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#119 - Marie Kanellopulos | HR: Zwischen Skalierung und Stabilität
46 Plays12 days ago
Marie Kanellopulos ist Managing Partner bei DONE!Berlin – einer Boutique-Beratung, die seit 2013 mehr als 800 Unternehmen, darunter Airbnb Europe, N26 und H&M, dabei unterstützt, zukunftssichere People & Culture-Strategien zu entwickeln. Ihr Fokus liegt auf nachhaltiger Skalierung, modernem Leadership und der Transformation von Unternehmen in resiliente Organisationen.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
03:08 - Die Rolle von Recruiting und HR Operations
12:02 - Digitalisierung und interne Stärkung von Unternehmen
16:24 - Teamentwicklung und Kommunikation
20:21 - Führung und Feedback-Kultur
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marie-kanellopulos/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: thomas@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Vision
00:00:07
Speaker
Today I'm going to be Marie as Managing Partner from Dan Berlin. We have already been talking about the model, where externe intern work. We will talk a little about the model what we all know.
00:00:20
Speaker
butel external in internalmit aide
00:00:26
Speaker
um we a business but as mod non enforcement a so steve faj main kan viman's nuzinan and use it and be used it and where it doesn't make sense. And we'll start with a intro to you, Marie. Maybe you can imagine yourself.
00:00:41
Speaker
yes again ah tu thank sister and da aszipi marie fromanlin ah schleer and a boutique h abaraunngs firmma on yeah vant in ata i've seen acocar garden via scalian nahati film and boundrurum processor of triy mittaba and at sha themittaba the i say own the business And finally, it's about to modernize the middle-of-concept, because the proof of concept has a great history, he has money, but is unfortunately uncool for the there is so much potential, what would like to refresh.
00:01:17
Speaker
And and consciana bo said sayli ahhas into rima and yeah and yeah agila avits a metorn einur and and demitya are and put as a startups in the are What are your thoughts?
00:01:33
Speaker
um meist gebuchten, ich würde jetzt mal sagen Services, also ihr bietet ja im ganzen Personalbereich alles an. Gibt es da irgendetwas, was besonders hervorgehoben wird, besonders angefragt wird oder ist das eher gleichmäßig verteilt?
HR Models and Strategies
00:01:49
Speaker
Ja, im Großen und Ganzen ist dann Berlin wie so ein Yeah, complete supermarket in HR. Also, any question that in HR is available, can we use it. And it changes, I'm very clear, from year to
00:02:13
Speaker
And now the market has been consolidated. We are more mode. We stärken our customers from within. That means 40% is still recruiting, but on a very sustainable way.
00:02:30
Speaker
40% unserer Arbeit besteht aus HR Operations.
00:02:50
Speaker
That's 40% Recruiting, 40% HR Operations and 20% we are in interim HR position. Also interim Head of HR, interim CPO, we give Sparing, Mentoring.
00:03:04
Speaker
Also I don't know you see Thomas, but think everyone needs Mentoring. Egal how senior you are, you need to be able to exchange and reflect on the project. Is that project?
00:03:16
Speaker
Have I done anything? How would you do it? And all this make we in the last 20%.
Recruitment and Localization
00:03:23
Speaker
Cool. Also, on all a lot ah so zang so 40% Tech Recruiting, 40% Sales Recruiting, 80% passiert generell in Deutschland oder im deutschsprachigen Raum und Deutschland wird oft unterschätzt, dass es halt hilft, deutschsprachige
00:03:52
Speaker
a region that helps if have a certain area of need to hire, to the talent.
00:04:05
Speaker
um That helps and we also have to collect data. And does so um I think it's also something that makes very much sense, that you it from
00:04:34
Speaker
Und da wird das als Sparing sehr oft gerne genutzt. Und ich kann mir auch super
00:04:45
Speaker
Also das ist ja auch ein Riesenvorteil. Yes, we also merken, Thomas, you are in Munich, I in Berlin, that the companies that come to you have the talent, the internationality you have in In recruiting in Munich.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think that's now completely changed and region. And I must outdated is, but we have the talent at the time. We know what they want.
00:05:31
Speaker
We know how the standard is. this high and I would in the same way. So I have very classic case.
00:05:47
Speaker
a vigen nadochland We to Germany, we a company. We take a company here from the nation and take him to Germany.
