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#414 Surface grinding on the Tormach PSG
0 Playsin 10 hours
TOPICS:
- Toolpath team visited SMW
- Mechanical pencil deep dive
- Measuring grinding wheels
- Wogaurd coolant sucker upper https://www.wogaard.com/coolant_saver.html
- Surface grinding on the Tormach PSG
- Topper machine auction video WATCH THIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcPDZB11A9w
- 3d printing big parts
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:01
John S
Good morning, welcome to the Business of Machining episode 414. My name is John Saunders.
00:00:07
johngrimsmo
And my name is John Grimsmo.
Saunders Machine Works and Product Offerings
00:00:08
John S
I run Saunders Machine Works. We make fixture plates work holding. Mr.
Grimsmo's Knife and Pen Craftsmanship
00:00:12
John S
Grimsmo makes sharp pointing things in the form of beautiful knives and pens that I got to show off yesterday when we were we were hosting a tool path board meeting.
00:00:19
johngrimsmo
Oh, yeah.
00:00:23
John S
um Well, we're still doing the intro right now, sorry. My name is John Saunders.
00:00:26
johngrimsmo
so Yeah, I'm John Grimsmo.
00:00:30
John S
We've loved that one.
00:00:30
johngrimsmo
Go on.
00:00:31
John S
No, this is really cool.
Office Improvements and Redesign
00:00:32
John S
We, ah it was a good combination of having some folks come in after we'd spent some time over the past three months doing just some TLC and cleanup of the office area.
00:00:43
John S
um I think I talked about this before, but also the last year we sort of hit that, oh my gosh, we've been in the shop for eight years. There's some aspects of junk and we really have done most of that.
00:00:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah. That's good.
00:00:55
John S
organized stuff, racking Tupperware bins, labels, new sink area, painted some walls, redid our swag wall, just some new artwork, moved some around, like just an aspect of freshness.
00:01:06
John S
And, um, really glad we did all of it.
00:01:06
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
Company Projects Review and Planning
00:01:09
John S
Um, this also was part of that beginning of the year. Crazy to think that we're coming up halfway, but, the year looking at all these projects we want to tackle and that worked great. A couple of them we chose not to do for a couple of the cost reasons, a couple because we didn't know like if we want to change our driveway or parking lot to some concrete. We're still trying to figure out dumpster and recycling bins. So I'm still really glad that we went through that process and then having folks in Um, a couple the, some of the toolpath folks are manufacturing industry related. Some of them are more investor related.
00:01:43
John S
And so we spent the morning doing a um, sort of
Shop Tour for Investors
00:01:47
John S
a shop demo. So we've walked them through some of the different manufacturing backgrounds that all of us bring to the table.
00:01:51
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:01:53
John S
And then we, uh, the shop tour, um, people love seeing the machines and explaining, you know, mills, Wilmans, lays five axis.
00:02:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:03
John S
And then the.
00:02:04
johngrimsmo
i assume some of these investor type people will not have seen a lot of shops in that regard.
00:02:09
John S
Correct. But there are also venture capital investors that are smart guys who have seen lots of industry.
00:02:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:15
John S
So they've known like one of them, new medical device stuff. So he was, you know, it doesn't take long for these guys to come up to speed on stuff, which is fun. And um we then had one of the investors program a Johnny five part in tool path, which and by programming, I mean like five clicks and, and then went out and he ran that part on the Tormach.
00:02:31
johngrimsmo
no that's so cool yeah
00:02:38
John S
Yep. Yes. And that's like kind of like, okay, this is what there's like there's some work to be done. And the, probably the biggest gotcha to that story is we had done some prep work on the tool library and tool ingestion, but toolpath has made some major progress on, which is really cool.
00:02:50
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:02:53
John S
Uh, to I think I'm allowed to say this, but basically like, hey, instead of dealing with like importing tool libraries, here's ah here's an aluminum part I made earlier that has all the tools i'm going to need. So take this file, grab those tools and and then program this part and they'll do that.
00:03:07
John S
and It'll do that now.
00:03:07
johngrimsmo
nice yeah
00:03:08
John S
And so the guy made a part, which is just like, there was actually some magic to me to see that because, you know, how many program parts
Ease of New Toolpath Features
00:03:16
John S
we program and like it's facing, it's like autopilot. It's facing, it's 2D contouring, it's adaptiveing and didn't do anything.
00:03:23
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah and you're watching somebody for the first time like that whole like i wish i was you right now and felt that for the first time like it's been 20 years since you programmed your first part you know like
00:03:29
John S
Yeah.
00:03:33
John S
Yeah.
Importance of Compliments and Validation
00:03:34
John S
So that was great. And then the afternoon, we had like a formal board meeting, but we were had a bunch of downtime took for breaks and whatnot. And I have the Kern, the ker the three d printing Kern, courtesy of Tuck, that has the now American flag, because Kern is an American machine tool company, with a Norseman and my saga in it.
00:03:54
John S
And I hate to say, sorry, I hate to tell you, so I started carrying a mechanical pencil
00:03:58
johngrimsmo
Oh, interesting.
00:03:58
John S
every day. So my saga is in the display case right now, John.
00:04:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's you're allowed to rotate a little bit as long as you don't forget about it.
00:04:02
John S
now
00:04:05
John S
Oh no, I won't forget about it. But it's fun to have it there because then that's what happens. People are like, oh can I see one? I've heard about one or I wanted to ah play with one.
00:04:11
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:04:12
John S
And so it it got passed around. And very nice compliments of you of your work.
00:04:18
johngrimsmo
Oh, that's cool.
00:04:19
John S
Yeah.
00:04:20
johngrimsmo
That's cool. So it's like, it's it's fairly often that we'll have like, but you know, one person come by for a shop tour, maybe two people, some
Challenges and Preparation for Visitor Hosting
00:04:28
johngrimsmo
like that. But it's not very often a group of people, like how many came to yours?
00:04:32
John S
aye It was, yeah.
00:04:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's that's a lot of people to to bring, right? That's like your day. And you get to use that kind of conference room and like, have have room for people.
00:04:42
John S
Yeah.
00:04:43
johngrimsmo
um That's super rare for us to ever have that many people come by.
00:04:47
John S
Oh, this has never happened. And to be clear, like this was this was planned months ago and we done a lot of prep work.
00:04:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:52
John S
I don't, this wasn't, this was, I was happy to host, but like it was a ah thing.
00:04:55
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. It kind of reminds me of like, you know, when politicians go around and like see manufacturing, see industry and shake hands with the people it's where those people in a way like, and that's about as political as I ever want to get on this podcast.
00:05:02
John S
ah Oh, yeah.
00:05:06
John S
Yeah, right. Yeah, was funny.
00:05:13
John S
Yeah, I was just saying exactly. But it felt good.
00:05:16
johngrimsmo
Cool.
Value of Genuine Compliments
00:05:17
John S
And people, I'll be, I heard a phrase, um i don't know, this is probably one the things maybe I shouldn't share, but I heard a phrase that resonated with me.
00:05:17
johngrimsmo
That's awesome.
