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#139 - Sascha Haggenmüller | Unternehmerherz trifft Private Equity
26 Plays19 hours ago
Dr. Sascha Haggenmüller ist Co-Founder und Managing Director der Radial Consulting Group. Als promovierter Betriebswirt, US Certified Public Accountant (CPA) und zertifizierter Business Coach verbindet er Finance-Expertise mit Leadership- und Transformationsthemen. Nach vielen Jahren in führenden Positionen bei Deloitte, EY und Porsche Consulting begleitet er heute Unternehmen und Investoren bei Transaktionen, Restrukturierungen und der Weiterentwicklung ihrer Finanzorganisationen. In seinem eigenen Podcast spricht er regelmäßig mit Unternehmerinnen und Unternehmern über die Menschen hinter erfolgreichen Unternehmen.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
03:45 - Die Gründung von Radial & People-Perspektive bei PE-Deals
08:15 - Einstieg im Handwerk & Investment in Fahngold
12:30 - Unternehmertum als Lebenseinstellung & Bauchgefühl
Links:
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saschahaggenmueller/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: thomas@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi Sascha, it's me, that we're finally here sitting in the podcast here in studio. This is the second episode, which we're doing in the studio. We're going to do more and I'm going to do more. But before we go on, we have a lot of interesting topics. One of the things you build on, how you build a company, how you look at private equity perspective, also how look at people's perspective, because you're someone who is in the area the center and is very much more than you see.
00:00:29
Speaker
and you've also been a company that you've built and built up, that's very unique. So I'd like to share something with you. Thank you very much for being here. It's a great honor to be here, the second episode here with you. The pressure is high. But we can do it well. That's good.
Guest's Career Journey
00:00:47
Speaker
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00:01:21
Speaker
listen to the fariki and in concern ups in the consolit di rung zo the team m and a purchase price allocat locationions as emvan natolia shuli mdi dashtrakiundtenha um her parino my master damakiacht um owned ugman withtetando bisin langwilik when I and then of to green side to Deloitte, I made Restrukturierung, Transaktionsberatung, from 2016.
00:02:00
Speaker
Also the the financial due diligence-Projects made in the process of transaction, also also also work with the Zahlen, working with financial modeling, um on the names pi on horndundda It was a great time, it had great employees, also different types of employees. I had former employee, Bain, who had the same thing out of the way, when it was good for the following. Then had someone who a classic finance manager, who had learned the whole finance thing. Then I had someone who was a
00:02:44
Speaker
ah yeah operations orientered by the size but o was ammb busyian to minister as a style jolere in the in the operations for under the name ryaninhandorfin parino man dr ava erishshribn andaii finance yeah and ergmanan ion zwaik wouldn't the intend instrumentman done laud um deman it was agnes mahan merched alzian something in my hearts with visnama top machave shabo in himself made ansuelo in geshbo he kenny of and counders se good is my narpa So we have to learn about Caro, who is your sister and is our
Personal Growth and Motivation
00:03:18
Speaker
people who work with us. But it's super super tu well glythetic um owned yaboma um um um impforfeed me then a And You have been doing all through study, you're going to go to the doctor.
00:03:40
Speaker
Then in the training, that's also very intensive. What has been your purpose to do so? I think that has several facets. I have been very much with Persönlichkeits-Entwicklung and coaching
00:04:07
Speaker
And I said, I had a not so easy childhood, I believe, and I've tried to fill a lot of experience with success. I think it's a lot of people at the end so. I look at the time and think, did you really want that?
00:04:24
Speaker
what did you get there? Because it feels sometimes in the meantime, as if someone had made it for me in my room. It was sometimes not my own voice.
00:04:36
Speaker
And I think that's just one of cases, where you can go in. Some people take drugs, some people take drugs, some people try to compensate for because they're then actually from what you want to feel or feel. So that's the very personal answer, I think, this topic. And I'm also a sensation-seeker, because I don't know.
00:04:54
Speaker
prezum he unvoed cloudish um off the steamer um on the andra sides penish shono iina there um sensation seekers we like os vgenish advises niche andzishmitn noalli te nioristic um ientfis unan as venianzo noli thank care only i team um tonight treat and to Passat in the door and wait until go to rent,
00:05:33
Speaker
um van calmed on captain olvm cho shuamma of a z na ne meha su ma aszi van versus a I had two months free, then to the and from scratch.
