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#127 - Christoph Zöller | Wie kann Recruiting in der Zukunft aussehen?
17 Plays11 hours ago
Christoph Zoeller begeistert sich seit seiner Jugend für Unternehmertum – erste Jobs, eigene Events und viel Energie prägten seinen Weg. Während seines dualen Studiums gründete er Instaffo, eine Plattform, die Recruiting durch intelligente Matching-Technologie neu denkt. Heute ist er CEO eines erfolgreichen Start-ups mit achtstelligem Jahresumsatz.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
06:06 - Entwicklung des Recruiting-Marktplatzes
11:59 - Liquidität im Recruiting-Marktplatz
17:26 - Zukunft des Recruitings und die Rolle von AI
17:26 - AI-gestützte Interviews und Chancengleichheit
19:27 - Die Zukunft des Recruiting-Marktes
22:12 - Herausforderungen und Chancen durch KI
27:06 - Gesellschaftliche Auswirkungen der Automatisierung
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christoph-zoeller/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: thomas@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:07
Speaker
Heutiger Gast Christoph Zöller. Ich habe mich schon lange auf diese Folge gefreut. Wir hatten jetzt immer wieder mal Kontakt hinter der Kamera und jetzt ist es soweit, dass wir endlich einen Podcast machen.
Exploring Future Trends in Recruiting and AI
00:00:18
Speaker
Wir sprechen ein bisschen auch über die Zukunft von Recruiting und auch vielleicht, wo der Marketing geht, welche Rolle AI spielt. Da habt ihr, glaube ich, sehr viele Einblicke schon und Tests gemacht. Ich habe auch gesehen, du warst ja mal in Amerika und hast einen AI-Trip gemacht.
00:00:32
Speaker
um Aber starten wir vielleicht mal mit Kontext zu dir und dann gehen wir rein.
Christoph Zöller and Instafo Overview
00:00:37
Speaker
Thank you for the invitation. I'm also going to know you already 1-2 years ago. You've always been doing this because of the actually worked. So thank you for the invitation. I'm going to be here, Thomas.
00:00:50
Speaker
Maybe just to me as person. I'm Christian, 33 years old. I'm in Heidelberg. I've been in years in my studio Instafo. I'm a Recruiting-Plattform.
00:01:03
Speaker
I would say, probably in the digital environment, you know, three, four years intensiver, and it's still a little longer. We'll come maybe even more to history.
00:01:15
Speaker
But, yeah, what we're doing is we have a recruiting platform built, originally in Tech-Bereich, we started. Now we're doing this for Jobs in Tech Sales, Marketing, and also Anfangsjahres in Finals-Bereich.
00:01:31
Speaker
On the one hand, there are a lot employees and on the other hand, And we bring on the sides together and then earn money, when the job is changed. as just maclamo um with la iil but a thousand fim m doch parking al ho deutschant you and snuso and nova' exic andarant hele and yeah for now We a
00:02:03
Speaker
as a hoal right, good. A good job. I was about a conference. marketing,
00:02:25
Speaker
um That was I think about five years ago, when karish t suosstemava was not a big issue. You a huge LinkedIn profile. field Can you maybe go into the legacy of Instafo? Yes, I would like to think that's so exciting. I just had to just briefly get started. As we started Instafo, we
Scaling Challenges in Recruiting Platforms
00:02:41
Speaker
went live 2017. I was a little bit older than was going to do.
00:02:50
Speaker
han va van We were more than a business, so I say tech enabled Headhunter. We worked on the platform gaba to to hamdi ga about aba deceor bos into and but
00:03:07
Speaker
and name hamnayin buttons lordwe monnati um ferigo and alena loft said kikov you hamlan fishian dry on The and fee for a successful mill, was about 6.000-7.000 € fixed.
00:03:27
Speaker
Und was
00:03:52
Speaker
And that's of course very hard to scale because we noticed that the more companies we have, the more recruiters we have. And you had the problem that... Meistens I had a job at a talent pitch and if there was nothing to do and not assigned the people who are going to be in world, then was like, okay, that's it.
