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Grimsmo Buys Surface Grinder, Saunders' Offers Insight
182 Plays4 years ago
Grimsmo makes a big move and purchased a Okamoto surface grinder! Saunders' offers his input and general advice on purchasing new machinery. The boys talk about the potential of using "Slack" in their respective companies. This could help bridge the gap between consumer and company and it is worth looking at.
Saunders has started to step away from his ERP system "LEX" to let his team run it. While Grimsmo works very very hard to get shipping Rasks before the end of the year, how exciting!
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Transcript
Introduction to Business Unmachining Episode 201
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the Business Unmachining episode 201. My name is John Grimsmough. And my name is John Saunders. And this is the podcast where John and I talk about how we think and make decisions around the CNC machines and our manufacturing businesses. Yep. And how they, I don't know, have been progressing over the past four years. 10 years, 15 years. Four years of podcast. But yes, 15, 15 of growth.
00:00:26
Speaker
I gotta say I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed last week's talk. Yeah, I did too. It's wonderful. Right. Just, you know, the trip down memory lane and makes just, just warms my heart. Well, it's interesting when you bring up certain conversations that it's like memories, but it brings up present day conversations because of the memories. Like we talked about a lot of cool stuff.
Motivations and Listener Interactions
00:00:54
Speaker
When there's this overarching theme of why are we doing this? And I think anyone who's listening and that wants to hustle, wants to build something has a self-imposed discipline or focus and
00:01:09
Speaker
And that's certainly you and me, but it's also refreshing to hear the, hey, we're getting along okay, we're making it somewhere. And then seeing, I think, was it Danny Rudolph was the one that stood out, but some other folks that kind of chimed in about data points of where their manufacturing entrepreneurship journey has been.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yep. Yep. You know, then and now four years later and we've all, I mean, especially through Instagram, we've all kind of kept in touch for the past four years. So this kind of this crew of growth and we're all fueling each other. Yeah. Yeah. And we're all getting older in life too. It's like, it's, it's progress, but it's cool.
00:01:48
Speaker
No, dude, that one hits you, because I try to always take the opposite approach of the default. So it's like, oh, you're getting old. It's like, OK, calm down. I'm young.
Recovery and Reflections on Stevie Ray Vaughan
00:01:59
Speaker
You know what I mean? The woe is me. How old is Amish now? Good grief. Yeah, he's going to be 100 by now.
00:02:04
Speaker
I don't know, old. But what hits me is I've been on the couch a little because I had tendonitis surgery after seven years of fighting it. And so I was watching a Stevie Ray Vaughan documentary and the guy's like a hero, incredible musician and guitarist. And he unfortunately passed away from a helicopter accident.
00:02:27
Speaker
Which just seems, it's tragic for many reasons, one of which is that he actually was a successfully recovered abuser and was clean and rocking and rolling in a helicopter crash and he was 35. And those moments where you're like, oh, he was so good and he, what have I done with my life? Man.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, it was a good, you know, I started all this to make stuff. I wanted to make stuff and I wanted to be able to make stuff and I think it's a better, it's noisier. You know, when you and I started this maybe 15 years ago, it was a little bit more Red Ocean, if you believe that book or I think that's a good Cliff
Red Ocean vs. Blue Ocean Strategies in Manufacturing
00:03:11
Speaker
Notable book. I don't know that I would recommend reading the whole book. What's it called?
00:03:15
Speaker
Red ocean blue ocean ocean shift I think is what it's called. Okay. I have it. I don't think I've read it yet. Yeah, don't don't I mean Yeah best but you know the idea that Blue ocean is new stuff stuff. It's never been invented red ocean is hyper competitive. You know, there's a
00:03:33
Speaker
For your world, there's a million EDC companies out there. Why would you think that you can succeed when there's a million others out there? Well, the reality is it's actually a lot easier in some respects. It's certainly different to go into a red ocean. It's competitive, but you've got the chance to jump into an existing marketplace. Blue Ocean is incredibly expensive to create something that doesn't exist.
00:03:54
Speaker
the cliched examples of tablet computer or self-help world or whatever. But when you and I started this, it's not that it was Blue Ocean, but it was Blue Ocean in that there wasn't the prolific hobby community and the social media community and the resources. I couldn't point to my wife and say, oh, it'll be okay. I know there's online classes I can take and there's other people that have done this that have been successful and there's software that I can afford. There's machines that are meant.
00:04:20
Speaker
There was no middle ground, there was a huge difference between the hobby guy in his garage that has like a grizzly and he plays around, that's where I started, and you, and then the legit machine shop. Like, there was not a lot of like, like today, you know, how many people do we know that has a $15,000 tormach in the garage and they're crushing? Yeah. Like, that didn't exist, I mean, tormachs existed, but they weren't prolific like they are now. Right.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, and it was a hard shift. So me being in the garage with the grizzly like dreaming of big shop, but it was hard to picture myself there, here, where I am now. It was impossible. Totally impossible. You don't think that way. It's a foreign world. And then like we talked about last week, you go tour a big boy shop and you're like, this is, you know, there's like a president to this company and he's got 15 employees and holy cow.