00:06:07
Speaker
Das heißt, such dir doch jemanden, der bereits im Land ist. Dann geht es um die Seniorität. Zum Beispiel wollen dann ganz viele Gründer und Gründerinnen Ach, ja, ich nehme einen Head of Sales.
00:06:25
Speaker
Also such dir vielleicht einen Senior Sales Manager, der bereits Erfahrung und Kontakte hat, aber der sich immer noch beweisen möchte nach oben. You have a hands-on person. one the south We often go into Org Chart-Beratung.
00:06:40
Speaker
When do I get to home and how do get it?
Adapting to Change
00:06:45
Speaker
um danak naulli' vibooviststein And get it? Through this years-long experience, we had 800 Firmware,
00:06:55
Speaker
Is she on LinkedIn? Is she on Xing? Is she in Slack? Is she maybe completely offline?
00:07:05
Speaker
Do I to And afford them. We have so volatile times. Everything is changing. I have to laugh.
00:07:18
Speaker
and ti to a ius maah When you say, I have best practice, that was before five years in the Internet, then that is a data-like. You don't have to start with it. You have to adjust it.
00:07:31
Speaker
And that begins with Mindset of muabba sper and kepts ah hill for women and andbiterti by me and from glytatic trans and and glytatickda and sam moon but uncommonant as our sacred good for gla um <unk> so but ke and and yeah i want to start and said that on justtan course he meet with internet data or so because if you just as company the same approach always select, then you get certain way the same data sets, right from the Vergleichability and right from the methodical method, how you can find it. And there is also a way to you can look at it, anonymously and consolidating it and so, ah but if you have relevant peer group, with which you can compare it, is that of course very helpful. How have
00:08:19
Speaker
weha ten ear You have started it 2016. I think that this model is first so new created. Before that was my opinion not well known, even in Recruiting, that the company might be more All right.
00:08:41
Speaker
um and done iring bun so can analyzes upwiphon with centralizationton had in ah had had this in filmmare andpitake a game d is al and in theform range that's not done te permeter but
00:09:05
Speaker
Also Cornelia Hoppe hat die Firma gegründet und hat gesagt so, hey, wir haben super viele Startups hier. There are startups that want to grow, but HR tendenzie work administrative in Excel.
00:09:20
Speaker
And actually we need to do small entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs who really say, hey ah CEO, that and that and comes and you have that problem on the mat.
00:09:32
Speaker
So, basically business driven HR, that was the keystone of DUNN Berlin. I came from 2016, that's right, and I loved it because we were a community, an HR, we were a group under the DUNN Berlin.
00:09:48
Speaker
anddia aphonunha is an a ni con And customers and had a scale
Expansion and Flexibility
00:09:52
Speaker
of experience with each other. And so, we have to work in Squads. We have to sell our wisdom quickly the market. Because there comes so much good stuff. And even now,
00:10:07
Speaker
There are many and great Gründerszenen, which are super in Allianzen. ah But the HR or the
00:10:30
Speaker
fancy terras noinine and itswera no sin We have also different Schwesterfirmen founded in HR-Training and in Finance-Bereich, in Controlling-Bereich.
00:10:41
Speaker
But we have then Berlin as Mutterschiff sozusagen built. We have said, there is not only Recruiting, but there is also HR operations, because there is a lot of need. We can learn from each other, we are much faster.
00:10:55
Speaker
When you create tools, you know exactly in the practice, which tool you must help for which customers to help, so that the people really grow up. And to grow up is a scaling.
00:11:10
Speaker
Scala comes from Treppe. And we want to be there really objektiv tätig and to every customer that was really to and offer.
00:11:27
Speaker
but know That's the main point of view. That model is very gefragt because many less Headcount Planning, they have less resources and these all the HR or Head of HR to not on the Paywall. You can as an external easy to kick out. That said and often made it.
00:11:53
Speaker
I find it not so bad. Why is this a taboo? I love being externa. You can always be able to be. You have to be profiling. You have to it be. Why not? You have the Stundensatz.
00:12:08
Speaker
I find myself in this area very well. feel myself very well. What are the topics that are most asked? where you are most asked?
00:12:21
Speaker
e Also tatsächlich Digitalisierung. Ich muss teilweise manchmal schmunzeln, wenn Firmen zu mir kommen, Marie, ich brauche AI.
Digitalization in HR
00:12:30
Speaker
Okay, bist du digital?
00:12:32
Speaker
Ja, nee, wir arbeiten noch mit Excel.
