyone's size lights up quarterbacks like nothing else. So that's where, like, like I said, I,
01:01:11
Speaker
he's okay in coverage if you're like okay you see that tight end go cover him kind of thing but it's like if he has to like compound read a like a like a mesh route it's like like he's gonna be the guy that gets meshed a lot if he's dropping into zone coverage but yeah on like a Barham, you go get that guy, like he has the athleticism to match in coverage or to just rip by someone as a blitzer. So that's where his upside is. And like I said, I have my doubts in how he plays as an off-ball guy in the NFL, but just what he can do rushing the passer, he's going to have –
01:01:49
Speaker
upside and just playmaking ability that I think is going to take him out of the range of where Green Bay would be comfortable drafting him but if he slipped into a range like I said in that round three round four and you can get him like where they got Sorrell last year that'd be a really good value pick for the Packers just to kind of throw this out here uh from Barham according to the Raz website, if you put him in as a linebacker, he's a nine, four, two unofficial. And two of his Raz comps are clay Matthews and Quay Walker.
01:02:23
Speaker
So that that would be interesting. But that wasn't even the guy that I was talking about. There's another Michigan one that was giving you to, in Jimmy Rolder. Rolder is like roder is like a lighter version of Rodriguez, where it's like just your throwback, really heady linebacker.
01:02:43
Speaker
I didn't measure as well as I didn't think he was going to measure like super well in terms of his arm length or anything like that. But I didn't think he was a sub 31 inch guy. But like, actually half an inch, he can stretch out a little bit. it's what you do with it. But no, like he really, especially because they had some like, kind of funky stuff happened with their defensive structure this season.
01:03:06
Speaker
yeah They had a fudge told the guy who transferred him from Nebraska. He just medically retired basically too many concussion issues, concussion issues, just retired like with five games to go in the season. And Broder really did step up and was the like the backbone to the defense. hey, like for Packers fans, he's from Wisconsin kind of thing. You know, like there's that there's that tie and stuff. But, you know, would just be like, I i half jokingly, half seriously say he's the like, to go back a few years, he's the Jake Ryan, Blake Martinez pick. You like take this guy in the fifth round and it's not going to like blow anyone's socks off. But then you're going
01:03:49
Speaker
oh, this guy is starting and he's making like 10 tackles a game and, you know, he's going to get beat by the more athletic players, but he's like assignment sure. He can blitz every once in a while and he can catch the ball when it's thrown to him.
01:04:02
Speaker
Cool. like yeah Like one of those, like like I said, like with Rodriguez where it's like I wouldn't be surprised if he has like a six to ten year career in the NFL just because it's like, is he – excellent anything not necessarily but he's good he does a lot of things really well and just outside of the athleticism doesn't have huge holes in his game so you know kind of scheme dependent but a player that i think gannon could find useful
01:04:29
Speaker
and you know really looking at his i didn't watch him because i figured i would give kiwano all the props in the world to be able to talk about his guy but outside of having a 30 and a half inch arm length his shuttle and three cone are amazing four two six uh shuttle and then he had a seven flat for a three cone so i mean yeah he he really fits that packers uh mold when it comes to those agility scores he did not run a 40 so i couldn't tell you what his uh straight line speed is but i mean 36 inch vert 911 broad 426 shuttle 7 flat 3 cone at 6 foot 2 238 you know that that's pretty good for for somebody like that you know of that size
01:05:19
Speaker
And Mafi did ask me why I have no idea why he didn't run the 40. You don't normally see guys skip on the 40 and do everything else. Like it's it's kind of odd. And i unless he's nursing something. But then again, like if you're nursing an injury, I don't see you doing the explosives or agility testing. So I can't speak to that.
