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#137 - Tuba Vogel | Zwischen Performance & Menschlichkeit
11 Plays4 hours ago
Tuba Vogel begleitet seit über zehn Jahren internationale Tech-Unternehmen beim Aufbau und der Skalierung moderner People-&-Culture-Strukturen. Als Chief People Officer und Director People hat sie eng mit Gründer:innen und Führungsteams daran gearbeitet, Organisationen leistungsorientiert, international und nachhaltig wachsen zu lassen. Ihr Fokus liegt auf Organisationsentwicklung, Leadership, Workforce Planning und der Frage, wie People-Arbeit vom Supportbereich zum strategischen Business-Treiber wird.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
12:15 - Warum viele Unternehmen kein Hiring-, sondern ein Performanceproblem haben
28:40 - Hypergrowth, Kultur & Leadership
43:10 - Performance ohne Burnout
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tuba-vogel/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: thomas@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Tuba Vogel and Her Background
00:00:07
Speaker
Heutiger Gast, Tuba Vogel. Tuba, das freut mich, dass wir jetzt hier sitzen. haben uns ja bei einem unserer Executive Dinner kennengelernt und sind dann nebeneinander gesessen, haben uns gut unterhalten und da habe ich gedacht, lass uns doch einmal einen Podcast machen.
00:00:21
Speaker
Und du hast ja über zehn Jahre People-Culture-Erfahrung in Scale-Ups, hast skaliert international, national und hast viel gesehen. Und mich würde einmal interessieren, wenn du jetzt auf diese Reise zurückblickst.
00:00:34
Speaker
What has been your most proud of you a person? going to connect with a intro to you. yeah hiquaish geish here I'm to A little intro to me. I was the 10 years in Start-up was sla good oned as to ti shes not leaving the It can be super exciting and super exciting.
Building Culture at ProGlove
00:01:08
Speaker
And my experience, which I've been doing most, is actually first startup, in which was ProGlove from Munich. I was in the beginning of my life, as we were 10 people and had no idea of anything. We had no work, no processes, no any specific definition of what our culture or values are.
00:01:28
Speaker
That's what I've done in three years, on 130 people. And was really insane, then looking back to see. Mega, mega cool. That's what I've built. That's what I've done in few years.
New Role at Juni
00:01:42
Speaker
And it's really been a have. actually a big deal.
00:01:53
Speaker
Over the years went to different startups and scale-ups and in different Größen, and I was very much in a big figure in Form of the way that I was VP or Chief People Officer, but then I looked at what is it actually? What is really good? What should we bring to the next stage? How can we better be? What should we change? Or just better make better? And now I'm going to sneak preview at Juni by a in a very young startup, and go in the new building and go in the new building and build the arms and build something new. I'm excited.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, super.
Inspiration and Early Interest in People Management
00:02:34
Speaker
um What did you originally brought in the People-Bereich and is it today still the same thing that you had so changed and how has it changed?
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think we have been very open and honest to you. I just pick out filter out. I studied BWL class and I actually had a really cool professor who came from the personal area. also been extroverted,
00:03:08
Speaker
Themen wie Supply Chain
00:03:18
Speaker
Der Professor war einfach so cool, dass ich gedacht habe, irgendwie macht er mir das sehr schmackhaft, wie der an das Thema rantritt, wie viel Freude er reinbringt in die Themen wie Coaching und Training. Ich habe einfach gedacht, komm, das ist jetzt ein Vertiefungsfach. Und dann hatte damals angefangen, Praktika und Werkstudentenstellen zu machen, wo ich einfach gesehen habe,
00:03:35
Speaker
how much that can be, that it's not just Recruiting itself, but also strategically lot things can be done. was at suzin and foder ugawaas and in the youngish ludent and ryan kar withtan ifa mahanlatan hattaisttanwich deskifila a in and
00:04:08
Speaker
obviously de pao nigo markta andan verishkimer tapsis that's what when sign most And this is it now still so? It sounds very strong, if you would have been the Gestalt of the topics interested in being interested in and that it was also new for you. How is it now?
00:04:25
Speaker
It's actually still so. Also it comes really on scallas and then had tu a few the I links. That's everyone can do. Then it's always a bit the question of Autonomie, it is.
00:04:51
Speaker
Je to which structure I am and was, is it actually in their form shans theraish market doesn a step irish for danish irish markanvalish superagganniment mentioned so za been on he on which my desk na o notice hados for and the I I
00:05:16
Speaker
And if you look at the People-Funktion, say 2015 versus 2026, how has the function changed?
Evolution of HR to People and Culture
00:05:23
Speaker
v hati deon coion for ended Wahnsinnig dolle. Also es ist total spannend zu verfolgen, wie sehr, also auch in in so einer Rolle wie Head of People and Culture to be. have it at the time in the general Head of HR called Human Resources instead People and Culture.
