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Cold, Flat, Finished: Packers Drop the Finale in Minnesota
0 Playsin 1 hour
A rough way to close out the regular season. The Packers stumble against the Vikings in the finale, and we’re breaking down the missed opportunities, questionable decisions, and overall lack of juice. We talk standout performances, disappointing trends, and whether this loss is a warning sign—or just a bad day before the games really matter.
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Transcript
Intro
Packers' 2025 Season Review
00:00:56
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ohana Packers Edition podcast. Today, we're going to put more effort into closing out the Packers 2025 seasons than the the Green Bay Packers themselves did.
00:01:09
Speaker
Honestly, not a surprising step for the Packers to make. You know, we had our reservations about it. Yeah. But at the same time, it's understandable why they've chose to go the route they did. Given they they couldn't even not get injured in this freaking game, despite the fact that they sat so many guys. Looks like Javon Bullard escaped any sort of dramatic injury. You know, Hodkowitz was saying that he was sort of walking up and down the sideline and he had his helmet after he went into the blue tent.
00:01:39
Speaker
But Bo Melton was injured, and that's one of your important cover guys on punt. and kickoff coverage. So, you know, even when the Packers tried to, and Joe and I went into this last week, as much as everyone wants to say, oh, treat it like preseason game four, you can't because of the restrictions on the roster due to, you know, it's a regular season game. You don't have a 90 or 60 or whatever man roster. So,
00:02:06
Speaker
But, you know, that's kind of the stuff we scratch our head at. Joe and I were talking off camera about how this is not going to be a usual segment or a usual set of segments because there's just not enough from this craptastic game to put into our full segment section. So we're going to keep this one as tight and concise as possible. We will not do an opponent preview for the playoff game. So we'll go a little bit into who they're playing and we'll get everyone on their merry way.
NFL Season Structure Discussion
00:02:34
Speaker
But Joe,
00:02:36
Speaker
The 2025 regular season is over with a wet fart ending to it and let's just get off from there unless you've got any further thoughts you want to get into before we go over the game.
00:02:50
Speaker
no while you were talking, I was trying to catch up on a lot of things because, like I told Mike, before I hit the record button, i after the Packers game, I just kind of didn't watch any other football at all. Matter of fact, I went in, took like a half-hour nap, and called it good.
00:03:08
Speaker
But, i mean, it looks like most everybody else in the NFL treated this like a preseason game also. So that just sit makes me sit here and think,
00:03:18
Speaker
Why did we get rid of the fourth preseason game and add an extra game into the regular season if everybody's going to treat one game out of the regular season as a preseason game?
00:03:30
Speaker
Money. So, yeah but I mean, if if people if fans are going to start realizing, hey, this game doesn't mean jack shit to us, are they still going to you know pay the money to go to the game?
00:03:43
Speaker
I think the the TV deals are just such that that it doesn't matter. And the league's justification is going to be, if it's not the 17th game, it's going to be the 16th game, blah, blah, blah, that kind of crap. So that's... I agree with you. I think the season's too long. I think that the extra game is stupid. It makes the schedule so much... Like...
00:04:05
Speaker
i don't I don't think people appreciate how perfect the 16-game season was, where it really just... Everything did just fall into place in terms of you play Division 6 times, so you have 10 more games. then you play another and Then you play your non-conference division, so that's four games, so that gets you to 10 total games. Then you play the rotating conference division, and that gets you to 14 games. And how do you get to 16? You play that same finish in your the divisions that you're not playing, you know, between your your division and whatever division. So this year was the NFC East, so you play you the same finisher in this NFC West and the and NFC South.
00:04:44
Speaker
and adding that whole stupid finished the same place as you and the weird cross-conference division like that thing is a whole bunch of dumb. And then, yeah, like I, and then the whole, i know it doesn't matter because it's all by percentage points, but there was something always nice to the season ending in an even number, you know, like, I don't know why, but it does just, it kind of just makes more sense. I know some people were like, it's not a 10 or a five, but it did just look so much nicer with 16 games as opposed to seven, you know, a prime number and all that kind of stuff. It, Marisol's laughing at me going that nerdy on it, but I don't know i don't know why it just like irks me so much that like it's an odd number, it's a prime number, all that kind of crap, but i wont I won't go down that rabbit hole too much farther than that. That's more TLC than it deserves and and it deserves to get.
00:05:47
Speaker
i I got to say that I will watch the Packers in however many games there are. You know, if it's 16 games, whatever. If it's 28 games, fine. If it's 163 games like a baseball season, you know, I'll watch the Packers.
00:06:02
Speaker
But then if you're going to start adding more games to the season to a season, you're going to have to make changes to something to make games more...
00:06:16
Speaker
valuable so and so you don't have 90 you well basically 100 of your team's not taking one week of the regular season because Like today with with the Vikings, you know the only reason they played certain players on the Vikings team was because it was potentially their last time in a Vikings uniform. The only reason they played McCarthy at quarterback for the longest time was because they felt like he needed as many snaps as he could yeah get.
NFL Division and Schedule Restructuring
00:06:50
Speaker
So if that means you're going to have to change divisions, make division you know take away, let's say, instead of northeast southwest you move you break it down to three divisions where you have more divisional teams in each division and then you can you know okay so instead of just having eight games let's let's say you break it down to
00:07:25
Speaker
how do i want to say this you break it down to like Each team has has an extra or each division has an extra team to it. So instead of eight meaningful games a year for rivalries, you're going to have 10 extra, you know, 10 games a year as a rival as rivalries.
00:07:44
Speaker
So right there, you just solve 10 out of your 18 weeks. So I don't know. I spitballing, you know, obviously we're not going to get much done because we don't have multi-billion dollars to feed into Roger Goodell's pocketbook to make changes. but i it It really was gross to see a preseason-style game in January.
00:08:13
Speaker
Literally, the only game that was played for keep... I guess the the first game of the week and the last game of the week were the only two where there was any sort of playing for keeps. And even then, like...
00:08:26
Speaker
Only the Steelers-Ravens game, actually, the outcome of it mattered in terms of who made it or who did. Because even that Bucs-Panthers game, it mattered. who it like it It was important for Tampa Bay to win, but they didn't even like it wasn't even like if they won, they were in. kind of They're not in. you know They won that game on Saturday.