00:06:03
Speaker
I think the driver is this personal story. But there is already a lot of creativity. You talked about coaching. What was that for a coaching? Because many people have a I there spike in you, I mean, I just coaching. did
00:06:44
Speaker
I think the first time there is somewhere difficult and the first session goes not so, as you can imagine. But then just to learn to ask yourself, that's about 2021, that's one of the best decisions think you can get. And that means not, is someone psychically sick or is someone psychically healthy?
00:07:04
Speaker
um on the sideism ni i see ma suish k cran or the simma suish kissund ah michlap 100% psychisch gesund gibt es nicht und 100% psychisch krank gibt auch nicht.
00:07:26
Speaker
Okay, und dann hat es dich gejuckt, dann war Beratung nichts mehr und dann wolltest du selber machen. Wie kam es dazu? Exactly. I would correct myself to to a company, many employees to to meet and working with them.
00:07:56
Speaker
That's not in a different profession. And so I couldn't imagine my corporate or so going, where you're going to head of controlling or something. But that's the in me has always been in my life. I was in the the
00:08:23
Speaker
beyond them maus saroromaes nichna And it was red on.
00:08:42
Speaker
ofkishtan And then, I can't really reconstruct it, but then it was like little bit of a problem that we have to build a company that's all about everything. And that's what happened
Founding a Tech-Driven Finance Boutique
00:08:51
Speaker
to me. And then we had have, as I said, to February 2021, started to create new idea to create a new idea. And what is a new idea now?
00:09:02
Speaker
agi fang earlieruonipion and a alilia We are a tech-triebene finance boutique, as we call it. We have about 35 employees.
00:09:15
Speaker
They come from Deloitte, from EY, from the big four, from Roland Berger, also the classic Berater profile. But we also have data engineers and AI engineers in the team.
00:09:26
Speaker
can be able use the the side to bring you far competence or standak to talk to your own Finance Finance, and combine them with a technical component, with AI and Data Analytics, Data Warehouses etc. pp and support private equity investors and their portfolio companies by all finance and transformation-based topics. This goes with financial and tax due diligence in the market.
00:09:53
Speaker
This goes with reporting and controlling automation in the period. We have a lot of value creation um on danoffvido um ah exit forbiri i so um deep proud suuangng nor mahu shmaform for calf um and and and and and and
00:10:16
Speaker
the midmodan middle east um gu and fatron's foif for karvin khan Okay, there is a financial perspective, more than the data perspective, but there is also a people component. And I have a lot of HR, Talent Acquisition, what do you think about your company?
00:10:33
Speaker
ahchedt's yu estma in in apu orfuma this here and fork offki state site And then also, if you have private equity investors from transaction 1 to value creation to transaction 2, from a financial but also from
Financial Literacy in HR and Talent
00:10:50
Speaker
a people's perspective. Because, I'll give you another context, I think, many people in a people HR talent acquisition have no understanding how companies work financially, how budgets work, and where they are looking for.
00:11:06
Speaker
And b, they have no access to loop, that you just know in the function, you don't know how you can use this function,
00:11:18
Speaker
man wird immer von Seat at the Table spricht man, wie du an
00:11:47
Speaker
We have to on the
00:12:06
Speaker
that was happening in the process, which was necessary. We have a process that is very short, which is the three stages. We have a personal fit interview with our We do a case study, which is also detailed, which the team does also work. Then we and we, where we say, okay, that's not the case. I say it's not for Senior Manager in the way, where we are of course involved.
00:12:34
Speaker
Worauf achten wir? Wir haben gewisse Hygienefaktoren, die man bei uns in der Branche einfach braucht. Also ich sage jetzt mal, du musst irgendwo wissen, wie man ein integriertes Finanzmodell baut. Du musst Accounting verstehen, musst Finance verstehen, Corporate Finance verstehen.
00:12:50
Speaker
That means that that wasn't been given, then I can't set person to the point because then neither the person has something else, nor have something else. Also we look in profiles very, very strongly on the past of the people who are just experiencing the experience in financial diligence, in the in the area of restructure as well. There are of course Profile from Big Four and Next Ten in the areas very, very important or most of the hygiene factor. So now I think that the hygiene factor is small part of the same.