01:05:36
Speaker
If yeah he's nursing something and he still ran a 7 flat 3 and a 428 or a 426 shuttle, what the hell is he going to run as 40? Yeah. like Like I said, I don't think he was going to blow your socks off, but I thought he was going to run like a 4-7, 4-7-5, which is fine for like a Mike linebacker type and stuff. the The shuttle and the cones show on film because he's really good at like when he when he reads the puller correctly, he's good at dipping under the block and like redirecting into the gap to make a tackle behind the puller and stuff. So you see that action on film.
01:06:12
Speaker
Like I said, the the lack of leg shows up because if he wins the strike point, he can take on a blocker. But if the lineman gets his hands on him, he's going to try to re-anchor in the hole. But if he can't do that, he kind of just will get washed because he can't get off the block kind of thing and stuff. so and And like i said, that's one of those that's just how linebackers are built these days. I'm sort of a dinosaur in the like. I want to see a 6'3", 250 guy who can take, you know, like a Jeremiah Trotter who can stun a pulling guard kind of thing. Those guys just don't really exist anymore. Like you like we've said, they're all playing edge now at this point in their careers. But, you know, like I said, Rolder, it's going to be one of those, like, doesn't get announced. it'll be It'll just come across the ticker in, like, round five, round six kind of picks. But, know,
01:06:58
Speaker
as long as his health holds up, you know, he'll have a solid, decently-length career kind of thing. So, yeah, like, he'll have, like, a Milano career. Like, that's kind of where I put his, his you know, what kind of staying power in the NFL I think he'll have.
01:07:13
Speaker
He'll be the guy that the Orangutan will announce for the pig this year.
01:07:19
Speaker
so i just throw out the iowa guy real quick he's not gonna be your top of the line type uh because the real knock on him is he's only had one year starting experience uh most the other time it was pure special teams if he got in the game at all uh razz score is pretty pretty amazing for an unofficial for what you know for what he is he's a little bit small 612 31
01:07:49
Speaker
4, 5, 6, 40, 40 vert, 1003 broad. So he really did that, but he just didn't do any of the agility testing. On film, he's the tryhard. You know, I've said this a lot about the guys that come out of Iowa. They're blue-collar guys. They're, you know, they're lunch pail. They're going to come in, do their job.
01:08:14
Speaker
go over and above what they need to do. i think he's going to go the route of a Neiman or a Welch and and be that special teams contributor.
01:08:25
Speaker
And if he happens to, you know, push for a playing time, then he does. But
01:08:35
Speaker
he's got the athletic ability, but he just doesn't have the experience.
01:08:41
Speaker
All right. Any other udfa level guys that you've got your eye on Andrew, that you kind of have earmarked? No, I mean, i you know now I'm intrigued because there's a couple guys that you each mentioned that are catching my attention. Jimmy Rolder from Illinois, not Wisconsin. So that's a two-point deduction right there. But... no, I mean, i think that's exactly what you're looking for, right? Like as a UDFA, who's a really good athlete or who brings special teams value or, or who may have a little bit of sticking power, like a really strong trait. I mean, years ago i was like over the moon. i think I was still writing for this might've been like one of my first years at Packers talk, but I was like, oh my gosh, there's this like Uber athletic guy from Miami, the Packers signed as a UDFA. He has no idea what he's doing because he was a wide receiver and now he's a corner and he is now my favorite player ever. And like that Sam Shields, for those of you who don't know, but like.
01:09:45
Speaker
that guy was a huge part of them winning a Super Bowl. Right. So like when when I'm looking at UDF is I like the really solid guys who may be stuck around in college for five or six years and like they're just steady. i think that works well as a potential special teamer because, you know, probably one of of Welch or Neiman makes the team. But like, do you have a guy that can go on the practice squad and fill in if if you need to? and then the other thing is like who's somebody who's just a really really good athlete but maybe doesn't understand how to play football yet and like let's the the roster looks pretty full at this point for green bay think there's maybe an opportunity for a udfa maybe but probably not with their draft picks so i'm looking for guys that can provide like some practice squad value and then later in the year are like heady enough to come up and provide something so Yeah, those are those are two really interesting names that I have not checked out yet.