00:08:46
Speaker
but they're still out of the playoffs because the Saints lost to the Falcons or some shit like that and a couple other things. So, like, when there's just no stakes anymore. And I think the fact that there's only one bye in each conference, like, that's why the Bears and the Eagles, you know everyone was kind of, like, joking on the Bears that they're like, oh, they're not trying because they don't want to play Green Bay a third time kind of thing. And then the Eagles also were like, fuck it.
00:09:14
Speaker
Like, we're not playing anyone. like And it did just look weird because the Eagles were like, Hertz and Saquon are not playing, whereas the Bears were like, Caleb's playing, but we're not really calling it. Like, it was such a weird way to approach it. And yeah, I agree with you. It it was...
00:09:33
Speaker
It's an eyesore that, and I get that, yeah, the league, quote unquote, got it right that they put Steelers, Ravens as the latin you know the coup de grace at the end of week 18.
00:09:44
Speaker
But it was such a slog to get there. And the fact that we're talking about every other team but the Packers just shows how bad the Packers game was. But, you know, let's not let's not bury the lead any further. Let's just get into this one. And like I said, we'll get through season.
00:10:03
Speaker
embarrassment of a game, piss poor effort, whatever you want to call it. Let's just get through it and then we'll sort of highlight the playoff matchup. yeah I can't even call it piss poor... oh What was the word you used? Piss poor... Embarrassment. Yeah, I don't even... like I'm just throwing those... I'm literally... My brain is working like a three-word generator because I don't even... Like you said, i get what you're saying is that...
00:10:30
Speaker
i I can't even necessarily call it an embarrassment by the Packers because LeFleur said like all week, yeah, we're not risking the really important guys. And I know people are going to say like, oh, then why did Jaden replay? Well, yes, he's really important. Yeah. One, he had to. And two, it's like, it's,
00:10:51
Speaker
justifiable in the sense that it's like he's missed like two-thirds of the season, so he's got to play. And like like out of all the guys, he's the one that it's like, okay, like he does need more live reps than even Christian who has played two months straight of football kind of thing and stuff. So... Well, I was just reading an article that I was wanting to make sure I didn't miss it. And when you were talking about injuries, I didn't miss any. I knew the bowler and I knew the melt. And i was like, what other one is he talking about?
00:11:19
Speaker
But that ended up being it. And they even said it in there. The only reason Jaden Reed played was because Bo Melton went down. Yeah. So yeah, but like I said, with it being a preseason game, you're looking at all preseason players out there. Jaman Johnson, Jalen Simpson, Jonathan Baldwin, Catan Oladapo, Tyron Hopper, Shamar Bartholomew. I mean, guys that...
00:11:47
Speaker
we're were bubble players as is during the regular preseason, let alone in week 18. So, I mean, they had some bright spots.
00:11:59
Speaker
I thought Chris Brooks and Emmanuel Wilson did pretty solid for the the makeshift offensive line that they had going. Brooks especially, because he looked really explosive, and I didn't think that was part of his game Yeah, especially earlier this season where it's kind of like, is he injured? kind of Like, there there was sort of that, you're like, oh, like, he's laboring to get one yard on any play kind of thing and stuff. And,
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. You know, wilson's date Wilson's numbers are crooked because he had that funky negative 16-yard rush. Okay, this is to Emmanuel Wilson. Emmanuel, you have done great so far this year, but when you get handed the ball, you don't run backwards. Yeah.
00:12:45
Speaker
Run forward. Even the two guys in NFL history who were like, it's okay if they do it, you didn't want them to do it. you know like Even Barry didn't go that far. No.
00:12:59
Speaker
mean, Barry was one of the few that could legit cut one way, run all the way around, then turn around and run all the way back and get positive yards. But he didn't zigzag and cut back and forth a hundred different times. No.
00:13:14
Speaker
yeah I guess my my bright spot is going to be the two rookie pass rushers. It's just good to see... you know i know that Minnesota's not exactly putting out their top-line offensive line players, but it's still good to see Sorrell have production. He looked like a menace.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah. I thought Oliver had several good snaps in there. And then... I don't think he'll be back next season unless like nobody else is interested. But, you know, it's nice to see Cox. Like I said, people are making a lot out of it.
00:13:49
Speaker
The thing I'll give him credit for is when he has opportunities, he's converting his opportunities into sacks or negative plays for the most part.
Player Performances and Contracts
00:13:58
Speaker
the play he made, like, when you watch the the highlight of it it, it happens because Brosmer has no idea where he is on the field. He trips over his left tackle. He does the the peppy hair, do a barrel roll in the middle of a play. But good on Cox to, like, and you can see him size it up where he's, like...
00:14:20
Speaker
I'm going to wait for him to stand back up, and then I'm going to pop him and knock the ball out and good on Sorrell to be there to get the recovery. So, you know, like you said, it's hard to say how much of that is real, how much of that isn't, but it's still good to see guys make plays when the opportunities are there for them to make plays.
00:14:40
Speaker
I'm pretty sure Minnesota still had most of their starting off offensivee out offensive line out there, didn't they? Because they were having to protect JJ. I think they sat Derrissaw. Of course, I don't know how healthy or not healthy Derrissaw is at this point. I don't know if O'Neal played either, but I think the interior was all the starters.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, was going to say, because there's no way you would would want to put password. Oh, no, I lied. O'Neal is playing. Yeah, you're right. So it was everyone but Derrissaw. I was going to say, if you're going to start your who you think is going to be your franchise quarterback, there is no way in hell you're going not put out at least the majority of your starting offensive line. And it still didn't even help because he ended up re injuring his is frigging. That was his throwing hand. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:34
Speaker
Well, that's the hand that was injured going into it. Oh, that's right. You're right. Yeah. He bounced it off of who were they playing, bounced it off the helmet and had that micro fracture. And then it looked like he did it again in this game. So, yeah, not too smart from O'Connell on that one.
00:15:53
Speaker
And then my only other one was, and I sarcastically, but not really sarcastically tweeted it, Whelan. Whelan was the MVP, honestly. You know, like, I think he punted it. had make for all that time that he didn't punt during the other games. Oh, God, yeah. And, you know, I think he had, what did he have, three or four that were down inside the 20 kind of thing and stuff? No, he had five of his eight punts were inside the 20.