00:13:22
Speaker
the glyone um And where we actually realize where the Weizen is the issue of ownership. Maybe it's kind of intrinsic motivation. Maybe it can be a way to write it.
00:13:39
Speaker
Or a personal approach to yourself and your work. can't even describe it properly. But just this ownership to say, I give I can best possible and I can do the extra mile if I decide to decide that I have go the extra mile and do not do it. So we try to find out in interviews, if people are able to check. don't think so easy. I would like to ask you to ask how to do Ownership in interviews. But we are very careful about that. And that's also the people who actually trenquers the Spreu from Weizen.
00:14:17
Speaker
Also the take the theme in mist offering.
00:14:30
Speaker
And so this, I would say it's a bit of typical Arbeitnehmer-Einstellung, we don't actually search for people, the people who think about it,
00:14:41
Speaker
on this best to game wine on physique a found valyen tried in man yet webatrot ma oran ni u ofvi mowes am for ferite gartin unveed semashpiovne transaxionchaust yeah you understood yeah invasion belaiishing gena and and or example, what is your part and where are the financial components and people components together?
00:15:11
Speaker
as So, let's take a simple example. software investor kauft an ehemaligen inhaber-geführten Unternehmen a tax-based price. That's ehemalige Founder has then hopefully a life.
00:15:25
Speaker
In the general is bai and the andno vehicle He has then more Anteile, that could be 10, 20, 30% of them, which he has then also new and And
00:16:02
Speaker
vique the indiansla kin andfilia And many of kafmana from um zaishsh my yura poly here zona llo de de from poducte com no the a the software software.
00:16:26
Speaker
And comes umed sun investor with on board and then change the time.
00:16:34
Speaker
da beardda am mat fede i'm a monaddi financialist and oped on ifibat fan six mis foegger monadoamphiton and this uba next monad fexs and this en of kudo isi guy um kes accounting is an ashand yeah as a team ah up grand songul as ahi a but i'm van ni aast imonad abshulus to certaintan i'mmasaras and de geachh e got himself to a bira sudi the in the first time of the license, which are not yet to be a deal, so a topic, also passive Rechnungsabgrenzung, which you have to look at, and that's all they have not done.
00:17:05
Speaker
And then zak the investor says, we need to have a head of finance or CFO or something on your side. And then the people-item are already done.
Challenges in Private Equity Integration
00:17:16
Speaker
very, very often, because you have often been in the honeymoon phase, as you call it, all have been loved and it's cool and the response and so on. And then it's just like, we need monthly reporting, monthly reporting, monthly reporting, we want to see software failure, a snowball, how much upsell, downsell, churn, new business, with which Kunden, with which product cohort,
00:17:42
Speaker
How is it maybe subscription shift from licenses to a SaaS model? These all the analytics topics. And there it goes a bit a bit, because the entrepreneur will entrepreneur the PE is an analyst. And that's what really like. What makes you the organization?
00:17:58
Speaker
and theytan vanenic biased and capptize extreme field organisgan That sets
00:18:17
Speaker
organia kinda analytica are not because they to business business for analyses and then It's often a day that the investor asks, why is this current trading not coming, as we have seen it in budget, etc. There are two worlds together, which I of a and good people find.
00:19:09
Speaker
hu um hiring is onri and tama um by The classic is actually the the winning value creation game, where we have talked about 100 private equity investors, where it is also difficult for hiring. spiriquez And that is the most in the financial and CFO, because the role changes the role.
00:19:35
Speaker
and done i saw A CFO was before 20 years ago, who could have the Accounting Standards and have done everything well and done everything well and a process thinker.
00:19:46
Speaker
The skills you need today also. But I think that the private equity investors often often look at the experience and not really at the hard skills that a CFO today needs. CFO today is a strategic partner for the can data warehouse orientier thinkt or the data analytics oriented thinked or that a ERP is too expensive compared to a ah business intelligence, which I can't get into heterogeneous data-quels,
00:20:24
Speaker
then it's in di faji riun as so aarrung andzich kaho suagge minus ah achtenzor fechstein at sagi this later on build byyas ray evan he saw um idin ah farng heed i map omanist to beriden ah wela the is not much more valuable in the AI the business intelligence world. And I think that there are sometimes the challenges in hiring. What are challenges I of or versus
00:21:01
Speaker
How big is Radial now?