Listeners' Opinions on Past Players
01:10:41
Speaker
Yeah, Jermon Johnson was that guy last year where it's like he has like a nine-something RAS card. But he had no idea how to do with anything with it. Yeah. And it's just – you know, we were we laughing with – I was laughing with Mafia. He's like, you know, people are like, oh, Jermon Johnson. He's like, I like the other linebacker better, the other Kentucky guy better kind of thing. I think the other Kentucky guy is the better player kind of thing. But, you know, it's it's the like – it's the whole like – Do you want Brooks Reed or do you want the guy the Packers draft? out Oh, don't bring that up.
01:11:16
Speaker
I was an Elmore guy. was, so shut up. but yeah it like it it especially at linebacker it just goes to show like it's so hard to tell who of the players like truly understands what they're looking at and who is like being given the like the the drawn out map to map to the the the gold pot at the end of the rainbow kind of thing. Because it's like, you can just, you know, it's hard to explain to like people who don't watch the player, like watch scouting film a lot. But it's so, once you see guys in an NFL setting, because of how much more condensed the NFL game is from like a formation and play structure standpoint as it is to college, it it becomes so clear quickly, like,
01:12:06
Speaker
oh, that guy understands, like, follow the pulling guard or the the the fullback kid stuff. And it's like, or or you get the, I got 21 guys going right and I got one guy going left kind of thing. it's one of those where it's really hard to tell from like just an initial like scouting point of view. That's where the interviews and all that kind of stuff does come into play.
01:12:33
Speaker
But yeah, like, it's one of those projection positions where it's hard to tell who's gonna pick it up and who does it edge is one of those like i said i my concern was i was like the highlights look really good but i don't know if it's you know it's hard to project does he have it between the ears or is it sort of an asaiah simmons situation where it's like it doesn't matter what we tell you the scheme is we just need you to go screw up the play kind of thing and like yeah I think that, you know, I think that that question to Edge's game is what honestly Packers fans should be thankful for, because I don't know if he is a Packer, if that wasn't a concern for him. So it's one of those where, you know, as much as anyone says like this scouting department, that scouting department, there's no surefire answer because
01:13:22
Speaker
none of these players are sure things. There's a lot of like projection, uncertainty of like what a defensive scheme is and how much they understand what they're doing.
01:13:32
Speaker
And sometimes you just got to get a little lucky and have the guys who are a little bit more savants than they let on, you know. But Andrew, you got any more names just that popped into your head off the top or you kind of said on this one?
01:13:48
Speaker
No, i I mean, like just throw in a name against the wall. There's Nnamdi Obiezer out of TCU. Like he's he's a really athletic guy. Like.
01:13:59
Speaker
probably more of like a straight line speed. He's got okay, uh, agility, agility testing numbers, but like, that's a guy where I think like, you know, you draft or you, you probably sign them as a UDFA and then you hope like this is a guy who can win a job as a special team or maybe kick Welsh and or Neiman off the roster. And then don't put it you that way.
01:14:23
Speaker
My Hawkeye guys. i can't I can't say kick them off. No allegiance to Iowa. they They can be on the practice squad if they want. So a player it probably is a practice squad level player, but has the athleticism to be an NFL player, and then you just hope that he can figure out the... like reading the game part of it like that gives you a really nice floor and then you have some ceiling to go along with it which is like i said exactly what i'm looking for in edfa right on well before we completely
01:15:00
Speaker
oh get out of here. We did have a couple of things come across social media. So first one is from a Brian. mit ay My maffy first tell Murtig I miss him and that I love him. Also, he needs to come back to Twitter and break more coaching news.
01:15:21
Speaker
now Hard pass. and then i just i just want to say that the the guy i was wrong about was a candidate again and uh i i said i'm not i'm not touching this
01:15:38
Speaker
and then the other one is goose underscore m n if you could bring any packer from the past 15 years and put them on today's roster when they are in their prime why would it be jeff janice
01:15:53
Speaker
Special teams matter! this this is This is now unprovable, but I did accurately predict the Packers that year were going to draft both Jeff Janis and Jared Aberderis. So I am taking credit for for that.