00:16:21
Speaker
And he had 68. Averaged 53.9 gross. Yep. Nice day at the office, Dan. And i you know, I just, I forgot to touch on a couple the guys that you were talking about. Sorel look, like I said, he looked like a menace out there. I'm glad he did get credited with one sack. I guess I must've blocked that one out of my mind or something.
00:16:47
Speaker
now what you said about brenton though out of either enigbare or brenton cox oh yeah brenton is brought back because i think they can get him a little bit cheaper Yeah, I just i bring that more up in the, like, there so he's going to be a restricted free agent. They're not going to tender him because they're, like... They might do an original.
00:17:07
Speaker
Maybe, but that is, I think it's, like, $3 million or something. And I could see them being, like, you know what? If he gets something, oh, well. Because they're not going to get it. They're not going to match a deal. Like, that's the whole thing, right? Is, like, they're not going to match a deal, but...
00:17:24
Speaker
You're right. they They might just do it. But I think that therere would they would rather just let him go. And then, like, if he's not signed anywhere else, he comes back for, like, a true vet minimum kind of thing. I don't want to say... I agree with you. It's more likely he's back than in Nagbari. But I don't think it's as guaranteed because I don't...
00:17:44
Speaker
I just think that they're going to see other positions that they have to make moves at. you know The whole situation with what do they do with Trevon Diggs and all that kind of stuff. that's goingnna you know They're going to need money there. The good thing about him is everything that I read is his contract is...
00:18:02
Speaker
is 100% not guaranteed. Yeah, it's it's totally... The $15 million is totally p s money at this point. But at even, you know, they're going to have to give him...
00:18:15
Speaker
real money of some kind kind of and you know the the place i'd start is the thing that they were going to try and sign jair to you know the four million eight million thing or whatever the hell it was and stuff it's going to depend on what he does because they took on the rest of his contract which is another three years right so he has all his guaranteed was paid by jerry before releasing right So if the Packers want to hang on to him for what his current costs are, they can do that. And they don't have to make a decision on him until whenever they want to make a decision because they don't have any hard deadlines on him. you know like Like some contracts were, well, if you don't make this decision by this time, then this portion becomes fully guaranteed. Or if you don't make this decision by this time, then so-and-so, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:04
Speaker
So they could wait until all the way up until... They got the whole preseason basically to figure it out. Yeah. So, you know, if they can fit his contract in to the salary cap this year, then you got to believe they they can handle the money next year.
00:19:24
Speaker
yeah Am I thinking on that right? No, I think you're right. Like I said, I'm more just saying it is money. you have to You're earmarking money there kind of thing. Right. mean, they could come back and say, okay, well,
00:19:36
Speaker
we're not going to do this number, but if you want to restructure or re-sign a deal or whatever on that. But like I said, they can literally wait until the end of the preseason to see how he's doing. And like I said, my my reason i bring up Diggs because that's why I think that Cox and his... tendering him as an rfa i think that's so far down the list would i be surprised if they do it not at all but at the same time here you go i'm i'm disagreeing with you on that because think about it you're losing both him and igbari who knows what they're going to do with rashaun are they keeping him are they getting rid of him you know so that you know mike is going to be out for for a good portion of
00:20:20
Speaker
the year i mean maybe not into the season but at least the good portion of all the workouts and pre-season and that i mean to kind of go on a side note i was really weirded by when he was showing his pictures of of physical therapy because when i went through my shit i didn't even start physical therapy until like two weeks after the surgery I think it i think that just should it's one of those representations of like how different it is when this is your livelihood kind of thing. When you're us regular Joe Schmoes, it's like, OK. Similar thing for like my Achilles surgery, where it's like, you're the boot.
00:21:01
Speaker
you're in the you're in the boot you know you Well, that's what I mean. They didn't even have them in a brace. And, you know, they had me in a sock to make sure that swelling didn't happen.
00:21:11
Speaker
You know, one of them full leg socks. And I had to have my knee brace on 24 seven. Yep. So he's not even in a brace. He's just using a frigging TENS unit.
00:21:24
Speaker
And I know that it's probably back on when he's not at rehab and stuff, but you're right. Like it is just, it it is night and day different how us regular Joe blows are with our rehab, you know, when you're just a high school athlete kind of thing. And then, when you're a professional athlete who, like I said, that is your livelihood, you know, It just is a stark difference. But yeah, you know, we don't know what's going to happen to Rashawn. They're going to have to make a decision on Lucas's fifth year option this year, this offseason. You know, and like I said, that's why and, you know, you talked about how the Vikings needed to give McCarthy snaps. I'm glad that they were like, OK, Colin, you're healthy. And, you know, Sorrell has gotten...
00:22:06
Speaker
rotational You know, deep rotational s snaps the whole season, but it was good to for them to just be like, okay, you're the answer for the whole like game kind of thing. The three of you go do it and credit to all three of them for making things happen. And like I said, you know, I can poo poo like how,
00:22:23
Speaker
real cox's like production stats are and stuff but he does deserve credit for converting his opportunity you know like it is the whole it's the kyler fackrell like he has like a shit pressure rate but he converts sacks on like us you know he's hitting dingers all the time when he does get contact kind of thing he just whiffs a lot i guess what i was just saying is i don't think it's a complete 100 guarantee he's not coming back right no and i agree with you because they're because of the uncertainty of what's going into the season i do think he's he would be a little bit cheaper to keep than what an enigbare oh no i definitely agree with you there and we'll we'll go further into this when the season's truly over all that kind of stuff but
00:23:07
Speaker
yeah But I will say Colin Oliver really was, and I hate saying this just because I know that's the nickname he's been given and all that, but he was looking like a baby Micah out there just with some of, not necessarily in production wise,
00:23:22
Speaker
But you could see the jump. yeah You could see the... The way they can utilize him and the way he bends off the line of scrimmage and stuff. and That's the thing. is like When you draft a guy like Oliver who isn't really a linebacker, isn't a true defensive end, you have to kind of just say, like okay, just... you know it is the like It's like in Ready Player One when like H hands Chucky to... to pars of all and it's just like just throw it like that's literally what you have to do with a guy like oliver is like just huck him out the window and let him go do his thing and you know when we were in the pre-season we were like talking about all the the the parsings rumors one of the jokes i made was
00:24:01
Speaker
good and at the time it was because we assumed that the price for biker would not be two first and a guy you were gonna cut next year kind of thing we were assuming it was gonna be a like five first round picks like you know how many of them are swaps and stuff and so ricky williams style right and that was when i made the joke that good would be like okay cool thanks but i have a i have a a parsons at home kind of thing and people were like they're not the same. I'm like, that they're not the same, but the point is the cost is so prohibitive that any good GM is like, okay, like at what point do we draw the line?