Storytelling in Manufacturing Experiences
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah, but that's where we become anchored in our stories and that's that harsh reality that no one cares except you and me in our respective heads. It doesn't matter that it was different back then because it was different yet again prior to that. And it's different now to what it will be in five, ten years.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, no one wants to hear your story about how hard it was. So it's just more of a- People do because it's relatable in whatever way. People like to hear the stories, the history. Yeah, they relate to it. I like to hear other people's stories and you just hear them talk passionately about anything and you're like, man, that's really interesting. I can take away some golden nuggets from that. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.
00:06:00
Speaker
I was thinking I didn't have any notes this morning. I was like, what's been going on? What do I want to talk to John about? And I was in a great mood. And I continue to not really have a to-do list. There's plenty to do. But it's showing that that idea is sustainable now. We've got
00:06:20
Speaker
all that, those phrases, the systems, resources, machines, like I hate saying that stuff, because it's silly speak, but it's true. It's necessary. And so it's great, and what happened was I had a moment where I thought, you know, one of those moments of clarity that I think, and I know you know what I'm talking about, where you just all of a sudden you see the bigger picture, you see where you want to think and focus, and what clicked this morning was when those, whatever, whatever,
00:06:49
Speaker
stimulus or environment or mood causes those to come about, those aren't things that you can say, oh, I should then revisit that in the next 20 minutes or to this afternoon. No, no, you gotta, you gotta be willing to say, hey, let's go down that rabbit hole right now.
00:07:08
Speaker
Right now. Yeah, I know I've got other stuff to do and I know I won't know but like now is the time because it's it's hot on my mind and it's very important Yeah, and and you kind of instinctively know I mean through experience past 1015 years like you know when that moment hits you and you're like I need to think about this right now. Please leave me alone, right? Well, but do you do you?
00:07:29
Speaker
I don't know how often those come to you. They're not very often with me. It sounds silly. This isn't like some like, I'm not seeing visions in the sky. You just, you just all of a sudden have clarity and you think, okay, this is, um, I want to gain this out in my head. Does that, does that happen to you? Yes, absolutely. Yep. Yep. And, uh, like it, it happens not, not often, but I don't know.
00:07:50
Speaker
Once a week. Oh, wow. Like every now and then It on little things it could be a little topic. It might not be like big world changing events kind of thing But every now and then I'm like, I need to pull that thread. I need to Yeah, there's there's something there. I need to spend some time on that And then I do do you
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Make a point of doing it. Good. I'm kind of on the opposite as far as the to-do list. I've been really enjoying my to-do list for the past few months. I keep a Trello board and I have for a few years where I have my brain dump list. So anytime I have an idea, I got an order from Uline, I got to make this thing, like don't forget to do that. It all goes in the list.
Productivity with Trello and Daily Tasks
00:08:31
Speaker
And then I sort it from there. So every morning,
00:08:33
Speaker
I look at that list and I look at my mind and I'll be like, what are the eight things I want to do today? So I write down eight tasks. And either I pull from that list or I do stuff I know that has to be done today. And then I don't go to sleep until they're done.
00:08:48
Speaker
Oh, wow. And you follow that. I do. And I track, you know, like on the fifth day in a row of crossing off the list, it's day five, day six, day seven. And let's see, what am I on today? So I keep a notebook in my pocket.
00:09:05
Speaker
Oh, are you are you willing to share your list? Today's day 36. I don't have anything written for today. But I like it even more. Yeah. Yeah, I don't sometimes I write it the day before because I know there's stuff that has to get done tomorrow. But often it's like noon and I'm like, Okay, I know I got stuff to do today. But yeah, good. Interesting.
00:09:30
Speaker
What have you been up to this week? Well, let me look at my list. Yesterday was ordering some
Magnetic Pin Finishing Tumblers for Deburring
00:09:37
Speaker
stuff. I ordered a magnetic pin finishing tumbler. You ever seen those? No.
00:09:43
Speaker
They take these little tiny needle pins, stainless steel, and they put them in a small bowl like a big coffee cup, kind of not too large. And there's a magnetic spinning disc on the bottom that just whips around like, I don't know, many hundreds, if not thousands of RPM. And the little magnetic pins just kind of spin. And you put your small parts in there and they deburn it. They burnish them without really removing a lot of material.
00:10:10
Speaker
I have seen this. So my good buddy that I used to shoot with runs an ammo company and lots of folks would tumble their brass in walnut shells or corn cob media. And I don't think he came up with this trick, but it's genius, which is he bought millions of these pins that are probably, I'm going to guess a 32nd 30, 30 foul, 40 foul, whatever that is, half a millimeter and probably about a quarter inch long. Same.
