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#131 - Hans-Heinz Wisotzky | Warum verlassen Menschen Unternehmen und warum bleiben sie da?
18 Plays7 hours ago
Hans-Heinz Wisotzky ist Personalberater, Headhunter, Buchautor und Host des GainTalents-Podcasts. Mit über 25 Jahren Erfahrung im Executive Search und HR-Management teilt er praxisnahe Einblicke zu Recruiting, Talentgewinnung und Leadership. Sein Fokus liegt auf moderner Personalarbeit und nachhaltiger Mitarbeiterbindung.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
05:30 - Einführung ins Thema Employee Journey und Vorstellung von Hans-Heinz Wisotzki
15:45 - Frühfluktuation: Ursachen, typische Fehler im Pre- & Onboarding und konkrete Zahlen
38:10 - Homeoffice, Hybridarbeit und Bindung: Was Studien wirklich zeigen
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansheinzwisotzky/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: thomas@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Hans-Heinz Wisotski's Ventures
00:00:08
Speaker
Today we have again Hans-Heinz Wisotski to be in the perfect employee journey and experience. The work that works for the long-term, improving, improving, improving and improving.
00:00:20
Speaker
Overviewed is topic that I think is a topic that I don't want to have a little bit to get into it. Before I would like to be interested in you and your person. Maybe you can give us little context. game Yeah, very much. Thank you for the invitation to your podcast.
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm very happy to talk about my new book and I'm a executive search and the venture capital. ummd And, I have a podcast that I'm also a It's always about winning and developing talents.
00:01:13
Speaker
That's what I'm doing through my whole life.
00:01:20
Speaker
yeah it's fun to show a little bit And um yeah, I wrote two books. One came in two years, the one came out of two years. The new one came out of October. hours And now I'm going to be your questions.
Why Is Early Onboarding Crucial?
00:01:35
Speaker
it's
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, also I think there must be a There is the so-called Frühfluktuation and then there is the, in Anführungszeichen, normal Fluktuation. onruruwa song ranangngga d um And the most because in Pre- and Onboarding, also after the that there isn't really what is actually important, namely the people who are in it ours apply to korearean the to not a in teams.
00:02:39
Speaker
There are also between- men's topics, not only work. and a good relationship to the Führungskraft. So, ummandas alice nicheri is good from suniare and that of the Frühfluktuation.
00:02:53
Speaker
rings out on their father for awazfatras unta shrift piss some as and a weag as whenish starts awat gi a without me may list but i' no In a work, that you have to recruit,
00:03:07
Speaker
then there are even up to 30-40% who are going to go up. Because good talent have often not only one point for the new job, but maybe two three. And then they think that's another.
Strategies for Effective Onboarding
00:03:22
Speaker
Especially if you have a little bit of marketing and overselling in the Then you have bad cards and then spring mention up.
00:03:36
Speaker
and then you have start the search again. Yes. It's not expensive, it's also extremely expensive, because you know, choya iu is this our extreme schmatzsoft while we are named in koton you to start the whole process. And of course in the meeting with the hiring manager and all that is really very painful. And if you can avoid it, just watch how works.
00:04:09
Speaker
There are also many podcasts, or that book.
00:04:20
Speaker
There are the top cherries on top, which you have seen?
00:04:34
Speaker
I've seen so can the the in that time you can have communication. You can send a welcome package out, You can invite people to a team
00:05:11
Speaker
um So, these are things that are not difficult, they are not difficult, they are expensive, they cost not much. But they give the is The first the first day, but the days and first two weeks, they just need to sit.
00:05:39
Speaker
There needs to be a good onboarding plan.
Structured Onboarding Plans
00:05:43
Speaker
There needs to be a lot of review-throughs in the sense of feedback. How did that have you? Have you all the tools? Can you work? Can you part of our operative process? What is missing? This be friend of the people, friend of the people,
00:06:02
Speaker
and really focus on or a partner. now mont de peonzi ah expert seat iadan when deno mit aide And partner buddies.
00:06:17
Speaker
And many other things, but I think that's the ones that should be done. And you want to know more about it, there are checklists in there.