00:12:43
Speaker
You have to do something that you can't do with the intelligence. You have most work um step by step. i't come on Digitalization is very big on our side. You have to imagine, companies have a different dezentral setting different locations, but every one has different locations.
00:13:02
Speaker
riga baco or other systems. That's what we are doing. We search a central software and that is then used by API-Schnittstellen.
00:13:14
Speaker
Then come things like Performance, Goal Setting, OKR, Kommunikation, Wertschätzung, because then Awards make.
Performance and Culture
00:13:23
Speaker
All these things, I would say, these stärkens from the inner, that is so that thing we have.
00:13:29
Speaker
Recruiting is an evergreen thing, but not yet our focus. We really go in, to HR, because they have no mentors. What I find very, very sad.
00:13:39
Speaker
but deai viiser and kind of men to unha ah he said the shain ah finish out so <unk> got so pi anishportnessta consultation sha or also the <unk>ment demonle iberchal um um it's supposed bit some me out um apply to for but she laon in rich our plan um this one does you sit in but but I just and sa in g
00:14:12
Speaker
How much is Retention? How much is a hiring funnel for certain positions? much is the time for a long-term role? How much is the time for a long-term role? How much is the time for a long-term role?
00:14:27
Speaker
How much is time long-term role? How much can you change the time? been and and comment and as you helped and and um wie sieht das vielleicht ein Manager Person, die man einstellt?
00:15:04
Speaker
Das ist, glaube ich, etwas, was often not made or not made so thought. And then you can get more with the whole thing about the things that are super important. But I think if you do not make one of both things, then there is always a problem.
00:15:22
Speaker
Even if you have just people who have the numbers, the numbers and the whole time everything will break and mess will, but then not focus on the experience and so on. That is also a huge problem. I think it is important to um
00:15:38
Speaker
All things build up, right? Yes, absolutely. You speak so a relevant point about this topic. topic also on the market.
00:15:50
Speaker
HR has been very driven, very business very business-critical. um ah But sometimes the roles are not changed. And that and dafuty I that we have to join personal business. If HR people in culture or whatever else, it must HR directly speak with the Gründer. had to say yesterday workshop There was not about Scalier, but about stability.
00:16:19
Speaker
um they muslim alexantta orak struck to neifaendan by a team war beak niche reviews wouldn And the the And I expect from every good HR, that he goes through the company and knows what everyone in the company does and asks, hey, I'm here to give, what do you need to do at the end of the day your work right now?
00:17:00
Speaker
And that makes you the management. also talking about top management on zach heyre ah vi it design a yeah coming mc gansco server fightna mediba buthimana issh from un na o maba from umnahu del liian khan order the init c can then between alyerrationstonela and go in the same direction.
00:17:15
Speaker
And then I go with my HR-Buch from the office to the office and ask there also lot of things. Many things are taken off, many things are taken off.
00:17:26
Speaker
but they are not analyzed. That's my topic. This best practice, which is established and then an actor is placed. That's the same with performance management. You have a and free time. But that is a good balance you have to only as good age, if you think analytically when you think process-driven and when you actually act business-driven and you have some things here.
00:18:03
Speaker
What do you think about Performance Management? I have a lot of things that organize in Europe. And regardless of whether I'm in Munich or in Berlin or London, is the topic Performance Management something that has and
00:18:32
Speaker
Also, Performance Management ist ein Teilbereich in HR, der sich schnell dreht. Also man muss wirklich schauen, was ist jetzt so State of the Art.
Leadership and Mindset
00:18:41
Speaker
Da kannst du auch nicht einfach stehen bleiben. Grundsätzlich bin ich voll und ganz bei der Struktur.
00:18:54
Speaker
You certain measures make milestones, that everyone can or sense the it, to have it, you Kannst du den Führungskräften das Performance Management
00:19:41
Speaker
Super wichtig. Aber ich bin auch ganz klar bei der anderen Seite, die du gerade gesagt hast, hey, mit so einer Struktur und einem Gespräch, was pro Jahr zum Stand X terminiert ist, damit schaffe ich nicht Performance, to recognize you must have be able
00:20:21
Speaker
And all that you making e some k when i making he lays in k then very ahid in try wrong game can with um I'm on a say that Leadership has nothing to with kindness.
00:20:44
Speaker
Leadership has nothing to with clarity. And expect that you have to process, which you to do with the same process.