Marketplace Challenges and Solutions
00:04:16
Speaker
And as market place you want to do ideally, I think you want to do two things, so you want to not manually in the transactions, you want to be able to do not always have to do both sides and you want to do not just with a single inventory, so that is the one job, you want to say, hey, look, that's stuff, that's your advantage, as talent, come on, you see lot of offers and then you see a lot of offers and then um Can you do it? Can you do it? Amazon, Airbnb and the other way.
00:04:46
Speaker
ah on tech like And that was our example. And source of truth, because the places are all written out. You want know, when are they still being built, how are they still being built.
00:05:13
Speaker
That good job is very vergänglich. If we take the comparison to E-Commerce with Amazon, you have just a customer and if the customer is sold out, it is away. You can also send the customer in the recruiting area, um the um and as a bull for sufa is andinmar luhan suruni for shaking the vens andlo seen omfi in job allodo hasna locale um ah but grand songg only has concentrat of a grand songg in there as in youtate
00:05:44
Speaker
and we moscanskin now vison hay and junior job muslim junior prophfisa and middlele middleleve runs of vita on the forti ah since zeza and now pas knowledge kit Und Jobs sind entweder, sie werden besetzt, das ist teilweise auch in
00:06:15
Speaker
um on the aul san aba van corner And in the old model.
00:06:27
Speaker
ah And iag exact hey ah sn as was writer mahambo roan we born yettscarrada the <unk> pur and she gun an xten ane said,
00:06:43
Speaker
Das bringt einen höheren Value für die Talente, bringt einen höheren Value für die Companies und macht uns als auch wertvoller.
00:07:04
Speaker
And that was very, very successful and ah mont And I can't say that I'm not saying I'm really happy to say that if the market goes up again.
00:07:23
Speaker
That's good. Thank you very much. I thank you very much. I'm going to thank you very much. um That the and Unternehmen, the That's the same thing.
00:07:44
Speaker
What is your experience, the minimal consistency of a region, in a senior level, that Yeah, I think that, we'll probably get a little bit more on the dating.
00:08:07
Speaker
So in the dating area, and when you know dating platform, there's only a meeting and not a whole time. And there is then so that, even if you have a preference, say we're blonde,
00:08:24
Speaker
As example. um manzita nava philipleishna ahch And a profile of
00:08:40
Speaker
i me have shileish mal and kafe and she be sweat again and jobpara says andas paraise ah sneak so i sa with hey ahpi and but myha and yeah people i sat In
00:08:58
Speaker
artze hey kmi mal and order um it's been irgendwie einen Frontend-Developer, die suchen aber einen Backend-Developer, hört sich spannend an, es muss halt sehr, sehr genau passen. Also es muss einmal, wir hatten eben schon gesagt, die Location muss passen, das Gehalt muss passen, auch da ist die Sensibilität ein bisschen verschoben, wenn ich, ich sage jetzt mal, in
00:09:29
Speaker
But the Gehalt is on the same level very strong constraint, and location as well. I said, we are There are also remote and home office, the least ones who are at the beginning. Yes, I see the trend not to hybrid or in-office. People want to have the people the right? That's also a limitation in the sense.
00:09:52
Speaker
That's also the location. If you hybrid are limited, you are to the location. Because even if you are two days in office, three days home office... In the 40-Kilometer-Umkreis, right? Yes, we say 50.
00:10:05
Speaker
That's the time. And then is very stark natürlich Job-Rolle. And within the Job-Rolle are the skills. It's already extremely facetten-free and the...
00:10:17
Speaker
um um the ah Level, die du da abmatchen musst, die gehen sehr, sehr tief. Und das ist schon eine große Herausforderung in dem Marktplatz. Wie steuerst du da die Liquidität zwischen Talenten und Jobs in einem gewissen Bereich? Wie steuerst du die gut?