00:06:28
Speaker
There are no forgets. Very good. What is so high-end-lustration and when is as early the days or months weeks? and one giri de is for you in and in tagma ramonat nabo Also da streiten sich die Geister ein bisschen in der Literatur. habe ich auch viel nachgelesen. der Regel sagt man alles, was bis zum Ende der Probezeit das Unternehmen wieder verlässt. Monate ist immer noch frühe Situation, ne? Ja, genau.
00:06:57
Speaker
And others say, actually, even in the first year, everything that under a a a leading da was of veryistic good cast but dammo salon team uncom one mutaema un commonso den a yao vilyfo imrucon And to to is a is
00:07:48
Speaker
um whoa meet laja andnigael I would say that everything, what goes into the two-stitching area, is already high. So, let's say, you have 20 people assigned and then two are away. So, that's not good.
00:08:03
Speaker
Egal how big you are. And that can you just kind of skalier. There are companies, which have early fluctuations, I've seen, from 25% to 30%. And the people. Because the people don't care about it.
00:08:21
Speaker
They say, they live in the mindset, okay, HR has brought me the people here and HR has to do it now. That can do it, but I think it's not so clever.
00:08:35
Speaker
How could you do so like so de feelinging sco coming out highest field and scoed tune tomit a so what happens to happen? And what is Parade-Beispiel?
00:08:51
Speaker
So, it's already been so that when someone has written a few days later a short video of themselves as a Führungskraft. And then, you can say, hey, super that you are now on board. And by the way, in the next two weeks, there will be a following. You will get from us a welcome package. There is an onboarding plan, so that you can already have a little bit of a mental setting, what will happen in the first On the first day will be personally going to pick up and will able do that team.
00:09:20
Speaker
We're going to make a 20-minute check out for the first three days. We're going to make a check out for the first three days. We're going to make a review for you. What are you going to What's missing? What's missing? That's a 30-second video.
00:09:35
Speaker
And just send it out. I've never seen it yet, but you can make it. And you can also make it easier. it's easy. the other thing is, we're talking about employer branding in this context,
00:09:49
Speaker
If it's the other not, you do it and you do it with it. um And people talk about it, if they have a good experience. And it's not about the employee journey, it's about the experience that people have on this journey.
00:10:08
Speaker
There is point that we already discussed before. Why people leave there? Why do they
What Really Retains Employees?
00:10:17
Speaker
leave there? There is a extreme scenario where you don't have it in hand. You can't build a certain point. You're probably involved in a position and you have a position on a list and you must then execute it. That can't influence. But if that's not the case,
00:10:36
Speaker
and Yes, there are also many studies. think one of the is a study from EY from the year 2024. It was Gallup-Studio.
00:10:53
Speaker
um train find verylo suam ah at needs ones transantage own um doingsni a gallup studio in shugu garup studiod owned daga's life from fact one And The top factors were, I which gives me more, which is The second is more貴重.
00:11:20
Speaker
um avanishm wo an ab ku dan fo the punton are mayor v chezo bestssel fans of filmlongscraft fi and the enlu smoka and kaoff at long z sovei feedback sud vahi anu ahwa echman v by talk Or a different job. That can also be, if companies go and say, well, remote home office for us is okay. Or we have a relationship with three days home office, two days office. And if they that, they will return to the job. That's also the issue of the job.
00:11:54
Speaker
undan wasled all ofmar intertraant is um andishrulia ozanni yazwa thousand And is, the year 2023, that is this EY-Study, also Ernst & Young. What motivates the
00:12:14
Speaker
And there is very interesting not that Gehalt, it comes first at the 5th Stelle. First, a
00:12:27
Speaker
Then a fun and challenging task. Flexible model that's next. And then comes first a high cost.
00:12:36
Speaker
and What don't think is, but what I think is very good, that one thing is why people leave work. is the barro i mentioned albe for lessonen Fehlendes Feedback.
00:12:48
Speaker
okay Kannst du dazu nochmal eingehen, was da vielleicht dahinter steht oder was da die Gründe sein könnten? Also schau mal, du bist ein Jahr im Unternehmen und dein Chef hat einmal mit dir darüber gesprochen, oder deine Chefin, wie eigentlich so das ist, was du hier so tust.
00:13:04
Speaker
Ich meine natürlich mal ein Performance Check-in ist zum Kaffee, zum gemeinsamen Kaffee, alle 14 Tage, alle vier Wochen und dich die Menschen kümmerst.