00:10:37
Speaker
I mean, you could pick a scoop up of 500 of them in your palm. And he would just put some Dawn soap detergent in a large tumbler and tumble the cartridge brass in these things for, I don't know, four or five hours. And it would come out looking cherry. Yup. Yup. And the difference between the magnetic tumbler versus a bowl tumbler is the action. It's just way faster.
00:11:04
Speaker
So like 30 minutes on this device would do it. Interesting. So I'm making these parts on the Kern that are lock bar inserts and they're made from 58 Rockwell stainless steel, like a blade steel.
00:11:19
Speaker
And they're coming off, like I'm chamfering them, but they're coming off with some burrs and, you know, I'm cutting hard and it's stainless. So the tools definitely wear a little bit. So I'm like, either I try to mess with these burrs on the machine or I do a pin finisher where I can like, you know, post-process them and kind of deal with the natural burrs that the material and tools want to have.
00:11:41
Speaker
So I I thought pin finishers were like 10 grand in my head because that company tech mix that makes the tool holders Yeah, they have a big one. It's like a big boy fancy PLC controlled one and it's 10 grand So in my head, I'm like, no, I don't want that but you can get them for like 500 bucks for a tiny little one Okay, cool. And yeah, your your parts are tight. Yes So this one has a four inch diameter bowl, which is plenty for these tiny parts and like proof of concept done
00:12:08
Speaker
Have you put them in there? I ordered it yesterday, it should be here tomorrow. That's awesome.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. And you do a detergent or liquid? Yeah. I saw a video that says, it's not just soap, so don't just use soap. I bought their fancy detergent liquid. You see that, usually the more defensive the company is, the more I'm like, OK, it's just soap. Yep. So it was like $30 or whatever for their jug. But yeah, I'm super pumped about that. And funny thing, I was talking with a buddy this morning, and he's like, are you still excited when new machines get delivered?
00:12:44
Speaker
Is it as exciting as it was, you know, years ago for the first few machines? And I was like, it's still exciting, but it's not like nerve-wracking or like, I'm giddy like I used to be. It's kind of like our service grinder is getting delivered now-ish soon. We're on the podcast, I'm probably going to miss the delivery and I'm cool with that. It's good.
00:13:06
Speaker
So yeah, it's still exciting, but it's not like... I'm almost as excited for this $500 pin finisher. Right. I love that. They don't compare, obviously, but you know, my internal giddiness is like, yeah, I want to see if this thing works. I'm actually really excited to see how you guys get along with the Okamoto.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, me too. The more I think about it, the more uses I have for it in my mind. And we bought it to surface grind blades, which is what it's like for. But yeah, there's so many little things. I'm thinking if I can surface grind the lock inserts, at least on one side, and then machine them.
00:13:41
Speaker
lots of other things. So it's going to be amazing. Oh, your lapping machines are going to love you too. Yes. That was the other. That's like the main reason. Yeah. Because right now we're lapping through the double disc finish. We're lapping off like two or three thou. And with diamond lapping, just it's not happy doing that. It takes too long.
00:14:02
Speaker
Did you end up sticking with the kind of basic control on the Okamoto or did you get with the CNC? I went with the it's a full CNC like you're not going to grind a contour like up and down but it is a let's call it 2.5 axis. Can you load a program?
00:14:20
Speaker
Yes. Okay, great. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Okay, that's really cool. Yeah, so you can tell it I want to remove, you know, five and a half thou and spark out the last three passes and auto dress it every thou or something. They have a top mounted dresser, and then you can instead get a table mounted dresser. So the machine actually like moves like a like a tool setter on the mill.
00:14:44
Speaker
Like the grinding head moves to the corner and dresses on the table. And apparently the table one is slightly more accurate, so I got that upgrade. And yeah, electrician was in this week. Got it wired up. Got the transformer in. Everything's up on the wall, not on the ground. Nice. And yeah, wired transformer.
00:15:06
Speaker
Because we're at 600 here and it's like 208 or something for the grinding. I'm so envious that you're at 600. That's awesome. That's really nice. That's really cool. Yeah, it should be an awesome machine.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, pumped. I keep thinking about little quips you make about like, no, don't even touch it, let your team touch it. And it's, I don't need to learn it. I want to from like the nerd side of things, but even if I have something I need to grind, I would just have my guys do it.
00:15:41
Speaker
And that's okay. I'm coming to terms with that. That's a good thing. I want them to become the experts at it. It's like the lapping machine. I've never touched it. I've had it for two years. And I'm happy with that. Are you going to be able to recondition your laps now? In what sense? I thought you guys had those sent out to be ground every once in a while.
00:16:04
Speaker
out replaced like they pull off the ceramic rings and they glue new ones on or whatever. Okay, nevermind. I thought there was some reconditioning element to that. Yeah, we noticed that they're actually wearing quite tapered. Like this ring is now crooked.
