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Cheesehead Tight End Summit ft. Taylor Czajkowski
0 Playsin 2 hours
The Packers have quietly built a strong tight end room… but could the 2026 NFL Draft make it elite?
On this episode of the Ohana Packers Edition Podcast, we’re joined by draft analyst Taylor Czajkowski (@tczajkow33) to break down the top tight end prospects the Green Bay Packers should be watching.
We dig into:
• The modern role of tight ends in Matt LaFleur’s offense
• Prospects who can help Jordan Love attack the middle of the field
• Blocking vs receiving — what Green Bay really needs
• Day 1, Day 2 and sleeper TE targets for the Packers
• Which prospects scream “future fan favorite at Lambeau”
If you love draft talk, scheme fit, and future Packers — this episode is for you.
🎧 Listen now and get ready to meet the next great Packers tight end.
#GoPackGo #NFLDraft #PackersNation #Cheeseheads #NFLPodcast
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Transcript
Welcome and Guest Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back for another episode of the HUNAPax edition podcast. Today we continue our pre-draft preview, say that five times fast, with tight end position and today we have Taylor on joining us. so Taylor, thank you for joining us on the show.
Name Pronunciation: Taylor Chakowski
00:00:15
Speaker
Yeah, of course, no problem. Happy to be here.
00:00:18
Speaker
Okay, I have to ask, how do you pronounce your last name? I was trying to do it the whole time and I know Mike was going to struggle with it's that's pretty that's pretty close yeah chakowski yeah pretty close chakowski okay i i was thinking it was going to be something like mcowski just the way it was spelled so okay that makes sense i get the mike wazowski jokes quite often oh yeah yeah
00:00:46
Speaker
so joe how did you find taylor Well, we were just kind of talking about that before you jumped on that. Obviously, like like our listeners know, we try to do a week by week thing with with the draft positions. And i had been in touch with with another gentleman, Jim Wickens.
Introduction to Draft Chat
00:01:06
Speaker
And, you know, he's the draft professor and all this other stuff. And he's got like a group chat of 80 plus people. And and he goes, well,
00:01:18
Speaker
He just started throwing out names and handles and like, well, ask this one if they want to do this and ask this one if they want to do that. And Taylor was one of the ones that responded. So I was like, you're in.
00:01:30
Speaker
you know Excellent. Perfect.
Taylor's Passion for Football
00:01:34
Speaker
yeah So Taylor, just give us a little quick spiel for our 36 followers of who you are what's your interest in football, how how you got lassoed into Jim's draft draft professor thread, and what your interests are with the NFL.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, i I love football. I love the NFL. It's always been my favorite, especially the NFL draft. Like when I was a kid, my dad would be like draft books and I would you know always go through them and see what players were going from college to the NFL. So, you know, just something that I've been doing for like the last 10 years for fun, kind of on the side. And I just post my thoughts on Twitter.
00:02:12
Speaker
pretty much. And Jim just found me. And then I started, you know, doing some pods and stuff with the draft professors, which is giving me more like, you know, a structural place to go through position by position. So it's kind of the first year I've been doing that. and It's been really fun.
00:02:28
Speaker
It sounds about like everybody else, you know, I kind of was, i didn't read the draft manuals, but I would sit there every draft with a notebook and I would write down to each player that I liked or each player that the Packers took. And then I would go look them up afterwards.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yep. That's pretty much it. Just a small love of the draft when I was younger. I was like, oh, films accessible? This is awesome. And I just watched these guys get ready to go to the NFL and kind of, you know, I just post my thoughts on Twitter and I've i've been right on some stuff.
00:03:03
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, maybe, you know, like a big one for me was Amon Ross St. Brown. I know you guys are Packers. crew But he was a top five wide receiver for me and he's famously like the 16th wide receiver taken in that class. So just some. Yeah, we like that we tried not to bring that name up because that was a big miss for the Packers. Particularly because that was a name a lot of Packers fans wanted. But yeah Taylor, I have to backtrack a second.
From Magazines to Online Guides
00:03:29
Speaker
One thing I appreciate you mentioning is and it sounds like you're a little younger than Joe and I, but I appreciate that you reference something that is near and dear to Joe in my heart. that we are all from the era where you know the internet started to get bigger for draft coverage and all that kind of stuff. But we are all from some point of the era where magazine draft pre-draft magazines were a part of the reality. And like I know everyone does their draft guide online nowadays and all that kind of stuff. But like we come from the days where Athlon Sports and
00:04:02
Speaker
all those different magazines that do just sports betting now, they used to have their positional breakdowns and all that kind of stuff. So it it is a breath of fresh air to hear someone from our era, so to speak, who still can reference following the draft on paper to an extent. You know, that that does warm my heart as opposed to some people who are like, you guys, they they sold these in... Grocery stores? Yes. So that that puts a smile on my face to hear that reference.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, i I remember sitting at gas stations when I worked at them, and that would be what I would do on my my downtime. when i'd I'd grab whatever one was on the rack, and and i i would just flip through it. The one that I remember most was because it was the year the Packers took Raji and Clay. So I remember going through the magazine's pre-draft as as I'm sitting at work, okay, well, this guy could be there. This Raji guy sounds like he could be something that the Packers could look at.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yep, absolutely. And Taylor, we apologize that there's going to be moments where Joe and I just pause on each other. And that's going back to Joe joking about my internet before. There are times where we're both like, did he break? Did I break? Did I drop out? So bear with us on that. There's a still fluid production. But before we get into- Mike has been out for a couple of weeks, so he's he's got to get back into the flow of things.
00:05:30
Speaker
have to remember how to do podcast. said I wasn't that great before. Anywho, before we get into our draft coverage, just a couple of- Hang on, Mike. You're garbling.
00:05:42
Speaker
So two quick
Mental Health Awareness: Rondale Moore
00:05:43
Speaker
bits of news. First off, we want to extend our kindol condolences to Rondale Moore's family.
00:05:49
Speaker
Just really shocking to hear of his passing this, what was it, Thursday or Friday? i I am so out of it. Yeah, it was just announced like yesterday.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm so still so off the whole passing the international date line twice the last two weeks. But I remember you know joe and I, we're fans of Big Ten schools. He's Iowa, I'm Michigan. We remember more in college. like As a Michigan fan, we hold him in a certain esteem because he's the guy that pretty much single-handedly beat Ohio State one year for Purdue. So like it's just, it you know,
00:06:27
Speaker
you never get used to hearing this kind of news but when you see someone who is 25 years old and passes out of nowhere you know we still don't know what the details are of his no they is found them with a gunshot wound to the head self-inflicted okay there you go yeah see like i hadn't even followed it up on any of it and that just makes it even more tragic And, you know, it just goes again to show like you never know what any of these guys are dealing with. You don't know the demons that are in their closet or, you know, what's behind closed doors. And, you know, you just
00:06:59
Speaker
whatever you know well wishes that you can send his family's way and you know just another reminder as usual check in on your friends and family and just tell people you know what you think of them how how important they are to you because you never know these days so you know you never know if it could could change the mood for them slightly
00:07:22
Speaker
Yes. Mental health. You know, that's like a big problem right now is it's all stigmatized and people are afraid to go get help because they're worried about what the perception is of getting help. So, yeah, please go out. If you're having issues, go out, talk to somebody. If you're religious, go talk to your your your religious figure. If you're not, then find a friend. Just sit down, have a beer and say, hey, I'm going through this, you know.