00:05:25
John S
i don't remember who said it now already, but... And it's probably, I should probably need to think of a better phrase analogy because they're easy to come up with one, but I can't, to use the one that somebody told me. Nobody tells supermodels that they're attractive because everybody just assumes that that sort of a person wouldn't know that.
00:05:44
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Okay.
00:05:45
John S
And the corollary there is even if somebody is whatever you want to call it, proud of their shop, successful, whatever, whatever, it still can go a long way to recognize or just, ah ah it doesn't need to be, you know, over the top flattery or narcissism, like to just give a nice compliment.
00:06:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:04
John S
And like, I'll be honest yesterday, a couple of people were like, Hey, you have a really nice shop. Like, this is a really great. And like, I really appreciated that. It really meant a lot.
00:06:11
johngrimsmo
a genuine, a genuine observation and reflection.
00:06:15
John S
Yeah.
00:06:15
johngrimsmo
And as, as somebody giving the compliment, sometimes it's very good to add very specific details, not like nice shop, but like, wow, I really like how you have the machines laid out.
00:06:21
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:24
johngrimsmo
I really like how the floors are clean. You know, that goes so far in making the recipient feel genuine, genuine, like warmth from that compliment.
00:06:28
John S
Right.
00:06:33
John S
Yeah.
00:06:34
johngrimsmo
That's awesome.
00:06:35
John S
Yeah. Right. But also I think there's ah a role as a, both a shop owner, but as a parent, when you talk about like your kids, like you also have to find that, that self-confidence from within to recognize, like, I don't need somebody to tell me, I know we have a good shop.
00:06:49
John S
Right.
00:06:50
johngrimsmo
true yeah yes so weird uh catch 22 you're like i don't need it but every now and then it's like it's validation you know it's like i know this to my core but when somebody else knows it too yeah i'm winning cool
00:06:50
John S
Um, but it was nice to hear
00:06:57
John S
It's still nice. Sure.
00:07:03
John S
Right. Right. And like, that was the compliment about you, John. It's like, you know, you make a great product because that's, you're half crazy about what you put into that product.
00:07:12
johngrimsmo
yep
00:07:12
John S
But I hope, and I say it with the intent of passing along the compliment, but also sincerely, like, because it's not my compliment. I'm just relaying. like somebody else without you knowing you would ever hear this was like two of people were like, it's a really nice product, a really nice knife.
00:07:27
John S
Right. That's got to feel good.
00:07:28
johngrimsmo
yeah it feels amazing yeah no i do appreciate and when it happens at knife shows um it's i i purposely try to feel very genuine about it
00:07:28
John S
Maybe you don't. Good. Okay.
Product Utility and Desired Usage
00:07:38
johngrimsmo
especially when the person's being super genuine i don't brush it off i don't you know i just it's just my thing it's just what i do like thank you very much you know it's like that mean that means a lot to me um because it does and you know i take that home and i sit on it and i think about it and it comes back when i need it kind of thing and it's like
00:07:38
John S
Right.
00:07:47
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:54
johngrimsmo
you know, when you're in the depths of despair, you're like, what are we even doing here? My work, my work is garbage. I can't get anything right. I keep breaking tools. Like, hold hold on, hold on. This product, this product solves a problem for people. Like in my case, it just brings joy to their lives. It lets them cut things, write things. um It's a useful thing. In your case, it solves a physical like work holding problem that gets used and abused and enjoyed every single day. And like, like every single day, you want your products to be used every day. I want my products to be used every day.
00:08:26
johngrimsmo
I told Angela the other day, I was like, I don't want to make stuff that just sits in a drawer that just
Mechanical Pencil Development Ideas
00:08:32
johngrimsmo
collects dust.
00:08:32
John S
Yeah, right, right.
00:08:33
johngrimsmo
You know, I want it to be meaningful enough, valuable enough, useful enough that like that's the one you pick. And i't you can't pick it all the time. Sometimes you got to go mechanical pencil. But you know i mean?
00:08:45
johngrimsmo
You've used the crap out of your Grimsmoke products and I appreciate that.
00:08:45
John S
Yeah. Well, really what I'm trying to say is i need you to make a mechanical pencil.
00:08:53
johngrimsmo
There is actually, Schmidt makes a mechanical pencil insert that almost fits in our in our pen.
00:08:57
John S
Okay.
00:08:59
johngrimsmo
But I think and think we need a longer tube and to change one of the features. We just never finished that project.
00:09:04
John S
Interesting.
00:09:06
johngrimsmo
We bought one because they're not expensive, but it changes quite a few things on the pen. But that'd be sick.
00:09:11
John S
Yes.
00:09:11
johngrimsmo
Even Leif was saying that because in in class, he's got a saga.
00:09:12
John S
and
00:09:14
johngrimsmo
He's got a brass, copper saga.
00:09:16
John S
Of course he does.
00:09:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah, all custom parts that like nobody else has. And it's like the heaviest saga we've ever made. But he's like, in math class, they want us to use pencils because they don't like it when I scribble out the wrong answer. I'm like, well, tough.
00:09:29
johngrimsmo
But anyway, so he's like, so I can't use my pen. You got to make a mechanical pencil.
00:09:34
John S
Well, I found myself wanting a pencil more. I tried carrying both.
00:09:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah, interesting.
00:09:38
John S
Um, and I, I'm pretty like, I, I now got on nine years of EDC, a knife flashlight and ah and a writing utensil. And I can't, I've tried adding a Leatherman and it was nice, but not worth it.
00:09:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:09:51
John S
And I'm just protective of, I don't want more than those three things.
00:09:51
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:09:54
johngrimsmo
hundred percent. Yep.
00:09:55
John S
I wanted a pencil. And I was like, every time I need a pen, a pencil would work, but the, the flipping around, like I've been sketching and drawing more.
00:10:03
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:10:03
John S
Um, and so I went on a probably three week mechanical pencil binge nerd out, which also to your point, you can buy like lots of mechanical pencils for 13 to $20, like bespoke, like whatever.
00:10:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:19
John S
And I ended up, and this is so embarrassing. I found this through Reddit. I had bought a Rote Ring 600, um, and not really, um
00:10:26
johngrimsmo
That's like a nice nice brand, all right?
00:10:26
John S
and not
00:10:27
johngrimsmo
Like...
00:10:28
John S
Yes, correct. ah But I want to say it's 30, it's German. It's just like 35 bucks.
00:10:32
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:10:33
John S
And then it has a ah brass steel, whatever tip, like a pretty sharp tip that the pencil lead would go through, but that will, you could stab somebody easily with that or stab through your cloth clothing. I didn't like that. So I actually embarrassingly ground it down.
00:10:49
John S
And then i don't even think I had to chase the hole. The pencil had was okay going through the hole after I belt-tanned it down.
00:10:54
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:55
John S
And then I realized they make a Roten Ring 800, which if I hold this up, like this is a blunt tip. And when you rotate this, it comes out.
00:11:00
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Oh, that's cool.
00:11:03
John S
Yeah. So if anybody is wanting curious and you can't see this on video, obviously Roten Ring 800, and you'll see it's the back of it twists, which exposes not the pencil lead. It exposes the whole pencil lead delivery mechanism.
00:11:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:15
John S
And I'm going to lie. I freaking love it.