00:10:35
Speaker
Wenn man jetzt nochmal das <unk>ed platform hand named link and neron is at eleven dot filtered unsu tab say yeah ni so einvahe hagen nadi pa and lo the suintan of fa ne chos but at ty as I and to and man gets sandvia invahaba <unk> da if i guys ba volancy sotan its sutia Then it's also a limit of different attributes. That means that you have to I need to use in the region of Heidelberg, which means that there are no other companies companies that have in Heidelberg on senior level. So, do you have to do that?
00:11:24
Speaker
Is there a mechanism? Yeah, I think that's the simple get is the marketplace in a certain job vertical.
00:11:46
Speaker
And what we see is, we see from the job site and we see how many potential matchable profiles we have. And then we'll see how many of them are active in area of the Profiles. Because it's not a problem if someone has been active three years, and we say that we have 500 Profiles, just to name them, but we'll see how many of them match them.
00:12:09
Speaker
i an on site so nadida twelve and imagine gona the kuman son of man beastt activities And that's very much from job vertical to job vertical. And we look at it relatively often to the other areas we have.
00:12:24
Speaker
And that's also very, very exciting, because it's in the way, in the way, the way, in the tech and digital environment, so for dryan it's the aman not invisiblepa highke i from back kar and and on thealum fed
00:12:46
Speaker
to be more talent is
00:12:54
Speaker
higher. I see that also so, there are always jobs where it doesn't happen. And I think it makes it the most sense, and you are in the right areas, sales, tech, finance, right?
00:13:07
Speaker
Yes. Okay.
AI's Impact on Recruiting and Efficiency
00:13:10
Speaker
You were in the USA, you posted over AI. How can the future in Recruiting look like?
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's I had now a of, would rather say it was a coincidence, I was in America before I It was from a Venture Capital Unternehmen organisiert with other companies, hauptsächlich from Holland. It was super exciting, there are different Aisleys with them. the VC had a focus off edge on HR and is that we see from augmented
00:14:08
Speaker
a i or augmented and shayidrug and shaidun voyageish and feeling long and become of confident invehedatan situation census model wi wipe out come aszo does einfach their ex example to putes as that's weird on their exam putes one AI Hey, hier sind Daten, handel du.
00:14:29
Speaker
Kommen wir hin zu von, hey, ich habe die Daten, ich handel auch. And think that's lot of different areas we see in the job market. That's one, that it's a and more skills. What can the person?
00:14:47
Speaker
And I think that's a huge advantage of the job boards, because they are very, very bad at a good quality. to deliver and and a is, who will actually be in the hiring process? What would you say? Hiring manager. Hiring manager, the department.
00:15:16
Speaker
as with za and i founder hiring manager hiring manager fuckup Aber, und der Recruiter ist ja so gesehen dafür verantwortlich, einmal die Pipeline zu füllen, weil der Hiring Manager, also Hiring Manager slash Fachabteilung, keine Zeit dafür hat und sagt, hey, ich bin halt, wenn wir Beispiel an einem Sales Lead, ich muss hier das Team super viele Themen, gib mir bitte eine Pipeline.
00:15:39
Speaker
Dann in der Regel macht der Recruiter den First Call und der First Call ist ja nur so, hey,
00:15:55
Speaker
and Fachskill-unspezifisch. And then it
00:16:11
Speaker
And in this whole process is the recruiter a project manager. Hey, Thomas, need to know feedback. There are some questions, coordinators, later then then is the department at the end the important part the recruiter is so the whole constructs around.
00:16:37
Speaker
And with the beginning, that more processes are automatically automatized, we see that this is also, and that we are very active with working and actively working on it, that the
00:16:53
Speaker
recruiters will be more efficient with the staff. That means, when just three or four points parallel, can
00:17:11
Speaker
I'm the opinion that the first interview and
00:17:16
Speaker
not good is because it doesn't have a the First Call.
00:17:36
Speaker
What is it, if the First Call over an AI, which is probably better than most of the Recruiter. And for all them, right? And it can be done with everyone.