00:07:48
Speaker
don't be afraid to talk about it. Be open with it. And don't worry about what everybody else is saying. Do do what you need to to get the help you need.
00:08:01
Speaker
Absolutely. Joe pointed out, you know, it's miles better than where we were like five years ago in terms of mental health, but it's still not anywhere near good enough. So just continue to check in on your friends and family. And if you are like Joe said, if you are the one who needs help,
00:08:18
Speaker
There are so many online therapy or whatever, but even if you just have to call a close family or a friend member, do it. like Don't feel like you have to go it alone. In more Packers-centered news, yeah we haven't had a show since the Rich Basaccia news broke. The Packers are going to be on the lookout for a new special teams coordinator. And I guess also if they're going to have a new associate head coach. Joe and I have made it very clear how we feel about this, that what they should do is promote Stenevich to that role and then give Stenevich that title. And then that way you can...
00:08:54
Speaker
it allows you to promote him that way and then demote him down to o-line coach and sort of like resuscitate the skill increase that you were getting from him as just a position coach so the packers they've i think they've done anywhere from like four to six interviews at this point like And I'm not really thrilled with some of the ones that they've been interviewing. When you look at their statistics as past special teams coordinators, they really haven't been great. So i'm not I think that just goes to show that LeFleur is definitely not interested in the special teams aspect of of football.
00:09:38
Speaker
yeah it it really does just feed into the the whole what's it called the shanahan tree guys just don't care about it that much and coming from two guys who do not agree with that mode of thinking. But we'll find out. you know That's one of those that, you know like Joe said, not thrilled with the name so far. But at the same time, we're going to have to just see where it goes when it goes. And unfortunately, that's the impasse we're at at that point. but
00:10:10
Speaker
Back to the point of this episode, we don't want to have Taylor
Packers' Tight End Roster Update
00:10:13
Speaker
sitting here listening to us go on about behind closed door Packers issues. We brought Taylor on to talk tight ends and it's a position for the Packers. So Taylor, I don't know how much Joy has told you, but generally how we take this is kind of go into state of the position group with the Packers. Then we go with David Vogelpohl, day one prospects or guess for the Packers just day two because we don't have a day one pick this year and then who your favorite guys in the class from any part of the class is and who your potential sleepers are David Vogelpohl, i'm just going through what the Packers have on roster so.
00:10:49
Speaker
unfortunately you know they lost tucker craft to the acl terror against carolina that was a huge blow to the packers just forget just offense just their team structure and how they operated in within the game flow sense and you know they tr they were able to reintegrate luke musgrave as the season went but you really did just see the difference in the the things that the the different facets of the game that Kraft offers being a plus player at, you know, as a receiving option, route runner, mismatch option, and a blocker. Whereas Musgrave is more just like a seam threat downfield kind of guy
00:11:29
Speaker
Has had pretty good hands as a pro. And then it is just... After that, there's just a lot of guys on this roster. You have a John Fitzpatrick who just disintegrated his ankle in the – was it the week – no, it was the playoff game, right, Joe? I'm totally blanking on when he got hurt. was it the first Bears game because they went a couple of weeks with only – Oh, yeah, yeah. It was – that's what happens when you play the Bears in the same stadium late in the season within a month. You start to get these mixed up. but So Fitzpatrick is likely out at least through the first half of the season.
00:12:05
Speaker
What's it called? And then after that, you're just on a lot of like practice squad only type of guys. So you know you're going into the final kind of rookie contract years of Musgrave and Kraft. Kraft is obviously a high atop the board for extension options.
00:12:22
Speaker
and i think that's going to happen regardless of where he's at with the acl recovery obviously they want to see him come back and stuff but i do think it would behoove the packers to sign that deal sooner than later just to sort of keep that number as quote unquote team friendly as possible he's just going to get more expensive the more he proves he is like the guy he was pre-injury and stuff and it does help that craft oh I was just going to say, I wonder if they'll do a Christian Watson type contract with him just just to see what he's going to be like as a recovery. Because obviously you don't want to throw like a five-year deal on a guy that ends up with a knee like David Bakhtiari. That is true.
00:13:04
Speaker
That is very true. The one thing that the I guess the two things that are different between Watson and Kraft is Kraft has been healthy, relatively healthy, other than this ACL tear.
00:13:14
Speaker
And the second thing is he's he's a high RAS guy. You know, he's like a nine six RAS or something like that when he came out of South Dakota State. But it wasn't that he relied on his elite athleticism to like do the things he did on the field he was much more of like a technician body position player and that used his athleticism to like break big plays after the catch than he did to like get open if that makes sense but all that suffice it to say is that I know it's not as much of a red light item as like cornerback offensive line are for the average fan.
00:13:52
Speaker
But this is a position that at least in my opinion, fans might their eye might twitch if who takes one second or third round. but if you just think of what i've said and where the roster is in terms of there's two guys that are like nfl clear nfl talent guys and they're both in the final year of their contracts one of them in musgrave is probably gone no matter what unless the light just absolutely comes on this year and he totally but fulfills his pre-draft you know prospect status
00:14:25
Speaker
I just think that they're going to be looking for two to three tight ends in the next two years. And that's why it behooves them to get a prospect this draft that they really feel good in investing in.
00:14:36
Speaker
And from there, Taylor, I turned it over to you. For your day two targets, who are the tight ends that sit atop your board in that Well, before that, with Taylor being an outsider looking at the Packers roster, I would like to get his opinion on what he thinks the the Packers tight end room is right
Evaluating Packers' Tight Ends
00:14:54
Speaker
now. Especially, and I'm going to let you talk,
00:14:59
Speaker
considering the rumor that there was a possibility the broncos were trying to trade for musgraves before the craft injury so i'd like to hear what your thoughts are taylor yeah i mean obviously musgrave was the first tight end of the two taken in the 2023 NFL draft. And, you know, they had big hopes for him. He was taken he was not the first tight end on the board, first tight end for the Packers of the two, right? He was taken ahead of Kraft. And Kraft came in and he kind of took that role. and I think there's two reasons for that. What he creates in the run game as a blocker and what he does after he has the ball in his hand as a receiver, right? Run after the catch, like you saw it in his highlights, it's out to go to state. Obviously it was FCS, but
00:15:41
Speaker
He blew up the combine, like you said, huge draft score. like i got him drafted, I think, in the fifth round. So you're looking for tight ends that are complementary of that. So Musgrave has not really been the complementary piece that maybe some thought he would when he went like 40-something overall.
00:15:58
Speaker
So to get someone aligned with Kraft on day two, you're looking at a tier of options. And there's a couple of things about Packers tight end. did some research on Packers tight ends that have been drafted before, but like Tucker Kraft, for example, 254.