00:16:19
Speaker
and it's causing some issues like by 50 thou in thickness. What? Yeah, it's weird. So they're wobbling as they rotate. Sure. Because they don't always spin properly. There was an upgrade for the lapping machine where you can get a gear driven ring spinner. And we didn't because we didn't know. Got it. Because they naturally spin kind of, but they also stick. Right. Anyway, yeah, we should have gotten the,
Live YouTube Session on CNC Machine Purchases
00:16:48
Speaker
that ring spinner device and also plate cooling like liquid cooling through the machine. Those are two things like the machine would be way better if we had gotten those two things.
00:16:58
Speaker
Well, on that note, when this airs, the live video will be available, but the live portion will have since passed because Wednesday, this afternoon, two days before this airs, we're doing a live YouTube on advice and mistakes that we've made, but mostly tips and advice on buying CNC machines. And we threw up some mentions about it, both to hopefully get some folks to join in, but also to get some questions.
00:17:25
Speaker
And I'll tell you, I am super fired up because if there's one thing I really do enjoy, it's kind of sharing and guiding in that process for folks that want to listen or have questions.
00:17:37
Speaker
We've gotten so many questions, and I'm realizing, okay, we're going to keep this one kind of focused on general type stuff, but I could see us going down a different rabbit hole in future dedicated videos, like, hey, we're going to talk specifically about going from a hobby to your first VMC, or we're going to talk specifically about buying a lathe, or specifically about tooling up or buying a five axis, because
00:17:58
Speaker
there's obviously benefits of being able to go deeper down rabbit holes, but getting these questions immediately just showers you with those memories of what it was like when you weren't sure about what's a spindle taper like and can my machine even handle this and what do I buy and what's important options and how do I think about that and how do I negotiate it, how do I pay for it, all that stuff.
00:18:23
Speaker
I remember the dread and the fear and the worry and the unanswered questions of all of those things. And that's valuable advice to give to someone who's, we've been there several times, and we've both got many machines that we've bought new. And to give to somebody who's buying their first or second machine, that's awesome.
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah, and there's more, I mean, look, there's more and more kind of coming back to the beginning of this talk. There's more and more options out there, which is generally a good thing, but you can, you can accomplish more with what I think carbide 3D just came out with a couple of new like upgrades or nomads and people goes and bantams got their machine. Um, and you know, Torbox getting some competition now. And, um, obviously Haas has been writing discounts and, um, it's kind of fun to.
00:19:13
Speaker
think about all that and I think the overarching theme that I'm going to start off with is to remember that your job and it's probably the hardest job out there as an entrepreneur is ultimately you've got to
Personal Decision-Making in Business
00:19:26
Speaker
You gotta absorb and learn and consume resources and folks, mentors, advice, people, reviews, but ultimately you've gotta be willing and able to form your own decisions and own opinions and decide what's gonna work for you. And that's not, that's the one thing I think they don't kind of tell you is no one tells you when to buy a machine or what not to buy or you're saying that that lapping stuff should have been bought, the gear and the liquid cool. But John, I mean, I vaguely remember you were
00:19:56
Speaker
You were not interested in spending another four or five figures on those machines back then. You just weren't. Well, for sure. Yeah, that was two plus years ago. Even if you talk to somebody who was a lapping expert in your friend, I don't know that that person would have been able to say anything that would have convinced you. I'm not challenged. I just don't know. It was not an easy... And at that point, you're relying on the salesman to sell you on those upgrades.
00:20:24
Speaker
I've had good and bad experiences with that. You want to trust their knowledge and their experience. And they've got machines in their lab department. And they test them and talk to their apps guys. And they're like, you don't need this. And you do need this. And I'm like, OK. But now after running it, I'm like, I don't live life with a lot of regrets. And it's not a regret. But it's like, man, life would have been a lot easier on that lapping machine had we gotten those two upgrades. And we can't upgrade now. If we could, we'd have them already.
00:20:54
Speaker
Trade them in. Trade the whole machine in, you totally could. Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Again, at some point it comes back to the, let's say you hire Jason, whatever, to become the CEO of Grinsville Knives, and he steps in and he's like, okay, I sell them for X, I buy, trade them in, I buy new ones for Y, it's this much stuff, problem size, it gets us the equipment we need. I just, eight minutes later, we're moving on to the next problem that's gonna make this business better.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, you get stuck in your own complacency. And you don't see those things often. You're right, that's totally an option. It's that business decision that is difficult to separate yourself from. Yep. Yeah. What were we talking about on the WhatsApp so extensively that I wanted to bring up about
00:21:47
Speaker
Oh, not rigging. What are we talking about with those guys buying machines? I don't remember. I don't remember either.