00:24:38
Speaker
But like you said, we're not trying to put him on the same the same pedestal nowhere near it but he is he's not on that tier yet but he shows what he can where he is similar to micah where like i said the get off on from the snap the pursuit afterwards the disruption he can kind of have against the line are similar to what micah brings to the table it so if he can learn from micah we could have two micahs on the team Right, exactly. And it allows you it allows Halfley to do some of the stuff he was doing all season with Micah.
00:25:13
Speaker
Like we said, Oliver's not going to be nearly as good, but you can do some of the same stuff. And then even going into next season, if Oliver's healthy, in that, you know, I know Micah's saying that he's going to be ready week one and stuff, but the realistic thing is he's probably going to be back closer to the end of September. So in the medium, it's like, okay, how much havoc can you just...
00:25:35
Speaker
say, call it, just go screw things up for the opponent kind
Game Debuts and Rookies
00:25:38
Speaker
of thing. So, right like you said, it's good to see that. But otherwise, anything else stand out to you as good from this game? You know, I know people are going to kind of poo poo me on this a little bit, but it was nice to see some action out of the defensive line. Yeah, they still gave up, you know, 94 yards to Mason and 23 yards to Chandler and that, but they weren't just completely getting pushed out of the play either.
00:26:14
Speaker
You know, they were at least putting, there was some pressures to it. And, you know, I'm glad to see Jonathan Ford back because I always liked how he had that quick first step off the line and you could kind of see it with this punch.
00:26:30
Speaker
Was it 100% successful? No, but he doesn't have a Devante Wyatt next to him to, you know, help out on certain things. So if they can maybe bring him back next year and see what he can do with a healthy Devante,
00:26:47
Speaker
You know, maybe that could be an interesting thing. But I thought Brinson looked good. Stackhouse was, you know, so-so on that. Maybe he, you know, realized that I can't just get by being a big body. I'm going to have to actually put some effort into some things.
00:27:06
Speaker
oh He's got to tackle better. That going to be one of my my bad things. is like He has so many plays where he's like, stops or, you know, tackle for loss or stop chances. And it's just like, guy bounces right off him kind thing. And like...
00:27:21
Speaker
you can't You can't be a fringe like specialty roster player kind of thing and like not be able to tackle. So it is one of those like, Right. And like I said, I'm not saying that, oh my god, this is an amazing defensive line. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
It was just good to see better play out of them than you know almost 300 yards and four touchdowns for one person. Yeah. other than that, asked really, no. I don't think there's much else that I can – i Let's just flip it and go to the blah already. like Like I said, we don't need to drag out the review of this game. It doesn't deserve it.
00:28:05
Speaker
I know a lot of people are going to throw Clayton Toon in there, and yes, he did not look good, but you got to understand the situation he's been thrown He was handed he was handed a soggy, moldy ham sandwich of a game plan. They they made it clear that they were trying to sim to end this game as much as possible.
00:28:24
Speaker
Like, On one hand, it's a little discouraging when you see a guy and it's like, oh, like he can't process. and yeah But at the same time, it's like he had like two and a half professional NFL wide receivers out there. And one of them got hurt.
00:28:39
Speaker
And he was getting pressured constantly. Yeah, they were playing the the D-League O-line. I thought Munk looked okay at center. That was the only bright spot. Everything else, I was like, ugh. Morgan looked like shit.
00:28:55
Speaker
yeah he was getting blown up constantly oh i didn't think canard was horrible uh i don't know who was playing the i think the only starter they had out there was belton wasn't it i think so who was playing left guard then I forget already. Was it Smith? I think it was Lucita Smith. It could have been. Okay. Yeah, that was not fun.
00:29:24
Speaker
But like I said, I can't put everything on Toon. I do have to say that I think it was Carlos said this on Twitter when I just kind of was skimming through that Toon has a way too long wind up to throw.
00:29:40
Speaker
So if he can maybe get that figured out, maybe it would have been a little bit of a better situation for him.
00:29:51
Speaker
But there you go. you You don't know until... Let's see what happens when he gets a full offseason in. You know, this wasn't like a Malik situation where they had to...
00:30:06
Speaker
oh oh you know i'm trying to think of a word to say they they basically had to pump him full of information in two weeks to get him available to start last year this wasn't that with tune tune has been riding the practice squad bench for the majority of the season and he's a throwing arm he's a practice throwing arm like let's let's be honest about what he is Can you imagine what the conversation was in the locker room when they say, hey, Toon, you're starting. Yeah. And and the like you know the uproar, like, why does Jordan have a helmet, blah, blah, blah. I do think that's the whole. They had to.
00:30:48
Speaker
And like Malik couldn't play. you You're not signing the other. You're not signing Ritter to the f freaking reg the roster. If you thought Toon was playing bad, put Ritter up there who hasn't even been in the system for two days.
00:31:03
Speaker
And it is the whole, like, I do think there is some value to Love going through the mental reps. Like, he can be in on the play call sequencing and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, it it goes back to 2011 when it was like Aaron called the game for Flynn and stuff like that. Or he would, I don't think he called it, but he was relaying the calls to Flynn or whatever. I think they said he made some of the calls. didn't call don't think he called the whole game. But, yeah, i I think it was more he relayed the whole game. And then it was like, Aaron, call a play here and there kind of thing and stuff. I do think there is value in that. you know like
00:31:37
Speaker
We'll see you next week. I've seen some people take shots at LeFleur and all that kind of stuff. On one hand, it is sort of like, why not try and like wing it around kind of thing and stuff. it Like said, the one would have been like, just pump 10 targets to Golden.