00:16:13
Speaker
luke musgrave 6 6 253 they both ran in the four sixes some other tight ends that have been drafted and since the 2020s jay sternberger 6 4 251 josiah deguaro was kind of the outlier he's only 6 2 242 but so you kind of see a pattern here of pack the packers wanting really big strong tight ends like they want the prototypical size for the position and they're willing to spend for that so a couple guys on day two i think that fit this are sam roush out of stanford he's a guy that you're going to hear me talking about quite a bit i think he was a kind of a late riser someone at the senior bowl really is where he blew up people started to see what he can do stanford hasn't had any real spectacular quarterback play over the last couple years. So you have a very talented receiver receiving tight end who can also block with some of the best the class. And again, six foot five, 260 pounds.
00:17:09
Speaker
I think once we get out of next weekend and we have the combine numbers and we know where everyone's at, I think he's a name that you're going to hear. Pretty firmly set on to day two, I would think, in the third round.
00:17:20
Speaker
Another guy is probably one of the best college football tight ends this past season, and that's Daquan Wright out of Ole Miss. He helped Ole Miss go to the college football playoff after transferring from – he went from Cincinnati to Colorado, and then he went to Ole Miss, I believe. But 6'4", 255 pounds, one of the he's a really talented receiving tight end.
00:17:45
Speaker
doesn't offer as much in the blocking game but it's not for a lack of effort i mean he's definitely willing to block and he's really good in pass protection and that's kind of an underrated style and people really think about that when they think about tight ends but a lot of times they do kick out to those edges and if the line shifts the other way, then they're blocking one-on-one with an edge rusher and he handles himself pretty well in those situations. He's a guy that I think has just tremendous upside. Like I gave him, you know, like a ceiling on my model of just one tier below, like pretty much Kenyan Sadiq, which is the max of what his potential could be. Just because I think he has that prototypical frame and he's already so good as a pass catcher that I think he's another guy that can play alongside
00:18:28
Speaker
tucker craft and really help that offense especially move the ball on the ground so between those two guys i think those are kind of the area where you're looking into day two i think there's some other players that i think will go day two that maybe don't necessarily fit as well and those would be maybe a guy like max claire or a guy like tanner coziel these are big bodied kind of more receiving threats that don't really hold up as well in the run game Max Clair has his moments in blocking for sure, but Tanner Coziel is like 250-some pounds.
00:18:59
Speaker
So he's a big body just receiving threat, especially in the red zone. Those are really the tight ends that I can see going on day two. So definitely Sam Rauch from Stanford and Daquan Wright from Ole Miss would be my, you know, day two targets for the Packers.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. when i once oh Go Joe. Go Joe. Sorry. I was just going to say, I watched both of them. They were two of the guys that I was able to get any kind of, you know, kind of backtracking to what we were talking about being old school and all that stuff. It used to be that we could watch all this shit on on YouTube. Somebody would break them down, cut ups everywhere. And now you have to like dig deep into the dark web just to be able to find something on these guys. So what I was able to watch, I did watch Roush and I did watch right. i think i like w right a little bit better but he falls into the uh dawson knox mold where they didn't use him he didn't have like major or is is that he had what he had like 600 yards or something like that
00:20:05
Speaker
talking about Daquan, right? Yeah. Yeah, he was one of the more productive tight ends, I believe. That's not saying a lot because most of these guys like Sam Rauch or even some other guys I'll name don't really come in with more than 200 or 300 receiving yards in a season. Right. Kind of just a position not very underutilized in college football.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, so right – i I liked everything about him. I thought he was a little bit more of a stout blocker. and that could just be that they didn't use him as the blocker like like Tucker Craft was being used his first year or two and in Green Bay. But I did like what I saw out of him. i said his routes were pretty decent as hands. He was a good hands catcher. You know, he didn't rely on making the body catches like you see some of these guys do.
00:20:52
Speaker
he looked like he was a little bit he had a little bit more longer speed than quickness which kind of reminded me of of the kid out of that's with pittsburgh right now uh dwayne washington oh daryl daryl washington darnell darne darll darnell darnell darnell yeah where they they can move but they have to it takes them a little bit to get to that that top speed which you know you're not expecting your your tight end to outrun everybody in the world but you know that that does kind of hurt with the short passes when you know you're not able to get that quickness to them roush
00:21:32
Speaker
you know i agree with everything on him good speed his tech blocking technique was good i thought he that i had made this note because i found it a little bit funny that his takeoff was a little weird he took off like he was going right into pass blocking and then he took off where he would do that little funky foot uh stomp like he was already engaged in a block and then he would like and i just noticed that a few different times i was like that's a weird way to start out of your your route but that's just a minor thing that that's not anything major with him i thought he could be a little bit quicker out of his breaks he he did tend to be a little bit slow out of his route breaks uh the one major knock on him
00:22:20
Speaker
and it drives me nuts with a lot of these guys is they're more worried about what's coming behind them than what's in front of them. And there was one really long touchdown that he had, and i can't think of the team he was against, but he just kept looking back and looking back and like, you're losing so much speed looking back like that, that if you just worry about what's ahead of you,
00:22:41
Speaker
You wouldn't even have to worry what was behind you because you were ahead of everybody, but you let everybody catch up to you because you kept like turning your head backwards and that would that would slow slow you down. Wrong page.
00:22:56
Speaker
I didn't think he was going to be the type of guy that was going to get a lot of run through tackles. This isn't to say he was going to be like a Musgraves where he just goes down on every, just when a guy breathes on him. But I didn't think he was going to be the type that was going to carry a a pile along with him.
00:23:14
Speaker
And then i again, I thought he was a pretty solid hand catcher. So, I mean, both those guys are, would be worth it to have lined up with, with Kraft. But it also depends on what LeFleur wants. Does he want another craft or does he want what what he had hoped Luke Musgraves was going to be? Was that stretch the seam, you know not worry about the blocking so much, but stretch the seam, be a mismatch and all that stuff. But if the Packers walked away with one of these two guys on day two, I would have no hesitations with it.
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that last point is where I'm going to go with my talking point here is that you the problem before Kraft got injured is that LeFleur has always stated he wants to operate out of bigger personnel packages. He likes operating out of 12 personnel, if possible, condensed formations.
00:24:10
Speaker
Musgrave has one superpower, and that's stretching the seam. And once Kraft got injured, we were harping on it for a few weeks. And then finally, LeFleur was like, OK, he's going to do nothing but run seam routes and run corner routes. And he had a couple like against the Broncos. That was one of the big plays early in the game. He cut catches that corner route like on the second drive that gains 24 yards or something like that. And he was just using Musgrave more like that. The problem there is like those kind of players, unless you're making him a a central focus of your offense, you're only going to that well, like two, maybe three times a game. And if he can't block or do other things like turn short catches into, you know, decent chunk or decent chunk gains.
00:24:53
Speaker
you really limit the flexibility your offense has when that player is on the field you kind of start to like tip your hand as to what you're going to or you do you end up having to force things like musgrave has to stay into block and that's always like rolling the dice and stuff so i do think there is a little more sort of like there would be a little more comfortability for LeFleur's sake if they were to get someone who fit more in the Kraft mode that is a little bit more of a multifaceted player that, you know, could both play at the same time as Kraft, but also could be the only tight end on the field at the same time. And I think that's the player that they have just been searching for the last two years. It's like once Kraft elevated and Musgrave, you know,
00:25:38
Speaker
partly through being the guy he is, you know, Bambi learning how to run kind of thing. And also just not having the dumb shit worst luck with injuries or just not even injuries, just bodily function issues. They've just been searching for that second tight end for the the offense to operate out of 12. You know, they tried to work with Ben Sims for a while. They released him. Fitzpatrick was given the opportunity this season that did you know Fitzpatrick was OK, but he got injured and probably is starting the season on pup.