00:05:56
Speaker
People were resources and today we say that not anymore. At the time it was innovative when we said, hey, I'll show you the department now, to show you how it looked like it was 10 or 11 years.
00:06:09
Speaker
shapkaak desmit kuunna transish translatees alishsh miswait and viap on firstand nab vansen is kaman drop naunish out remote main romanmanzi fluor gudata nine manus I the who is near, who is in the Gain and the Gain and the person can feel the person and the person can react to them.
00:06:29
Speaker
mis niche faish just swift this is ah womenm present is the manza andas ra when man its v ni co I
00:06:43
Speaker
tae christtin vanor to the person is not only a resource, but it's really about how it's to the person's way. What can do for benefits, but what can we do to do, so that it's the person's way to go? In the sense of mental health, it's a very, very big topic. For me, with 2020 and just and happy with that. really happy with that.
00:07:13
Speaker
We have been very innovative for few years since we said, let's what people want with remote work or what benefits it is to that the purpose.
Challenges in Scaling Companies
00:08:08
Speaker
in individual. areas
00:08:10
Speaker
umva iish as aba keba um when he hit so much pinr hersh up give him canvas with kind we does And I as the purpose music house me kind of the staff of us prevaist sign and stuff o sign that to me i'm a truena right yes kany al hamimberg known and cho i knowda on is yeah philip guque on this job is vaon so for I in the
00:08:46
Speaker
I think very strong from fundraising, because there was very much fundraising done.
00:08:53
Speaker
I think that's a certain way. Because the
00:09:04
Speaker
okay um to il event As a thesis, I and hiring problem, but a performance problem.
00:09:27
Speaker
What do you think about it? I think that...
00:09:34
Speaker
We think that we have a hiring problem because we don't have the right people on board, because we know in can perform, as she can.
00:09:57
Speaker
We're talking about high performance and high performance means not to burn out. It means to me actually to make a resilient way, which is why I was assigned to the product. Oh, without it being out of the way. And to bring the support from the way you need.
00:10:17
Speaker
um deman pro And I is So the surveys gehen, dass dann häufig kommt, ich weiß nicht, was ist, ich weiß nicht, was meine Position zum Unternehmenserfolg beiträgt etc. Das ist das, wo ich merke, dass wir gar nicht enabled
00:11:01
Speaker
on a stand down with a of shim heavy i'm hiring for blame by va mahma mehmanak the afkalyric suzan yabu andteman ofma ima invite as ier astan maham ker um densy damagemit this says probably blamelu and then and And then the the to
00:11:43
Speaker
Ganz konkret zum Beispiel? Ja, um schon... I can't even mention the it's have the
00:12:14
Speaker
Then you have another person, you notice it doesn't work anymore. Then you come back to the same game again and then the third person is already there. Then you notice two or three years later, you set people like me up and say, fix this, it doesn't work anymore. Then I notice that it's the wrong person. I can try to enable them so, as we have actually lived in the last few years as a company.
00:12:41
Speaker
can't scale the person so, so that they can't come, where they can come, as if you're looking at them, and say, let's see how we can see them together and see them. That's what I see very often. have also a classic example to this topic.
00:12:56
Speaker
does the mane say hoish yeah have but non classs sp sp so dam tama um <unk> teams or even more, the start a company and then have a problem. Or bottleneck is in sales, they need more but ah so much a bottle neck his him himself it blu mayor more Aufträge, more Umsatz, more Wachstum, maybe the product the product market or a product or a message market fit not yet.
00:13:36
Speaker
And then it was the biggest problem of the company to see and to say CEO attention, the time is now, I'll solve this now. an Werkstudenten draufzusetzen. Das ist ein bisschen ähnlich wie das, was Tasks,
00:14:08
Speaker
Und das sehe ich ganz oft, vor allem bei den Firmen, die dann scheitern. And up kaman ma I it, but then have to really good in And you And which seller there is.
00:14:39
Speaker
The to hire is often the easy way. Maybe it is not the right way, because they already have a product market fit. They already have a sales methodologies, which work for this use case. funktonian And the solution to hire is often solution, which maybe not really works, because then the product is not ready or the support system is not ready. Then is the question, what else are the solution? And I think Seniority is often not really the solution or the relevant one. The relevant one comes later, later.
00:15:11
Speaker
But often it's just important, I think, myself to go into it and maybe maybe people around to search as peers, who have already solved it and then just step forward to iterating and that problem in the water to solve, what really painful can be.
00:15:26
Speaker
And then you can build an organization around and scale. That's a good idea. A classic problem that I see regelmäßig, what you have product market fit and you want to just leave it. And then it's also for me always critical to say,
00:15:54
Speaker
I don't know if we want to attract people people, because I see that they just simply burn out.