00:31:55
Speaker
But on the other side of this, we saw this O-line try to play. It sucked. And the other side of it too is it's like, he very so clearly... Like I said, he had Sim to End stamped on his forehead and it was like...
00:32:09
Speaker
you know, every time I run it three times into the line for nothing, that's two minutes off the clock. So like, why am I going to do things that potentially take that away from me? And even the golden was a little rough today. I don't know. of he had two drops. Like, and he, like he hadn't dropped the pass all season and like dropped like a short one over the middle and like a sort of screen. And he knows the quarterback they played together at Houston and Yep, that was – I know he was backing up like – I know he was backing up. He was behind like Tank Dell and Sammy Brown. But like you like you you're right. He played with him. But, you know, a lot of these drafting the draft gurus are coming out of the wordworks to say like, and that's why, you know, you can't draft a guy as unproductive in college as Golden in the first round.
00:32:59
Speaker
That's a whole bunch of bullshit too. like They just want to play the gotcha with the Packers because Goody can't pick first round players to save his life. It's funny because the ones I'm seeing aren't even Packers people. The Packers people are more upset that, like, why didn't he get to play more? You know, like, his the the they're they're more upset about, like, at LeFleur on that side than, like, Goot for picking him. It's all the, like, your Marcus Moser types, the, like, the a couple of the, like, Viking fan ones, the Viking writer ones and stuff. And it's, like...
00:33:34
Speaker
Like I said, i' put it on a couple different threads and tweet strings and stuff. And it's like, this isn't 2006 where you traded Javon Walker and you're walking into the season with Donald Driver, Robert Ferguson, and...
00:33:51
Speaker
Oh, Greg Jennings. like It's like, Greg Jennings, who do you have to beat out for substantial snaps? Robert Ferguson. Oh, so you mean he you mean Greg Jennings is the starter? You mean the shell of Robert Ferguson? Because wasn't that after he got his head taken off by... That was that was when he got that was when he said he got LASIK and he was going to be a better player because he can actually see now kind of thing or whatever.
00:34:14
Speaker
And then... this is Yeah, but wasn't that after he got his head taken off by Donovan Darius and it changed his game completely? Yep. And then this isn't 2023 where you have your two vets are, you know, you second-year players in Dobbs and Watson, and they both get injured in the preseason. So it's like...
00:34:32
Speaker
oh, these rookies were going to have big roles, but now they have to have big roles kind of thing. And, you know I see some people that say, like, why didn't he get all the reads now? Because they weren't grooming him to be Jaden Reed's role. He's supposed to play on the perimeter and stuff. And that answer is not going to satisfy everyone. even have some, like, okay, you should have rotated him in a little bit more. But also it gets into the –
00:34:58
Speaker
and And people are blasting LaFleur and Stenevich for like, oh, you talk so glowingly about it, but why don't you play him? And I'm like, they're not going to come out and say like, he fucks up mentally every game and that's why we're not good. you know But I said, you go to you go to jt you go to the QB school videos and you go to Dusty and Dusty is as positive and ho-hum as they come. And Dusty every week is like, Matthew Golden fucked up this play. Matthew Golden ran the wrong route on a couple more plays. Yeah, you get and like you you whether he's on Packaday, whether he's on Cheesehead TV, whether he's on whatever. He's always like tempering x because he's like he's like, you see the you see the plays that he makes that everyone's like, oh, my God, he needs to catch the ball. more you know He needs to be more involved. and he's like, and then you see him run the wrong way after he catches a screen pass. He's, you know,
00:35:51
Speaker
running the wrong route on the throw to so to open the Dallas game and stuff. You've got so many plays. You know, the Cincinnati game where he makes the three plays that help win that game. There's other plays in there where it's like you can tell Jordan's like, where the fuck did he go? stuff so like And I'm not worried. Those are all things that come when you're like, here's this playbook that's the size of two Bibles and learn it. like And to kind of play devil's advocate on that, though,
00:36:21
Speaker
when you're only getting limited playing time you don't have the opportunity to learn from your mistake right yeah and i think and i think the other side of it is like i said i i do have some complaints on that side because it's not like how do i word this It's not From the a jackass. It's not like anyone, what not Watson, Reed, or Kraft are game-breakingly great. like I'm one of the biggest Romeo Dobbs defenders on here. And like the Dallas game was cool. like He had some big catches early on and stuff. And I know he had a couple highlight plays against the Ravens. But it's like, we know what Romeo
Coaching and Strategy Critiques
00:37:08
Speaker
is. He's like a two or three...
00:37:11
Speaker
golden ceiling is way higher. Like it is. Yeah. And so I agree with you. It, it, it's sort of similar to the, like, should 38 year old Donald driver really have been playing over a rookie Randall Cobb in 2012 kind of thing. It's in that realm of like, are we being negligent or, you know, are we serving a greater purpose? And,
00:37:35
Speaker
You know, those are things to be seen. And I'm hoping that the discussion we're having is like, fuck, look how good Golden is. He should have done. But, you know, I just hope that we're having those conversations next year. But not going to beat that dead horse. Like I said, this circles back to how mad do you want to be at LeFleur for this game?
00:37:55
Speaker
I'm not even gonna waste the energy on that this week like He told us what the game plan was gonna be if he could petition for a running clock he would have and And then on the Halfly side of it, he had a, forget like a crooked deck, he had an incomplete deck that was, like half of it was half of it was standard poker cards, half of it was Uno, and like interspersed in there he had some Magic the Gathering cards too that don't even help like...
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah, I can't like on the coaching side, it's like what it is, the like we told you what we're going to do. What do you really want us to do side of it? So and The only other one that I want to talk about real quick is I don't think Jacoby Keene James is the answer by any means. He he didn't look comfortable receiving punts. He bobbled a couple times and he didn't look like, I mean, to be honest, it could have been his coverage, but he just didn't look like he could read lanes very well either.
00:39:07
Speaker
so i i don't know that's just me if somebody else could have completely different uh opinion on it but i just i didn't think he was that great out there in his limited time i want to see him in the offense in the offseason like i said i think oh i'm not even talking about the offense i'm just talking special teams because that's what he was basically brought up to be was more the special teams type guy to fill in for savi on Yeah, so we'll see. Well, and also, that that's the Basaccia side of it. So I i don't even know. i like Again, I'm not even wasting energy on that discussion. but and I want to yell at Tyron Hopper.