00:26:07
Speaker
And so do think... Oh yeah, that's right. He's a free agent. But you know coming off dusting his ankle, I think it'll be pretty easy to ro retain to bring him back because not many people are going to be after him more than likely. But yeah, like like I said, this room is thin and it's what kind of player are you going to be investing in moving forward?
00:26:27
Speaker
I do wonder if they do pick a guy who is... you know like If it came down to these two players, if they were to go more with... the but the higher upside receiving player just because they're like we have craft who we know can do both but if we can get a guy who can block and is willing to block like i do think in the pros at tight end being a willing blocker is more than half the battle because it's like as long as you're willing to learn the technique put in the effort getting in the way is winning in the nfl as a tight end like i think the average fan needs to understand that
00:27:03
Speaker
a Gronk, Kraft, or Fudge, what's... why I'm totally blanking on Kittle. Or Kittle level blocker is like the unicorn of a blocking tight end.
00:27:15
Speaker
And that the average is like, you just need a wall-off guy. And if they can just get that level of blocking just so as as the floor, but someone who can threaten the scene you know to not necessarily take the role from Musgrave this year, but starting in 2027 to be the scene threat guy, i do think that that's something that they should be very interested in pursuing out of this position group.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the that's the that's the place. I think they'll ultimately go with it and is because they don't necessarily have to have the tight end on the field right now. I don't know what timeline Tucker Craft is working on, but you at least have Musgrave. You probably are going to get Josh Wiley back, right? He's that H-back type, right? Yes. you're going to lose Fitzpatrick, but then you might be able to get a guy like Daquan Wright, who can be like, I think he's a more pro ready right now player than Sam Rauch, the other guy we just mentioned. So I think you plug and play Daquan Wright, you know, into some different packages while you're waiting on craft or craft to come back. And then he's maybe a guy you go because, you know, you want someone on the field now, but if you think that you, you know, craft is good recovery wise, him and Musgrave are going to be your two tight ends on the field. Most of the time this year, Then maybe you go after a developmental guy like another guy that might sneak on a day to Oscar Delp out of Georgia, six foot five, 245 pounds, like a guy who has a lean frame, but he can put on some mass, get to working with Tucker Craft in the in the blocking game and you know Oscar Delp could have you know pretty high potential as well right there. so It depends on what route you want to go. Do they want a guy that can be on the field this year because they have obviously expectations of being back in the playoffs and making a Super Bowl run, or do they just get a guy that they can develop behind behind Musgrave because when Musgrave probably leaves in free agent next year, then he'll be a fixture in the office but where do you where do you guys value that from a a draft pick perspective because is that is that a day two or is that a day three you know conversation go for it joe well i first i want to address something i'm gonna i'm gonna throw out a hot take here is i don't think musgrave is back this season the like i was saying earlier the rumor was
00:29:31
Speaker
from Denver side of things was they had a deal in place to bring in a tight end, but the deal fell through because the person on roster got hurt and they didn't have a replacement for them.
00:29:46
Speaker
Well, the only one that you can think of at the time of that happening was Tucker Craft getting hurt. So that meant Luke Musgraves was on the block. So i wonder, and again, this also depends on what Tucker's timeline is. i you know i would have imagined he's pretty close to week one that he can be ready.
00:30:07
Speaker
So I strongly think that there's a chance that especially come draft day and not having the two first round picks and you know wanting to collect as much draft capital as they can,
00:30:21
Speaker
I could see them moving Musgraves for even like a fifth round pick or something like that just to get something out of him. Now, to kind of answer your question, Taylor,
00:30:35
Speaker
the if And I said this, and this kind of became controversial on the TikTok clip that I that i put out. when i do When I schedule these things week by week, I go by the biggest needs. So I put this one just after the cornerback because this is a sneaky need. Like I said, or like we've been talking about, Tucker's coming back from the ACL. Musgraves has not lived up to the draft type.
00:31:04
Speaker
then you've got a bunch of, you know, what are these behind them? Fitzpatrick, is he back? Is he not back? Can he even play again? You know, we don't know. Wiley looked okay in the limited amount of snaps and plays that he had, but can he be relied on as that number two?
00:31:23
Speaker
and then they had a few guys that they brought in onto the practice squad that yeah maybe we don't know they looked all right in college but you know and they were rookies this last season so we don't know what they've done in the nfl wiley's been in the league for a few years i think he's 27 yeah something like that so i think you've pretty much reached what he's going to be in the league so in my view Like I said, tight end is a sneaky need for the Packers because, again, Tucker's looking like he could be back by week one, but how much are they going to be able to use him for a while? Because we all know there's always a ramp-up period with guys coming off of that injury.
00:32:13
Speaker
So, you know, i could see them, especially if they have an extra pick or two that they could trade back into the second or third round and say, yeah, this guy's, you know, a right or Roush or somebody like that is what we're needing.
00:32:29
Speaker
Pull the trigger. and And yeah, go ahead, Mike. Oh, no. And I was going to say, i think what everyone what fans need to remember is like just remember how rough it was for Kraft at times during
Speculating Draft Picks for Tight Ends
00:32:41
Speaker
his rookie season. There was a point where it was like, oh, no, another third round bust for the Packers. The curse is on and stuff.
00:32:49
Speaker
but tight end and d-line tight end and d tackle are the two positions where rookies suck like you they just are not good as and if because the physical like top tier guys right kyle and even then were like yeah and even then it's like vernon davis it was like oh man did san france set a top 10 pick on fire kind of thing and stuff like just the the physical elevation of you know the the differential between like playing against other college guys to playing against men at your position kind of thing. That exchange going from college to the pros, it takes time for guys to adjust to that. And so I bring that up to say, like the Packers might take a guy in the third round. They might take a guy in the fourth or fifth round.
00:33:33
Speaker
I don't expect, and I do expect it to go the way Taylor mentioned it, where Kraft is going to get as many steps as they can give him. Like, that's going to be the thing. I'm with you, Joe. I'm still not sold on what they want to do with Musgrave because on one hand, I do think LaFleur figured out again that, oh yeah, this is the guy that I was force-feeding targets to the first half of his rookie season by like week 13 this past season.
00:34:01
Speaker
At the same time, it's the From Gutekun's point of view, it's the whole, is his value ever going to be higher than it is right now? Because he's probably not going to net you more than maybe like a round six comp pick, and that's in 2028. So it's like, if the ire if someone calls and is like, we'll give you a round six now for him, I do wonder if Gut will be like, yeah, that's that's enough for me. like That's enough for us. And especially if Kraft, you know, the reports are that Kraft is ready going to be ready
00:34:32
Speaker
like to return late in training camp kind of thing and he'll be able to start ramping up at late August and so like you said he won't be able to play all his snaps week one but he'll be able to play like most of the snaps he'd expect to play week one and so then it's like okay do we just roll with Kraft coming back from injury plus whatever rookie we get and then therefore like you said Are we more willing to spend a little higher on a tight end?