01:16:10
Speaker
i had the I believe it was the wrong fourth-round pick for Aberderis, but I was pretty close to it. if past 15 years, does that own it? They get the only gets me back to 2011. So that, yeah. Oh, Nick Collins. Uh, like technically started the 2011 season. So I, that's, that's always my answer. Like that is the what if of all what ifs. Cause I think if Nick Collins stays healthy, the Packers probably win at least one more Superbowl. Uh, I, I think he was granted. They just choked against the giants, but, I really thought that he was the biggest difference.
01:16:47
Speaker
I can't think, you know, like i I would go back to probably like prime David Bakhtiari, right? Like, because you can always use left tackle. Yeah. That's what I was trying to think of. Either that or Bulaga for the right side. And you could kick Tom either left side or at center where he supposedly is a all pro future center.
01:17:08
Speaker
BJ Raji would look pretty good in this particular team. Yeah. And if we're cheating a little bit, he wasn't in his prime, but if it's like he was on the team 15 years ago... It just says in his prime. So Charles Woodson. sold there yeah There you go. But yeah, like if there's a lot of really good options. would go And this one just popped in my head because if they're in their prime, Nick Barnett.
01:17:38
Speaker
and that fits with what we're talking about now because we could have barnett and and uh i think he was still there in 2011 because they just came off the 22. no he wasn't they they let him go after the super bowl oh okay yeah we'd have to stretch the rules a little bit yeah yeah well you could go desmond bishop because i think he's in the same but same boat yeah well no i tell you what we'll we'll we'll do a callback
01:18:09
Speaker
Sam Shields. We desperately need a cornerback. I think it it's so wild that he was a... Literally made the team because it's like, we need someone who can run really fast and can run with the Deshaun Jacksons of the world. So that's why you're going to make the roster and you're going to start week one rookie in a position you didn't play in college for you know more than a year. And then he had his lumps, you know...
01:18:40
Speaker
Almost got cut at one point, like in 2012, and then became one of the like top five corners in the NFL, like at the peak of his career. And his his epitaph is that he averaged multiple interceptions in NFC Championship games, which is like no small feat of him. And it's so funny because it's like his thing was like, oh, yeah, he couldn't stick at receiver because he couldn't catch the ball very well. And yet in the key games of his career, it's like, what's he known for?
01:19:12
Speaker
Interceptions in the 2010 NFC Championship game. the the like fingertip interception in the 2013 comeback in Dallas and stuff and like like just became this otherworldly playmaking cornerback. And it is such a bummer that his Green Bay career ended because just concussions like he like questions yeah like it is an ultimate bummer that that's how his career ended because he still had years left to give the team and yeah and you know to go back to that I don't think he even thought he was going to make the roster
01:19:49
Speaker
because I remember being up there at training camp for his, those were the times that I could go spend like two and a half weeks up at training camp. And me and him would sit there and have conversations every day after practice.
01:20:01
Speaker
and and it And it felt like he was one of those UDFAs that, you know, they signed to the roster just to see what they have. And he's probably not going to make it. Maybe they can stash him on the practice squad.
01:20:16
Speaker
And that's that's just the way it felt with that year with him and then just to see what he did throughout his career and you know if he could stay concussion free what he could you know that that just amazing what he could have been jermichael finley is the other answer okay this offense would be i love how we we've talked about none of the receivers but yeah really we didn't i mean you could you could throw out there
01:20:45
Speaker
the If Golden can get better, he's already at what Greg Jennings could, you know, he's that Greg Jennings type. Watson, you could argue, fits the Jordy Nelson style role.