00:13:20
Speaker
I know it is not easy today, Führungskraft to be. You have everywhere, the meteors, around you. You have many challenges. But hey, if you can still not only work with and in tetish card that's schscraft then you should also be careful about it. And of course, there is a lot of feedback.
00:13:45
Speaker
And think that's also very important point, to be clear in the here our department?
00:14:00
Speaker
dahinter jetzt nicht im Sinne von super gemacht, sondern ich werde ernst genommen eher. Und ich habe eine wichtige Rolle in der Firma, beziehungsweise meine Rolle oder mein Beitrag, den ich leiste, der zahlt darauf ein, dass man das herstellen kann, dass es eine gewisse
00:14:26
Speaker
Aber auch, dass diese gefühlte oder diese wahrgenommene Wertigkeit da ist und ich glaube, like The people have to believe in this way and that is also a sense view.
00:14:37
Speaker
absolute Absolutely. stress and the stress. ah But just to say thank you. It doesn't need much. Just to say thank you. Just to say thank good organiz yet word an english gu kuach word i'm from a tankkaag And then also of course, people in the team will be able move on.
00:15:06
Speaker
So that the others see, look, there has someone really, really good done. And that comes to the leadership, but it also communicates in the company.
00:15:17
Speaker
That's what look, that's really good. Maybe that's a bit of the motivation, the extra mile to go for the other people.
00:15:30
Speaker
But without these thoughts. It must come naturally and it must also come überzeugend. just because of every quack, someone on the shoulder to hit, like you said, that's too much. Then it's just believable and not more glaubwürdig.
00:15:44
Speaker
ye and And you have also written about researches, I believe, about New Work and Home Office. and What was new was? ahha That's the next podcast. Yeah, i have this book here with the dear Johanna wrote, Professor Johanna Barth from Reutlingen.
00:16:06
Speaker
She is at the university and and this And she has a principle of every employee journey phase, so a little bit of a book, Home, Office, Remote, New Work. Also, it's not only about Home, Office or Remote, also about How does your job look like?
Hybrid Work Benefits
00:16:27
Speaker
How does your job look like? How does your job look like? Or does it look like in office? hours now so And there are a whole series of studies where you
00:16:49
Speaker
The most important thing is that some of the studies from Great Place to Work are also made. Or there is a permanent study, which is kind like a panel from Florian Kunze, who is professor at Konstanz at the University. He was already two or three times in the podcast podcast, because he has every year about the latest results in the podcast.
00:17:14
Speaker
And there is
00:17:26
Speaker
And one of the main words is actually that physical presence, also in office, does not automatically have more connection. but it helps this hybrid work, if you say, Teil Office, Teil Home Office, the relationship to the when the employees already identify with the organization. if you say, you're all integrated identified, then that helps.
00:17:55
Speaker
But it's obviously only remote or home office, the fear of the Entfremdung. Also, isolation, social interaction is not enough enough.
00:18:08
Speaker
there can the emotional connection also lead. I had last year a we started experiment, the first time a junior-year-old worker to set up, because we had the team lead capacity to say, we build someone else, and to see how it works. I would say it worked very well.
00:18:32
Speaker
what you shouldang is had say good fromunni um Kunden haben das auch angenommen. Wir konnten dadurch auch ein anderes Offering fahren. Mit
00:18:55
Speaker
Zwei Wochen Gründungsfrist, ciao. Ich fand das sehr schade und ich fand es auch sehr schade, dass
00:19:10
Speaker
Office und so, dann habe ich gedacht, wir sind remote. Aber anstatt einfach dort zu sagen, nein, wir sind remote und blöd gesagt auf eine Policy hinweisen, vielleicht auch nochmal mehr
00:19:29
Speaker
just their own time. We people there, and we don't have the meeting rooms or the telephone boxes, it's just anstrengend, because a recruiter is in the general either with customers or with customers or with candidates. It's just anstrengend.
00:19:48
Speaker
um So it's a classic example, how you could have a slowdown, if you could just listen to it. How long was the person there? Three, four months. And that's why I find this Body-Partner-Prinzip so important.
00:20:03
Speaker
Because if someone's there on the side and the person has a little bit more time than the Führungskraft and just in these points goes, if that it's critical, then have someone on the hand.