00:35:00
Speaker
And of course, this all depends. We say it every year, every position group. It all depends how the draft falls. And this is such a weird class because it's like the positions that normally go early, corner, some of the edge rusher stuff, it's a little eye of the beholder in those two positions. And those are positions where like you expect like a dozen to a dozen and a half guys to go in round one between those two positions. And then by the time you get to 52, you're expecting like 20 or so of the picks to be edge and cornerbacks. But it's like if those positions are weak, do other what other positions get?
00:35:40
Speaker
unnaturally elevated due to the process of elimination and all that kind of stuff. So it's really hard to say what Green Bay will do. But I do agree with Taylor that if either of those two guys are there, I wouldn't bat an eye if Green Bay took him.
00:35:55
Speaker
And I bring all the other stuff up to say... Don't be shocked if they don't play more than 20% of the snaps for the first month of the season because in LaFleur's offense, the tight end has to do everything. And they're gonna they're gonna so when they draft one of these guys, you know they're going to be like, Kraus, you're going to block. They're going to treat him like Kraft, his rookie year. You're going to be the blocker. We might throw you a flat route every like quarter or something like that, but that's it. You're going to learn on the fly that way. With Wright, it might be like, OK, you're going to get to do a few more things. but we're still going to pigeonhole you for a role.
00:36:30
Speaker
And however quickly you pick things up, that's how much you know that's how much more you're going to be integrated into the offense. So it's a position it's a position of need, but fans need to understand that just because it is a position of need doesn't mean that if they take a guy in round two or round three, that guy's going to get 50% of the snaps because it's just not realistic. It's not going to benefit the team if the guy's not ready to do it, and it's not going to benefit the rookie either because it's just – like we said it about craft his rookie year it's like you got to throw these guys a bone every once you can't just have them getting chewed out in film session every week where it's like you got your ass kicked here you didn't know who you were looking at there what coverage were they in you know you can't just do that to the guys over and over and over again there has to be some sort of positive reinforcement and that's why the packers you know it's not i'm not saying it's the perfect or the absolute right way but that is why they're like javon bullard you're our slot defender you know
00:37:26
Speaker
Lucas, you're going to come on for past rush designated pass rusher snaps. you know They have assigned roles for all their guys, and that's why they proceed with that route. But all that alphabet soup out of the way.
00:37:39
Speaker
Taylor, we're moving into day three. Who are the guys that, you know just if you're the GM of whatever team, you see this guy, you don't like the rest of the board, and you're like, screw it. This
Analyzing Marlon Klein's Potential
00:37:51
Speaker
is my guy. I'm taking him. I don't care what anyone else says.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah. OK, so I think actually both of these guys would pair honestly really well with what the Packers have done in the past, and that is take multiple tight ends in the draft like you saw it with with Musgrave and with Kraft in the same class. And then you've seen it with some of these that well, they haven't taken another tight end in his other two classes, but those are both day two guys. And with the need being such that if they were to move Musgrave for a sixth round pick,
00:38:18
Speaker
more you're more than likely going to be drafting two tight ends. And so a guy down at the bottom is you know near the bottom of my board right now, meaning like a sixth or or so round grade, and that's Marlon Klein out of Michigan. So he came to the- You put a low grade on a Michigan guy. Mike's not going to be happy. Well, he has a low grade because he hasn't really had the chance to blossom. He came from the Germany kind of way to path to the NFL.
00:38:47
Speaker
and yeah six foot six 250 and he is quick up the seams like he's one of those interesting receiver he's kind of a more musgrave type right where he's going to be outside he likes to work outside of the numbers than over the middle so he's kind of unique at tight end but he's very quick really good route runner he can hold his own blocking too and he has a really really lean frame right now but you know two years in the nf like a year or two in the nfl he's going to be bulked up he's gonna be big he helped uh he helped run block on the national championship team he was you know in a piece of their offense he doesn't have a huge production numbers which is why he's a little bit down my board but as a day three guy he's got a huge upside for sure it really looked like it was gonna be his season this year and then of course he bolos his ankle in the first game and it's just never the same after that point I think he had like 100 yards and a touchdown in the week one game. And then he you could just see it. he had dogged That ankle dogged him the whole rest of the season.
00:39:44
Speaker
This is a guy that Colston Loveland himself said, yeah, you know I'm going to go top 10. But this guy, Marlon Klein, if we just run in a straight line, he's going to beat me every time. kind of like Just to give you an idea of what kind of athleticism he has under the hood there.
00:39:59
Speaker
Like you said, through no fault of his own, the quarterback situation was not ideal his final two seasons at Michigan. And that injuries just really ate up his senior season. But you know like you said, if you're getting him mid to late day three, it's a good lottery ticket kind of pick. Outside of even the Michigan guy. yeah Yeah, there's a lot of upside there.
00:40:22
Speaker
Big time development. like he could He could be big. He could be good. I can't answer anything on him. I didn't get a chance to really look at him. I figured with Mike being back and Mike knowing Michigan pretty well that he'd he'd speak on him. He didn't see the field much against the last time we played Iowa, so that's why. I didn i didn't even know i didn't even know that you're a Michigan guy when I brought that name. That's just a guy that I identified like five guys I think will fit what the Packers do.
00:40:45
Speaker
but The four that I've named, Rouch, Wright, Delp, and then Klein. And then my last one, Dave day three late day three or UDFA. He's actually not even invited to the combine, which I think is crazy to me. And that's Shimon Mateer tight end out of Arizona State. Yes, is six foot four, 266 pounds. I just you know, I just mentioned all the the size of the Packers tight ends that they've drafted in the past. He fits right all right in line with that.
00:41:11
Speaker
i Good with the ball in his hands, but man, he is he is an excellent blocker. And I think that's kind of where this class has a lot of those guys that are going to be firmly in the John Fitzpatrick role, right? Like that is what they're going to do. And I think Mateo makes perfect sense for the Packers. He's a guy who has enough upside athletically that you can develop him into a pass catching weapon out of whether it's in line or the slot. But he is one of those guys that's going to give you all of his effort every time he's blocking.
00:41:40
Speaker
He's a very very, very underrated player, in my opinion. And I think he's going to go higher. and And maybe even you see the combine rises right after this week. Well, he's not at the combine, so he's not going to have that. So he's going to have kind of this he's got him off the radar. But I think there's going to be one or two NFL teams that really like what he's doing. and i think he fits the Packers really well.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah, that'll make Peron happen. that I think Matera will be on like the DJ's Guys I Like. kind of He'll be on those kind of like, if you're in the weeds with the draft the draft gurus, like he'll be on those kind of boards. And yeah, Taylor, just to kind of go back to what you were saying, Delp and... Delp and Klein both fit that mold, like you mentioned, where they more fit into the the Musgrave mold, where it's like there's more seam-stretching upside with both of them.