00:17:47
Speaker
That means I have then as Recruiter another one of ananmar inside the
00:18:07
Speaker
ah fund fun
00:18:46
Speaker
Interviewing. Podcast rauskommt, haben wir das vielleicht auch schon. Ich denke, in den nächsten vier bis sechs Wochen werden wir das ah again so life maho viin now orange pitzzsy fish for as one but the and development rep, you're doing calling, outbound, inbound etc.
00:19:14
Speaker
And where you also often have a of questions. And especially in Sales, the Soft Skills are more often relevaned than the Hard Skills, which you can just read from CV.
Standardizing AI Interviews: Benefits and Fairness
00:19:24
Speaker
And then you can do that once on our platform and you can use it for every business process.
00:19:29
Speaker
That, what you said, is super nerve, when every company, where I'm going to be, their own AI-interview has. Because that's leading to that, that's not a also niemand mehr rausfällt.
00:19:42
Speaker
Das bedeutet, ich werde zu viel, viel mehr Interviews eingeladen. Ich habe einen viel, viel höheren Aufwand. Aber wenn ich halt das einmal gemacht habe im SDA-Bereich und das dann an verschiedene Firmen, die da Zugriff drauf haben, ist das halt extrem viel effizienter.
00:19:55
Speaker
um Und einfach Chancengleichheit für alle. Plus, ich kann Career-Coaching noch mit drauf aufbauen kann sagen, hey, guck mal, du bist in dem und dem Bereich noch nicht so gut, schau dir das nochmal an.
00:20:07
Speaker
was ich glaube extrem sinnvoll für den gesamten Prozess ist und auch in beiden Seiten Effizienz einbringt. Das ist nur so ein Thema.
00:20:23
Speaker
Punkt Nummer eins. Punkt Nummer zwei, die Anforderungen werden viel, viel spezieller und so
00:20:36
Speaker
Und die gesamten Recruiter werden Tools gebraucht.
00:20:51
Speaker
Fit für die Company, wie baue ich das Team auf und mehr auf diese strategische Ebene und weniger von der Hands-on operativen Ebene zu kommen. I think there is of guammark um but da kasma oft transsic andon fantasticic and studio the report from LinkedIn, And There was a movement, where everyone my certain and chos of linkedin recordda chos one but it's some else mild and software engineer whole time and da but da so
00:21:22
Speaker
naste as lockdown wouldnt yeah de detect boy it's miss beforega hi and ah capsnipivego boida der irgendwie keinen Job hatte oder nicht wusste, was er machen soll, ins Recruiting gekommen ist.
00:21:49
Speaker
was sie tun, die die ed the skill, the profession, have jobs.
00:22:03
Speaker
there's a movement, where these people don't get jobs, they will get out recruiting job field. What but the seniors, who really have a really knowledge, who have a really good job in their profile and have a relevant track record,
00:22:21
Speaker
The people have in both markets a job. The scale has changed bit, but that's it. Yes, on the way. I think it always goes around the market. There are some of the things that are coming up and some of the things that are coming But you can give tools to the hand, so the way.
00:22:44
Speaker
um And where you see, how does the market develop?
00:22:59
Speaker
andcoing Also ich glaube schon, dass wir, also ich würde mal ein bisschen unterteilen.
Skillsets vs Experience in Modern Recruiting
00:23:07
Speaker
Ich glaube, Recruiting muss einfach viel, viel effizienter werden.
00:23:11
Speaker
Das bedeutet, und was wir auch ganz oft sehen, es gibt Recruiter, wie du gesagt hast, die sind sehr, sehr gut in ihrem Job. Und dann gibt es andere, die sind mit zwei Stellen einfach schon total überfordert.
00:23:22
Speaker
And I think that's not a especially for the Recruiting-Markt, but that's I say I always say to us think that's on every market. Also the software engineers, if you look at the whole Co-Pilot, Cursor, Lovable, how they all say, where they write software, the barrier is much, much, much, and that's for all junior jobs, and that's super hard for people who this year, next year, in the job of life.