00:11:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:18
John S
Yeah.
00:11:19
johngrimsmo
That's cool. That's beautiful. and
00:11:22
John S
Yeah.
00:11:22
johngrimsmo
cheap yeah angela has some of their products and they're like nice
00:11:26
John S
yeah But I think you could for sure add your flair to it, John.
00:11:30
johngrimsmo
well the thing with our pen is it clicks and it stays on with mechanical pencil you want to click click click like you don't want it to stay on so we'd have to remove the three ball bearings from the mechanism which kind of changes the way the whole saga works
00:11:42
John S
Got it.
00:11:44
John S
Or, I mean, or do, so you need, you have two mechanisms. The click pen could do what the rotary does, which delivers the whole assembly out. What's interesting is because it retracts in, I have like probably two millimeters of pencil that exposed that will stay exposed unbroken even in my pocket because the whole thing retracts in.
00:12:01
johngrimsmo
Really? Yeah.
00:12:02
John S
So I actually pushed the rear button very little um compared to your bingo.
00:12:06
johngrimsmo
Hmm. Like the the let lead extension button.
00:12:09
John S
Yeah.
00:12:09
johngrimsmo
Interesting. That's cool. Click to activate, like to push out the cartridge and then a secondary click or some play at the top that lets you advance the lead.
00:12:23
John S
Yeah.
00:12:24
johngrimsmo
That could work. It would take quite a redesign, but as there's... I've been kind of looking for a way to spice up the saga. You know, like what's the next, what's the next version of, a I have nothing.
00:12:35
johngrimsmo
It's like, it's so good. And we've just been making it forever.
00:12:40
John S
Well, that's what I also did was i already looked like, okay, can I, don't laugh, like, can I, you glue ah a small mechanical pencil to the side of a saga or stuff went inside of it or like, no, like drill a, because they make, one of the first mechanical pencils I bought was freaking tiny.
00:12:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:54
John S
It's like barely bigger than a toothpick. um And i was like, wait, can I get this? It was like too small. it was not what I was looking for in the end. I was like, can i put this in a saga? Anyways, I'll stop rambling.
00:13:09
johngrimsmo
Love it, though. I love a good ramble.
00:13:16
John S
What have been up to?
00:13:18
johngrimsmo
um Various things. I've got a couple of things on my list.
Knife Grinding and Stability Issues
00:13:23
johngrimsmo
On our Speedio, we've talked about this many times, how we grind our Rask and Fjell bevels.
00:13:31
John S
Yeah.
00:13:31
johngrimsmo
The blade bevels, used to do it on the current, been doing it on the Speedio for a while. It generally works great, except we're getting varying results. So imagine the main bevels on a knife. If one side is not ground enough, there's going mismatch side to side.
00:13:45
John S
yeah
00:13:46
johngrimsmo
The edge is gonna be slightly off center and the the flats and the bevels are not going to meet up in the same way. And you can actually tell by looking at it various things that it's off. So we 3D printed a fixture. We try to measure each bevel left and right, and we tune it to be good.
00:14:00
johngrimsmo
um The Speedio is still walking around a bit more than I want. And ah couple weeks ago, I talked about implementing the thermal compensation where it probes the fixed laser body.
00:14:11
johngrimsmo
The spindle probe comes in and it probes the laser body, and it tracks and offsets for any growth um that I care about X, Y, or Z.
00:14:12
John S
Okay. Yep.
00:14:19
johngrimsmo
Right now, I just care about Y. right And, you know, cold to hot, it could move by a thou.
00:14:25
John S
Okay.
00:14:25
johngrimsmo
Even going away for lunch, it could move, you know, by many, many tenths noticeable. um So that's in place and that's fixed that. And it's still having problems.
00:14:38
johngrimsmo
And I think what's happening is because we have a little grinding wheel on there and the laser is measuring the grinding wheel and updating the offset like every blade, um maybe even twice per blade.
00:14:51
johngrimsmo
I think there's enough variation in rebu re-measuring the same wheel that it's walking too much, I think.
00:15:02
johngrimsmo
Like changing changing the program diameter more than the actual physical diameter of the wheel.
00:15:02
John S
Can you afford to have
00:15:06
John S
Yeah, yeah, sure.
00:15:08
johngrimsmo
um And I capped it basically telling it the wheel will never be bigger. So if it ever probes bigger, ignore that.
00:15:14
John S
Yeah.
00:15:16
johngrimsmo
And the wheel should never wear more than four tenths. um So if that's the case, ignore that. um But I think it can get locked out of the zones of reality and just kind of jump around a little bit. And I've been deprinting all the results.
00:15:29
johngrimsmo
I haven't taken enough time to like put them all in a spreadsheet and, you know, graph everything. um But as of two days ago, we... eliminate, like we pulled out that auto measuring routine because looking at the data, I'm like, the wheel is, you know, wearing by like two tenths a day, like nothing, nothing, you know, so slowly that we could easily comp it every couple days manually ah to, to get it to what we want.
00:15:40
John S
who
00:15:46
John S
Yeah.
00:15:55
johngrimsmo
We could even, Angelo and I spent some time the other day and we, um, we took a nice quantum mic and we're sitting there measuring this CBN grinding wheel, which we know is going to scratch the anvils ah of the mic.
00:16:06
John S
Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:08
johngrimsmo
So we did it like two times just to like prove, validate to ourselves. um We're like, okay, clearly this is not a sustainable way to do it, but maybe there's a way, maybe use paper shims, maybe little metal shims, maybe there's mics with replaceable anvils or, you know, there's, there's gotta to be some way to like do this repeatedly.
00:16:19
John S
Yeah.
00:16:28
johngrimsmo
in a way that kind of takes the laser out of the equation. I don't know. um Okay, I didn't see that one yet.
00:16:32
John S
Renzetti just posted something on Instagram and yeah I think he was just using, think he was using one thou stainless shim stock.
00:16:39
John S
I think so, man.
00:16:40
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:16:42
John S
But even if, were yeah that nothing wrong, like plenty repeat, like should be plenty accurate, and repeatable enough, blah, blah, blah.
00:16:47
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. Yep, and as long as the person doing it is doing it the same way every time they do it, then there's that consistency.
00:16:53
John S
Yeah.
00:16:56
johngrimsmo
um
00:16:57
John S
Actually 3D print a little host that holds the Shimsock like thread wires at the wheel diameter.
00:17:01
johngrimsmo
There you go.
00:17:02
John S
Then you have one finger can hold it up. It'll flank the wheel tangentially and then you can just collapse it with the mic.
00:17:07
johngrimsmo
I quite like that.
00:17:09
John S
Or even better, the 3D print thing could actually attach onto the mic so that it actually all is one.
00:17:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:15
John S
Yeah, exactly. Okay. Very good.
00:17:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah, there's something there. I briefly thought about the whole thread wire holder thing, but I didn't think even as far as you just did. Yeah, there's something there for sure. So But the the the result of doing this for two days with no auto comping is that we're getting more stable results, like more stable blades, which is fantastic.
00:17:35
John S
Okay.