00:39:49
Speaker
How the hell do you let yourself get frigging stiff-armed? I mean, that was sick. i did You need to hang your head in shame. I've been pushing for you all year, and you give me that? Yeah.
00:40:01
Speaker
I think like there's so many people who are so like, oh, Kueh is done, blah blah, blah, Hopper's ready. I'm like, no, he's not. The fact, like I keep going back to The fact that they put Christian Welch in the Detroit game over Hopper says all you need to know about where Hopper legitimately stands on this on this team.
00:40:22
Speaker
like The only concern right now is currently, did Kueh price himself out of Green Bay? You know...
00:40:32
Speaker
It's one of those where I'm kind of like looking at it and I kind of just shake my head where I'm like, if they're trying to say we're going to pay you less than what the fifth year option would have be would have been, I'm like, okay, good and ball. Like, you've got to get over your stupid asses on that kind of thing. Because it's like, why wouldn't he start negotiating there? And if you're like going way below, like... Now, if that was where they started out at the beginning of the season...
00:41:02
Speaker
I could see them trying to give him less than the fifth year option at the beginning of a season because he only had a so-so year. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And whatever. But now, like I said, has he priced himself out of Green Bay? Because he's going to definitely get more than what the fifth year option was going to pay him with the way he played alongside Edge this year. Not if you ask half this fan base, but whatever. Well, yeah, never mind. We won't go into that too much. Other than that, I thought Trayvon in his limited time was decent. It was nice to see a corner actually tackle.
00:41:39
Speaker
And, you know, in his limited snaps, he had two throws near him, and, you know, one was incomplete and the other one went short. So,
00:41:52
Speaker
You know, I got to give it to him. I'm all for bringing it, keeping him going into next season. yeah i know that a lot of people are saying things to like back up their, their takes on how, you know, he was an overrated corner and all that kind of stuff.
00:42:11
Speaker
That's fine. And I i agree. like he kept It's the same thing we were talking about like this past offseason where it's like, Nate Hobbs can't be the only thing you do. Gambling on Trevon Diggs finding himself is not the only is can't be the only thing the Packers do. But why not keep that lottery ticket in your back pocket? Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
But here's the thing. If you told me at the beginning of the season that the two moves that they were going to make at the beginning of the season was Nate Hobbs and Trayvon Diggs, I'd probably been happy about it. Yeah, because Trayvon's this out of this world amazing guy. But that means there's two more bodies in that group. Right. And that was the thing is we were like, it can't be just Hobbs. You had to do something else with that corner room. And you didn't draft anyone and you didn't sign another guy. Well, it did, but not like. Yeah, nothing. Not one that matters. You know, like.
00:43:09
Speaker
Not in a round where where a player would matter kind of thing. Right. But I mean, yeah, in a limited time, I'm hoping that when we're playing the majority of our starters in the first playoff game that, you know, I say majority because obviously Mike is not going to be back in time for the frigging playoff game and stuff like that. But yeah.
00:43:36
Speaker
I feel at this moment, I say I could feel comfortable having digs and Nixon out there with Carrington in the background. Yep.
00:43:47
Speaker
I agree with you. Like, why not? Like just swings at the, pet the pinata at this point. I mean, we can start talking about the playoff game. There's not much to talk about because Bears obviously again and you know, they have the formula. That's the thing is like they they know exactly what they need to do to beat them.
00:44:10
Speaker
First off, don't get concussed, Jordan. like they were if Basically, every drive that the the Packers have played with Jordan on the field, they have moved the ball substantially on Chicago. like i know there was the three and out coming out at halftime in the first game and all that kind of stuff. But by and large, when Jordan's been on the field for the Packers, they have moved the they have boat raced this Chicago defense up and down the field.
00:44:34
Speaker
so don't let Jordan don't like if Austin Booker gets a clean shot, someone take his, the i'm not even joking. Just take his fucking knees out at this point. He wants to play dirty. Then it's an eye for an eye. And if future hall of fame players don't want to accept that what he's doing is dirty, that's shame on you. And like, don't like why? I don't understand why former players take the side of like needing to,
00:45:01
Speaker
defend stupid and like, like it's dangerous play for both players. like like Well, that's how we did it in our day. So everybody should have to do it. Right. And like you said, the fact that Howie Long was like, that was fucking dirty. Like for Howie Long to stand up or to sit there on national TV and be like, that was fucking dirty. yeah Like he was, like you said, Howie was living. Like he wasn't just like, Oh, i think that was just, That play, he was talking about the whole rest of the frigging first half. Yeah, I appreciated that how he wasn't just like, oh, yeah, I think it was dirty. He was like that is unacceptable. Like how he was like, how he was pulling out the thesaurus and the dictionary for all the big words on why you can't allow players to play like that anymore. But I'm serious. like And Strahan, if you do happen to say see this, I would say this to your face. So you can frigging bite me on that.
00:45:55
Speaker
I've said a lot worse to people. he's He's too busy. He's too busy complaining about how he's too busy complaining about how of what's his face? Miles Garrett had an extra game to break his record. Well, I also this was a shot at him when he was still playing when He told it's a very famous clip where he was getting into it with a journalist and well, if you're going to come at me, you might as well look me in my eyes and say it And that's the truth. I would have no problems telling you to your face that you're wrong. And those were dirty. Those were dirty hits.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yep. So, like, just keep Jordan clean and you'll win this game. I don't want to say by a lot because i don't i don't have much confidence in this defense stopping a nosebleed at this point. but I don't know. we're goingnna have a a It's going to come down to, like I've talked to before throughout the rest of the season, the inactives list. You you saw what Baron Sorrell could do. He can't be inactive this game. Yeah.