00:42:28
Speaker
But at the same time, both are, like the like we said, they're the willing... technician blockers they need to get in an nfl weight room because they are the more like angular linear athlete builds right now but they're both guys another fellow uh draft professor recent addition in jake shavink shavink has just been banging the table for delt me in particular but also klein as like he goes just get me the next angular linear tight end and you know we'll figure out how to make it work and the You know, that's the thing is, like, everyone rags on Musgrave, but when it's working in this Packers offense, he brings an element that they do not have outside of, like, what Watson gives them on the table. And it I don't think the average fan understands...
00:43:14
Speaker
how different it is when that seam threat is coming from your tight end because it just totally screws up defensive coverages because when it's a receiver, it's easier to bring a safety over the shadow over the top and stuff like that. But when it's a tight end who's threatening up the seam, especially from an inline position,
00:43:31
Speaker
It just it it's the one that gives defensive coordinators nightmares because it's like, how do I want to initiate the coverage? Is there a linebacker I'm shrouding over the top first? Do I bring a safety into the box? And does that mean I'm hedging both my safeties against this tight end or, you know, like it just because of how the inside out factor of a tight end doing that, that seemed threatening how it breaks down a defense that is just such a higher commodity and is why teams are always willing like that's how what's his face of falcons tight end i'm totally hit pits that's why pits went top 10 because it's like that's your guy who can run routes like a receiver from any position It's why Colston Loveland went top 10 where everyone's like, you know, like, oh, like he, yeah, he was Michigan's top receiver, but what does that really mean in a, you know, a Michigan offense kind of thing? It's like those guys who can run routes like that, that's, that's the unicorn that every NFL offense is trying to lasso. So not saying that Delp or Klein are going to be those guys, but they have the potential to, you
00:44:43
Speaker
they have the potential to swing for the fences and maybe become that guy and why as taylor mentioned you would take the lottery scratch on those two guys in like especially if they fall to round five or six like i'll go run the ticket up at that point and you know we're we're in that territory So i got one that I'd like to bring up because I kind of I liked what I saw out of him and that's my Miles Kitzelman out of Tennessee.
00:45:11
Speaker
i thought his blocking looked good. His routes look good. Speed is solid. Good hands catcher. The one knock on him that I and it's really weird when they can do this. He can be an active blocker and take a guy to ground. But when it comes to running through contact, he couldn't run through contact.
00:45:28
Speaker
And it's like, wait a minute, you you can hold up and blocking, but you can't run a guy over. And that could just be technique. That could just be some of the film that I watched. I don't know what he actually did throughout college because there was only like two or three games that I watched of him.
00:45:43
Speaker
i And and then I always preference this. I don't do round grades, so I don't know where he would be sitting or where people have him ranked. But I could see that being a type of guy that the the Packers could bring in as a Musgraves, or not a Musgraves, Kraft backup plan. You know, okay, well, we got to kind of...
00:46:05
Speaker
back off of of Tucker because you know maybe the knees bothering him a little bit so we're not going to give him as many snaps this game well let's throw Kitzelman in there he he can do a little bit of everything or if they're playing two tight end sets then he can be that other tight end and all that so what do you guys think of him Yeah, i'm I'm actually so glad that you brought him up because had a sixth guy on my list of five and that was him.
Interest in Miles Kitzelman
00:46:31
Speaker
I cut him off. But yeah, you're right. i mean, he's another guy that fits this mold, right, of this big, big body tight end that can do a little bit of everything, right? He's six foot five, 255. So right in that right in that kind of wheelhouse of what the Packers like to do from a draft perspective. And you're right, he is willing to block anybody and yeah, he pretty much gets tackled, you know, first first contact, but that's okay. There are guys like that in the league all over the place. Jake Ferguson would be a good example of that. who i love Who I like very much, is a very good tight end, but he was an early day three round pick. So I i think in that range for Kitzelman, I mean, if someone just wants to take a swing on the upside, I think it makes sense here. And I think he could he could fit in any systems tied into, but for the Packers, it specifically makes sense.
00:47:24
Speaker
I found one. at I just give said his name. I was like, I'm not even kidding. I had like five guys and I didn't have time to I thought about Kitzelman and I was like, I don't have time right now to go through him and get him prepped for the pod. And I was like, oh, that's who I would. I would pick as another late round sleeper. And then, of course, you said him. So that was perfect.
00:47:43
Speaker
all right joe and oh no go go ahead i was just gonna say i watched him and i and i enjoyed what he i was seeing so was like yeah that can be my draft crush it and since i got to stand up on my soapbox for my michigan wolverine joe who is this year's come out of nowhere iowa hawkeye tight end that's gonna have an eight to ten year nfl career there are none really it might be the first time ever Oh, wow.
00:48:12
Speaker
I think the only one that could have was Ostringa, but i think he got like a medical for an extra year. Other than that, no, there there are no Iowa tight ends this year.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, they add yeah had a freshman All-American though. so Yeah, Venami. There's one coming. yeah Unless you do what I think could possibly happen and Mark Ranowski becomes a tight end in the league.
00:48:44
Speaker
I think that's the only possible tight end from Iowa, unless there's a guy that didn't see any action and will end up as a UDFA. But I don't think there are any of this year of that either.
00:48:58
Speaker
Got it. Got it. Yeah. just There are a couple other guys, unless you got somebody that you'd like to talk about, Mike. No, I'm just kind of bouncing off of you guys. Okay. Well, there are a couple guys like Eli Raritan out of Notre Dame. You know, obviously Notre Dame is another one of those Midwestern schools that produces linemen and tight ends. He could be maybe the second guy off the board, but it's like it's a big drop from, you know, tight end one to tight end two. The only knock that I had on him was he run he runs weird. he like He's like hunched over when he runs. And it's like, dude, open up and you'd probably outrun everybody on the field. But good hands catcher. He's big. I think he's listed like, what, 6'7 or something like that.
00:49:50
Speaker
He's a willing blocker, but not great. Good stretch the field, tight end. And, you know, like I said, good hands catcher. Then you got Eli Stowers out of Vanderbilt that could be another one.
00:50:02
Speaker
One, the is interesting but if you go by mafia he's got a extensive off the field thing uh it's michael trig out of baylor you know he could be but i think one of his things is uh
00:50:20
Speaker
uh drops if it hits your hands you need to finish it and there were too many times and i watched it hit his hands and it just bounced off or whatever uh he's one of those that's not an easy tackle he he can carry the the group uh jack injuries out of texas could be a udfa late round guy that that looked pretty good In his blocking, he's got good technique, but he can be overpowered once in a while, occasional drop there.
00:50:47
Speaker
But if this is one that fits the perfect Packer UDFA, And it would not surprise me one bit if he ended up as a UDFA Bower Sharp out of l LSU. Speed looks good. Routes are good. He's more of a possession type, not break tackle.
00:51:07
Speaker
Low college production. He was a former quarterback that that made the transition to tight end. Well, how many times have we heard that with UDFAs, Mike? former Former quarterback becomes tight end.
00:51:22
Speaker
So I think he could be the, if I had to make a guess on a UDFA in the end of February before we've even hit the combine, he would probably be a Packer UDFA.