00:23:55
Speaker
But also for people who have over several years now no competitive skillset developed, who just under the same time, I think they will have it in the future extremely, extremely hard, because they will have their weight or their weight or it will just be and or as i from schvaer that's to Because end it's a relatively simple equation.
00:24:22
Speaker
I bring the a job and a pay. And of course, better people will always pay. But the gap is, I don't know, you are Like a Nein, sehr gut. Du bist sehr gut und ich bin Mid-Level. Drehen wir Beispiel um.
00:24:41
Speaker
Und oftmals, das ist spannend, die Leute sehen ja, ob sie Senior oder Mid-Level oder Junior sind, sagen die ja eher an der Berufserfahrung. Aber sehen wir mal ganz ehrlich, Berufserfahrung ist da nur zum Teil relevant, weil ganz oft kommt es ja auf das Skillset drauf an.
00:24:52
Speaker
Sagen wir mal, wir haben beide 10 Jahre Berufserfahrung, sind auf dem Plattpapier Senior. Ich bin aber jetzt nicht so gut wie du, dann verdienst du vielleicht 20.000 oder 30.000 Euro mehr im Jahr.
00:25:04
Speaker
Or you work in and but I
00:25:21
Speaker
isia ah tri just fi about that's stuff for the sp andana at fifty best ah savi alni sofi And I think what just leads to this, that I in the case, the just worse is, will be used to be more than that because
00:25:55
Speaker
Und wenn ich da nicht den Drive habe, mich damit weiterzuentwickeln, glaube ich, werden wir, und das haben einfach ein Großteil in der Gesellschaft der Personen aus verschiedenen Gründen,
00:26:17
Speaker
hey, AI ist neu, Leute, die das früh adaptieren, haben eine riesengroße Edge, um That's not in We had inues are I in in I to have.
00:26:41
Speaker
aba club on chapter or act to um my staff unfortunateakruva um timmaas makaim me abas thatlabu vivaden so tial for extreme haral for the longgu state get out of quote for stick while ze I and extreme will create huge challenge in much more efficient, they will be automatically more efficient, more productive more valuable for the company.
00:27:15
Speaker
And through this automation will be very many people to lose weight and the company will ask them to ask them to do this again, I have a cost, will do this maybe earlier, if I have a good margin, will I do this maybe longer with company.
00:27:30
Speaker
But I think that will be a huge challenge. I'm going to say that in 20 years and I have for that topic, as I have prepared it, I have to do it last in the University of Manheim, I have to look at the latest technological shifts from the past.
Technological Shifts and AI's Promise for the Future
00:27:46
Speaker
And there was the Industrial Revolution in 1760-1840, there was an increase in the electricity in the late 19th century or the Automatization of Robotics in the production in the
00:28:01
Speaker
And that has always been to extreme overrefering. And long-term jobs created and new jobs created, than before we didn't have. And I think, slash, hope for the society, that we, even with AI,
00:28:17
Speaker
the english and that it leads to more freedom and more life. I think the huge challenge, and that's a bit philosophical and especially political, will be a little bit short-fristig.
00:28:30
Speaker
And short-fristig is then a time, so until a new generation in the work that grew up with this technology, where we say, hey, we're on a more equal level. because all of them grew up and computer and the internet.
00:28:52
Speaker
But a big thing is the whole thing, and that's what we do with the whole thing, what do we do with the whole thing, if the whole thing goes to the tech-concerting system, and the whole thing goes to the whole thing,
00:29:05
Speaker
ah america or thatsu call and tech on sangi um on ti then here kind ofroson met thems witha's team mande loitta andfa
Conclusion and Future Insights
00:29:15
Speaker
less work, because more topics are automatically done askka for by number there but it's a lang and of That
00:29:33
Speaker
um Christopher has really enjoyed me. It was very insightful. I would say we're still in the future, right? ah wind found In the next few weeks I'm sure I'm sure.
00:29:44
Speaker
Thank you, until then. Thank you, Thomas.