00:21:55
Speaker
If I think of it I'll bring it back up. I did have a question for you if you've heard of this or if anyone listening has which is If slack it would be a good tool for us to implement the key being I'd like a way for us to communicate within The Saunders machine works, which I know slack will do quite well. It seems to be the kind of leader at it, but
00:22:20
Speaker
but also handle external communications. And like, for example, I know when I messaged with people at like Autodesk, I emailed somebody and their response to me, which comes to my email, will sometimes include like an at John Doe in the body of the email, which I believe goes to that person's Slack and not their inbox. And so my thought is when we're dealing with
00:22:47
Speaker
you know, quotes or customer service questions or post-sale support stuff or vendors, the ability to do so in a more open manner with something like Slack means that you don't need to go through CC abuse where you're trying to just CC everybody and if somebody's out or somebody's busy, somebody else can be like, hey, let me look up that order, I can see all the correspondence, we're not mixing messages, I can check on where status is, you know, I would send
00:23:15
Speaker
When we place it in the McMaster MSC order, I would just send the responses to Slack because then anybody could just kind of see what's up. There's no reason for that to be in my personal work email. But I don't know how complicated or if it's at all possible for Slack to do
Using Slack for Business Communication
00:23:31
Speaker
that. And I'm curious if anybody has any advice.
00:23:34
Speaker
Me too because I know almost nothing about Slack. Sounds like you know more than I do at this point because I've never used it. I've never touched it. I'm kind of avoiding it. But I've heard a lot of people say we don't really use email anymore. We just use Slack now for everything. And I see the painful inefficiencies with email and
00:23:57
Speaker
Like Fraser and I shared this, like he's in my email and he answers questions and I answers questions and he does most of it.
00:24:09
Speaker
It's like on WhatsApp, you know when somebody's read your message. You know when they've received your message. Oh, do you? You have little blue check marks on the bottom. Oh, I've never even paid attention to that. Very important. But it's like with email, you're just dumb. It's like you send it and you don't know. I assume Slack has more feedback. It's new technology. Maybe we should look into it more.
00:24:33
Speaker
I will keep you guys posted where I learned. As soon as I start realizing what that could do for us, I'm like, oh, that would be a breath of fresh air.
Impact of COVID-19 on Team Communication
00:24:44
Speaker
We got COVID-ed this week. Luckily, everyone's healthy and either asymptomatic or no health issues, but it's really hit our area of the country this past two weeks. So between people either being sick or having family members or quarantined or contact-traced,
00:25:04
Speaker
I'm beyond happy that, again, it doesn't actually seem to be having a direct health impact or quality of life impact. But boy, if this is the worst 2020 gets, which we've only got two weeks left, I got no complaints. We will get through this, darn it. But we've been working as a distributed team in some elements. And so, again, having that open communication would be great.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, super important. What have you been up to lately?
00:25:37
Speaker
I've had to take it easy this week because my arm and We've been getting some we've had some folks kind of get finished getting onboarded We're really nailing down our processes, which is just awesome I've even transitioned myself out of Lex. So now others are issuing the POS and I mean, I'm involved in it, but but I'm not tasking it anymore
00:26:02
Speaker
We created a new thing, so we need to make it function and be useful. So, for example, when we send fixture plates to anodizing, it used to be, I would hand-write the POs in Excel, because Lex didn't exist. And then we got Lex, but we only created a generic PO. And then we realized, well, we need some information on the different sizes, because that's quite relevant to how the plates are processed. So I created a generic
00:26:32
Speaker
Lex IDs for each size. Well the problem with that is that you don't then know exactly what is at Anodize and or whether it's a pre-sold plate or whether it's just for inventory. So we created and this is one reason why Lex is never gonna be something that's sold. It's hyper specific and it's not perfect. Like we're doing what you shouldn't do which is kind of like just figure it out as we go. But every fixture plate that gets anodized now has a separate outside vendor
00:27:01
Speaker
or number. So it's a number that just represents the work in progress at that state. And so basically when we want to send stuff out to anodizing, then we need to click on each one of those that we're sending to create the PO, which fun fact also sums up all the weight so we know how much weight the freight is for our bill of lading for the LTL freight company.
00:27:25
Speaker
But what I didn't like was it was a pain in the butt when we're ready to send something to Anodize to say, oh, I got to go figure out what all these different Lex IDs are for the F2 plate and a Fidal plate and a Tormach plate. And so we wrote a new script or section in Lex, which lets us create, save and maintain lists.
00:27:46
Speaker
So basically anything that goes to a specific vendor can now be printed out, I'll hold one up here with my left arm, and it creates a multi-page PDF that we can then print out and laminate. So when we want to send something out to Anodize, I just flip this open and I just look through and I say, okay, yep, here's a Twirlife XL plate, here's a VF2YT plate, here's a DC2 plate, and I go zip, zip, zip, zip, and that adds them to work orders. And then those get converted to the PL3.
00:28:16
Speaker
So it's a printed list of barcodes and you just scan the ones you need to get a reference. Yep. And then we can edit it over time, reprint it as needed. And so again, there's no excuse. I guess you still have to look through the list, but I don't...