00:20:17
Speaker
where I can open myself as a worker. And so this whole concept pre-onboarding, I believe, is very important to understand that are very engaged in the people. There is further point from these analysis. just talked about Great Place to Work.
00:20:36
Speaker
There was an analysis of 1,3 million people, so a really big study from 2024-2025. And it came out that the productivity at freeing the job the workplace is stable or increases.
00:20:53
Speaker
And the important factor for the binding is here about us fatron the the productivity of productivity, only because people are in the I have not seen international studies, which has evidenced that happens.
00:21:16
Speaker
and trust the Führungskräfte in the sense of, I don't want to control, when you're at home really at the screen or at the screen, and when you work really at work, that's a very important
Trust in Remote Work
00:21:28
Speaker
point. And if we go to the topic the Bindung, then there are three important factors that are essential for the research. The first is,
00:21:50
Speaker
Zweitens Führungskultur. Bindung in this Home Office Remote Kontext works only by Ergebnisorientation and That's what I'm doing as a leader.
00:22:02
Speaker
And the third thing is also something like a technical support. have bad situation Home Office or have bad situation where I have people who are maybe helping me, that's one of the most most frustrating factors. And then people verlassen themselves.
00:22:19
Speaker
when danfaasson mentioned open her name
00:22:36
Speaker
Also danach habe ich in den Studien jetzt nicht explizit geschaut. Ich könnte mir aber vorstellen, dass es natürlich especially so by young families and
00:23:03
Speaker
wheny m kind of home office smokeishkama Because this unity family and the family is very critical. And that is of course for people who are 50 plus are probably not so
Writing About Employee Engagement
00:23:18
Speaker
much. And for the young people who have no family, probably not. So maybe 30 to 40 in the day?
00:23:23
Speaker
Yes, that's I think so.
00:23:29
Speaker
no that hits off no
00:23:33
Speaker
Okay. um Was waren jetzt für dich die größten Erkenntnisse oder Überraschungen im Zuge des Schreibens deines Buches?
00:23:53
Speaker
ein Anliegen, dass ich das alles mal zusammen mit der Johanna wirklich aufs Papier bringe, weil ich glaube, sprint a niwin the einener journey faz and opis um fazu dealist he told sumaran as a ba spiel you must pre-ow um onboarding It's now world class and then you let it fall.
00:24:11
Speaker
Then you say, okay, outside of development of the career, the career of the career. da marish andorunor ima am ya onri yugori yolaish and I and to job and that's it.
00:24:35
Speaker
And that speaks to me about the team. At the same time, it was also so. At the same time, at the same time. That means you have to stay there. And this through-going, that is what is in the book, that is difficult in intellectual sense.
00:25:12
Speaker
in Du kannst morgens ins Büro kommen, strikt und schnell in dein Büro gehen, die Tür hinter dir zumachen und dann deinen Job machen. You can use the first 10 minutes to use, just a small talk with the people to make and look at the same time hello.
00:25:30
Speaker
It's always your decision, what you do.
00:25:42
Speaker
business, it's already not done. It's already a good role model. from yeah eastern from kaguoustro kagudhs role model and And what's interesting is, if you look at the of
00:26:08
Speaker
o leave the way, the you leave the way, way you can't leave way,
00:26:21
Speaker
If you do not do it, you will definitely do not return. But if the experience over the whole journey was good or to the holidays.
00:26:40
Speaker
Or you say, come on, come on, let's go on
HR's Role in New Hire Integration
00:26:42
Speaker
a coffee. How do you do
00:26:45
Speaker
Unglaubliche Effekte. That can be done on two things. Either there are people, individuals who just do it do it. And
00:27:07
Speaker
Ja, aber dann auch an der Stelle, da kann auch HR einen echten Beitrag leisten aus meiner Sicht. Wir suchen immer so Felder, wo HR einen guten Beitrag leisten kann, dass man da quasi wirklich Interaktionspunkte dem Hiring Manager oder der Hiring Managerin in den Kalender reinschreibt.
00:27:25
Speaker
So, im Sinne von Unterstützung. Hey,
00:27:36
Speaker
It's not rocket science. It's often just a little leadership. A nice finish word. I is Thank you again. Klasse podcast, klasse questions. wish all the good.