Dangers of Hyperscaling and Strategic Hiring
00:16:01
Speaker
I have also seen several companies looking at people's eyes, just people's eyes, but just private or colleagues or peer groups, where often that was problem. And they didn't see it as problem and they were really just in the way.
00:16:16
Speaker
<unk> that Yeah, absolutely. And it's also the Etape after that, you get it, in the moment, so to go and solve the problem, when you're so big, have to that's also the way to understand, when I'm in my team, that's then enough, to come in,
00:16:34
Speaker
van momaam team does an image present um xor genu is right to come ati altonomiki dasid dani problem blame ourselves news and the to And
00:17:01
Speaker
That's what think from the people perspective actually actually a the from
00:17:39
Speaker
shiak does himrozukin was about vicea mihvi tuski al-hama
00:17:46
Speaker
um it'svain punk tode tonatasia Where do you see the moment invaxum in way that Hiring works not as a way, but as bottleneck, bremsknot?
00:18:07
Speaker
Have you seen that if you hire too much, that you become too slow or already already as an organization? And then you have to be slain? yeah Also ich glaube, wir haben 2022, 2023 gelernt, dass Hyperscaling was automatisiert werden kann, automatisieren.
00:18:37
Speaker
And yes, I noticed it. I have noticed it myself from my position. It's very natural, if you look at it in private, you talk with a small group. The issues are faster, because you can have a faster speed of a lot of people, as if you have 20 people sitting there, all have a perspective that can be great, but that can bring alignment with you. I'm convinced that there is point in the end,
00:19:04
Speaker
I can't say exactly what the the task, what is the department behind. But I'm convinced that we as Start-ups and Scale-ups, because we have this solution, I have to get people to solve this problem, to come quickly, that we then a few years later are maybe too big on the board and not merken, that this is still a bottleneck and that hiring isn't the solution.
00:19:36
Speaker
habe das oft
00:20:00
Speaker
to a organization of 50 people. We are now also 50 and I have noticed that it has been so far from 25 to 50. And we are now already vorsorgly the Ebenen and the infrastructure einziehen, so that we can then actually go up and scale. And now we have that a bit of bit overbought through intensity for many people.
00:20:20
Speaker
um And that's what I'm going to do now. But we and we that's, I think, easier than example in a product organization. But then when you say the organization double from 50 to 100 Then think that's a full organization. And And
00:20:59
Speaker
Because these intuitively intuitive decisions, they just get caught pass. But if that's not happening, then it breaks. And and
00:21:25
Speaker
tainlabishon idda was a assisttema for hunton nico duga eic um to yorima vida for endan ava um There are just these suffering, not enough capacity, not enough Abstimmung. Then there's shift. That has to be the And the
00:21:47
Speaker
um yeaham muslim more understanding no i just steal You said something very important with the example of 50 perzun It's a question of the
00:22:13
Speaker
um You said that a theme of your heart is Wohlfühl culture.
Performance vs. Comfort Culture
00:22:22
Speaker
um I say that performance culture maybe like a Druck and Wohlfühl culture is maybe like a schon-Raum.
00:22:31
Speaker
um Where positionierst du dich, or feel you feel you are more and um
00:22:39
Speaker
Why can't you put the to perform. a performance culture.
00:23:05
Speaker
Performance means not that you get it, that you have to have transparency. What I need to achieve? Where I am? Where I am? What are my goals? What is so comun and suan and hissh team react to benefit to it. Then I'll give a Urban Sports Club a member of the board, then I'll give a BVG ticket to it things as a slather on it, without the problem
00:23:51
Speaker
Was sind so dich die Hygiene-Faktoren aus deiner Sicht?
00:23:59
Speaker
viing me heart to this of a apartment she ta to
00:24:06
Speaker
and but since of feish hugen a fact to understand
00:24:15
Speaker
in dem man sich jetzt nicht irgendwie Gedanken machen muss, welchem Raum kann ich denn jetzt telefonieren oder meine Meetings halten, dass man things, about which you don't speak, but to for
00:24:58
Speaker
Health und so weiter mit rausgeben oder Transport, Benefits
00:25:26
Speaker
no-go Entscheidung für sich quasi ableitet, wenn das nicht passt. Das ist glaube ich auch wichtig. um Feedback. Auf alle Fälle. Also das ist glaube ich auch etwas, was ich oft gesehen habe, vor allem gegenüber Führungskraft, dass man sich auch ein bisschen einordnen kann, wo stehe ich eigentlich?
00:25:45
Speaker
Geht das in die richtige Richtung? Ja, nein? Genau. Absolut. Das vergisst man.
00:25:53
Speaker
If the listeners and hearer and hearer have one thing to make sense from your perspective, what would you like to give a message? with us two kindnna meetkim um Very In nameman zi allf al who the can in that that is the key to performance and enabled. Also, performance culture is
00:26:46
Speaker
Cool, thank you, that was it. And thank you for your time. Thank your
00:26:55
Speaker
Bye.