00:28:34
Speaker
eventually we may have to figure out how to organize it. So there's a, again, a Haas section, a VMC section, a Formach, whatever. Version four, you know? Yeah. And yeah, that's what we're gonna do.
00:28:47
Speaker
That's awesome. I watched your video from, I think it was three years ago, where you made QC sheets, quality control sheets, and you sent it to Pearson, and he reviewed them and stuff.
Evolution of Quality Control Processes
00:28:57
Speaker
Because somebody on Instagram mentioned it to me, and I was like, okay, yeah, let's go watch that video again. It was a great video. It showed the iteration process, and it showed Pearson being like, I love it, but change these things, and you came back, and you're on version five, six, whatever.
00:29:11
Speaker
It's just great. It's funny watching that and tying it into what you're doing now and you're so much further along, but still using the same kind of practices. You've been at this for a while. Those should be digitized, actually. We'll get there. You said that in the video. Oh, did I? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're still using them? Oh, yeah. Every day. Absolutely. See, it's like you put the hard work into something upfront, and then you end up using it for years. And it just works and works and works. And then you kind of forget about it. It's just part of your business now.
00:29:41
Speaker
That reminds me, we need a new metrology tool. This is what happens when you're on the couch. I flip through the whole stare at catalog, which is also just fun. That's actually funny because you asked like, does a new machine get you excited? And your answer was kind of not like it used to, but I still get pretty fun looking through catalogs like that. For sure.
00:30:03
Speaker
I actually still look through like the Travers tool when it comes like the little flyer because it's like the same time would you like? So, okay, we make fixture plates that have holes in them
00:30:17
Speaker
We measure the parallelism of the plate by using a standard one inch mic around the edges of the plate, not complicated. We also own specific throat mics or depth deep throat mics that will allow us to reach further into the plate to measure the distance between the two planes of parallelism.
00:30:42
Speaker
Which works, but obviously that has the limitation of the throat mic. They're much more finicky. It's easy to put a small cosmetic blem if you're not careful. It takes time. It's just not what you want. And so what I realized is a depth mic would be great, but
00:30:59
Speaker
So a traditional depth mic has a face and an anvil, but the face should rest on the top surface, and then it has a post or an anvil that would push down to find the bottom of a feature. And it's like a T-shaped item. Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
the stem goes down. Digital we'd get for sure. Except I don't want a depth mic that measures down into a blind hole because our holes are through holes. I want a depth mic that could go down into a hole and then you say slide it over. And it'll grab it or something? Well, and then you actually measure the depth by measuring back up after you've gone through the hole. So you want a micrometer that fits through a hole?
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And I thought, well, we could just take a depth mic and buy or make a, what would you call it, not a lollipop, but a disc, a coin disc on the end, which I've seen these on regular mics that have like two flat, instead of having traditional two micrometer bars, it has like a much wider disc, like a disc, I guess, probably a disc mic.
00:32:04
Speaker
But I didn't see anything off the shelf. And we could, obviously we could use a reference object like a gauge block or something to just become coplanar. But I want a single tool that's hands-free and does it all on one. You're not effectively doing a transfer measurement or additional risk of something.
00:32:21
Speaker
Have I heard any thoughts? No, I have no suggestions for that. The easiest in my mind is to use a regular depth mic and, as you said, put a gauge block behind it. Yeah. And figure out some, I was going to say magnetic, but half your fixture plates are aluminum. Right. You know, so that doesn't work. You can buy magnetic aluminum. What? I'm just kidding. And like, I guess you can't just put it on a big surface plate and depth the mic down to the surface plate.
00:32:50
Speaker
So you could. That is not a solid or sound metrology practice because in an unconstrained state, the plates are not nearly as perfectly flat as they are parallel. Sure. Which is not an issue. I mean, if there's 6,000 or 15,000 bow across a 40-inch plate, it doesn't matter. It quickly gets pulled out. It gets bolted down, yeah. I guess you're looking for consistent parallelism across the thing, whatever, regardless of bow. Bingo. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:19
Speaker
Again, we do have ways of doing it now. It's just slower and I've been thinking a lot about, I think I said this to you on the podcast, but when you need that source of inspiration or direction, it's that next time you visit my shop, hashtag 2021, I want you to just
00:33:41
Speaker
see things be like blown away. In a fun way, in a pride way, not an ego way. Like, oh, I didn't know that you could do this tour. They have these handmade jigs to do, we built a little jig to do QC on quarter inch bodices. It's freaking great. I love it. I want our shop to be filled with those things so that you walk away.
00:34:01
Speaker
Having respect for the business that we built and the investment in the processes, it's a sign of how we do things. And with ideas. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because, I mean, that's something you and I both love to do, is share ideas. And half of the ideas that we end up sharing are not on purpose.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, we do that on necessity. No, it's not like hey look at this thing. It's really awesome It's like somebody's touring the shop, and they're like what is that right like oh that thing I forgot about that thing what you want to know about that and they're like yes Yeah, like that's what I like Because you get that in the video comments sometimes. It's like people like hey go back to that thing at 27 seconds You're like what is that?