00:51:35
Speaker
Hey, the best Steelers tight end of the past 20 years went to college as as a quarterback, and that was Heath Miller, so why not? yeah Yep. Eli Stowers is a former quarterback as well.
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah, and that's why I said I think the only way the Hawkeyes are going to have a tight end come out for this draft as would be if Kronowski, because if you go if you go by his his North Dakota State tape, he might be an all right quarterback.
00:52:06
Speaker
But if you go by strictly his Iowa tape, he's not a quarterback because he was his only production really came from the fact that he could run. And he wasn't even really that big of a runner, I mean, speed-wise. he he you know he looked like a tight end when he got out on the open field. He wasn't going to outrun everybody, but he was going to run somebody over. he was going to you know take a pile with him. So I think he could be somebody that tested both quarterback and tight end and come to find out that he'll be a better tight end than he will be a quarterback in the league.
00:52:42
Speaker
Taylor, one that we don't always do, but any of the like consensus top five or 10 at the position that you're not really a fan of?
Critique of Top 10 Tight Ends
00:52:50
Speaker
Not really. i think I think some people have vaulted Kenyon Sadiq maybe a little bit higher than I would have him. I think you know getting him into the top 10 range, I know everyone wants to mock you know a tight end to the Kansas City Chiefs at nine, but they're they're not taking him there. I think he'll last on the board longer than people think.
00:53:07
Speaker
little bit i don't dislike him it's just i think the position is kind of interesting this year where we have such a clear number one and then between them you could ask 50 different people that have watched the tight ends and they'll have 10 to 12 different guys that are their second favorite tight end in this class i think kind of the i think it really does kind of devalue the position right it's like well why am i spending a top 10 pick on some you know A tight end, you know yeah, he has better upside than a lot of the guys that are going to go on day two and three, but is the value of having this upside at tight end versus having this upside at edge rusher? right like That's what you're comparing it to, and a lot of these franchises just simply aren't going to take the big swing on tight end. So I think he falls a little bit lower than maybe some people think. And then as far as some guys that I'm lower on not really, honestly. I mean, my rankings are pretty...
00:53:57
Speaker
Consent on that consensus, but they're just jumbled around and they're not finalized yet. To be honest, we haven't seen any of the athletic testing scores finalized. So. once I have that in, I'll i'll kind of go in and, you know, have my rankings finalized. But right now, i'm trying to look at anyone that's – no one I'm really – I think Mel Kuyper has Eli Raritan from Notre Dame inside his top five tight ends, and I don't personally see that, but I haven't dug back into him yet. So there's some – I haven't touched Mel Kuyper's rankings since I was like 10. Exactly, exactly. But so you get the point, and it's like, okay, well –
00:54:33
Speaker
So that's a guy, yeah, that's a guy maybe that I'm a little lower on. But other than that, now my rankings are pretty consistent. I just think the class as a whole is is filled with tight end twos and tight end threes.
00:54:44
Speaker
I don't think there's very few. And that's why that's why we talk and we hype up the guys like Oscar Delph and Marlon Klein and these guys that have and Sam Rauch with huge upside, right? like That's what they are right now because as prospects just like looking at them on the field, you see glimpses of it. It's very inconsistent. We know tight end takes a long time to develop, takes a long time to pay off on your pick. So I'm just interested to see how this kind of shakes out, but I do think it ends up pushing the class down and there's a real run on tight ends come late day, late day two, early day three, we might see 10 to 12 tight ends go in a 40 pick range.
00:55:19
Speaker
And I think you kind of hinted at it, Taylor, where like if you're a team that needs a tight a bona fide tight end one, you might not find that in this class. Or you might have to artificially elevate a Sadiq up to your board kind of thing.
00:55:32
Speaker
But with the Packers, and you'll never know until you see the guys play. but All the initial reports are that Kraft expects to be as much of, if not completely himself, at you know in the coming coming off this surgery. So the luxury for the Packers is if you draft a guy and his see he reaches his ceiling of being Jake Ferguson, that's a home run pick for the Packers. Because if you're adding a Jake Ferguson impact behind Tucker Kraft,
00:56:03
Speaker
You can't ask for more than that out of this. And that's really what you're looking for. You're looking to complement what Kraft and your other top offensive weapons do, not you know be the the the skeleton key for your offense. So I think that there's you know there's layers of there's layers of nuance to what Green Bay is looking for. I do think, you know and I don't want to just say they just need bodies. They need more than that. But they're not looking for someone to, you know this isn't 2023 where it's like,
00:56:31
Speaker
it's the corpse of jimmy graham and nothing in the room you know like yes you have questions on what is craft going to be coming off surgery i do think he's going to mostly be himself once he's fully back but you know you don't know how long it'll take to be fully back and all that stuff but it does help that you're looking for compliment not answers at the but not like the answer at the position and that's a big difference in terms of You know, what needing to hit on a draft pick mean equates to at this point for a team moving forward.
00:57:05
Speaker
I've got one guy that if the Packers took him, I would go insane that i I absolutely would hate the pick. And I don't care what kind of career he would have. it just drove me nuts trying to watch him. Lake McCree out of out of USC. thought he was...
00:57:24
Speaker
Is he not going back to school? I'm sorry. I totally like i've lost track of who is and isn't. I thought I saw was... He could be going back, but i I don't know. He was in my little bit of film that I had, and every little thing I watched of him drove me nuts.
00:57:41
Speaker
So if that ended up being... If he's in this year's draft and he gets picked, I... No. No. Yeah, he's declared for the draft. Oh, okay. i would Maybe I was reading one of those he could come back kind of whatever and those kind of articles.
00:57:55
Speaker
Yeah, McCree... With him, it's so hard for me to say, like, there are things he does that I like. And then the other things I'm like, is it him? Is it because USC has had so many of these, this is the next USC quarterbacks in the past five years. And then they've all kind of like fallen off by the wayside and stuff. But yeah, I'm really curious to see like what he comes into as a pro. I don't,
00:58:23
Speaker
think he'll be a pack because I think he's a receiver only at this point. I have not been thrilled with his blocking. But at the same time, if they were to pick him, that would kind of signal you know sort of what Taylor was mentioning earlier. Like it would it would answer the question of like, what are they looking for at the position?
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah, I just when I watched him, his arms were flailing all over the place. He wasn't a great blocker and and stuff like that. And just it drove me nuts trying to watch him. And i was just like, no, no. So I only watched like half a tape and i was like, I'm done. He is one of those. It's like he when I watch him play he is the definition of a This guy was six foot one until like three years ago and he hasn't learned how to run in his new body like that's what he looks like to be like we've all played sports with guys like that where you're like This guy used to be one of the best athletes in our school and now he can't tie his shoes and walk at the same time kind of thing and stuff and yeah
00:59:24
Speaker
But Taylor, want to say thank you so much for joining us today. yeah Like Joe said, you know we appreciate you answering the bat signal and being willing to jump on with us. you know i really We really appreciate you taking time out of your day to come and talk tight ends. I know it's not the glamour position amongst all the draft spots, but Like you said, we're all three of us draft Knicks.
00:59:50
Speaker
This is a position that I honestly always like following every year. i don't like the class every year, but it's one of those where I like to so kind of like see where the class is at.