00:46:59
Speaker
oh What was the other one? i think Oliver's got to play. I think he's got athleticism out there. You know, especially to chase down Williams. that yeah That's what was hurting this when Micah was out.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yep. so it'll be like i agree with you yeah i agree with you it'll be really interesting to see what they do fucking queshawn that's like that's two games where you fucked us because you like stopped playing on a play kind of thing i'm wondering if this if trayvon even shows like half of what we hope for him if that may put a fire under Keyshawn because Keyshawn's only got what a year or two left on his contract one more year one more year so this is going to say Keyshawn if you really think that you're a number one corner you better show it or you better hope somebody else believes in you
00:47:58
Speaker
and so yeah uh but yeah definitely just tackle better make sure i i don't know i'm not overly concerned with their run game because i think the packers have been able to hold their run Their best... I've said it all season. Even when like they were playing the run well, you know the counting stats versus the analytics or advanced stats, you know that whole thing. But like the best run defense... And this is where it gets into the whole LaFleur thing.
Management and Team Dynamics
00:48:32
Speaker
you got You're not going to do it because it's the playoffs. You should do it in this game. Your goal should be to score 30-plus every game. Like...
00:48:40
Speaker
You know, I know you and i you have the joke that he coaches like he only has 600 points a season. Westendorf and Well, now you got points to spare. Yeah, I know, right? Westendorf and I, you know, Westendorf completely agrees with your assessment. And the thing that we keep going back and forth on is, like, the killer instinct. He just doesn't have it or he has never shown to truly have it. And,
00:49:04
Speaker
you know, the thing that I'll keep going back to is you know And I've seen all the people who say, like, it would be stupid for the Packers not to keep him next year, all that kind of stuff.
00:49:15
Speaker
That Robert Sala comment from three years ago gets truer and truer and truer every game you watch this team play. You take them out to deep water and you know that they're going to drown. Even the games they win, two-thirds of them are, like, the most...
00:49:35
Speaker
butt-clenching, excruciating, ulcer-inducing games possible. Boy, do you get away with words. Hey, I'm an engineer, but it's like,
00:49:47
Speaker
it It is the whole, you know, we said it all off-scene and the season. Three of the four coaches in the – three of the four head coaches in the division will go out there wanting to – you know, with the mindset on some level that, like, part of their five-step plan to victory is we're going to embarrass the opponent.
00:50:05
Speaker
And Matt's the only one that is like, we're going to win our way, which is we're going to – we're going to just get a lead and we're going to bleed the clock out kind of – and people can say, like, I'm being facetious with – When has he shown otherwise? Like they' they're the opportune and, you know, people are like, oh, but he's never lost to McVay. Even those games have all been like one score games late and then we score a touchdown to go up double digits kind of thing. my Maybe the dallas Dallas playoff game a couple of years ago. Right.
00:50:36
Speaker
and And even that wasn't all like. I this is going to sound, but like that's with Dak throwing two interceptions in the first half kind of thing. Like there were things in there that are not under LeFleur's control kind of thing. Like, you know you you're up.
00:50:52
Speaker
you're up 20 to nothing after the the... And that's the thing is, you get though the play before the Darnell Savage interception return. You're up 20 to nothing, and seven of those points are off of a pick that you get the ball on, like, the five-yard line or something like that. And it's like, you're dominating, but are you really dominating? You know, like, that kind of thing where it's like, if Dallas goes down and scores, it's a two-score game, and they get the ball first and all that kind of crap. And it's like...
00:51:22
Speaker
Okay, like, how in control of a game are you truly in control of it with LeFleur as your head coach kind of thing? Because the way that he tries to nibble at the margins, it's like, you leave yourself where one fuck up and it's like, oh, you're losing now.
00:51:39
Speaker
like And that's the thing. is like he He coaches like an old-school NL bunt-and-move-em-over team. And and like we're not going to go for strikeouts. We're going to pitch to contact. And we're going to bunt guys over. And it's like you don't have Greg Maddox any anymore, who was a strikeout pitcher for...
00:52:00
Speaker
yeah yeah I'm a Braves fan. Yeah. like Let's be real. like You don't have Glavin, Maddox, and Smoltz in your arsenal. you know you You got maybe one of them at this point. And then on offense, it's like,
00:52:17
Speaker
Don't your run game is too shit this season to control a game that way. So like, I'm not the whole I'm not in the other extreme where it's like running any run down any run by this team is a wasted down. But like, don't run on back to back plays unless like the first one was a 30 yard run. Like, right yeah, you can't say not to do it if you're having success at it. right but success means more than you know know a yard or two game yeah like if you get one yard like i don't care that it was blocked perfectly like it it obviously wasn't so like do you think that with that statement that you brought up about sala and i completely forgot that one But do you think that's why he tries to keep Bisaccia around is because Bisaccia is his quote unquote strong arm?
00:53:13
Speaker
And i i think, I don't know. i think that's more to the like, he doesn't want to be the guy who can't keep a coordinator kind of thing. But I wouldn't doubt it. Like, to me, never made But see, it's more than just the coordinator because remember, he's also the assistant head coach.
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah. So it makes me wonder if that's, you know, his strong arm. And that's another reason why I say he needs to be gone. Yeah. Like, I know that one I might not say to Basaccia's face because Basaccia might eat me, but I just like and I don't even go to this extreme necessarily, but like the people that are like,
00:53:55
Speaker
policy should at work he doesn't have to be the one to fire LaFleur but at least get rid of the three-headed, like, power system kind of thing and, like, at least make it where the GM truly has, like, I'm here to hire or fire you kind of thing. And now, and then it's like, okay, Gurukun, it's like, whoever you pick, your you are truly tied to that guy kind of thing and stuff. But, like, i it does make you want, like, and like I said, no system is perfect, but it does make you wonder how often each side sits there looking at the other guy and is like,
00:54:32
Speaker
the fuck are you like the fuck are you doing over there kind of thing? And like, I do, like, we'll never know, but I do wonder if Goody kind of looks at him as like, I told you we're not bringing Romeo back next year. Like, if you need me to talk to Jordan about finding a new binky, I'll talk to him about it. Like, yeah you know. i think the whole thing with the three he the triangle, i think that was way overblown. Yeah, I do too, mostly. But it is one of those where it's kind of like,
00:55:02
Speaker
I do wonder if the like, how come this guy is getting used a certain way kind of thing? And it's like, you know, like I said, think it was more just because of Rogers and it's like, okay, we're going to to attack this as a three headed monster. Yeah. I agree with you there. What the hell is he doing? And then they just, you know, controlled the rest of the team the same way. But I've been thinking after you said that, that maybe Bisaccia is like supposed to be his Dan Campbell, raw, raw, whatever. I can see that. And it's not working. So we need to find a different raw, raw guy in there because obviously either Besaccia, I mean, he's always been a player's coach because you ask anybody who's played for him then they'll tell you they loved him.