00:17:38
johngrimsmo
So you know that's a result. I still need to analyze their data. I'll let them keep running a bit more. But after a few more days, I'm basically waiting for the guys to tell me, like, no, this is way better.
00:17:48
johngrimsmo
This is like it's finally doing the thing, which is great. Because it's it's variable enough that we don't want to palletize it. We just do it all on one pallet. We load every blade.
00:17:59
johngrimsmo
We run a 40-minute cycle and put the next blade in and do it again, um which limits us for sure.
00:18:05
John S
Sure, sure.
00:18:06
johngrimsmo
it's We have the Auro hooked up. like We could easily run 10 pallets overnight and just have way better production. But we don't trust the results yet. We're still dicking around with it.
00:18:17
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:18:18
johngrimsmo
But I think we're closer to that now, which is great.
00:18:22
John S
Everything, I'm glad you brought that workflow up because most of the things I've read have sort of talked about probing is great. It's a great tool, but it kind of, kind of like simultaneous five access, it gets abused and overused.
00:18:33
John S
And like, let's go back, just rewind to the fundamentals to figure out, especially if we don't end up in some feedback loop or iterative too much and moving too much.
00:18:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:18:39
johngrimsmo
and
00:18:41
John S
Um, Because ah that machine doesn't surprise me that it moves some, but you would think if you can keep it to keep the temp stable and the coolant and the spindle and all that, I bet you she holds pretty good.
00:18:46
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:18:52
johngrimsmo
She does extremely well. um
00:18:54
John S
Yeah, that's the battle to fight.
00:18:55
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Like temperature, temperature swings absolutely affected cold to hot, walk away for lunch, come back an hour later. Um, you know, you let the machine cool down. It it does move many tents.
00:19:06
johngrimsmo
However, when it's stable, it's actually shockingly accurate.
00:19:12
John S
Can you have it go into a dummy program when every time it's done?
00:19:15
johngrimsmo
You could for sure. Yep. And just keep, i mean, but I grind at 16,000 RPM. I peg it.
Thermal Stability in Grinding Speeds
00:19:21
johngrimsmo
I don't want a dummy program at 16 K to keep it, you know, ribbon.
00:19:26
John S
Anecdotal, but I would bet you will maintain most of your thermal stability even if you put it at 10 or 12.
00:19:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah, maybe.
00:19:34
John S
Run the coolant, have the spindle on. There's going to have to be 16. Yeah.
00:19:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah, maybe. But yeah, so result.
00:19:44
John S
Good.
00:19:44
johngrimsmo
That's good. That is good.
00:19:47
John S
Speaking of coolant, have you heard of a Woogard coolant saver?
00:19:51
johngrimsmo
I have not.
00:19:52
John S
Well, maybe Woogard, W-O-G-A-A-R-D, but appears to be British company. It's pretty cool. It is a, it's a hockey puck hooked up to a, ah that has a piece of flex line coming out of it.
00:19:59
johngrimsmo
Maybe.
Coolant Recycling and Management
00:20:08
John S
And you would drop this hockey puck in the bottom of your chip hopper or whatever you're using that collects your chips. And then the other end of that, ah so yeah yep, yeah, the other end of that flexible line hooks into your coolant on, just somewhere in your coolant on,
00:20:20
johngrimsmo
Is it Venturi? I'm Googling it now.
00:20:28
John S
plumbing lines so that when you turn through so or to flood coolant on, it creates a venturi and that venturi automatically pulls up whatever coolant is, is puddling up or ponding at the bottom of your chip hopper.
00:20:44
John S
That way.
00:20:44
johngrimsmo
Yes, I had actually heard about this a while So in your in your chip um chip bucket, whatever, instead of pooling coolant, if it sucks it all up, it's just gently sucking a little bit of air.
00:20:50
John S
her
00:20:57
John S
yeah which one for anything?
00:20:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah, no.
00:20:59
John S
Yeah.
00:21:00
johngrimsmo
Yeah, actually, there's no downside, really.
00:21:02
John S
ah So apparently our Willamon has a version of this from Willamon, which was pretty cool.
00:21:05
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:21:08
John S
And we, i probably won't use this on most of the machines. We do, it we've gotten a pretty good double barreled drum system where the top holds the chips in the, we have drill a couple holes in the coolant drains in the blower one, but we use, oh it's great.
00:21:15
johngrimsmo
oh Yeah. We've still never done that. Yeah.
00:21:23
John S
Um, the horizontal, it does have the Dakota metal solutions chip hopper, like a, uh, don't know half yard or cute third yard chip hopper.
00:21:24
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:21:32
John S
And Garrett said that there's a lot of coolant in the bottom of that thing. And so this sort of a thing to pull it out would be great. Um, I should probably do I'll be honest.
00:21:40
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:21:41
John S
I'll probably drag my feet on it for, for no justifiable reason, but I think it's five or 600 bucks.
00:21:44
johngrimsmo
Do you have a price on it?
00:21:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:21:47
John S
I kind of would like to find a us one, which, or I don't know.
00:21:51
johngrimsmo
You can 3D print that.
00:21:54
John S
Oh, interesting.
00:21:55
johngrimsmo
So the McMaster sells Venturies. um They're a couple hundred dollars, but I bought one and it would do exactly this.
00:21:59
John S
Interesting.
00:22:03
johngrimsmo
It's like legit.
00:22:05
John S
Well, I'm going to argue with you. If it's $200 for McMaster, I'll buy the $500 turnkey solution from the OEM. Now, if it's $30 for a Venturi, I might DIY it.
00:22:11
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:22:13
johngrimsmo
There are versions of it. I mean, like Pearson's makes, I don't know if it would be good for this, but like it needs to flow.
00:22:17
John S
Oh, Interesting.
00:22:20
johngrimsmo
The flow through needs to be your coolant flow, like a lot, um you know, 50 PSI at whatever flow rate.
00:22:24
John S
Yeah.
00:22:27
johngrimsmo
um and But the the suction side, the little cup at the bottom that sucks coolant, that can be 3D printed.
00:22:34
John S
That can be three d printed. Absolutely.
00:22:35
johngrimsmo
Easy, easy.
00:22:36
John S
For sure. Yeah.
00:22:37
johngrimsmo
But yeah, like, don't 3D print Venturi because it's hooked up to your coolant line.
00:22:37
John S
That's a good point.
00:22:40
johngrimsmo
Like, it's got to be real.
00:22:43
John S
Correct.
00:22:44
johngrimsmo
um
00:22:44
John S
Yeah.
00:22:46
johngrimsmo
But cool.
00:22:47
John S
Okay. I'll let you, I'll keep you posted.
00:22:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Well, as the, um I mean, we're making more chips now than we've ever made, but I still think we probably make 5% of what you guys make or most shops make.
00:22:53
John S
Yeah.
00:22:56
John S
Yeah.
00:22:57
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:22:57
John S
Yeah.
00:23:00
johngrimsmo
So this is not a huge problem for us, but I could see a lot of shops it being an actual huge problem.
00:23:05
John S
Yeah. And it's just great. It dries out. You you're keeping more coolant. You're not putting in your cycle stuff that's getting wet and, uh, you're reducing the weight if you're, mean, the chip hopper is forklifted, but nevertheless, it's a good thing all around.