Company Expansion Goals
00:21:05
Speaker
We still very strong. We want to be 50 people in the year. We are in Munich, we build a tech and India and 50 people in the year of 2020 is our goal.
00:21:24
Speaker
You are also very profitable here, everything is financed from and from to this
00:22:13
Speaker
Am Ende sage ich aber trotzdem, klar, es ist Asset Lite. Am Ende, du brauchst, im Prinzip Wolf und ich haben mit zwei Laptops
00:22:43
Speaker
50.000 Euro im Monat locker und dann halt eure Selbstkosten und ein bisschen so. musst einen kalkulatorischen Unternehmerlohn noch einrechnen, theoretisch, aber wenn du jetzt die harten Kosten nimmst, dann geht da jetzt gerade in den ersten Wochen, Monaten natürlich nicht viel ab. aber der Switch ist ja dann nicht so einfach zu sagen, und jetzt stelle ich jemanden ein und jetzt muss die Qualität genauso sein, die Preise müssen genauso sein, die Marge geht mal runter, du hast aber trotzdem...
00:23:06
Speaker
You have a risk because they and um that's mostly on shanlavi tushhaibre We had the opportunity to set up two weeks after the official start of the 1.4.2022 expert, which had to set with 90.000€ fixed income.
00:23:39
Speaker
afarran and berata einostein then bia ochmed ninety six thousand orufi kihaittan inch patient for gri to time or And if you know that you can't afford your own money, what you could afford to do, you can also afford to do that. And I think that it can be a part of the money. it can also be that he doesn't have to a part of it. So that's what you need to do. If I pay for the 7,5 x 1,2% of the amount of work in the month, then you're at the 10th of the month,
00:24:13
Speaker
And you don't know if he is outlasted or not. We knew that at the time not yet, if he is outlasted or not. But we wanted to grow and then we had to set him up and then we had to set him and then started this concept to grow. And because you have the theme of quality, you learn yourself very much do.
00:24:32
Speaker
our first projects, and now 4,5 years fast forward, where we tech enabled, what data warehouses, what process automation,
00:24:57
Speaker
What BI-Themen and what also KI-based reporting and controlling structures. Also this technical and that Know-how, how a investor thinks, how a deal works, what are the different steps?
00:25:16
Speaker
We are obviously so much deeper than we were in four a half years ago. with so much better people, because our own desire is of course growing up we therefore also have people who were not yet to be able to do this, I would say, to myself, be able to do this, then we also have to say, hey, we didn't look at ah But it's the same for massififs ah gushd was unforter and qualiate etc and imber reichnanggit as so this is shun kafe that's And you are at 35 people, what makes your Umsatz so 4-5 million?
00:25:52
Speaker
More. Very good. I think the is is
00:26:12
Speaker
It's not over-irdish, but it's already good. So EBIT, so 25%, 20%, 25%. And you have nebenher first a very successful company built, then you've already played whole study-thema through. And then also given a trust the name here it's a asmer set forforma of kaout dnja maascan histuium tema tokishpi when then let to its name here a umal aen We had a business company for a few years already, right?
00:26:40
Speaker
Tell us more. We had an office opening in April 2024. And then my dear friend former Deloitte colleague Felix Filbert, we got to meet with us.
00:26:58
Speaker
where you could invest, where you want to invest and And of And and thenmined a felix so yeah ang english muslim milround dan name ken by naptia nun ven for ta good you know why this ne fromunni we cannoon starsvis mi is pivered with mi mon de deachch with min neu eo seed vimon's revis nes we am ontoa but we vmm as neru is knowhow it can act the otherrut sos And then
00:27:43
Speaker
but can be with pressure or so, but we should always talk about it and see what could be potential companies that could be looking at. I'm not a professional investor, but I'm a Radial as a company. But it came then opportunistically, At the end of October 1924 was a friend of M&A-Berater, Block Management, I'm going to introduce you to Oli, the Laux & Meuras Group, a business business company in the area of Sanitär, Heizung, Klima and Technische Gebäudeausrüstung.