00:34:42
Speaker
Even loading the VF6s with the Skyhooks, I wasn't like on the fence because the cart was great, but it wasn't as clear to me that those were going to be as good a solution to load the material until, oh my gosh, they get used hourly now. And then Amish was like, holy cow, that could be the solution for his DMU 50, which I don't know if he went forward with it or not, but yeah, it's awesome. That's so cool.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's been two years, just two years and a few months, I think, since I've been at your shop. Oh, really? Yeah, I think Leif and I came in 2017, 2018. I don't even think I can come across the border right now. Yeah. I think I can come into the U.S., they don't care, but coming, I don't know, coming back, they don't want me to or something. Whatever. When things are all good and settled down, then love another visit. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah. What do you have to do today or this week? So I just got a quick WhatsApp notification that the Grinder should be here in the next hour or two. Sweet. So that's cool. Again, I'm just probably going to be on the current while it's getting delivered, which is cool. Like, you guys take care of it. I'll watch from a distance.
00:36:00
Speaker
I haven't been filming videos in months. I'm kind of okay with it, but the guilt is starting to set in. I want to. I'm just kind of really okay doing my own thing for a little while. I definitely want to get back to it, but it's this weird juxtaposition where it's like,
00:36:20
Speaker
I know everybody wants it and I know I want it for my business and for, you know, to share and everything, but it's like, I'm kind of good right now. Yeah, then good. Yeah. I refuse to succumb to the need. I mean, a social media expert will tell me this is a mistake and I don't really care. Of course. Like, I don't consistently post on Instagram. I love in engaging with folks and sharing, but I'm also, I'm, you know, no, I'm not going to do it for the wrong reason.
00:36:46
Speaker
No, we got our own things going on. It's funny because people will DM Fraser and they'll be like, it's your job to make videos. What's wrong? You're not doing your job. And he's like, I'm busy like 40 to 50 hours a week anyway. It's not that I'm not doing anything. You just don't know what I'm doing because I'm not posting. So whatever. Anyway, I do want to get more videos out. I have a lot of great ideas. I've been tracking them in Trello. And the Grindr delivery is going to be a cool video and a lot of current stuff, a lot of Rask updates.
00:37:16
Speaker
And it's, I just have to start, you know, it's like that one day you just gotta pick up the camera and start talking to it.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, just do it. Yeah. Yeah. Just do it or not, you know, or just whatever, whatever feels right. Yep. I'm definitely hitting that stage where I feel like I've deserved, I've earned the right to share a little bit more about the progress that we've made. Yeah. And not just be a sayer, but a doer. You know, Hey, this is, it's that shop. We did the kind of first half of that shop overhaul video, which I was really proud of it. And now we're, we're really, in fact, literally this morning,
00:37:51
Speaker
One of the new folks that's come on board to really help out with a lot of stuff sort of said, okay, I'm getting caught up. What's next? And okay, good. We've got new Royal mist a ways to install that have been sitting in the box for a week. And then, you know, starting to do the Lex location ID stuff, some maintenance stuff. Oh, we just installed PSA took it was kind of pain in the butt, given what I expected, but IOT flood sensors.
00:38:16
Speaker
So we put four of them throughout the shop and I did a quick check with just pouring water nearby to make sure they would trip and I would encourage anyone who has a 55 gallon tank of coolant in their shop or especially if it's in their house or garage to pick up some sort of a flood alarm. We did not have a problem but we know, you and I know many folks that have. So what does it do, it emails you or something?
00:38:43
Speaker
So we ended up going with the Samsung smart things. Yeah, like Amish has been saying for you now.
00:38:49
Speaker
Yeah. And unfortunately it looks like they're kind of getting out of that business. It's hard to tell. We actually had to buy it on eBay because new versions weren't available. And I don't know if that's like a COVID supply chain disruption, but it's, it's not complicated, but it's not so intuitive because things like that will interface with things like Alexa or Google. What are they? Google's thing called voice or something. Yeah.
00:39:14
Speaker
But you still need like the smart things hub that interacts with both Samsung and third party sensors. And then I actually am not using anything like an Alexa, although I might in the future, but rather for now you can then do an IFTTT if this and that app.
00:39:30
Speaker
So anytime the flood sensor gets tripped or the flood sensor batteries go low, I get an alert. Now, we might take that up a notch with emailing other people or some sort of an audible alarm, but for now I just want to make sure it's working and I get an alert.
IOT Flood Sensors for Shop Safety
00:39:46
Speaker
In a perfect scenario, do you like having multiple systems? Like you have the Samsung system and then you have the IFTTTU website and they're all kind of, they all have to work together.