00:23:12
johngrimsmo
you know
00:23:19
John S
Um,
00:23:26
johngrimsmo
The other thing...
00:23:26
John S
um um
00:23:29
johngrimsmo
you want You want to go? I'm going to deep dive.
00:23:31
John S
Deep dive.
00:23:32
johngrimsmo
Okay.
Surface Grinder Revival and Challenges
00:23:33
johngrimsmo
Surface grinding.
00:23:35
John S
Okay.
00:23:35
johngrimsmo
um As you know, we have our big Okamoto, exact same one you have. We also have our Tormac PSG, which has been gently collecting dust for the past five years. Never even been turned on. And did we actually talk about this on the podcast last week?
00:23:48
John S
No.
00:23:48
johngrimsmo
Or did I? Okay.
00:23:50
John S
You might have alluded to...
00:23:51
johngrimsmo
and I haven't mentioned it.
00:23:51
John S
No, you didn't.
00:23:52
johngrimsmo
Anyway, I've been wanting to like, well, let me just, you know, dust something off. um Because I've got a couple things that I wish I could just jump on a manual grinder and just grind.
00:24:02
John S
Yep.
00:24:02
johngrimsmo
um We've had this PSG for 10 plus years. um And I actually looked back on our emails before we were actually friends. We emailed each other about, about this Tormac surface grinder.
00:24:13
John S
Really?
00:24:16
johngrimsmo
Cause I knew you had one. I watched your videos and i was like, Hey, I've got the PSG as well.
00:24:18
John S
Hilarious.
00:24:20
johngrimsmo
And before we met anyway, um, And the some pictures I sent back and forth. I remember actually sending you blades that I was getting a bad finish on um because I was getting like either wheel hop or burn marks at various intervals and I couldn't figure it out.
00:24:28
John S
No.
00:24:36
johngrimsmo
And I was you know super green to surface grinding. And you had one and you're like, I don't have any burn marks. So I sent you my parts um so that you could grind them. i don't remember what happened. But reading these old emails is really funny between us.
00:24:47
John S
Holy cow.
00:24:49
johngrimsmo
And I watched our old YouTube video on how we balanced the surface grinder wheel. And it was literally just like two vertical pieces of aluminum with four skateboard bearings bolted to it.
00:25:01
johngrimsmo
And you put the shaft in and you balance it.
00:25:01
John S
Yep.
00:25:02
johngrimsmo
And like, that's okay. um But I've kind of had it stuck in my head. Okay, I had ah head burn marks. That's probably wheel out of balance. That's probably wheel hop or something like that. Like, what if I balance this wheel like really well?
00:25:15
johngrimsmo
Would it have the same result? um So I posted on Instagram the other day, my air bearing wheel balancer. Did you see that one?
00:25:22
John S
It looks sick.
00:25:23
johngrimsmo
I am super happy with that. and That's actually what i I told you earlier. I was explaining to Leif this morning and he got so excited.
00:25:29
John S
Oh, yeah.
00:25:30
johngrimsmo
He's like, you need to bring that home because I need to see that and play with that. So for those who didn't see it's on my Instagram, it's an air bearing wheel balancing stand. So the shaft that goes through the center of the balancing, the the wheel
00:25:43
John S
Our room.
00:25:43
johngrimsmo
The Arbor to balance the wheel has, it's not super precision, the one we got from Tormac, but I was able to stone the rods so that they're at least all the high spots are down using a kinetic precision stones um so that they're pretty good surface finish.
00:25:57
johngrimsmo
And then I machined these brass air bearings and 3D printed a base for the air bearing pads and put it on three points, like two ball bearings pressed into the bottom of the thing. And then one Thorlab's micro adjuster screw with like, uh, uh, uh.
00:26:09
John S
Oh, get you. Okay.
00:26:11
johngrimsmo
100 TPI thread adjust because I know I'm only constraining it ah in like one axis and it'll walk side to side on these two cups and it does but if it's level it pretty much stays balanced it might like drift to one side so you get it level
00:26:12
John S
yep
00:26:20
John S
Yep.
00:26:28
johngrimsmo
And a holy cow, does it ever balance it? Like it shows everything. I could balance the arbor by itself because there's no friction in an air bearing.
00:26:36
John S
Yeah.
00:26:36
johngrimsmo
And the the arbor was out of balance. And then you put the nut on it. And so i'm sitting there with a file, like filing the the the heavy spot of the arbor.
00:26:42
John S
Oh, Great.
00:26:44
johngrimsmo
And then I put the nut on it and I do it again. i'm like, okay, now the arbor is balanced. And then I put the wheel on and obviously it's way out of balance. um And then I adjusted the weights until it like won't rock at all from any position. i'm like, this is sick.
00:26:57
johngrimsmo
I put it back on the surface grinder. I stayed super late one night. um The kids texted me and they're like, okay, we're we're doing a thing. We don't need you to come home tonight. I'm like, okay, um I got the night off.
00:27:08
John S
great
00:27:08
johngrimsmo
I'm i'm having fun tonight. So I had so much fun playing on this PSG. It was like like, I know how to do it, but it's been a long time since I've actually surface ground anything.
00:27:19
johngrimsmo
And I had some projects, this little hex thing that I wanted to grind the top, the bottom and all six sides. And then
00:27:24
John S
Oh, wow.
00:27:25
johngrimsmo
grind chamfer all six plus sides. So I put it in a 45 degree fixture and I can't twist clamped it down. And I, ah ground the chamfers of all six.
00:27:33
John S
Mmm.
00:27:35
johngrimsmo
success I know it's just having such a blast.
00:27:37
John S
Holy cow.
00:27:38
johngrimsmo
Um, now did the balance, the ultra balance fix all the issues? Um, it, it left a really nice grind, but the second you stone it, you see increments at every roughly six millimeters.
00:27:52
johngrimsmo
Um, that is is definitely something and i'm like well the wheel is absolutely balanced i i'm a hundred percent that the wheel is perfectly balanced the spindle might not be balanced the spindle might have vibration in it um and what i'm really wondering is this table travels on a rack and pinion uh side to side motion
00:28:08
John S
so Yeah.
00:28:16
johngrimsmo
Is that rack and pinion meshing? i don't know too much about gears and how they mesh, but you know is it meshing good or is it lobing and causing the table to jump ever so slightly on every traverse?
00:28:28
johngrimsmo
Because it's every every flat part is leaving these hops once you stone it. And I'm like, well, okay, here's that line. Do I cross the line of like, does this matter?
00:28:40
johngrimsmo
Or, yes, of course it matters. I don't know. I don't know what to do now. But I could i could buy and install a new rack and pinion. could use Prussian Blue to do the gears and see how they mesh.
00:28:53
johngrimsmo
i could Or I could just ignore it and move on. And it's fine. It's good enough. I have the Okamoto. If we ever need something ultra precise, why am I even... So anyway, I don't have any answers. But I had so much fun.
00:29:04
johngrimsmo
And now that the grinder works and I know, like, dude, we can just jump on it and grind anything quick and dirty. We don't have to worry about you know, the big Okamoto, like me, Jeff, Angelo could 100% just jump on that machine and do anything, um which is is great.