00:28:18
Speaker
Oli that they wanted to sell the brand
00:28:24
Speaker
and they won't even sell them to the same thing, but they won't sell them to the same thing and then put them to the private equity construct. And then I just said to myself, to whom will you then sell them? Because it's only financial investors or strategical investors.
00:28:39
Speaker
And I remember to remember that I said, then I just bought it out of the blue. And Ollie said, maybe that's not a bad idea. i Bring it together. And then I had my Co-Investor Felix and Moritz, who are also there,
00:29:00
Speaker
And then we had the first meeting in Frankfurt with the Peter Lauchs and Jörg Meuras. And that was from minute one to ultra good vibes on the personal level.
00:29:13
Speaker
And then that took us so the way. Then we had in the next month the whole thing prepared, we looked at the numbers, looked at the numbers, went to the Bitts, how you could structure the we have did you finance that?
00:29:32
Speaker
We have a bank financing. Because the company is profitable. She profitable. She is now more profitable. um leave leave profit tablel um is is yet notprofit har um We have a bank financing, we have a brokerage on the loan, we have a short amount of money, which is the minimum cash required under the... The brokerage is the owner, the then... The brokerage is a part of the price and the price is part of the loan.
00:30:01
Speaker
um And this loan loan loan
00:30:12
Speaker
has to signal liia stepankra he head out imanov skin in the game they gloped under the under the name We believe that the company will be so much to think about it, if the capitalization the capitalization is not too high. You capital.
00:30:31
Speaker
But then we took the whole path, we took over a financial advisor, who I really Marcus Fong from Just Finance, from the other hand, we took a financial advisor over the Deutsche Bank.
00:30:44
Speaker
ah marisio aled I and noch this finance modede felttic about the business plan no eitheror that's what the squiy fought in fired har no noro screen nanaus suanwi in know madam bu is finnancier a germanman song normally einfi i get often but ein tuman and that
00:31:13
Speaker
under The company makes about 12-13 million dollars. Now, we fresh
Financial Strategies for Growth
00:31:21
Speaker
budget. We will now in the group then on over 20 million dollars. have more targets, question. And um Felix... put that in mind?
00:31:34
Speaker
Gab es da noch mal einen Zusatzinvestor, der reingekommen ist? Es gibt jetzt mittlerweile auch einen zusätzlichen und Geldgeber, der im
00:31:54
Speaker
as a team, that we can just use some topics just to engage. That's the reason behind it. And personally, it's just a thing. What was your goal?
00:32:06
Speaker
You ask me something. We find that very, the people with people.
00:32:17
Speaker
can make the people great and automatizing, as you want. people don't pass, then you can just forget it. And now with Peter Lauchs, who is also Group CEO os and Board Member on del um the steam i runs for an hy and with and How many people are there? We are now 80.
00:32:37
Speaker
it's azik 90, also an die 100 und jetzt kommen durch den Zukauf nochmal so in mal alles so hingerichtet haben, wie wir es möchten.
00:33:10
Speaker
to sell or whatever, we know we just not. We are not always going to do that. Felix is now with full time as Head of Strategy and Operations and you can see that there is already a good thing and that you can really move to business.
00:33:33
Speaker
And what gives you that? How do you think that you have said before, that you always have something to do with it. I find it nice if you're not even your own own activities and learn to learn um more. And that's the most rewarding of this whole topic.
00:33:57
Speaker
That I'm through this investment a much better partner. That's actually the nice thing. I'm just noticing when I speak with investors that they don't We are not a competition. don't build a private equity company on it. I a better manager. That's great.
00:34:20
Speaker
and device skin now let's finish girl but doesn and the show t four yeah orta student and amva venous through field tament has tius suns and ni hut of about the perspective I um justice heardnael was kants andre his as team and the emperor realize realize this two guy anishsel demarcharistic to thai and um and father that And so I find it in this area also.
00:34:46
Speaker
Private Equity Berater sollte eigentlich nur der sein, der selber auch mal Private Equity erlebt hat und Private Equity gemacht hat. Und du verstehst das halt heute, wie gesagt, in einem Deal einfach den gesamten Kontext viel besser. Ja, so eine Financial- und Tax-DD, das ist ja so ein kleiner Streifen, der da dann stattfindet. Und dann It's time to had a capulate enarian and met them fer kofa the mess tuna punedwian nila but their focus licked gra guns were under so of me their bank ah kageched saidru my quotes or the etc pipe is it this this is firstten thises ipha complet andres and dan orvi get the
00:35:30
Speaker
Where are you going to go? Where are the challenges? That can you always be able to do it very well. But it yourself from vorne to back then you are going to do it much better.