01:21:01
Speaker
i wish he was as durable as jordy was like my god like up until the acl like i remember all the jokes about like jordy getting his bursa sack removed and stuff like that and he played all the games that season do wonder what jennings looks like in this offense though because like his ability to like just separate from man coverage at will but also be a deep threat at the same time it's like I know he and he's done it to himself, but like he had one of the weirdest skill sets for a receiver. And like, i know the wheels did kind of fall off after he left Green Bay just physically. But like at his peak, he was just at his peak, though, he was one of the best receivers in the NFL. So, yeah, yeah it would be really interesting to see what he would do in this this offensive scheme.
01:21:49
Speaker
And then I could think you could put Wicks in the James Jones mold. So I really don't think as much as it would be neat to have one of those guys on there. I just, I don't think that that's the biggest one that we would need back.
01:22:04
Speaker
Yep, but we could sit here for hours talking about which which players move on from the last 15 years. I appreciate the guys reaching out even though Mafi is Mafi. But before Mike finishes out, I just want to say we had like an influx of new listeners come in on this last episode. Please stick around. We have great episodes coming out.
01:22:29
Speaker
you know drop us reviews give us likes you know retweet you know the old saying you know tell one friend if one friend tells 10 friends and those friends all tell 10 friends you know this thing can grow bigger and better and you know it it would make me feel good i don't know about kiwano but it would make me feel good we just want to hit the 100 subscribers on facebook so we can live stream there too that note please follow us on your social medias at ohana underscore Packers on Twitter at ohana Packers edition on Instagram like I said we're trying to hit that hundred subscribers on Facebook so we can live stream there biggest one coming up is day two of the draft we do our live stream Andrew this is your live for the audience invitation to join us then if you're free and able and you do not have to sit there through the whole
01:23:24
Speaker
five, six hours of day two of the draft. Please, if you have any free time, come join us. Even if it is only to like, hey, I'm here for the pick kind of thing. We enjoy anyone rolling through. Like last year, it was literally just me and Mafi sitting there because Joe had not the greatest internet reception as he was at Lambo. I was in Green Bay. Yeah. We're like Joe from a bench and Joe from random seating area near the, know, Joe, point the camera at the draft.
01:23:50
Speaker
That's awesome. it's a hoot and a holler. We try to keep it interesting here. Like Joe said, we really do appreciate when we get new listeners in. We hope you'll stick around.
01:24:00
Speaker
My eyes kind of just glazed over, as Joe mentioned, because that was just the two of us last week shooting the breeze about special teams and how, gosh darn, this better be it for Brandon McManus. I don't care. There must lot of people out there that really hate Brandon McManus like we do, because the clip that I posted from the episode has hit like triple digit viewers on it and almost and double digit likes on all of it. And the episode like had an extreme influx of listeners. So, you know, it must be a common thread. So maybe we just need to trash Brandon McManus for the rest of this podcast.
01:24:41
Speaker
Andrew, please tell everyone how they can follow you, how they can find you all the work you do. where Where can everyone find your work? Yeah, I am exclusively on Blue Sky on social media. So sorry, Brian, not returning to X. But I will be. i Currently, i'm I'm not doing a ton. But in the next week or so, I'll be doing a special series for Pack-A-Day leading up to the draft. So I'll i'll have like like a 10-part series. So, you know, check that out.
01:25:12
Speaker
Awesome. Appreciate the time. I'm glad that we were able to reschedule to get you on. you know I'm glad that it just worked out that moving you back a weekend, we were able to get you on. Joe was doing his yeoman's work to make everything work out from a scheduling. And it was like, we're going this week and he's coming on next week. was like, OK, this is good. So glad we were able to have you start getting drained on things that you can rearrange certain things. Super appreciate you having me.
01:25:40
Speaker
No, absolutely always glad to have you on. Well, I should say, Joe is glad to have you on again. I'm glad to to have you on and talk to you for the first time, Andrew. But thank you so much for joining us. Like I said, we just did it. where We're good.
01:26:00
Speaker
And with that, go Pack Go and aloha.