00:29:18
johngrimsmo
I feel like I have more power now as a machinist, now that I have, you know, unlimited access to a ah ah grinder that grinds well, not perfectly, but very, very well.
00:29:22
John S
yes
00:29:27
John S
Yes.
00:29:29
johngrimsmo
And um that makes me so happy.
00:29:31
John S
it's Great. In the the wheel, the minor, these are, they bother Grimmsmo, but like otherwise grind perfectly acceptably.
00:29:38
johngrimsmo
ah um You wouldn't notice it if you didn't have flat stones.
00:29:41
John S
Oh yeah. Well, last time it was a show, you know, it's like, oh yeah.
00:29:42
johngrimsmo
Literally.
00:29:44
johngrimsmo
ah They will reveal all secrets. but So i could I could do another block and I could put it under like a tenth indicator or even a millionth indicator on a surface plate and like sweep it across, see if I could measure these undulations. I'm kind of curious.
00:29:59
John S
Yeah.
00:30:00
johngrimsmo
It's not much, but CMM it for that one.
00:30:02
John S
but I would bet you could even, i mean, it doesn't take a lot to get Grindr to show very minor, the people out there that know Grindr are gonna be yelling around.
00:30:13
John S
Like there's a lot that can go on um in terms of like, and the RZ column on our PSG was not great.
00:30:15
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah for sure yep
00:30:19
John S
And there was a little bit of stickiness to that. So you could even be having like a tool pressure variation. you to your point, could be. The rack opinion is what drives the the X motion, but it's not the, unless it's like lifting it up a little bit, which it could, alert lurching.
00:30:34
johngrimsmo
that's kind of what i'm wondering you know ever so slight
00:30:36
John S
it runs on turquited double Vs, I believe.
00:30:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah, they're not pretty. I pulled the whole table off.
00:30:41
John S
Stone nose for sure.
00:30:42
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I could, well, e stoning them. Okay, that's a good idea. Just plain stone them.
00:30:46
John S
That's easy. Yeah.
00:30:47
johngrimsmo
um
00:30:47
John S
Yeah.
00:30:48
johngrimsmo
I thought about, is this the excuse I need to like start scraping something? Because I've never actually done scraping.
00:30:52
John S
no no no no
00:30:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I know.
00:30:55
John S
no
00:30:56
johngrimsmo
But that is another source of variation. So you have the rack and pinion, you have the the ways, um and then you have the general rigidity of the whole machine um and possible vibration in the spindle itself.
00:31:08
John S
sure yeah
00:31:09
johngrimsmo
And like every single one of those is a deep dive or like rabbit hole of, does this really matter? um So basically I'm at, I'm at 95% of like this machine works great.
00:31:20
johngrimsmo
It's that last 5% that does it matter?
00:31:23
John S
No, John, this is, mean there's a Gib to as as well on the Z, which is not your friend when it comes to, it's not fun.
00:31:24
johngrimsmo
and know.
00:31:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yep. And even, even though there's a lot of slop in the Z um it, it did okay.
00:31:39
John S
Yeah.
00:31:40
johngrimsmo
I feel like I could move to tenths, um and some tenths anyway, and and do a thing. So yeah, it's great.
00:31:47
John S
No, it's great. e It's ironic that it's a Torok because it's how I feel about having the 1500
Choosing Shop Equipment
00:31:53
John S
again now.
00:31:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah, right, right?
00:31:53
John S
The 1500 is actually legit good with the epoxy grant and the lady rails.
00:31:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, but much better than the than the PSG is, however.
00:31:59
John S
Yes. But just having that machine that's always there, like actually um was going to, I was going to show this off.
00:32:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah, right?
00:32:05
John S
We have four, uh, timing belt pulleys that we have to make for Johnny five. And this is the material you, I bought the extrusion.
00:32:13
johngrimsmo
okay whoa
00:32:16
John S
That's how you they want you to do this. Cause there are two, they're pairs, but two of them are different thicknesses and two of them have some features in them. So I bought the extrusion piece.
00:32:24
johngrimsmo
it's like a 20 tooth gear that's extruded into a one foot long two inch diameter part or whatever nice
00:32:30
John S
Bingo. Yeah. yeah So i already saw one off for the podcast and then I 3d printed a clam shell. There's a little clamp through it and that held great in the bandsaw. I'm going to take the same thing over to the 1500 and it's going to deck it to height, put cut a clocking feature into it and then put the hole through it for the shaft that it goes on. Done. Like awesome.
00:32:49
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:32:49
John S
Love that.
00:32:51
johngrimsmo
but You're not going to do that on your ah Okuma. Like, you could.
00:32:54
John S
not No, no.
00:32:55
johngrimsmo
Absolutely. You have the skill and talent and ability, and it's it's available sometimes, right?
00:33:00
John S
right yeah it's good
00:33:00
johngrimsmo
But, yeah. it's It's this weird dichotomy of you have some of the best equipment in the world in your shop, as do I.
00:33:11
johngrimsmo
um I don't... I don't always feel okay using the current to do dumb little stuff.
00:33:18
John S
no totally
00:33:19
johngrimsmo
Like it's busy. And sometimes I do, of course, but um I look around and I go, okay, which machine is available, which has the tools in it, which is the least effort for me to do it. Sometimes that is the current.
00:33:30
johngrimsmo
was like, Oh, I've got every tool I ever need pretty much already installed the machine. I can schedule this part in like easy peasy.
00:33:35
John S
I know, it's really nice.
00:33:36
johngrimsmo
um But yeah, Like the air bearing pads for this balancer, like and this is a non-critical thing. I'm not selling it. I'm not, it doesn't add a lot of value to my life.
00:33:47
johngrimsmo
It actually it did add a lot of you know, emotional value to my life.
00:33:50
John S
Joy, yeah, yeah.
00:33:51
johngrimsmo
Joy. But ah my original plan was to make them on the Willamette because I can make them out of one inch brass bar, put a collar in the Willamette.
00:33:57
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:33:58
johngrimsmo
I can machine all the thing. I can part it off like, great. And i was like, I think it'd be easier in the Speedio actually. And so I did.
00:34:07
John S
Didn't it need fourth access features or no, were they threw holes.
00:34:09
johngrimsmo
No, I can three X's the whole thing.
00:34:10
John S
Ah, okay, great. Yeah, that's awesome.
00:34:11
johngrimsmo
yeah Yep. Yep. So it it was, I, I bandsawed bandsaw slug of one inch bar that was like inch and a half long or 1.55. And then, uh, two ops like in, in vice with, um, soft jaws with a one inch circle milled into them.
00:34:27
johngrimsmo
And, uh, yeah, op one, flip it over op two done.
00:34:30
John S
You, you have Vansaw now?
00:34:32
johngrimsmo
We have a ah one of those little hand port-a-bans with the off-road or the swag kit.
00:34:34
John S
Did it off-road? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet.
00:34:39
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, we still use it all the time, but that's the, yeah.
00:34:43
John S
No, it's, I mean, we have the cordless DeWall, or Milwaukee, but it's great because the blade, a three pack of blades is like 18 bucks. Whereas the big bandsaw on the back, a one blade is a hundred and some bucks.