00:20:55
Speaker
and um Please give precise feedback and make a big elephant. I don't like it, and that's often in the reality, that you can things and then you can come to the conversation. Also, if it's this performance-on-one-to-peer-feedback and ad hoc feedback.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's good. waszi oal um in an am performance porto meet meet elleron calanta vosso calibria um session gupta so And but disccoia yeahis isd personate vacation of them labgord this was what and And, and, thing says yeah um'm so as radi carva and. knowman one hindun from And have but It's very difficult. There feedback, who would have consequences from the feedback. And then...
00:21:54
Speaker
um so
00:21:58
Speaker
so
00:22:06
Speaker
Und es liegt an dir, entweder du änderst es aber nicht oder nicht. Und wenn du es halt nicht änderst, dann passt du halt auch nicht hierher. Oder dann passen wir vielleicht auch für dich nicht. Und wenn du es änderst, dann brauchen wir auch nicht jetzt drei Monate dir Zeit geben, sondern Das geht halt von heute auf morgen. Ich glaube, wenn es Training impliziert und wenn man wirklich auch was lernen muss, ist es was anderes.
00:22:26
Speaker
Aber wenn es ein reines Mindset-Thema ist, dann kann man drüber Nacht einmal schlafen und morgen Dinge anders angehen. Es ist möglich. Und das habe ich für mich rausgenommen, wenn wir jetzt zum Beispiel auch Internet by People, weil es Leute haben, wenn mal etwas nicht richtig hinhaut, so wie es sein soll, dann bin ich der Letzte, der sagt, hey, scheiße, sonst was.
00:22:47
Speaker
Wenn ich aber merke, es ist ein Thema, wo wir immer über dieselben Themen reden und es ändert sich nicht rein vom Mindset, then I'm the one who says, well, we must be different from each other, because it doesn't fit. Because for me, this culture aspect, that the will be a strong culture, that is so important to me, that have to it with people who don't want to do it, but they don't want to live and can't do it, can't let it. Because the bigger you are, the bigger you are, the bigger britishhanish re law file um so course i manver um I think more so... Subculturen builden sich dann, die du gar nicht haben willst.
00:23:23
Speaker
And I see that as... managedish to us Performance Management Thema. Ich glaube, da kann man ganz viel lösen über Zeit, über Training und so weiter. Aber oft geht es ja auch darum, kulturell passt es oder passt es nicht und haben die Leute aber auch vom Hiring zum Beispiel die richtigen Expectation Gesetz bekommen, vielleicht auch vom Manager die richtige Klarheit, Support, Systeme, damit man das versteht und damit man das einordnen kann.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, if you don't have any hard decisions, you have so hard life. And I mean, Thomas, you and I, we are a whole world.
00:24:16
Speaker
But all these themes... I'm completely for
00:24:26
Speaker
ah But if it's always the themes, then it's also my energy. It's also my team atmosphere. ah yeah and And then we don't give us a chance to give chance.
00:24:37
Speaker
And I would wish that many...
00:24:40
Speaker
aba nima and aba giva aboutvo clara abaun's management and intaling does niva cloud ofta to comunit and and we can vo vior key da and and by them under interestinging st ah but the and demon a and sharu and tofe lets and and he cheish did forbade zatan of them on did fate of forbada zaittan omaun as a is Das ist mir ganz wichtig. Es ist ein Geben und ein Nehmen.
00:25:05
Speaker
Und wir müssen uns alle, auch als Arbeitnehmer musst du dich selbst allein erst mal glücklich machen.
00:25:23
Speaker
Und sorry, wenn es nicht da ist, else. think clear, present and also, the is the also, the also, also, also, the is the also, is also, the is the also, is also, the also, the also, the the also, also, the also, also, is the also, the also, the is the also, is the also, is also, is is also, the is the is the is the also, the is is the the is the also, is the is the, is the, the, is the, is the, is the, is the,
00:25:53
Speaker
Not only that we have to be clear, but that we have to live. And if that is, think that with Performance Management, I think that is not a big issue. Totally. That is this so complex or that is But then it's just a you make or not. You can also lean and just live.
00:26:10
Speaker
um un ali And then it's
HR Due Diligence and Analytics
00:26:12
Speaker
already. What I would like to interest in, how does it work for you so a HR due diligence? I think that's a super exciting and important topic. And especially when you at VCs, the maybe somewhere invest in, then maybe a Tech Diligence, then you can see the Verträge and everything.