00:39:59
Speaker
The SmartThings app can notify you on your phone. I don't think of them as siloed things. That's a pretty proven out flow of things, where one talks to the other, which talks to you. And I guess there's the crazy if this and that could break or be down. But we've been using if this and that for our air compressor drain for years, and it's been pretty reliable. Cool. Yeah.
00:40:25
Speaker
Good to hear. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have any flood sensors at the moment, but we really should. Yeah. Just buy one. Just do it. You should not touch it, but to have Sky do it. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Or somebody. Yeah. Easy. Sweet.
00:40:41
Speaker
Sweet. Good. Hey, next week, let's talk about the year review. Yeah, year review. I enjoy that. I think it's a good thing to reflect on. See, we actually have two more Wednesdays before the end of the year. Oh, sneaky. Okay. Yeah, okay. Arrasque shipping?
00:41:02
Speaker
Not yet, although just yesterday, the day before, yesterday, I've had this one prototype in my pocket and I haven't liked it. It's got lock stick, the detent's wrong, certain features, I just hate it. Sounds terrible. Yeah, exactly. Because I'm now seeing past the handles, the blade, whatever. Now I'm going for fit and finish and feel.
00:41:30
Speaker
I replaced the lock insert with some new geometry ones and it feels almost perfect It's like a huge difference from the day before So I just told my wife like yesterday last night or whatever. I'm like I would almost sell this one I mean I won't because it's a prototype but like I'm at the point where it's like I'd be happy sending this out the door Which is a huge deal
00:41:53
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, so now it's just fine-tuning. Fine-tuning these lock inserts, because the way I'm doing it with your window fixture idea on the current is it leaves some thickness variation in the material. So I'm strategizing toolpaths like chamfer first or chamfer after or face this first or leave material here and then do that. And I've rearranged toolpaths for a while.
00:42:19
Speaker
What, you're getting thicknesses between one side of the window and the opposite? Yes, I think due to material. Deflection? Yeah, yeah. Ah, okay. And because I'm making four pieces in this one window in a square, and I've numbered them now, one, two, three, four, so I know which one might be deflecting more or not. Love it, love it.
00:42:39
Speaker
and it's it's tool pressure like it's funny with the kern it's such an amazing machine but it does not defy the laws of physics like tools flex tool deflection is a real thing and tool pressure and like how much stock to leave and all this stuff and if you're shooting for tents and surface finishes like
00:42:58
Speaker
It's got all the same rules as every other machine does. It's kind of neat to see. So even on a floor finish, do you leave one thou, or do you leave five thou, or how does that affect the thickness and the finish? So I'm playing with all that stuff, and it's good.
00:43:14
Speaker
When there's tool, helix angles and cut strategies that will massively affect how it pushes in or away from the, you know, just like on a turning, on a lathe, I can't believe I'm actually excited to share a lathe example, but obviously the classic, just let's switch over to a positive rate geometry, insert, hold, or chip breaker to help minimize how you're pushing that thing away. A shallower helix should help on the tooling, if I remember. Yeah, I haven't even thought about a different end mill choice.
00:43:44
Speaker
You know, you switch to a different brand and you almost naturally have a different helix angle, depending. Yeah, I'll consider that. And then I'm cutting 58 Rockwell stainless, so what's tool life looking like? Like, I've already chipped some edges. And like, how do I not do that? Because I want to make a whole lot of these, you know? And then you've got to track tool life. And yeah, I need a consistent process that I can just make parts. And I'm fine messing with it for now, but very shortly it's got to be a recipe.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally reasonable. Yeah, so that's been my obsession for the last little bit. It's like kind of the last big thing to get rasks out the door is this part. It's got to be perfect. How much variation are you getting? Between the four, it's very similar, like well under a thou of thickness, but they are two or two and a half thou thicker than they should be.
00:44:37
Speaker
Well that, if it's consistent, then you can just count it. The other thing, which darn it John, you gotta be willing to do this, is to run them in a second op. You can solve this parallel process downstream. You will figure out you are smart, you are capable. This is the pep talk.
00:44:55
Speaker
Quit holding this up. Second hop fixture, kiss them, deck them. Good tool life. You could actually probably come in with a side of the tool instead of the face of the tool, which is gonna get better surface finish, less tool pressure, better support. Nail your tolerances.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah, I've thought through a couple different ways. They're small and hard to hold. But there's ways. That sounds like an excuse. I'm sure you can hold it. But I'm also so close on my method, so it's like, make it work. Yeah, that's the flaw in your logic. You think you're close, but it's almost endless. It's liberating to say, I can spend six months figuring this out while I'm also shipping product.
00:45:40
Speaker
That's a good point. Yeah, like I've heard if, what is it? If you wait till it's perfect, you've launched too late or something? If you ship a perfect product, you've launched too late. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I'm probably there. Yeah, both ship rasks. Yeah. Good. I'll see you next week, bud. Go ahead. Take care. Bye.