00:34:51
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:34:54
John S
And when we bandsaw stuff, we're not like, just, we might break teeth just because we're doing different materials and blah, blah, blah.
00:34:54
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:35:01
John S
So yeah, totally agree.
00:35:01
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:35:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah, doing this, bandsawing this one-inch brass by hand on the portaband. Obviously, the bandsaw is fixed, and I have the table.
00:35:10
John S
Right.
00:35:11
johngrimsmo
I'm just sliding the part across. I did it very methodically, very slowly. I just let the teeth do the work. you know It took a minute or two to get through it, whatever. But the cut was actually really, really beautiful. I was pretty impressed with that.
00:35:22
John S
Okay, you want a ah non-endorsed go deep project, build a gravity infeed table for your for your swag off-road.
00:35:33
johngrimsmo
I was wondering if that existed. Like, if it exists, I would probably buy it, not build it. You know what I mean? Like...
00:35:39
John S
Oh, but let's let's get you intoxicated here. It's not that hard to do, John. a couple of little linear rails that are on the platform and then you have a string and a literally you have a bag with weights and and then you put a pulley, literally gravity fed feed and infeed.
00:35:49
johngrimsmo
do you... Okay, so a counterweight, basically. a Interesting. Would you...
Gravity Infeed Table Concept
00:36:00
johngrimsmo
Theoretically, do you need different weight per size part?
00:36:04
John S
This is where you'd have, it would be, the problem is if it would be jumpy, like it would jump backward.
00:36:04
johngrimsmo
You'd figure it out.
00:36:09
John S
i don't know how, the one the ones I always see are the Marvels and they're big.
00:36:10
johngrimsmo
That's a good point.
00:36:14
John S
um
00:36:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:36:15
John S
In my like retired dream shop, I had this idea of wanting one, but like, it's just not worth it. You can, the little I would use it, just buy what you need to cut or whatever, but, ah or you water jet it.
00:36:22
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:25
John S
But I wonder how they handle the not letting the part jump backward.
00:36:32
johngrimsmo
I don't know.
00:36:32
John S
It's almost like you want a one-way linear, you know, like a one-way bearing, you like a one-way feed forward linear rail.
00:36:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Speaking of old man dream shop, I think it was after I did this late night on the Torback Surface Grinder. I came back, came home.
00:36:50
johngrimsmo
It was late. It was like 1.30 when I got home. I just wanted to sit down with a little bowl of cereal and just watch YouTube for like 20 minutes. And this video came up from Topper Machine.
00:37:00
John S
Okay.
00:37:01
johngrimsmo
And it was him and an auction guy, like a machine tool auction guy. You definitely need to look this up. You don't have to watch the thing.
00:37:07
John S
OK.
00:37:07
johngrimsmo
um Topper machine. And they're basically walking through this old man who passed away his garage shop. And it has every tool imaginable in it times 10.
00:37:20
John S
Oh, wow.
00:37:21
johngrimsmo
um He's got a more jig grinder. He's got a bridge port that's clean. He's got a million watchmaker lathes. He was a jeweler.
00:37:28
John S
Whoa.
00:37:28
johngrimsmo
He was a watchmaker. He's got ah three pantograph machines. He's got like on and on and on and on every measuring tool ever imagined. He's got a beautiful hard engine, HV, FLV, whatever lathes.
00:37:40
John S
Oh, sick. it over Yeah, yeah.
00:37:41
johngrimsmo
He's got everything an old man would ever want. And he's got like four of everything. And it's it's absolute hoarder territory, but like like it's our...
00:37:48
John S
Holy cow. Yeah.
00:37:53
johngrimsmo
like
00:37:54
John S
My kind of hoarded.
00:37:54
johngrimsmo
my kind of order um like there's no way he ever touched most of the tools in there but he had everything and he was like hey he probably went to every auction he probably knew so many people like collected all this cool stuff and even the auctioneer was like this is a lot of work like to to do this justice for the for the family obviously to get them good money for it um it was really cool that so i i highly recommend you check that out and everybody listening everybody listening should uh
00:37:59
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:10
John S
yeah Yeah. Yeah. publish yeah
00:38:22
johngrimsmo
to just flip through it. Topper Machine on YouTube. um think it was Topper Machine. Let me make sure I get that right. Anyway, you'll find it um It was kind of weird but awesome at the same time.
00:38:30
John S
Yeah.
00:38:35
johngrimsmo
You're like, man, to walk through that place? That's got a lot of stuff that I know and would want. And then they're auctioning in various stages. Some of the stuff's still going up in September, I believe. Yeah.
00:38:45
John S
In the U S
00:38:46
johngrimsmo
I'm not sure where.
00:38:47
John S
ship
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
Minnesota? I can't remember.
00:38:49
John S
I should probably should probably stop asking questions. Uh,
00:38:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah, anyway, it was cool.
00:38:54
John S
okay. I had a, what I think was a pretty good win that going to film. i might even upload it as a YouTube short, which I've never even done, but, um,
00:39:02
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
3D Printing Challenges and Solutions
00:39:04
John S
The problem was printing a large part on the bamboo H2D or really on any eight bamboo. The most um The best way to get the most linear distance would be at a 45 degree angle on the bill plate, the hypotenuse on the X, y but then on also the hypotenuse on Z.
00:39:22
John S
So the part is sitting there at an angle.
00:39:22
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:39:24
John S
And the part I'm trying to print is the Johnny Five arm coverings.
00:39:29
johngrimsmo
okay
00:39:29
John S
So think about your forearm. I mean, they're about the same size as your human forearm and their the coverings are clamshells. So they're like your forearm cut in half. And it's too big for the bamboo, except if you orient it perfectly at that angle, so that it's maximizing the hypotenuse on all three axes, it fits.
00:39:48
John S
So I did this in the slicer, but it was really tricky to get it rotated and it just was not fun to do it. And then I was having some support issues because At the bottom of that part that's now tipped up 45 degrees, it's only contacting with a tiny amount.
00:40:03
John S
And even with brims added, it was just the supports weren't doing it correctly.
00:40:03
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:40:08
John S
I just learned before we hit record today, i need to go look that you, I believe can do the standard auto supports of which this obviously needs them because it this parts up at 45 degrees, but I want to do auto sports and I want to manually paint on some supports at that bottom corner.
00:40:24
John S
But um the The sort of aha moment that I think is a pretty cool idea was I thought, wait minute here, why am i fighting this? I popped the part into Fusion, I sketched the XY build, x I think it's 320 by 325 XY for a single nozzle, and then I offset a plane the Z height.
00:40:41
John S
So now i had a cube that represented the build volume of bamboo.
00:40:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:44
John S
And then I used the fusion move command, which is way more yeah parametric and controllable. I oriented the part exactly how I wanted it. And then I just parametrically added a CAD sketch of some feet that I'll just break off.
00:40:56
John S
It won't, they're basically visible anyways.
00:40:57
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:40:59
John S
um And that felt really nice because then you're just kind of were in control and you could adjust it as you need to it's actually, um it's an eight hour print that's 40 minutes in right now.
00:41:10
John S
um Working good though.