00:26:30
Speaker
Of course the Finanz plan and so. But so a HR Diligence is often and with an uber fleshshish shot a garish kimma we we see to sp h ourselves menemin aberrai with naurna h out diligence maon x vo poy yeah but is so hard to count on data a i did was no gate and um that is audit storage yeah mahanass early advise it named soft moro whymit become harm and then fermented by nomvid and alfka kowden um than fuunan done
00:27:01
Speaker
the yeah team aspect calm bit attracted solange es über den Top-Management geht. Also nur du hast eine Diligence, was schaust du dir an? Technologie, Gründerteam, Financial Streams.
00:27:14
Speaker
Aber grundsätzlich, und das kam gerade aus so 2022, wo es hieß, hey, es gibt die Talentdichte gar nicht, wir müssen sowas von das Hiring machen, how does it say that? That we said, hey, let's look at the first one. We have to house, to know where the potential is.
00:27:35
Speaker
Today's topic is just about last question. Also 560.000 Geschäftsführer gehen im nächsten Jahr in Rente. Da muss ja viel passieren.
00:27:59
Speaker
Marketing und Co. Das wissen wir alles. Ich meine die People-Daten. So where you know how high is the high is the health structure? Mitarbeiter, the program will be more.
00:28:18
Speaker
The other thing is digitalized. Is there a software that know, where the knowledge is in which areas are going to be developed? Where is the knowledge gap in the company? And that is for due diligence, with this for the planing, for hiring, and ultimately also a way to go.
00:28:35
Speaker
and let's end this hour ah naha tiavi um wieder das Team aufzustellen. Das heißt, wir gehen rein natürlich mit einem Briefing von einem Management oder von der Sachlage, wo geht es eigentlich hin.
00:29:03
Speaker
Aber grundsätzlich wäre das natürlich ideal, wenn du in gewisser Weise eine Vorlaufzeit hast. And then we have most People Analytics implement.
00:29:20
Speaker
AI and and and data data and perspective, experts in order to establish and establish systems. And when we have the foundation, The is at beginning sexy. So to establish that, oh, that's a bit short, that's a bit short, but then you have it. Then you can really make it, the Maßnahmen behind to make it, with people to speak, people to re-skilling, up-skilling, to do it, quantify, to quantify, to quantify, that can be in HR very, very good. You get that buy-in, that top management, only if you say, hey, if you scenario ABC, then stick the data behind, as Invest, but also as risk.
00:29:59
Speaker
um It's super fun. And it's not something where you get prepared Excel-Listen and just verbinden musst, analysieren musst und am meisten ist es wirklich so,
00:30:35
Speaker
Also ich mache was ähnliches, ganz als Mini-Audit. Bevor wir eine Zusammenarbeit mit dem Kunden starten,
00:30:50
Speaker
Wenn es noch keine gibt, gut, dann halt durch Fragen und so Eindrücke sammeln. Und dann kann man, glaube ich, auch sehr gut einschätzen, wie realistisch sind denn die Expectations, die man setzt im Hiring für gewisse Stellen. Zum Beispiel, okay, ich möchte jetzt in Deutschland zehn Seller einstellen.
00:31:09
Speaker
um In der Vergangenheit Haben wir noch keine Daten dazu, dann würde ich Benchmark-Daten nehmen. Dann würde ich mir aber den Recruiting-Prozess anschauen und sagen, okay, mit welcher kann man das vergleichen? Und wenn ihr der Art und Weise performen möchtet, dann solltet ihr den Prozess gestalten, die Rolle skopen und so weiter und so fort. Also da Mikro-Ebene Dinge, die man dann echt optimieren kann.
00:31:30
Speaker
Aber meistens gibt es irgendetwas, wenn man... with external work, where you see something and say, look, other people make this so, so you can achieve it, that's good, that's good, that's that's good, that's good and let's go.
00:31:46
Speaker
ah So that's something I this perspective and you even as
00:31:59
Speaker
I think 2013 was Berlin under the flag of your sparing partner for sea level.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:32:15
Speaker
hada and and toli kushri um but i know Chief People Officer, der gesagt hat, er sieht HR gar nicht mehr als Department on so an, sondern HR muss eigentlich in jedem Department
00:32:39
Speaker
Ja gut, Marie hat mich sehr gefreut. Danke dir. Ja, ich auch. Und bis dann. Bis dann, Thomas. Danke.
00:32:52
Speaker
Bye.