00:35:42
Speaker
You also invested in Farien Gold. How did you get to that? That was a story. There was a big thanks to Moritz Neuhaus from Insight Consulting from Berlin.
00:35:55
Speaker
brought us in the LinkedIn-Out of the day gave us a bit of doubt about how we do it lot. i niga marson gutacht And I'm always in contact with him. He said that it was in July 2025, we were in America with my parents.
00:36:16
Speaker
And then he said that it was the 3rd or 9th or 9th of the day in Berlin. And there is also Nikita Farnholz Delivery Hero, a founder of FarnGold a founder of FarnGold.
00:36:34
Speaker
And I was to that time at the Gardasee, I was traveling. I was like, I think I'm going go somewhere. And then flew on the Saturday evening to the event from Verona from Berlin, and I flew with in Fahngold back to Verona. And this is sore this is avidazo tupushramih and farrindain on the nabij mih but him nikita and theha and and that me him super good for stness for me i meanvan in a faststinianific one at orgenruna sine and elo i can bullit ma no bru it owned um auto saage had andant naellem copf vdviscent dimike un then my baheim vo act it's in this ti um this that good sign That's
00:37:32
Speaker
I don't want to wait for a classic profit, but just in this network to be, to be able to meet these to be able to get the learnings laws to to become from who are already 100.000 times, as you yourself.
00:37:48
Speaker
and also being in a circle that you are so challenging because you are the small fish when you are at a society meeting and think that's great. That's just a great thing. I was so out the and for the person. I also invested in private equity because of the reason I think it's also a good asset a But just to Yeah, and that's for me also the key thing is the entertainment industry.
00:38:36
Speaker
Also, the entertainment industry is not, I make a thing for myself to 120%.
00:38:42
Speaker
I should do very well. Radial is point it's important to do one thing. Absolutely. That was also wrong. I mean that I don't completely agree with other things.
00:38:58
Speaker
That's what I mean. I mean that one thing in perfection, with best quality and maximum focus to do. But for me, it's not that it's end of the It's the said, what's going on. And just to look at what happens in your life. And I've made couple of investments in a which is for extremely rewarding, where learned a lot.
00:39:22
Speaker
from Gründer, which maybe things differently, what can then bring to radial. Then I made the own Private Equity Deal, which works now very well, because, as I said, one of my Co-Investors is full-time, because we have a great team, and I always have a good team, and I always have a strategy, but my time is now, I have a limit, which I invest in. Thank you much to my investors, which have a lot more gas.
00:39:51
Speaker
What makes me to a better advice. I think these topics to build and make, that is the most rewarding thing. For me, life is actually in order to collect moments, and experiences collect, which are important.
00:40:04
Speaker
but me but did to sleep maghistan um momented suamin dibiundndas sint onfaun and suaman dibisandndas sind Like said in other podcasts, you must be healthy and must be able to do it. I'm so grateful for that.
00:40:19
Speaker
But if that is given, then it's actually about it. not fall into this Muster, that the life is so... I think that people are not conditioned to the human nature.
00:40:34
Speaker
by this minus a achtens nita mensrina toch bricht de men they dingy elli mentioned vii arous for the roman outsets and glota runs this a hida mechte ylab notas file is azjaf de suconit sunascent in a certain way to think and that And for me actually the biggest fear in my life. That I look back and say, you haven't tried it and it. And I work very hard on that I don't do it.
00:41:17
Speaker
tas nitun with all the But there are some special moments for me. And that was a gold investment. That was the beginning of my wife's relationship with my wife, where I didn't know how to get the distance from. Or the Gründung of Radial.
00:41:52
Speaker
a good health and so, but it sets the on the subject. dis infamaticticizedist momentum li And the
00:42:10
Speaker
And these moments I try to
00:42:24
Speaker
Danke dir, Sascha. Vielen Dank, dass da sein durfte und bin gespannt, was deine Zuhörer dann sagen.