00:41:11
johngrimsmo
That's awesome. You could even, you know how the slicer, when it does supports, it leaves it however many millimeters apart from the surface. Like in Fusion, you could design your feet to the support feet to not have some gap between the part.
00:41:26
johngrimsmo
that make sense?
00:41:27
John S
No.
00:41:28
johngrimsmo
So when the part's printing over that support feet, it's not attached. It's not solid.
00:41:32
John S
Oh, okay. didn't have that. What were you saying in the beginning though, the support?
00:41:38
johngrimsmo
In the any slicer software, when it makes a support, there's a section to choose what your gap is between the support and the part, which I think in real life kind of isn't as accurate as you think it is.
00:41:49
John S
Okay.
00:41:50
johngrimsmo
But that that's the way it's not like fused melted plastic together kind of thing.
00:41:52
John S
To get, okay.
00:41:54
johngrimsmo
I feel like in Prusa slicer, that was a common thing. And I would mess with the supports to like, get them to not stick as hard.
00:42:01
John S
So yeah, it's funny you mentioned that and you DMed me that um I did the same. I printed the Renzetti blocks on Maker World out of i think, PETG.
00:42:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:42:09
John S
The support just came right off. Like I was done in like two two minutes, Sean.
00:42:12
johngrimsmo
What? Oh, mine, like, took me 20 minutes per block.
00:42:16
John S
Super clean.
00:42:16
johngrimsmo
The second block was faster, but I wonder if it's Apache.
00:42:18
John S
Yeah.
00:42:19
johngrimsmo
I just did PLA. um
00:42:22
John S
Now I wish I knew which I printed them They're sitting right there.
00:42:24
johngrimsmo
The supports that go inside all the holes and everything.
00:42:24
John S
The other thing was...
00:42:27
johngrimsmo
Like, yeah, mine were are kind of annoying.
00:42:27
John S
Yep. No, i I sort of had to like, okay, buckle up. This going a pain in the butt.
00:42:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah, right?
00:42:32
John S
And then I was like, oh, I'm done. This is easy.
00:42:34
johngrimsmo
I wonder if it's literally a dryness of filament kind of thing. Like, like ours is okay, but it's not, like, next level.
00:42:42
John S
that The other thing I'm loving about the H2D, which by the way, there's some things I really don't like about the workflows with it that at least maybe I just need to learn. But um having a role of PLA in the other nozzle means you could do a PLA interface layer on PETG prints for supports and they just fall.
00:42:57
johngrimsmo
Have you tried it?
00:42:58
John S
Oh yeah.
00:42:59
johngrimsmo
oh cool.
00:43:00
John S
It is like bueno.
00:43:02
johngrimsmo
Did you do that in this case?
00:43:04
John S
I didn't today for this big part for no reason. There's no lack of confidence. i just I just thought I'm just going to keep this as simple as I possibly can with a few variables on an eight-hour print. The supports, I'm not worried about getting off here either.
00:43:18
johngrimsmo
But in the Renzetti block print, did you do that PLA support?
00:43:21
John S
I'm sorry. Forgive me. talking about the Johnny Five Arm. ah No, the Ranzetti block, I did not do that.
00:43:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Interesting.
00:43:25
John S
should I should have.
00:43:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that would've been great. um
00:43:28
John S
Oh, actually, no, because I printed those at home on my Carbon X1 because the RHD was until last week broken and down.
00:43:29
johngrimsmo
yes
00:43:35
John S
It's back up now. After that stupid hot PPS CF film that kerfuffled it, ruined the printer.
00:43:43
johngrimsmo
I didn't hear this.
00:43:45
John S
I printed a test part for...
00:43:46
johngrimsmo
i know you were excited about it.
00:43:48
John S
And it, oh, this is really stinks. I used bamboo filament, bamboo settings, ah did a small test part of the part, it worked fine. And the big part was gonna be 20 hour print. Like two hours into it, I got home, I just wasn't, it was gonna be 24 hour print. So it wasn't like I could babysit the whole thing anyways.
00:44:04
John S
And it was going fine. I did all my homework to sort of test stuff out, it ran fine, went home and it didn't, stopped the printer but it started to blob up and it blobs up a giant like golf ball size blob around the nozzle which then hardened and this is ppscf is a hundred and twenty hundred dollars a roll of this filament and um i actually
00:44:20
johngrimsmo
Oh.
00:44:28
John S
well sounds irresponsible i was did it the night before i was leaving for spring break with the kids so alex came in the next day and it eventually did stop but not for again like an hour and it ruined the whole left nozzle circuit board like all these thermistors were stuck in there he had to drill it just to get to the screws unscrew stuff bamboo support was pretty good about sending replacement parts under warranty at no charge but it still took It took two weeks to get the first parts.
00:44:53
John S
We did those and then we realized it broke a board behind it and it took another 10 days. So um I was a little bit disappointed in the experience, to be to be honest.
00:44:58
johngrimsmo
oof yeah huh
00:45:02
John S
We've pretty much fair share of parts and it shouldn't, the bamboo ecosystem is such that it shouldn't, you know, it should fail quicker on on that. It's kind of a failure.
00:45:11
johngrimsmo
so there's it's spaghetti detection but you want golf ball detection
00:45:12
John S
There's a Reddit post, they're good.
00:45:17
John S
Yeah, sorry, i can't speak more articulately about this. There was a Reddit post specifically speaking about the high temp filaments on the H2D and other people out of this issue where for whatever reason, something is not tripping, where it's not recognizing us a sensor's not working correctly. So hopefully they get that fixed.
00:45:31
johngrimsmo
yeah interesting
00:45:38
johngrimsmo
okay um I got some notes for next week but last thing this week is uh Blade Show is coming up
00:45:39
John S
Okay.
Blade Show Preparation and Excitement
00:45:46
John S
Oh my gosh, already? That seems crazy.
00:45:48
johngrimsmo
yep it is three weeks three weeks today is when we leave we are not ready but we're excited yeah well 100% we'll be ready
00:45:53
John S
Oh, wow.
00:45:55
John S
Uh-oh. You will be.
00:46:00
johngrimsmo
Yep. So anybody, i and know some of the podcast listeners, come say hi at the show.
00:46:01
John S
Good.
00:46:04
johngrimsmo
So um I always appreciate that. um Because there's when somebody comes up, I never know if they're a knife guy or a machine guy. And I have to like tease it out of them.
00:46:12
John S
Oh, that's funny.
00:46:12
johngrimsmo
You know, because people know me for both or either sometimes. And yeah, I love meeting machinist friends.
00:46:16
John S
Yeah.
00:46:19
johngrimsmo
Like, it's really cool.
00:46:21
John S
Good. That's awesome.
00:46:22
johngrimsmo
I will see you guys there.
00:46:25
John S
Atlanta, right?
00:46:26
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:46:26
John S
Sweet. Good.
00:46:30
John S
Cool. Anything else?
00:46:33
johngrimsmo
That's all I got, man. and
00:46:34
John S
Sweet. Awesome. Have a good day.
00:46:35
johngrimsmo
Yeah, you do, bud. Okay.
00:46:36
John S
I'll see Bye.