00:55:47
Speaker
but it's the bad kind of players coach undisciplined doesn't look like there's a plan all that kind of stuff i agree with you like yeah shit i'd love to play for you know i'd love a boss that lets me do whatever and never have any you know i'd never have to face the consequences of my actions kind of thing so yeah and this is what i would do and i don't know if this is how they do it or not But when it comes whenever the final game is, whether you know they make a run to the Super Bowl, they lose this one, whatever the scenario is, when they do their end-of-season...
00:56:26
Speaker
performance reviews that's where you need to have your three-headed monster set especially with guticun stood in the floor's ass on the line because they they have not had their extensions done as we know of
Season Reviews and Future Outlooks
00:56:38
Speaker
yet so that's where policy goody and leflore need to sit in there and have legit performance reviews on the staff yeah Honestly, i would appreciate it if Groot and Policy kind of strong arm and say like, you're not going to be back if you don't fire this guy. Right, but what I mean is if they do it that way, then LeFleur legit has to do a performance review. It can't just be one of those things like right i they they they sit in there and have a conversation. Oh yeah, you did great. We'll we'll see you next year.
00:57:11
Speaker
You know, it's going to be one of those things. oh shit. My bosses are watching. I have to legit do a performance review and have to tell this guy he's an asshole when he can't.
00:57:23
Speaker
But otherwise, like like you said, i don't have too much to say about this Bears game because we've seen it play out twice. They should have won both the games. Do we know what the weather looking like this far out for Chicago? Shit. Let's see.
00:57:39
Speaker
through
00:57:41
Speaker
And that's the thing is like that, that game before Christmas, the weather wasn't good. Like the the wind was terrible. So right and Jordan was still, Jordan was still cutting the ball through the air and Malik was too. So like cloudy and breezy with snow showers, mainly later 39 degrees for high.
00:58:03
Speaker
that night 27 27 degrees mostly cloudy and breezy with a flurry early than an hour or two of snow so this could be a whiteout game yep i mean this is way too early we're recording this sunday night they don't play until saturday so it could completely change but Also, I'm kind of glad they're playing on Saturday. Just get it over with. And if you happen to win, you're not like getting the short-changed, short-week thing where if you played on Sunday or, God forbid, the Monday night game, and it's like, oh, now you're playing on Saturday kind of thing and stuff. so yeah The only thing I got to say about it is it's an Amazon Prime game. And even though I have Prime, I think that's shitty that they are doing that.
00:58:47
Speaker
I know they have the deal, but yeah, they're they're broadcast. They're... they're their signal is crap. It's not just that. I just don't think that you should make people sign up for prime just to have to watch a game. I mean, obviously I have prime because I use it for more than just watching videos on. i hell I order half the shit I ever get off Amazon. So it just whatever, but yeah.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yep. All right, but I think we can put a bow on this one. you know No real surprises. Like you said, no one gave a shit this week, so nothing nothing weird happened with who Green Bay was going to end up playing this week. so I think we all figured it was going to be Chicago no matter what. I know they said it was either going to be Chicago or or Philly, but I'm pretty sure it it was always going to be Chicago one way or the other. yep I'd rather have it as the the conference championship game so the prophecy can still be in place. but
00:59:51
Speaker
Whatever. i'm I'm tired of talking about that crap too. So let's just get it over with. I know, it but it's all fitting in perfectly, Mike. Buy into it. It's fitting perfectly.
01:00:05
Speaker
i'm too I'm too nihilistic for that crap already.
01:00:11
Speaker
But if you want more nihilistic takes on football, check out the website, ohadapackers.org. You know, Based on how this team has looked, unless you know unless a lightning bolt goes up their collective asses and gets them playing at a different level, we're probably going to be doing our end of season review and all that kind of stuff. And I'll be posting more articles about that. Please support the shop.
01:00:34
Speaker
Get the merch. Support us through there so that you know hopefully at some point Joe and I can meet in real life. preferably in green bay also yeah that would be nice please check us out on your favorite social medias oh don't forget the uh giveaway yeah i was gonna get there when i got to facebook at ohana score ohana underscore packer at ohana underscore packers on twitter at ohana packers edition on instagram as joe
01:01:05
Speaker
excellently pointed out please follow us on facebook only facebook followers will be eligible for our drawings all the We'll have drawing some other time for the rest of it, but we want to grow our Facebook account. Yep. So get us there. please So yeah, we need to get to 100 followers on Facebook so we can live stream there when we do post games and stuff. Or else the doggy gets it.
01:01:30
Speaker
thats The treats. not nothing not Nothing else. Don't come for us, PETA. Hey, if you want to go on a tangent, I have a thing against PETA anyway. I know. I know. I only make that joke because that joke is there. but I know, but they blew up my grandpa's place of business years ago. So, yeah, I have a very much hatred for... oh God. Yeah.
01:01:54
Speaker
yeah I love animals. I hate that organization. They're corrupt. They're absolutely... They're they're they're a ball sack of lies. but
01:02:03
Speaker
Check us out on your favorite podcasting apps. Give us a like and a subscribe for all of our football takes, non-football takes, like our thoughts on... If you want us to do separate episodes, just on some weird ass takes, let us know. Oh, especially with the, especially with the off season coming up, you know, we did our five highs and all that kind of stuff. The other, the couple years ago we did, uh, we promoted travel travel websites and stuff this past off season yeah like joe said give us ideas if you want us to just talk about star wars for a whole hour and a half we'll do that too but i could do it for three days come on now i know me i'm trying to honest me and michael have a marathon we'll do a 24 hour stream on nothing but star wars if you watch the whole series with us
01:02:51
Speaker
But for Iowa would Joe, I might catch us for a recap of the playoff game. God, I got tired just thinking about a 24-hour stream. too old for that shit. I am getting too old for that shit.
01:03:04
Speaker
Go Pack Go and aloha.