01:00:02
Speaker
on a given season because I'm kind of like, I want to see how all those guys pan out because like, if I'm like, I hate a certain class, but it's like, oh, like two of the guys became really good. What did I not get that made them good pros? And sometimes it's just like, oh, they just went to the perfect offense for them kind of thing. And they're still, all their flaws are still the same flaws, but like, you know, it's like the Travis Kelsey. It's like, he still can't block. He's still not really an inline tight end kind of thing. It's just like,
01:00:31
Speaker
He's gone to a team that's like just going to accentuate all of his positives and that's it kind of thing and stuff. So I am always curious to see like what this position, how this position pans out over the course of their rookie contracts and stuff. So yeah, just always really intriguing part of the draft process to me.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, I love the tight end position. It's great. They're like offensive linemen and wide receivers combined, right? Who doesn't love
Draft Trends: Tight Ends vs Running Backs
01:00:56
Speaker
that? i'll give you guys one draft note before we leave okay ready for this i use it on the draft professor this is big 2010 was the last time there was more tight ends drafted than running backs okay at like and at the combine there's only 21 running backs there's 27 tight ends at the combine So there is a likelihood that we see for the first time since 2010 more tight ends taken than running backs. That class for a reference, Rob Gronkowski, Ed Dixon, Toey Mowiaki, Jermaine Gresham, Jimmy Graham, Aaron Hernandez, Dennis Pitta.
01:01:30
Speaker
running backs in that class Ryan Matthews CJ Spiller job at best Dexter McCluster Toby Gerhardt there's some similarities there between this year and and that year in terms of the running back talent and the tight end talent so look for that draft note at the end of the draft because I think these being board tight ends drafted than running backs that's a really good point to bring up here specific one the last time the Packers took a tight end in the first round was 2000.
01:02:00
Speaker
Bubba! Bubba Franks out of Miami. that That was the last time. Not that they're going to be able to the next couple of years, but... i was going to say, they have no first, to that that that won't be in jeopardy. Just color us shocked if they do something to take a tight end in the first round. say opinion That would be insane. And just to just to go back to that draft class,
01:02:24
Speaker
Packers took one of each that season, and they were both kind of key figures in their Super Bowl run. That's because you took Andrew Corliss, who had to step in and become their tight end 1-2 behind Donald Lee after Jermichael Finley blew his knee out. And then James Starks was the suit the the playoff darling when he came off of Pup. in like week 16 to power the Packers run game. So again, you just never know how it's going to turn out.
01:02:53
Speaker
And like I said, like that's why tight end is one of those tipping point position groups in every draft class for me because it's like, You can just have a class where it's like, I don't like any of these guys. And then it's like, oh, George Kittle hit kind of thing and stuff. f Or it's like, oh, I like all these guys. And then all the day one and two picks sucked out of it. So it's like, okay, like what are we doing wrong here? but again I want to throw in this one thing because I've been seeing this brought up a lot and and kind in the draft professor's
01:03:26
Speaker
group chat, they were kind of talking about it a little bit, how players rise or fall or whatever with with the combine and, you know, is it more, you know, teams doing it, this or this.
01:03:39
Speaker
The guy that Kiwano keeps bringing up, George Kittle, the the combine is where people got to see what kind of tight end he was he didn't get drafted any higher but they got to see the athletic ability that he could put out there and that's why he's the tight end he is today is because he was able to show what he could do yeah at the combine yeah and i think the inverse of that is if you think about jatavian sanders he was the guy that was projected to go in the first round right leading up to the combine got to the combine saw some of those skills in the blocking techniques and the drills and in the catches and and running maybe the gauntlet those didn't translate and he ended up being a fourth round pick So both sides of the coin there, there are for tight ends. It's actually one of the positions that I think the combine does actually, you know, impact some things for draft. So like a lot of times, unless you're a receiver running in the four twos or whatever, you're vaulting up the border or corner, right? You're running that fast. You're you're shooting up the draft boards, but a lot of these other positions, offensive line, really defensive line. You know, linebacker, quarterback even quarterback, running back. like You kind of know where these guys are. are Like the big ones that change are wide receiver, corner, and I think tight end is another one as well.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think and I think it just speaks to something else you mentioned earlier, Taylor, where like college teams, there's only like a dozen maybe that understand how to you properly use a tight end. And so like there's some guys who just have so much untapped potential, but it's like I'm only on the field five snaps a game and I'm just standing in the slot. I'm not blocking. I'm not. doing anything i'm just a glorified tight slot receiver kind of thing so it it is one of those like you said guys can naturally they like everyone's like oh he's just you know he's just getting unnaturally elevated from the combine it's like no like no one knew he could actually form block and like he had the hip drive and form blocking technique like no one knew because he never was asked to do it in college and now nfl coaches are like oh
01:05:43
Speaker
He has the base technique. He's coachable. Like he did everything we asked him to. He understands line checks and defensive front movements and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, like it it it is a position that can get a guy bumped up a round or two because it's like,
01:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, how many teams know that he can do these four things that he'd never put on film in college? So it it is a position where guys can get vaulted up the board because, like like i said, they just never were asked to do it in college.
01:06:15
Speaker
But Taylor, Thank you so
Follow Taylor's Draft Insights
01:06:17
Speaker
much again. Where can we find all of your work? Yeah, you can find my stuff on X down there. That's my handle I put in my name. So you can you can find me on X. And yeah, that's where I post most of my draft stuff.
01:06:30
Speaker
Right on. Like I said, thank you again for joining us. Thank you for taking time out of your Sunday you know with our funky recording schedule. Joe, take us out. I'm still getting my marbles back after the trip. No worries. Just kind of a scheduling note. a Bonus episode with me talking to Terrence Parsons Jr. will be released Wednesday. So that's the Wednesday after this episode will come out. Check that out. Give us a like, subscribe, make sure you're you're turning your notifications and all that on so you know when a new episode drops.
01:07:03
Speaker
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01:07:17
Speaker
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01:07:30
Speaker
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01:07:44
Speaker
You know, Drop us questions, comments, concerns. We have been getting some weird comments and that one of these days I'm going fucking just do a call out and my my favorite segment is going to come back and then I'm just going to let a loose on these guys.
01:08:01
Speaker
You know, check us out on tick tock we are you know we have aaron doing a lot of tick tocks over there but i have been dropping clips of uh the episodes over there you know just support us you know we're we're trying to get a little bit bigger in the hemisphere we are doing some big things uh really appreciate talking to taylor talking to everybody else that we've had on here if you want more of that you know be sure to hit us up the bigger we get the more people we can get on here to talk with us and and you know go from there and get our stuff out there. you know It doesn't seem like it's that hard to do this, but it it does get to be a pain in the ass because you've got to work around schedules and everything else. you know Mike's been in the Philippines for the last two weeks, so you know it was kind of hard for him to get on and do anything and you know work schedules and all that stuff.
01:08:54
Speaker
So please let us know how we're doing. Review comments, questions, concerns. You know, we do appreciate any comments at all, even though some of them, like I said, have been assholes.
01:09:07
Speaker
But Mike, gopa go Pat go. aloha.